DANGER! Gun question .....
SteveB
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
Steve
Ed Huntress
"SteveB" <old...@depends.com> wrote in message
news:9d1bo6-...@news.infowest.com...
> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
> Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>
> Steve
'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.
As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will really
reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a 55-pound
javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he got no more than 5
feet before dropping dead.
Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages may have
that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run them well over
50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot .22/250s they were
wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was. <g> They're probably
tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge. They had a reputation for
requiring experimenting with handloads to get good accuracy, a lot like the
.220 Swift.
--
Ed Huntress
Snag
> "SteveB" <old...@depends.com> wrote in message
> news:9d1bo6-...@news.infowest.com...
>> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
>> 12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>>
>> Steve
>
> 'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
> recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.
Had a couple myself . The Rem 788 semi-heavy was the best ...
>
> As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will
> really reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a
> 55-pound javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he
> got no more than 5 feet before dropping dead.
Excellent accuracy with the right handload - which ain't necessarily the
hottest one . Useta pot rockchucks at 300+ yards ... pretty gory .
>
> Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages
> may have that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run
> them well over 50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot
> .22/250s they were wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was.
> <g> They're probably tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge.
> They had a reputation for requiring experimenting with handloads to
> get good accuracy, a lot like the .220 Swift.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
What he said . I found that a 52-53 match hp gave about the best accuracy
with moderate (3400-3700) velocities . Moderate loads are also a lot easier
on barrel throats ...
--
Snag
Wish I still had one !
Larry Jaques
<old...@depends.com> scrawled the following:
>For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
>Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
Having just read an article about them (can't find the URL or I'd have
linked it), I'm sweeter on the .223.
Some other articles:
http://www.clcweb.net/Hunting/Varmints/Varmintguns/varmintguns.htm
http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f31/22-250-varmint-rifle-24439/
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Ignoramus16571
> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
> Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
That seems to be the standard cartridge for that sort of stuff.
i
Joe Pfeiffer
> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
> Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
Never shot one (either the coyote or the cartridge) but that cartridge
has a great reputation in that application.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
Bob La Londe
> Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>
> Steve
I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle. I
did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several years,
and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all the
callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where you
might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
the barrel) and action and float the barrel.
I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero it
in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job of
dropping them if I could hit them.
Joe Pfeiffer
I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.
Bob La Londe
news:1b1vm47...@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net...
> "Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> writes:
>
>> "SteveB" <old...@depends.com> wrote in message
>> news:9d1bo6-...@news.infowest.com...
>>> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
>>> 12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
>> the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
>> rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine
>> for several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
>> choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
>> circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
>> the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed
>> the chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the
>> barrel.
>>
>> I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
>> zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
>> good job of dropping them if I could hit them.
>>
> I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.
This might help you. Next time you try to sight it in, take one shot. Make
an adjustment and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Make your next shot, and
repeat. The mini guys I know now say that's the only realistic way to site
one in. Because of the way its assembled after 2-3 shots in rapid
succession the barrel heats up enough to distort in its mounting. That's
why floating the barrel in some guns improves their consistency as they heat
up. Expansion is more uniform, and the stock isn't dragging on it, changing
the heat coefficient of one side of the barrel, or pushing the barrel away
as it expands.
I have talked to a couple different guys who say they sight their guns in
this way, and they can consistently get 2 shots off quickly in the field
with accuracy. They say that it spray bullets worse than a runaway fire
house if they try to drop a whole magazine rapidly though.
I am not convinced. I didn't know all that stuff back when I had mine, but
I have to say no matter what I did do with it I was never happy with how it
performed. Still its worth a try.
kc7cc
> "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
> ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
> -- Thomas Jefferson
______________________________________________
I thought Tom was smatter than that ...
Ill translate ...
Community ethics do not allow anyone to even comercialize .
You cant act as if you are a businessman , or agent .
They wont even speak to you !
If you give the impression you are a professional ,
Doctor,Lawyer saleman , they will cut you out of
all dealings and purchases . Talk quality and utility
or they will drop you . Of Course there is no money .
its all electronic , instant debit .
You never talk about markup , it makes ppl nervous .
They buy in large quantities for the value , there are no Walmarts ,
No contracts , no financing , no "professionals" ,
only inventors and producers .
Its perfection in humans . If you cant understand this , you are
not producing .
To not produce , is a bus ride to Guatemala .
You cant keep your land/house , if you cant compete .
There is no middle class , only the competitive and those
who made a tiny mistake .
Thats why i get excited about the Jap engines . You can
for the first time , create a 1400 lb plane with 300 reliable
HP for under $20,000 .
You could not MAKE the engine for $100,000.
Its really that good . Yamaha tests these on a dyno for hours
at peak HP over 160 .
I invent ( No , Im NOT Hewlet Packard) , ever wonder how to
improve the cheap , centrifugal clutch ( seen on Go-Carts ) .
common drum and shoes with weights to help cent' force .
Control ( servo) Disc can apply the shoes ,
by a slight push on one side ..or
pull shoes off the drum ( even at hi speed ) by acting like
a disc brake .
All control on load side . .
, so cent' force against the engine drum is controlled by
load side / load speed , not engine speed.
Thus you can keep engine speed high and controlled .
Simply modulate the load .
Old method , trys to control engine speed to "control"
engagement . That dont work !
Control disc has many options .
Push it in ( natch on a thrust bearing) and load is started ,
push little to cog load a bit .
( centrifugal shoes are too slow to "stick" or lock up )
To disengage a centrifugal clutch , ya need force to pull the
shoes away from drum . Control disc has lots of power .
Buerste
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4ab2dfed$0$31257$607e...@cv.net...
ever seen! Too bad it was such a pain to fireform brass for it and load
cartridges. That's when I learned of "Cream of Wheat" as a loading
component. If I can ever justify another rifle of that sort it would be a
.220 Swift!
Buerste
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:eet5b513bmc8rkqci...@4ax.com...
I've got a Mini-14 for sale if you're looking.
Buerste
"Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> wrote in message
news:h8v412$b0e$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box. What
was the issue with yours?
Pete Keillor
wrote:
Mine shot great when I was younger and could see better. It's pre
ranch rifle, so I haven't mounted a scope. The B-Square mount would
interfere with my brass catcher, but maybe I'll try one anyway.
Pete Keillor
Ignoramus6211
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.
i
Ed Huntress
"Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:HZGsm.34900$nP6....@newsfe25.iad...
Not having a place to shoot varmint rifles anymore, I haven't kept up for
decades. When I was shooting Swifts and .22/250s (1961 - 1964, shooting two
or three times a week through the spring and summer), both cartridges had a
rep for being *very* sensitive to small increases in powder charge. And
since they were wildcats, a lot of them were built on older actions, which
could be challenged by the pressures. Thus, the common use of the
vault-strength Savage 110 (which was based on the equally vault-strong
Enfield) and the modification of Springfield '03s, with the bolt-face
recess. I would hope that modern powders have tamed them both. I was just
learning handloading at that time and I wasn't allowed to load either one of
them.
However, I have to say that real wildcat freaks (I was one, in spades) liked
the fact that they were a little wild and crazy. The velocities of both
were, in those days, astonishing. There were hotter wildcats (.22/06, etc.)
but they were freaks and largely unsuccessful. But the Swift and the
Savage-derived .22/250 were both very successful. Unless you were shooting
in a crosswind, their accuracy out at ranges of 300+ yards was pretty
amazing, to me.
I was in my early teens then and the father of my closest friend was a
well-off medical doctor who had the biggest collection of wildcat rifles I
ever saw. The three of us would go out hunting chucks or crows with a couple
of shorter-range guns (he had a K-Hornet and a .218 Bee); a .222, which was
the wunderkind for accuracy out to a little over 200 yards; a .22/250 or the
Swift; and a .25/06 (also a wildcat at that time), built on a Springfield
and with set triggers. Sometimes he'd bring a .244 Remington, an original
with the 1:12 twist (now called 6 mm and with a 1:9 twist, and a long story)
which was a great varmint gun with the right, very light, bullets. And he
had an early .222 Magnum, which was the predecessor to the .223. A couple of
those were factory cartridges but there were other wildcats in his
collection, too, including a .17 caliber thing and a .20 caliber thing,
neither of which I ever got to shoot.
All of that turned me into a wildcat fanatic but I never owned one of those
guns myself. Around 20 years ago a friend found a (new) gun in California
that I had been searching for all over the country: a Browning 1885 (the
same gun as a Winchester Hi-Wall) in .223. I was flush then and I went for
it, and got a Unertl 12X Varminter scope for it. At that time in NJ you
could hunt chucks with a centerfire rifle, but only on private property. A
friend of mine owned a farm in the western part of the state and I had a lot
of fun with it and killed some groundhogs while I was at it. My plan was to
eventually re-chamber it for .22/250. I used that gun in Arizona, for
javelina, and it was just about perfect in my mind. I put a bullet through
the heart of one with it at a pretty good range, which overcame my "Eastern
tenderfoot" status with the Arizona old-timers I was hunting with. <g>
Ah, those days are gone. My friend sold his farm, one of my legs partly gave
out and my days of climbing mesas in AZ were over, and the gun languished
here for ten years. So I sold it; it was a pretty prized number and I got
several times what I paid for it. Too bad. Deep down, I still love those hot
.22s, especially the wilder wildcats.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
news:rPidnWAW-LuG4C7X...@giganews.com...
What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. <g> Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.
--
Ed Huntress
Bob La Londe
It sprayed bullets like a runaway fire hose. Found out it's the design
because the barrel is trapped. Could done better if I had known more about
rifles back then. See my other reply about sighting one in.
Bob La Londe
Might try barking them with it. Seems like to much power though. I had
read about guys barking squirrels with muzzle loaders so I did some
experimenting with my .45 Kentucky rifle many years ago. With slightly less
powder than a pyramid load and a round ball it worked pretty darn good.
Stunned them good, and didn't go ricocheting through the trees. Not sure
how well that small bullet would do at throwing up enough bark to stun them,
but might be worth trying once or twice.
Ignoramus6211
I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.
As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).
I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
chickens.
That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
(full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.
i
Ed Huntress
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4ab38f68$0$5003$607e...@cv.net...
>>
>> "Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:rPidnWAW-LuG4C7X...@giganews.com...
>>>I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
>>> are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
>>> and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
>>> somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
>>> a regular .22.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
>> short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
>> area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. <g>
>> Personally, I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew
>> someone who used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of
>> course.
>
> Might try barking them with it. Seems like to much power though.
I don't think it has enough oomph for barking. That's an iffy thing, anyway.
I tried it once with my .45 H&R muzzleloader and I broke the branch right
off the tree, in front of the squirrel, who really looked confused but was
totally unharmed. <g>
> I had read about guys barking squirrels with muzzle loaders so I did some
> experimenting with my .45 Kentucky rifle many years ago. With slightly
> less powder than a pyramid load and a round ball it worked pretty darn
> good. Stunned them good, and didn't go ricocheting through the trees. Not
> sure how well that small bullet would do at throwing up enough bark to
> stun them, but might be worth trying once or twice.
Jeez, I should have read ahead. Well, you're the second person I've heard
from who got it to work. I always thought there are more cases like mine,
but who knows. I've only tried it once.
The .22 Hornet will drive tacks out to 125 yards, and it's a decent
groundhog gun out to 150 or a little more, if you're used to the ballistics.
At normal squirrel-hunting ranges you should be able to make a head shot
nearly every time.
The K-Hornet is another matter; it gets another 25 - 50 yards. It's a
wildcat cartridge based on a fire-formed Hornet, with squared shoulders.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
> On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:rPidnWAW-LuG4C7X...@giganews.com...
>>>I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
>>> are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
>>> and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
>>> somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
>>> a regular .22.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
>> short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
>> area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. <g>
>> Personally,
>> I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
>> used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.
>
> I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.
Hmm. 'Don't know that one. Maybe a Model 54 or Model 70? What kind of action
is it?
>
> As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
> rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
> very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
> immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).
Sometimes you're hunting where the squirrels have been shot at, and it's
hard to get within 60 or 70 yards of them. That's when a Hornet would be
nice. However, you'd better be one heck of a good shot to head-shoot a
squirrel at 70 yards or more. You need at least a tree to rest against.
The bullet carries pretty far when you shoot up on an angle like that. I
don't know specifically what the carry distance is for a Hornet, but it must
be close to two miles. Where I hunt, and even in most states with average
population density, that would be dangerous.
>
> I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
> chickens.
<g> I think I posted a recipe for Brunswick Stew here once upon a time. The
original is made with squirrel.
>
> That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
> (full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.
>
> i
<sigh> In NJ, there are hardly any places you can legally shoot one.
--
Ed Huntress
Ignoramus6211
>
> "Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5-WdnUt5K8fkBS7X...@giganews.com...
>> On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:rPidnWAW-LuG4C7X...@giganews.com...
>>>>I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
>>>> are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
>>>> and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
>>>> somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
>>>> a regular .22.
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>>> What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
>>> short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
>>> area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. <g>
>>> Personally,
>>> I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
>>> used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.
>>
>> I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.
>
> Hmm. 'Don't know that one. Maybe a Model 54 or Model 70? What kind of action
> is it?
I think that it is Model 70.
>>
>> As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
>> rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
>> very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
>> immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).
>
> Sometimes you're hunting where the squirrels have been shot at, and it's
> hard to get within 60 or 70 yards of them. That's when a Hornet would be
> nice. However, you'd better be one heck of a good shot to head-shoot a
> squirrel at 70 yards or more. You need at least a tree to rest against.
>
> The bullet carries pretty far when you shoot up on an angle like that. I
> don't know specifically what the carry distance is for a Hornet, but it must
> be close to two miles. Where I hunt, and even in most states with average
> population density, that would be dangerous.
I agree. I would be OK with a .22 for this application, but nothing
beyond.
>>
>> I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
>> chickens.
>
><g> I think I posted a recipe for Brunswick Stew here once upon a time. The
> original is made with squirrel.
>
>>
>> That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
>> (full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.
>>
>> i
>
><sigh> In NJ, there are hardly any places you can legally shoot one.
Fortunately, they are relatively quiet rifles.
i
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
Well, pard', you'd better find out about that gun before disposing of it, if
you intend to do that. If it's an "old series" (pre-'64) rifle in top
condition, it's worth more than a few bucks. Furthermore, I have no idea of
the numbers produced but an old-series Model 70 in .22 Hornet *has* to be a
fairly rare number. I can't imagine that it was very popular, ever.
--
Ed Huntress
Larry Jaques
<bue...@wowway.com> scrawled the following:
AC-556, for the errant flock of varmints? <evil grinne>
Larry Jaques
<bue...@wowway.com> scrawled the following:
>
How does one dot a capital I, Tawmmy?
Joe Pfeiffer
What they're describing is the only way to get the accuracy up to
"lousy" -- probably a 3 inch circle at 100 yards with that sort of
cooling-off between shots. Shoot at all quickly, and the shots walk on
up the paper (I think it goes up and to the right, though I don't
remember for sure) until after a half dozen it's off the paper
completely. Before somebody misinterprets, no I don't have some sort of
full-auto conversion; I am talking about 'take a shot, aim again, take
another shot...
Steve W.
Which series is it?
I currently have an early ranch and a 180 series.
Always liked the mini design. They are a very reliable gun and great for
most uses. Not a tack driver (best group I have ever had was a 5 shot
3/4" at 100 yards) but they were never meant to be.
--
Steve W.
Pete Keillor
Wow! I'm keeping mine. It shoots way better than that, even hot. It
must be rare as hell.
Pete Keillor
Rich Grise
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:54:58 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
>>news:h8v412$b0e$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "SteveB" <old...@depends.com> wrote in message
>>> news:9d1bo6-...@news.infowest.com...
>>>> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
>>>> 12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>>>
>>> the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
>>> rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for
>>> several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
>>> choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
>>> circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
>>> the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the
>>> chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the barrel.
>>>
>>> I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
>>> zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
>>> good job of dropping them if I could hit them.
>>
>>I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box.
>>What was the issue with yours?
>
> How does one dot a capital I, Tawmmy?
You know you're a good shooter when you can dot your 't's while crossing
your 'i's. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Ignoramus6211
I will check indeed. I think that I will be better with a .22 LR
instead of this one -- or maybe in addition to.
i
Bob La Londe
news:p2i7b5dqdbg2bu1tt...@4ax.com...
I've heard some people like you say they like theirs and plenty like myself
who could never do very well with theirs. Most of the time I only hear
people tell how good "theirs" is when somebody tells about what a horrible
experience they had with their own. They can't all suck or they wouldn't
keep selling them. I traded mine for a computer hard drive about 16-17
years ago.
Bob La Londe
At "normal" squirrel hunting ranges you should be able to drop them with any
decent pellet gun from when I was a kid. With today's 1000 fps + spring
piston guns it's a gimme. I killed plenty of ground squirrels and gophers
for the 50� bounty with my old Daisy 880 just using regular old BBs. 10
pumps and let fly. If you was rich enough to have an actual .22 you was the
king of bounty hunting. In fact I paid for my first .22 rifle shooting
gophers. Was a lot faster than trapping them and a lot more fun.
Bob La Londe
"Ignoramus6211" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6211.invalid> wrote in message
news:5-WdnUt5K8fkBS7X...@giganews.com...
> I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
> chickens.
And chicken hunting is a lot more fun and challenging with the farmer
shooting back at you.
Don Foreman
wrote:
>For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
>Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>
>Steve
The Savage 12's are good rifles and good value. You might also
consider the CZ550, either American or Varmint. I recently examined
some barrels with a borescope. The several CZ barrels I looked at
compared favorably with custom match-grade barrels, and they were
considerably better than the Savage barrels I examined. The CZ's are
tackdrivers right out of the box. That said, the two Savage 12's in
.22-250 (mine and another guy's) I know about shoot very acceptably
indeed.
Some coyote hunters have told me that they like the Barnes Varmint
Grenade bullets because they do less pelt damage. No exit hole, just
jellied coyote within. I get best accuracy from my 12 in .22-250
with 55 grain Nosler BT's and Hornady V-Max though the VG's would
certainly be accurate enough for coyote out to 500 yards or so.
Buerste
The wind sure plays havoc with those little projectiles. I do shoot .223s
now a days but don't even try for sub-minute. My Mini-14s aren't built for
that.
Buerste
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h90evk$cob$1...@aioe.org...
I bought it used in the early '80s, it has no manual bolt hold open.
Wes
>I've heard some people like you say they like theirs and plenty like myself
>who could never do very well with theirs. Most of the time I only hear
>people tell how good "theirs" is when somebody tells about what a horrible
>experience they had with their own. They can't all suck or they wouldn't
>keep selling them. I traded mine for a computer hard drive about 16-17
>years ago.
Lever action rifles sell well too. Not a type of rifle that is intrinsically capable of
shooting ragged one hole groups at 100 yards. It all boils down to the ability and needs
of the shooter.
Minute of whitetail is all some hunters care about.
Wes
Rich Grise
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>
>> groundhog gun out to 150 or a little more, if you're used to the
>> ballistics. At normal squirrel-hunting ranges you should be able to make
>> a head shot nearly every time.
>
> At "normal" squirrel hunting ranges you should be able to drop them with
> any decent pellet gun from when I was a kid. With today's 1000 fps +
> spring piston guns it's a gimme. I killed plenty of ground squirrels and
> gophers for the 50� bounty with my old Daisy 880 just using regular old
> BBs. 10 pumps and let fly. If you was rich enough to have an actual .22
> you was the king of bounty hunting. In fact I paid for my first .22 rifle
> shooting gophers. Was a lot faster than trapping them and a lot more fun.
Once, when I was very young (<10 YO), I was visiting the neighbors, and I
saw the dad, with his .22, take two squirrels out of trees, plus a rabbit
running through the brush. I mean, it was on the RUN! and he got it in
two shots.
I was amazed. I also watched him skin them and gut them, but they didn't
invite me for dinner. )-;
Cheers!
Rich
Ed Huntress
That's one of the challenges with high-velocity .22 centerfires. Some of
them are capable of amazing accuracy out to around 300 yards or even more,
but even a slight breeze can really move those bullets around. I've never
shot the .17s or .20s but they're even trickier. And the smaller bullets
have dog-leg type trajectories, which makes it doubly challenging to shoot
them at the longer ranges. All of that is much of what makes it interesting.
If it was just a matter of making the gun shoot straight and having a good
sandbag, shooting 'chucks would be much less interesting. It's a multi-facet
game.
FWIW, which is about nothing <g>, there's no gun I can think of that
interests me less than a semiauto .22 centerfire with mediocre accuracy.
It's the worst of all worlds unless you have a very specific use for it, and
those uses interest me even less than the guns.
--
Ed Huntress
SteveB
"Rich Grise" <rich...@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.09.19....@example.net...
I am tempted to try some of the rock squirrels I get around here. I lived
in Texas and Louisiana, and these critters are much bigger! I did eat them
there, and may try these, as my neighbor has shot 100 this year. It's a
friggin war around here. They are brazen, and a organized gang will come in
and strip fruit trees in a night. They are jumpy, too, and when they see a
human, it's sayonara time. Gonna build a stand next to my canyon, and see
if I can get some. Will build another stand up on my property, where we
have lots of coyotes. We get them fifty feet from the house, necessitating
keeping all cats and dogs in after dusk or thereabouts. I've seen them in
broad daylight in the front yard. Need to go see what the bounty is on
coyotes. Was $35. At that rate, I could make a few bucks!
Steve
SteveB
We currently have a crop of hand fed fat cottontails. Fed Purina Rabbit
chow, we have watched these little furballs become adults. I don't like
harvesting things that come in the yard, but I surely get tempted by these
large fat cottontails. I won't even talk about the quail. I'm darn sure
going to try the next large squirrel, and weigh it to see if it is larger
than its Texas and Louisiana cousins.
Steve
Snag
> In <gM3tm.20299$3D4....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com>, on Sat, 19 Sep
> 2009 08:04:27 -0400, Wes, clu...@lycos.com wrote:
>
>> Minute of whitetail is all some hunters care about.
>
>
> You should see the shot that got away. <sigh>
>
> --
> ??
Those look more like muleys than whitetails . Where was that pic taken ?
--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF
Wes
>> Minute of whitetail is all some hunters care about.
>
>http://wizard.dyndns.org/2009.09.17-deer.cs.jpg
>
> You should see the shot that got away. <sigh>
>
Should have spent more time aiming rifle than pointing camera ;)
BTW, what kind of deer are those? Are those the gay looking prancing things I saw
bicycling though Texas?
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
SnA Higgins
Once, in Africa, I shot an elephant in my pajamas.
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:eIxtm.31848$we1....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
>Deer on bicycles? In loud clothing and high heeled shoes?
>
>Once, in Africa, I shot an elephant in my pajamas.
How did the elephant get in your pajamas?
Wes
>How did the elephant get in your pajamas?
I've woke up with an elephant in my pj's but that was before the BP medication. :(
Wes
jmart...@aol.com
> BTW, what kind of deer are those? Are those the gay looking prancing things I saw
> bicycling though Texas?
>
> Wes
> --
Sorry, Wes, but I have to ask - were they prancing or bicycling? I've
tried to imagine a deer prancing and bicycling, but it just won't come
to me.
John Martin
RBnDFW
> Steve Ackman <st...@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> wrote:
>
>>> Minute of whitetail is all some hunters care about.
>> http://wizard.dyndns.org/2009.09.17-deer.cs.jpg
>>
>> You should see the shot that got away. <sigh>
>>
>
> Should have spent more time aiming rifle than pointing camera ;)
>
> BTW, what kind of deer are those? Are those the gay looking prancing things I saw
> bicycling though Texas?
If you were on Lower Greenville Ave in Dallas, then no, those were a
different breed of cat!
RBnDFW
> FWIW, which is about nothing <g>, there's no gun I can think of that
> interests me less than a semiauto .22 centerfire with mediocre accuracy.
> It's the worst of all worlds unless you have a very specific use for it, and
> those uses interest me even less than the guns.
Who was it said "Only accurate rifles are interesting" ?
Ed Huntress
"RBnDFW" <burkh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h98i9o$po6$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
Da' Colonel. And I agree. (And I like Whelen straps, too.)
--
Ed Huntress
Rich Grise
People who like to be able to hit their target consistently?
Cheers!
Rich
Phred
scribed:
>"SteveB" <old...@depends.com> wrote in message
>news:9d1bo6-...@news.infowest.com...
>> For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
>> Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>>
>> Steve
>
>I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
>end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle. I
>did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several years,
>and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all the
>callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where you
>might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
>according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
>the barrel) and action and float the barrel.
>
>I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero it
>in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job of
>dropping them if I could hit them.
1912 Stevens .22 Comp rifle. 5 round clip, bolt action. Pretty sure it
takes .22 LR. It is scoped out and ready for deployment. The most
accurate rifle I have ever had. Heavy MF though.
Phred
jj
>For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
>Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
>Steve
I ended up with a Ruger 77 in .308 that came stock with 2 forearm
swivels and a Harris bipod that attaches to one of them.
Main reason I went with .308 - two of em, I didn't want a zillion
calibers in the house and .308 ammo was cheaper than .22-250.
If I reloaded I probably would have swayed - I might start reloading
in a few years.
BTW I am amused that RCM is the new rec.guns.
Also, I would like to ask roughly what would be the maximum varmit
range for "production" ammo in .223 and .22-250?
jj, who just realized he does not have a bolt action .223
Ed Huntress
"jj" <jayj...@blarf-fake-not-real.com> wrote in message
news:4abf37be...@news.flex.com...
That's a question that could generate a lot of discussion. Notice that no
one has dipped his toe into it yet.
I'm not going to try to answer it in any depth but you may be able to answer
it for yourself, to your own satisfaction. Take a look at these links,
particularly the first two. Chuck Hawk's description of the terms is
succinct and excellent:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/223_remington.html
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October01.htm
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reference/pdf/Twist%20Tables_Rifle.pdf
Also, Remington has some good calculators and you can get their ballistics
software to help you further.
Hawk's "maximum point-blank range" calculations for those cartridges, and
for other varmint cartridges, are based on +/- 1.5", rather than the 3.0"
used for deer rifles. This makes sense.
However, there are two things that aren't discussed here. Guns for varmint
cartridges are made in a wide range of twist rates (see the link above that
lists them), and a slow twist (1:12, say) versus a fast twist (1:7) will
limit the bullet weights you can shoot in that gun. And if you have a gun
that's really made for shooting light varmint bullets (slow twist), two
other factors come into play: First, the bullets shoot flat until you reach
their practical range, at which point they fall off quickly. And second,
when those bullets lose velocity they also lose accuracy. They're spinning
too slowly out at their maximum range.
So there are several factors that influence the answer to your question. If
you're satisfied with production ammo and MPBR, the ballistics described in
those tables will give you a good idea of what you're getting into. If you
get the varmint-rifle bug and start fooling around with different bullets,
and choosing your rifle near the ends of the twist-rate range, you'll find,
if you stay near the light-bullet end, that the real practical range for
*your* rifle can be different than those MPBR figures indicate. And with
light bullets in a real varmint gun, the range limit starts looking like a
brick wall.
Have fun. If you get bitten by the varmint-gun bug, don't say no one warned
you. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Rich Grise
>
> Have fun. If you get bitten by the varmint-gun bug, don't say no one
> warned you. d8-)
When you take down a coyote, is there any edible meat?
Thanks,
Rich
Ed Huntress
There may be, but it's not on the coyote. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Gerald Miller
wrote:
Depends on what he ate last and how long ago.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
SteveB
I have currently made investigation, and there is a $20 bounty in my state
for the coyote's ears. I am researching how much furriers pay for hides.
Steve
Gunner Asch
Lever guns may...or may not sell well in the West. Shrug. Longer range
bolt guns are far far more popular.
Want a Poor Mans varmint lever gun? Marlin 3030 with a 125gr bullet.
Virtually everyone Ive ever fired would shoot well under .6" for 5
rounds, with a bit of tinkering with the loadings.
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Gunner Asch
Townsend Whelen
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Head shots ONLY. Doesnt mess up the ears much, and bounty doesnt care.
Hides with holes in them dont pay well.
Stormin Mormon
caliber. So, you can use military ball ammo when the
commercial stuff runs dry. Mil spec stuff might be cheaper
for paper punching when you don't need expansion.
Other than that, I'd guess it's a good caliber.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"SteveB" <old...@depends.com> wrote in message
news:9d1bo6-...@news.infowest.com...
Bob La Londe
news:qiv0c5tn99b6lmbm1...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:40:19 -0600, "SteveB" <old...@depends.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Rich Grise" <rich...@example.net> wrote in message
>>news:pan.2009.09.22....@example.net...
>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:24:26 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have fun. If you get bitten by the varmint-gun bug, don't say no one
>>>> warned you. d8-)
>>>
>>> When you take down a coyote, is there any edible meat?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rich
>>
>>I have currently made investigation, and there is a $20 bounty in my state
>>for the coyote's ears. I am researching how much furriers pay for hides.
>>
>>Steve
>>
> Head shots ONLY. Doesnt mess up the ears much, and bounty doesnt care.
> Hides with holes in them dont pay well.
>
>
Back when I ran trap lines I dispatched the more dangerous animals with a
.22 CB short to the brain case. Quick kill, no exit wound, small hole, and
on most hides only took 1 stitch to look good on the stretcher. For the few
I shot on the run it was usually at medium range with BB shot out of a
shotgun. You could hardly even see the holes. Never had a good long range
gun back then. Most of the callers favor a 22-250, but I couldn't afford
one when I was living off my trap line. The reason I used a shotgun was
because I carried one all the time while running my lines to shoot rabbits,
and birds in season. Kept 1 round of BB shot in the chamber for varmints.
Amazing how fast I could jack that out and pop a rabbit on the run. I
discovered though that most desert bunnies pause when they get the edge of a
bush between you and them. Gives you nearly an extra 1/2 second of shooting
time.
Steve B
"Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> wrote in message
news:hjn8ga$bf8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
We got a BUNCH of coyotes around here. I need to check into this.
Steve XXtreme SW Utah
Gerald Miller
wrote:
One deer season, Dad decided that my W-94, 30-30 was lighter to carry
than his .303 Savage. On following a mink track to a beaver dam, he
signaled me to whistle and, thinking that the shorter barrel would
shoot high at close range, aimed slightly lower. I had a 2" cut to sew
up between the mink's ears but we still got $17 for the pelt.
Next day, I took a short side trip without my rifle. Standing on a
rock at the head of a small marsh, I stopped an 8 point Buck five
times while he crossed the marsh within 100 yards of me, by the fourth
time I had to yell at him to stop. It must have taken him five minutes
to get across.
I still have the 2 pound axes we used to carry, and use them quite
often when bundling brush for pickup by the city.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
Gunner Asch
A 3030 with a 110gr cast bullet works pretty well on most coyotes as
well.
So does a 38/357 with a hollow based wadcutter loaded backwards. Thats
what I used for finishing shots when I was tending a guys trotline for a
few years. Load it backwards..about 500 FPS and shoot em in the side of
the head. Doesnt come out the other side and drops em like a rock.
Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.