Belgian Beer Sucks
Rod
The literature had me curious. I tried a framboise and was pleasantly
surprised since I've never been much for fruit flavored beer. The sourness
was something new, not to mention the cherry red color. Lindemans at Trader
Joes got me interested.
So now I've tried a bunch of them. The common denominator a syrupy
sweetness that reminds me of Manchewitz wine. Disgusting. Sure 9% ABV
almost makes it worth pinching your nose and taking your medicine, but I'm
not in it purely for the buzz. The coriander thing is not my cup of tea
either - can definitely do without it.
As I'm sure I'll get flamed, I don't claim beer tasting credentials. I only
know what I like and what will leave me purging after 1 to many.
Here's a recap of some of those I've had the fortune and misfortune of
drinking....
Chimay....Well it did seem like it was professionally crafted. If you like
the coriander thing and a fizzy high alcohol beer then go for it, but as it
turns out, the only spice I want in my beer is hops. I almost wonder if the
monks don't make this stuff this way to enforce moderation.
Double Bornem - gag. At least the after taste was not as bad as the prune
juice syrupiness of the first swallow.
La Fin Du Monde... I was told this stuff was the best since it was brewed in
North America for Canadian and U.S. markets making it economical....
Dis-gust-ing. The $2.59 per bottle is no bargain to me when I can't swallow
the stuff.
Petrus Brown Ale.... This stuff is not bad, but not worth the import price.
At least it's not spiced, fizzy, or sickeningly sweet (the worst attribute).
Cantillon Geuze.... This stuff I loved. The exception. I started this
Belgian quest looking for something different. Inspired by Lindemans
Framboise I was led to try this. It's definitely on the fringe of what you
can call beer. It's like a cross between ale, vinegar, wine, and stinky
cheese. Some weird stuff and I like it. My wife couldn't take it, but I'd
grab this stuff any chance I get. I'll be looking for Boon's stuff in the
future.
Lindemans Framboise... Not something I'd plan on pulling down a six pack of.
Not just the $4/bottle price, but how much raspberry wine can you drink.
The sourness and smoothness though were what convinced me to explore the
Belgian realm. I'll surely grab a few bottles of this in the future.
So in all... Lambic=aye. Trappists=nay.
See ya, Rod.
Andy Davison
Rod wrote:
> Chimay....Well it did seem like it was professionally crafted. If you like
> the coriander thing and a fizzy high alcohol beer then go for it, but as it
> turns out, the only spice I want in my beer is hops. I almost wonder if the
> monks don't make this stuff this way to enforce moderation.
Since when has Chimay had coriander in it? They even list the ingredients
on the label. Besides which, it doesn't taste like it has coriander in it.
> Cantillon Geuze.... This stuff I loved.
If you like the Canitllon Gueuze you should look out of the Drie Fonteinen
Geuze which I think is even better.
--
Andy Davison
an...@oiyou.force9.co.uk
John D. Misrahi
an incredibly ignorant and narrow minded thing to do. Did you ever take a
bite into a piece of fruit to find out it was unripe, sour, mildewed or
something? Conclusion = all fruit is bad?
*plonk*
Rod wrote in message ...
duckbill
don't know if it is the yeast strain, its by products, or all the candi
sugar that is (typically) used to raise the gravity. In Atlanta, we have a
local brewery that makes a Dubbel for a winter ale that is quite tasty, but
you gotta know your limits.
danno
has matured with respect to beer and wine, I find I enjoy most Belgian
beers. I suspect you will eventually enjoy them as well.
Burp,
-Dan
--
email me at s_danno at msn dot com
---------------------------------------------------------
"Rod" <br...@your.own> wrote in message
news:brjrl9$mh2$1...@news.chatlink.com...
pete...@spikemacunlimited.net
palate'. However this disability is not necessarily something to be
concerned about. Your life can be so much simpler and thriftier than
mine.
I cannot buy the cheapest beer or wine in a store. I cannot eat at
burger bars. I cannot savour 'Tex-Mex cusine'. I have to reject the
offer of 'a coffee' from my friends who I know will only serve instant.
I have to pay ridiculous prices for non-pasturised cheese. I spend hours
making my own real bread.
No, rejoice and economise in your affliction.
Denny Conn
>
> Why pull any punches eh?
> See ya, Rod.
Um, excuse me, but so what? There's lots of stuff lots of people don't
like. Nobody said you were obligated to like Belgian beers...
------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us
John D. Misrahi
Denny Conn wrote in message <3FDE0798...@privacy.net>...
>Rod wrote:
>>
>> Why pull any punches eh?
><snippage>
>> See ya, Rod.
>
>Um, excuse me, but so what? There's lots of stuff lots of people don't
>like. Nobody said you were obligated to like Belgian beers...
>
> ------->Denny
Good point - more for us :-)
Rod
"Denny Conn" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3FDE0798...@privacy.net...
> Rod wrote:
> >
> > Why pull any punches eh?
> <snippage>
> > See ya, Rod.
>
> Um, excuse me, but so what? There's lots of stuff lots of people don't
> like. Nobody said you were obligated to like Belgian beers...
Fair enough, I just thought I'd throw in my $.02 In the brewing literature
and in forums I haven't seen much bad said about Belgian styles. So it
seemed worthwhile to start a discussion on how or why they are or are not so
good. I will say that whether I or anybody finds any particular style
"good" or "bad" it is in the interest of the art to have a wide variety.
Another criticism was made that I'm generalizing unfairly. Well the subject
line in being provakative is deserving of that criticism, but I think it is
evident in what I was saying that I've only scratched the surface of what's
out there. Under the heading of the "Belgian" style there is a very wide
range. Despite my distaste for the majority that I've tried, I will
continue to seek out brews Belgian and otherwise that are new to me.
The common thread in many seems to be a syrupy sweetness and fizziness. My
manner of taking down tall refreshing brews obviously cannot be the intent
for this style of beer. It's more like a small glass with a slice of pie
type of thing. Not really my cup of tea so to speak, but I think it's worth
noting. The style also probably works well as I've read as an ingredient in
cooking - sauces, marinades, etc.
I only play the devil's advocate in contrast to unexplained praise. For me
personally, I can't see picking up a 4-pack of La Fin Du Monde and heading
off to a party. Maybe others have a different taste. To each his own. I
suggest anybody with a curiosity who hasn't tried the stuff, seek it out and
decide for yourself. In learning to brew beer it's crucial to me to see how
greatly the result from the same basic ingredients can be altered. In that
regard, the Belgian stuff definitely has a niche outside what to me as an
American brewer and beer enthusiast is familiar.
Cheers.
Rod
"danno" <m...@privacy.com> wrote in message
news:brkjbr$4ajlm$1...@ID-165820.news.uni-berlin.de...
> When I first started tasting Belgians, I had similar opinions. As my
palate
> has matured with respect to beer and wine, I find I enjoy most Belgian
> beers. I suspect you will eventually enjoy them as well.
Possibly. I think knowing what to expect goes a long way in enjoyment.
Some of these may go down well in moderation with certain foods.
rb
Firstly cheap doesn't always mean nasty - I can get a very nice red for
$10 a bottle - that I'd defy anyone to fault.
The whole pasteurised cheese thing is apparently VERY subjective. Not
having tried that many un-pasteurised, I can't comment personally - but
I heard people in the industry argue both ways. Instant coffee has its
place, christ it's just another version of coffee - just like Belgians
are versions of beer. You've actually just expressed a similar opinion
as the poster you were so 'nicely' criticising.
Rod
<pete...@SPIKEmacunlimited.net> wrote in message
news:1g60kxw.46wsnuunqezkN%pete...@SPIKEmacunlimited.net...
Well, you definitely seem to have a more delicate palate than mine. In
learning to brew I'm definitely still learning to taste. It's a challenge
having to wait weeks before you can judge the effect of a minor ingredient
or procedure change.
Unfortunately, I don't much enjoy the thin mega-brews by the can either and
wouldn't really call my taste in beer economical.
In my albeit limited research on Belgians I did not come across much really
pointing out their nature and how it may not be a taste enjoyable to all -
as I did for lambics in particular which I personally happen to enjoy a lot.
I think having a realistic expectation of what you are about to try may aid
in learning to appreciate new things.
On the other hand it may simply be a matter of taste. While I don't mind a
clovey German Hefe from time to time, I much prefer an estery fruity wheat
beer, which probably relates to why I'm not much for the spicy Belgians.
Maybe my palate is just uneducated or maybe we have different quantities of
sweet and sour taste buds....who knows :)
Regards.
Stratis
gravity, low IBU beers are not my cup of tea. I'd probably prefer the lower
gravity ales but I've never tried them.
I don't care much for any of the wits I've tried.
I once had a fruit lambic which I had to pour out.
In my limited experience with them, I can't say i've ever had a Belgian beer
which I liked.
"Rod" <br...@your.own> wrote in message
news:brjrl9$mh2$1...@news.chatlink.com...
trent gregory hill
>
> "danno" <m...@privacy.com> wrote in message
> news:brkjbr$4ajlm$1...@ID-165820.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > When I first started tasting Belgians, I had similar opinions. As my
> palate
> > has matured with respect to beer and wine, I find I enjoy most Belgian
> > beers. I suspect you will eventually enjoy them as well.
>
> Possibly. I think knowing what to expect goes a long way in enjoyment.
> Some of these may go down well in moderation with certain foods.
>
Part of it is expectation. The first couple of times I tried hefeweizens,
I thought they were unspeakably nasty--barely hopped, weirdly fruity, with
some kind of funky yeast bite, and completely unlike the pale ales I
normally drank. Once I started brewing, I read up on them as part of my
acculturation to the obsession, and found that, indeed, they were supposed
to be barely hopped and yeasty, with flavor profiles that ranged between
clove and banana. I tried a couple classic German hefes, found myself
really digging the subtleties, and embraced them. They're now my standard
session beer, and I no longer expect all beers to emulate a pint of IPA.
Part of it is context. I was never a big fan of Belgian beers until I
spent a long Xmas eve with my best friend in Holland watching _National
Lampoon's Christmas Vacation_ and downing a couple Gulde Draaken. It was
a gloriously fun evening. Since then, I've really dug Belgian beers in
all their diverse funkiness.
Part of it is sheer dumb luck. I'm not fond of sweet beers. The first
time I tried a good kriek, it was a Liefmans, which strikes a perfect
balance between cherry and beer. I have one in the fridge that's marked
for death when I get home.
Belgium probably has more sheer beer diversity packed into a relatively
small area than anywhere else in the world. Keep trying them out and
you'll probably find one that rocks your boat.
Burp,
Trent
Crit Racer
>pete...@SPIKEmacunlimited.net wrote:
>> You have obviously been endowed with what is termed an 'uneducated
>> palate'. However this disability is not necessarily something to be
>> concerned about. Your life can be so much simpler and thriftier than
>> mine.
>>
>> I cannot buy the cheapest beer or wine in a store. I cannot eat at
>> burger bars. I cannot savour 'Tex-Mex cusine'. I have to reject the
>> offer of 'a coffee' from my friends who I know will only serve instant.
>> I have to pay ridiculous prices for non-pasturised cheese. I spend hours
>> making my own real bread.
>>
>> No, rejoice and economise in your affliction.
>>
>God, you sound like a snob
Naw,, he just wiggled the hook at a different depth.
Michal Palczewski
In belgium they say they have 150 breweries so they have 150 styles.
Also you may want to try in a better glass if you haven't been. Don't
pour a belgian in a pint glass. I preffer, chalice, goblet, snifter,
wine glass. In that order.
Stay away from unibrou they are spiced and the yeast is spicy. I
suggest you try a duvel.
Crit Racer
<brewma...@SPAMpalczewski.net> wrote:
>Stay away from unibrou they are spiced and the yeast is spicy. I
>suggest you try a duvel.
dare we not judge a beguim from a non-belguim?? all i know is
my last trip to buffalo has rid me from ever drinking that expensive
champane swill pee-uuuu
John D. Misrahi
ones.
john
Crit Racer wrote in message ...
megaMAX
except the Cantillon and Chimay, maybe you haven't tried the best Belgian
beers... And, BTW, you didn't tried any authentic trappist except the Chimay.
The other are 'abbey' beers but cannot use the hexagonal Authentic Trappist Logo.
Let me suggest next time to try:
- *Orval (Abbaye Notre Dame d' Orval)
- *Westvleteren 8 or 12 (Brouwerij Westvleteren)
- *Rochefort 6, 8 or 10 (Brasserie de Rochefort)
- Baladin Super (Le Baladin) - An excellent italian beer, Belgian Ale style
* Authentic Trappist
Max
Denny Conn
>
> Fair enough, I just thought I'd throw in my $.02 In the brewing literature
> and in forums I haven't seen much bad said about Belgian styles. So it
> seemed worthwhile to start a discussion on how or why they are or are not so
> good. I will say that whether I or anybody finds any particular style
> "good" or "bad" it is in the interest of the art to have a wide variety.
You're not alone in your distaste, though. I brew a lot of Belgian style
beers, and my wife can't even stand the aroma, let alone the
taste..she's a total hophead! Whe I was studying for the BJCP exam,
there were a couple people in our study group that almost gagged every
time we tasted Belgians...but by the end of the study, they were
starting to at least develop an appreciation, if not a taste, for the
style.
-------------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com
Thomas T. Veldhouse
For the most part, I would agree with you. I did find that most of them are
way to syrupy to say the least. I am one for drier ales. I did taste one
not long ago that I like. It was Hoegaarden. It is actually one of the
few beers with wheat in it that I like. Not a beer to swill, but not too
bad.
Tom Veldhouse
Thomas T. Veldhouse
> "danno" <m...@privacy.com> wrote in message
> news:brkjbr$4ajlm$1...@ID-165820.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> When I first started tasting Belgians, I had similar opinions. As my
>> palate has matured with respect to beer and wine, I find I enjoy
>> most Belgian beers. I suspect you will eventually enjoy them as well.
>
> Possibly. I think knowing what to expect goes a long way in
> enjoyment. Some of these may go down well in moderation with certain
> foods.
In some cases, over ice cream ;)
Tom Veldhouse
Thomas T. Veldhouse
> You have obviously been endowed with what is termed an 'uneducated
> palate'. However this disability is not necessarily something to be
> concerned about. Your life can be so much simpler and thriftier than
> mine.
'Uneducated' is a bit insulting, don't you think? If one does not like that
style of beer, they don't. That doesn't make their palate uneducated by any
means. In fact, the knowledge that they don't like it infers that the
palate has indeed been educated. Now, if you mean that he doesn't have a
snob's palate, that is a whole 'nother cup of tea.
Tom Veldhouse
Andy Davison
<3fdf45e1$0$41284$a186...@newsreader.visi.com>, Thomas T. Veldhouse
wrote:
> 'Uneducated' is a bit insulting, don't you think? If one does not like that
> style of beer, they don't. That doesn't make their palate uneducated by any
> means. In fact, the knowledge that they don't like it infers that the
> palate has indeed been educated.
Yeah but the OP did say Chimay is a coriander beer :)
--
Andy Davison
an...@oiyou.force9.co.uk
Rodd Snook
> Rod wrote:
>> So now I've tried a bunch of them. The common denominator a syrupy
>> sweetness that reminds me of Manchewitz wine. Disgusting. Sure 9% ABV
>> almost makes it worth pinching your nose and taking your medicine, but
>> I'm not in it purely for the buzz. The coriander thing is not my cup
>> of tea either - can definitely do without it.
>
>
> For the most part, I would agree with you. I did find that most of them
> are way to syrupy to say the least. I am one for drier ales. I did
> taste one not long ago that I like. It was Hoegaarden. It is actually
> one of the few beers with wheat in it that I like. Not a beer to swill,
> but not too bad.
I'm a big fan of some Belgian beers, but no big fan of residual sweetness.
I find Chimay Red to be about the border of my range. Kwak is too sweet
for my palate, and Orval only just scrapes in because it is balanced by
interesting flavours and extra bitterness.
My solution? Brew my own!
I love the taste of a good Wit, so I brew one with 25% honey, mash a bit
cool and "Ea!" I have a Wit with a F.G. of 1.003, 6% ABV and plenty of
complex flavours. I can drink it till I fall over. (Which at 6% isn't that
long, but you get the idea.)
I say grab a Belgian Ale yeast, brew up a moderately bitter pale or amber
ale with a moderate O.G., no aroma hops, maybe a touch of flavour hops and
let it rip. See if you dislike the flavour of the Belgian yeast, or if it
really is the sweetness and/or spices that get to you.
Rodd
Kelvin Kundert
>Why pull any punches eh?
>
Does not. Why pull any punches, eh? :-P
The variety of Belgian beers is enormous, therefore it is preposterous
to place such a sweeping generalization on the beers of the entire
country. It seems that you prefer the more interesting, funkier
nastier lambic versions available. Seek those out & stay away from
the other styles that you may find objectionable at this point in your
beer tasting career. Personally, I prefer lambics and Flanders red
ales & oud bruins to the other Belgian styles, but also enjoy dubbels,
tripels, witbiers, saisons, etc.
Here are a couple of pages noting the differences of the Belgian
substyles, containing examples of the corresponding styles. It may
help you to learn about which beers you enjoy, & those you haven't yet
(or never will) come to appreciate:
http://bjcp.org/styleguide18.html
http://bjcp.org/styleguide19.html
http://bjcp.org/styleguide20.html
Kelvin
George Cooley
simply said "beer sucks"? There are thousands of varieties of beer in
the world, and as CP says, such a statement is similar to "I don't like
food." Belgians have been brewing beer this way for hundreds of years,
and many of the varieties I have tried are made from recipies that have
clearly been refined over generations. Sure, tastes differ, and of
course one is allowed to not care for a particular style. But to say
that an entire region of diverse beer styles sucks? "Uneducated" is the
only word I can think of to describe it. Learn more about the different
yeasts, the different spices (who dislikes *all* spices?), the different
grains, the different strengths, develop a vocabulary to use to describe
what features you do and don't like, search for varieties that accentuate
the qualities you do like. Educate yourself!
I read once (not sure if it's true) that Belgians use so many spices
because the largest hop producer has been Germany, and culturally, they
just really like to thumb their noses at the Germans. That seems like a
worthy goal. I can taste the centuries of culture in every sip!
Joel Plutchak
> I cannot buy the cheapest beer or wine in a store. I cannot eat at
>burger bars. I cannot savour 'Tex-Mex cusine'.
You Just Haven't Had GoodTexMex.
--
Joel Plutchak "We had all slipped into a silence of exquisite
plutchak@[...] fatigue with no wit to woo us. It was a special
silence. No lambs, just owls." - Neil Innes
Joel Plutchak
>Rod wrote:
>> So now I've tried a bunch of them. The common denominator a syrupy
>> sweetness that reminds me of Manchewitz wine. Disgusting.
>For the most part, I would agree with you. I did find that most of them are
>way to syrupy to say the least. I am one for drier ales.
In my experience, strong Belgian ales may have some sweetness
up front and inthe middle, but the best examples have a very dry
finish. If all you're getting is sweet and syrupy, I'd search
out some other examples.
Thomas T. Veldhouse
"Joel Plutchak" <plut...@brew.ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:bsptoe$371$1...@brew.ncsa.uiuc.edu...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse <vel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Rod wrote:
> >> So now I've tried a bunch of them. The common denominator a syrupy
> >> sweetness that reminds me of Manchewitz wine. Disgusting.
>
> >For the most part, I would agree with you. I did find that most of them
are
> >way to syrupy to say the least. I am one for drier ales.
>
> In my experience, strong Belgian ales may have some sweetness
> up front and inthe middle, but the best examples have a very dry
> finish. If all you're getting is sweet and syrupy, I'd search
> out some other examples.
The examples I tried were Dubbels and Trippels. Both were sweet and syrupy.
One being a Chimay (reserve or some other ... a friend bought it). The only
Belgian beers that I have tried and enjoyed [as unique] so far have been the
white ales, such as Blue Moon (a little) and Hoegaarden .
Tom Veldhouse
John D. Misrahi
I would say that a tripel or strong golden ale should not be syrupy in
mouthfeel......I would hardly call Duvel or Westmalle tripel 'syrupy'. The
belgian strong golden ales I have made (two, so far) both came out really
dry and were great.
john