Carpal Tunnel Syndrome among jewelers?
NE333RO
since have had numbness at the tips of my left thumb, my right thumb, and the
first two fingers (middle and pointer) on my right hand. Nerve conduction tests
have shown mild to severe nerve disruption and the doctor has diagnosed this as
carpal tunnel syndrome. Up to the day of the accident I had never had any kind
of problem like this in 17 years of making a living on the bench, but from that
day on this has been a constant problem. The doctor, however, thinks that this
would have happened eventually anyway and that the accident only hastened the
event.
My question is this: do any of you with a fair amount of time in at the
bench have any signs of carpal tunnel syndrome? I personally have never heard
of any jewelers with this problem (maybe because of the way our benches are set
up?) but am interested in what the rest of you have heard or experienced. Is
the doctor mistaken in his assumption or have I just led a sheltered life and
havent heard from/about the people that do have problems?
Jeff - jewelrylife.com
> My question is this: do any of you with a fair amount of time in at the
>bench have any signs of carpal tunnel syndrome? I personally have never heard
>of any jewelers with this problem (maybe because of the way our benches are set
>up?) but am interested in what the rest of you have heard or experienced. Is
>the doctor mistaken in his assumption or have I just led a sheltered life and
>havent heard from/about the people that do have problems?
I think you'll find this common. A short story. My girlfriend worked on the
bench 5 days a week - 9 hours a day making Gold, Platinum, Setting Stones, doing
Granulation, etc. etc.. Well, after 5 years her wrists gave out. She went
through extensive theraphy and had to quit her successful job on the bench to
perform retail duties. It was an extremely difficult transition for her because
she worried so much about her future as a designer. Well, needless to say the
whole ordeal perhaps expedited her jump into strictly design work. She can now
only work on the bench for three days and needs to pace herself throughout the
day. Often she'll wear a brace shortly after working if she's in any pain. Her
doctors wanted her to quit making jewelry outright, but this is her life now.
She no longer is able to spend all day on a bench, which in some ways she likes.
She never wanted to do repairs or make someone else's jewelry design, but it
gave her the experience she needed to have really clean goldwork. Soon after
leaving her job in Manhattan she was able to start her own design studio back
home in New Hampshire and is very happy doing what she's doing. I think she
wishes she could do more. The job she had was a great place to sharpen those
essential skills. Unfortunately it could have cost her career.
So, I would certainly take it seriously and try to pace yourself a bit at first.
If you feel pain or tingling, STOP!! (If you CAN) If you don't stop and the
pain persists you can be in a heap of trouble down the road. Don't sacrifice
the next 10 years of your life. It may never become a real problem for you, but
don't take it lightly.
Best of luck. Please let us know how it's coming along.
-jeff
Jewelry Life, Inc.
http://www.jewelrylife.com
Designer Jewelry - 18K, 22K, Platinum and Silver.
Alberic
While I don't (knock wood) have CTS, a friend of mine is a physical
therapist specializing in hands. Anecdotally from her accounts, I'd say
it wasn't uncommon in jewelers. (as in: jewelers make up enough of her
client base that there are specific PT programs designed to treat common
jeweler's injuries.)
It seems to be *much* more common in the people who do rings all day,
every day, rather than among the artist/metalsmith types who tend to vary
their activities.
Her two specific comments (that I remember) were that packing your
sawframe handle in thermoplastic (to increase diameter) and lessen
gripping force would help a great deal, and that a goodly number of her
patients tended to hold needle files in a really weird position. As she
discribed it, you'd have to be holding the file by the handle, with the
tip pointing backwards aimed at the inside of your wrist. To file, you
stab downward. I've never *seen* anybody filing this way, but apparently
somebody must: they're keeping her in business.
FWIW,
Brian
--
To Email me: there are no numbers of any sort in my real address.
larry seiger
shocked at the number of people who said that they were being plagued by what
had been diagnosed as carpel tunnel. Some were bench workers of many years
working full-time, others had full-time jobs and worked at the bench much less
often. After talking with many of the jewelers we came to the conclusion that
a lot of the problem stemmed from a combination of non-jewelry related stresses
that were exaserbated by bench work. Most of the people were involved in other
work, mostly computer related, that they had to limit in order to alleviate
their pain. I have been at the bench for over 15 years and I only experience
wrist or hand pain/numbness when I sit at my computer and type or work my mouse
for extended periods. Needless to say I avoid doing that now! We came to the
conclusion that if you injure yourself then bench work only hampers
recovery...so be careful out there. I believe that if you have expereince in
many different techniques and can switch from one job to another, the
repetitive stress is very greatly lessened. If however I found myself using
the flex shaft every day in the same positions and was developing pain I would
try to find some other task to perform.
Larry Seiger
JA Certified Master Bench Jeweler
LSHancock design studio> My question is this: do any of you with a fair amount
Peter W. Rowe
jewelrylife.com" <in...@NOSPAMjewelrylife.com> wrote:
>>
>>So, I would certainly take it seriously and try to pace yourself a bit at first.
>>If you feel pain or tingling, STOP!! (If you CAN) If you don't stop and the
>>pain persists you can be in a heap of trouble down the road. Don't sacrifice
>>the next 10 years of your life. It may never become a real problem for you, but
>>don't take it lightly.
>>
A couple other comments that may help. In some cases, it will help to either
raise your chair, or raise your bench up a bit, or both. The idea is both to
change the angle of your wrists and hands as they work, and as well, perhaps
reduce the degree to which you hunch over your work. Sitting in a more relaxed
proper posture will help you relax your whole body more, and this will help.
Among other things, it will also particularly help to pay attention to how you
hold and use your tools. Few tools need to be held in a death grip or be used
with great force. Gravers used in setting sometimes are an exception, and there
are others too. But sawframes, files, and flex shaft handpieces can be
controlled and held with a reasonably relaxed and comfortable grip, letting the
tool do the work, not your wrist. Many tools work well if the arm is moved from
the shoulder and elbow, and NOT the wrist. You can relax the wrist and simply
keep it in line with the arm, if your bench pin and posture and work holding
setup are good.
Changing the nature of what you grip when you hold your tools can also help and
be affected by the tool handles. You can use things like pipe insulation, tape,
or whatever to cushion a file handle or you can get foam rubber sleeves that fit
around a #30 handpiece to reduce vibration. The basic idea is that you need to
hold a tool so you can control it. But this should still be a comfortable,
relaxed thing that you can do all day without undue stress, strain, or
discomfort.
Keep the following tidbit in mind. jewelry making should NOT be physically
demanding. Your mind, and your eyes need to be sharp and thinking and working
well. But your hands and wrist and arm should net be stressed out from it. If
they are, you're working to hard. Let the tools do it. Relaxing and
concentrating on the technique you use with the tools will show you that in some
cases, working this way is even faster than trying to force the tools through
the work. As noted, there are of course exceptions. Raising sheet metal forms
with hammers is hard to do without some stress to the wrist, especially if
you're new to it and the muscles have not been developed. Good hand engraving
or bead setting or pave work also demands physical conditioning of the wrist and
hand muscles, and may not be as possible for someone with reduced strength in
the wrist (but is again possible if you can afford a graver max machine...)
As Jeff says, pay attention to your body. If something you are doing is causing
discomfort, then DON'T DO THAT. Change the work method, the tool type, the
position of use, or whatever is needed to change whatever is causing the
problem. Stop if you're getting sore or any irritation. Continuing just makes
it worse, and makes it harder to heal. If your work habits can be honed to
methods that don't cause that initial irritation in the first place, then you
won't have trouble, but if it starts in, then be sensible and see that it's
allowed to heal rather than bullishly forging ahead and messing up your wrists
or hands.
Peter
Teresa Masters
the Engraving Machine Company offers the "Bench Mate" system, look into
that. Some time ago I initiated a question related to hands on the
Orchid list. there was a very large response to that query, many with
suggestions as to alleviate the situation. These replies should be in
Orchid's Archives.
There are alternate treatments available. Chiropractic is one. I have
seen this work extremely well. Find a good practitioner and give it a
chance. Another is Acupuncture, this is to open meridians. I have found
personally that this really works. Nerves follow pathways, with Carpal
or similar, nerves are being impinged. Acupuncture opens these pathways
and great relief is found. It is very necessary to find well recommended
persons in both fields. Surgery can be avoided in both alternatives.
The Bench Mate serves to reduce the strain of most jewelry tasks, and
prevent future problems. The combination of all three is best.
Teresa
C M
> Hi all. I was involved in a head-on car crash in April of this year and
>since have had numbness at the tips of my left thumb, my right thumb, and the
>first two fingers (middle and pointer) on my right hand. Nerve conduction tests
>have shown mild to severe nerve disruption and the doctor has diagnosed this as
>carpal tunnel syndrome. Up to the day of the accident I had never had any kind
>of problem like this in 17 years of making a living on the bench, but from that
>day on this has been a constant problem. The doctor, however, thinks that this
>would have happened eventually anyway and that the accident only hastened the
>event.
I'm sorry to tell you that your doctor is wrong. I'd change
doctors quickly. I'm afraid that you have whiplash, an injury of the
spinal cord. I'm not a doctor so I could be wrong, but that is far
more likely than CPS which is usually caused by excessive repeated
movements such as working on a keyboard all day everyday.
> My question is this: do any of you with a fair amount of time in at the
>bench have any signs of carpal tunnel syndrome? I personally have never heard
>of any jewelers with this problem (maybe because of the way our benches are set
>up?) but am interested in what the rest of you have heard or experienced. Is
>the doctor mistaken in his assumption or have I just led a sheltered life and
>havent heard from/about the people that do have problems?
I think he's mistaken. Badly mistaken. Last I heard, CPS caused
pain not numbness. My mother has a similar problem to yours and it
was caused by an auto accident. I suppose you're in an HMO?
~~~~~ "I found out why my car was humming.
\\|||||// It had forgotten the words."
\\\\\|/////
\\\\\|///// copper_...@yahoo.com
\\\\|////
\\|//
#
#
#
# The Copper Squirrel is not in his tree. He's gathering
# nuts for winter. So far he's gotten Ross Perot, Patrick
# Buchanon and and a fox that keeps saying he's with the
# FBI and wants to know about the Squirrels In Black...
Ronald Arney
problem. I have a monsterous pain threshold. Which leaves some thinking
I am unsympathetic. Be that as it may, one of the things I've done, (that
came not so much from CTS as from big bellied on-lookers trying to watch
me work whilst I demonstrate my expertice with file and saws at at shows,)
is to build up a 'pedestal' separate from my work bench. It started out
only for saw pierce work at shows, but... Pain hurts, and as time went by
I realized that the whole damn work bench needed to be re-thought. <g>
There may a 'norm' but only the 'average' person fits that description.
Give some thought to it and by trial and error, saw and shim, you can
relieve on hell of a lot of stress and distress in you work environment.
Store bought chaff sucks.
Ron
NeophyteSG
(larry seiger) writes:
>I have been at the bench for over 15 years and I only experience
>wrist or hand pain/numbness when I sit at my computer and type or work my
>mouse
>for extended periods.
One of the things I learned while doing some Safety & Health consulting a few
years back is that the reason the above activities usually play havoc with CTS
is due largely to the constant pressure applied to the underside of the wrists.
Proper typing form (wrists _not_ resting), pads in front of both the keyboard
and mouse, and padded wrist braces have been known to mitigate the onset of
some of the symptoms, though not always. I would think that similar pads and
adjustments to bench technique might help. At the very least, it would be
worth a try before giving up something you love to do.
Shawn
Peter W. Rowe
<copper_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I'm sorry to tell you that your doctor is wrong. I'd change
>>doctors quickly. I'm afraid that you have whiplash, an injury of the
>>spinal cord. I'm not a doctor so I could be wrong, but that is far
>>more likely than CPS which is usually caused by excessive repeated
>>movements such as working on a keyboard all day everyday. ...
>>... I think he's mistaken. Badly mistaken. Last I heard, CPS caused
>>pain not numbness. My mother has a similar problem to yours and it
>>was caused by an auto accident. I suppose you're in an HMO?
Um... While it certainly could be that the doctor is wrong, I'd put my bets
with the doctor. After all, unlike copper here, HE went to med school, and has
seen a lot more CTS than only his mother's problems. His knowledge of CPS is
based on solid training, cases he's seen, and hopefully actual knowledge of the
condition, not on "what he's heard". Plus he's seen and evaluated the patient,
the symptoms, and the various test results.
While I, and anyone else is certainly free to suggest their own opinions and
experiences, I for one would be very wary of taking the advice of a non
medically trained person disagreeing with the diagnosis of a trained observer,
especially when the disagreeing person has only a single short newsgroup
paragraph on which to base the advice to switch doctors. Sorry, "copper". But
I think perhaps you've overstated the issue here. Sure. suggest a second
opinion if desired. But lets not just suggest that the fellows doc is an idiot.
We have neither all the info, nor the experience to contradict him with much
surety.
Last I heard, whiplash is a neck injury. That, of course, can cause nerve
problems anywhere in the body. But for the only symptoms to be numbness in the
fingertips, still now months after the accident, without neck pain, does not at
all suggest to me a neck injury, though perhaps it's a contributing triggering
factor. Simple whiplash does not even have to affect the spinal cord at all.
In it's basic form, it's a stress injury to the neck muscles that support the
head and the vertabrae, causing considerable neck pain. Actual injury to the
vertabrae themselves, or worse, to the spinal cord, is a lot more serious than
just whiplash. Such injuries do not commonly cause just a little local numbness
in a fingertip or two. They cause things like paralysis... Anyone in a car
accident that could cause such injury is usually brought to the hospital
securely strapped to a board. From personal experience, I can tell you the damn
boards are uncomfortable as all hell, especially when the rest of your body is
screaming in pain and shock from the accident. They are there so that IF you've
actually damaged the vertabrae or spinal cord, transport or your movement does
not make it worse. They don't unclamp your poor head from that board until the
X-rays show that you do not, in fact have any damaged vertabrae. While the test
can miss slight cracks, it would be unlikely for that serious an injury to go
undetected for long.
I too, was in a car accident in '93, badly injuring my left wrist. (crushed it
quite thoroughly...) It healed much better than expected, but is now
considerably thicker. One result is a slight impingement on some of the nerves
travelling through that area, and the result of that is tingling/numbness in the
fingertips, especially the whole little finger. As well, I've considerably
reduced grip strength in that hand. I did NOT have any whiplash problems. What
I've got is a wrist injury. CTS also causes an impingement on the nerves in the
wrist. Commonly, because it's due to an inflammation too, there is considerable
pain as a result. But the impinged nerve itself may result in finger numbness.
In my case, it's not called Carpal tunnel, simply because the impingement is
caused by the abnormal shape of the healed bone, rather than by impinging
inflamed tissues caused by activity.
Gettin off the soapbox.
Peter
Jeff - jewelrylife.com
Damn warrior! <g>
Anyway, Ron, it's not all about Pain. As the original post states, there is
tingling. I had symptoms of carpal tunnel at one point and it was the tingling
that bothered me. Try to look at it this way (and I don't know if this really
happens in Carpal Tunnel, but I suspect it does). Ever play out in the snow as
a kid and then try to tie your boots up after your hands have been exposed to
the cold for some time? To this day I can't do it! When you have that tingling
you're losing some feeling. At first you can forge ahead, but after a long time
the tingling becomes a lack of feeling and so forth. I worry, and I'm sure most
do, more about the tingling than about the pain. I'm glad this thread has
become what it has become.
-jeff
PS: I'm going to really examine what Peter said about "working too hard" and
letting your tools do the work. Makes a lot of sense.
MS
Good suggestions...I had surgery on both hands, and post surgical pain
if I over-did it with hand work...during my last flare-up, I went to an
acupuncturist (highly recommended by a friend) who treated both arms
and wrists. Haven't had a huge flare up since then (1996 or so). Have
some ongoing, occasional, mild pain, but nothing I can't live with or
alleviate
with rest.
Micki
Back to lurk mode...
Tzudv
>pain not numbness
Wrong: Or partly wrong. CTS can in fact do both. Pain and numbness. I know. I
just went through Re-Hab after surgery for CTS.
FMM
hand carving/engraving for the last 10 years or so and have found that
the strain on my wrist and fingers/grip has weakened and become
increasingly sore in time and feels much like what other have
described to me as carpal tunnel.
Two other factors include living in a wet climate and having always
used my hands (30 yrs of work related use and abuse).
I also know that several other carvers have these symptomes and some
are not able to carve anymore because of the severity. Many are now
going to pnematic gravers.
Another contributing factor is that I'm always on this damn computor
too... which I'm sure helps the problem along very well...!
A bit of good news for you is that after a table saw and I had an
argument I found that the nerves that were damaged grew back far more
than the doctors or I expected.....2 lessons in this.1. don't
underestimate the resillience of the human body and
2. never argue with a table saw...!
I am not a doctor but... heat helps
good luck
Frank
On Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:51:32 -0700, ne3...@aol.com (NE333RO) wrote:
> Hi all. I was involved in a head-on car crash in April of this year and
>since have had numbness at the tips of my left thumb, my right thumb, and the
>first two fingers (middle and pointer) on my right hand. Nerve conduction tests
>have shown mild to severe nerve disruption and the doctor has diagnosed this as
>carpal tunnel syndrome. Up to the day of the accident I had never had any kind
>of problem like this in 17 years of making a living on the bench, but from that
>day on this has been a constant problem. The doctor, however, thinks that this
>would have happened eventually anyway and that the accident only hastened the
>event.
C M
<PWR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:17:42 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry C M
><copper_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'm sorry to tell you that your doctor is wrong. I'd change
>>>doctors quickly. I'm afraid that you have whiplash, an injury of the
>>>spinal cord. I'm not a doctor so I could be wrong, but that is far
>>>more likely than CPS which is usually caused by excessive repeated
>>>movements such as working on a keyboard all day everyday. ...
>
>>>... I think he's mistaken. Badly mistaken. Last I heard, CPS caused
>>>pain not numbness. My mother has a similar problem to yours and it
>>>was caused by an auto accident. I suppose you're in an HMO?
>
>Um... While it certainly could be that the doctor is wrong, I'd put my bets
>with the doctor. After all, unlike copper here, HE went to med school, and has
>seen a lot more CTS than only his mother's problems. His knowledge of CPS is
>based on solid training, cases he's seen, and hopefully actual knowledge of the
>condition, not on "what he's heard". Plus he's seen and evaluated the patient,
>the symptoms, and the various test results.
>
I may not have gone to med school, but I've gone to enough doctors
to know much better than to take their opinion without a large grain
of salt. I've had to deal with too many misdiagnoses to accept a flat
statement. And frankly I know lots of people with CTS(most of my
friends work in the computer industry writing code) and the symptoms
don't sound right to me. It does however sound like my mother who was
also in a car accident and now has little or feeling left in her hands
and a large loss of fine control. Four doctors called it whiplash.
Don't ever settle for one opinion from a generalist on something that
important.
LeeCo11
>tingling. I had symptoms of carpal tunnel at one point and it was the
>tingling
>really
>happens in Carpal Tunnel, but I suspect it does). Ever play out in the snow
>as
>a kid and then try to tie your boots up after your hands have been exposed to
>the cold for some time? To this day I can't do it! When you have that
>tingling
>you're losing some feeling. At first you can forge ahead, but after a long
>time
>the tingling becomes a lack of feeling and so forth. I worry, and I'm sure
>most
>do, more about the tingling than about the pain. I'm glad this thread has
>become what it has become.
>
>-jeff
>
>PS: I'm going to really examine what Peter said about "working too hard" and
>letting your tools do the work. Makes a lot of sense.
I think you missed a very important point in Ron't statement.
>I realized that the whole damn work bench needed to be re-thought. <g>
>>There may a 'norm' but only the 'average' person fits that description.
>>Give some thought to it and by trial and error, saw and shim, you can
>>relieve on hell of a lot of stress and distress in you work environment.
A lot of the problems arise from poor working conditions. By that I don't mean
working for a mean boss or sweatshop conditions but bad sitting positions or
wrong working techniques. I know when I designed a bench for myself I made it
a little higher than the normal because that was more comfortable at the time
for the work I was doing. A friend of mine was complaining about back pain
after working at the bench for an extended period. I made her some extention
feet out of 2x4s that attached to the existing legs. By raising the bench
3inches it changed her sitting position and eliminated her back pain.
This also goes with what Peter said about letting the tools do all the work.
For instance when you are piercing you should be able to hold the saw handle
with only lightly using only 3 fingers. Moving it up and down from the elbow
and guiding the piece with the other hand. You will be surprised how much less
fatigue you will feel in you hand and as a side effect you will notice your
work is better as well.
For people who sit at a computer all day doctors say to avoid back pain and CTS
to keep changing the position of your chair and hands. Maybe we should follow
this advice doing bench work too.
Just MHO,
Lee
Peter W. Rowe
<copper_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:51:48 -0700, Peter W. Rowe
>><PWR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:17:42 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry C M
>>><copper_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry to tell you that your doctor is wrong. I'd change
>>>>>doctors quickly. ...[snip]
>>>
>>>Um... While it certainly could be that the doctor is wrong, I'd put my bets
>>>with the doctor. ....[snip]
>>>
>> I may not have gone to med school, but I've gone to enough doctors
>>to know much better than to take their opinion without a large grain
>>of salt. I've had to deal with too many misdiagnoses to accept a flat
>>statement. And frankly I know lots of people with CTS(most of my
>>friends work in the computer industry writing code) and the symptoms
>>don't sound right to me. It does however sound like my mother who was
>>also in a car accident and now has little or feeling left in her hands
>>and a large loss of fine control. Four doctors called it whiplash.
>>Don't ever settle for one opinion from a generalist on something that
>>important.
I agree completely, that anyone dealing with doctors needs to keep their mind
turned on, and if a diagnosis doesn't seem right, or a treatment is not working
as it was expected, to be willing to question the experts. As someone who's
been dealing with juvenile diabetes for 31 years, with all it's attendant side
effects, including a number of them neurological in nature, I'll be the first to
tell you that any health care process, from diagnosis on, is most likely to be
effective when the patient is an active part of the process. You need to take
charge of your own health care from the very start. And you need to understand
that doctors, even highly competent ones, very much CAN be wrong, and that it's
not so uncommon. My brother, a highly respected local cardiologist in this
area, will also be among the first to agree that medicine is often a mix of
knowledge and best guesses, and that sometimes, nobody every can be quite sure
what's going on with some conditions. There is much about the body that is not
yet known.
However, I do mean to question the "blanket" nature of CM's posting, which, from
a single newsgroup description of a situation, was enough to cause him to
outright state that the doctor WAS WRONG. Not that the doctor MIGHT be wrong,
but WAS, and that the patient should immedietly change doctors. That's an
extremist statement not yet, in my view, supported by the information we have
available. It's entirely valid to suggest that the doctor may be wrong,
illustrated by ones one personal experience of what seems a better answer. But
as I said before, none of us have actually evaluated the situation in person.
The initial post did mention that the condition has been evaluated enough to
have included nerve conduction tests, which are not a completely trivial test,
and suggest to me, at least, that this diagnosis is not merely the off hand
quick opinion of some generalist. Plus, "Copper" now says that his mother's
condition is a large loss of both fine sensation and fine control, and in both
hands. THAT sounds to me far more consistent with a neck injury than is only
the numbness appearing in only one hand....
I think perhaps the best approach to this is to acknowledge that we all may have
personal experiences with this or similar symptoms, and that a recounting of
what we've heard or seen or experienced can help suggest possibilities to the
person now trying to figure out their own condition. But I also think we should
recognize the limitations of this type of communication (newsgroups/email), and
understand that there are limitations as to the degree to which any of us should
try to play doctor, when we have neither the patient to observe or the actual
test results to evaluate.
An similar example.... So far as I know, few, if any of us are medical doctors,
but many of us are highly skilled and trained jewelers. If someone comes on
this newsgroup with a question like, "my ring needed repairs, and now looks
different, did the jeweler mess up?", few of us would render a responsible
opinion about this, even with more description of the situation, unless we were
sure we knew the whole story. There are things we would wish to observe about
the ring, and it's repair, that are not likely to have been described to us in
that question, as a non trained poster won't know to look. Few of us would
hazard a "yes" or "no" answer to that question on first reading such a general
question.
Medicine is a lot more complex, in such evaluations, than would be the ring
repair. Anyone care to disagree?
Peter Rowe
Fishbre396
writes:
>Wrong: Or partly wrong. CTS can in fact do both. Pain and numbness. I know. I
>just went through Re-Hab after surgery for CTS.
Since symptoms appeared AFTER a car accident, my guess would be that it
symptoms weren't caused by CTS.
Please explain what your symptoms were . ..
Bethkatz
In the discussion of CTS I noticed that a medical specialty doctor that was not
mentioned is Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.
This type of specialty has a different way of looking at the problem than an
orthopaedist. Also a really good person (Dr.) to consult is a PMR who
specializes in sports medicine.
My two cents for someone who has good results on treatment for CTS.
Ronald Arney
Jeff I'm in the middle of trying to reproduce from memory a chain I made
9-10 years ago, and just taking a break. Forgive me if I ramble.
"Jeff - jewelrylife.com" wrote:
>
> 20985Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:18:02 -0700
Snip
> Damn warrior! <g>
So true. So true. <g> Aside from not trusting them pesky Hippy Draftees
to fight my war, would you believe one of the reasons I fought my way off
two Body Levies to Germany, and volenteered for Vietnam, was because it
Snows in Germany? I hate Snow. and I came to El Paso, Texas, after a
friend of mine told me during the flood of Noah's day, El Paso only got
3/10th on a inch <g> because I'm too fond of wet either.
Of course 'it's not all about Pain,' nor is this thread all about Carpal
Tunnel Syndrome, and I think one of the things we dare not lose sight of,
as regards this thread, is the fact that the preface concerned an Auto
Accident. I'm with Peter regarding that aspect, Let the Doctors doctor.
As for the direction this thread has taken, I'm more concerned with ways
to avoid the onset of pain because of things like CTS. Be it numbness,
tingling or pain, CTS or Arthritis, these things, for me, are a
distraction I don't need. For one thing, <g> I tend to use them as an
excuse to Self-Medicate, and while it is a fact that some of my finest,
most beautiful and creative work has been done under the influence of
spirits and other herbel remedies, it's not always been exactly what the
customers ordered, if you know what I mean? Artistic License has no place
in custom work.
I can work through the pain if I must, but I try to avoid it. Pain makes
me angry and anti-social, and I've noticed work I produce in anger appeals
to a segment of the buying public I'm not particulary interested in
courting.
Enough psychedelic psycho babble.
The traditional jeweler's bench is a work of art. Too bad they don't build
them the way they used to. Real wood, rock solid and sturdy enough to
allow a person to saw, file and do a limited amount of pounding without
disturbing a work in progress. A great setup for producing things one of
a kind, or one at a time. The last one I looked at one with any interest,
about ten years ago, was used, and I don't blame the girl for wanting to
get rid of it. A solid tap with one finger was enough to make a penny
bounce. Trying to do good work under the kind of stress and tension such
a work station induces is enough to make the best of us cramp up, no
matter what we're doing.
Jeff I have some things I want to say about sawing and filing, but I just
remembered how I made some of the elements of that darn chain, I'll get
back...
Ron
>
> Anyway, Ron, it's not all about Pain. As the original post states,
> there is tingling. I had symptoms of carpal tunnel at one point and
> it was the tingling that bothered me. Try to look at it this way (and
> I don't know if this really happens in Carpal Tunnel, but I suspect it
> does). Ever play out in the snow as a kid and then try to tie your
> boots up after your hands have been exposed to the cold for some time?
> To this day I can't do it! When you have that tingling you're losing
> some feeling. At first you can forge ahead, but after a long time
> the tingling becomes a lack of feeling and so forth. I worry, and I'm
? sure most do, more about the tingling than about the pain. I'm glad
? this thread has become what it has become.
>
> -jeff
>
> PS: I'm going to really examine what Peter said about "working too
> hard" and letting your tools do the work. Makes a lot of sense.
>
NE333RO
>symptoms weren't caused by CTS.
I dont much doubt the doctors' diagnosis. I got the same diagnosis from a
D.O., a neurologist, and the guy that read the nerve conduction test (dont
remember what kind of doc he was). My disagreement was more along the lines of
whether it would have happened anyway because of the job (the accident just
hastened it), or whether it happened because of the accident.
The neurologist was of the opinion that I probably would have had problems
eventually anyway. I disagreed because I had no previous discomfort. I was just
curious to see if it was a problem that I had never heard about among jewelers.
>Please explain what your symptoms were
Symptoms include occassional serious (dehabilating) pain in the wrists and
thumbs. This pain comes and goes and doesnt seem to have any connection with
how hard I use my hands. I also have numbness in the tips of my left thumb,
right thumb, and the first two fingers (pointer and middle) of my right hand.
Like Ron, I have a high threashold of pain and can usually work through
pain or come up with an alternative way to do something. My main problem seems
to be the numbness. Although I've done little benchwork since the accident, I
seem to have problems with minipulating small objects. The loss of sensation is
causing me to have a hard time judging pressure and feel when working with
tweezers, small watch parts, and small stones (among other things). Its a bit
like trying to wear gloves while working.
As for whiplash and some of the other things mentioned, I do have some soft
tissue damage to the neck and some of the symptoms are reminisent of when I
herniated a disc playing rugby. They did take x-rays and MRI's that showed no
new cervical damage or any damage to the old fusion. I would have to assume the
doctors took that into account when making the diagnosis.
Jeff - jewelrylife.com
>So true. So true. <g> Aside from not trusting them pesky Hippy Draftees
>to fight my war, would you believe one of the reasons I fought my way off
>two Body Levies to Germany, and volenteered for Vietnam, was because it
>Snows in Germany? I hate Snow. and I came to El Paso, Texas, after a
>friend of mine told me during the flood of Noah's day, El Paso only got
>3/10th on a inch <g> because I'm too fond of wet either.
Ron, I'm sure you have enough stories to fill the most romantic (loosely
defined) book on jewelry and the life of its maker ever known to man.
>
>Of course 'it's not all about Pain,' nor is this thread all about Carpal
>Tunnel Syndrome, and I think one of the things we dare not lose sight of,
>as regards this thread, is the fact that the preface concerned an Auto
>Accident. I'm with Peter regarding that aspect, Let the Doctors doctor.
Agreed, if I listened to myself I'd be dead 7 years ago.
>tingling or pain, CTS or Arthritis, these things, for me, are a
>distraction I don't need. For one thing, <g> I tend to use them as an
>excuse to Self-Medicate, and while it is a fact that some of my finest,
>most beautiful and creative work has been done under the influence of
>spirits and other herbel remedies,
I only wish I could self-medicate on Sunday morning, coming down. Short of two
bloody mary's, I still don't know how to do it.
it's not always been exactly what the
>customers ordered, if you know what I mean? Artistic License has no place
>in custom work.
Too bad the things that make the most business sense make absolutely no artistic
sense. As I write I am trying to convey to a pair of lovers the design behind a
custom design. One minute they want Tanzanites, two of them side by side in
individual bezels (huh?), and the next minute they want one Tanzanite and one
Onyx. One minute they want all Platinum, and the next minute they want Gold and
Silver. Ultimately I am going to design this piece for them and hopefully
they'll still feel like it's THEIR custom design. Custom or not, what I sell to
them better look good. I have a feeling I'll go full circle with them and
they'll end up wanting a portrait of George Washington etched in Platinum with
Diamonds where old George's eyes should be.
>
>I can work through the pain if I must, but I try to avoid it. Pain makes
>me angry and anti-social, and I've noticed work I produce in anger appeals
>to a segment of the buying public I'm not particulary interested in
>courting.
I have absolutely no control for my anger. My poor car looks like it was in
Beirut during the 80's.
>
>Enough psychedelic psycho babble.
>
>The traditional jeweler's bench is a work of art. Too bad they don't build
>them the way they used to. Real wood, rock solid and sturdy enough to
>allow a person to saw, file and do a limited amount of pounding without
>disturbing a work in progress. A great setup for producing things one of
>a kind, or one at a time. The last one I looked at one with any interest,
>about ten years ago, was used, and I don't blame the girl for wanting to
>get rid of it. A solid tap with one finger was enough to make a penny
>bounce. Trying to do good work under the kind of stress and tension such
>a work station induces is enough to make the best of us cramp up, no
>matter what we're doing.
>
>Jeff I have some things I want to say about sawing and filing, but I just
>remembered how I made some of the elements of that darn chain, I'll get
>back...
>
>Ron
>
What chain? <g>
-jeff
Ronald Arney
"Jeff - jewelrylife.com" wrote:
>
Snip
> >
> >Jeff I have some things I want to say about sawing and filing, but I just
> >remembered how I made some of the elements of that darn chain, I'll get
> >back...
> >
> >Ron
> >
> What chain? <g>
>
> -jeff
<Chuckle> I still have some things to say about pain and sawing and filing
but, About that chain: Ever get a letter asking, in effect, 'remember
that thing you made me in another lifetime? Well I want you to make
another one like it for my daughter's birthday.'
<g> I wonder how the Aussie I bought the parcel of opal from would react,
if I send him a letter asking likewise about the pendant stone? The Land
of Oz has such choice and wondrously imponderable expletives, it might be
worth the price of a stamp to find out. Nah. He might retaliate with Roo
pooh or Dingo dung.
Ah, the thrill of the chase.
Ron
Jewels1407
believe the accident maybe irriated a previous condition of which now you
notice... but at any rate..
My story is I started Jewelry school in 97. In the 2 years I experienced
pain while learning the trade. I thought I just simply needed to build more
muscle in my hands being a woman and not having strong hands. Now after
reading this posting and going threw jewelry school.... I know that the using
the saw especially can be stressful on the ol wrist. (to name just one)
Technique is the key. Doing a job in the "correct form" is something I was
taught in school.
I did have a stone setting job earlier this year, and I experienced the same
symptoms you did. I was setting 4 prong posts with holding the posts in my
hands with my finger tips. During the process, I am using the felx shaft, and
having a dealth grip on those 4 prong post. By the end of the day, my pointer
finger and thumb were numb at the ends!! I had tingling at around 3 or 4 hours
of doing this job during the day.. then they went numb. I was concerned with
this. I thought there has to be a better way of setting these 4 prongs that
will be just as quick. But once I finished all those 4 prongs (90 pairs) I
didn't seem to have the sensation any more.
I have sinse quit the job because I did not like working in a manufacturing
setting and didn't feel welcome there. But I hope to get back into bench work.
This subject concerns me though.
Jewel...@aol.com
BeckiBead
(when I used to work a real job instead of making jewelry for a living) and
improperly resting my mouse hand on the desk than I ever got from making
jewelry. Even long hours twisting wires doesn't come close. But the few times
I have gotten past tingling and pain all the way to numbness (which is a real
serious indication of pain), it was because I had either completely re-aligned
all the muscles in my arm so that nothing was in proper order anymore or had
pinched a nerve, and the tingling, pain and numbness was a result of the
pinched nerve. Both of these scenarios are solved regularly, at least for me,
by a polarity therapist. I also have a tendancy to put out my hip and
mis-align (I can't think of a better word for this) the muscles in the right
leg, the leg with my bad knee, by walking improperly. She can fix all that
too.