Drill 1/16th inch hole through 8mm stainless steel rod?

[John Doe]

Using ordinary tools, is that realistic?

Talking about an 8mm hole sideways through the rod (from one side to
the other), not down the center of the rod.

Thanks.

[Gunner Asch]

Depends on the "ordinary tools".

But generally speaking..yes it is.

Big problem with using a drill motor is getting the hole spotted. Use
a punch and make a good dimple. Then dont let up on the pressure. A
drill press would be best, with the rod held firmly in a vise mounted
on the drill press table. And use lots of coolant and when you back
out to clear the chips..go back in and dont fart around starting the
cut again.


Gunner

[Richard]

Probably would hurt to have several bits handy... :)
You probably gonna break a couple on this job.

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> fired this volley in news:klkuk2$rio$1
@dont-email.me:

Not only 'realistic', but easy-peasy.
Lloyd

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:u03sn89mddgks3d9t...@4ax.com:

> Use
> a punch and make a good dimple

Didn't he say "stainless", Gunner?

Lloyd

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in
news:8radnfj3ILCAhePM...@earthlink.com:

> Probably would hurt to have several bits handy... :)
> You probably gonna break a couple on this job.

This is not a job for a hand drill.

It's not so much the problem of holding the bit straight, but rather one
of regulating the pressure and cut per tooth... which is difficult to do
by hand with that small a bit and that material (although he didn't say
_what_ stainless..)

Even one of those $29.95 "drill press stands" improves your likelihood of
success, where the speed of feed must be controlled carefully.

As said before -- never let off on the pressure, except by rapidly
retracting the bit. Never allow it to 'idle' on the bottom of the cut,
or you'll work-harden the steel. Prick-punching will also work-harden
it. That might not be a problem with a 1/4" bit, but with a 1/16" drill,
you be hardening almost the entire cutting footprint of the drill.

LLoyd

[Gunner Asch]

Yes he did. He also said 1/16" and 8mm round.

Yes..it will harden a spot. On the other hand..he will bust at least 2
drills before wobbling around and around and finally gumming a spot
almost where he wants it if he doesnt use one.

Id use a center drill to start..but...shrug...does he have one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-COMBINATION-CENTER-DRILL-NEW-B-1-2-6-94-/110983558772

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-5-HS-Lathe-Center-Drills-KEO-RH-Right-Hand-Various-sizes-/300894603710

Id also use my 2800 lb Gorton Mastermill to drill that hole..with the
center drill first up, then the 1/16" drill. I seldom break 1/16"
drill bits. And Ive drilled D2 and Iconell with them nicely.

For those who may not know...Stainless steels tend to harden from
"somewhat" to "Fucking Hard" with impact of a punch or spotter.

303 stainless being "somewhat" and 304 stainless being "Fucking Hard"
as examples. Which Lloyd pointed out.

Unfortunately...we have a gentleman with minimal tools trying to drill
a difficult at best hole in an unknown type of stainless steel.

Keep in mind..that 8mm..is .321 diameter..smaller than 3/8 of an inch.
And we dont know if the OP has the hands of a skilled surgeon or not.


Gunner

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 04:57:39 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
<jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

Why not? Assuming that you have a drill press as with a hand held
drill it might be a problem is your hands shake :-)

More seriously. Set the drill press for the proper cutting speed;
center punch the work or otherwise make a starting "hole"; and feed
just fast enough to cut a continuous chip.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in

news:e3msn8l884te7uj7o...@4ax.com:

> Unfortunately...we have a gentleman with minimal tools trying to drill
> a difficult at best hole in an unknown type of stainless steel.
>
> Keep in mind..that 8mm..is .321 diameter..smaller than 3/8 of an inch.
> And we dont know if the OP has the hands of a skilled surgeon or not.
>

That sounds like an opportunity to acquire some more tools! <G>

LLoyd

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 18:54:11 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:

And use a good quality drill bit designed to cut metal, preferably a
first-world-made cobalt steel stubby, not some POS jobber gold-plated
or black soft steel turdlet drill from a kit (at least the latter
won't snap, but they'll work harden the SS and go downhill from
there).

I'd also put a drop of 3-in-1 or other oil on there, but others may
disagree.

The important thing is to take seriously what others are saying about
not being wimpy about the feed or letting the drill linger at the
bottom to prevent work hardening.

[Jim Wilkins]

"John Doe" <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
news:klkuk2$rio$1...@dont-email.me...

It is, even with a hand drill, if you buy decent drill bits and learn
how to use them. Based on your long history of disagreeing with people
who try to help you that may take hands-on instruction.

[Richard]

I've done this kind of drilling before and nearly always break a bit -
when breaking through the bottom side.

What did I do wrong?

[Wild_Bill]

Yep, absolutely, using quality drills, and even better would be starting
with one ground with a split point for the first thru-hole drill. These
drills begin cutting immediately upon contact with the workpiece.. an
ordinary grind has a center web that must displace metal before cutting
begins, which may be too late for some alloys of stainless steel.

A good method of increasing the hole size when starting with a small pilot
hole, is to choose a larger drill with a web about the same size as the
existing/previous hole.

If one has family or friends working in the trades, they might have some
cutting lubricant they could give away.. which saves going on a quest to
find some, and buying a large amount compared to the few drops that are
needed.
Great stuff to have around though, for any metal cutting task.

--
WB
.........


"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:qq0tn8pmsb1tidtdi...@4ax.com...

[alv...@example.com]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...dont let up on the pressure.
> ...when you back out to clear the chips...

> go back in and dont fart around starting the cut again.
> Gunner

Hey, Gunner :)

My metallurgy teacher said all that too and added that it was
funny to tell a new guy running a bandsaw to "take it easy on
that stainless steel you're fixin' to cut".

Questions:
Do you really need to clear chips on a ~5/16" deep hole?
Or is it just because of the 1/16" drill bit?
Or is it just habit that you mentioned that? ;)

Alvin in AZ

[Stormin Mormon]

Too much feed pressure. When you're almost
through, use very, very light feed pressure.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:xpGdnffHJ4NDFOPM...@earthlink.com...

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in

news:xpGdnffHJ4NDFOPM...@earthlink.com:

> I've done this kind of drilling before and nearly always break a bit -
> when breaking through the bottom side.
>
> What did I do wrong?

When the bit first starts to break through, and when you're applying
down-pressure by hand instead of with a power down-feed, the center of
the bit penetrates the work first, while two "flute sized" hunks of metal
still remain to be cut down by the height of the bevel on the bit.

When the bit slips down, the flutes grab on those two 'wings' and wrench
the bit off (or spin the work, if you're one of those "hold it by hand"
guys).

With a hand fed drill press, there are two ways to beat it:

One is to clamp the work tightly to a waste sheet of similar material,
and drill through both -- not so easy with round stock.

The other is to carefully set the depth-stop on the press so that the bit
cannot penetrate further than the shoulders of the bit. That way, it'll
stop JUST before it grabs.

In either case, you've got to securely clamp the work to the table so it
cannot climb the bit as it penetrates (and for your own safety).

LLoyd

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> fired this volley in
news:xExft.245235$iK6....@fed11.iad:

> Too much feed pressure. When you're almost
> through, use very, very light feed pressure.

If he's drilling #304, that's an invitation to smoke the bit -- without
breaking it. As soon as it starts to "skate" under light pressure, it'll
work-harden the metal, dull the cutter, and end up making lots of smoke
and noise; and go nowhere.

And it likely will ruin the hole so you can't get anything else through
it except carbide.

LLoyd

[Jim Wilkins]

<alv...@Example.com> wrote in message
news:klm8kc$t1r$2...@reader1.panix.com...

My practice is to keep drilling while the chips flow out freely, but
stop frequently to brush them off the bit if they don't, because they
can jam and break the bit.

I don't extract the bit completely so that small chips won't fall in
and land under the cutting edge.

If the chips come out in continuous strings I relax most of the feed
pressure briefly when they reach a couple of inches long, to break
them so they don't wind into a spinning, sharp-edged blob. I used to
raise the bit but found that unnecessary unless the chips aren't
feeding up the spiral.
jsw

[Richard]

I've been doing all that, Lloyd.
Except for setting the depth-stop.
I'll try that nest time.

What I finally did get to work fairly well was to insert the tube I
was drilling inside the next size tube and drill both.

I still broke the bit. :(
But the hole in the the actual part I was making survived.

Drilling these small holes in stainless is a trip.

[Richard]

Yeah. One of my old quotes,
"aluminum will cut you, but steel will make you bleed"...

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in news:eZ-
dnVoOoJWqKePMn...@earthlink.com:

> What I finally did get to work fairly well was to insert the tube I
> was drilling inside the next size tube and drill both.

If they fit well enough to prevent the smaller tube from 'climbing', and if
you don't drill all the way through the 4th wall.

LLoyd

[alv...@example.com]

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

> When the bit slips down, the flutes grab...

>
> One is to clamp the work tightly to a waste sheet of similar

> material...
> LLoyd

x2 the whole post. :)

Gunner, eatch-your heart out looking at these babies... ;)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/drills.jpg

Single speed 1000 and 1200 rpm hand drills that I use a light dimmer
(or ceiling fan*) speed control to set the "power" and when it goes
to dempling the bottom of the material, the speed reduces and you
left off downward pressure before the bit grabs. :)

I drill through all sorts of stuff using that method and it works
great. :)

And don't tell me you can't drill down through the middle of a pin
or something like that. You can drive a vehicle at 80mph between 2
semi's on the freeway but can't steer a drill bit? ;)

The two rings were pulled off the M42 3/32" drill bit...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/SAK3.jpg
...check out how crooked the nickel-silver pins were too. :)

If this dumb retired ditch digger can do it so can you.

Alvin in AZ

*Basically the same thing except the fan speed control clicks from
off to full-blast then decreases speed as you turn it further.

The light dimmer clicks over to basically~off then increases as you
turn it up.

[James Waldby]

To avoid some already-mentioned problems -- such as work-hardening the
stainless steel due to center-punching, or work-hardening it due to the
bit skating around while trying to start the hole, or breaking bits
while starting, or breaking bits on punch-thru -- you could make a
work-holding / drill-guiding fixture.

Start with a chunk of metal (eg a steel cube 3/4" to 1" inch on a side).
Drill an 8mm hole from one face to the opposite face. Drill a 1/16"
hole to meet the 8mm hole on centerline. With a rod inserted through
the hole and the fixture clamped in a vise, you can apply adequate
down-pressure to avoid work hardening, without needing to release
pressure when the drill bit is almost through. (If you are drilling
multiple holes in the rod, it only solves the problem for the first,
unless you have multiple 1/16" guide holes in the fixture.)

--
jiw

[alv...@example.com]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Yeah. One of my old quotes,
> "aluminum will cut you, but steel will make you bleed"...

Never heard that before.

I'm old, I take 81mg Aspirin, I get cut or scratched, I bleed. xD

-----------------------

Was "hand" drilling vehicle leaf springs with a ~7/16" drill bit
and making up to three foot coils of -spring- steel, it was cool! :)

I deeply countersunk the holes, hammered down a steel rod peening
it out until the hole and countersinks were completely filled.

Made the leaf spring clamps from 3" square tubing... :)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/clamp.jpg

Double nutted the 3/8" bolt and that's 3/8" fuel hose.
Wow, that was >11 years ago and they still look like new. :)

Alvin in AZ

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:53:48 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

You havent done enough of it to learn "feel". Thats all.

[Gunner Asch]

Indeed!!

[Gunner Asch]

As a rule...stainless steel chips tend to be a bit "gummy" and tend to
block the clearance of the bit. Given the small diameter of the
flutes...it may or may not pack the flutes. So a quick up and back
tends to get rid of them. Keep in mind..that you are going nearly 5
diameters (of the bit) deep... and there is some additional cooling of
the bit, however quick...when you "peck" drill.

I work in commercial machine shops..keeping machines alive and
running..and "pecking" is something that is almost always programmed
into the CNC program when the holes are more than 2-3 diameters
deep...particularly when working with "gummy" materials.

Do as you see fit..but its a strong suggestion. That bit is
afterall..only 1/16 of an inch in diameter.

Another poster also mentioned short drill bits. Yes indeed! The
shorter the better. Keep in mind..that any drill can be considered a
very fragile "spring"..so keep em short..keeps them stiffer and less
likely to snap.

What you really need are "screw machine" drill bits. They are half the
length (more or less) of standard "jobber" drill bits and as a
result..are stiffer and less likely to snap. Just remember...some
screw machine bits are left handed..so if you get some..examine them
closely and if using a hand drill..simply run em backwards.

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

Well..there is always EDM

<G>

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

One can always make up a fixture using drill bushings

http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/index.cfm/26805071f0b021118070c1c510d020609090c0015480013180b041d1e173c1b08535246

If one were drilling enough holes to warrant the cost of the
additional materials and the extra labor

For one (1) hole....it may..may be a bit much.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Apr 29, 10:33 am, Spehro Pefhany

<speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:


> I'd also put a drop of 3-in-1 or other oil on there, but others may
> disagree.
>

I don't disagree. Any oil is better than none.

Dan

[Spehro Pefhany]

The other thing I like about oil is that it lets me know when things
are getting hot by smoking. The sound will sort of tell you too, but
it takes a few times of getting it wrong.

[Richard]

IT worked, but I didn't set the depth-stop.
So I'll do it the way you suggested next time.

[Richard]

I didn't have enough drill bits for that lesson. :)

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 04:49:58 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>

There is that too. Shrug

If you listen/feel carefuly..you will notice a change in
sound/vibration just before breakthrough...99.9% of the time.

Tune yourself for that "change" and at that point...back off a smidge

Ive hand drilled so many holes over the years with a drill motor..that
its become automatic for me. Tune your brain for it..and you will very
seldom ever break a bit. That and keeping the drill/motor in line.

<G>
It even works in wood.

Gunner

[Jim Wilkins]

<dca...@krl.org> wrote in message
news:25d26dd3-f1f6-4fb0...@b2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

On Apr 29, 10:33 am, Spehro Pefhany
<speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:


> I'd also put a drop of 3-in-1 or other oil on there, but others may
> disagree.
>

-I don't disagree. Any oil is better than none.

Dan

Pipe threading oil from the BORG is as good as most.

[John B.]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:53:48 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

You didn't "lighten up" :-)

As the drill point breaks through the bottom of the work the area of
the drill point that is opposed by metal decreases, thus the pressure
(in PSI) increases unless you reduce pressure on the drill press
handle...

--
Cheers,

John B.

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:02:13 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

"Its a simple procedure involving lasers."
"Coool!"


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

[Richard]

Oh, I know what you mean, Gunner.
And with larger bits I can do just that.

But a 1/16" diameter bit through stainless tube?
No, it just happens to quick.
I guess it's because the flutes are so tiny?

[Richard]

Granted - most of the time - John.
But with 1/16" diameter bits, well . . .

[John Doe]

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com>

>> Too much feed pressure. When you're almost
>> through, use very, very light feed pressure.
>
> If he's drilling #304, that's an invitation to smoke the bit --
> without breaking it. As soon as it starts to "skate" under
> light pressure, it'll work-harden the metal, dull the cutter,
> and end up making lots of smoke and noise; and go nowhere.

That sounds almost as fun as metal splinters.

So much for my idea of upgrading my inline skating grocery cart
with a stainless steel axle. After watching some videos on Youtube
of smoke (while using a lubricant) coming out of the stainless
steel, I just put the old steel axle back in place. I needed to
upgrade the wheels, add some stuff, and clean it anyway.





--
Thanks to the replies.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"John Doe" <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message news:klkuk2$rio$1...@dont-email.me...

> Using ordinary tools, is that realistic?
>
> Talking about an 8mm hole sideways through the rod (from one side to
> the other), not down the center of the rod.
>
>

Piece of cake.

[Richard]

On 4/29/2013 1:35 PM, alv...@Example.com wrote:
> Richard<cave...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Yeah. One of my old quotes,
>> "aluminum will cut you, but steel will make you bleed"...
>
> Never heard that before.
>

That's because I just told it to you, Alvin.

You know it's true, though. :)

[alv...@example.com]

John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

> So much for my idea of upgrading my inline skating grocery
> cart with a stainless steel axle.

Yeah but. ;)

Stainless steel ain't an upgrade! LOL :)

Stainless steel is for -corrosion- -resistance-.
It's quick to gall and has other bad properties.
Not always but it's usually soft, like your 304.

----------------------

Picture the perfect cake recipe. :)

Add four times too much of one of the ingredients so the cake won't
rust. Only if you want non-rusting cake, is stainless steel a good
idea. xD

For knife blades it's crap. :)

Alvin in AZ

[alv...@example.com]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> IT worked, but I didn't set the depth-stop.
> So I'll do it the way you suggested next time.

Cool, R. :)

I did something different today. Switched from drilling 9/16" holes
with a round-shanked-bit to 5/8" holes with a tri-cut-shanked-bit.

Wow! Was it easier! Drill bit hit those left over hunks and sheared
'em off like it meant business. None of that frustrating drill bit
stopping and pulling the drill and and starting over ten times crap.

:)

Alvin in AZ

[alv...@example.com]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Do you really need to clear chips on a ~5/16" deep hole?
> >Or is it just because of the 1/16" drill bit?
>

> I work in commercial machine shops..keeping machines alive and
> running..and "pecking" is something that is almost always
> programmed into the CNC program when the holes are more than 2-3
> diameters deep...particularly when working with "gummy" materials.

> Gunner

Cool, thanks for that. :)

Alvin in AZ

[Richard]

Another thanks

[alv...@example.com]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Yeah. One of my old quotes,

> > Never heard that before.
> That's because I just told it to you, Alvin.
> You know it's true, though. :)

---> my <---

Didn't see that until now. LOL :)

Butthead in AZ

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2013-04-29, Wild_Bill <wb_wi...@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> Yep, absolutely, using quality drills, and even better would be starting
> with one ground with a split point for the first thru-hole drill. These
> drills begin cutting immediately upon contact with the workpiece.. an
> ordinary grind has a center web that must displace metal before cutting
> begins, which may be too late for some alloys of stainless steel.

They are great -- but my sets of bits supplies ground with split
points all stop being split point about one size above 1/16", so I did
not bother posting to mention that option.

> A good method of increasing the hole size when starting with a small pilot
> hole, is to choose a larger drill with a web about the same size as the
> existing/previous hole.

Yep.

> If one has family or friends working in the trades, they might have some
> cutting lubricant they could give away.. which saves going on a quest to
> find some, and buying a large amount compared to the few drops that are
> needed.
> Great stuff to have around though, for any metal cutting task.

Indeed so.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Richard]

Pass it on, if you wish... :)

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 02:38:38 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
<jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

>"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com>
>
>>> Too much feed pressure. When you're almost
>>> through, use very, very light feed pressure.
>>
>> If he's drilling #304, that's an invitation to smoke the bit --
>> without breaking it. As soon as it starts to "skate" under
>> light pressure, it'll work-harden the metal, dull the cutter,
>> and end up making lots of smoke and noise; and go nowhere.
>
>That sounds almost as fun as metal splinters.
>
>So much for my idea of upgrading my inline skating grocery cart
>with a stainless steel axle. After watching some videos on Youtube
>of smoke (while using a lubricant) coming out of the stainless
>steel, I just put the old steel axle back in place. I needed to
>upgrade the wheels, add some stuff, and clean it anyway.

there is always 303 or 316 stainless.

there is an old machinist mantra:

"303..thats for me!
304..shes a whore!!"

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:23:31 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>

Actually...you just havent developed "the touch" well enough.

Seriously.

Gunner

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:24:19 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>

It is all relative Richard. Little drill - you don't push very hard.
Big drills you do.

When I was Edwards AFB the guys in the Experimental Shop made some
1/1000th inch drill bits and drilled holes in some thin brass shim
stock..... now that took some finesse :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[gerald...@yahoo.ca]

Couple years ago,Juniors FiL sent in a bucket of drill bits for the DD
treatment. One caught my eye; apparently a 1/2" carbide bit that had
lost it's bite and been re-ground in desperation. I carefully
sharpened it to the proper geometry and keenly sharp lips, then
drilled a 1/16" hole through the web and attached a tag reading "DRILL
SHAPED OBJECT - USE ONLY FOR MAKING HOLES IN ROOM TEMPERATURE BUTTER"
From all reports, Larry totaly lost it when he saw the tag.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada