BE-256 shortage, why? Alternatives?

[Joerg]

Since more than three months all the brew supply places I checked list
BE-256 as out of stock. Why is that when the other Fermentis yeast
strains are widely available?

I just used my last pack. Is there another dry Abbey yeast that behaves
comparably?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Baloonon]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

> Since more than three months all the brew supply places I checked list
> BE-256 as out of stock. Why is that when the other Fermentis yeast
> strains are widely available?
>
> I just used my last pack. Is there another dry Abbey yeast that behaves
> comparably?

I did a quick search and saw one place refer to it as discontinued, but I
don't know if it's their designation or something coming from Fermentis.

There are several other dry yeasts listed as Abby style but I haven't tried
them. I've found even dry yeasts which are supposedly the same strain from
different companies aren't identical, so I would treat them as only rough
approximations until proven otherwise.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28289.0

I've made a number of Belgian style wheat beers with T-58 and I like it, so
I don't have any reason to believe Belgian dry yeasts are bad, but I
suspect they have much wider variations than, say, dry lager yeast.

[Joerg]

On 2020-08-18 09:06, Baloonon wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>
>> Since more than three months all the brew supply places I checked list
>> BE-256 as out of stock. Why is that when the other Fermentis yeast
>> strains are widely available?
>>
>> I just used my last pack. Is there another dry Abbey yeast that behaves
>> comparably?
>
> I did a quick search and saw one place refer to it as discontinued, but I
> don't know if it's their designation or something coming from Fermentis.
>

Per Fermentis it is still in their active product line-up:

https://fermentis.com/en/fermentation-solutions/you-create-beer/

I just wrote to them, hoping better good news. Keeping fingers crossed.
Maybe President Macron is sanctioning the US by not giving us BE-256
anymore :-)

> There are several other dry yeasts listed as Abby style but I haven't tried
> them. I've found even dry yeasts which are supposedly the same strain from
> different companies aren't identical, so I would treat them as only rough
> approximations until proven otherwise.
>
> https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28289.0
>

I never had sulphiric undertones with BE-256. That is strange.

> I've made a number of Belgian style wheat beers with T-58 and I like it, so
> I don't have any reason to believe Belgian dry yeasts are bad, but I
> suspect they have much wider variations than, say, dry lager yeast.
>

Yes, I've also brewed with T-58 (same as you, Belgain Witbier) and it's
ok but for Belgian Tripel and Quadrupel I'd rather have BE-256 or very
similar. Preferably I'd like not to experiment with those higher-class
beers. Aside from losing around $50 worth of ingredients it's also 4-5h
of time going into such a beer.

Next week I'll brew a Tripel but I set my brew schedule database so that
I can harvest some BE-256 from a Patersbier that is in primary now.
Usually I follow all that with a Stout and a 3rd yeast harvesting. I am
probably on the UK's naughty list for using Abbaye yeast for
British-style beer.

[Baloonon]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote

> Yes, I've also brewed with T-58 (same as you, Belgain Witbier) and
> it's ok

I've experienced what a lot of people describe that fermenting in the low
to mid 60s F it's relatively subtle but starting a higher temp and letting
it rise into the mid 70s F makes it give off a lot more spicey phenols.
Both can be good, depending on what you're after.

> but for Belgian Tripel and Quadrupel I'd rather have BE-256 or
> very similar.

Yeah, I assume BE-256 is closer to the typical yeast for those styles.

> Preferably I'd like not to experiment with those
> higher-class beers. Aside from losing around $50 worth of ingredients
> it's also 4-5h of time going into such a beer.

I saw someone on the shopping tab for google selling it in 500 gram blocks,
if you want that much. Looked like it was a bargain for the equivalent of
45 to 50 packets.

[Joerg]

On 2020-08-18 19:46, Baloonon wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote
>
>> Yes, I've also brewed with T-58 (same as you, Belgain Witbier) and
>> it's ok
>
> I've experienced what a lot of people describe that fermenting in the low
> to mid 60s F it's relatively subtle but starting a higher temp and letting
> it rise into the mid 70s F makes it give off a lot more spicey phenols.
> Both can be good, depending on what you're after.
>

I have a fermentation chamber (old wine fridge) with a big compressor
but since the stainless fermenter buckets have no coils I can't cool
them down fast once fermentation starts. So I usually place the primary
fermenters in there, one on the morning, the other in the afternoon.
Then I set the chamber to 62F. When fermentation kicks in the extra
thermometer on the bucket shoots up to 76F-79F. Then I ratchet down the
chamber thermostat to counteract and keep it where I want it.

In the winter I sometimes have to heat for which I made a module and an
electronics box to control that.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber3.JPG

This shows the heater module, looks like a kludge but works:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber2.JPG

>> but for Belgian Tripel and Quadrupel I'd rather have BE-256 or
>> very similar.
>
> Yeah, I assume BE-256 is closer to the typical yeast for those styles.
>

I just love that yeast.

>> Preferably I'd like not to experiment with those
>> higher-class beers. Aside from losing around $50 worth of ingredients
>> it's also 4-5h of time going into such a beer.
>
> I saw someone on the shopping tab for google selling it in 500 gram blocks,
> if you want that much. Looked like it was a bargain for the equivalent of
> 45 to 50 packets.
>

That's a bit much :-)

Since I harvest trub from prior batches I only need 3-5 packets per
year. Since it's a bit pricey I usually brew a lighter Belgian and then
follow with a Tripel or Quadrupel which need more pitching. There is
still plenty of trub left to make bread from.

[Joerg]

On 2020-08-16 12:27, Joerg wrote:
> Since more than three months all the brew supply places I checked list
> BE-256 as out of stock. Why is that when the other Fermentis yeast
> strains are widely available?
>
> I just used my last pack. Is there another dry Abbey yeast that behaves
> comparably?
>

Just got a text from Midwest Supplies that I could substitute Safale 134
or S33. They said the 134 might be a bit dry in the end.

Anyone have an opinion? I'd really like to avoid ruining a batch of
Belgian because those are expensive in ingredients and take hours.

[Baloonon]

My vague recollection is S33 is pretty neutral. I don't think it's an Abbey
yeast, but it won't do something odd, either.

[Joerg]

I'd really like an abbey yeast, I love that taste. Also for Witbier and
Patersbier. BE-256 was really great but I guess all good things come to
an end some day.

I haven't found any Belgian brew groups yet where I could ask. Fench
would be a bit difficult but I am still fairly fluent in Flemish so that
would be easy.

[David M. Taylor]

On Sunday, August 16, 2020 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
> Since more than three months all the brew supply places I checked list
> BE-256 as out of stock. Why is that when the other Fermentis yeast
> strains are widely available?
>
> I just used my last pack. Is there another dry Abbey yeast that behaves
> comparably?

Mangrove Jack steals all their yeast from other manufacturers. Literally, they just buy and repack other yeasts. One of the MJ products is almost definitely equivalent to BE-256. My own guess is that it's probably the M41 Belgian. See my handy chart for this and other ideas, much of which based on actual genetic studies:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing

--
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

[David M. Taylor]

On Friday, September 4, 2020 at 3:41:24 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
>
> Just got a text from Midwest Supplies that I could substitute Safale 134
> or S33. They said the 134 might be a bit dry in the end.
>
> Anyone have an opinion? I'd really like to avoid ruining a batch of
> Belgian because those are expensive in ingredients and take hours.

S-33 is a terrible suggestion. It's a pretty clean English style yeast with low attenuation.

The BE-134 might be good. It's more phenolic and less fruity than the 256.

If you must stick with dry yeast, you might be most successful with Lallemand Munich Classic. Not the "regular" Munich, it must be the Classic. Ferment it warm >70 F (21 C), open and as shallow as you can, as it benefits from broader head space. It won't attenuate as high as BE-256 so you may need to add extra simple sugars to get it to attenuate in similar manner. You could also try Lallemand Abbaye, but I haven't had great experience with it personally, too clean for me.

And if you can go with liquid yeast, well I don't have as much experience there, but there are a lot of options. You might try WLP500 or Wyeast 1214, and again, ferment it warm.

Good luck.

[Joerg]

On 9/10/20 4:22 PM, David M. Taylor wrote:
> On Sunday, August 16, 2020 at 2:27:15 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
>> Since more than three months all the brew supply places I checked list
>> BE-256 as out of stock. Why is that when the other Fermentis yeast
>> strains are widely available?
>>
>> I just used my last pack. Is there another dry Abbey yeast that behaves
>> comparably?
>
> Mangrove Jack steals all their yeast from other manufacturers. Literally, they just buy and repack other yeasts. One of the MJ products is almost definitely equivalent to BE-256. My own guess is that it's probably the M41 Belgian. See my handy chart for this and other ideas, much of which based on actual genetic studies:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing
>

Thanks. However, only one of their two US-suppliers list it at all and
... discontinued :-(

https://shop.brewcraftusa.com/products-search?qs=M41

So I am wondering whether BE-256 is forever going away. I would not
understand that because it's one of the best yeasts I ever used. That
would be a perfect example of businesses shooting themselves in the foot.

> --
> Dave
>
> "This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)
>

Well said :-)

[Howard]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote

> So I am wondering whether BE-256 is forever going away. I would not
> understand that because it's one of the best yeasts I ever used. That
> would be a perfect example of businesses shooting themselves in the
> foot.

Try here:

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/category_s/1864.htm

It's possible it's just a temporary COVID issue. Possibly they're diverting
production to bread yeast, or there may be a shortage of packaging.

[Joerg]

On 9/23/20 4:48 PM, Howard wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote
>
>> So I am wondering whether BE-256 is forever going away. I would not
>> understand that because it's one of the best yeasts I ever used. That
>> would be a perfect example of businesses shooting themselves in the
>> foot.
>
> Try here:
>
> https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/category_s/1864.htm
>

Thanks! I'll ask them about the expiration date and then stockpile a
bit. But only as much as needed so as not to take it away from other
brewers.

> It's possible it's just a temporary COVID issue. Possibly they're diverting
> production to bread yeast, or there may be a shortage of packaging.
>

Strangely all the other yeast strains from Fermentis are widely
available, just no abbaye yeast.