tempered glass question
Maxine
I recently ordered custom glass shower doors. They are each approximately 7
by 2.5 feet. Clear glass. One side is stationary, basically a glass wall.
It has a clamp holding it in place top and bottom. The other half is a
hinged door, 2 large hinges hold it in place against the tile wall. Those
hinges support the door in its entirety.
After it was installed, I noticed a definite bow in the glass door. When the
door is shut in such a way that the top and bottom of the door is aligned
with the glass wall, the centre of the door bows inward a quarter of an
inch. It doesn't look very good and of course it leaks.
I called the company and they came to look at it. They said that when glass
is tempered, it comes out of the machine with a slight bow. The wall part
isn't as noticeable because it is clamped top and bottom, but the door can't
be helped. They also said it would straighten up somewhat over time, but it
will never be perfect. They said this standard and couldn't be helped.
True or not? This cost me $700 so I need to know I'm not getting ripped
off.
Anybody knowledgeable about this?
Thanks in advance
BioChem Glass
Sounds like you're being ripped to me........$700 phew! get them to
prove thats like that with all of those doors.
If I want flat, I get Flat glass, and at that cost I want gold trim
regards
Bill
(Scientific Glassblower)
Platypus Art Glass
I am not an expert concerning glass.
However, in my opinion, another hinge or two along the edge of the sagging door
will provide more support for the weight of the glass door.
Since your door is 7 feet tall, and is only supported on one side with two
hinges, this is not enough to support the weight of the glass door without the
door being "flexible" on its length. Which causes the bow.
More hinges, or one solid piano-type hinge along the entire length should hold
the door more rigidly along its length and allow it to line up correctly with
the other stationary piece of glass.
If what the installers told you was true, the other piece would be bowed as
well, but it is not since it is supported on two sides the top and bottom.
This allows the glass to stand rigidly without bowing.
If you think about it logistically, a regular wooden door for exterior use has
three hinges, interior hollow -core doors have two.
Since glass is heavier than a solid wood door, it definitley needs more hinges
to hold it plumb.
Tell the company you bought it from to install at least two more hinges on the
door.
All sheet glass is flexible, tempered or not. Their excuse and blame on the
manufacturer of the tempered glass is an attempt at covering their shoddy
installation.
They should have known that the glass would bow badly if not adequately
supported to hold to stabile and rigid.
The bowing is from the weight of the glass upon itself, not from the
manufacture of the glass. Wood, metal, plastic, etc, will all bow if not
properly mounted and supported.
If you have problems with the company making it right, then get a civil
engineer or archtectual engineer to look at it and give a report. That should
satisfy any doubts the installers will have.
BTW, $700.00 does not sound out of range for glass this size that is tempered.
Free your mind and your glass will follow.
Paul E. Mullen Jr.
Artist-Craftsman
Platypus Art Glass
nietz...@hotmail.com
plat...@aol.com
Randy Hansen
again. They clearly screwed it up.
Maxine wrote in message <85ngj1$j6p$1...@cougar.golden.net>...
Bob Duchesneau
I have four sheets of 3/16" tempered glass that measure 28 X 72"s and are
perfectly flat. You see perfectly flat tempered glass every day in store
windows, etc.
Do not accept crap from these jabronies. Get your local building department
involved if necessary. Do you have a permit? The strain of tempered glass
should be equal on both sides and the glass flat.
Bob in 92026
Rebecca Marvel
Maxine wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me if this is true...
>
> I recently ordered custom glass shower doors. They are each approximately 7
> by 2.5 feet. Clear glass. One side is stationary, basically a glass wall.
> It has a clamp holding it in place top and bottom. The other half is a
> hinged door, 2 large hinges hold it in place against the tile wall. Those
> hinges support the door in its entirety.
I am going to assume that your glass is 1/2" thick.... I assume this
only because of the size and the fact that it sounds like a "frameless"
unit and generally frameless units are made of 1/2" tempered glass.
> I called the company and they came to look at it. They said that when glass
> is tempered, it comes out of the machine with a slight bow. The wall part
> isn't as noticeable because it is clamped top and bottom, but the door can't
> be helped. They also said it would straighten up somewhat over time, but it
> will never be perfect. They said this standard and couldn't be helped.
I have been working with tempered glass (1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8"
and 3/4") for 10 years. EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF TEMPERED GLASS I HAVE
EVER SEEN has a bow to it - the bow is less in 3/4" and 1/2" glass but
it is very APPARENT in 1/8 and 1/4". The heavier the glass the more
"pitting" occurs also (small dimples in the glass - the side that was
against the rollers into the tempering oven)...
The bow/ripple of the glass is very apparent in the sunlight.
> True or not? This cost me $700 so I need to know I'm not getting ripped
> off.
>
> Anybody knowledgeable about this?
>
> Thanks in advance
If the installation, hardware (hinges, "U" channel, handle(s), etc.) and
glass all cost you $700.00 I don't think you got ripped at all....
PLEASE NOTE that my assumption of 1/2" glass applies here.
I've seen frameless showers made of 3/8" glass also and if this is the
case, IMO you paid a little too much..... if your shower is made of 3/8"
glass, the bow after tempering will be worse and perhaps cause your
leakage.
As far as the bow/leaking problem, your installer should be able to
adjust the hinges and shim the fixed panel to fix this problem... BUT I
don't know where and how it is leaking so this may not be the case.
Hope this helps
Rebecca
Bert Weiss
I won't comment on whether or not you are being ripped off. The frameless
door hardware is expensive. When glass is being tempered it is heated just
above the softening point. It is common for it to bend a bit. There are a
few different methods for tempering glass. The type of tempering line that
produced your glass is called a shake and bake. The glass is moved back
and forth on a set of rollers,when it is being heated up, to keep the
bending to a minimum. Another type of tempering line uses tongs to hold
the glass while it is being heated. You can often see tong marks on that
type of glass. Tempered glass does not come out perfectly flat.
All of that said, I would complain to your glass installer. The glass
itself was not the largest expense in making your installation. While it
is impossible to get perfectly flat glass, you should not have a leaky
installation. If it leaks, somebody came up with a faulty design.
Bert
In article <85ngj1$j6p$1...@cougar.golden.net>, "Maxine"
<max...@friend-of-the-earth.com> wrote:
>Can anyone tell me if this is true...
>
>I recently ordered custom glass shower doors. They are each approximately 7
>by 2.5 feet. Clear glass. One side is stationary, basically a glass wall.
>It has a clamp holding it in place top and bottom. The other half is a
>hinged door, 2 large hinges hold it in place against the tile wall. Those
>hinges support the door in its entirety.
>
>After it was installed, I noticed a definite bow in the glass door. When the
>door is shut in such a way that the top and bottom of the door is aligned
>with the glass wall, the centre of the door bows inward a quarter of an
>inch. It doesn't look very good and of course it leaks.
>
>I called the company and they came to look at it. They said that when glass
>is tempered, it comes out of the machine with a slight bow. The wall part
>isn't as noticeable because it is clamped top and bottom, but the door can't
>be helped. They also said it would straighten up somewhat over time, but it
>will never be perfect. They said this standard and couldn't be helped.
>
>True or not? This cost me $700 so I need to know I'm not getting ripped
>off.
>
>Anybody knowledgeable about this?
>
>Thanks in advance
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass
Custom Productions
Furniture
Sculpture
Lighting
Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Wolfebas
middle should be enough. Third (or more) hinges are added to doors basically
to hold the door flat more than to carry extra weight. This is usual in wood
doors taller than 6'-8", whether they are solid or hollow.
John Bassett
John and Christina
barbara j cashman
Bert Weiss
Hinges for frameless shower doors are installed using drilled holes that
must be drilled before tempering. It is not possible to do this after the
fact. Thousands of these installations have been done and there are lots
of campanies making the hardware. The configurations are pretty standard.
Some tempered glass is bowed more than others. This seems to me to be the
jist of the problem.
We all owe it to each other to comment only on subjects about which we have
a clue.
Bert
In article <20000114182919...@ng-fx1.aol.com>,
wolf...@aol.comWolfeBas (Wolfebas) wrote:
Bert
Rebecca Marvel
"hinge" or clamp doesn't do much good on a big heavy door....
Platypus Art Glass
>We all owe it to each other to comment only on subjects about which we have
>a clue.
I do not really understand the reason for this comment, especialy based on past
dialogs and contributions in the NG by you.
Obviously, you have never heard of a compression hinge. Pretty common on glass
whether tempered or not. Does not require holes.
As I stated in my post I am not a glass expert, however, I can and have hung
glass, wood, plastic, and metal in vertical postions hundreds of times.
Regardless of the material, gravity will cause the material to bow, some more
than others. That is why it takes skill and talent to be able to hang doors or
other vertical applications so that the natural bow caused by gravity will be
minimized.
The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mold mix you learned at Pilchuck does work, you just do not
understand how to mix it porperly. Re-read Boyce's 3rd book Glass Casting and
Mold making.
You have found that your one element kiln is unsatisfactory, when before you
were adament that one element was all you needed.
You may or may not understand now that enamels and glass are two different
things, but at least you know that coe issues are different for both.
You now know that your great flat panel training in lead is archaic and will
indeed sag apart, regardless of 18" supports.
I coud go on and on, but rather than do that I would suggest that you look at
the archives and try and see it for yourself.
I owe it to the group and you to point this out, if you took your own advice
you are now offering to me, you obviously would not have much to say besides
recounting what others have told you.
BTW, when was the last time you hung a door? Or, any type of glass for that
matter?
>Some tempered glass is bowed more than others. This seems to me to be the
>jist of the problem.
It will not be a problem if it is installed correctly. If you have ever done
it than you would know.
At least when I state my information, I tell what my opinion is and what is
fact. Your information about hinges in tempered glass is not the only way that
glass tempered or not, is hung.
Are you miffed about something, or are you just having a bad day? You are
starting to get as bad as some others about being able to properly read posts
and replies before you state your own.
Rather than worrying about me getting a clue, why don't you try and get a clue!
Andrew T
You now know that your great flat panel training in lead is archaic and
will indeed sag apart, regardless of 18" supports.
-------------------------
For someone who has admitted that he doesn't do much or if any lead
work...how can you even comment on something as such. Properly
reinforced and well built panels will be here long after you and I are
gone. Lead is NOT dead!
Bert Weiss
I've only seen compression clamp hinges used on 1/8" glass. The CRL
catalogs have them specified for up to 5/16". All of the hinges designed
to work with 3/8" and heavier require drill holes or cutouts. Frameless
shower doors that I have seen are either 3/8" or 1/2". I'll stand by what
I said.
Platypus Art Glass
Go back and read the Lead is Dead thread. You can find it on any usenet search
site.
Therein, you will find your information about lead sagging, regardless of
reinforcement. Along with my own previous experience, the facts contained in
this thread support my opinion that lead is a bad structural material for the
fabrication of art glass panels and therefore, should not be utilized any
longer.
Besides my opinion why lead is dead, there were many others who stated other
reasons as to why lead came should not be used any longer.
I have done a lot of came work, just not a lot of lead came. This came from a
decision I made at an early age. If you care to know why than go look up the
thread called Why I Use Foil.
>.how can you even comment on something as such.
Exactly my point in my reply post to Bert. It is ludicrous to suggest to
people not to comment or provide their experience pertaining to a thread and
the many sub-topics that develop.
My statements to Bert are there to demonstrate that had he not provided his
opinion and/or information concerning those topics, he would not have ever
learned something new or changed his mind. When it is obvious that someone is
using or posting archaic information or techniques, then it is up to
participants in the group to provide information that will allow the individual
to "see the light."
This has happened to me on several occasions. Had it not been for other group
members, I would have gone on thinking the same things that were either
incorrect or outdated. Since I have been down this route with Bert on numerous
occasions, I was surprised to see his statement that people (me in particular)
should stick with what they know. If I did that I would never evolve in my
craft and art.
Bert Weiss
In article <20000115173906...@ng-fl1.aol.com>, plat...@aol.com
(Platypus Art Glass) wrote:
> Hi Bert,
>
>>We all owe it to each other to comment only on subjects about which we have
>>a clue.
>
> I do not really understand the reason for this comment, especialy based on
past
> dialogs and contributions in the NG by you.
>
> Obviously, you have never heard of a compression hinge. Pretty common on
glass
> whether tempered or not. Does not require holes.
I spoke to that in my last posting.
> As I stated in my post I am not a glass expert, however, I can and have hung
> glass, wood, plastic, and metal in vertical postions hundreds of times.
> Regardless of the material, gravity will cause the material to bow, some more
> than others. That is why it takes skill and talent to be able to hang doors
or
> other vertical applications so that the natural bow caused by gravity will be
> minimized.
>
> The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mold mix you learned at Pilchuck does work, you just do not
> understand how to mix it porperly. Re-read Boyce's 3rd book Glass Casting and
> Mold making.
I was taught 1/2 silica 1/2 plaster. If you can make it work be my guest.
i would not recommend it. It will crack. Chicken wire will hold it
together. It will need considerable finishing work. Other techniques are
much better. Read book 3 yourself.
> You have found that your one element kiln is unsatisfactory, when before you
> were adament that one element was all you needed.
I have consulted with other kiln workers and they have recommended improving
convection. My kiln is not the right shape or size for side elements. Go
ahead and use yours to your hearts content.
>
> You may or may not understand now that enamels and glass are two different
> things, but at least you know that coe issues are different for both.
Enamels and glass are both glass. I am intimate with the differences in how
they refract and reflect light. COE issues are relative to the thickness of
application. Thompson enamels have COE issues like any fusing glass.
Painting enamels work on a very wide range of glasses. Stained glass to
float glass at least. There are special enamels for borosilicates.
>
> You now know that your great flat panel training in lead is archaic and will
> indeed sag apart, regardless of 18" supports.
I know that lead came is very difficult to design properly as well as very
difficult to construct properly. Designed and built properly it will
outlast your lifertime no problem. It is not dead. It does require
classical training. Common sense guessing will not get you there. (Common
sense guessing will get you a long way with copper foil window
construction.)
>
> I coud go on and on, but rather than do that I would suggest that you look at
> the archives and try and see it for yourself.
>
> I owe it to the group and you to point this out, if you took your own advice
> you are now offering to me, you obviously would not have much to say besides
> recounting what others have told you.
>
> BTW, when was the last time you hung a door? Or, any type of glass for that
> matter?
I have a business installing art glass. I don't hang showers, I would sub
that out to an installer who does. I will make tempered art glass for use in
showers or patch doors for architectural buildings. It is an application I
have studied.
>
> >Some tempered glass is bowed more than others. This seems to me to be the
>>jist of the problem.
>
> It will not be a problem if it is installed correctly. If you have ever done
> it than you would know.
>
> At least when I state my information, I tell what my opinion is and what is
> fact. Your information about hinges in tempered glass is not the only way
that
> glass tempered or not, is hung.
>
> Are you miffed about something, or are you just having a bad day? You are
> starting to get as bad as some others about being able to properly read posts
> and replies before you state your own.
Paul, what miffs me is your attitude that you know everything and the only
right way to do things is your way. I don't claim my way is the only way.
Many people work out viable techniques to get the job done. It is true that
some things work better than others.
>
> Rather than worrying about me getting a clue, why don't you try and get a
clue!
FREE YOUR MIND AND THE GLASS WILL FOLLOW
Bert Weiss
Bert Weiss Art Glass
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Sculpture Lighting Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Collaborative Art Glass Projects
Sundog
barbara j cashman wrote ......I was going to suggest having them replace it with laminated glass, but if the edges show, that would not be an asthetic solution. >>>>>Barbara..... it can look quite nice...... I often use lammy with an exposed edge that has a custom 'pencil bevel', or even a standard 1 1/4" bevel, and it looks very 'finished'. One time I had some very wavy clear architectural glass called 'Glacier' laminated to 3/8" tempered to create a shower panel that I then etched on. Another time I worked on 3/4" triple lammy made from 3 layers of 1/4", which had a polished edge that was exposed on the sides, mounted floor to ceiling at the top & bottom only.Once it's been through the edging machinery it looks good, although if you look closely for it you can see the plastic of course. But it is not objectionable at that point.Also, regarding other posts above, I work on frameless shower enclosures all the time. In recent years ALL the hinges I encounter are a 'clamp' type that requires a cut-out along the edge of the door. And maybe it's just Idaho, but I haven't seen ANY objectionable warpage on tempered glass over 1/4" thick, and almost literally none on 1/2".regards, Jacques Bordeleau
db
I am learning from it,
and actually am beginning to look forward to it every day. Keep it up guys.
Thanks for caring about glass.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Don Burt - Design/Fabrication - Frogacuda Productions.
"The Official Glass Art Studio Named-After-A-
Grotesque-Plastic-Monster-Figurine of the Millenium"
www.geocities.com/frogacuda
Bert Weiss wrote in message ...
>----------
>In article <20000115173906...@ng-fl1.aol.com>,
plat...@aol.com
>(Platypus Art Glass) wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Bert,
>>
>>>We all owe it to each other to comment only on subjects about which we
have
>>>a clue.
>>
>> I do not really understand the reason for this comment, especialy based
on
>past
>> dialogs and contributions in the NG by you.
>>
>> Obviously, you have never heard of a compression hinge. Pretty common on
>glass
>> whether tempered or not. Does not require holes.
>
>I spoke to that in my last posting.
clip clip
barbara j cashman
state the glass was actually 1/4" thick. I find that surprising for the
size. Or am I all wet here? (no pun intended). Also, the glass should
have cost about $250 if it were 1/4" tempered. Those hinges must have
been REAL expensive. Or the rest of the cost must have been in the
assembly of it. Dunno...
Barbara
Platypus Art Glass
Quite the contrary. Although I do not really derive pleasure from it, I will
never stop trying to get the Art Glass world to open up and start talking to
each other.
>Thanks for caring about glass.
This is one of my main motivations for participating in this group. I see so
much shitty glass (not imported) and erroneous information in the regular world
and here, that I feel this is one easy way to contribute to try and improve the
information and the quality of product that everyone makes.
Also, I solely derive my living from my work. So, when I see and hear people
defending and perpetuating glass myths, crappy product and such, I am
defensive, and go on the offensive.
Defensive towards my market. Offensive towards those that should quit doing
glasswork. I have to compete with imports, other glass people, and hobbyists.
I do not mind this, but I am sure not going to stand around why some glass
shops crank out crap and instruct prospective glass students according to the
pocketbook rather than the craft.
Largely, the public will believe what you tell them and show them. To many
people rely on the "magic" of glass to sell the product while the product
suffers. The client and/or customer does not know the difference until it is
usually too late.
BTW, if you would like to read the start of the contentious dialogs between
Bert and I, you can go to the archives of March 99, wherein you will find a
thread about Buying A Glass Fusing Kiln or something.
Rebecca Marvel
hinges on the wall a little off, the door would be "skewed" almost like
if it were bowing.... thicker glass would hide this but not 1/4.
And if it's only 1/4" glass, they could have feasibly used a clamp hinge
- but (at least where I live) that type of hinge is no where near as
expensive as a Lalique type mounted hinge.
IMHO, I would never put anything less than 3/8" into a framless unit...
and I would protest the 3/8" - wanting 1/2".
And I wouldn't pay $700 for two pieces of 1/4" tempered, some U channel,
2 hinges and a handle. .. perhaps this person DID get screwed?
Rebecca Marvel
Platypus Art Glass wrote:
>
> Largely, the public will believe what you tell them and show them. To many
> people rely on the "magic" of glass to sell the product while the product
> suffers. The client and/or customer does not know the difference until it is
> usually too late.
It is up to all "on the up and up" glass artists AND smaller glass
houses to educate the buying public - they will thank you for it in more
ways than one.
Most glass shops I've dealt with (and WILL NOT deal with any more) are
in it ONLY for the all mighty dollar - money is a very important part of
a business - we should all know this. BUT - having happy, satisfied and
REPEAT customers is absolute NECESSARY. Without the latter, not one of
us would be in business for long.
Where I live, the glass industry is a very incestious family - everyone
knows everyone. Getting a "reputation" (especially a bad one) will also
ruin a business.... be it an artistic glass business or a small
fab/install shop.
Selling this woman (was it a woman that started this discussion?) a 1/4"
framelss unit that is as big as she says (wasn't it 72" tall?) was wrong
in my mind...
1/4" GLASS, ESPECIALLY A LARGE PIECE, BOWS WHEN YOU CARRY IT AROUND -
what do you think it would do if it were mounted (probably poorly) to a
wall - being utilized as a DOOR? It's dangerous -
I get people coming to me to FIX problems like this also - I have fixed
many other people's screw ups... gives the glass industry a bad name.
barbara j cashman
haven't heard back from you (in the newsgroup anyway). Do you have
anything to add, or an update from your original posting?
Maxine
I haven't done much about this yet, I was still doing some research (and I'm
swamped with other stuff). I had contacted the glass manufacturer AFGD and
asked them about it. This is there reply...
Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding AFGD and tempered glass
products.
I am at a disadvantage without visually inspecting the glass (shower door),
but I will attempt to answer your questions. Briefly, the tempered glass
process entails taking a piece of "regular" glass, cutting it, seeming the
edge and putting in on rollers that take the glass into a tempering furnace.
This furnace heats the glass up to very high temperatures (very close to the
initial stage of the glass' melting point). The glass is then "quenched" or
blasted with cooler air. The quenching puts the glass in a compressed
state.
This compressed state makes temp. glass 3-4 times stronger than regular
glass and, when broken, the glass will "explode" or break into many little
pieces (reducing the risk of serious injury) making the glass a safety
glazed
product. It is true that glass will have a certain amount of bow or warp to
the glass due to its compressed state. What I can't tell you is whether the
glass is bowed or if the hinges are too tight without someone taking the
glass out and looking independently at the glass itself. Based on the
information you provided, I would suspect that the bow/warp you describe
could very well be the inherent characteristics of the tempered glass
itself.
I hope this information is helpful. Thanks again,
Afgdinfo
So, basically, I still don't know what to make of it. I have played around
with the plastic channels and lessened the leak if I'm VERY careful when
closing the door so that the plastic is touching the door at the bottom and
stretched, but still touching (barely) the door in the center. I will also
have to add silicone to the floor just where the door meets the glass wall.
But MAYBE that will stop it.
I am still making enquiries... I will complain too, but I don't know if I
will get this replaced or not... I wish I had known then what I know now
(hindsight being 20/20) then I would have known what to ask for, glass wise,
instead of trusting the "expert" when I requested the custom job. I had
gone to many bathroom specialists, suppliers, but had no luck finding what I
wanted, so I went to the only 2 glass shops we have in my city. One was
reluctant to do it and would charge about $2000 Canadian (about $1400 US)
and the other (the one I went with) said it wasn't a problem, and would cost
$700. So I hired him.
I should also add that the door cost $700 but that is Canadian dollars
(about $475 US ) which probably makes a difference to you guys deciding
whether or not I got ripped.
That is my update so far,
Thank you all for your input,
I'll let you know how it all turns out...
Maxine
Mike Firth
Platypus Art Glass wrote:
> Quite the contrary. Although I do not really derive pleasure from it, I will
> never stop trying to get the Art Glass world to open up and start talking to
> each other.
Wow, use language that offends people, refuse to read messages from anyone who
disagrees with you, state your opinions in the most violent possible way. People
will talk to each other
in spite of you, just to keep from talking to you.
--
Mike Firth
Hot Glass Bits newsletter and furnace glass information web site
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth/
Neon John
Maxine wrote:
> So, basically, I still don't know what to make of it. I have played around
> with the plastic channels and lessened the leak if I'm VERY careful when
> closing the door so that the plastic is touching the door at the bottom and
> stretched, but still touching (barely) the door in the center. I will also
> have to add silicone to the floor just where the door meets the glass wall.
> But MAYBE that will stop it.
Didn't have time to jump in earlier. IMHO, if you see any bowing in
the glass by just looking at it, something is wrong. My wife is the
stained glass artist here. I make her windows into safety windows
by encapsulating the stained glass panel between two sheets of
tempered glass. The seal is hermetic and the interior is purged
with argon to prevent corrosion and help the window insulate a bit
better.
Doing this requires the tempered glass to lay flat against the
stained glass panel, flat enough that an RTV adhesive can be used to
bond the edge of the tempered glass to the edge of the stained glass
panel. Needless to say, any perceptible bow would make this
impossible. I have learned to send off two copies of each sheet of
glass to be tempered because the glass so often breaks while being
tempered. Most of the glass we use is single strength thickness,
though occasionally we'll do a double thickness if the job requires.
I suspect that the tempering house who did your door mis-quenched
one side, setting up asymmetrical compression and thus warpage. If
this is the case, I'm surprised the glass didn't shatter while
cooling.
>I< would be ballistic if I paid that much for a tempered door that warped enough not to seal.
John
--
John De Armond
johngd...@bellsouth.net
http://neonjohn.4mg.com
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"
Michele Blank
Mike Firth wrote in message
<1D7F35F60E80161A.07D76F5A...@lp.airnews.net>...
Rebecca Marvel
Neon John wrote:
> Didn't have time to jump in earlier. IMHO, if you see any bowing in
> the glass by just looking at it, something is wrong. My wife is the
> stained glass artist here. I make her windows into safety windows
> by encapsulating the stained glass panel between two sheets of
> tempered glass. The seal is hermetic and the interior is purged
> with argon to prevent corrosion and help the window insulate a bit
> better.
Thermal paning the glass which - even if bowed - can be done. Thermal
paning - along with injection of argon gas - also includes a metal
channel that encapsulates the panels of glass.... thus if there is a bow
in the glass it would be basically 'straightened' out with the metal
frame.... easy with large pieces - large pieces of single or double
strength glass flex... so does 1/4". This type of thermal paning is
also used for wine cellars for insulation - we wouldn't want those 125
dollar bottles of wine to go bad now would we?
The gas is also used to prevent moisture build up in between the
panes... if you dual glaze in a moist area (like a bathroom) eventually
there will be a build up of moisture inbetween the glass and it will
probably mold....
TEMPERED GLASS HAS A BOW TO IT - even 3/4" tempered has ripples in the
surface and is slightly bowed (the weight of 3/4 tends to straighten out
any bows though) so when you say that "there is something wrong" you are
incorrect...
Eveyone in the industry will tell you that after tempering glass - it
will have a bow (sometimes worse than other times) and the surface will
be rippled slightly. I think her problem is the installation and (being
that it is a frameless 1/4" door) the selection of material thickness.
Thin glass acts a lot like thin wood - without a frame to support it, it
will bow... especially if it is only supported by two small points
(hinges).
> Doing this requires the tempered glass to lay flat against the
> stained glass panel, flat enough that an RTV adhesive can be used to
> bond the edge of the tempered glass to the edge of the stained glass
> panel. Needless to say, any perceptible bow would make this
> impossible. I have learned to send off two copies of each sheet of
Not impossible.... been there, done that... never lost a piece.
> glass to be tempered because the glass so often breaks while being
> tempered. Most of the glass we use is single strength thickness,
> though occasionally we'll do a double thickness if the job requires.
Find a new tempering house.... you shouldn't be losing single strengh
like that.... someone running the oven is doing something wrong.
> I suspect that the tempering house who did your door mis-quenched
> one side, setting up asymmetrical compression and thus warpage. If
> this is the case, I'm surprised the glass didn't shatter while
> cooling.
If it has a big enuff bow to it and she inadvertenly "slams" or bumps
the shower door just the right way, it probably WILL break...
> >I< would be ballistic if I paid that much for a tempered door that warped enough not to seal.
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
We all would
Platypus Art Glass
Just a side comment:
> also includes a metal
>channel that encapsulates the panels of glass....
You don't have to have a metal channel material. As long as the material will
hold a vaccum.
Aluminum is the material I have commonly seen. There is also one company that
fills the interior of the aluminum channel with silica gel to act as a
dessicant.
>Thin glass acts a lot like thin wood - without a frame to support it, it
>will bow...
I don't think thiness has anything to do with it other than allowing you to see
the forces of gravity reacting with the vertically hung material better. Wood,
Metal, plastic, glass, etc. Nothing is immune.
especially if it is only supported by two small points
>(hinges).
Quality glass doors I have seen whether for showers or other uses were always
supported by four hinges.
Pivot hinges on the two corners and two anti-slip hinges along the side, what I
refer to as compression hinges.
Lastly, I think that tempered glass alone is a bad idea for shower enclosures
or doors. Saftey glass alone would be much better than plain tempered.
Laminated tempered would be the ultimate.
What does everyone else think?
Bert Weiss
If you don't think thinness has any thing to do with the way glass behaves
you have never transported a large sheet from case to bench. Glass wiggles
and vibrates relative to it's thickness. 1/4" glass is extremely flexible
relative to 1/2" glass.
I think you are mistaken about compression hinges. No catalog I have ever
seen lists any for glass thicker than 5/16". I don't claim to have seen
info on every brand of hinges. There are new products out all of the time.
Has anybody else ever seen a heavy glass hinge that doesn't require a drill
hole or cutout?
BOCA codes allow for tempered glass doors. These codes are very strict and
if tempered doors caused lots of problems they would not be allowed. That
is not to say that they can't explode, we know it is possible.
Bert
In article <20000119003004...@ng-fy1.aol.com>,
plat...@aol.com (Platypus Art Glass) wrote:
>I don't think thiness has anything to do with it other than allowing you to see
>the forces of gravity reacting with the vertically hung material better. Wood,
>Metal, plastic, glass, etc. Nothing is immune.
>
> especially if it is only supported by two small points
>>(hinges).
>
>Quality glass doors I have seen whether for showers or other uses were always
>supported by four hinges.
>
>Pivot hinges on the two corners and two anti-slip hinges along the side, what I
>refer to as compression hinges.
>
>Lastly, I think that tempered glass alone is a bad idea for shower enclosures
>or doors. Saftey glass alone would be much better than plain tempered.
>Laminated tempered would be the ultimate.
>
>What does everyone else think?
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass
Custom Productions
Rebecca Marvel
Platypus Art Glass wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> You don't have to have a metal channel material. As long as the material will
> hold a vaccum.
I have made dual glazed panels (1/8" - 1/8") with glazing tape - for
Denny's restaurant....so it isn't absolutely necessary to have argon gas
or a metal channel. But the threat of moisture build up inbetween the
glass is always present without protection.
>
> especially if it is only supported by two small points
> >(hinges).
>
> Quality glass doors I have seen whether for showers or other uses were always
> supported by four hinges.
I've seen many shower doors supported by 2 hinges as well as 3 - all
dependent upon size of the door.
> Pivot hinges on the two corners and two anti-slip hinges along the side, what I
> refer to as compression hinges.
Yes I am familiar with these.
> Lastly, I think that tempered glass alone is a bad idea for shower enclosures
> or doors. Saftey glass alone would be much better than plain tempered.
> Laminated tempered would be the ultimate.
Overkill in my opinion.... ONLY if you're talking about 1/2" glass...
1/4-1/4 laminate would be acceptable but why not go for the 1/2"
tempered? California (where I live/work/exist) probably has the
strictest rules for safety as far as glass - tempered glass IS safety
glass according to CA laws.... so when you say "safety" glass - I think
of tempered AND laminate.
> What does everyone else think?
>
Rebecca Marvel
Bert Weiss wrote:
>
> Paul
> If you don't think thinness has any thing to do with the way glass behaves
> you have never transported a large sheet from case to bench. Glass wiggles
> and vibrates relative to it's thickness. 1/4" glass is extremely flexible
> relative to 1/2" glass.
EXACTLY! This is why I HATE working on a big sheet of 1/4" glass
(tempered, laminate or annealed).... it's funny that I've never broken a
piece of 1/4 tempered by it bowing while I carry it around or slide it
on the table.... only in the sandblasting booth or I've nicked the edge
with another piece of glass (stupid mistake...sheesh!).
The last large piece of 1/4" I've worked on was 72" long and about 12"
wide...lifting one side up off the table - it bows/flexes/whatever
almost as much as a piece of wood. Single and double strength are 100%
worse.... very scarry
> I think you are mistaken about compression hinges. No catalog I have ever
> seen lists any for glass thicker than 5/16". I don't claim to have seen
> info on every brand of hinges. There are new products out all of the time.
> Has anybody else ever seen a heavy glass hinge that doesn't require a drill
> hole or cutout?
(checking my CRL catalogue).....there's a 135 degree glass compression
CLAMP for 1/2" glass...there's glass-wall set screw (compression) hinges
for 5/16" (max)... there are 8 other types of glass to wall hinges - all
range from 1/4" to 1/2" glass.... ALL require either a "cut out"
(typical Lalique style) or holes. There is one set of top and bottom
mount pivot hinges that will accomodate up to 3/8" glass - these also
require holes.
Well, now isn't THAT amazing! The largest glazing supplier in the US
doesn't carry set screw/compression hinges for heavy glass! Only glass
clamps or furniture connectors for fixed pieces.
> BOCA codes allow for tempered glass doors. These codes are very strict and
> if tempered doors caused lots of problems they would not be allowed. That
> is not to say that they can't explode, we know it is possible.
And "tweaking" or skewing a piece will explode a piece of laminate
(lammy doesn't really explode but you know what I mean) - I know this
from experience. :)
> Bert
Bert, I think you and I agree here and my sarcasm isn't directed at
you. Perhaps the laws and standards are different where Paul comes
from?
I suppose just because you or I have never seen the type of hinges that
he's describing doesn't mean the do not exist... but *I* certainly
wouldn't install a big heavy 1/2 or 3/8 door with compression hinges...
I think it would slip a lot and be dangerous as far as slipping right
out of the hinge, hence breaking and/or crushing someone.
Platypus Art Glass
>If you don't think thinness has any thing to do with the way glass behaves
>you have never transported a large sheet from case to bench.
In the context of my comment, no it does not. Any glass of any thickness will
"bow" when placed in a vertical position if not suported properly. Same way in
a horozontal position. So will any other material. It does not matter if it is
12" thick or 1/4" thick. Only difference is you can see the bow easier on
thinner glass.
I did not say that thin glass "behaves" differently than thick glass. I said
the glass will react due to the forces of gravity regardless of thickness.
Glass wiggles
>and vibrates relative to it's thickness. 1/4" glass is extremely flexible
Glass will wiggle and vibrate regardless of thickness, you can just see the
results with thinner glass easier. Just because you cannot see a 1" thick pice
of glass "wiggle and vibrate" does not mean it isn't.
>I think you are mistaken about compression hinges. No catalog I have ever
>seen lists any for glass thicker than 5/16".
Did you not get the e-mail I sent you with the link to a page of 1/2" glass
shower door hinges?
I also stated that I believe the glass industry calls them anti-slip hinges. I
call them compression hinges as I learned about them in Machinist school.
>There are new products out all of the time.
The hinges I referred to in my first post have been out a long time, at least
15 years.
>Has anybody else ever seen a heavy glass hinge that doesn't require a drill
>hole or cutout?
Did you not notice any on your trip to Seattle? What I refer to as compression
hinges are all over the Puget Sound area.
> These codes are very strict and
>if tempered doors caused lots of problems they would not be allowed.
So, do you know what the codes are?
Platypus Art Glass
Rebecca Marvel said:
>(checking my CRL catalogue)
Who or what is CRL? Bert does not seem to want to tell me. It would seem that
both you and Bert need to look around at what different suppliers have to
offer. Since relying on a CRL catalog has gotten both of you lost.
I gave Bert a link to some 1/2 inch shower door hinges for glass at a place
called Lalique.
> There is one set of top and bottom
>mount pivot hinges that will accomodate up to 3/8" glass - these also
>require holes.
Lalique, along with many others, have top and bottom mount pivot hinges that do
not require holes and wil accomodate thick glass, more than 3/8".
>And "tweaking" or skewing a piece will explode a piece of laminate
Certainly, you do not mean that this does not happen to tempered glass? Sure,
the tempered will absorb a larger force before breaking, but once broken it
will be on the floor.
My question about what others think refers to saftey issues. If the tempered
glass breaks that's it, laminate saftey glass will not fall. If someone had a
bad enough accident to break the tempered glass than they would be standing in
a pile of glass.
I have never installed a glass shower enclosure. If I where, I would use 1/4"
plate laminated to another !/4" plate. The strength of 1/2" of glass should be
suitable for a shower and meet building codes, along with being a safer
application than tempered alone. As I asked for comments maybe you can
enlighten me and the rest of the people by telling what the building cods
require. Bert does not say, only that tempered are allowed by BOCA standards.
What are the standards and what else is allowed?
I stated my opinion about this and asked for comments, what is your feeling on
tempered vs. laminate for shower enclosures.
>Perhaps the laws and standards are different where Paul comes
>from?
What laws and standards did you post? What laws and standards are you referring
to? Nothing but your subjective opinion. The forces of gravity I pointed out
are releative to everyone on this planet.
Where I came from I have seen many things that you and Bert have obviously not
seen.
>*I* certainly
>wouldn't install a big heavy 1/2 or 3/8 door with compression hinges...
All over the Puget Sound area there are glass doors mounted with compression
(anti-slip) hinges and pivot hinges. The most common I have seen are 2 pivot
hinges on the corners and two anti-slip hinges on the sides. I have seen this
on doors that were 1" thick. No holes, no cutouts. Just a big piece of glass
supported by four hinges.
>I think it would slip a lot and be dangerous as far as slipping right
>out of the hinge,
I know that compreesion hinges are used, and the only way they would fail is
buy installation from a thinker and not a knower.
Lastly, I am considering signing on with Flashnet. How long have you had it
and have you had any serious problems with DSL?
Rebecca Marvel
Platypus Art Glass wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Rebecca Marvel said:
>
> >(checking my CRL catalogue)
>
> Who or what is CRL? Bert does not seem to want to tell me. It would seem that
> both you and Bert need to look around at what different suppliers have to
> offer. Since relying on a CRL catalog has gotten both of you lost.
CRL = CR Laurence..... I believe the largest glazing supplier in the US.
> Certainly, you do not mean that this does not happen to tempered glass? Sure,
> the tempered will absorb a larger force before breaking, but once broken it
> will be on the floor.
Certainly I do NOT mean this... but laminate will more readily pop when
tweaked (for lack of a better term)
> My question about what others think refers to saftey issues. If the tempered
> glass breaks that's it, laminate saftey glass will not fall. If someone had a
> bad enough accident to break the tempered glass than they would be standing in
> a pile of glass.
I am having a dillema with regard to laminate vs. tempered right now
with a project... You are correct - laminate would hold together if it
pops. There is nothing WRONG with laminate if you don't mind the
plastic layer showing at the edge.... but laminate does NOT work for the
type of art glass that I do.
> I have never installed a glass shower enclosure. If I where, I would use 1/4"
> plate laminated to another !/4" plate. The strength of 1/2" of glass should be
> suitable for a shower and meet building codes, along with being a safer
> application than tempered alone. As I asked for comments maybe you can
Again, I'm not fond of laminate from an aesthetic position...
> enlighten me and the rest of the people by telling what the building cods
> require. Bert does not say, only that tempered are allowed by BOCA standards.
> What are the standards and what else is allowed?
I do not have a building code book in front of me - but I have seen the
section regarding "safety" glass and it is acceptable (CAlifornia) to
have laminate OR tempered as a shower enclosure/door or as signage that
is above a certain height from the floor - as well as storefronts,
windows, etc. I do believe there is a building code "safety" website -
it may require a little searching...
> I stated my opinion about this and asked for comments, what is your feeling on
> tempered vs. laminate for shower enclosures.
Laminte: Ugly edges - GREAT for windows that are encapsulated with a
frame though.... also with laminate you can get 'crud' mixed in with the
plastic making little black specks... ugly
> What laws and standards did you post? What laws and standards are you referring
> to? Nothing but your subjective opinion. The forces of gravity I pointed out
> are releative to everyone on this planet.
Laws/standards = Safety codes... building codes.
Gravity: The same all around the world - as you pointed out.
> Where I came from I have seen many things that you and Bert have obviously not
> seen.
> All over the Puget Sound area there are glass doors mounted with compression
> (anti-slip) hinges and pivot hinges. The most common I have seen are 2 pivot
> hinges on the corners and two anti-slip hinges on the sides. I have seen this
> on doors that were 1" thick. No holes, no cutouts. Just a big piece of glass
> supported by four hinges.
Not in MY house.... of course I currently have a Home Depot special
that's pretty nasty - ahhh. someday I'll have a big HUGE gorgeous
frameless shower unit.
> Lastly, I am considering signing on with Flashnet. How long have you had it
> and have you had any serious problems with DSL?
Naw.. no problems. Sometimes I have to try to connect a couple of times
before it "takes" but that could be my lovely modem. Umm.. I think I've
been with them since 1992.
Earthlink is a good provider also.... but Flashnet has better rates
(I'm at 16.95 a month just for dial up)..... and when I had my website
at F-net I had way MORE than the 10 meg they allowed and they didn't
hassle me.
Of course, I'm too lazy to do any research on a new provider.. guess
that's why I've been with them for so long.
Platypus Art Glass
>CRL = CR Laurence..... I believe the largest glazing supplier in the US.
I suspected this was what you and Bert were referring to but I never looked at
them as a glazing supply house.
http://dahling-hardware.com.tw/p1.htm
I found this on a quick search since it seems not to many people are familiar
with the type of glass hinges that I refer to as a compression hinge.
This company has every detail, pictures, and orthographic drawings of their
products as well as maximum W, H, and weight that the hinges will support. The
DL-600 hinge I listed above can be ordered for 10mm glass.
There is no danger of the glass "slipping" if installed correctly. In my
opinion, cutting and/or drilling holes through a piece of glass for hinges
and/or hardware is archaic and barbaric. And, now with more knowledge of the
state of compression in a piece of tempered glass, we know that holes or
cutouts will lessen the effect of the compression.
So, two identical pieces of glass, one plain, one with cutouts. Both tempered.
The plain will be stonger than the cutout.
> There is nothing WRONG with laminate if you don't mind the
>plastic layer showing at the edge...
It would seem that one of us art glass people could come up with a way to
eliminate this aesthetic discontinuity. I agree, but in the application of a
free standing glass shower enclosure, you would only see four seams, and then
really only when the door is open.
Bert, why don't you get some small pieces of laminate glass and fire some
enamels over the edge? Surely an infrared kiln and the right glass enamel mix
might be worth looking into.
>but laminate does NOT work for the
>type of art glass that I do.
>
What type do you do? Is the only problem you have the laminate showing? Or,
is it something else?
> also with laminate you can get 'crud' mixed in with the
>plastic making little black specks... ugly
Only in a glass house that does not know how to laminate properly. Considered
an imperfection, any blemishes in the finished product due to the laminate
should not be tolerated. Much like the original posters responses from the
manufacturer and installer of her shower door, should not be tolerated.
>Not in MY house...> I'll have a big HUGE gorgeous
>frameless shower unit.
Yea, you and I both. If I ever did build one I would surely sell it if someone
wanted to buy it. I have the "I can always build another mentality" when it
comes to the glass products I make. Seems though that I never get around to
the "making another part."
>Naw.. no problems. Sometimes I have to try to connect a couple of times
>before it "takes" but that could be my lovely modem.
I guess I was wrong about the name, I believe the compnay I was referring to
offers DSL service (digital subscriber line, always on, very fast like a T-1).
They are called Flashcom I think not Flashnet.
I had the same problem with an earlier modem. Gota replacement at Best Buy,
Zoom Fax/modem 56KPCI, and replaced the old one. What a difference. Cost
$50.00, but got $20 back on a rebate.
Bert Weiss
This is getting way too tedious.
Unless I am mistaken, The Lalique hinges for heavy glass require a cutout.
They are not compression hinges. The website shows pictures of the front of
the hinges and assumes you know they need a cutout.
I sent you the 800 number for CRL. It's 1-800-421-6144 in California,
what more do you want? Call them and ask for the catalog. Tell them you
have a glass business. They'll send it to you.
Of course all glass flexes. The thicker it is, the less it flexes. It's
not rocket science. You can shake the hell out of annealed glass without
breaking it.
The safest configuration is tempered laminated to annealed. If they both
break, the annealed will hold everything together. This is rarely used in
the real world. It isn't required so most contractors don't spend the
money for it. I have been recommended that configuration for glass floors.
There is no code concerning floors. Engineers at different fabricators
have said it was and was not recommended. Two preferred tempered to
tempered.
I've never heard of lami being used in a frameless door, only tempered.
I'm not sure of the exact code. There are applications where lami is
acceptable in a door, but not when the door is all glass. Drilled annealed
glass is not that strong, tempered is strong enough for the stresses of
doors.
I am told that the resin laminated glass is better looking after grind and
polish than film laminated glass. The interlayer is less visible. There
are numerous resin laminating systems available these days. They don't
require an autoclave for production, and can be made in a small shop with a
minimum of equipment.
Bert
In article <20000119113937...@ng-ff1.aol.com>,
plat...@aol.com (Platypus Art Glass) wrote:
>Free your mind and your glass will follow.
>
>Paul E. Mullen Jr.
>Artist-Craftsman
>Platypus Art Glass
>nietz...@hotmail.com
>plat...@aol.com
Bert
Bert Weiss
Go back and look at the Dahling website again there is a drawing of a
cutout and a drill hole.
Sundog
out of 1/4"........
Oh well.... yes, I guess I can believe...... New opinion then.... she did
get s-c-r-e-w-e-d! This is sad.
Jacques
barbara j cashman wrote in message <38824E44...@nr.infi.net>...
CH Art Glass
I sent some of the "more interesting" comments in this thread to guys at the
commercial glass company I used to work for. They basically laughed their
asses off.... Bowed glass, compression hinges on heavy glass, laminated
glass on a door application like this....I think it livenend up an otherwise
boring Friday.
Sorry Maxine, I think you got taken.
Platypus Art Glass
Not a direct relation, but my father and I built a sundeck with a roof that was
surfaced with 1/4" tempered. Sheets app. 2.5' x 4'.
The entire roof is 20' x 50', at a 15 degree angle.
This was built in the early 80's and is still functonal today.
As a teen, I could tell you many stories about walking and falling on the roof.
It is still intact today, in Tacoma WA.
Platypus Art Glass
Could you ask your > guys if they have any recollection and/or experience with
compression hinges?
The only person I have located so far that knew about compression hinges was at
CRL.
My associate in Seattle says that all of the manufacturing has gone pre-fab.
This may explain why your guys laugh at the mention of compresson hinges for
glass doors.
They do not know how to figure the weight, surface area, width, and height of
the glass sheet to determine the correct hinge and the torque of the machine
screws against the plate that pushes against the surface of the glass sheet in
a compression hinge.
Marc & Heidi Hanley
shower is partly telling you the truth. Tempered glass does bow and their is
very little that can be done about it. However the bow from manufacture will
never change, it is caused by unequal cooling on the surface of each side of
the glass when manufactured. In Australia the glass manufacturers work to
the Australian Standards which allows for up to 9mm (3/8) bow per 2100mm
(7feet). Also Shop windows are rarely tempered glass but laminated glass,
which is an alternative safety glass that is flat. This glass is not
suitable for use in a bathroom without a frame because the interlayer (glue
in the middle) will breakdown in time when exposed to water. Also this glass
will crack when the hinges are clamped on.
Hope this is of help.
Marc.
Maxine wrote in message <85ngj1$j6p$1...@cougar.golden.net>...
>Can anyone tell me if this is true...
>
>I recently ordered custom glass shower doors. They are each approximately 7
>by 2.5 feet. Clear glass. One side is stationary, basically a glass wall.
>It has a clamp holding it in place top and bottom. The other half is a
>hinged door, 2 large hinges hold it in place against the tile wall. Those
>hinges support the door in its entirety.
>
>After it was installed, I noticed a definite bow in the glass door. When
the
>door is shut in such a way that the top and bottom of the door is aligned
>with the glass wall, the centre of the door bows inward a quarter of an
>inch. It doesn't look very good and of course it leaks.
>
>I called the company and they came to look at it. They said that when glass
>is tempered, it comes out of the machine with a slight bow. The wall part
>isn't as noticeable because it is clamped top and bottom, but the door
can't
>be helped. They also said it would straighten up somewhat over time, but it
>will never be perfect. They said this standard and couldn't be helped.
>
>True or not? This cost me $700 so I need to know I'm not getting ripped
>off.
>
>Anybody knowledgeable about this?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>
CH Art Glass
Platypus Art Glass wrote in message
<20000122010300...@ng-fc1.aol.com>...
>Hello,
>
>Could you ask your > guys if they have any recollection and/or experience
with
>compression hinges?
I think a company involved in commercial and residential glass fab and
installation for the past 25 years is a qualified source regarding HEAVY
glass and compression hinges. My point is that 1/4" glass is ok for your
compression hinge, but anything thicker should be drilled and tempered.
>
>The only person I have located so far that knew about compression hinges
was at
>CRL.
I've talked with some of the so-called experts at CRL and some of them know
only a little more than you.
There are, however, some very knowledgeable people there who know how to
properly outfit a professional heavy glass installer (with the right hinges,
caulking, adhesive tape, templates for holes, etc.)
kirkt...@gmail.com
TEMPERED GLASS BOW AND WARP TOLERANCES -
GLASS THICKNESS
1/8" 3/16" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2"
EDGE DIMENSIONS
0-20" 5/64" 1/8" 5/64" 5/64" 5/64"
>20"-35" 5/64" 5/32" 1/8" 5/64" 5/64"
>35"-47" 5/64" 13/64" 5/32" 5/64" 5/64"
>47"-59" 1/8" 9/32" 13/64" 13/64" 5/64"
>59"-71" 13/64" 11/32" 9/32" 13/64" 5/32"
>71"-83" 15/32" 15/32" 11/32" 15/64" 13/64"
>83"-94" 9/32" 17/32" 15/32" 9/32" 13/64"
>94"-106" 21/32" 17/32" 11/32" 9/32"
>106"-118" 3/4" 21/32" 15/32" 3/8"
>118"-130" 3/4" 9/16" 15/32"
>130"-144" 13/16" 21/32" 17/32"
If your glass exceeds these tolerances i would call and complain.
eugeni...@gmail.com
> Can anyone tell me if this is true...
>
> I recently ordered custom glass shower doors. They are each approximately 7
> by 2.5 feet. Clear glass. One side is stationary, basically a glass wall.
> It has a clamp holding it in place top and bottom. The other half is a
> hinged door, 2 large hinges hold it in place against the tile wall. Those
> hinges support the door in its entirety.
>
> After it was installed, I noticed a definite bow in the glass door. When the
> door is shut in such a way that the top and bottom of the door is aligned
> with the glass wall, the centre of the door bows inward a quarter of an
> inch. It doesn't look very good and of course it leaks.
>
> I called the company and they came to look at it. They said that when glass
> is tempered, it comes out of the machine with a slight bow. The wall part
> isn't as noticeable because it is clamped top and bottom, but the door can't
> be helped. They also said it would straighten up somewhat over time, but it
> will never be perfect. They said this standard and couldn't be helped.
>
> True or not? This cost me $700 so I need to know I'm not getting ripped
> off.
>
> Anybody knowledgeable about this?
>
> Thanks in advance