Warm beer lines in tap tower
Leigh Orf
I have been brewing for about 10 years and kegging for about 3
months. I finally saved up my pennies and got a kegerator and
some corny kegs. I'm having a blast! There is only one issue that
is bugging me right now: I have a tower tap (for a picture see
http://beveragefactory.com/refrigerators/beer/pix/option_towers.gif ),
so about a foot or so of the beer lines (I have a two-tap tower) runs
upward in the metal tower housing on top of the refrigerator. The cold
air does not make it into the tower, and the ambient air temperature
surrounding the tower keeps it room temperature in there. This time of
year room temperature is in the 80s.
The problem I have is when I tap a beer, I get a bunch of foam before
the lines cool down and the beer taps better. What I would like to do is
find a way to cool the beer lines in the tower so I don't have this
foaming problem.
I have tried two things, both of which failed miserably:
1. my own system with a power supply fan and pvc tubing connected to a
hose. Problem: Backpressure. Barely any air flowed upward into the
tower.
2. A fish tank pump. Problem: Not enough air again, and the pump seems
to heat up anyway, and my wife hates the 60 cycle hummmmmmmm
I am thinking that if I stick with air cooling, I need to find a way
to move more air. It isn't as if I can just put a fan in there because
there is very little space left for anything to flow into the tower, and
the air has to flow out of the tower too. I need to move air quickly
through a rather small hose with enough pressure to get good return
flow. Ideally I'd like a magic box (which does the pumping/blowing...
maybe a blower fan) with two hoses, one for inflow and one for outflow.
I could put the inflow opening near the cooling coils in the fridge so
I get nice cold air up there, and stick the outflow upwards into the
tower.
Another option is liquid cooling... but that would probably be a bit
expensive and I don't know of anything geared towards the small-time
brewer such as myself. But I am open to any options.
The folks at beverage factory didn't have a solution (I bought the
kegerator from them, this one if it matters:
http://beveragefactory.com/refrigerators/beer/sbc500bv-2.shtml ).
I have heard of glycol cooling systems but haven't been able to find any
non-industrial information on them.
Thanks for any help.
Leigh Orf
deselby0_at_yahoo_dot_com_baby
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
> The problem I have is when I tap a beer, I get a bunch of foam before
> the lines cool down and the beer taps better. What I would like to do is
> find a way to cool the beer lines in the tower so I don't have this
> foaming problem.
That's probably also partly due to any CO2 coming out of solution in the
tubing or (some from the) keg will naturally try and travel upwards to the
highest point. On most systems, the highest point is the tower, so pockets
of gas will tend to gather there over time. It usually doesn't happen very
fast, but can be a contributor to the "first glass is foamy" syndrom.
I agree, the tower being warm probably has a lot to do with it. My own
system works the same way. The tubing in the tower is warm, and I get
foam on the first glass. In my case, the air space in the tower isn't even
connected to the fridge, although I should do that sometime in the future.
> I have tried two things, both of which failed miserably:
>
> 1. my own system with a power supply fan and pvc tubing connected to a
> hose. Problem: Backpressure. Barely any air flowed upward into the
> tower.
The most common homebrewer solution I hear of is to use small computer
fans. Sounds like you've already given that a shot though.
Personally, I just wouldn't worry about it that much and just deal with the
first glass having a bigger head. I pretty much just consider the first
glass in a drinking session to be a warm up anyway... just kidding. ;)
John.
Kerry The Liar Loves Waffles
smaller the less cool air will get inside the tower to reach the
tubing. A small hole = better insulation.
Frank Mancuso
cost prohibitive for a 2-3' run. Many bars have the same issue, and they
open the tap, pouring a little down the drain (which they hate, of
course). What's bad is when that beer in the line gets warm for a while,
it, of course, tastes awful.
Frank in Austin
Ned Buntline
"The problem I have is when I tap a beer, I get a bunch of foam before the
lines cool down and the beer taps better. What I would like to do is find a
way to cool the beer lines in the tower so I don't have this foaming
problem."
The solution, of course, is to draw air up into the tower from the fridge.
That poses a couple of challenges.
There are blowers designed for this purpose. They can be found in beverage
supply houses such as www.admainc.com
What you need to do is put together a tube-within-a-tube design. The larger
tube fits around the opening in the roof of the fridge where the tower comes
out. The second tube surrounds the hoses, and fits within the larger tube,
up about 2/3s of the way into the tower.. Cool air can be blown from the
blower through either of these tubes. The second tube provides the return
for air. You can use a tube-within-tube specialized blower. ADM
Amalgamation has a tower cooling kit p/n TCK-1 (34.95 at last check) which
is specially designed for this problem using 4" and 2" vinyl
duct-within-duct tubing. You won't find this blower on the website. You'd
have to call or order their catalog.
The main issue with this accessory is that your compressor will run more
frequently as warm air is pulled from the tower and blown around the inside
of the cooler. Not enough to worry about lifespan, but enough to up your
electric bill.
No connection, just blah-blah-blah...
Tom M
think it is just a matter of finding the
right fan..
--------------------
Subject: Kegerator Conversion
The Son of Kegerator is now complete. The question posted last week
about fans and ducting was solved as follows: I bought a 120v 3in
fan that got very warm, so I returned it. I had a 3in 12vdc fan
laying around the house from a refrigerator and decided to try and
figure out how to power it. In a moment of clarity, Eureka! It
occured to me that maybe, I could use a 12vdv transformer like the
ones used for answering machines and radios. I tested the theory
with a 6vdv transformer that I had handy and it worked. I went to
Walmart and bought a universal 3-12vdc transformer for $8. For the
ducting I bought some 2in pvc, mounted a 2 to 3in coupler on one end
and mounted the fan inside so that it would blow air up the tower.
I drilled a hole in the side of the blower tube and threaded the
beer lines into the tube. I sealed all air gaps around the fan and
tubing with silicone. I then mounted the assembly inside the draft
tower and connected all of the beer lines and it works like a
champ. My return air duct is the space around the outside of the
blower tube going back down to the freezer. Temperature control is
a Johnson Controls controller that I was using on the previous
model. The tower stays cold, the beer is cold and Adam is a happy
camper. There are a few pictures posted in the photos section. I
meant to take more during the process, but got wrapped up in the job
and forgot.
-Tom
--
http://www.antiochsudsuckers.com/tom/
Brett Hetherington
Take a length of copper pipe that's about twice as long as the tower. get
2 end caps that will fit the pipe and a piece of 1/4 inch soft copper
tubing.
drill 1/4 inch holes in the center of the end caps plus another hole
offset in one of the endcaps. solder the caps to the pipe and then pass
the 1/4 inch tubing through the holes so that about about an inch of
tubing projects out of each end. Solder this in place.
-|====|-
Fill the tube with water through the extra hole and plug it with
silicone.
Use a short length of beer line to connect this contraption to the tap,
then connect the beer line to the bottom end.
The water filled pipe should project down into the kegerator as far as
possible, while projecting up into the tower as close to the tap as
possible.
The idea is that the copper pipe and water will be cooled by the length
that sticks down into the kegerator and act as a heat sink for the
section that sticks up into the tower.
You can vary the length of the tube if you need clearance, but the more
that sticks down into the kegerator, the better the cooling effect will
be, probably. Or not, I donno.
-Brett
Leigh Orf <o...@see.sig.com.invalid> drunkenly bellowed in
news:2p15nuF...@uni-berlin.de:
--
"They who drink beer will think beer."
-Washington Irving
Smhoneydo
Another option is liquid cooling... but that would probably be a bit
expensive and I don't know of anything geared towards the small-time
brewer such as myself. But I am open to any options.
I say;
The way I see it Leigh is to get a small statuary type pump, the kind used on
those fountains in the yard, and use that to pump from a small bucket of water
that you keep in the fridge alongside your cornie keg. Pump into a loop of
tubing that runs up into the tower and back down into the bucket. It's just
like a glycol chiller but you use water. Turn the pump on some time before your
session or else it would run all day, ie noise. Good luck!
Steve
Kerry The Liar Loves Waffles
www.northernbrewer.com forums for more info.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 05:22:16 GMT, Brett Hetherington <sa...@fax.com>
wrote:
Smhoneydo
method will work "IF" you have enough room to work with i.e. air exchange. I
think in addition to all that has been said it would be a good idea to add some
armaflex type insulation to the tubing that is in the tower. Afterwards use the
cooling method you feel is most cost efficient.
Steve
DeSelby
tube-within-a-tube + blower solution. The water pump comes in a close
second. I'll let you know :)
Leigh
G. Harper
the main cooling system? Anyone capable of working in refrigeration
could vacuum out the system, do the brazing of a new small cold wrap
of copper around the neck one turn, and recharge the system. Not sure
how many liability issues this may create or if you may only void a
warrantee, but I missed someone posting this remedy.
I have a friend who would probably do this work for me if I wanted.
I'd have to see if there's a way to get into the area where the hoses
are ran, and if there's room, no problem!
Its all up to the owner.
Take care all,
Greg
On 24 Aug 2004 15:38:38 GMT, Leigh Orf <o...@see.sig.com.invalid>
wrote:
Kerry The Liar Loves Waffles
air reach up there. Chances are if you've created your own kegerator
from a mini fridge, you've voided the warranty already so don't even
bring it up. If you purchased a kegerator system and it's not
performing up to par.. call the reseller. Maybe they didn't use the
correct hole saw when making the hole in the top.