betadine as iodophor
Scott
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Lee Moore
enough to sanitize your brew stuff. The question is: Do you use it in the
same proportion as idophor?
Scott wrote in message ...
Pierre Jelenc
> I figure if it's good enough for a surgeon to scrub with, it must be good
> enough to sanitize your brew stuff. The question is: Do you use it in the
> same proportion as idophor?
Betadine *is* an iodophor. Thunderbird *is* a car. Kleenex *is* a tissue.
Pierre
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Scott
wrote:
>Betadine *is* an iodophor. Thunderbird *is* a car. Kleenex *is* a tissue.
_BUT_ the question is, is it food grade?? Since Betadine was not
DESIGNATED for use with food equipment, might it have additional
ingredients which bar its use for brewing? It may even be something as
simply as a soapy additive, which will kill heads and prevent effective
air drying.
Pierre Jelenc
> In article <7b6f4b$9hn$1...@panix2.panix.com>, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)
> wrote:
>
> >Betadine *is* an iodophor. Thunderbird *is* a car. Kleenex *is* a tissue.
>
> _BUT_ the question is, is it food grade?? Since Betadine was not
> DESIGNATED for use with food equipment, might it have additional
> ingredients which bar its use for brewing? It may even be something as
> simply as a soapy additive, which will kill heads and prevent effective
> air drying.
If it is "Betadine-nothing-else", it is a pure solution of Povidone-
iodine in water. No additives. If it is designated "buffered" it has
some sodium bicarbonate added. That's it.
As for being "food-grade", it is USP, which trumps food-grade any time
in my book.
John Heubel
<7b6f4b$9hn$1...@panix2.panix.com>...
> Lee Moore <jol...@nospam.trail.com> writes:
> > I figure if it's good enough for a surgeon to scrub with, it must be
good
> > enough to sanitize your brew stuff. The question is: Do you use it in
the
> > same proportion as idophor?
>
Man, and I thought Thunderbird was a good wine ;o). But what's really
needed is the available free iodine to figure out how much you dilute the
Betadine vs Brand X iodophor. If I read Pierre's thoughts correctly, using
the same dilution should work, but I don't have a bottle of Betadine in
front of me. Pierre?
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Pierre Jelenc
> Man, and I thought Thunderbird was a good wine ;o). But what's really
> needed is the available free iodine to figure out how much you dilute the
> Betadine vs Brand X iodophor. If I read Pierre's thoughts correctly, using
> the same dilution should work, but I don't have a bottle of Betadine in
> front of me. Pierre?
Standard Betadine is about 10% Povidone-iodine, which corresponds to about
1% available iodine.
With Betadine maximum killing activity is achieved at 5 ppm *free* iodine,
which corresponds to 12.5ppm *available* iodine (it's just something that
was determined experimentally; it is different for other iodophors).
Assuming exactly 1%, that means you want 1.25 ml per liter, or 4.5 ml per
US gallon. Round it off to 5 ml or 1 teaspoon per gallon.
25ppm is almost just as efficient and will keep longer while still not
requiring a rinse. All that is needed is to let it drain thoroughly. The
utensils do not need to dry but there must not be any puddle of iodophor
solution at the bottom of your containers.
Scott
wrote:
>Assuming exactly 1%, that means you want 1.25 ml per liter, or 4.5 ml per
>US gallon. Round it off to 5 ml or 1 teaspoon per gallon.
Isn't that a rather higher ratio that, say, BTF?? The latter being (from
what I've seen) 3 tsp. per 5 gallons.
Pierre Jelenc
> In article <7b9hhj$g0j$1...@panix2.panix.com>, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)
> wrote:
>
> >Assuming exactly 1%, that means you want 1.25 ml per liter, or 4.5 ml per
> >US gallon. Round it off to 5 ml or 1 teaspoon per gallon.
>
> Isn't that a rather higher ratio that, say, BTF?? The latter being (from
> what I've seen) 3 tsp. per 5 gallons.
I believe that for BTF the recommended concentration is 50ppm. However
15-25 will work just fine for BTF as well; it'll take maybe a little
longer, but iodophors are typically done in seconds (literally: Betadine
kill 99% of what it will ever kill in 5 seconds; the toughest killable
bugs and spores take no more than 5 minutes, and they are not stuff
encountered in brewing environments.)
John Heubel
<SNIP>
> Standard Betadine is about 10% Povidone-iodine, which corresponds to
about
> 1% available iodine.
>
> With Betadine maximum killing activity is achieved at 5 ppm *free*
iodine,
> which corresponds to 12.5ppm *available* iodine (it's just something that
> was determined experimentally; it is different for other iodophors).
>
> US gallon. Round it off to 5 ml or 1 teaspoon per gallon.
Good info Pierre. What this means, as I see it, is you need to use
slightly more Betadine than "beer-strength" (ie BTF or B.E.S.T.) iodophor
for the 12.5ppm. My info says that 1Tbs (~15 ml) BTF in 5 gal = 12.5ppm
whereas it would require about 25 ml Betadine for a slightly higher
concentration (using Pierre's rounding).
The important point is BETADINE is fine to use as a no rinse sanitizer at
5ml per gallon of H2O.
Dr. Pivo
> The important point is BETADINE is fine to use as a no rinse sanitizer at
> 5ml per gallon of H2O.
The reason that halogens (chlorine, Iodine) are such good sanitizers are
that they are so bloody reactive (just one step from noble, and always
trying to get there).
I don't play with iodophores, but have a hard time imagining that left
overs don't react with SOMETHING in your beer.
anyone know what an iodophenol tastes like?
It might be a good service to ferment a wort side by side in an
iodophore "non-rinsed" and an iodophore "rinsed" carboy, and blind taste
them when finished.
I'd be a bit hesitant in suggesting that folks put some mighty reactive
stuff into their beer, until I was convinced it had NO flavour
contribution whatsoever.
Dr. Pivo
Chris Hendrix
Dr. Pivo wrote:
> Heubs wrote:
>
> > The important point is BETADINE is fine to use as a no rinse sanitizer at
> > 5ml per gallon of H2O.
>
>
> I don't play with iodophores, but have a hard time imagining that left
> overs don't react with SOMETHING in your beer.
>
> anyone know what an iodophenol tastes like?
Iodine sublimates at room temperature, so there ARE no leftovers (or only a
VERY small amount). Considering a good sanitization concentration is 12PPM, if
95% sublimates, there should be no perceptable tastes. And, though I'm not
sure, I believe that iodine is less reactive(electronegative) than hydrogen
(can anyone veryfy this?), so it wouldn't replace hydrogen in organic compounds
like chlorene does.
Pierre Jelenc
> Dr. Pivo wrote:
> > Heubs wrote:
> >
> > > The important point is BETADINE is fine to use as a no rinse sanitizer at
> > > 5ml per gallon of H2O.
> > I don't play with iodophores, but have a hard time imagining that left
> > overs don't react with SOMETHING in your beer.
> > anyone know what an iodophenol tastes like?
> Iodine sublimates at room temperature, so there ARE no leftovers (or only a
> VERY small amount).
True.
> Considering a good sanitization concentration is 12PPM, if
> 95% sublimates, there should be no perceptable tastes. And, though I'm not
> sure, I believe that iodine is less reactive(electronegative) than hydrogen
> (can anyone veryfy this?), so it wouldn't replace hydrogen in organic compounds
> like chlorene does.
Iodine is considerably more electronegative than hydrogen, and it does
react with phenols just like chlorine. Even though it is less reactive
than chlorine, when it comes to the reaction with phenols it is plenty
reactive enough to react essentially to 100%.
Iodophenols have the same odor as chlorophenols, but the important thing
is that the perception threshold for iodophenols is about 100 times that
of chlorophenols (in the 100ppb range rather than 1ppb.) You would need a
good 1/2 pint of leftover iodophor solution to produce enough iodo-
phenols to cause a problem