Questions - Pin Backs & Glue
Personalized Creations
I have 2 questions:
One: What the very best and most solid and dependable way to attach a pin
back to a clay pin?
I sell these in my business .... and they really have to be well done, and
NOT un-attach .... so I really need a very strong hold.
Second: What would be the best glue to use to attach a button, or pearls to
the clay? I have heard that jewelers glue is the best .... but not sure
where I would get this. Is there anything else you would suggest?
Thanks a bunch!
Diane
Glenn Woolum
news:o694ttoq2hefnc345...@4ax.com...
I use E-6000 all the time for projects such as this. It is an extremely
strong cement that is also flexible and long lasting. In addition to that,
it doesn't require mixing like epoxy and isn't brittle. Make sure you join
the pieces promptly, and allow it to dry for at least 72 hours for a full
strength cure.
--
Regards,
Glenn Woolum
Fishbre396
<gwooly-...@earthlink.net> writes:
Let's be honest and admit that even E-6000 may fall apart. Many of my friends
us it in their collage jewelry . . . customers take these beautiful items home
and they "may fall apart" before the end of the week.
Peter W. Rowe
fishb...@aol.comnojunk (Fishbre396) wrote:
>>
>>Let's be honest and admit that even E-6000 may fall apart. Many of my friends
>>us it in their collage jewelry . . . customers take these beautiful items home
>>and they "may fall apart" before the end of the week.
True. Any glue may fall apart if you exceed the capabilities of the bond, or
don't use it right. Like any glue, E-6000 works best on clean surfaces, and
when the bond is allowed to remain undisturbed untill it's fully cured. Collage
jewelery also is often made from items that don't even begin to approach some
sort of a fit between bonded parts, with disimilar bits and pieces sometimes
presenting small surface areas, plated or painted or otherwise insecure surfaces
for a bond, and all sorts of other such potential failure points for a glue
bond. Often it's the item itself, not the glue that fails. The glue itself
seldom falls apart. But items glued together can fall apart for reasons other
than glue failure. The same holds true for epoxies and super glues.
The choice of glues can be tricky.
For non-porous parts with a very close (capillary) fit, the cyanoacrylate based
glues (super glues) are often the strongest. They aren't for all materials
(plastics often don't work well), and flexible items don't work well either, as
the bonds are rigid, not flexible. These glues are strongest when the glue
layer is as thin as possible, and without an excess of glue (two drops can be
weaker than one drop...) Super glues are not as water resistant as epoxies or
some solvent based glues (like E-6000), and if the bond geometry allows shear
forces to be placed on the bond, the bonds can often be easily fractured, as the
set glue is quite brittle.
For parts needing a LITTLE flexibility in a bond, and more importantly, where
the fit isn't as good, or where it may be desired to be able to unglue the piece
with solvents, then epoxies are often a better choice, as they have much better
gap filling ability, and retain a little flexibility with some brands of epoxy
(not all). The slower setting types are much more water resistant than the very
fast "5 minute" types of epoxy. Epoxies are also the best choice when there's a
chance the items may not be perfectly clean, such as some kinds of oily woods.
Of course, clean items always will bond a lot better than those less clean, as
you want to bond the items, not the film of dirt or oil... With most epoxies,
the big thing to watch, beyond cleanliness, is that you get the ratio of the
resin and hardener exactly as specified, usually 1:1 ratio. With some epoxies,
the bond strength can be lessened by as much as 50% with a mismatch of the two
resins of as little as 10%. Usually, this means you'll need to mix up more
epoxy than you'll need for a small job, in order to be sure of getting the two
parts equally dispensed and mixed. My own favorite method is to use a small
battery type carat/gram scale to actually weigh out the two parts, thus ensuring
that I've got the ratio accuratly measured. With proper cleaning of the work,
and proper measuring and mixing of the glue, epoxies have probably the highest
bond strength of any of the commonly used glues in jewelry.
Solvent based glues, like E-6000, or silicone sealers, rubber cements, "duco"
cements, plastic cements, and many others, are perhaps the easiest glues to use.
They're forgiving and simple to use. Usually, cleanliness of the objects being
glued is still important however. Many of these glues, especially the silicone
sealers, are highly water resistant, if the items being glued are also water
resistant. And the flexibility of the bonds some of these glues give, makes the
finished items rather tougher and more resiliant, especially with poorly fitted
joints. But remember that the actual bond strength is usually not quite as
strong as that of super glues or epoxies.
In many modern military aircraft designs, the body and wing "skin" is glued to
the frame using double sided foam based adhesives. The foam allows some
expansion/contraction and flexibility to the joints. The finished joints are
stronger than the aluminum skin itself, with the metal failing from
fatigue/flexing over time, before those bonds do. It's far superior to the old
rivetting methods. The tapes are the industrial version of the simple double
sided tape adhesives sold for consumer uses, such as mounting posters to the
wall, etc. They differ in that the adhesives used in these, and the foam tapes
themselves, are FAR stronger versions of the semi-removable consumer product.
Similar foam adhesives are also used in jewelery. I've seen "award" jewelry,
rings and lapel pins, the type where several (usually synthetic) stones
symbolize years of service on a framwork, while a center section of the design
has the company logo, often as a glued in applique. The most recently made of
these that I've seen, used those foam tape adhesives to hold in the company
logo, and you pretty much have to heat the things with a torch to get them
apart. And you can buy findings, like clip earring backs, designed to be
bonded with matching foam adhesive circles (Rio carries them). Again, if
properly cleaned first, and applied correctly, the resulting bonds are strong
and permanent.
Any glue can fail, of course, But a properly designed joint, with the right
glue properly applied, can sometimes be stronger than the material being glued.
This is true of many of the modern composite and laminate materials used,
including even common plywood.
Peter Rowe
Personalized Creations
You're the second person to suggest E-6000. I'm going into the city today,
so I'll be sure to look for it! :-)
Thanks a bunch!
Diane
Glenn Woolum <gwooly-...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3jv6ttkeg8u87u3gi...@4ax.com...
Personalized Creations
If you're saying E-6000 isn't dependable, what do YOU use ........ if you
use glue, or what would you recommend then? Any suggestions?
I still think I'll give it a try ...... along with another brand I was told
about ... in another forum, that is more professional.
Thanks!
Diane
Fishbre396 <fishb...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:7t77ttsuunmt2st6v...@4ax.com...
Personalized Creations
Wow ..... lots of good information!! :-)
I'll have to print this one out .... and keep it to refer back to every now
& then.
What I'll be doing .... is gluing shank buttons - to the back of baked
polymer clay, and the clay will all ready have the indentation for the
protruding part of the pin back. I don't foresee allot of twisting and
turning .... or rough handling of the buttons ... once they're glued on.
It seems that one of the solvent-based glues might work fine, as long as I
make sure that the backs of both the clay pin and the button is clean.
Thank you again for all the good information.
Diane
Peter W. Rowe <PWR...@home.com> wrote in message
news:tf87tt8sgflukhsju...@4ax.com...
Lori Greenberg
assuming that you are talking about polymer clay? For polymer clay, glue
may not be the answer at all. More clay or TLS might be. Some glues and
finishes react with polymer clay, some don't stick at all. You will also
find that glue is a personal preference to many. Some say that E6000
degrades after time, others swear by it.
What type of glue do you use on the ones you're currently selling? Is there
a problem with that bond?
--
Lori Greenberg
http://www.abundancebox.com
justbeads auctions:
http://www.justbeads.com/auction/SellerAuctions.asp?User=47723
"Personalized Creations" <parti...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o694ttoq2hefnc345...@4ax.com...
Glenn Woolum
> Hi Glenn,
>
> You're the second person to suggest E-6000. I'm going into the city
today,
> so I'll be sure to look for it! :-)
>
> Thanks a bunch!
> Diane
I have tons of experience with E6000. If the surfaces are properly prepared,
you will create a (for all practical purposes) permanent bond. I sometimes
have people I've sold jewelry to call me back, but never in regards to the
breakage of a glue joint. They call me in regards to the fact that they've
lost one of the pair of earrings, and could I make a matching item?
It's a very effective adhesive, but the surfaces need to have a tooth
(roughed up with emery or whatever, and cleaned) AND, it's a very good idea
to use E6000 fresh from the tube. E6000 degrades in strength once it starts
to set up, so be careful. If you do a bunch of glue-ups at the same time
from a blob of E6000 that's been squeezed onto a piece of cardboard, you
might run into trouble. That's because the E6000 begins to set-up quickly.
Once E6000 begins to set-up it souldn't be disturbed, otherwise the bond
will be drastically weakened.
E6000 is very effective as a bonding agent for jewelry because it is both
strong and flexible, however, you need to understand what the weaknesses of
this adhesive are, so you can avoid problems (as with any adhesive).
--
Regards,
Glenn Woolum
Personalized Creations
Diane
Glenn Woolum <gwooly-...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2ahcttse2i4rvnc79...@4ax.com...
Personalized Creations
Thank you for that link .... I'll be checking it out.
Yes, I am talking of Polymer Clay. Now ..... I'm baking the piece first
..... THEN adding the Liquid Sculpey, with a piece of extra clay across the
pin back. I pulled on it quite hard to see if it would give, and it did
......
I think I need to glue on pin back with LS and the extra piece of clay the
FIRST time I bake it... and also know that if a pin back is pulled on hard
enough .. it will give.
Thanks,
Diane
Lori Greenberg <lorigr...@SPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
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