Mead advice needed
barn...@ureach.com
I've been brewing beer all grain for more than 10 yrs. I have made the
occasional mead, boil method, with mixed results. My goal is to make
sparkling mead champagne.
Today, I tried the non-boil method 1st time. 1 gal honey, 4 gal water,
5 camden tablets. Very difficult to mix in carboy and camden tablets
won't dissolve. I had thought to let this sulfite for 24 hrs, then
pitch a batch of D-47 from a starter. But, if camden tablets don't
dissolve, this creates a potential problem
What should I do?
Roger
barn...@ureach.com
Roger
Steve Peek
<barn...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:9c3d0160-9917-45f1...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
Don't worry, pitch the yeast. I've made many award winning batches without
heat or campden.
Steve
Doug Freyburger
>
> Today, I tried the non-boil method 1st time. 1 gal honey, 4 gal water,
> 5 camden tablets. Very difficult to mix in carboy and camden tablets
> won't dissolve. I had thought to let this sulfite for 24 hrs, then
> pitch a batch of D-47 from a starter. But, if camden tablets don't
> dissolve, this creates a potential problem
Word from a friend who brews mead regularly without boiling - There is
some anti-microbiol enzyme in the honey that breaks at about 145F so
heat to about 140F. It's a compromise temperature. So far I have not
made a batch using his suggestion yet but this weekend I bought an
antique glass 5 gallon carbouy. Thinking about starting a batch in a
month after moving.
I think it would work to dissolve the tablets - Pour it back into a big
kettle and heat to the 140F range.
barn...@ureach.com
about camden tablets dissolving, and pitched yeast. Mead is
fermenting. I thought sulfite would kill the yeast but maybe bred for
sulfite resistance.
Another question - does honey repel insects? I've got sugar ant
infestation, but they seem to ignore open jar of honey. I speculate
that the smell of honey tells ants that bees are around to defend it?
Roger
Dick Adams
> I've been brewing beer all grain for more than 10 yrs.
> I have made the occasional mead, boil method, with
> mixed results. My goal is to make sparkling mead
> champagne.
I shall refrain from my usual diatribe about boiling
honey and go to the heart of your goal - making a
sparkling Mead Champange.
First, I suggest you use fresh honey to get all of the
flavor components possible. Even though EC-1118 is my
yeast of choice, I would recommend 71B-1122 unless you
want a dry champange.
Also bottle fermentation will result in smaller bubbles.
> Today, I tried the non-boil method 1st time. 1 gal honey,
> 4 gal water, 5 camden tablets. Very difficult to mix in
> carboy and camden tablets won't dissolve. ...
I crush camden tablets and add them to a cup of boiling
water which gets chilled overnight.
I strongly suggest you read Kris England's Mead presentation
http://www.ahaconference.org/presentations/2008/KrisEngland_NHC.pdf
Dick
barn...@ureach.com
was to precipitate protein in the honey, and the non-boil method will
make a cloudy mead. If my goal is a clear, sparkling mead, do I have
to boil?
Thanks
Steve Peek
<barn...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:e8190e8c-6496-4a21...@z25g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
It is absolutely NOT necessary to boil honey for ANY reason for meadmaking.
Myths and old wives tales have no place in modern meadmaking. I do not heat
or chemically treat my honey in any way prior to making my must. If you
notice that lovely floral aroma when the honey is heating, that's an aroma
that will never be in your finished mead. Aroma molecules are physical
things, if you can smell it it's lost.
Steve
(Carolinas Meadmaker of the Year '03, '04)
climbing down off the soapbox now
barn...@ureach.com
advice regarding the need to boil honey
Making Mead by Roger Morse
Brewing Mead by Gayre/Papazian
Are there better books out there?
Roger
Erroll Ozgencil
Boiling does result in clear meads. When I've boiled, the resulting
mead cleared to my satisfaction without fining. When I've gone no-
heat, I've had to fine. So the answer to your question is yes, but you
will probably have to fine (bentonite works great).
> Myths and old wives tales have no place in modern meadmaking.
Couldn't agree more. That's why I think there should be less arguing
about the effects of boiling and more experimenting. If you really
want to know how boiling affects the finished mead, run a controlled
experiment. Try to make two batches as identical as possible, except
that one is boiled, then taste them blind. See here for an example:
http://www.washingtonwinemaker.com/blog/2008/10/28/making-mead-testing-the-controversy-over-boiling/
and if you do your own experiment, please post the results!
> Very difficult to mix in carboy and camden tablets won't dissolve
You can buy potassium metabisulfite in powdered form. It dissolves
easily, and is normally used at a rate of 0.25 teaspoons in a 5-gallon
batch.
Steve Peek
acknowledged as the modern meadmaaker's "bible".
Steve
<barn...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:1ac43254-a1eb-4f15...@f17g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Zopha
> > Can you get clear mead without boiling?
>
> Boiling does result in clear meads. When I've boiled, the resulting
> mead cleared to my satisfaction without fining. When I've gone no-
> heat, I've had to fine. So the answer to your question is yes, but you
> will probably have to fine (bentonite works great).
I only have one batch of mead under my belt but i've gotten it to
clear without boiling or fineing. I'm not sure why but a few drops of
black cherry extract made the chilli and vanilla meads (one large
batch, several flavourings) I brewed nearly crystal-clear. I had
favoured a demijohn with the cherry extract and the next day
everything had floculated out so I thought I'd try it with the other
favours I had going.
I have a feeling It's something to do with acid levels, I didn't look
in to it much afterwards. It's something i'll be testing more next
time.
Joel
>It is absolutely NOT necessary to boil honey for ANY reason for meadmaking.
>Myths and old wives tales have no place in modern meadmaking. I do not heat
>or chemically treat my honey in any way prior to making my must. If you
>notice that lovely floral aroma when the honey is heating, that's an aroma
>that will never be in your finished mead. Aroma molecules are physical
>things, if you can smell it it's lost.
Well, that's the kind of statement that gets me thinking.
Can you quantify that "aroma molecule" thing? Since one can
smell the aroma of honey does that mean mead is best made
immediately after harvesting honey? Or if any aroma at all
comes off the fermenter (for many months!) it's a bad thing?
My gut feeling is that there are plenty of "aroma molecules"
to go around, and worry about it is not very productive. But
without some sort of quantification we can't really say one way
or the other. Personally, I've had orders of magnitude more issues
when it comes to aroma with oxidation-- you trade the good aroma
for some not-very-pleasant sherryish oxidation aroma.
If you think about the whole process of fermenting a mead
must, considering weeks to months of active fermentation that
scrubs volatile aroma compounds, followed by months to years
of aging, this brewer/meadmaker has to believe mead isn't nearly
as delicate as some fear.
But it's all a fun topic of discussion, especially if fueled
by judicious tasting of the final product. ;-)
--
Joel Plutchak
"New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any
other reason but because they are not already common." - John Locke
Steve Peek
"Joel" <plut...@see.headers> wrote in message
news:i0o98e$78d$1...@barley.ncsa.uiuc.edu...
> Steve Peek <sp...@ioa.com> wrote:
>>It is absolutely NOT necessary to boil honey for ANY reason for
>>meadmaking.
>>Myths and old wives tales have no place in modern meadmaking. I do not
>>heat
>>or chemically treat my honey in any way prior to making my must. If you
>>notice that lovely floral aroma when the honey is heating, that's an aroma
>>that will never be in your finished mead. Aroma molecules are physical
>>things, if you can smell it it's lost.
>
> Well, that's the kind of statement that gets me thinking.
> Can you quantify that "aroma molecule" thing? Since one can
> smell the aroma of honey does that mean mead is best made
> immediately after harvesting honey? Or if any aroma at all
> comes off the fermenter (for many months!) it's a bad thing?
Are you suggesting that it isn't quantifiable just because it can't be seen?
Aroma molecules can be measured.
> My gut feeling is that there are plenty of "aroma molecules"
> to go around, and worry about it is not very productive. But
> without some sort of quantification we can't really say one way
> or the other. Personally, I've had orders of magnitude more issues
> when it comes to aroma with oxidation-- you trade the good aroma
> for some not-very-pleasant sherryish oxidation aroma.
> If you think about the whole process of fermenting a mead
> must, considering weeks to months of active fermentation that
> scrubs volatile aroma compounds, followed by months to years
> of aging, this brewer/meadmaker has to believe mead isn't nearly
> as delicate as some fear.
Then why is it always advised to add fruits only in the secondary? I agree
that the CO2 carrys off enormous amounts of aroma during fermentation, so
why would you purposely loose more by boiling?
> But it's all a fun topic of discussion, especially if fueled
> by judicious tasting of the final product. ;-)
> --
> Joel Plutchak
>
> "New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any
> other reason but because they are not already common." - John Locke
I can see I've made a mistake here. Apparently many of you are so used to
supermarket honey that has been heated and blended beyond recognition that
you can't imagine how good "real" honey is. That honey has already lost so
much of its' character that boiling it doesn't matter. I am a beekeeper
simply to make better mead. If one is making a metheglyn or heavily fruited
melomel the freshness of the honey isn't really an issue. A high quality
varietal is only at its' best with fresh raw honey. A well made fruit
blossom or sourwood mead is orgasmically good!
Steve
Joel
>Are you suggesting that it isn't quantifiable just because it can't be seen?
>Aroma molecules can be measured.
I'm suggesting you haven't quantified anything about
"aroma molecules" nor has anyone else as far as I have seen.
That's how old wives tales get started and propagated--
statements without backing data.
I'm simply stating that I don't in fact know whether
honey aroma is as delicate and fleeting as some think.
>I agree
>that the CO2 carrys off enormous amounts of aroma during fermentation, so
>why would you purposely loose more by boiling?
I don't know. But I do know some people who don't add
fruit to secondary (e.g., cyser makers) and there is plenty
of fruit aroma left. Same goes for makers of cider and perry.
In fact when I brewed the 2008 AHA Mead Day mead it called
for all the fruit in the primary (no boil). Almost two years
later is still has massive fruit aroma.
>I can see I've made a mistake here. Apparently many of you are so used to
>supermarket honey that has been heated and blended beyond recognition that
>you can't imagine how good "real" honey is. That honey has already lost so
>much of its' character that boiling it doesn't matter. I am a beekeeper
>simply to make better mead. If one is making a metheglyn or heavily fruited
>melomel the freshness of the honey isn't really an issue. A high quality
>varietal is only at its' best with fresh raw honey. A well made fruit
>blossom or sourwood mead is orgasmically good!
That might be the case for some. I have personally never used
supermarket honey. Some has been sourced from the local University
hives (minimally processed; still contains bee parts), some from a
friend who keeps bees (ditto), and some directly from a guy who both
keeps bees and collects and sells varietals from other beekeepers.
All good, unique, flavorful stuff.
Steve Peek
"Joel" <plut...@see.headers> wrote in message
> Steve Peek <sp...@ioa.com> wrote:
>>Are you suggesting that it isn't quantifiable just because it can't be
>>seen?
>>Aroma molecules can be measured.
>
> I'm suggesting you haven't quantified anything about
> "aroma molecules" nor has anyone else as far as I have seen.
> That's how old wives tales get started and propagated--
> statements without backing data.
> I'm simply stating that I don't in fact know whether
> honey aroma is as delicate and fleeting as some think.
>
Wow, you don't get out much. Here's just 4 out of over 8000 hits searching
"measurement of aroma molecules".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odor#Measurement
http://library.wur.nl/wda/dissertations/dis3589.pdf
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac00205a010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15137042
>>I agree
>>that the CO2 carrys off enormous amounts of aroma during fermentation, so
>>why would you purposely loose more by boiling?
>
> I don't know. But I do know some people who don't add
> fruit to secondary (e.g., cyser makers) and there is plenty
> of fruit aroma left. Same goes for makers of cider and perry.
> In fact when I brewed the 2008 AHA Mead Day mead it called
> for all the fruit in the primary (no boil). Almost two years
> later is still has massive fruit aroma.
>
I've got a 7 year old blackberry (only a couple of bottles left) that still
has huge fruit flavor. Everything went into the primary but it took a huge
amount of fruit (6 pounds per gallon). It took a BOS less than a month out
of the fermenter. How good could it have been? I don't compete anymore, I
judge. The whole reason being to help others make the very best mead
possible.
>>I can see I've made a mistake here. Apparently many of you are so used to
>>supermarket honey that has been heated and blended beyond recognition that
>>you can't imagine how good "real" honey is. That honey has already lost so
>>much of its' character that boiling it doesn't matter. I am a beekeeper
>>simply to make better mead. If one is making a metheglyn or heavily
>>fruited
>>melomel the freshness of the honey isn't really an issue. A high quality
>>varietal is only at its' best with fresh raw honey. A well made fruit
>>blossom or sourwood mead is orgasmically good!
>
> That might be the case for some. I have personally never used
> supermarket honey. Some has been sourced from the local University
> hives (minimally processed; still contains bee parts), some from a
> friend who keeps bees (ditto), and some directly from a guy who both
> keeps bees and collects and sells varietals from other beekeepers.
> All good, unique, flavorful stuff.
> --
> Joel Plutchak
>
> "New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any
> other reason but because they are not already common." - John Locke
Read your own quote.
Steve
Kevin Martin
sp...@ioa.com says...
> I can see I've made a mistake here. Apparently many of you are so used to
> supermarket honey that has been heated and blended beyond recognition that
> you can't imagine how good "real" honey is. That honey has already lost so
> much of its' character that boiling it doesn't matter. I am a beekeeper
> simply to make better mead. If one is making a metheglyn or heavily fruited
> melomel the freshness of the honey isn't really an issue. A high quality
> varietal is only at its' best with fresh raw honey. A well made fruit
> blossom or sourwood mead is orgasmically good!
> Steve
>
>
--
Absolutely, had a 4 year old one last night.
I haven't boiled a mead in years and years and they all clear just fine.
Kevin
(Carolinas Meadmaker of the year 05, 06)
Steve Peek
"Kevin Martin (Homebrewer)" <kev...@mediumfoot.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.26a3f5eec...@news.megapathdsl.net...
Yo Kevin, wazzup dude. Good to know you're still kicking, maybe like me
though, not too high anymore. Man, if you get up my way, look me up. I'd
love to crack open an old bottle with you.
Steve
aaa
I do not boil, initially the mead is cloudy. But it will clear of its
own accord, but it takes time (about 6 months).
I suspect it depends on the type of honey used, tastes of honey vary so
much. I usually use Acacia honey (due to it tasting good but not too
expensive), but open to suggestions for other honey types. Finding
honey at a sensible price in sensible quantities is hard. I have tried
Ling heather honey, but it is just too hard to find large quantities of
the honey.