anybody got an info sorce on these knots
Martin Combs
From: NIGEL CLIPPERTON <clipp...@btopenworld.com>
>To: roun...@hotmail.com
>Subject: Knots
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:42:46 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Hello
>
>Would you be able to help me find out how to tie 2 knots.
>
>1. Parisienne baudier
>2. Italian hitch
>
>Hope you can help
>
>Regards
>
>NigelC
Martin Carpenter
"Martin Combs" <mac...@cox.net> wrote:
> I gat a request for info but I'm a little stumped on
> this one:
[snip]
> >Would you be able to help me find out how to tie
> > 2 knots.
> >
> >1. Parisienne baudier
This is as an improvised chest harness, and I know that it's illustrated in
Shepherd's "Modern Rope Techniques" (which isn't particularly modern these
days, but is still pretty good). I don't quite remember how the knot over
the shoulder goes; I seem to recall (v. vaguely!) that it's something like a
sheet bend (but presumably more secure).
> >2. Italian hitch
Also known (Germany, N. America) as the Munter Hitch. Easy to google up:
http://brmrg.med.virginia.edu/knots/FTL/munter.html
http://www.techt.ch/michel/speleo/noeuds_italien.htm
Martin.
ben
> I gat a request for info but I'm a little stumped on this one:
> >1. Parisienne baudier
> >2. Italian hitch
hi martin, nigel,
the italian hitch is:
Munter hitch
HMS , halb mastwurf sicherung (half clove hitch)
other translations:
http://www.kong.it/lexis02.htm
http://www.wa.com.hk/chinese/articles/knots/italian.html
http://wsystem.com.br/hardgrit/Tech%20Info/TechInfo%20Nos.htm
;-) (nobody thinks that I know what is stated in these sites I hope)
the Parisienne baudier ?
I suppose it is : "baudrier" ( "belt" in french )
in climbing it means: harness
is it a knot?
then my (lucky?) guess is:
http://www.cc.nctu.edu.tw/~mclub/meichu/teach/belay/classical.html
the top picture here might be something similar to the "parisienne baudrier"
all assumptions here,
ben
Brian Grimley
> I got a request for info:
> >1. Parisienne baudier
> >2. Italian hitch
Martin, climbers and cavers are the sorts of people who use those.
1. Parisienne baudier
Baudier is really spelled Baudrier and is the French for harness. The
Parisian Baudrier is found about 2/3 way down this PDF file:
www.cs-caving-association.com/Reports/
Extracts_%20from_Tech_%20Pub_4.pdf .
2. The Italian Hitch is found about 1/2 way down this page:
http://www.massey.ac.nz/~sglasgow/nzss/knots.htm .
Hope this helps - Brian.
ben
> >1. Parisienne baudier
hi,
"baudrier parisienne" in three references:
"A French baudrier is a upper chest harness tied out of a 20' loop of
1" webbing. It may be used by individual climbers as personal gear, or
is tied around a victim's chest during a stranded climber rescue (as
the upper part of an integrated seat/chest harness system)."
"French baudrier knot (as part of chest harness in stranded climber
rescue; 1" tubular webbing 13' long, tied in 6' sling; Must be
integrated into waist harness) "
source: http://www.amrg.org/knotquiz.htm
FRENCH BAUDRIER (Pronounced: Bo-Dree-A)
· Principal use: To create an improvised shoulder loop chest harness.
· Always load in both directions to ensure that the knot does not
slip and is correctly tied.
· Use remaining bight to integrate the chest harness to the seat
harness if long enough.
source: http://www.amrg.org/Knotshitches.pdf
The Parisian Baudrier is a type of make-shift chest harness. It is
made by taking an 8ft sling and passing one arm through the loop,
passing the rest of it around your back and then under the arm. The 2
ends are then tied in an overhand knot in front.
You could use it in lots of situations, not just in an emergency.
Look for a book called Modern Rope Techniques by Bill March. it is
described in there.
-- Arthur C Clarke --
source: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002WaV
knot tried myself jet,
ben
Dan Lehman
>
> Also known (Germany, N. America) as the Munter Hitch.
Well, in America, yes, but not in Germany (or Europe), I think.
In German: Halbmastwurfsicherung (HMS = half clove hitch belay).
In Italian, it's "Mezzo barcaiolo" ("MB" for the tongue-tied, but at
least it expands to the right source; though it could be interpreted
as "Munter Brake" by the immaginative.)
>> When the Munter is "closed" it has a braking force of about
>> 2.5 kN, which is greater than many belay devices (around 2kN).
>> An "open Munter," however, has a braking force of about 1.4 kN
>> so the belay is a bit more dynamic and much more than
>> offered by a waist belay (about 0.8 kN).
>> The hitch is mistakenly named for Werner Munter, a Swiss guide who
>> helped popularize it
>> Franz Ruso, is said to have discovered it's usefulness for belaying.
>> It was introduced in 1974 to the UIAA at a meeting in Italy, hence
>> one of it's names,
The explanation by Carlo Zanatoni in the UIAA World 3/2000 issue, p.8.,
attributes development (if not "discovery") of the MB technique
to two Italians, viz. Mario Bisaccia, & Franco Garda e Pietro Gilardoni.
>> and has been thoroughly tested. Few European climbers know it as the
>> Munter hitch unless they been around 閃ercans a lot.
--dl*
====
ben
> > >1. Parisienne baudier
> ...
> I seem to recall (v. vaguely!) that it's something like a
> sheet bend (but presumably more secure).
hi martin,
you remembered well; it is a sheet bend
(when tieing the sling myself, it seemed a proper knot for this parisienne baudrier)
and now I have come across a picture of it:
http://www.cs-caving-association.com/Reports/Knots%20A5.pdf
(in a link from another thread today, from Brian Grimley)
page 10:
"38. Sheet bend. The only use this knot has underground, is when making a
improvised chest harness out of a 2.4m tape sling, called a Parisian Baudrier."
knot all over this thead,
ben
Dan Lehman
> In German: Halbmastwurfsicherung (HMS = half clove hitch belay).
My mistake: this longwinded term is for the 'biner, I think.
"Halbmastwurf" is the knot--half a Clove (though kinda an odd "half").
(-;