Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
ant3...@yahoo.com
bushing
for a grinder wheel.
This 4 jaw came with the lathe, and was looking at the jaws, and they
looked like brand new. I thought "wow you got a pretty nice chuck with
this lathe"
I dialed the stock in real nice, within 2-3 mils,was running real
nice,
think it was some cold rolled stock.
anyways, took the OD down a little too far, so I moved the piece out
about an inch to start over, was dialing it in, had it pretty close,
was trying to move it a little, guess I did crank down on it pretty
good, but I thought you should be able to.
Well I heard something snap, and the jaw would not tighten down any
more,just spinning.
There is no name on the chuck that I can see, I have enclosed some
links to pictures. First 2 show the front and back of the chuck,
second two show the broken jaw next to a good one, and the other shows
what I thought to be the jaws looking almost new. The piece dialed in
read nice and straight, and looked like the jaws contacted the stock
nicely.
Sort of seems like a weird jaw, the screw in the chuck does not mesh
with teeth on the jaw, but the screw sort of rides between two notches
in the back of the jaw.
Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still
get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck?
Thanks, Tony
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg
Snag
Your images have all apparently been deleted ...
--
Snag
Wes
>Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still
>get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck?
>Thanks, Tony
>http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg
>http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg
>http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg
>http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg
Tony, if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
ant3...@yahoo.com
> "ant30...@yahoo.com" <ant30...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still
> >get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck?
> >Thanks, Tony
>
>
> Wes
Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better
Thanks, Tony
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/BkJaw009.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/BkJaw008.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/BkJaw003.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/BkJaw005.jpg
engineman
lathe.
| Scott Logan - ssl "at" lathe.com |
| Logan Actuator Co. http://www.lathe.com |
| Harvard, IL |
|++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|
| Parts and Accessories for Logan Lathes and |
| Montgomery Wards Lathes |
| Logan-Lilly Mine Hoist Safety Controllers
Engineman
On Oct 10, 9:58�pm, "ant30...@yahoo.com" <ant30...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 10, 7:52�pm, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > "ant30...@yahoo.com" <ant30...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still
> > >get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck?
> > >Thanks, Tony
>
> > Tony, �if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links.
>
> > Wes
>
> Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better
> Thanks, Tony
>
Wes
Is there a threaded piece that rides between the ears?
One thought would be to silver braze the ear back on.
Wes
Uffe B�rentsen
<ant3...@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:9366c19b-b119-4f8c...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
Don't know if it will be of any help at all.
But the story is that I have a similar chuck (looks almost identical :-)
Mine is for a South Bend 9"
On the back of mine there are something written in the casting.
There are 4 "hollows":
1: 646-1
2: ?arrow, pointing towards the outside edge of the chuck
3: 5678
4: empty
I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company:
http://www.packardmachinery.com/
If they are able to help or not I hvae no idea.
--
Uffe B�rentsen
Denmark
ant3...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> > Wes
> I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company:http://www.packardmachinery.com/
> If they are able to help or not I hvae no idea.
>
> --
> Denmark
Thanks, to all.................................
Uffe, I will look for that company.
Wes, Yes that is exzactly the way it works.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/Jaw1.jpg
Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my
chuck.
Made In U.S.A
Buck Tool Co.
Kalamazoo
444
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/ChuckID004.jpg
Thanks, Tony
Snag
> On Oct 11, 7:43 am, "Uffe B�rentsen" <leiti_NOSP...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> Wes
>> I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this
>> company:http://www.packardmachinery.com/ If they are able to help or
>> not I hvae no idea.
>>
>> --
>> Denmark
>
> Thanks, to all.................................
> Uffe, I will look for that company.
> Wes, Yes that is exzactly the way it works.
> http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/Jaw1.jpg
>
> Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my
> chuck.
> Made In U.S.A
> Buck Tool Co.
> Kalamazoo
> 444
> http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/ChuckID004.jpg
>
> Thanks, Tony
So it would appear that the chuck I have , which is labelled as a Logan , is
actually made by Buck .
Interesting ...
--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF
ant3...@yahoo.com
> ant30...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Oct 11, 7:43 am, "Uffe Bærentsen" <leiti_NOSP...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>> Wes
> >> I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this
> >> not I have no idea.
>
> >> --
> >> Uffe Bærentsen
> >> Denmark
>
> > Thanks, to all.................................
> > Uffe, I will look for that company.
> >http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20f...
>
> > Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my
> > chuck.
> > Made In U.S.A
> > Buck Tool Co.
> > Kalamazoo
> > 444
>
> > Thanks, Tony
>
> So it would appear that the chuck I have , which is labeled as a Logan , is
> actually made by Buck .
> Interesting ...
>
> --
> Snag
> "90 FLHTCU "Strider"
> '39 WLDD "PopCycle"
Yeah, Think it was on the Logan FAQ where I read
that...........................Yes here it
is.............................
2.11. Where can I get new jaws or different jaws to
fit my old Logan chuck?
2.11.. Before you buy used chuck jaws sight-unseen, you need to
know that there are hundreds, if not thousands of different jaw
sizes. It is nearly impossible to find replacement jaws for a
particular chuck unless you go right to the chuck manufacturer. Logan
chucks were made by Buck, now Buck Forkardt. Buck Forkardt is not set
up to support home shop machinists. Their prices for replacement
parts are astronomical. It would be less expensive to buy a new
imported chuck than to buy new jaws.
Logan Actuator Co. sells new chucks, made by Bison. These are high
quality chucks, made in Europe and are great investments for your
Lathe.
Don't look good as far as finding a replacement jaw(s). Seems a shame,
as this chuck looks to be in good shape otherwise. would like to get
one of the Bison's, but like I said, I'm not really looking to spend
that kind of money for a chuck.
At this point I did turn the jaws around as mentioned at the yahoo
group.
As JT stated at the Logan group, might be best to "bury" the stock
into the chuck to the jaws are fully supported. If you look at your
chuck, you'll see what he meant.
**Quoted from "JT", Logan Yahoo group**
"That particular style you can ONLY tighten hard if the stock goes
down over
the full jaw length at least. That way the "tab" is being forced into
the
work as well as the rest of the jaw, and the stresses on the "tab" are
less.
If you have to "nip" the stock, it is subject to breaking that "tab"
off."
Thanks, Tony
David Billington
machined a new jaw from O-1 plate. Been working fine for the last 15
years IIRC.
ant3...@yahoo.com
<d...@djbillington.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> The same thing happened on a mates 4 jaw and as it's inpedendant he
> machined a new jaw from O-1 plate. Been working fine for the last 15
Yes that would be an option, but I do not have a mill.
Thanks, Tony
Snag
Well , dang it , now y'all got me ponderin' . How about a set of "master
jaws" , that a soft jaw can be bolted to ? As I mentioned over in the Logan
group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ...
ant3...@yahoo.com
> Well , dang it , now y'all got me ponderin' . How about a set of "master
> jaws" , that a soft jaw can be bolted to ? As I mentioned over in the Logan
> group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ...
>
> --
> Snag
> "90 FLHTCU "Strider"
> '39 WLDD "PopCycle"
> BS 132/SENS/DOF
As I mentioned over in the Logan
> group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ...
>
Dont think it was approved yet.
Might see what the welder at work has to say..............
Thanks Tony
Leon Fisk
"ant3...@yahoo.com" <ant3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Might see what the welder at work has to say..............
>Thanks Tony
Might want to consider/thinking about drilling & pinning
too. You have a lot of material to work with on the main
side. This should help with the braze/weld repair.
You might get away with one or two recessed cap screws also.
Two grade 8 cap screws set side by side would be pretty
strong, especially with maybe 3/4 inch or so of threads
caught in the main jaw area.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
ant3...@yahoo.com
> >Might see what the welder at work has to say..............
> >Thanks Tony
On Oct 11, 4:30 pm, Leon Fisk <lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote:
> Might want to consider/thinking about drilling & pinning
> too. You have a lot of material to work with on the main
> side. This should help with the braze/weld repair.
>
> You might get away with one or two recessed cap screws also.
> Two grade 8 cap screws set side by side would be pretty
> strong, especially with maybe 3/4 inch or so of threads
> caught in the main jaw area.
>
> --
For drilling & pinning, would I use some drill rod and make the hole
slightly smaller then press it together, then V it out and weld?
Regarding one or two recessed cap screws , are you talking in place of
the broken piece?
This guy at work is a pretty good welder, but he does more like
fabrication and welding on snow plows and tractors,and the like, don't
know how he is on little precise stuff.
Thanks, Tony
Jim Wilkins
MSC sells them:
<http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4465242&PMT4NO=72243659>
That's one of the less expensive models.
jsw
Snag
Jim , I can screw up a lot of steel , and still manage to make a usable set
for a LOT less than $571.36 . Come to think about it , those might not ba as
hard as I thought . Real precision is needed at the slot , but the rest
doesn't need all that tight a tolerance - after all , they're adjusted
independently ... and I could make them with a bit more meat at the tabs .
Scott Logan said over at the Lathe List that Buck was mighty proud of
their replacement parts . Looks like he's right on the money . Once again .
--
Snag
Now where did I
put that piece
of 4140 ...
DoN. Nichols
> ant3...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Well was working with the Logan a little today, wanted to make a
>> bushing
[ ... ]
>> Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still
>> get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck?
>> Thanks, Tony
>> http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg
>> http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg
>> http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg
>> http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg
>
> Your images have all apparently been deleted ...
Actually -- his ISP has decided to "protect" him by taking out
part of the URLs -- note the "c...t", which should have something else
(and likely longer) between the 'c' and the 't'.
Until he can manage to post the entire URL around his ISP's
"helpful" security, you won't see his images.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
DoN. Nichols
O.K. I've seen this design used before, usually on fairly small
4-jaw chucks. It has the advantage of being the easiest style of jaw to
make in the home shop, so you should be able to make your own
replacement jaws.
However -- it looks as though this was either cast iron
(machined to size and shape) or hardened and not tempered steel, so it
broke under stress. If you make the jaw of a hardenable steel, leave a
little extra slop in the groves because it will grow slightly from the
hardening process. Then, using a torch with most of the jaw submerged,
draw the temper of the overhangs which the screw bears upon.
Jim Wilkins
I made a set of independent jaws to fit the tee slots in a rotary
table. That is a fairly simple shape to machine but they were hard to
finish accurately because a micrometer won't get into the chuck body
slot and dial calipers aren't quite good enough for a light press fit.
I surface-ground the outside to make them go back into the mill vise
as repeatably as possible after testing the fit and still had to
adjust the slots with a fine file, using the disappearing tool marks
to cut the same amount all over.
jsw
Leon Fisk
"ant3...@yahoo.com" <ant3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>For drilling & pinning, would I use some drill rod and make the hole
>slightly smaller then press it together, then V it out and weld?
>Regarding one or two recessed cap screws , are you talking in place of
>the broken piece?
>This guy at work is a pretty good welder, but he does more like
>fabrication and welding on snow plows and tractors,and the like, don't
>know how he is on little precise stuff.
>Thanks, Tony
I suspect that these are cast iron, kinda doubt if steel
would have broke off like that. Could be wrong (shrug). If
they are cast it will be difficult to get a weld that is as
strong as it was originally, which you broke.
If you try use pins be really careful not to force them too
much or you could crack something else (assuming this is
cast iron). I would just use some steel like grade 2 or 5 in
bolts.
I would be tempted to try maybe three recessed cap screws
something like this (used your good jaw image to show how it
would look when done):
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/bkjaw003_idea.jpg
Be careful to observe how much area there is where I made an
orange circle (on both sides). Easy to forget about the
groove. Position the yellow areas so that you still have
plenty of sidewall where you will be making threads.
See what your welder says first, remember you can always
grind and file some if he gets too carried away.
Curious to hear if he (welder) thinks it is cast iron or
not...
ant3...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:53:41 -0700 (PDT),
>
I See. I'll let him look at it. I think it might be hard for *me*to do
the drilling, recessing,
tapping and bolting repair, but I think it would be a strong one if I
could do it.
We are talking a pretty small piece that is broken off here. Would
need some awful tiny cap screws.
We do have a machine shop that does make and repair things for us, but
not sure if he would want to fool with it. Maybe I can have him look
at it next time I get to go down there.
Thanks, Tony
Jim Wilkins
> We do have a machine shop that does make and repair things for us, but
> not sure if he would want to fool with it. Maybe I can have him look
> at it next time I get to go down there.
> Thanks, Tony-
You might be able to salvage the chuck by reversing the jaw and
filling in the stepped side with a screwed-on block. I would reverse
all of them and make the blocks out of aluminum, since you know the
chuck isn't suited to heavy work.
jsw
ant3...@yahoo.com
Thanks To All,
Yes that's an Idea too, I was able to turn them all around and use it
like that,In order to take the rest of the stock down too far
also........LOL
The jaws are not as deep though.
Thanks, Tony
Jon Elson
> Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my
> chuck.
> Made In U.S.A
> Buck Tool Co.
> Kalamazoo
> 444
Yow, that's amazing! Buck made some VERY fine
chucks that ran to several thousand $! This is
obviously not one of those, however. It looks to
be a REALLY
weak design. If you ever chuck up work shorter
than the depth of the jaws, it
puts extreme force on that lip at the back of the
jaw. I have had several independent 4-jaws over
the years, and they all had a decent length of
half-screw
thread on the back of the jaw, and the screw had a
notched-down section that rode in a ring in the
chuck body to act as a thrust collar.
Anyway, it appears to be a one-piece, screw-on
chuck, it shouldn't be too hard to find a
replacement. I fear that any attempt to fix that
jaw is going to be a real stop-gap measure that
won't hold.
Jon
DoN. Nichols
> ant3...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my
>> chuck.
>> Made In U.S.A
>> Buck Tool Co.
>> Kalamazoo
>> 444
> Yow, that's amazing! Buck made some VERY fine
> chucks that ran to several thousand $! This is
> obviously not one of those, however. It looks to
> be a REALLY
> weak design. If you ever chuck up work shorter
> than the depth of the jaws, it
> puts extreme force on that lip at the back of the
> jaw. I have had several independent 4-jaws over
> the years, and they all had a decent length of
> half-screw
> thread on the back of the jaw, and the screw had a
> notched-down section that rode in a ring in the
> chuck body to act as a thrust collar.
I've had and used a third design, too. The screw is notched in
the center, but that engages a half-bearing formed by a projection from
the back of the chuck jaw, and the screw travels in a tapped hole in the
chuck body instead.
Enjoy,
ant3...@yahoo.com
> If you ever chuck up work shorter
>than the depth of the jaws, it
>puts extreme force on that lip at the back of the
<jaw.
>
Thanks again to all.
I think that is "key" here.
I know it's not the best chuck in the world, but it should meet my
needs (light duty, occasional use)
I did not know about the above fact,as this was the first time I had
used it.
> Anyway, it appears to be a one-piece, screw-on
> chuck, it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement. I fear that any attempt to fix that
> jaw is going to be a real stop-gap measure that
> won't hold.
>
> Jon
I would like to find a replacement jaw, but not having any luck.
Any and all leads welcome.
Oh, I think you meant a replacement chuck?
Thanks, Tony