taking advantage of a class
Quasinerd
never taught a class before, so I want to make my own
list of techniques I want to learn while I have a
teacher to help me.
The first 8 weeks is copper foil, the second set is
lead came.
I'm setting up projects to do.
1. A easy suncatcher to get confidence and learn how
to hang something, (4 piece butterfly).
2. a small open box to learn 3-d work, (business card
holder).
3. a simple design with some overlapping to get a feel
for that construction.
4. a circle design to learn how to cut curves and
circles.
5. a rectangular panel to learn how to fit a work and
a frame together,
6. a lamp, to learn how to handle large 3D pieces.
What am I missing?
mary
the sense to realize you will not learn all of this proficiently in 8 weeks!
give it time man
the confidence and ability to do all these technical applications will come
with practice and patience.
"Quasinerd" <Quas...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3E3B346A...@netscape.net...
Quasinerd
introduction to the things I might want to try in the
next year or three.
I mean, like, cutting circles can't be easy, but
probably there are tools or tricks to help. If I ask
for a demo now, I'll have a better sense later of how
to approach it, than if I try to learn out of a book.
Quasi
Mike Firth
to learn and practice.
If you are committed and the teacher is supplying the tools in the class
(as beginning classes often do), you might begin buying basic tools to work
at home between classes. Wash your hands before handling food and don't eat
while working with lead based products.
The one project I might eliminate is the layered/overlapping feature,
which is used less often today than when Tiffany used it. Lamps can be a
trap, because most are not made with big pieces, but lots and lots of little
pieces.
One area I would add because it fun, somewhat challenging, and the area I
like the most about stained glass work, is working with odd shaped pieces
and unflat pieces that are not boxes. Hanging near me as I write are small
hanging "lantern" that holds a votive candle inside, but which has six
different glass scrap sides with a tin bottom and a wire loop hanger and a
slice from a nautilus shell foiled to white streamer glass cut to the same
outline, the glass cut from the area of the sheet that best matched the
shape. Working nuggets, mirrors, pieces of bottles, and sagged glass into
a piece can be the same kind of exercise.
--
Mike Firth
Hot Glass Bits Furnace Working Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/NTBOWL03.HTM
Donate a bowl to Empty Bowls Soup Project in North Texas
"Quasinerd" <Quas...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3E3B64F0...@netscape.net...
Mary
"All About Glass".
Week 1 we cover cutting and putting together a suncatcher (grinding,
foiling etc)
Week 2 Finish the suncatcher and begin a lampshade. We continue with
the shade until Week 6.
This is followed by 2 weeks of glass etching.
Then Mosaics
I am really enjoying it and after 12 weeks we have had a taster of
different glass crafts and we can decide which we enjoy most. Most
people are also hoping to carry on to leadlight windows and fusing.
For 2 hours a week I am stress free!!!
Mary
Quasinerd
> to learn and practice.
> at home between classes.
She is requiring us to buy basic tools (cutter with
oil, roll of foil, soldering iron and solder, breaking
pliers). We'll use her grinder.
Three hours of class per week times 16 weeks should
mean time for quite a lot of hands on glass work!
> I might eliminate the layered/overlapping feature,
> which is used less often today than when Tiffany used it.
I was thinking of the common cheap souvenir figures
like an angel with wings tacked on behind instead of
contoured to fit the body shape.
> Lamps can be a trap, because most are not made with big pieces, but lots
> and lots of little pieces.
I counted the number of pieces in a simple lamp pattern
- not too bad until I remembered the lamp needs 6 of
the panels! Maybe a simple fan lamp, whatever that
is.
> One area I would add because it fun, ... is working with odd shaped pieces
> and unflat pieces that are not boxes...
> Working nuggets, mirrors, pieces of bottles, and sagged glass into
> a piece can be the same kind of exercise.
So, anything you can wrap copper foil around you can
work into a piece? Fun!
Quasi
Quasinerd
encouragement.
We are doing stained glass only - no etching or fusing
or mosaics, although those sound like fun, too.
Teacher has no projects lined up, but instead told us
to decide what we want to do. (She hasn't taught
before.) I want to set up a list of hoped for
accomplishments, so I don't risk drifting (which I do
sometimes when not headed anywhere specific).
Quasi
Mary wrote:
>
> I just started taking lessons...
> Week 1 ...a suncatcher (grinding, foiling etc)
>
> Week 2 ... a lampshade. We continue with the shade until Week 6.
>
> ...2 weeks of glass etching. Then Mosaics
>
> I am really enjoying it...
jk
> never taught a class before, so I want to make my own
> list of techniques I want to learn while I have a
> teacher to help me.
>
> The first 8 weeks is copper foil, the second set is
> lead came.
>
Not to be obnoxious here, but one of the reasons your teacher is new, is
that no one in their right mind would teach a 16 week course without going
or being nuts!! Gee I could probably learn to be a brain surgeon in 16
weeks? I find that after 4 weeks with my small group, I start dreaming of
the Bahamas....
--
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
Howard
exhibited.
Seeing as how you have not taken a class before, how can you judge what the
quality of instruction is?
Before any of you go off foaming at the mouth over my questions...PLEASE
read on
I have about 22 years experience making lampshades.
I have about 20 years teaching BEGINNERS to ADVANCED students, both from my
tutelage and from other teachers!
People ACTUALLY PURCHASE my work and I stay busy doing commissions.
First night of class I usually bring a Tiffany type shade to "whet" their
appetite.
I never forget I too, was a beginner and started off with shade #1..btb I
just finished number 1, 076.
My BEGINNING students make a small PANEL LAMP for their FIRST PROJECT.
Usually a 6 to 8 week course.
We DO NOT make sun catchers or any project that does not require a
discipline.
Week one is a "FREE" week to experiment with cutting, both free hand and a
using a jig, grinding, foiling and soldering. I also give my students the
OPTION to drop out if it is not what they expected.
Next week COUNTS...We design a simple panel lamp (8 panels and 1 or 2 trim
pieces) We "learn" the math to be able to actually create a size we decided
on. I give my students a sample set of colors, using glass that is opal and
easy to cut BOTH SIDES. There is some latitude for a few "mis-cuts" before
the sheet is totally used up, too. Some students take to it quickly, other
struggle, but in the end all have a shade they can use and exhibit much
pride in their accomplishment.
Sometime (usually after week 4 or 5) is devoted to a "little" history of
Tiffany Lamps, light, and it use in shades, and so on.
I teach ONLY copper foil techniques, but have had students use glass jewels,
and shells in their projects. Some students go on and make the "dreaded"
small piece Tiffany type shade, others stick with panel lamps and make MANY
for gifts, and others have found it "not for them"
My feeling is that if you LEARN the mechanics of shade making, it is easier
to then do a panel or ?????. soldering a 3 dimensional shade is a challenge
and anything after learning how to do that is EASIER!
I do not teach came, but will demonstrate the simpler aspects of it.
Howard
I am wearing my "asbestos" protectors after this post!
Louis Cage
> > I think it's a good list and a total of 16 weeks should give you some
time
> > to learn and practice.
> > you might begin buying basic tools to work
> > at home between classes.
>
> She is requiring us to buy basic tools (cutter with
> oil, roll of foil, soldering iron and solder, breaking
> pliers). We'll use her grinder.
>
(spelling?) stone. It's not better, but you will be a better glass cutter
for it. A grinder can become a crutch for poor glass cutting
> Three hours of class per week times 16 weeks should
> mean time for quite a lot of hands on glass work!
>
> > I might eliminate the layered/overlapping feature,
> > which is used less often today than when Tiffany used it.
>
> I was thinking of the common cheap souvenir figures
> like an angel with wings tacked on behind instead of
> contoured to fit the body shape.
>
> > Lamps can be a trap, because most are not made with big pieces, but lots
> > and lots of little pieces.
>
> I counted the number of pieces in a simple lamp pattern
> - not too bad until I remembered the lamp needs 6 of
> the panels! Maybe a simple fan lamp, whatever that
> is.
A fan lamp is a flat panel inserted into a holder that sits on a table with
a night light bulb or a candle behind it. Can be a nice accent piece.
> > One area I would add because it fun, ... is working with odd shaped
pieces
> > and unflat pieces that are not boxes...
> > Working nuggets, mirrors, pieces of bottles, and sagged glass into
> > a piece can be the same kind of exercise.
>
> So, anything you can wrap copper foil around you can
> work into a piece? Fun!
Don't use anything the soldering iron might melt (plastic and such)
> Quasi
Moonraker
classroom time. Do you mind sharing with us just what you are paying for
this?
"Quasinerd" <Quas...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3E3CA77B...@netscape.net...
Quasinerd
$202 for the first 8 weeks of 3 hour classes (24 hours
class time). I assume the same price for the second 8
weeks. Only 8 in the class; not sure how many they
hoped for.
Comparable class time in their drawing classes cost
ballpark the same, but I think they get more people per
class, so this might be a loss to the school in the
interest of getting a stained glass program going.
Austin (TX) art museum's art school. They have not had
a stained glass class since they kept records, over ten
years.
I think they haven't really thought this out this
class. Writeup says we will "create a 2-dimensional
hanging stained glass window piece." I expect to start
and complete a simple (4 piece) suncatcher next class,
not spend 7 weeks on it! (First class was just show
and tell about tools etc., as expected for a first
class.)
Writeup also says "visit an area church to view and
discuss stained glass." I don't feel a need to spend
class time visiting church windows. But even if we do
that, it surely won't be more than one of the evenings.
Teacher expects us to need the 8 weeks to finish one
suncatcher and to start but not quite finish one larger
panel that we could take to the next 8 week class and
use as a first lead project, finishing it by
surrounding it in lead came.
She is young and has never taught a stained glass class
before. From things the other students said, they are
as interested as me in doing glass work, not sitting
around in class chatting.
I've been sorting patterns to decide what I'm going to
try in what order, so no class time is wasted on
looking through patterns. I'm so excited!
Quasi
Quasinerd
> exhibited.
The glass shop told me the art museum talked her into
doing the class. She may be a great teacher or may
not, too soon to say. (Wonderful artists can be poor
at teaching, as teaching is its own skill).
She brought in two examples of her work:
1) a suncatcher made of two pieces of glass, two
nuggets, and decorative wire work. That puzzled me
because wire work is supposedly not part of the class
(although I'd enjoy learning it).
2) a mirror framed with an openwork design of triangles
and nuggets.
I was surprised at no examples of glass pieces fitted
together in a design, but maybe she intended to show
easy pieces as an encouragement.
(The class seemed disinterested in both of her
examples. At the break I brought in a geometric I had
bought - because I had a question about it's
construction. It's just square bevels and strips of
colored glass, but for the first time the class members
showed animated interest, coming over to touch it,
coming over again to pick it up and look at it or use
as a vehicle for asking a question. I guess they just
weren't turned on by her artistic style.)
She passed out books to spark design ideas in us, but
the books were about glass fusing, and nature books
(how to identify flowers). None were examples of
designs made of copper foiled pieces of stained glass.
Looking back, that surprised me. I would have handed
out sample patterns or pattern books.
My guess is, she is an artist who doesn't need a
printed pattern to work from. I am artistically
deficient. I cannot look out my window and get an idea
and go do it in glass. (My artist neighbor does this,
and beautifully.)
The teacher's only instructions for next time are to
come with a pattern and glass, and we'll get to work.
No hints about what kinds of patterns are harder or
easier, or what size limits to consider structurally.
Then someone brought out some window pane glass.
Teacher said we can practice on that. But instead of
having each of us in turn use the one cutter to cut a
strip off the pane, the teacher cut strips, telling us
to listen to the sound of the cut as she did it.
That's when it occurred to me she isn't a practiced
teacher. A skill is learned by doing, not by watching.
Which is a long explanation of why I decided I need to
identify what I want to learn, if I want maximum gain
for my time and money.
The teacher is probably a competent artist in glass.
I'll learn a lot from her. But if she lacks teaching
skills, I need to set my own (changeable) goals for the
class instead of relying on her to set goals, in order
to learn from her the things she knows.
> Seeing as how you have not taken a class before, how can you judge what the
> quality of instruction is?
I won't be able to tell, even after 16 weeks, if her
ways of doing glass are the best (or the best for me).
That I am not and maybe never will be competent to
judge.
But as to judging teaching method, I've been student or
teacher many time, in topics and skills other than
glass. Good teachers make students participate.
Watch the teacher, then try it while the teacher
watches, watch the teacher's corrections, try it the
corrected way while the teacher watches, then practice
a lot. Lots of verbal interaction through it all.
Teaching content, and teaching methods to convey that
content, are two different animals.
> I have about 20 years teaching BEGINNERS to ADVANCED students,...
> My BEGINNING students make a small PANEL LAMP for their FIRST PROJECT.
> Usually a 6 to 8 week course.
> We "learn" the math to be able to actually create a size
Serious work right from the start! I'd love your
class. If I made it past the first one. I'm totally
an intellectual nerd, and incompetent at anything
manual, so a suncatcher seems like the place for me to
start just to get a sense of "yes I can do this." Your
intro class probably serves the same function.
And how to do the math, yes that's something I'm
concerned about getting right. I have a mathematical
mind, so I'll be able to work it out. But as with
anything, there are probably tricks that would make it
easier.
Quasi
Quasinerd
> that no one in their right mind would teach a 16 week course without going
> or being nuts!! Gee I could probably learn to be a brain surgeon in 16
> weeks? I find that after 4 weeks with my small group, I start dreaming of
> the Bahamas....
LOL.
For someone trying to support herself as an artist who
doesn't yet have a national reputation, maybe she takes
any art teaching job they offer to pay her for?
It's an art museum's art school. Lots of the courses
are 16 weeks. (Or like this one, two 8-week sessions
with a one week break in between for that trip to the
Bahamas.)
Quasi
Quasinerd
> Try to avoid using the grinder for the whole class. Use a corobundum
> (spelling?) stone. It's not better, but you will be a better glass cutter
> for it. A grinder can become a crutch for poor glass cutting
>
I wondered about that, using the grinder instead of
good cutting. Thanks for the warning.
Quasi
mary
if she is knowledgeable about the techniques used
it should open yet another set of goals for you
"Quasinerd" <Quas...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3E3D9726...@netscape.net...
Howard
class. If I made it past the first one. I'm totally
an intellectual nerd, and incompetent at anything
manual, so a suncatcher seems like the place for me to
start just to get a sense of "yes I can do this." Your
intro class probably serves the same function.
And how to do the math, yes that's something I'm
concerned about getting right. I have a mathematical
mind, so I'll be able to work it out. But as with
anything, there are probably tricks that would make it
easier.
Quasi"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
First off ALL of us are incompetent at any skill we have not ever tried or
done.
Some of us are more mechanically inclined and get the idea much more
quickly.
Over the years have had only a few students who really struggled all the
way through the WHOLE course.
I usually "assist" them to a final product that they can feel pound of and
feel they did accomplish most of it with their beginning skill.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am still very leery of your instructor"s qualifications and your ability
to discern what is and is not correct.
I have had MANY students come to me with POOR INSTRUCTIONS (IMHO) from other
teachers and it is VERY hard to convince them there is a better/different
way. (more than one to remove the pelt from a feline)! If you were to poll
most glass teachers and ask if a finished small panel shade is within the
grasp of a TOTAL beginner in 5 weeks most would say NO....my students are
living proof that the answer is YES...it all rests on the skill of the
instructor, both in the ability to teach the technique and the quality of
the finished product.
TO send you off to "buy glass" is WRONG..........You need to know what you
are buying it for, how much you will need and so on.
To do a small panel lamp, I supply a 6*x24(*accurate to within 1/72 ON BOTH
ENDS) inch piece of Spectrum opal that the student has a chance to pick the
color, smooth on BOTH SIDES (you ask why smooth on both sides), so we can
JIG CUT IT.....accurate so each panel will be the same size. REMEMBER, I am
a lampshade specialist (self-taught, too)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MATH..you may take notes here........
Pi x diameter you desire divide by panels SIMPLE, yes?
We have a 3" vase cap we are doing an 8 panel lamp, should be easy from
there (must remember to subtract the thickness of the glass so the cap fits
OVER the glass)
Vase caps are available in 1/8" increments (so I say) and I stock many of
each size, so if the decimal point slips the shade is still capable.
Draw a vertical six inch line, draw the line equal to the top diameter and
center it on the TOP of the 6" vertical.
Decide on the LOWER DIAMETER (not critical here), so lets say about 8" is
close.
8"x 3.14 divide by 8= ( a no brainer here).
center the 3.14 line on the bottom of the vertical 6" line and then connect
the lines to form a trapezoid....this gem then becomes the pattern for your
shade and the template to set the jig from!
I have 20 years worth of WINDOW GLASS TRAPEZOIDS, that I use for my
production panel lamps. All my panel shades are signed and numbered and I
can reproduce them from my card file. I DO NOT USE hand made glass for
production pieces.
When I am set up for production, I cut many sets of panels and by varying
the patterns, I can do about 25 different shades from the original set-up!
any more information and I may as well be teaching this class on line....OF
WHICH I HAVE GIVEN MUCH THOUGHT TO DOING!
Howard (who occasionally auctions off glass)
Quasinerd
> to teach you whatever it is you've decided you should learn.
That is not the impression I intended to convey, which
is the difference between an in person discussion with
tone of voice and body language, and just the bare
words between strangers on a newsgroup.
Do you think I am out of line to want to make sure I
get value from hundreds of dollars plus many hours of
my time (including two hour round trips to the
classes)? In my experience, people who have goals for
their learning get a lot more out of a class than those
who just sit back and wait for learning to happen to
them. :-)
Quasinerd
I grew up in a church with a dozen Tiffany windows,
several relatives are stained glass hobbyists, a close
friend is a stained glass professional. I've seen a
lot of glass in my life and love it all. Finally I
have the space and money to DO it, instead of just
appreciating what other have done.
My immediate goal is doing. Looking with a good guide
can be part of that process.
Quasinerd
> done.
LOL. Thanks for the encouragement.
> I am still very leery of your instructor"s qualifications and your ability
> to discern what is and is not correct.
You may well be right on one or the other or both
counts.
> I have had MANY students come to me with POOR INSTRUCTIONS (IMHO)
True of any skill - some teach a skill well, some
don't, students are not capable of knowing the
difference, because if they were good enough to know
the difference they probably wouldn't be taking the
class as students.
> most glass teachers and ask if a finished small panel shade is within the
> grasp of a TOTAL beginner in 5 weeks most would say NO.
I assumed design is the real issue in glass work, the
artistry of planning a design and choosing the glass
for a piece. As opposed to the mechanics of cutting
and connecting glass pieces. I guess I'll find out!
> it all rests on the skill of the instructor,
Genuinely good teachers are a gem in any field of
study.
> MATH..you may take notes here........
Thanks.
You are jig cutting! Are there jigs now that cut
several layers of glass at once, for production work?
Are they any good? I'm not planning to go into
production, but when I see booths with a dozen of the
same item, I wonder if there are mass production ways
now, or if someone sat down and cut out the same design
over and over (other than for a panel lampshade, where
of course that is needed).
Quasi
mary
Pi is call brother Rudie the engineer....
!
"Howard" <dirtcheapr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DAi%9.4958$ek4.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Howard
Design is certainly important, so as not to try something that is not
compatible with the properties and handling of glass. Design should have
some eye appeal, should be cost and time effective. REMEMBER I do this for
money!
If you have time go to a few places that have glass work, both for sale and
as decor( fancy restaurant, bar or other place with custom work)......see
what you like, why you like it and see what you do NOT like. Churches are
good, but what you see may not have any bearing on what you are going to be
doing.
GO to a library and get a few books on Tiffany and LOOK at them......
I trade on fine quality of work (technique), good color usage and accuracy.
My Tiff type shades sell for a little more than the CRAP from the 3rd world
countries (like a factor of 10 and then triple it). One can drive a YUGO or
a Cadillac, if there is no difference to your eye and needs, buy the Yugo.
My production shades are also done as well as possible! no corners are cut.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++
without going into a lot of detail about MAKING multiple cuts or stacking
glass and cutting in one pass......
My reference to jigs......a way to set up a guide that will enable you to
DUPLICATE by hand each individual cut with a minimum of variance.
Like setting up a ruler and a stop and feeding the glass to the stop and
cutting, feeding the next piece and cutting and so on.
A quick note: you have an inch border that runs around the perimeter of a
panel that is 3x4 feet...figure out the running inches, decide on how big
each rectangle will be, set a jig to cut one inch strips, then set it for
the size of the rectangle needed....that is what I meant.
Rough rule of thumb (and the rest of the fingers) is if I have to make more
than 5 of the same accurate straight line pieces, I set up a jig.
Many of the Tiff lamps have a set of bands and or aperture rings. I cut
strips to whatever the width of the band is, set the jig to do the
trapezoids and cut as many as I need..sometimes as many as 36 little
trapezoids to from a "tuck row". Free hand cutting WILL NOT WORK for that.
Over the years I have played with many tools that are touted to be the best
and a must have.....I do not use a band saw, nor see the need for one. I do
use a grinder (sparingly). Try what is there, and I suggest not buying
anything until you play with a lot of stuff. My students usually go with a
pistol grip type carbide cutter, for me I hate them...I have 22 year old
original style Toyo and only change the wheel about every 3 or 4 years.
Morton makes a good set up for MULTIPLE single piece STRAIGHT LINE CUTTING.
DO NOT BUY unless you are going to do a lot of repetitive straight line
cutting.
I really feel I should let you future teacher spend some time with you, too!
enjoy, Howard
Mary
I'm interested in constructing a Jig. I'm also taking a class and
currently making a lampshade. We use a Jig to check that each section
(3 pieces) fit together, before we tack solder. The template is
placed on the Jig and held in place with two batons using wing nuts.
I wondered if it was possible to cut a small piece of timber with rows
of holes and to use this for different template sizes. The batons and
wing nuts would be placed on the template (any size) and then screwed
down using the nearest hole.
Does this make sense.
M
Harold E. Keeney (Hal)
Don't despair! My first teacher had years of SG
experience and her teaching skills were wanting.
Quietly listen and watch what is taught and done
for your benefit. Keep trying your own way of
doing things - but remembering how others help
you with suggestions. I butchered glass for about
a year, and then on a trip, stopped in Old Salem,
CT. The store owner (Vijon) proceeded to ask
me to cut some plate glass. Two cuts and he stopped me - showed me what I
was doing wrong
and turned me loose for about 20 minutes of
absolutely fascinating glass cutting. Confidence
was oozing and still is. The rest is doing to obtain
experience. You don't learn anything unless you
make mistakes. And I pride myself in learning
something new every day. Good luck - have fun!
Hal
"Quasinerd" <Quas...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3E3DA796...@netscape.net...