Worden and Odyssey Lamps
Michael
Odyssey are two of the major players. I would appreciate any feedback
you might have on the quality of the forms and patterns provided by
the two companies.
Michael
javahut
"Michael" <zsp...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:1186097617.8...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Both are good, depends on what you want.
If you want a lamp that is pretty and colorful and you don't particularly
care if it looks old and collectible, build a Worden and enjoy the glass
choices and have fun with it.
If you want a very accurate Tiffany reproduction, in pattern, and use glass
that is appropriate to the design and era in which it was originally
conceived, then go for the Odyssey.
Which ever one you chose, use a full round mold, the sectional things are a
PIA to work with, but can be done, just takes more fooling around to get
them accurate and straight.
I have built a few hundred lamps, don't count or keep track in particular,
but have a scrapbook full of pictures.........
glassman
Home shopping network..... 800 pieces of art glass, not the best but not
terrible craftsmanship..... $59.95.... including the base! OUCH...
--
JK Sinrod
www.SinrodStudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com
Moonraker
Have you already finished that transom window?
Pay attention to what javahut told you about forms. He knows his stuff...
neogl...@peak.org
If you decide that you want to use Worden forms and you want the
sectional, then buy enough sectionals to make a 360 degree mold.
Otherwise you can run into a lot of pain trying to get each section to
line up with the next one. Might cost a little more but it'll make
your lamp building a better experience. With the Worden molds you have
the ability to make several different designs on one mold. I prefer
the Odyssey because of the durability but with some care the Worden
molds can be used many times. I think everyone who's doing stained
glass should build at least one Tiffany style lamp.
Glassman@work
<neogl...@peak.org> wrote in message
news:1186156579....@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
What about those Rainbow/Studio Design one piece plastic lamp forms? I
made lots of those in years past.
javahut
"Glassman@work" <jksinrod*SPAM*@aol.com> wrote in message
news:YtIsi.75$jQ3.41@trndny06...
Whittemore -Durgin? those made nice lamps too. and were easy to work with,
just had to be careful with the soldering iron.
You can take a shape you like, create it with a stiff material like paper
mache and build on that, use wood if you have a big-azz lathe too. The
possibilities are endless, but the easiest have been mentioned. Why
re-invent the wheel? but then if you are the curious, ambitious type, there
are methods to the madness.....
Michael
I have built a few hundred lamps, don't count or keep track in
particular, but have a scrapbook full of pictures.........
*************
Wow! That's impressive. Especially considering the major amount of
work that must go into each one.
And thank you for the comparison between Worden and Odyssey. I think
I'll start with a small Worden with a fairly simple design and decide
where to go from there.
Thank you, Michael
Michael
Have you already finished that transom window?
***************
Thank you for asking! The short answer is no. I was over at the
local stained glass store the day after we got back from Florida. I
had to order the white, the red, and the blue. I had enough yellow
and green from way back when. It's going to be about four weeks.
>From another glass company in Bloomington I ordered a 2' x 2' plate
for a light box. I was amazed they didn't have it in stock and had to
order it. Be about a week.
I've been killing time putting together some new designs and learning
some of the intricacies of Glass Eye, but I got impatient and decided
I couldn't wait four weeks to make something so I settled on a Glass
Eye example that I can put in one of the glass-paneled cabinet doors
we've got over an island in the kitchen. I came home with the glass
today and tomorrow morning I'm going to try my luck at printing out
the pattern. Wahoo! I'm excited. I've also got to get a small work
bench built to cut and assemble on, but I'll improvise until that's
done.
Thanks, Michael
javahut
one. If the pattern that you chose has so few pieces as to make the pieces
large, "left to right" then you will have to center them to make them go
around the curve/circumference of the lamp, sort of "balance" them on the
curve. There are easier ways to learn than to chose a pattern where you
need to do that. AN example is the 13 in Worden WOODBINE or the Odyssey 16
in Woodbine, a certain balance of the pieces must occur. As a beginning
pattern I would chose something that has more pieces and forego that part of
learning, it is frustrating to tip them all the time instead of
concentrating on your glass and its design.
The important thing of lamp building is to learn and to enjoy the
process...I have yet to build one where I wouldn't do something a little
different to improve the one I just finished, when I do it again.
howard
I have built a few lampshades over the past 25 or so years.
about 1,080 or so, many have been one to three hour start to finish time
panel lamps
about 150 have been Odyssey
about 200 or so Worden, many before the "full form" styrofoam was developed
what shade do you have in mind?
how deep are your pockets?
do you have a follow up shade (same size) in mind?
worden's can have the pattern exchanged
odyssey tend towards using the same pattern only for the given form
For me (re-sale) Odyssey is only way to go as most of the retail
purchasers' need the reinforcement of seeing the expensive shade they
are buying illustrated in any of about 3 major Tiffany Shade Art books.
More questions? ask here or try direct to me
Howard
Michael
my glasscutting skills. They were pretty darned rusty. I've got a
Worden Tulip mold coming. I was careful (I hope) to not get one with
too big of pieces like javahut suggested. I could just wait until it
gets here and read the directions first, but I do have question. A
book I was recently looking at showed the only thing supporting the
lamp as a metal cap soldered onto the top. Is that really enough to
support a lamp? I notice that the Odyssey lamps have got a cap, a
ring, and something else supporting the lamp.
The people I ordered the mold from recommended that I get the 4" cap
for the top and support it from the bottom with a slightly larger cap,
and somehow squish them together. Does this sound valid?
Thank you, Michael
Javahut
Sure it will work, but keep in mind the forces on your lamp, that method
will work IF you do some things similar to what they did back in the good
ole days, that are brought forward with methods similar to what Odyssey is
doing.
When you build your shade, at the aperture ring, or top opening, solder in a
heavy copper or brass ring. of some kind. Years ago we used number 10
copper wire, bent around a propane tank, or something similar. Use 1/8 in
welding rod or brass rod from the hardware store, bend it around something
slightly larger in diameter, and squeeze it into size just before installing
it, and solder it in place.
I want to emphasize this, but not be mistaken for yelling, ONLY TACK IT IN
3 PLACES equidistant around the circumference of the ring until the shade is
off the mold. attach the bottom rim to the shade THEN level the shade by
the aperture ring. If you run into trouble when you get to that point, post
but DO NOT fill that gap between ring and glass before you post that you are
confused. The solution is very simple, but if you fill the solder area in
first, it is much more work.
Once that ring is in place, if you want to use a "wheel" as does odyssey ,
or use another cap under with one over it, you can do so easily without fear
that the upward pull of the bottom cap, and the downward sucking of the
earth,(gravity) along with the weight of those 3 lbs of solder pulling
downward, won't pull the bottom cap right up thru your fine tight lines on
the lamp shade.
Is that detail enough? Feel like somebody asked what time it was and I told
them how to build a watch, sorry about that, I must be "jonesing" from no
activity on the board in so long!! not even a good catfight.
Moonraker
"Javahut" <not...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:fbl1a...@news2.newsguy.com...
Michael
Is that detail enough? Feel like somebody asked what time it was and
I told them how to build a watch, sorry about that, I must be
"jonesing" from no activity on the board in so long!! not even a good
catfight.
***************
Thank you! I do have an additional question. Is the copper or brass
ring something that should always be used in addition to a single cap,
or are you saying this is an additional piece I should use if I am
using two caps, one on top and one on bottom?
Michael
glassman
> my glasscutting skills. They were pretty darned rusty. I've got a
> Worden Tulip mold coming. I was careful (I hope) to not get one with
> too big of pieces like javahut suggested. I could just wait until it
> gets here and read the directions first, but I do have question. A
> book I was recently looking at showed the only thing supporting the
> lamp as a metal cap soldered onto the top. Is that really enough to
> support a lamp?
A copperfoil lamp with a cap is enough for most. We solder a thin wire
around the skirt as well to keep it from separating years down the road.
Javahut
Should always be used......think about it for a second, the glass at the top
is only attached , to anything, by the single solder line attached to a thin
piece of tape. the ring acts a unifying structural element so that a cap or
wheel or what ever is exerting pressure on the whole area instead of one
spot.
It looks good too, if done with some finesse.
Michael
thought, and the idea of just the cap soldered to the top of thin
copper tape with adhesive holding it onto a few small glass pieces is
scary, even if they are reinforced with a fat coating of solder. I am
going to be inclined to reinforce as much as I can without impacting
the aesthetics. I would probably go with the ring/wheel/cap Olympia
setup except the combo for a 4 inch set is over $50. At least on my
first few lamps I'm not going to be concerned with matching originals,
so that's just a little heavy on the cost.
I am going to go with your suggestions. A wire ring soldered in the
center and maybe the second lower cap sound like a sturdy but low
dollar solution. I also like the idea of soldering a thin wire around
the skirt.
Thanks again, Michael
glassman
I've made not hundreds but thousands of lamps. All had one cap on top
soldered into all the meeting leadlines. Haven't had one come back in over
30 years. But..................... I fix about 1 lamp a week that was made
overseas where the cap popped off. The most common reasons are: the cap
was tacked in only a few places and the customer used a 200 watt bulb. By
all means do what you like, overkill is a good thing when you don't need to
make money on it.
Michael
Like a child on Christmas morning. My 16" Worden tulip lamp mold
came, too. I about passed out from shock when I saw it uses over 500
parts. Darn! I never imagined so many pieces. None of the cuts are
difficult. Just small pieces so accuracy will count.
I didn't see any recommendation on copper tape size. Maybe I didn't
look close enough. I figure 3/16". Does that sound right?
Thanks, Michael
Javahut
Stipple, you may want to re-think that, unless you like real tiny lead
lines. remember, the lead line is the support and skeleton of the shade,
don't under estimate the importance of those lines.
another bit of advice, don't count pieces,
just build it because you like it, and stay at it until it is done. Little
bit every day.
Did you say you wanted a Wisteria? got that too.
Michael
...don't count pieces, just build it because you like it, and stay at
it until it is done. Little bit every day. Did you say you wanted a
Wisteria? got that too.
****************
What a great piece of advice! I went over to the local glass shop and
sat and went through the sample boxes for Spectrum, Kokomo, Bullseye,
and a couple others looking for the glass I want to use for the Worden
Tulip. I found a few, but not many. All that glass and I couldn't
put my finger on the dramatic dark green that I see in so many lamps
as leaves and grass.
And nope, don't want a Wisteria. For some reason or other, they just
don't strike my fancy. But there must be a dozen or more others that
I would like to have.
I've got a few first impression comments on the Worden mold I got a
couple days back. I've never made a Tiffany-style lamp (only a couple
geometric ones), but I've got to say that I'm not really happy with
the Worden lamp mold I got. I've got to pin the paper design on a
styrofoam mold in little strips. First, I see the paper getting
soaked with flux. Then I see the mold melting from heat. Something
else I don't like is the small variation I'm going to get in
dimensions by having to pin the design on there in little pieces. I'm
thinking the fixed fiberglass Odyssey molds are going to be much more
to my liking.
Michael
Glassman@work
>
>
> I've got a few first impression comments on the Worden mold I got a
> couple days back. I've never made a Tiffany-style lamp (only a couple
> geometric ones), but I've got to say that I'm not really happy with
> the Worden lamp mold I got. I've got to pin the paper design on a
> styrofoam mold in little strips. First, I see the paper getting
> soaked with flux. Then I see the mold melting from heat. Something
> else I don't like is the small variation I'm going to get in
> dimensions by having to pin the design on there in little pieces. I'm
> thinking the fixed fiberglass Odyssey molds are going to be much more
> to my liking.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
Yes the Worden pattern system sucks, but it's cheap, and there are ways
to work around the problems. The old original Worden system had each design
painted on the styrofoam which was easier, but still fit was not exact.
Check out Rainbow, or Studio design in NJ. They had their own 3d plastic
molds that are somewhere between Worden & Odyssey in price and workability.
Michael
Check out Rainbow, or Studio design in NJ. They had their own 3d
plastic molds that are somewhere between Worden & Odyssey in price and
workability.
*****************
I might try them after a while, but first I'm going to give the
Odysseys a shot. I've decided on what I want. I want the 22"
Dragonfly and the 28" Peony, please. They are both present designs
viewable on the web page you posted earlier. Email me at
miker_...@yahoo.com and I'll either send you a check or maybe you
can take a credit card.
Thanks, Michael
Michael
confusion.
Michael
Javahut
> Whoops! That should have been steered towards Javahut. Sorry for the
> confusion.
>
> Michael
Michael
tonight. After cutting some, out of curiousity I matched up one of
the pattern pieces to its spot on the form and discovered that there
is a significant discrepancy. I'm going to have to check the entire
pattern against the form and alter the pattern piece if need be.
Michael
Michael
on. Here's a view of one-third of the pattern laid out on a table:
http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa232/robisonmr/?action=view¤t=Tulip_lamp_2.jpg
Yesterday I cut all the form patterns out and pinned them onto the
mold with a base layer of silicone caulking. This morning I pulled
the pins holding them in place and smeared another layer of silicone
over the top. The form is styrofoam and I'm hoping this will help
prevent the solder tacks from leaking through and burning it. We'll
see.
When the top silicone layer dried, I started fitting and tacking on
the pieces. I got the first row done. Kinda slow going. Fit, grind,
tape, tack. This is my first Tiffany-style lamp. I'm having a lot of
fun with it. I've made some minor mistakes, but nothing major so far.
Michael
Michael
from when I started cutting on it, seven of those gone on travel.
Here's a picture of my first Tiffany, lit by 100 watts:
http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa232/robisonmr/?action=view¤t=Tulip_small.jpg
Still gotta do the finish soldering and give it a bath. My wife
picked out a base for it, a #9806 19" Nouveau from GlassCrafters.
Gotta gigantic 28" Odyssey peony to start some time this weekend.
Michael
glassman
Very nice job for a 1st lamp!
Michael
Very nice job for a 1st lamp!
**************
Thank you for the kind words, JK. I had a lot of help from the good
folks in the group here. Of course, the light is kind and tends to
draw attention to the glass instead of the workmanship. There are
some gaps between pieces that are too big. I'm also not totally
thrilled with a couple of my glass choices.
This next lamp will be a different experience, being an Odyssey
instead of a Worden. On the Worden I did the fit, grind, foil, and
solder in many iterations. With the Odyssey I plan on coating the
mold with beeswax and sticking the parts on there and fitting and
grinding and then foiling them all at once and then soldering all at
once. I'm thinking this will prove to be a more efficient method.
The Odyssey is also going to hang from the ceiling, so I'm going to
get some experience with the mechanics of that.
Michael
glassman
> JK wrote:
>
> Very nice job for a 1st lamp!
>
> **************
> Thank you for the kind words, JK. I had a lot of help from the good
> folks in the group here. Of course, the light is kind and tends to
> draw attention to the glass instead of the workmanship. There are
> some gaps between pieces that are too big.
You'll always be your harshest critic. 99.9% of folks that look at what
you make will only see the pretty glass.... you will see the workmanship.