3D Revolution?

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Darren Harris

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Nov 7, 2021, 10:31:03 AM11/7/21
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I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?

It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.

I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Jim Wilkins

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Nov 7, 2021, 12:15:19 PM11/7/21
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"Darren Harris" wrote in message
news:10b2ff85-ae94-4fbf...@googlegroups.com...
----------------------------

I keep looking at them, but for the mainly tools and machine parts I make
their plastic can't replace metal.

A machine that makes durable rubber parts like seals might be more useful to
me.

Bob La Londe

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Nov 7, 2021, 12:58:26 PM11/7/21
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My son has 3 (yes 3) 3D printers. Resin Printer, higher resolution
resin printer, and filament printer. He primarily prints gaming
miniatures. (He plays two regular D&D games a week (runs one). Once in
a while he has somebody pay him to run a print, but its not common.
Maybe half dozen times a year. He rather enjoys painting the
miniatures, and he's getting good at it. He's won more than a couple
painting contests. He claims being able to create and print his own
fantasy pieces costs less than buying them. I've paid him (bought
materials and made sure there was plenty left over) to run a few jobs
for me. One was to run a filament print of a 1911 receiver. I didn't
plan to use it. I wanted to test a file before using it to machine a
receiver. I still do not know if the file is good or not. Between
shrinkage and distortion it was not great. I know people actual print
and use receivers, but I'll probably fall back on old school measure and
index methods from a sample piece when I get around to that project.

On another project I had him print some master molds. Basically a mold
box, master (1/2 master), sprue, vents, and alignment registers in a
single print. This allowed me to make silicone molds in multiples for
casting resin parts. This actually worked fairly well, but we ran
through a few iterations, to get it right.

I do not know about cost effective, but it does not seem to be time
effective. All of those prints I had him do for me took a while. It
didn't cost ME much, but he spent some time getting them ready to print
after I the CAD files in some cases.

I have one customer who makes accessories for gaming miniatures. I make
injection molds for him. The cost of a mold is fairly high, but the
cost per part is very low.

In conclusion I think:

1. If you are prototyping it "might" be useful by itself, but going
from one process to another accounting for variations int he process
like shrinkage and distortion it might take away from that.

2. It can be useful as part of another process as in my master molds to
make molds to make parts.

3. To make a single part if you can do it within your allowable
tolerances its cheaper than making a mold to make a part.

4. Its not fast, but if you can walk away and work on something else it
might be ok.

5. Those are not the only types of 3D printing. There is a 3D printer
on the International Space Station they use to print tools they didn't
know they were going to need.

6. Like making a part on the lathe or mill to finish a project on
Saturday, printing a part on the printer may allow you finish your
project instead of waiting until Monday to order the part you need.

Overall I am not convinced I need one, but I am convinced that they can
be useful in the broad scope of things.

Just My Not So Humble Opinion

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John Doe

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Nov 7, 2021, 11:15:18 PM11/7/21
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I agree with most of what Bob La Londe said, but there will be no figurines
printed on my 3D printer!

I'm not a metalworker, I use aluminum occasionally, but I have had a 3D
printer for about one year. Love it!

Yes, it's not metal, it's plastic (many different types of plastic). The
other drawback is that you must print from the ground up. Some say you can
get around that, but I haven't tried. In other words, printing bridges is
difficult because there is nothing to support the extruded plastic. Still,
you can design around that limitation and print most things.

If you love science, a 3D printer is for you. There is a steep learning
curve. Lots of trial and error.

When I need parts to fit, I just design and print those fitting parts of the
part until they are correct. You can't get super precision, given the fact
plastics shrink a tiny bit when cooling. Instead of trying to use the slicer
to compensate for that shrinkage, I just add some to the design here and
there.

I think "3D Fusion" is about the only way to go. It does all of the design
and then sends the file to your slicer. You can find some help on YouTube,
it's popular.

When the file is sent to your slicer program, one settings difference is
"retraction" that depends on whether you have a "Bowden" or a "direct
drive" 3D printer. There is very little instruction about that on the
Internet, but if your printer is direct drive, it requires very little
retraction compared to a Bowden printer.

Apparently... The benefit of a Bowden printer is that the printhead
machinery is light so it can be slung around easily and quickly. The benefit
of direct drive is that you can print better, a wider selection of plastic
filament, at slower speeds.

My old plastic shower knob just broke where it keys onto the valve shaft.
Printed a replacement shower knob. Probably the most useful thing so far. It
also excels at printing washers, spacers, rod spinners (I don't have a
lathe), and lots of other little parts usable for making low stress things.

My print area is only 6" x 6", but that's fine here so far.

Make sure it's easy to return. As I'm sure everybody here knows, the shaft
tolerances that guide the printhead, the rails, must be precise in order for
the printing to be precise. It must be of decent quality.

John Doe

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Nov 7, 2021, 11:24:34 PM11/7/21
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*Fusion 360
not "3D Fusion"

You must reregister once per year (so I have been at it for over a year), but
that program is free for casual use. They make sure you are not using it as a
professional. Of course I don't know how that applies to anybody else.

fos

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Nov 8, 2021, 11:36:42 AM11/8/21
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On 2021-11-07, Darren Harris <jamesja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?

Company I work for has metal and plastic 3d printers. The plastic one is
used strictly for prototyping and occupies a desk in engineering. The metal
printer has increased the workload of the machine tools since there is
always secondary machining to be done on the parts. Most of the metal that
gets printed is titanium, stainless steel, and some aluminum with internal
passages. Parts that if they were to be mass produced even at low
quantities, would be much less costly to produce as castings and have
the same amount of machining needed.

> It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.

Resin for plastic printers is cheap. The aforementioned metal powders are quite
the opposite to the extreme.

> I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.

3d printing close tolerances aren't yet achievable in metal or plastic.
Since this technology has been through several decades of evolution and
refinement, since the creation of stereolithography in the 1980's to be
specific, I think is is very unlikely it will be in the the foreseeable
future. Therefore machining is going to continue, for the time being, to
supplement 3d printing, not be marginalized by it.

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Cydrome Leader

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Nov 18, 2021, 6:20:05 PM11/18/21
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last year I received some 3d printed parts like trim caps for assemblies
made of unistrut. Yeah, not as pretty as the real parts, but included with
the parts was a note from the manufacturer blaming supply chain issues and
even apologizing if the colors of the caps were not black as expected.
Mine were black so maybe times were real tough at the plant with getting
"nuts and bolts" type components to complete orders.

I're sure if I was a real whiner I could probably still request the
correct plastic caps, so in this case, I guess a 3D printer kept the plant
running and orders shipping.

Spehro Pefhany

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Nov 29, 2021, 9:58:55 AM11/29/21
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I have two filament printers and an (as-yet unused) resin printer and
curing setup. I've almost entirely printed PLA, with a tiny bit of
ABS. PLA filament is cheap.

Found lots of uses for the printers in making fixtures and jigs for
PCBs and prototype setups. Some things I could make on a mill with
DRO and they'd be much prettier but wouldn't work much better and it
would take much more time (iterations are very costly on a manual
mill). Different uses than I expected.

Occasionally small housings for internal use. A solder fume extractor
made from a salvaged fan and Aliexpress filter material- total cost a
few dollars. Needed a special pin spanner wrench that was infinite
lead time so I prototyped it in PLA, tweaked it and made it (once) of
aluminum and steel. Have made spare parts for a few things where the
part got broken or lost. When the part was lost it really helps to be
able to iterate since the first part you come up with may not be
ideal.

You can insert metal threaded inserts, bearings, nuts etc. to make the
material characteristics less limiting (and, make no mistake, PLA FDM
prints are nasty and crude - think 0.5mm tolerance- and weak- and
generally lack electrical specifications). PLA is also limited in
temperature range. You can apparently make lost-whatever castings of
metal. There are YT videos showing the process.

I almost invariably do a CAD model first so the 3D print 'cost' is
mostly just filament (cheap) and (clock, not human) time. The prints
are usually just as good printed with low infill (honeycomb interior,
not solid) so they are much lighter than they look.

I would say though that if you don't speak parametric 3D CAD fluently
then a 3D printer would not be so useful.

--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
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