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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
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Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 2:24:45 AM9/10/11
to
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.
I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.
If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.
So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".
Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.
Proposed Solution:
A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.
A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg
I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.
But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?
Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?
Thanks all,
Richard
open to the larger group as well.
I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.
If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.
So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".
Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.
Proposed Solution:
A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.
A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg
I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.
But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?
Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?
Thanks all,
Richard
Bill
Sep 10, 2011, 2:32:11 AM9/10/11
to
have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we
employ equations first to determine feasability
Why are people so cruel
Sep 10, 2011, 3:48:44 AM9/10/11
to
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DuKdnclDpdQon_bT...@earthlink.com...
Biggest problem with any non a/c solution is the amount
of humidity produced by other cooling methods - which
usually ends up with hot damp(er) air rather than cold dry
air.
Robert Roland
Sep 10, 2011, 5:10:32 AM9/10/11
to
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.
--
RoRo
wrote:
>I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.
--
RoRo
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 5:36:58 AM9/10/11
to
Ok, show and tell!
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 5:38:19 AM9/10/11
to
Water temp was about 87.
Gunner Asch
Sep 10, 2011, 6:56:22 AM9/10/11
to
--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".
Pete Keillor
Sep 10, 2011, 7:56:14 AM9/10/11
to
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
wrote:
If he's on the water and needs a/c, probably. As a matter of fact,
he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's
per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas
coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of
outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have
to dry it once.
Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no
outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks
are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting,
I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain!
Pete Keillor
Message has been deleted
Karl Townsend
Sep 10, 2011, 8:58:10 AM9/10/11
to
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:36:58 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
wrote:
Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
40btu per pound.
That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
do the weekend.
maybe buy ten batteries.
Karl
Karl Townsend
Sep 10, 2011, 9:07:13 AM9/10/11
to
>>Ok, show and tell!
>
>Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
>better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
>9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
>40btu per pound.
>
>That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
>25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
>better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
>approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
>do the weekend.
>
>maybe buy ten batteries.
>
>Karl
>
>
per pound. or twenty pounds an hour to equal that 5000 BTU ac. You'd
only need 1000 lbs. to do the weekend.
Stormin Mormon
Sep 10, 2011, 9:15:15 AM9/10/11
to
Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
(chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
(chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DuKdnclDpdQon_bT...@earthlink.com...
Stormin Mormon
Sep 10, 2011, 9:16:08 AM9/10/11
to
That was also my thought -- dry ice doesn't absorb much BTU.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:26qdnfTMi9dcsvbT...@earthlink.com...
Stormin Mormon
Sep 10, 2011, 9:17:29 AM9/10/11
to
While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
and all.
"Karl Townsend" <karltown...@embarqmail.com> wrote in
message news:e7om675tcad7iafqd...@4ax.com...
all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
and all.
"Karl Townsend" <karltown...@embarqmail.com> wrote in
message news:e7om675tcad7iafqd...@4ax.com...
Doug White
Sep 10, 2011, 9:39:33 AM9/10/11
to
Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:26qdnffMi9ePrfbT...@earthlink.com:
news:26qdnffMi9ePrfbT...@earthlink.com:
Maybe at the surface, or in really shallow water. You've got a huge
heatsink to work with, and as long as the water from down deep is cooler
than the dewpoint, it should also remove humidity. Not sure how you
could do it under way, but lowering a hose over the side long enough to
get to cooler water would work when you are tied up.
Doug White
dca...@krl.org
Sep 10, 2011, 9:37:18 AM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 5:38 am, Richard <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
> > heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
> > possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.
>
> When it's 112 in the shade?
> Water temp was about 87.
Is that water temperature at the surface? What is the water
temperature ten feet down?
Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is
about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without
foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down
right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable
while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period.
Dan
dca...@krl.org
Sep 10, 2011, 9:25:10 AM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 8:58 am, Karl Townsend <karltownsend....@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
wrote:
> Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
> better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
> 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
> 40btu per pound.
> Karl
Not the numbers I remember from high school. But it would take a lot
of ice. If I remember correctly a ton of airconditioning ( one ton of
ice melting in 24 hours)
is 12,000 btu's per hour.
Dan
J. Clarke
Sep 10, 2011, 10:08:12 AM9/10/11
to
In article <d99a4d77-d1a4-47b3-82f4-
f0f543...@br5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, dca...@krl.org says...
The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". A water
bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to
stability.
f0f543...@br5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, dca...@krl.org says...
bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to
stability.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sep 10, 2011, 11:43:43 AM9/10/11
to
"dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> fired this volley in news:38bf5938-
2f0a-4f26-9c0...@d25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
2f0a-4f26-9c0...@d25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> If I remember correctly a ton of airconditioning ( one ton of
> ice melting in 24 hours)
> is 12,000 btu's per hour.
>
>
Yes, Dan, but you missed a nit.
Water absorbs 80 calories per gram going from 0C ice to 0C water, but
then it also absorbs 1 calorie per gram to increase in temperature one
degree C.
So a gram of water would absorb 80+(say)20 calories going from 0C ice to
20C water.
If you were a creature that was comfortable at 110C, you'd gain an extra
boon, because water absorbs another 540 calories changing from 100C water
to 100C steam.
LLoyd
LLoyd
J. Clarke
Sep 10, 2011, 12:37:10 PM9/10/11
to
In article <Xns9F5C7751F9002ll...@216.168.3.70>, "Lloyd
E. Sponenburgh" says...
E. Sponenburgh" says...
He hasn't "missed a bit". The "ton" rating is a well accepted industry
standard in the US.
pyotr filipivich
Sep 10, 2011, 1:07:59 PM9/10/11
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On a boat?
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
pyotr filipivich
Sep 10, 2011, 1:07:59 PM9/10/11
to
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep
2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
use it to charge "soda water".
2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
>all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
>and all.
So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
>all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
>and all.
use it to charge "soda water".
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sep 10, 2011, 1:13:44 PM9/10/11
to
"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> fired this volley in
news:MPG.28d55c405...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local:
> He hasn't "missed a bit". The "ton" rating is a well accepted industry
> standard in the US.
I wasn't talking about the ton rating... he surmised the figures were
wrong because he didn't account for the additional heat absorption from
32F to 60F.
I know what a cooling "ton" is... I'll even bet Stormin' Morman knows.
<G>, but it only expresses a number of BTUs or calories absorbed per
hour... it does not calculate (or even intend to calculate) how many BTUs
are necessary to cool from one temperature to another. It's only purpose
is to give a unit name to how much heat it takes to melt one ton of ice
-- that means from 0C ice to 0C water; none other.
LLoyd
news:MPG.28d55c405...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local:
> He hasn't "missed a bit". The "ton" rating is a well accepted industry
> standard in the US.
wrong because he didn't account for the additional heat absorption from
32F to 60F.
I know what a cooling "ton" is... I'll even bet Stormin' Morman knows.
<G>, but it only expresses a number of BTUs or calories absorbed per
hour... it does not calculate (or even intend to calculate) how many BTUs
are necessary to cool from one temperature to another. It's only purpose
is to give a unit name to how much heat it takes to melt one ton of ice
-- that means from 0C ice to 0C water; none other.
LLoyd
dca...@krl.org
Sep 10, 2011, 1:19:09 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 10:08 am, "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is
> > about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without
> > foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down
> > right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable
> > while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period.
>
> The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". A water
> bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to
> stability.
I should have said " something like a water bed." You would not
that much mass. With a lot less mass you would probably want some way
to circulate water through the " marine water bed ". And a PIC to
monitor the temperature and turn the pump on and off as necessary.
Dan
pyotr filipivich
Sep 10, 2011, 1:25:16 PM9/10/11
to
Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:38:19 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That's a 25 degree (F) [13 C] differential. Remember, heat pumps
"move" the heat from one area to another. In essence, a heat pump
would be trying to "heat all outdoors" - or the entire lake, as the
case may be.
One calorie per gram (of water) per degree - it is going to take a
lot of calories out of your boat to raise the temp of the lake from
48C to 49C. That is what you have to work with.
dca...@krl.org
Sep 10, 2011, 1:49:55 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 1:13 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> fired this volley innews:MPG.28d55c405...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local:
The figures I think are wrong are Karl's 9 btu to melt a lb. of ice.
The numbers I learned in high school were 144 btu's per lb of ice.
Karl is no dummy. But he must be thinking of something else.
Dan
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> fired this volley innews:MPG.28d55c405...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local:
>
>
> I wasn't talking about the ton rating... he surmised the figures were
> wrong because he didn't account for the additional heat absorption from
> 32F to 60F.
>
> LLoyd
>
> I wasn't talking about the ton rating... he surmised the figures were
> wrong because he didn't account for the additional heat absorption from
> 32F to 60F.
>
The figures I think are wrong are Karl's 9 btu to melt a lb. of ice.
The numbers I learned in high school were 144 btu's per lb of ice.
Karl is no dummy. But he must be thinking of something else.
Dan
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sep 10, 2011, 2:06:06 PM9/10/11
to
"dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> fired this volley in news:c5ef16f3-
0710-42b8-84d...@i2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> The figures I think are wrong are Karl's 9 btu to melt a lb. of ice.
> The numbers I learned in high school were 144 btu's per lb of ice.
>
> Karl is no dummy. But he must be thinking of something else.
And you're right.
The "ton" is confusing, too. Most people think the 12K BTU is the amount
of energy necessary to melt a ton of ice -- not so, it's the amount of
energy PER HOUR to melt one ton in 24 hours.
So the total energy required would be 288,000 BTU, and of course, one
two-thousanth of that would be 144 BTU.
LLoyd
0710-42b8-84d...@i2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> The figures I think are wrong are Karl's 9 btu to melt a lb. of ice.
> The numbers I learned in high school were 144 btu's per lb of ice.
>
> Karl is no dummy. But he must be thinking of something else.
The "ton" is confusing, too. Most people think the 12K BTU is the amount
of energy necessary to melt a ton of ice -- not so, it's the amount of
energy PER HOUR to melt one ton in 24 hours.
So the total energy required would be 288,000 BTU, and of course, one
two-thousanth of that would be 144 BTU.
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sep 10, 2011, 2:17:13 PM9/10/11
to
FWIW... that last can put the boat cooling project in perspective.
Let's say the cabin was small enough to cool with a 5000BTU AC.
That's 5/12 of a ton, so it would take 5/12 ton of water ice to provide
the same cooling capacity (ignoring the other thing about extra calories
derived from raising the temperature of the water)
Airgas corp. says dry ice has three times the cooling capacity per pound
as does water ice.
So now we only require 5/36 ton of dry ice to cool that cabin for 24
hours.
So that's what... about 278 pounds!
LLoyd <G>
J. Clarke
Sep 10, 2011, 3:17:33 PM9/10/11
to
In article <0r5n679i8kt00c0mn...@4ax.com>,
ph...@mindspring.com says...
>
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep
> 2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
> >While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
> >all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
> >and all.
>
> So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
> use it to charge "soda water".
ph...@mindspring.com says...
>
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep
> 2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
> >While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
> >all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
> >and all.
>
> So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
> use it to charge "soda water".
Or put up a picture of Al Gore and get some darts . . .
Artemus
Sep 10, 2011, 3:44:41 PM9/10/11
to
news:DuKdnclDpdQon_bT...@earthlink.com...
> I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
> open to the larger group as well.
>
> I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
> open to the larger group as well.
>
> I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
>
>
How about powering your existing AC unit from a portable gasoline
or diesel fueled welder/generator? I've seen many of these with 12
volt battery charging outputs.
Art
Stormin Mormon
Sep 10, 2011, 5:01:52 PM9/10/11
to
Pretty much what I suggested, but minus the 120v to 12v to
120v conversion losses.
"Artemus" <bo...@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:j4gen7$7rh$1...@dont-email.me...
120v conversion losses.
"Artemus" <bo...@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:j4gen7$7rh$1...@dont-email.me...
Gunner Asch
Sep 10, 2011, 5:05:05 PM9/10/11
to
be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water.
Gunner
DoN. Nichols
Sep 10, 2011, 5:36:02 PM9/10/11
to
On 2011-09-10, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
>>open to the larger group as well.
>>
>>I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
>>open to the larger group as well.
>>
>>I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
[ ... ]
> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
On a boat? Likely so, most of the time.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Larry Jaques
Sep 10, 2011, 5:55:50 PM9/10/11
to
>>Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>
> On a boat?
<giggle, snort, guffaw>
>
> On a boat?
--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 5:58:04 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 7:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
> Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
> better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
> 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
> 40btu per pound.
>
> That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
> 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
> better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
> approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
> do the weekend.
>
> maybe buy ten batteries.
>
> Karl
>
>
Here is what I got this morning from Geof.
> Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
> better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
> 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
> 40btu per pound.
>
> That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
> 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
> better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
> approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
> do the weekend.
>
> maybe buy ten batteries.
>
> Karl
>
>
You only get 241 BTUs/Lb of dry ice.
5000 BTU/241 = 20.7 LBs of dry ice/hr or about 500 lbs/day.
Cost/lb > $1, so at minimum you're spending $500/day
My 16000 BTU AC can't keep up with 100 degree temps. A 5K unit
certainly can't.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 6:07:04 PM9/10/11
to
MY boat is 26 feet long, 10 feet beam, and displaces about 6000 pounds.
Call is 500 cubic feet of interior volume.
That much water would be way over weight - a large water bed could
weight 2500 to 3000 pounds!
Not to mention what could happen when tacking!
Ok, it was a hair-brained idea.
But an interesting discussion.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 6:09:15 PM9/10/11
to
wear a heavy coat (at least!).
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 6:14:13 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
Interesting point, Gunner.
>
> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average.
Probably because of the high temps.
Obviously it would be a better idea than ice.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 6:15:32 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 6:56 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner Asch<gunne...@gmail.com>
> he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's
> per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas
> coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of
> outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have
> to dry it once.
>
> Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no
> outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks
> are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting,
> I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain!
>
> Pete Keillor
Pete, start a rain dance.
Do you know why a rain dance always works?
It's because you don't stop dancing until it rains!
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner Asch<gunne...@gmail.com>
>>> I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
>>> open to the larger group as well.
>>>
>>> open to the larger group as well.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
>>>
>>>
>> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>
> If he's on the water and needs a/c, probably. As a matter of fact,
>
> he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's
> per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas
> coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of
> outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have
> to dry it once.
>
> Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no
> outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks
> are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting,
> I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain!
>
> Pete Keillor
Pete, start a rain dance.
Do you know why a rain dance always works?
It's because you don't stop dancing until it rains!
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 6:37:17 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 8:15 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
> off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
> paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
> who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
> your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
> might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
> small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
> boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
> (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>
I dunno, Storm.
First up, my outboard is a 4 stroke water cooled (Yamaha 9.9),
and I drive up to Oklahoma to the Jet Petroleum station to buy (non-
alcohol ) gas for it (19 miles - big deal).
So it doesn't used mixed fuel.
That just started a couple of months ago because the marina could no
longer supply non-alcohol fuel.
This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in it.
I have a small window air conditioner for the boat which works quite
well at the dock. But this summer is has been earning it's keep at
home. Two small window units take a huge load off the ancient central
air system and have cut our summer electric bills in half - even in this
high temp summer.
Anyway, the AC unit is supposedly rated at 750 watts.
That would mean the gen set would be running at 3/4 power all the time.
and I dunno about start surges!
Is it this one? That's not a bad unit for the buck.
They used to have them on the shelf at Northern Tools, but all gone now.
But I think I saw one at Costco recently.
http://tinyurl.com/3atuzxh
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ETQ&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6297739054608113784&sa=X&ei=6OFrTqjCIMmlsALsoqncCQ&ved=0CHYQ8gIwBw
> Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
> off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
> paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
> who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
> your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
> might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
> small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
> boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
> (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>
I dunno, Storm.
First up, my outboard is a 4 stroke water cooled (Yamaha 9.9),
and I drive up to Oklahoma to the Jet Petroleum station to buy (non-
alcohol ) gas for it (19 miles - big deal).
So it doesn't used mixed fuel.
That just started a couple of months ago because the marina could no
longer supply non-alcohol fuel.
This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in it.
I have a small window air conditioner for the boat which works quite
well at the dock. But this summer is has been earning it's keep at
home. Two small window units take a huge load off the ancient central
air system and have cut our summer electric bills in half - even in this
high temp summer.
Anyway, the AC unit is supposedly rated at 750 watts.
That would mean the gen set would be running at 3/4 power all the time.
and I dunno about start surges!
Is it this one? That's not a bad unit for the buck.
They used to have them on the shelf at Northern Tools, but all gone now.
But I think I saw one at Costco recently.
http://tinyurl.com/3atuzxh
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ETQ&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6297739054608113784&sa=X&ei=6OFrTqjCIMmlsALsoqncCQ&ved=0CHYQ8gIwBw
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 6:40:52 PM9/10/11
to
120 vac units are cheap, and other than disposing of the hot air, easy
to use.
And 12 volts to charge batteries would be a God send after a couple of days.
I think someone is missing the boat by not offering just such a thing
for sailboat use. Probably the liability factor?
Artemus
Sep 10, 2011, 6:54:51 PM9/10/11
to
news:wc-dnX-r2tTjevbT...@earthlink.com...
http://www.alten-dc.com/products.html
http://toolmonger.com/2009/09/22/gas-powered-battery-charger/
Not cheap but they are available.
There are also loads of hits on google for building you own.
Art
> >
> > How about powering your existing AC unit from a portable gasoline
> > or diesel fueled welder/generator? I've seen many of these with 12
> > volt battery charging outputs.
> > Art
> >
> >
>
> The thought has wandered through my head a few times.
>
> 120 vac units are cheap, and other than disposing of the hot air, easy
> to use.
>
> And 12 volts to charge batteries would be a God send after a couple of days.
>
> I think someone is missing the boat by not offering just such a thing
> for sailboat use. Probably the liability factor?
>
Here's a few of them.
> > How about powering your existing AC unit from a portable gasoline
> > or diesel fueled welder/generator? I've seen many of these with 12
> > volt battery charging outputs.
> > Art
> >
> >
>
> The thought has wandered through my head a few times.
>
> 120 vac units are cheap, and other than disposing of the hot air, easy
> to use.
>
> And 12 volts to charge batteries would be a God send after a couple of days.
>
> I think someone is missing the boat by not offering just such a thing
> for sailboat use. Probably the liability factor?
>
http://www.alten-dc.com/products.html
http://toolmonger.com/2009/09/22/gas-powered-battery-charger/
Not cheap but they are available.
There are also loads of hits on google for building you own.
Art
dca...@krl.org
Sep 10, 2011, 8:39:02 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 6:07 pm, Richard <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> MY boat is 26 feet long, 10 feet beam, and displaces about 6000 pounds.
> Call is 500 cubic feet of interior volume.
>
> That much water would be way over weight - a large water bed could
> weight 2500 to 3000 pounds!
>
> Not to mention what could happen when tacking!
>
> Ok, it was a hair-brained idea.
>
> But an interesting discussion.
But if you had something more like a couple of hot water bottles with
> MY boat is 26 feet long, 10 feet beam, and displaces about 6000 pounds.
> Call is 500 cubic feet of interior volume.
>
> That much water would be way over weight - a large water bed could
> weight 2500 to 3000 pounds!
>
> Not to mention what could happen when tacking!
>
> Ok, it was a hair-brained idea.
>
> But an interesting discussion.
tubes connected to them so a 12 volt bilge pump could change the water
a couple of times an hour................or maybe something like an
air mattress half filled with water.
Dan
Dan
Gunner Asch
Sep 10, 2011, 8:40:45 PM9/10/11
to
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:58:04 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Doesnt it also have some small difference if one is trying to cool a
2000 sqft house...or a 100 sq foot enclosed cabin in a boat?
wrote:
2000 sqft house...or a 100 sq foot enclosed cabin in a boat?
Gunner Asch
Sep 10, 2011, 8:42:10 PM9/10/11
to
On 10 Sep 2011 21:36:02 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com>
wrote:
>On 2011-09-10, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
>>>open to the larger group as well.
>>>
>>>I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
>
> [ ... ]
>
>> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>
> On a boat? Likely so, most of the time.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
Im curious if that is indeed true, given the absolutely low humidity in
Texas at the moment.
Shrug...just courious.
wrote:
>On 2011-09-10, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
>>>open to the larger group as well.
>>>
>>>I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...
>
> [ ... ]
>
>> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>
> On a boat? Likely so, most of the time.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
Texas at the moment.
Shrug...just courious.
Gunner Asch
Sep 10, 2011, 8:44:13 PM9/10/11
to
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the
working range.
Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is
keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish
I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April.
wrote:
working range.
Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is
keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish
I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April.
Artemus
Sep 10, 2011, 8:52:16 PM9/10/11
to
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:av0o67p37st5c3382...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> >>
> >> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
> >
> >Interesting point, Gunner.
> >
> >THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average.
> >Probably because of the high temps.
> >
> >Obviously it would be a better idea than ice.
> >
> While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the
> working range.
>
> Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is
> keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish
>
> I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April.
>
>
> Gunner
>
Here is a chart showing the temp/humidity effectiveness
> wrote:
>
> >On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> >>
> >> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
> >
> >Interesting point, Gunner.
> >
> >THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average.
> >Probably because of the high temps.
> >
> >Obviously it would be a better idea than ice.
> >
> While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the
> working range.
>
> Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is
> keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish
>
> I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April.
>
>
> Gunner
>
of a swamp box. You're doing much better than it shows
for your conditions.
Art
Artemus
Sep 10, 2011, 8:53:47 PM9/10/11
to
"Artemus" <bo...@invalid.org> wrote in message news:j4h0nt$jpt$1...@dont-email.me...
http://www.air-n-water.com/Common-Swamp-Mistakes.htm
Art
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 9:38:36 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 7:40 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:58:04 -0500, Richard<cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/10/2011 7:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
>>
>>> Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
>>> better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
>>> 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
>>> 40btu per pound.
>>>
>>> That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
>>> 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
>>> better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
>>> approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
>>> do the weekend.
>>>
>>> maybe buy ten batteries.
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Here is what I got this morning from Geof.
>>
>>
>>
>> You only get 241 BTUs/Lb of dry ice.
>> 5000 BTU/241 = 20.7 LBs of dry ice/hr or about 500 lbs/day.
>> Cost/lb> $1, so at minimum you're spending $500/day
>> My 16000 BTU AC can't keep up with 100 degree temps. A 5K unit
>> certainly can't.
>
> Doesnt it also have some small difference if one is trying to cool a
> 2000 sqft house...or a 100 sq foot enclosed cabin in a boat?
>
> Gunner
>
Geof's boat is a 44 footer.
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:58:04 -0500, Richard<cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/10/2011 7:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
>>
>>> Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
>>> better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
>>> 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
>>> 40btu per pound.
>>>
>>> That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
>>> 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
>>> better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
>>> approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
>>> do the weekend.
>>>
>>> maybe buy ten batteries.
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Here is what I got this morning from Geof.
>>
>>
>>
>> You only get 241 BTUs/Lb of dry ice.
>> 5000 BTU/241 = 20.7 LBs of dry ice/hr or about 500 lbs/day.
>> Cost/lb> $1, so at minimum you're spending $500/day
>> My 16000 BTU AC can't keep up with 100 degree temps. A 5K unit
>> certainly can't.
>
> Doesnt it also have some small difference if one is trying to cool a
> 2000 sqft house...or a 100 sq foot enclosed cabin in a boat?
>
> Gunner
>
As far as the volume that you are trying to cool, yes.
One of my more useful installations was a wash-down pump
and garden hose sprayer head. With that I can spray the
hull and deck, which cools the surfaces.
Reduces the cabin from oven to something more livable...
But as far as air conditioning goes, it looks like freon
is the only practical solution.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 9:53:01 PM9/10/11
to
You know, the apartment I had in Florida (West Palm Beach) used a swamp
cooler - even in that humidity. It was just humongous!
For what it's worth, I'm beginning to believe that effectiveness and
efecency are opposite ends of the string.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 10:14:07 PM9/10/11
to
The build-it-yourself approach has a lot of merit, except for...
The two big gotchas for me are:
1) physical size of the system, where could it be mounted?
2) it MUST be OUTSIDE the boat. (There is no place inside this boat
that it would be safe to have gasoline vapors).
Somewhere along that link I saw an old 500 watt Honda gen set.
THAT would be perfect. Small, Light, and enough power to handle our
needs. Alas, they are not made anymore...
Stormin Mormon
Sep 10, 2011, 10:34:06 PM9/10/11
to
> (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>
> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>
I dunno, Storm.
First up, my outboard is a 4 stroke water cooled (Yamaha
9.9),
and I drive up to Oklahoma to the Jet Petroleum station to
buy (non-
alcohol ) gas for it (19 miles - big deal).
So it doesn't used mixed fuel.
CY: Oh, well. Good idea gone to naught.
That just started a couple of months ago because the marina
could no
longer supply non-alcohol fuel.
This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in
it.
CY: I'm guessing you're better off with pure gas, if at all
possible. There is a web site, I think it is pure gas dot
com, that has listings of stations with real gasoline.
I have a small window air conditioner for the boat which
works quite
well at the dock. But this summer is has been earning it's
keep at
home. Two small window units take a huge load off the
ancient central
air system and have cut our summer electric bills in half -
even in this
high temp summer.
CY: Good on you! Might be your new window AC are more
efficient. Your central AC may also need service. Or, it can
be an older unit.
Anyway, the AC unit is supposedly rated at 750 watts.
That would mean the gen set would be running at 3/4 power
all the time.
and I dunno about start surges!
CY: Wish we lived closer, I'd offer to try your AC on my
genny. Actually, I could try mine on my genny, I guess.
Is it this one? That's not a bad unit for the buck.
They used to have them on the shelf at Northern Tools, but
all gone now.
But I think I saw one at Costco recently.
CY: Yep, that's the one. Mine is a TG-1200. Bought it on
Ebay, maybe three or four years ago.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 11:03:35 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 9:34 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
>> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>>
>
>
>> (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
>> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>>
>
>
> This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in
> it.
>
> CY: I'm guessing you're better off with pure gas, if at all
> possible. There is a web site, I think it is pure gas dot
> com, that has listings of stations with real gasoline.
Not .com, .org! http://pure-gas.org
> it.
>
> CY: I'm guessing you're better off with pure gas, if at all
> possible. There is a web site, I think it is pure gas dot
> com, that has listings of stations with real gasoline.
Not a single station in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Denison shows Grandpappy Marina, but they quit a couple of months ago.
Seals and all, yeah, I'm thinking it's better not to chance it.
Besides, I used 8 or 9 whole gallons of gas this summer.
It's not like it's a big headache. One trip per summer.
29 pounds, 1000 watts and Honda on the name plate
(and price tag - that's a full boat unit!).
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail§ion=P2GG&modelname=EU1000i&modelid=EU1000IKN
8 amps of 12 volts, but the 120vac (inverter!) might work well with my
on-board battery charger.
Freedom is power - power is freedom.
Richard
Sep 10, 2011, 11:06:48 PM9/10/11
to
On 9/10/2011 8:15 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
> off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
> paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
> who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
> your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
> might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
> small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
> boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
> Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
> off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
> paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
> who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
> your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
> might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
> small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
> boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
> (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>
(from Honda site)
> My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.
>
Reactive Loads
Reactive loads contain an electric motor, which requires additional
power to start, but significantly less power to run once it gets going.
Typically starting power is 3 times the amount of power to run the
application. Examples of reactive loads include:
* Refrigerators / freezers
* Furnace fans
* Well pumps
* Air conditioners
* Bench grinders
* Air compressors
* Power tools
Some household appliances, like a furnace or refrigerator, have internal
fans that come on intermittently. Extra wattage/power is needed to start
the fan each time. Refrigerators also have a defrost cycle that
requires power in addition to the compressor and fans.
Reactive loads may also require additional power when the electric motor
begins to work. For example, when a saw begins cutting wood, its power
requirement will increase. This is not applicable for most household
appliances.
My appliance is a 1000 watt model, but it takes 1600 watts to run it. Why?
Some devices are labeled or promoted with a power number. For example, a
hair dryer might say "1000W." This means the hair dryer itself produces
1000 watts of heat energy. But the amount the hair dryer uses from a
power outlet is always more than it produces in heat. This is because
the device’s energy use is not 100% efficient.
Another example is a microwave oven. It may be marketed as "1100 watt
oven" and indeed produce 1100 watts of cooking power, but it will
require more than that from a generator.
Gunner Asch
Sep 10, 2011, 11:43:23 PM9/10/11
to
experience.
Jon Elson
Sep 11, 2011, 12:22:06 AM9/11/11
to
Richard wrote:
> Statement of Problem:
> I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
> Independent of dock power.
> With as low of a battery load as possible.
>
> Proposed Solution:
>
> A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
> amounts of air across the cooler.
While dry ice is really cold, I don't think it has a huge amount of
heat capacity. So, you might do a lot better with blocks of water ice,
which might be cheaper too!
Most heat transfer fluids will turn to slush or worse when exposed to dry
ice temperatures, so you may have real problems keeping the fluid flowing.
Probably 200 gallons of Fluorinert would break your budget.
And, of course, the dry ice will generate HUGE amounts of CO2, great to
keep fires from starting on the boat, but otherwise kind of a problem.
What you may not understand is that you are going to need TONS of dry ice
to keep it cool for 4 days straight in a warm climate. Huge amounts of
insulation may help, most boats have none at all.
Jon
Message has been deleted
Richard
Sep 11, 2011, 1:20:26 AM9/11/11
to
On 9/11/2011 12:10 AM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> Are you talking about air conditioning while at a mooring or under
> way?
>
> In the tropics everyone has a canopy they put up when moored. Usually
> full length but at least covering the "living" part of the boat which
> drops the deck temperature quite a bit. Another scheme is a canopy and
> big fans, regular 14" or larger floor fans with the pedestal taken off
> and hung in the boat.
>
> A heat pump sucking up seawater and pumping it through a radiator with
> a fan blowing air through it might also help.Use a submersible bilge
> pump and a small car radiator or car heater radiator to test the idea.
>
>
>
> Are you talking about air conditioning while at a mooring or under
> way?
>
> In the tropics everyone has a canopy they put up when moored. Usually
> full length but at least covering the "living" part of the boat which
> drops the deck temperature quite a bit. Another scheme is a canopy and
> big fans, regular 14" or larger floor fans with the pedestal taken off
> and hung in the boat.
>
> A heat pump sucking up seawater and pumping it through a radiator with
> a fan blowing air through it might also help.Use a submersible bilge
> pump and a small car radiator or car heater radiator to test the idea.
>
Worth fooling around with...
I'll dig around and see what I have to mess with.
If this is a workable solution at all, we could just tie into
one of the existing thru-hull valves and pick up water there.
Mostly it's at the mooring.
Under weigh the wind helps keep us cool, and you are busy.
But at anchor, and especially at night while trying to sleep,
temperature becomes a big factor.
pyotr filipivich
Sep 11, 2011, 3:26:21 AM9/11/11
to
"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:17:33 -0400
>ph...@mindspring.com says...
>>
>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep
>> 2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> >While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
>> >all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
>> >and all.
>>
>> So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
>> use it to charge "soda water".
>
>Or put up a picture of Al Gore and get some darts . . .
You can do that anyway. I'm not "environmentally sensitive" - I'm
cheap! CO2 doesn't grow on trees you know, and it ain't free!
>
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>In article <0r5n679i8kt00c0mn...@4ax.com>,
>ph...@mindspring.com says...
>>
>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep
>> 2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> >While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
>> >all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
>> >and all.
>>
>> So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
>> use it to charge "soda water".
>
>Or put up a picture of Al Gore and get some darts . . .
You can do that anyway. I'm not "environmentally sensitive" - I'm
cheap! CO2 doesn't grow on trees you know, and it ain't free!
>
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
pyotr filipivich
Sep 11, 2011, 3:26:21 AM9/11/11
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:05:05 -0700
>
>Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not
>be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water.
Okay, on a boat.
("Would you like them on your goat?
Would you eat them in your coat?")
err, never mind, the heat's gotten to me. All the way up to 82 today.
tschus
pyotr
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>
>>>>Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
>>>>what am I missing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Richard
>>>
>>>>what am I missing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Richard
>>>
>>>Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>>
>> On a boat?
>>
>
>Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not
>be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water.
Okay, on a boat.
("Would you like them on your goat?
Would you eat them in your coat?")
err, never mind, the heat's gotten to me. All the way up to 82 today.
tschus
pyotr
Richard
Sep 11, 2011, 4:14:32 AM9/11/11
to
On 9/10/2011 8:17 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
> all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
> and all.
>
You DO know where that CO2 came from, don't you?
> While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
> all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
> and all.
>
It goes right back where it came from.
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 11, 2011, 4:42:27 AM9/11/11
to
'Air Products, Corp.', where it is seperated from the liquid oxygen
they sell to hospitals & steel mills?
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
dca...@krl.org
Sep 11, 2011, 7:40:59 AM9/11/11
to
On Sep 11, 1:20 am, Richard <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Worth fooling around with...
> I'll dig around and see what I have to mess with.
> If this is a workable solution at all, we could just tie into
> one of the existing thru-hull valves and pick up water there.
>
I would measure the water temperature at various depths. I think you
will find the water much cooler a few feet down. But that will
depend on where you are. I can remember swimming in the Hood Canal
when I lived in the Pacific NW, In August it was okay as long as you
kept swimming. But if you stopped and let you legs down ,the water
was downright cold.
Dan
Larry Jaques
Sep 11, 2011, 8:00:38 AM9/11/11
to
On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:26:21 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:05:05 -0700
>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>>>>>Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
>>>>>what am I missing?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Richard
>>>>
>>>>Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>>>
>>> On a boat?
>>
>>Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not
>>be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water.
>
> Okay, on a boat.
>
> ("Would you like them on your goat?
> Would you eat them in your coat?")
A dry wind blows o'er my moat.
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:05:05 -0700
>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>>>>>Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
>>>>>what am I missing?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Richard
>>>>
>>>>Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>>>
>>> On a boat?
>>
>>Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not
>>be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water.
>
> Okay, on a boat.
>
> ("Would you like them on your goat?
> Would you eat them in your coat?")
Doan breathe it lest you bloat.
>err, never mind, the heat's gotten to me. All the way up to 82 today.
--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Jim Wilkins
Sep 11, 2011, 8:56:39 AM9/11/11
to
news:A-WdnWThQYPkhPHT...@earthlink.com...
>
> Somewhere along that link I saw an old 500 watt Honda gen set.
> THAT would be perfect. Small, Light, and enough power to handle our
> needs. Alas, they are not made anymore...
>
> Somewhere along that link I saw an old 500 watt Honda gen set.
> THAT would be perfect. Small, Light, and enough power to handle our
> needs. Alas, they are not made anymore...
Honda wasn't the only maker, I bought a beat-up 500W Kohler Powerplay 500
2-stroke gas generator at a ham radio flea market. It's loud, smelly and
vibrates a lot, so maybe the $99 one from HF would be no worse.
When an ice storm dropped a tree on my roof and cut off electricity for a
week that genny let me fix the dozen holes and cracked rafter. It was enough
to power a saber saw and the Makita panel saw battery charger, and light
enough to carry up there.
jsw
Stormin Mormon
Sep 11, 2011, 9:40:46 AM9/11/11
to
Yes, carbon dioxide comes from rich people like Al Gore, who
don't pay their fair share.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
news:cuqdneOqaMJv8PHT...@earthlink.com...
don't pay their fair share.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
news:cuqdneOqaMJv8PHT...@earthlink.com...
Larry Jaques
Sep 11, 2011, 11:57:19 AM9/11/11
to
On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:56:39 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:A-WdnWThQYPkhPHT...@earthlink.com...
>>
>> Somewhere along that link I saw an old 500 watt Honda gen set.
>> THAT would be perfect. Small, Light, and enough power to handle our
>> needs. Alas, they are not made anymore...
>
>Honda wasn't the only maker, I bought a beat-up 500W Kohler Powerplay 500
>2-stroke gas generator at a ham radio flea market. It's loud, smelly and
>vibrates a lot, so maybe the $99 one from HF would be no worse.
Well, the Kohler just might outlive the Chiwanese engine/genny, Jim.
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:A-WdnWThQYPkhPHT...@earthlink.com...
>>
>> Somewhere along that link I saw an old 500 watt Honda gen set.
>> THAT would be perfect. Small, Light, and enough power to handle our
>> needs. Alas, they are not made anymore...
>
>Honda wasn't the only maker, I bought a beat-up 500W Kohler Powerplay 500
>2-stroke gas generator at a ham radio flea market. It's loud, smelly and
>vibrates a lot, so maybe the $99 one from HF would be no worse.
Just maybe. <g>
>When an ice storm dropped a tree on my roof and cut off electricity for a
>week that genny let me fix the dozen holes and cracked rafter. It was enough
>to power a saber saw and the Makita panel saw battery charger, and light
>enough to carry up there.
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 11, 2011, 1:33:21 PM9/11/11
to
"John B." wrote:
>
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:42:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Richard wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/10/2011 8:17 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> >> > While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
> >> > all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
> >> > and all.
> >> >
> >>
> >> You DO know where that CO2 came from, don't you?
> >>
> >> It goes right back where it came from.
> >
> >
> > 'Air Products, Corp.', where it is seperated from the liquid oxygen
> >they sell to hospitals & steel mills?
>
> countries. One method is to burn diesel fuel and scrub the exhaust. A
> certain amount is produced along with crude oil and gas and can be
> separated from the gas stream.
In third world countries without a high demand for liquid oxygen,
that may be their only choice.
Richard
Sep 11, 2011, 3:12:54 PM9/11/11
to
On 9/11/2011 3:42 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> Richard wrote:
>>
>> On 9/10/2011 8:17 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
>>> all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
>>> and all.
>>>
>>
>> You DO know where that CO2 came from, don't you?
>>
>> It goes right back where it came from.
>
>
> 'Air Products, Corp.', where it is seperated from the liquid oxygen
> they sell to hospitals& steel mills?
>
>
Yup. Air Products pulls it from the atmosphere.
>
> Richard wrote:
>>
>> On 9/10/2011 8:17 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
>>> all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
>>> and all.
>>>
>>
>> You DO know where that CO2 came from, don't you?
>>
>> It goes right back where it came from.
>
>
> 'Air Products, Corp.', where it is seperated from the liquid oxygen
> they sell to hospitals& steel mills?
>
>
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 11, 2011, 3:32:54 PM9/11/11
to
their pumps running a mile away. I could see it out the back window of
the second floor of my dad's house.
Usual suspect
Sep 12, 2011, 10:40:03 PM9/12/11
to
If I wanted to cool a anchored sail boat I would consider adapting the
heating technology shown at the following web site to cooling. See
http://www.warmzone.com/hydronic-radiant-floor-heat.asp It should be
very energy efficient.
heating technology shown at the following web site to cooling. See
http://www.warmzone.com/hydronic-radiant-floor-heat.asp It should be
very energy efficient.
Richard
Sep 12, 2011, 11:03:47 PM9/12/11
to
But it would be hard to retro-fit to an existing sailboat.
On this boat the cabin floor, the part that is not actually hull is only
about 3 feet by 7. There is a removable plywood bilge plate (sole) that
is about 2 feet by 5 feet. The rest of the interior is seats, berths,
and a few cabinets. Not a lot of accessible floor space.
Building that into the hull would be a whopping big mistake! As thin
as fiberglass hulls are you would spend more energy trying to hear or
cool the lake, or entire ocean!
I have my eye on a 1979 Gitana 43' Staysail Schooner - flush decked (oh
baby!) that I can just almost afford. She needs some cosmetic work but
it supposed to be seaworthy. We will find out next weekend.
In this size boat there is a lot more sole (floor) and such a trick
might be possible if one has the power budget to drive it...
J. Clarke
Sep 12, 2011, 11:20:51 PM9/12/11
to
In article <757q671tuecvn14h7...@4ax.com>,
usene...@emailias.com says...
The problem isn't distributing the cold, it's producing the cold in the
first place.
usene...@emailias.com says...
first place.
Ecnerwal
Sep 12, 2011, 11:47:55 PM9/12/11
to
In article <MPG.28d8961ce...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,
you park your boat in puddles that are not cold on the bottom, it won't
help you, but otherwise it could. Alternatively, you could use the more
traditional boat cooling method of 100 pounds of ice and 500 pounds of
beer, rather than cooling the air...
Of course, if you are foolish enough to lay out "radiant cooling" rather
than run it through an air handler with a condensate drain, the dank
will make life unpleasant very fast. If you use an air handler, air
conditioning in deep fresh water becomes a simple matter of pump and fan
loads as you pull the <40F water from below the thermocline. Most bodies
of salt water are a bit too well mixed to get the really cool stuff at a
reasonable depth, but "cooler than the air" and even "cooler than the
dewpoint of the air" is often achievable with 50 feet of hose...
Choose an efficient pump and fan for best results.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote:
> The problem isn't distributing the cold, it's producing the cold in the
> first place.
In most deep bodies of water, that's called "a hose to the anchor." If
> The problem isn't distributing the cold, it's producing the cold in the
> first place.
you park your boat in puddles that are not cold on the bottom, it won't
help you, but otherwise it could. Alternatively, you could use the more
traditional boat cooling method of 100 pounds of ice and 500 pounds of
beer, rather than cooling the air...
Of course, if you are foolish enough to lay out "radiant cooling" rather
than run it through an air handler with a condensate drain, the dank
will make life unpleasant very fast. If you use an air handler, air
conditioning in deep fresh water becomes a simple matter of pump and fan
loads as you pull the <40F water from below the thermocline. Most bodies
of salt water are a bit too well mixed to get the really cool stuff at a
reasonable depth, but "cooler than the air" and even "cooler than the
dewpoint of the air" is often achievable with 50 feet of hose...
Choose an efficient pump and fan for best results.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
Richard
Sep 13, 2011, 1:04:43 AM9/13/11
to
On 9/12/2011 10:47 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
> In article<MPG.28d8961ce...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,
> "J. Clarke"<jclark...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> The problem isn't distributing the cold, it's producing the cold in the
>> first place.
>
> In most deep bodies of water, that's called "a hose to the anchor." If
> you park your boat in puddles that are not cold on the bottom, it won't
> help you, but otherwise it could. Alternatively, you could use the more
> traditional boat cooling method of 100 pounds of ice and 500 pounds of
> beer, rather than cooling the air...
> In article<MPG.28d8961ce...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,
> "J. Clarke"<jclark...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> The problem isn't distributing the cold, it's producing the cold in the
>> first place.
>
> In most deep bodies of water, that's called "a hose to the anchor." If
> you park your boat in puddles that are not cold on the bottom, it won't
> help you, but otherwise it could. Alternatively, you could use the more
> traditional boat cooling method of 100 pounds of ice and 500 pounds of
> beer, rather than cooling the air...
See, that's what I like about this group. There is always someone who
has a good grasp of the technology and can offer a practical solution to
almost any problem!
:)
Richard
Gunner Asch
Sep 13, 2011, 1:12:39 AM9/13/11
to
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:03:47 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
If you dont mind a bit of fixing stuff...keep a weather eye on the
auctions of
http://myworld.ebay.com/boatangelministries/
in your area.
Some really..really good deals on boats. Several friends of mine have
purchased boats from this seller on Ebay. 3 of the 4 needed about $500
in repairs..the 4th got a minty ready to go 28'er.
I watch these auctions with interest.
wrote:
auctions of
http://myworld.ebay.com/boatangelministries/
in your area.
Some really..really good deals on boats. Several friends of mine have
purchased boats from this seller on Ebay. 3 of the 4 needed about $500
in repairs..the 4th got a minty ready to go 28'er.
I watch these auctions with interest.
Richard
Sep 13, 2011, 1:58:45 AM9/13/11
to
On 9/13/2011 12:12 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> If you dont mind a bit of fixing stuff...keep a weather eye on the
> auctions of
> http://myworld.ebay.com/boatangelministries/
>
> in your area.
>
> Some really..really good deals on boats. Several friends of mine have
> purchased boats from this seller on Ebay. 3 of the 4 needed about $500
> in repairs..the 4th got a minty ready to go 28'er.
>
> I watch these auctions with interest.
>
> Gunner
>
Thanks, Gunner.
>
> If you dont mind a bit of fixing stuff...keep a weather eye on the
> auctions of
> http://myworld.ebay.com/boatangelministries/
>
> in your area.
>
> Some really..really good deals on boats. Several friends of mine have
> purchased boats from this seller on Ebay. 3 of the 4 needed about $500
> in repairs..the 4th got a minty ready to go 28'er.
>
> I watch these auctions with interest.
>
> Gunner
>
That's an interesting lead.
I ran through the list, but nothing there right now that might be
suitable.
But if you see something in the 40 to 50 foot sail category, especially
a ketch of schooner rig, please holler. LOUD!
:)
Richard
Gunner Asch
Sep 13, 2011, 5:05:47 AM9/13/11
to
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 00:58:45 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Put him in your Ebay Favorites Seller list and check at least once a
week. There are quite a number of them thoughout the year.
Id stay away from a wood hull..and think really hard about a steel
hull..have em both surveyed..but a decent glass hull in that length wont
cost you more than about $4k from what Ive seen.
Pay attention to the photos..they are taken by the owners..and some
boats need a shitload of work...gack!..but others..very damned little.
The organization is a 501-C3...and evidently they do a shitload of boat
sales ever year.
Spring time is very good time to be looking, just a heads up. I talked
to one of the guys once..and he said widows tend to donate boats the old
man had because she cant sail them..and slip and storage rental is
eating up the savings/bingo money. Lately I had a nice email
conversation with a couple who wound up with a sail boat after Katrina.
Evidently it had been sunk, raised, pumped out..and left to turn into a
mold bucket. They got it nearly free..or free..and stripped it and
sailed it with nothing in the cabin for a couple years..then moved up to
Minnestota or somewhere where the fixed keel was impractical to use. 26'
as I recall.
Lots of cheap sailboats now on Ebay..here is one in Texas
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-Ranger-29-Used-Sailboat-Sale-Texas-/120774975632
29', bidding at $640.00 as of my viewing.
Nice family boat..decently rigged. Probably fixed keel of course..so
that limits inland sailing if thats what one is into.
NO TRAILER FOR THIS BOAT
Donor states*, the boat sleeps 4 people. The upholstery is in poor
condition. The boat was inherited, never been in boat except to take
pictures last week.
ITEM LOCATION:
/ Marina /
ROCKPORT, TEXAS 78382
Ill be damned surprised if it goes up to $1500.00 before end of auction.
We are getting late in the season...boats will be very cheap..but less
will be available.
A perfect example....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-San-Juan-Mark-II-21-Used-Sloop-Sailboat-Sale-North-Carolina-/360392973157
No trailer. If it were closer..Id bid on it myself. Be a fun weekender
and cleaning it up would be cheap and simple.
1 day, 3 hours, 8 bids...$56.00 so far and it includes a $2500 outboard.
Gunner
wrote:
week. There are quite a number of them thoughout the year.
Id stay away from a wood hull..and think really hard about a steel
hull..have em both surveyed..but a decent glass hull in that length wont
cost you more than about $4k from what Ive seen.
Pay attention to the photos..they are taken by the owners..and some
boats need a shitload of work...gack!..but others..very damned little.
The organization is a 501-C3...and evidently they do a shitload of boat
sales ever year.
Spring time is very good time to be looking, just a heads up. I talked
to one of the guys once..and he said widows tend to donate boats the old
man had because she cant sail them..and slip and storage rental is
eating up the savings/bingo money. Lately I had a nice email
conversation with a couple who wound up with a sail boat after Katrina.
Evidently it had been sunk, raised, pumped out..and left to turn into a
mold bucket. They got it nearly free..or free..and stripped it and
sailed it with nothing in the cabin for a couple years..then moved up to
Minnestota or somewhere where the fixed keel was impractical to use. 26'
as I recall.
Lots of cheap sailboats now on Ebay..here is one in Texas
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-Ranger-29-Used-Sailboat-Sale-Texas-/120774975632
29', bidding at $640.00 as of my viewing.
Nice family boat..decently rigged. Probably fixed keel of course..so
that limits inland sailing if thats what one is into.
NO TRAILER FOR THIS BOAT
Donor states*, the boat sleeps 4 people. The upholstery is in poor
condition. The boat was inherited, never been in boat except to take
pictures last week.
ITEM LOCATION:
/ Marina /
ROCKPORT, TEXAS 78382
Ill be damned surprised if it goes up to $1500.00 before end of auction.
We are getting late in the season...boats will be very cheap..but less
will be available.
A perfect example....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-San-Juan-Mark-II-21-Used-Sloop-Sailboat-Sale-North-Carolina-/360392973157
No trailer. If it were closer..Id bid on it myself. Be a fun weekender
and cleaning it up would be cheap and simple.
1 day, 3 hours, 8 bids...$56.00 so far and it includes a $2500 outboard.
Gunner
Richard
Sep 13, 2011, 8:10:26 AM9/13/11
to
Thanks bud,
BUT...
I listed MY boat with the local broker (because they were pestering me
to). It's listed at 2X book value (book is 12 to 15k) and it's worth it
- to someone who wants it bad enough. :)
The old guy knows the price of everything but had to see the boat
personally to get a handle on value.
After restoring my prior boat, a 1991 Capri 18, I realized that they
take more money, time, and effort to bring back to good shape than
anyone thinks. And all that is just to get an acceptable quality craft.
So I didn't want a fixer-upper. I wanted a good boat that I could make
better. MUCH more effective use of money and effort.
I'm NOT looking for another boat to fix up. But I am interested in a
real coastal cruiser for when D retires (a problem with dating younger
women!) We have 3 or 4 years yet before that comes up.
Fiberglass preferred - split rig (like a ketch or schooner) to reduce
the size of sails, masts, etc. Makes it a lot handier short handed.
12 to 15 tons displacement. Aluminum spars (ONLY!)
I like the old Gitana because it's a very easily driven hull (designed
as an ocean racer). And a lot of boat for the money.
This video is Blue Heron making making 1.5 knots downhill - spinnaker
only - in a 3.5 knot wind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d_Z3Xi-jJQ
For thoes who don't sail, that's really good.
William Buckley (yeah THAT WB) said that any boat over 50 feet is a
power boat, even if it has sails. People power up just to get somewhere
in a certain amount of time. That's probably too true of the heavy
built smaller "blue water" cruising sailboats as well. TOO heavy
for the size. It may be a more comfortable ride, but it's going to be a
much longer ride too!
I'd just as soon resurrect an old racer - at least they can move under
sail. And the prices can be real right.
So - maybe - once more?
With feeling...
For all the marbles?
:)
Richard
BUT...
I listed MY boat with the local broker (because they were pestering me
to). It's listed at 2X book value (book is 12 to 15k) and it's worth it
- to someone who wants it bad enough. :)
The old guy knows the price of everything but had to see the boat
personally to get a handle on value.
After restoring my prior boat, a 1991 Capri 18, I realized that they
take more money, time, and effort to bring back to good shape than
anyone thinks. And all that is just to get an acceptable quality craft.
So I didn't want a fixer-upper. I wanted a good boat that I could make
better. MUCH more effective use of money and effort.
I'm NOT looking for another boat to fix up. But I am interested in a
real coastal cruiser for when D retires (a problem with dating younger
women!) We have 3 or 4 years yet before that comes up.
Fiberglass preferred - split rig (like a ketch or schooner) to reduce
the size of sails, masts, etc. Makes it a lot handier short handed.
12 to 15 tons displacement. Aluminum spars (ONLY!)
I like the old Gitana because it's a very easily driven hull (designed
as an ocean racer). And a lot of boat for the money.
This video is Blue Heron making making 1.5 knots downhill - spinnaker
only - in a 3.5 knot wind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d_Z3Xi-jJQ
For thoes who don't sail, that's really good.
William Buckley (yeah THAT WB) said that any boat over 50 feet is a
power boat, even if it has sails. People power up just to get somewhere
in a certain amount of time. That's probably too true of the heavy
built smaller "blue water" cruising sailboats as well. TOO heavy
for the size. It may be a more comfortable ride, but it's going to be a
much longer ride too!
I'd just as soon resurrect an old racer - at least they can move under
sail. And the prices can be real right.
So - maybe - once more?
With feeling...
For all the marbles?
:)
Richard
toolbreaker
Sep 13, 2011, 10:04:32 AM9/13/11
to
On Sep 10, 6:53 pm, Richard <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 9/10/2011 7:53 PM, Artemus wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Artemus"<bo...@invalid.org> wrote in messagenews:j4h0nt$jpt$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> >> "Gunner Asch"<gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:av0o67p37st5c3382...@4ax.com...
> >>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard<cavel...@earthlink.net>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average.
> >>>> Probably because of the high temps.
>
> >>>> Obviously it would be a better idea than ice.
>
> >>> While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the
> >>> working range.
>
> >>> Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is
> >>> keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish
>
> >>> I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April.
>
> >>> Gunner
>
> >> Here is a chart showing the temp/humidity effectiveness
> >> of a swamp box. You're doing much better than it shows
> >> for your conditions.
> >> Art
>
> > Oops.
> >http://www.air-n-water.com/Common-Swamp-Mistakes.htm
> > Art
>
> Interesting site, Art.
>
> You know, the apartment I had in Florida (West Palm Beach) used a swamp
> cooler - even in that humidity. It was just humongous!
>
> For what it's worth, I'm beginning to believe that effectiveness and
> efecency are opposite ends of the string.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How about and absorption refigeration processs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator
> On 9/10/2011 7:53 PM, Artemus wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Artemus"<bo...@invalid.org> wrote in messagenews:j4h0nt$jpt$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> >> "Gunner Asch"<gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:av0o67p37st5c3382...@4ax.com...
> >>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard<cavel...@earthlink.net>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> >>>>> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>
> >>>> Interesting point, Gunner.
> >>>> On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> >>>>> Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?
>
>
> >>>> THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average.
> >>>> Probably because of the high temps.
>
> >>>> Obviously it would be a better idea than ice.
>
> >>> While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the
> >>> working range.
>
> >>> Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is
> >>> keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish
>
> >>> I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April.
>
> >>> Gunner
>
> >> Here is a chart showing the temp/humidity effectiveness
> >> of a swamp box. You're doing much better than it shows
> >> for your conditions.
> >> Art
>
> > Oops.
> >http://www.air-n-water.com/Common-Swamp-Mistakes.htm
> > Art
>
> Interesting site, Art.
>
> You know, the apartment I had in Florida (West Palm Beach) used a swamp
> cooler - even in that humidity. It was just humongous!
>
> For what it's worth, I'm beginning to believe that effectiveness and
> efecency are opposite ends of the string.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How about and absorption refigeration processs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator
Gunner Asch
Sep 13, 2011, 3:21:07 PM9/13/11
to
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:10:26 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Just keep watching. Ive seen nearly perfect boats..and some bare hulls
with crap in it.
A boat is nothing more than a hole in the water you put money into..the
bigger the boat..the more money it takes.
Which is why a lot of those boats sell so cheap. The economy, slip fees,
death in the family, lack of interest etc etc etc.
That 29 footer...someone got it as an inheritance..the seller had never
been on it before taking the photos.
Hence they got donated...they didnt know what else to do with it in many
cases. There was a VERY nice 35 footer..a 2003 that went for $2500
last month.
No mast/boom. Seems they went missing while under sail. The seller
didnt indicate how they went missing....Im guessing a bridge. But
closeups of the hull and attachment points didnt show any damage to
blocks, hull etc etc. So someone got a 35 footer for $2500 that needed
another $5k worth of mast/boom/rigging and sails. Which is entirely
doable. 35ft blue water sailer...completely outfitted plus decent used
rigging for $8k...not a bad deal at all.
It has a good running diesel engine in it too., IRRC
To you other guys...see that little 14' racer? Excellent starting
boat/day boat for lakes
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-CL-Sailboat-CL-14-Used-Sailboat-Boat-Trailer-Sale-Missouri-/120774953823
Here in California, in sailing areas..that will sell for $1800
2 hours to go...$299.00. They are a fun little boat to putter around
in.
wrote:
with crap in it.
A boat is nothing more than a hole in the water you put money into..the
bigger the boat..the more money it takes.
Which is why a lot of those boats sell so cheap. The economy, slip fees,
death in the family, lack of interest etc etc etc.
That 29 footer...someone got it as an inheritance..the seller had never
been on it before taking the photos.
Hence they got donated...they didnt know what else to do with it in many
cases. There was a VERY nice 35 footer..a 2003 that went for $2500
last month.
No mast/boom. Seems they went missing while under sail. The seller
didnt indicate how they went missing....Im guessing a bridge. But
closeups of the hull and attachment points didnt show any damage to
blocks, hull etc etc. So someone got a 35 footer for $2500 that needed
another $5k worth of mast/boom/rigging and sails. Which is entirely
doable. 35ft blue water sailer...completely outfitted plus decent used
rigging for $8k...not a bad deal at all.
It has a good running diesel engine in it too., IRRC
To you other guys...see that little 14' racer? Excellent starting
boat/day boat for lakes
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-CL-Sailboat-CL-14-Used-Sailboat-Boat-Trailer-Sale-Missouri-/120774953823
Here in California, in sailing areas..that will sell for $1800
2 hours to go...$299.00. They are a fun little boat to putter around
in.
Bruce Bergman
Sep 13, 2011, 5:44:29 PM9/13/11
to
On Saturday, September 10, 2011 3:40:52 PM UTC-7, Richard wrote:
> The thought has wandered through my head a few times.
>
> 120 vac units are cheap, and other than disposing of the hot air, easy
> to use.
>
> And 12 volts to charge batteries would be a God send after a couple of days.
>
> I think someone is missing the boat by not offering just such a thing
> for sailboat use. Probably the liability factor?
First on the practicality list is the water-coil air handler in the cabin, and the 50-foot hose on the anchor - I'd look at Walk-in Refrigeration coils, because they are already cased and have a condensate pan and a drain connection ready to go.
Second would be that "Marine Air Conditoner" - probably something using the little Danfoss 12V scroll compressor. It will wok when the 50-foot hose fails, lakes and such. If you want to get max efficiency, use a water cooled condenser and hook it to a few sea-cocks on the hull.
Connect that Marine AC to the battery bank, then build yourself a little battery charger to keep the bank topped off - run it in Float Charge most of the time, and the batteries take the starting load spike.
A little Hatz Diesel in the 10 HP range, and a 60A 12V car alternator - or they have a 9KVA "Silent Pack" close-coupled generator that would be perfect. Metalworking content in making a soundproofed box to hang it over the stern.
I put out an inquiry to Hatz USA - that Silent Pack would be perfect for a service truck.
--<< Bruce >>--
> The thought has wandered through my head a few times.
>
> 120 vac units are cheap, and other than disposing of the hot air, easy
> to use.
>
> And 12 volts to charge batteries would be a God send after a couple of days.
>
> I think someone is missing the boat by not offering just such a thing
> for sailboat use. Probably the liability factor?
First on the practicality list is the water-coil air handler in the cabin, and the 50-foot hose on the anchor - I'd look at Walk-in Refrigeration coils, because they are already cased and have a condensate pan and a drain connection ready to go.
Second would be that "Marine Air Conditoner" - probably something using the little Danfoss 12V scroll compressor. It will wok when the 50-foot hose fails, lakes and such. If you want to get max efficiency, use a water cooled condenser and hook it to a few sea-cocks on the hull.
Connect that Marine AC to the battery bank, then build yourself a little battery charger to keep the bank topped off - run it in Float Charge most of the time, and the batteries take the starting load spike.
A little Hatz Diesel in the 10 HP range, and a 60A 12V car alternator - or they have a 9KVA "Silent Pack" close-coupled generator that would be perfect. Metalworking content in making a soundproofed box to hang it over the stern.
I put out an inquiry to Hatz USA - that Silent Pack would be perfect for a service truck.
--<< Bruce >>--
Richard
Sep 13, 2011, 11:04:24 PM9/13/11
to
On 9/13/2011 2:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Hence they got donated...they didnt know what else to do with it in many
> cases. There was a VERY nice 35 footer..a 2003 that went for $2500
> last month.
> No mast/boom. Seems they went missing while under sail. The seller
> didnt indicate how they went missing....Im guessing a bridge. But
> closeups of the hull and attachment points didnt show any damage to
> blocks, hull etc etc. So someone got a 35 footer for $2500 that needed
> another $5k worth of mast/boom/rigging and sails. Which is entirely
> doable. 35ft blue water sailer...completely outfitted plus decent used
> rigging for $8k...not a bad deal at all.
> It has a good running diesel engine in it too., IRRC
>
>
> Hence they got donated...they didnt know what else to do with it in many
> cases. There was a VERY nice 35 footer..a 2003 that went for $2500
> last month.
> No mast/boom. Seems they went missing while under sail. The seller
> didnt indicate how they went missing....Im guessing a bridge. But
> closeups of the hull and attachment points didnt show any damage to
> blocks, hull etc etc. So someone got a 35 footer for $2500 that needed
> another $5k worth of mast/boom/rigging and sails. Which is entirely
> doable. 35ft blue water sailer...completely outfitted plus decent used
> rigging for $8k...not a bad deal at all.
> It has a good running diesel engine in it too., IRRC
>
I think you are an order of magnitude low in your price estimates.
A mast alone for a 35 footer is a LOT more than $8000 these days.
Then, besides the mast, boom, and various poles, there is a lot of
stainless steel rope and fittings required.
If the boat has been long in salt the rigging will need to be changed
anyway. Ten years is about all that is considered safe because of
crevice corrosion in the wire rope and swaged fittings.
After all that then you get to start going through all the systems -
wiring, plumbing, fuel, etc - to bring it up to be an old used boat.
That's till a LONG way from something that would be safe to cruise even
just along the coast.
There is an old Seafarer 26 on the hard at my marina that I could
probably buy for 1k, and I've thought about it too. Pull the engine
and transmission, wenches, and such, but then what to do with the hulk?
Richard
Sep 13, 2011, 11:14:07 PM9/13/11
to
That's an air cooled engine, isn't it?
10 HP would be a perfect sized main drive engine on my 26.
Interesting idea.
Bruce Bergman
Sep 14, 2011, 12:52:32 AM9/14/11
to
Me too - that 9KW one is air cooled, with the permanent magnet "sealed" generator end and "Silent Pack" fully enclosed motor would be perfect for things like that - Small and easy to find a place for.
Fit your sailboat with an Azi-Pod or two.
I started looking at Hatz because nobody in the US makes a good reliable _small_ 1- or 2-cyl diesel for little uses. (I was originally thinking about making a *Real* Diesel-Electric Locomotive in 7-1/2" gauge with a 90V generator and traction motors.) And the 3-Cyl Kubotas for Reefers are going to be a bit too big to fit in a scale F-7A/B set.
Diesel is a lot less hazardous to carry on a boat, and if you have a source for B85 Bio-Diesel...
Looks like the cooling fan is sandwiched on the tail end of the engine between the engine and generator, and there isn't even an accessory drive or rope pull coming out the "front" - this might be a problem if you need to recoil start it. Or you want to hang a Sanden AC Compressor off the front end.
Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50 Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.
And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.
Richard
Sep 14, 2011, 2:23:26 AM9/14/11
to
http://www.hatz-diesel.com/index.php
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200310743_200310743
And a Hatz 10 electric start used to power a Paceship 25
http://paceshipseastwind25.wordpress.com/2010/07/04/inboard-engine-options/
Seems like there are a lot of small air cooled diesels used in Asia...
How big would that 1800 rpm generator be physically?
That sounds sweet (bad pun but true!)
Gunner Asch
Sep 14, 2011, 3:01:38 AM9/14/11
to
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:04:24 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>On 9/13/2011 2:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> Hence they got donated...they didnt know what else to do with it in many
>> cases. There was a VERY nice 35 footer..a 2003 that went for $2500
>> last month.
>> No mast/boom. Seems they went missing while under sail. The seller
>> didnt indicate how they went missing....Im guessing a bridge. But
>> closeups of the hull and attachment points didnt show any damage to
>> blocks, hull etc etc. So someone got a 35 footer for $2500 that needed
>> another $5k worth of mast/boom/rigging and sails. Which is entirely
>> doable. 35ft blue water sailer...completely outfitted plus decent used
>> rigging for $8k...not a bad deal at all.
>> It has a good running diesel engine in it too., IRRC
>>
>
>I think you are an order of magnitude low in your price estimates.
>A mast alone for a 35 footer is a LOT more than $8000 these days.
Depends on WHERE you buy them. If you order them new..yes indeed.
If I can buy an entire 35' sailboat for less than $2500.....even a wood
hulled clunker with aluminum masts...think the rigging is gonna be
expensive?
Check the previous months deals too...such as...
http://minneys.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html
Note that they have masts....lots of masts....lots and lots of
masts...and booms..and rigging.....
Ive spend a significant amount of money in Minneys over the years..they
are close to several of my customers. And they are not the only such
shops around...chuckle..there are thousands of them across the US.
to go around the world on said rigging. If you are weekending/weeking
and are not planning on Force 5 weather......shrug.
to Minneys.....or equivelant.
The other involves the government and a nice new reef or fishing spot
they need to put something into. Often times the local agencies will
take your hull and sink it for a fishy playground.
One costs you $150 in chainsaw gas and a dumpster..the other is free.
wrote:
>On 9/13/2011 2:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> Hence they got donated...they didnt know what else to do with it in many
>> cases. There was a VERY nice 35 footer..a 2003 that went for $2500
>> last month.
>> No mast/boom. Seems they went missing while under sail. The seller
>> didnt indicate how they went missing....Im guessing a bridge. But
>> closeups of the hull and attachment points didnt show any damage to
>> blocks, hull etc etc. So someone got a 35 footer for $2500 that needed
>> another $5k worth of mast/boom/rigging and sails. Which is entirely
>> doable. 35ft blue water sailer...completely outfitted plus decent used
>> rigging for $8k...not a bad deal at all.
>> It has a good running diesel engine in it too., IRRC
>>
>
>I think you are an order of magnitude low in your price estimates.
>A mast alone for a 35 footer is a LOT more than $8000 these days.
If I can buy an entire 35' sailboat for less than $2500.....even a wood
hulled clunker with aluminum masts...think the rigging is gonna be
expensive?
>
>Then, besides the mast, boom, and various poles, there is a lot of
>stainless steel rope and fittings required.
http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/
>Then, besides the mast, boom, and various poles, there is a lot of
>stainless steel rope and fittings required.
Check the previous months deals too...such as...
http://minneys.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html
Note that they have masts....lots of masts....lots and lots of
masts...and booms..and rigging.....
Ive spend a significant amount of money in Minneys over the years..they
are close to several of my customers. And they are not the only such
shops around...chuckle..there are thousands of them across the US.
>
>If the boat has been long in salt the rigging will need to be changed
>anyway. Ten years is about all that is considered safe because of
>crevice corrosion in the wire rope and swaged fittings.
Depends on if its been in a nice quiet bay or not..and if you are going
>If the boat has been long in salt the rigging will need to be changed
>anyway. Ten years is about all that is considered safe because of
>crevice corrosion in the wire rope and swaged fittings.
to go around the world on said rigging. If you are weekending/weeking
and are not planning on Force 5 weather......shrug.
>
>After all that then you get to start going through all the systems -
>wiring, plumbing, fuel, etc - to bring it up to be an old used boat.
>That's till a LONG way from something that would be safe to cruise even
>just along the coast.
Depends on the original equipment and how handy you are....and if you go
>After all that then you get to start going through all the systems -
>wiring, plumbing, fuel, etc - to bring it up to be an old used boat.
>That's till a LONG way from something that would be safe to cruise even
>just along the coast.
to Minneys.....or equivelant.
>
>There is an old Seafarer 26 on the hard at my marina that I could
>probably buy for 1k, and I've thought about it too. Pull the engine
>and transmission, wenches, and such, but then what to do with the hulk?
Two ways to deal with the hull...one involves a dumpster and a chainsaw.
>There is an old Seafarer 26 on the hard at my marina that I could
>probably buy for 1k, and I've thought about it too. Pull the engine
>and transmission, wenches, and such, but then what to do with the hulk?
The other involves the government and a nice new reef or fishing spot
they need to put something into. Often times the local agencies will
take your hull and sink it for a fishy playground.
One costs you $150 in chainsaw gas and a dumpster..the other is free.
Gunner Asch
Sep 14, 2011, 3:56:21 AM9/14/11
to
Bruce!! Where the hell have you been hiding out???
Message has been deleted
Ecnerwal
Sep 14, 2011, 9:28:18 AM9/14/11
to
Bruce Bergman <bruceb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50
> Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V
> option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.
>
> And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole
> SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.
There are lots of small diesel units for sailboats available. They are
> Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50
> Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V
> option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.
>
> And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole
> SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.
priced like most anything else for sailboats - on the assumption that if
you can pay for a sailboat, you have money to burn...I was looking into
them for my cogeneration system when I thought I was going to be
off-grid and trying to run a shop (no compact florescent lathes, so real
power still required) but it turned out that the crash of 2008 and the
expense of doing a good offgrid system right combined to get me on the
grid after all.
The practical approach on a boat that already has an inverter is to just
use the generator to make DC for the batteries (and run refrigeration
compressors, if desired, and make hot water with its waste heat) and let
the inverter worry about making any 120/240 required. At sailboat prices
you can even get an alternator/throttle controller that will 3-stage
charge the batteries and run the motor slower as less power is called
for.
The Hatz units are loud. I've met a few in person, and I'd be surprised
if the "silent pack" is anything but a misleading name (but I haven't
met one of those, specifically.) They are, however, a pretty reliable
engine, by such reports as I've heard. Some of the other sail-boat units
use tiny watercooled Kubota engines which Kubota doesn't normally import
to the US (thus, I suppose, greymarket as well as with the sailboat
premium price attached.)
What I ended up buying, used, at a more obtanium price, was a Northern
Lights (not to be confused with north star) 3 cyl liquid-cooled diesel
with air-cooled generator end. They come a bit smaller - a friend with
an actual boat has the 6KW version. They are 1800 rpm units, which are a
lot less annoying to be around, and also more likely to make the long
haul than 3600 rpm units. My understanding is that they are domestic
production still, and they have a good reputation for working. Given the
overall reliability of the grid around here, I'm keeping the thing, even
though I got on-grid in the end.
Richard
Sep 14, 2011, 10:02:32 AM9/14/11
to
On 9/14/2011 7:31 AM, John B. wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.hatz-diesel.com/index.php
>>
>> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200310743_200310743
>>
>> And a Hatz 10 electric start used to power a Paceship 25
>> http://paceshipseastwind25.wordpress.com/2010/07/04/inboard-engine-options/
>>
>> Seems like there are a lot of small air cooled diesels used in Asia...
>>
>> How big would that 1800 rpm generator be physically?
>> That sounds sweet (bad pun but true!)
>
> Air cooled diesels (had one) are extremely noisy. One of the added
>
>>
>> http://www.hatz-diesel.com/index.php
>>
>> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200310743_200310743
>>
>> And a Hatz 10 electric start used to power a Paceship 25
>> http://paceshipseastwind25.wordpress.com/2010/07/04/inboard-engine-options/
>>
>> Seems like there are a lot of small air cooled diesels used in Asia...
>>
>> How big would that 1800 rpm generator be physically?
>> That sounds sweet (bad pun but true!)
>
> advantages of a liquid cooling system is it silences a great deal of
> the mechanical noises.
>
> A 9 HP would be about a 5 Kw generator and would be ~about~ 3' X 2 ' X
> 2' if it is on a skid with a frame and fuel tank, electric starter,
> battery, etc.
>
> By the way, hand starting small air cooled diesels with a pull rope is
> a definite art. Do not assume that because you can start a lawnmower
> or an outboard that you will ever get the diesel to go :-)
>
I hear you about the noise (huh?)
But that is an electric start engine.
I wouldn't try to start my Blazer with a rope either!
Richard
Sep 14, 2011, 10:04:09 AM9/14/11
to
Bruce Bergman
Sep 15, 2011, 2:19:59 AM9/15/11
to gunne...@gmail.com
Blowed up the computer that had Agent on it, and didn't bother reloading it as the version I was up to didn't like Vista much. Going through Google Groups just cause I dont have money to toss around on upgrades, work is spotty - But I'm betting you know that tune.
Oh, Richard? I got a one-sentence response from Hatz USA: We are not prepared to sell that model in the USA at this time.
Damn. Looked compact enough to solve a lot of people's problems. And exciter cranking means never hearing someone try to start a running engine and take out the ring gear.
--<< Bruce >>--
Oh, Richard? I got a one-sentence response from Hatz USA: We are not prepared to sell that model in the USA at this time.
Damn. Looked compact enough to solve a lot of people's problems. And exciter cranking means never hearing someone try to start a running engine and take out the ring gear.
--<< Bruce >>--
Richard
Sep 15, 2011, 2:37:44 AM9/15/11
to
O-Kay...
So they reward us evil for good, and hatred for our love.
Appoint a wicked man against them; let an accuser bring them to
trial.
When they are tried, let them come forth guilty; let their prayer be
counted as sin!
May their days be few; may another seize their goods!
May their children be fatherless, and their wives widows!
May their children wander about and beg; may they be driven out of
the ruins they inhabit.
May the creditor seize all that they have; may strangers plunder the
fruits of their toil!
Let there be none to extend kindness to them, nor any to pity their
fatherless children!
May their posterity be cut off; may their names be blotted out in
the second generation!
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