Sour taste in Irish Stout? Help
Roy Lewis
last December I brewed an Irish Stout Kit (MrBeer) and bottled it
after about 3 weeks. Yesterday I had two Bomb's (I blame it on the
weather's low pressure) I have chilled all of them afterward and just
tasted one. These had at least 4 to 6 weeks to cure outside of the
fridge at about 50-70 deg. ( I am in Dallas and the weather has been
fairly good but not for low temp brewing.)
It foamed a little extra as I expected then the foam went flat but the
problem is it has a sour taste. My question is, should this sour
taste disapear after more time?
Roy Lewis
r...@onramp.net
------------------
Roy Lewis http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/
r...@onramp.net
------------------
Brian and Carol Dixon
Sounds like a lactobacillus infection. Lactobacillus both metabolizes
complex sugars and simple starches (which brewer's yeasts won't
touch). That results in additional sugars being made available
to the yeast, more CO2, and a sour taste. If your bottles don't
explode, the sour taste may stabilize, but don't expect it to go
away very much. It comes from lactic acid, and as far as I know
it won't further metabolize into anything else.
If you don't like it, go with it instead of against it. Guinness
adds about 3% soured stout to their stout as a minor flavor
enhancer. You could always take the stout that you have and can
it in some quart jars, adding it at about a 3% rate to future
batches of stout...just like Guinness!
--
Brian
Bierkiester Brewery, Corvallis, Oregon
Roy Lewis
Thank you for the reply. I have always had a problem with this taste
in almost every batch I produce. Sometimes it will go away with age
but in this case it does not seem to. I drank that whole bottle so it
was not drinkable but I would not want to share it with others. I am
not real anxious to drink that dark a beer so I am going to let them
age for another 6 weeks or more and see if they improve. That is if
they are not all bombs.
Again Thank you
Roy Lewis
r...@onramp.net
Stefan D.
next time try using Irish Moss and gypsum to settle all the proteins to the
bottom during primary.
SD
Roy Lewis <r...@onramp.net> wrote in article
<5eqqaq$c...@newsread.onramp.net>...
Mark Lundquist
Stefan D. wrote:
>
> next time try using Irish Moss and gypsum to settle all the proteins to the
> bottom during primary.
Just a dog-gone minute here.
First of all, and most importantly, I don't think "proteins" are the
correct diagnosis for this problem.
Secondly, Irish moss doesn't cause proteins to "settle in the primary".
It improves the coagulation of proteins in the hot break. That in turn
will settle in the primary if it has not been filtered out or the beer
racked from off of it.
Thirdly, gypsum is not a fining agent. Gypsum is used in brewing to
adjust the concentrations of Ca+ and SO4- ions in the brewing water.
Calcium in moderation is beneficial to all phases of the brewing process
from mashing through fermentation through conditioning. It is used to
help lower mash pH. Sulphate contributes to a slightly harsh,
astringent bitterness that is appropriate in some styles of beer --
Burton ales in particular -- and can be good in highly hopped pale ales.
Sorry to be a grump. I'm not trying to come down on anybody, but there
seems to be a lot of misinformation being perpetuated in this group
lately.
All right, on to the problem with the original guy's stout...
> <5eqqaq$c...@newsread.onramp.net>...
> >
> > last December I brewed an Irish Stout Kit (MrBeer) and bottled it
> > after about 3 weeks. Yesterday I had two Bomb's (I blame it on the
> > weather's low pressure) I have chilled all of them afterward and just
> > tasted one. These had at least 4 to 6 weeks to cure outside of the
> > fridge at about 50-70 deg. ( I am in Dallas and the weather has been
> > fairly good but not for low temp brewing.)
> >
> > It foamed a little extra as I expected then the foam went flat but the
> > problem is it has a sour taste. My question is, should this sour
> > taste disapear after more time?
Probably not.
Is it a vinegary sour taste? Or more of a dry, fruity sour taste?
Did you taste the beer when you bottled it? Did it have the sour teste
then, or only after bottle-conditioning?
Exploding bottles, foamy beer, sour taste. Some bacteria have found a
home in your beer. Probably a lactobacillus or acetobacter
contamination. With a "Mr. Beer", it's quite possible that the bad boys
stowed away in your yeast. Dry yeasts are pretty notorious for
impurity, and many a brew has suffered the consequence of importing
other microflora along with the it.
It's also possible that a contamination like this is the result of poor
sanitation.
As you get more of a feel for brewing and what is going on at every
stage, your sanitation techniques will improve. When you switch to
using a high-quality liquid yeast culture with a starter, your risk of
infection via the yeast will go way down.
Brew on, baby!
Mark
Flanagan
Stefan D. wrote:
>
> next time try using Irish Moss and gypsum to settle all the proteins to the
> bottom during primary.
>
> >
> > last December I brewed an Irish Stout Kit (MrBeer) and bottled it
> > after about 3 weeks. Yesterday I had two Bomb's (I blame it on the
> > weather's low pressure) I have chilled all of them afterward and just
> > tasted one. These had at least 4 to 6 weeks to cure outside of the
> > fridge at about 50-70 deg. ( I am in Dallas and the weather has been
> > fairly good but not for low temp brewing.)
> >
> > It foamed a little extra as I expected then the foam went flat but the
> > problem is it has a sour taste. My question is, should this sour
> > taste disapear after more time?
> >
> > r...@onramp.net
> > ------------------
> > Roy Lewis http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/
> > r...@onramp.net
> > ------------------
> >
> >
bottles this would indicate an infection.
My .02
Jim Flanagan
flan...@warwick.net
Roy Lewis
Mark Lundquist <ma...@rational.com> wrote:
>All right, on to the problem with the original guy's stout...
>Is it a vinegary sour taste? Or more of a dry, fruity sour taste?
>Did you taste the beer when you bottled it? Did it have the sour teste
>then, or only after bottle-conditioning?
>It's also possible that a contamination like this is the result of poor
>sanitation.
>As you get more of a feel for brewing and what is going on at every
>stage, your sanitation techniques will improve. When you switch to
>using a high-quality liquid yeast culture with a starter, your risk of
>infection via the yeast will go way down.
>Brew on, baby!
>Mark
Thank everyone for the help! It was a vinegary sour taste and I do
suspect it might be to much left over b-bright or contamination. Most
of my brews had this taste imedately before bottling but went away
with settling.
I did use EDME yeast that was fresh (not what comes with the can)
Good news though I just bottled a new batch of Coopers Bitter using
4lbs of liquid malt and it tasted GOOD.
This time I used b-bright then rinsed good then used Idophor to
sanitize with. I think this one will be good.
Again,
Thanks
Roy Lewis
Stefan D.
Mark,
Point well taken. I will research a little further about correcting soured
Stout brews. Incidentally just after this message (Monday?) some buddies
and I brewed a Stout. Observing strict sanitation and using liquid yeast
we have good signs through the primary fermentation. We did use Irish Moss
and gypsum so I will let you know if that was a good idea or not.
Basically I think Mr. '5eqqaq$cps' might have had some contamination issues
or perhaps even too much sunlight (Dallas is not a temperate place) and as
you sumize, he? may have used dry yeast.
Happy Brewing!
Stefan D.
Stef...@msn.com
udu0...@email.sjsu.edu
On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Brian and Carol Dixon wrote:
> Roy Lewis wrote:
> >
> >
> > It foamed a little extra as I expected then the foam went flat but the
> > problem is it has a sour taste. My question is, should this sour
> > taste disapear after more time?
> >
> > Roy Lewis
> > r...@onramp.net
> > ------------------
> > Roy Lewis http://rampages.onramp.net/~rcl/
> > r...@onramp.net
> > ------------------
>
>
> If you don't like it, go with it instead of against it. Guinness
> adds about 3% soured stout to their stout as a minor flavor
> enhancer. You could always take the stout that you have and can
> it in some quart jars, adding it at about a 3% rate to future
> batches of stout...just like Guinness!
> --
>
> Brian
> Bierkiester Brewery, Corvallis, Oregon
>
>
If you do this, make sure you add it in the boil, which will kill the
souring bacteria. If you just add it to the fermenter, it will sour the
new batch of beer too. Or, you could pasteurize it before canning it
(probably the safest way to go). Just heat it to about 140 F for about 30
minutes.
Mark