Finding the tinned side of float glass
David Davis
the side of the glass
than on the colour.
I want to use a uv light with a purple filter to identify the tinned side. I
cant find a ready made item and I cant find a purple filter to use with an
uv light - photographic suppliers dont list them.
Does anyone have a clue please.
Davedd
Buddha327
cost of the UV flashlight is $52 and is what you are looking for. I am sorry
that I don't have Pacific Art Glass's phone number but you should be able to
get it from information. When using the light the "tinned" side will appear
cloudy white. Good Luck!
"Picture a massless particle"
Hale Sweeny
matter?
The letter below mentions a purple filter. Is that different from a filter
which filters out all but the uv light?
hale - the rank Newbie
David Davis <Dav...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8lm7ei$ils$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
Mike Firth
built
in. Fluorescent bulbs without the filter are BL-used in bug lights among other
things;
those with the filter are BLB. When selling the bulbs, I usually tell people
that in a dark room the BL will light up a poster, but also show the outlines of
the poster and door, etc., while the BLB will only light up the poster, leaving
other areas dark. (Of course if the poster is big enough, it may give off enough
light .......... :-)
Hale Sweeny wrote:
>
> The letter below mentions a purple filter. Is that different from a filter
> which filters out all but the uv light?
>
> hale - the rank Newbie
>
> David Davis <Dav...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:8lm7ei$ils$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> > I am using different shades of silver stain and the result depends more on
> > the side of the glass
> > than on the colour.
> >
> > I want to use a uv light with a purple filter to identify the tinned side.
> I
> > cant find a ready made item and I cant find a purple filter to use with an
> > uv light - photographic suppliers dont list them.
> >
> > Does anyone have a clue please.
> >
> > Davedd
> >
> >
--
Mike Firth
Hot Glass Bits newsletter and furnace glass information web site
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/start.htm
ongoing suggestions about welding and sheetmetal for glassworkers
Bert Weiss
Will your hardware store bulbs reflect the white layer on the tin side of
float glass?
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Sculpture Lighting Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Hale Sweeny
In my other life, I do lapidary, and some of the minerals we come across
give beautiful colors under uv lighting - enough so that there is a company
devoted to making uv lights for rockhounds (and for museums and other
display cases). The company, UV Systems, is headed up be Don Newsome, and
their website is at http://www.uvsystems.com/. On the bulb page are
pictures of minerals lit with uv lights showing the wonderfully gaudy
colors.
I have explained the problem of finding the tin side to Don, via e-mail, and
have asked him to recommend the cheapest setup for finding the tin side, and
will publish his response when received. Meanwhile, if you want to learn
more about uv lighting, just do an AltaVista search on ( +uv +blb +bulbs)
and you will have reading material for a month!. I particuarly like the
website at: http://www.misty.com/~don/uvbulb.html
hale -- the Newbie guy
Hale Sweeny
(from Hale)
I want a UV light for one simple purpose -- to find which side of glass
(which was made flat by floating on molten tin as it was being formed) is
the down or tin side. The tin side will glow white uder a uv light.
Therefore I want the cheapest light I can buy -- I'll use it maybe 4 or 5
times a year!! Do you have any advice? Flashlight?
--------------------
(from Don)
A very cheap short wave (SW) UV light would only work in total darkness,
because the glass is not that fluorescent (I know). I do not have a
"cheapie" SW UV light. The only one that I have that is hand-held is my
SuperBright 2000SW and it sells for $385.00 plus shipping. The
SuperBright would be able to detect the fluoresce in a low ambient lighting
situation.
--------------------
(from Hale)
Thank you for your answer and for your advice. About detecting the tin
side of glass, this is a common problem for glass workers (as you probably
know) and I would be happy to find an inexpensive system which would work in
total darkness -- I'd just go into my darkroom to use it.
I appreciate your response --Oh, I really like your website!!
--------------------
SO.... we need to try a cheap SW light in as total darkness as possible to
see if it will detect the 'glow'.
hale
Hale Sweeny <ha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8lt813$5an$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
Bert Weiss
I own parts of two cheap UV flashlights that can read the tin side in low
ambient light. My hand shading the light is often enough, When the
batteries are low I'll close the garage door to lower ambient light. I
bought these from Dan Fenton who is no longer selling them. I think I just
got his Email address I'll look it up and ask him what they are.
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Sculpture Lighting Tableware
Architectural Commissions
> From: "Hale Sweeny" <ha...@mindspring.com>
> Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass
> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:43:27 -0400
> Subject: Re: Finding the tinned side of float glass
>
Neon John
Bert Weiss wrote:
>
> Hale
>
> I own parts of two cheap UV flashlights that can read the tin side in low
> ambient light. My hand shading the light is often enough, When the
> batteries are low I'll close the garage door to lower ambient light. I
> bought these from Dan Fenton who is no longer selling them. I think I just
> got his Email address I'll look it up and ask him what they are.
>
Here's about the cheapest you can do. Go to Home Depot and buy the
$8 cordless 4" fluorescent fixture. Usually is in a blister-pack on
a shelf-hanger. For longwave UV, AKA "black lite", buy a 4" black
light bulb from the same place. About $10. For shortwave UV, buy a
germicidal 4" lamp. The cheapest source I know of is
Austin Electronics,
Lloyd Carver, owner
770-449 8697
in Atlanta, GA.
Lloyd bought several hundred of these bulbs surplus several years
ago because they fit in EPROM erasers. He gets $10 for them.
Figure about twice that retail. The bulb is a G4T5, 4 watt. You'll
know it's the right bulb when it says "Never look into the burning
lamp" on the envelope.
With either bulb, the plastic shield must be left off because it
absorbs almost all UV.
The high voltage source in the fixture emits some DC which causes
one end of the bulb to blacken first. The bulb should be reversed
end for end in the fixture every hour or so of use to even this
effect out.
I haven't tried float glass but the leaded glass I use for neon work
glows brightly under the shortwave UV. Bright enough that it can be
plainly seen under normal shop light.
John
--
John De Armond
johngd...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"
Mike Firth
When I tested, I got an effect that was different on one side, but it
wasn't very obvious.
The cheapest UV source is a 75 watt incandescent bulb with heavy black
filtering, $2.59*. The bulb gets very hot in use.
BLB flourescent bulbs (only) are 18" $12.99, 24" $16.99, 48" $23.99
* at Elliott's Hardware.
BL bulbs are about 2/3's the price (48" $13.99) but give off faint
visible light also.
Glenn Woolum
hobby shop for $45. It is a really nice unit in a lot of ways. The plastic
body seems a little cheap, but it is strong enough. It has windows for both
short and long wave UV. I've noticed that I can see the tin side of float
very well in ambient light with it.
It comes with an AC adapter and will run on batteries. This is kind of a
neat feature if you have a little bit of a rock hound in you because you can
take it out to find flourescent rocks at night. It's a cool thing to do with
a child who's getting curious about geology and such. With both short and
longwave light on at the same time you can find rocks that flouresce on
either wavelength without switching back and forth.
One drawback is that *both* short and long wave UV lamps light when it is
turned on, but you can easily cover one or the other if you want to view
just short or just longwave. I've noticed that you can identify float easily
without covering up the longwave. The tin side glows as brightly either way.
--
Regards,
Glenn Woolum
Barbara Cashman
wave uv light for this purpose in Fisher Scientific catalog for about
$38.00.
Barbara
"Glenn Woolum" <gwooly-...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:x2%g5.26573$ga2.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Sundog
will detect the tin side of float glass?
I have an incandescent 'blacklight' A type bulb which does absolutely
nothing regarding the tin side of float glass. I have tried it since I had
one... no luck. For this function I understand we need not just 'wonderful'
lights, but a rather specific wavelength. Also in a previous life I came to
know that the fluorescent fixtures were a far more effective 'blacklight'
than other types.
Please confirm or not, as I, for one, WILL buy one if it really works for
this purpose.
Thanks, Jacques Bordeleau
________________________________________________________________________
Cheryl wrote in message <20000802212122...@ng-fq1.aol.com>...
>OK - here's a CHEAP source to buy BLACK LIGHTS
>
>http://www.sciplus.com/
>use "SEARCH " Feature and type in
>Blacklight (no quotes!)
>
>current models available include
>" Blacklights!!!
>Your choice of (5) different kinds of these wonderful lights..l....
stimulation
>of any phosphorescent materials. To avoid eye damage, please do not look
>directly at the filament of the light. he (3) bulb types are (A) a regular
>household “A” shape 75 watt bulb, (B) a75 watt indoor spotlight, and (C): a
>skull shaped 40 watt bulb with standard household screw base. We also have
(2)
>models which come complete with a lighting fixture, reflector, and 18”
>fluorescent tube: The household model has a 18 watt bulb and 6 ft cord for
a
>standard wall outlet; the car model comes with a 15 watt bulb and 15 ft
cord
>for a cigarette lighter outlet. 88605 BLKLIT, HOUSEHOLD $1.75/each
> 89401 BLKLIT, SPOTLIGHT $3.95/each
> 91472 BLKLIT, SKULL $4.95/each
> 91252 BLKLIT CAR FIXTURE $24.95/each 89402 BLKLIT FLUOR. FIXTURE $19.95"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Cheryl of DRAGON BEADS
>Flameworked beads and glass
>http://www.dragonbeads.com/
>
Cheryl
Cheryl
Please confirm or not, as I, for one, WILL buy one if it really works for
this purpose.
No - I can't confirm whether these meet the needs to determine "tin" side on
glass...
but one of them is a fluorescent bulb.
I have a cheapy, hand-held Black light, battery operated with what appears to
be a miniature 4Inch flurorescent bulb in it.. and I use it when antique
hunting.
Works great for that - as long as I am not in direct sunlight.
You can tell the difference between some old glass and some new glass with
these.... won't go into that here.
I think Radio Shack also sells a small battery operated setup....
I just thought I'd toss out a possible low-cost alternative source...
Glenn Woolum
can tell you that the short wave black light is the only one that works for
detecting the tin side of float glass.
Most black lights that are on the market for general consumption are long
wave black lights and will not work for detecting the tin side of float.
Short wave black light is harmful to the eye, but long wave is not, which is
probably why it is the long wave variety that you find being used at parties
and head shops, etc...
Unless the manufacturer specifically states that a black light is short
wave, it is most likely long wave and won't work for float.
--
Regards,
Glenn Woolum
"Cheryl" <drag...@aol.combeads> wrote in message
news:20000802212122...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
Sundog
when I'm in the city soon....who knows. I ask because I also have a 'spendy'
UV lamp for curing the UV glass glue, and the wavelength is completely
incorrect for the float glass question..... no effect at all. So I know all
UV lamps will not work for this, and so I'm still shopping, and hoping to
find a thrifty deal too.... who knows, maybe I'll score one before I have a
foul-up on a project. I've been lucky so far I guess, but I'd like to know
for sure sometimes.
regards, Jacques Bordeleau
______________________________________________________________
Cheryl wrote in message <20000803123958...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>
>
>Please confirm or not, as I, for one, WILL buy one if it really works for
>this purpose.
>
>No - I can't confirm whether these meet the needs to determine "tin" side
on
>glass...
>but one of them is a fluorescent bulb.
>I have a cheapy, hand-held Black light, battery operated with what appears
to
>be a miniature 4Inch flurorescent bulb in it.. and I use it when antique
>hunting.
>Works great for that - as long as I am not in direct sunlight.
>You can tell the difference between some old glass and some new glass with
>these.... won't go into that here.
>
>I think Radio Shack also sells a small battery operated setup....
>I just thought I'd toss out a possible low-cost alternative source...
Crystal Images
Glenn Woolum wrote:
Barbara Cashman
Barbara
"Crystal Images" <mneher...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:3989B15F...@lightlink.com...
Neon John
Barbara Cashman wrote:
>
> long wave...360 nanometers.
>
> Barbara
>
> "Crystal Images" <mneher...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
> news:3989B15F...@lightlink.com...
> > Which would one use for curing UV adhesive?
> >
Depends on the adhesive. Long wave for Norland. Very intense short
wave for Loctite. No experience with any of the others. Best to
read the instructions (or web sites) for the adhesive of interest.
Crystal Images
what kind of light I have. The bulbs say "Sylvania blacklight blue,
15W". Seemed to work fine on my Norland, so maybe they're long wave. I
just got some new adhesive at GAS- Norland's shelf life is too short for
me (and it was always a couple of months old when they sent it!). The
new stuff seems to work too. I did like Norland's non-anaerobic quality,
though. Anyway, thanks for the info.
Margaret
Neon John
Crystal Images wrote:
>
> Wasn't a very useful question anyway, considering that I have no idea
> what kind of light I have. The bulbs say "Sylvania blacklight blue,
> 15W". Seemed to work fine on my Norland, so maybe they're long wave. I
> just got some new adhesive at GAS- Norland's shelf life is too short for
> me (and it was always a couple of months old when they sent it!). The
> new stuff seems to work too. I did like Norland's non-anaerobic quality,
> though. Anyway, thanks for the info.
You're welcome. You have a longwave, AKA "blacklight" bulb. You
might try refrigerating Norland. I've kept it for a year+ that
way. I really like Norland because it is UV cured as opposed to
Loctite's UV catalyzed. This means it cures as long as light is on
it and stops curing when the light is out. This allows me to bring
the adhesive right up to a gell before assembling the pieces,
turning the light back on and finishing the cure. I can get away
with hand-holding many pieces that would require fixturing with the
other stuff. UV catalyzed (Loctite) adhesive proceeds to full cure
once a threshold of UV light dose is applied. In other words, the
UV light "trips its trigger" and then it cures. Adding more UV
doesn't speed the process and it can't be stopped or slowed once
started.
I'm curious about details of the other adhesive you bought and from
where.
Crystal Images
Norland formula are you using? I use #68, which tacks in about 20 seconds,
allowing me to hold the pieces with my hands until they "grab". I also like
it that excess is easy to peal off before the cure is full. One of the things
I like about it's not being anaerobic. How long does Loctite take to cure?
The adhesive I bought at GAS just says "Art Glass UV Glue" on the label,
along with contact info and some warnings. The exclusive US distributor is
Lorenz studios (860-567-4280), and it's made by Tangent Industries. There's
also an email address which I'll send you if you email me privately (remove
"NOSPAM" from my address), since I don't know if it's cool to post other
people's email addresses on newsgroups. I've only used it once, so I can't
tell you much about it's behavior. If you're seriously interested, let me
know: I'd be happy to run some tests.
Regards,
Margaret
Neon John
Crystal Images wrote:
>
> Interesting. I didn't know about the different curing characteristics. Which
> Norland formula are you using? I use #68, which tacks in about 20 seconds,
> allowing me to hold the pieces with my hands until they "grab". I also like
> it that excess is easy to peal off before the cure is full. One of the things
> I like about it's not being anaerobic. How long does Loctite take to cure?
I've been using the Norland 60. The #68 looks interesting too. To
tell the truth, I didn't realize they made so many adhesives. #60 is
is very rigid once cured and bonds to the glass so tightly that
sometimes it will chip the glass like hide glue when broken apart.
I'm not sure how long Loctite takes but it's awhile. hand-holding
really isn't practical. Especially since it takes a huge dose of
shortwave UV to trigger it. IF you look on Noreland's data sheet on
#60 here: http://www.norlandprod.com/adhesives/noa60.html, you'll
see a mention of "oxygen inhibition". This is a real problem with
the loctite adhesives. What happens is oxygen in the air inhibits
the curing of the adhesive wherever it is exposed to air. The
surface remains tacky regardless of how much UV is applied. Aside
from being annoying, it leaves a dull surface.
Crystal Images
I'd never heard that term. Sounds like you'd like the #68. It's thick enough to
fill small gaps, and is flexible when cured. I first used it in an application
where I was glueing glass to acrylic. Liked it so much I never switched (til
recently, maybe). I think this new adhesive I have stays tacky in air. We'll see
how much it bugs me.
Margaret
Cheryl
THANK YOU for posting this -
it explains why I had such Horrible results trying to use LOCTITE
- your description fit my experience DEAD ON....
at least now I know WHY!!!
THANKS AGAIN
<<how long Loctite takes but it's awhile. hand-holding
really isn't practical. Especially since it takes a huge dose of
shortwave UV to trigger it. IF you look on Noreland's data sheet on
#60 here: http://www.norlandprod.com/adhesives/noa60.html, you'll
see a mention of "oxygen inhibition". This is a real problem with
the loctite adhesives. What happens is oxygen in the air inhibits
the curing of the adhesive wherever it is exposed to air. The
surface remains tacky regardless of how much UV is applied. Aside
from being annoying, it leaves a dull surface.