RT Blanking System and/or Die Forming

[JanisCarl]

Hi all!

I am attempting to speed up production on a few things, and would like to
hear from anyone who has some experience with any blanking system or die
forming equipment. I am interested in a machine that can punch out the
same design out of sheet silver numerous times. From what I understand,
the RT Blanking System (sold by Rio Grande) does just this. I also have
requested brochures and information from several similar types of
equipment (including Frei and Borel's Bonney Doone Hydraulic Die Forming
Press set up). Frei and Borel told me that their system will do this, and
also can produce 3-dimensional designs.

I really know nothing about any of these processes, so any information
would be helpful.

Thanx - Janis

[howie]

Rio has "product experts" available to help you in selecting products they
sell, they are VERY helpfull. You just need to request to speak with one when
you call.

In article <19970128081...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, jani...@aol.com
says...

[howie]

Photoetching by a contractor is also a great method which I use. $20 for a 4x12
sheet (plus the sheet). Email me for contractor recommendations, Iv used
several and have some opinions. Howard.

[peter...@aol.com]

In article <19970128081...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
jani...@aol.com (JanisCarl) writes:

> From what I understand,
>the RT Blanking System (sold by Rio Grande) does just this. I also have
>requested brochures and information from several similar types of
>equipment (including Frei and Borel's Bonney Doone Hydraulic Die Forming
>Press set up). Frei and Borel told me that their system will do this,
and
>also can produce 3-dimensional designs.
>
>I really know nothing about any of these processes, so any information
>would be helpful.
>
>

You're talking about two different process. The key to the RT blanking
system is the concept of the one piece die. This is simply a piece of
sheet tool steel with a shape cout almost out, but not all the way, at the
end of a long arm, also within the sheet. To illustrate, drill two small
holes, about a half inch apart, near one end of a 2 x 4 inch piece of
1/16" starrett flat ground tool steel stock. Saw paralell lines, about
2.5 inches long, from those holes, toward the other end of the sheet,
convergins slightly, so that at their other end they are about 1/4 inch
apart. Now draw your shape with a single line from the end of one cut to
the other, Cut out, it's your shape attached to a long lever, which holds
it aligned with the rest of the sheet. Now, with a straight cut, you have
a big gap from the saw blade. But if your saw blade is angled correctly,
the cut at the top surface of the sheet is offset from th bottom surface,
and with the right angles and techniques, you can get it so the inside
edge of the lower surface is an exact match for the outside edge (of the
cut) of the upper surface of the sheet. If that "arm" is now bent up over
by those drill holes (that portion treated as a spring hinge) enough so
it's sitting slightly above the rest of the sheet, and then hardened and
tempered, you've got a cutting die. The lower edge of the raised shape is
the cutting edge of the punch, and the matching shape in the lower sheet
is the female die. You place your silver under that arm, and press the
whole thing in any sort of press. Even a vise can work, but it's slow and
not precise. The "hinge" keeps the die and punch aligned, and it will
nicely punch out your shape. What RIO sells is first off, a specialized
saw setup to allow easy cutting of that die, since getting the angle right
and consistent is critical. And then they sell a simple screw press to
punch your forms. With practice, you can use an angled bench pin and a
steady hand to cut the dies without the jig, once you understand the
principle of the thing.

Rio also sells a nice and expensive hydraulic press that would punch those
dies, as well as do lots of other things.

And the Bonny Doon press as well, will punch those dies and do lots of
other things too. The most basic illustration of "all those other things"
is to take a piece of urathane die rubber, place a piece of metal on it,
and press it against a former, which might be a ball bearings, a carved
shape in acrylic, or a complex form made by casting Devcon Epoxy steel
over a wax or clay shape. In the press, the urathane die rubber acts to
press the metal cleanly into or over the form, with no tool marks and much
less time than you could do it with a chasing hammer and pitch and
punches... Sounds simplistic, but it's not. I'ts about as close to
industrial level metal forming as most jewelers could ever want to get,
and has great potential for lots of uses, if you've got the imagination to
use it.

You can make presses yourself, as well, from 20 ton hydraulic car jacks,
but be forwarned, its' not a simple construction project. The plans have
been published in the " Metalsmith Papers" from SNAG, or in Susan
Kingsleys wonderful book on the subject, Hydraulic die forming for
jewelers, which details the ways in which individual craftspeople can use
such technologies.

My personal recommendation, if you're interested in all this, is get
Susan's book first. As to presses, The Bonny Doon is a wonderful unit.
Lee Marshal did a fine job designing and building that unit, and is a very
helpful and knowledgeable person to deal with, as vendors go. How often,
in buying tools, are you getting the functional equivalent of an expensive
industrial machine, for a reasonable price, embodied in what is still a
very well made top quality tool, and is sold not by some sales rep, but
the the metalsmith and engineer who designed and builds the things... If
your need is mostly for the cutting dies, the slower Rio press might work
well enough, but I'd suggest getting the much more versatile Bonny Doon
anyway. You'll find uses for it quickly enough.

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter W. Rowe M.F.A., G.G.
Commercial and custom jeweler and metalsmith
Graduate Gemologist and Lapidary

Opinions expressed here are solely my own....... and subject to change
according to my mood, my blood sugar, the state of my art, and the
opinions of my cats.....
_....._
Free advice and friendship.... ( oo ) (Are we having fun yet?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ww~*~ww~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Brenda + Ron Shack]

Can this be used to cut out titanium or niobium?

AStick7910 <astic...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970201134...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> I've seen someone cut blanks just using a vise, attached polished steel
> plates to the jaws first. Insert your die and metal sandwich, screw it
> down, it pops right out. You can only cut thinner gauge this way
>

[peter...@aol.com]

In article <01bc1103$59839160$9460...@rwschack.esslink.com>, "Brenda +
Ron Shack" <rwsc...@esslink.com> writes:

Yes, Especially niobium, which is softer. But both niobium and especially
titanium are much tougher to cut than, say, silver or even gold. So
you'll have to be sure youre cutting die is properly hardened and
tempered, it won't last as long before getting dull, and you will
probably not be able to cut as thick a guage as you would with softer
metals. Also, you're either gonna need a pretty heavy vise, or a true
press, unless you're only cutting quite small shapes.

[Byzantia]

I sprang for the RT System (sawing platform and press) from RIO a couple
of years ago. My designs are mostly flat or slightly convex, with some
design-ey goop or bezel cups soldered onto a relatively simple background.
The ability to stamp out the background shapes and some of the foreground
features quickly and consistently has SERIOUSLY sped up my production. I
make many, many things all the same, though (can you say boring?), and I
think that's the only reason to go through the pain of making blanking
dies. It's not an easy task. Not to discourage - After some practice,
you can get some pretty fancy dies going.

If you're convinced of its suitability to your process, and you have a
choice, I think I might recommend the hydrolic press over the screw press.
You'd be amazed how long it seems to take turning that screw up and down
for hours on end... and how quickly your friends gets sick of doing it for
ya...

Hope this helps in some way.
-Dana