Guinness... how to duplicate?
Brian
I have not been successful in making a stout that resembles Guinness.
And when I mean Guinness, I mean the Real McCoy Guinness on tap
throughout Britain.
What is it about Guinness that gives it that great taste? Any
suggestions on how to duplicate?
Brian.
SeaRobin
What it is is this......at some point during the brewing process, an
amount of "Soured" beer from a previous batch is added to the batch
being made. Just how one properly "Sours" the beer or how much is
added is a mystery to me. (Perhaps someone else knows). That is why
it is next to impossible to recreate the wonderful flavor of
Guinness.......If you find out how to do it....please E-mail me. I
would love to try and make it myself.
Sea
Steve Shapson
Brian: Here's a recipe that might work. I'm trying the same thing. I
just it in the fermentor four days ago and it does taste(so far) like
Guinness. I did not do the sour partial wort thing, as the recipe says.
I did a 90 minute boil. I guess if you add the soured wort, you have to
boil for three hours to kill the soured wort bacterial. I'm also going
to use Nitrogen gas to force carbonate. Two pubs in our city use a
blend of 30% CO2 and 70% nitrogen(N2) in their imported draft Guinness.
The N2 should give the stout a better long lasting head and shorten the
keg conditioning time. I'll let the group know if I've succeeded. But
then, it can't be this easy, cause Guinness is quite special.
-Steve
Guinness Stout Clone
Specifics: OG 1.044 FG 1.0
Alcohol 4.3% Hop IBU's 33.7 Color:srm 114
Malts/Sugars Hops
1.5# Roast Barley 10% .5 oz Chinook 12.5% 60min or
Northern Brewer(better)
7.0# Pilsner 2-row 65% .5 oz Kent-Goldings 5.2% 60min
2.0# Flaked Barley 25%
1 tsp Irish Moss 15min
Wyeast Irish Stout 1084
2 TBS Gypsum/1 TSP CaCO3 in mash water. Mash Time 75 min (149-150)
12 gtts lactic acid in 5.5 gal sparge water.
45 min (152-153) add 1/3 gal
Boiling water. Mash out with 1 qt boiling
Boil Time 90 min. water.
To boil, add 1 gal(or so) of previously soured(with lactobacillus
acidophilis culture) 2 capsules.
Ferment at 65-69 F for two weeks. Force carbonate with nitrogen(N2).
Dublin Ions Ca++ 119 mg/1 CO3--156 mg/1
Mg++4 mg/1 SO4--53 mg/1
Na+12 mg/1 Cl-19
(I didn't try to match these Ions exactly)
Greg Pyle
> I did a 90 minute boil. I guess if you add the soured wort, you have to
> boil for three hours to kill the soured wort bacterial. I'm also going
Actually, about 10 min. at 70 C should kill most, if not all, of the bacteria.
Greg.
--
Greg Pyle
Dept. of Biology
University of Saskatchewan
jksk...@po.iijnet.or.jp
Brian wrote:
> I have not been successful in making a stout that resembles Guinness.
> And when I mean Guinness, I mean the Real McCoy Guinness on tap
> throughout Britain.
>
> What is it about Guinness that gives it that great taste? Any
> suggestions on how to duplicate?
I had a Guiness in Dublin about 7 or 8 years ago and I haven't forgotten it. I
had to go back to London that night but I asked the concierge at the hotel were
I could get a good Guiness in London. He just happened to be Irish and
responded that outside of Dublin the Guiness is not the same. He recommended
one place, a real Irish haunt, that might do, . . . but it didn't.
Go to Dublin to this old hotel across from the Allied Irish Bank headquarters.
that 's the only good Guiness I know of.
John Schultz
jksk...@po.iijnet.or.jp
Ashley Dickson
Brian <bm...@awinc.com> wrote:
>I have not been successful in making a stout that resembles Guinness.
>And when I mean Guinness, I mean the Real McCoy Guinness on tap
>throughout Britain.
>What is it about Guinness that gives it that great taste? Any
>suggestions on how to duplicate?
>Brian.
============================================================
This is all the info that I have collected from threads here on RCB. Hope
it is of some use.
============================================================
The following Guinness Clone recipe is excellent, although next time I
will use all British malts. By the way, N2 is essential for two things:
that extra creamy head and a particularly sweet head, neither of which has
been accomplished when I used just CO2:
SUDS Recipe Report Page:
1
04/05/1996 21:07:22 Guinness Clone (ver 3.0)
Category : Classic Dry Stout
Method : Full Mash
Starting Gravity : 1.045
Ending Gravity : 1.011
Alcohol content : 4.4%
Recipe Makes : 6.0 gallons
Total Grain : 11.50 lbs.
Color (srm) :114.6
Efficiency : 75%
Hop IBUs : 33.0
Malts/Sugars:
7.50 lb. Pilsner 2-row
0.50 lb. Cara-Pils Dextrine
2.00 lb. Flaked Barley
1.50 lb. Roast Barley
Hops:
0.50 oz. Chinook 12.8% 60 min
0.50 oz. Kent Golding 5.2% 60 min
Boil temperature of water: 212F
Grain Starting Temperature: 65F
Desired Grain/Water Ratio: 1.5 quarts/pound
Strike Water: 4.31 gallons of water at 163F
First Mash Temperature: 149F
Second Mash Temperature: 153F
Boiling Water to add: 0.34 gallons
Water Absorbed by Grain: 1.15 gal
Water Evaporated during boil: 3.00 gal
Wort Left in Brewpot: 0.33 gal
Add 5.83 gal of water to yield 6.0 gal of wort
Notes:
1. Add 1 gallon soured beer to boil. (When cooled, return 1 gallon to
the souring bottle and let set with airlock until next batch is brewed!
2. Use 2 Tbs gypsum and 1 tsp CaCo3 to mash water, acidify sparge to 5.2
pH with lactic acid.
In message <4mvufd$2...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> - d...@ember.eng.sun.com (David
R.
Emberson) writes:
>
>I am sure this must fall into the category of a FAQ, but I
>am looking for a Guiness clone recipe. Is it absolutely
>necessary to carbonate with nitrogen (nitrogenate?) to
>achieve that creamy head?
There is probably no such thing as a perfect clone, but I'll share with you
(and anyone else watching) some of the things I have been able to learn in
my
similar attempts. None of this is authenticated by any factual source that
I
know of.
I do not think you HAVE to use N2 to achieve the creamy head, but it would
surely help. Otherwise, the longer the beer can be allowed to rest under
CO2
at cool (serving) temperatures, the better the head. I keg and use forced
carbonation. I will let the stout sit at serving temperature and under
serving pressure for a minimum of 14 days before serving; it's better after
30
days. It seems to work!
The first (and perhaps most interesting) aspect of Guinness is that there
appears to be more than one recipe! The stout served in Ireland is
different
from that sold in England and also from that exported to the US. I refer
to
these as the "Irish Stout", an "English Stout", and an "Export Stout". The
priniple difference seems to have to do with the amount of sour mash flavor
included in the brew. There could easily be other differences as well.
So when I brew my "Guinness-a-like", I also need to decide which one of
these
targets I am hoping to hit. I start with a basic stout recipe (see below)
that makes what I call the "English" version; it has NO sour mash taste.
Or
start with whatever recipe you think comes closest and adjust from there.
If
I decide to make the "Export" or "Irish" version, I will sour the brew
(after
fermentation), with the "Iish" being the most sour.
As I understand, Guinness actually allows part of the mash to get
"infected"
with a lacto-baccilli (why can I not think how to spell this morning?). I
did
not want to fool around with that sort of thing (tough to control, lots of
extra work, etc.), so I sour the beer by adding carefully controlled
amounts
of lactic acid after fermentation is complete. I add it to the keg as I
rack
from the secondary fermenter; if I were bottling, I would add it along with
the priming sugar.
How much lactic acid? You'll have to be the judge of that for yourself as
you
decide how "Irish" versus how "English" you want your stout. <g> The 5
gal-US batch I currently have on tap contains 40cc of an 88% solution of
lactic acid; it is VERY sour. You might want to try half that and adjust
according to your tastes.
Good luck!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY STOUT
(5 gallons US)
Grain bill:
11.0# pale malt
1.0# British crystal (60L)
0.5# black patent malt
0.5# roast barley
Mash 90 mins; target 154F and pH=5.2; soft water!
Hop schedule:
1.0oz Clusters hops (7.8%AA) (90 mins)
0.5oz Willamette (4.8%AA) (30 mins)
0.5oz EKG (5.2%AA) (30 mins)
London British ale yeast
0-40cc lactic acid (88% solution) to finished beer (to taste)
d...@ember.eng.sun.com (David R. Emberson) wrote:
>I am sure this must fall into the category of a FAQ, but I
>am looking for a Guiness clone recipe. Is it absolutely
>necessary to carbonate with nitrogen (nitrogenate?) to
>achieve that creamy head?
> Dave
No doubt everyone on the net has an opinion about the "real" Guinness
recipe, but for some actual information, you might want to pick up a
copy of the March issue of Brew Your Own; Sal Emma actually *visited*
the brewery and got a ton of useful information about how the beer is
produced.
Base information: 65% pale malt; 25% raw (for homebrewers, use flaked)
barley; and 10% roasted barley. Hops are a blend of whatever works
(Nugget, Galena, Northern Brewer, Pride of Ringwood, Kent Goldings)
and whatever is available, added only once.
Read somewhere else (Ale Street News?) about one of Guinness'
employees whose job it is to see that the beer is being poured right
at various taps around the U.S. and that the nitrogen/CO2 mix be just
right, taps clean, temperature correct, etc. They've got a lot of
money to ensure that the beer is always just right, knowing that
someone trying a beer for the first time is only likely to try it once
if it isn't good. At any rate, they seem to think nitrogen is pretty
important (witness those fancy pub cans).
--Jeff Frane
In article <4n7pgm$5...@nadine.teleport.com> jfr...@teleport.com (Jeff
Frane) writes:
>From: jfr...@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
>Subject: Re: In Search of the Perfect Guiness Recipe
>Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:58:46 GMT
>d...@ember.eng.sun.com (David R. Emberson) wrote:
>>I am sure this must fall into the category of a FAQ, but I
>>am looking for a Guiness clone recipe. Is it absolutely
>>necessary to carbonate with nitrogen (nitrogenate?) to
>>achieve that creamy head?
>> Dave
I recently spent some time with the ex master brewer of Murphy's irish
Stout,
fine fellow, passed thorugh this part of the world and I met him at a
cricket match !
I bounced the 80% pale, 10% roast barley and 10% flaked barley off him and
he
says yes, that's about right. But he says they only use flaked barley for
cost
reasons really.
The hops are one bittering addition as I understood him.
As for the gas, nitrogen dissolves and comes out of solution in a very
different way to carbon dioxide but isn't as soluble as CO2. Therefore they
mix CO2 and N2 in the same brew and hence the creamy head. Here in South
Africa I can now get the mix of CO2 and N2 in one bottle, called top gas or
something. It gives a rather nice creamy feel to your draught I will say.
Oh, and my guinness with the 80/10/10 recipe tasted gorgeous, quite a bit
like
guinness too.
Regards,
Jeremy Wallis.
JWA...@CSIR.CO.ZA
I've seen a recipe published in three different books for Guiness stout,
the only dark grain included was roasted barley and flaked barley was a
substantiat portion of the grist.
On Thu, 30 May 1996, Bill Press wrote:
> edb...@tsl.uu.se wrote:
> >
> > This is the data for Guinness Draught:
> >
> > OG 39, 130 EBC, 45 BU, 4.2% alcohol by volume.
> > British Pale malt (95% of the grist)
> > Black malt (5% of the grist)
> > Bullion pellets for bitterness
> > Golding extract for aroma
> > Infusion mashing, 68 C (i'm not sure)
> > Primary fermentation, 24 C
> > (They use High Gravity Brewing, and with
> > an normal brewing should the fermentation
> > temperature be 18-20 C)
> > Use Wyeast Irish ale or Yeast Lab Irish ale
>
> No roasted unmalted barley in a stout? This doesn't seem right. Also,
> I thought Guinness used copious quantities (20%) of flaked barley.
>
>
>
>
>
> This is the data for Guinness Draught:
>
> OG 39, 130 EBC, 45 BU, 4.2% alcohol by volume.
> British Pale malt (95% of the grist)
> Black malt (5% of the grist)
> Bullion pellets for bitterness
> Golding extract for aroma
> Infusion mashing, 68 C (i'm not sure)
> Primary fermentation, 24 C
> (They use High Gravity Brewing, and with
> an normal brewing should the fermentation
> temperature be 18-20 C)
> Use Wyeast Irish ale or Yeast Lab Irish ale
I wonder where this "data" came from? It is well known
that Guinness is made with flaked or raw barley and 10%
roasted barley. I dont think that 5% black malt will come
close to tasting like Guinness, maybe a porter but not a
stout. The barley (raw or flakes) is key to getting the
head and creaminess out of a very low gravity beer.
Jim Busch
For those who have a steady hand at the lauter-tun (and who truly believe
that patience is a virtue), go ahead and brew your stout with about 20%
flaked barley in the grist. The beta-glucans in the unmalted barley are
*essential* to the formation of that classic Guinness head you could float
your dog on. If you really want to go the distance, dispense the beer from
your keg through a tap with a restrictor plate (a plastic disk with 5 tiny
holes) pushed by a 70/30 mix of N2/CO2 at about 25 psig. Faucets such as
this are available for @$75 thru beer equipment distributors. The gummy
beta-glucans, the high shear forces of the restrictor plate and the poor
solubility of nitrogen are what combine to create that awesome head.
Unfortunately, there's really no other way to do it satisfactorily.
Believe me-I've tried! Before I learned all of this stuff, I'd of eaten
cat shit with a knitting needle if I thought it would help. E-mail me for
more details if you want.
van...@aol.com
David R. Emberson
I don't understand why this guy is only getting 1.045 OG from 11.5 lbs.
of malt in six gallons. Sounds like a rather inefficient sparge to me.
Dave