I don't usually get so perturbed...
Kalera
http://www.askorubeads.com/askorushop/product.php?productid=16965&cat=15&page=1
I'm sorry. I just had to say something. It's not like this is a one-time
thing, or I wouldn't be so sickened by them. Just a glance through their
site reveals that. What's worst, for me, is that I really used to
respect their skills. But what use are technical skills if you have
neither creativity nor ethics? I hate plagiarists.
--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.bridgetownglass.com
On eBay: http://www.snurl.com/1sfe
Kalera
link so the copy of Sharon Peter's new design) all I am getting is 403
Permission Denied. I guess they have some idea that what they're doing
is wrong...
Su
The jester and seahorse are gone.
-Su
LavenderCreek
do have the technicla skills, wonder why they don't just open the mind
a bit and let their own creative muse out.
LOL, "what goes around comes around" how aptly named :D
Teresa
www.lavendercreek.de
Su
but it's the creative genius that is what counts and how that controls
what you do with the glass. Being inspired by art to make your own art
is wonderful but.... well....
I got a laugh out of the name too.
Loribeads
Send me your address, that's what! LOL!
Smooch to you.
Love, Lori
----------------------------------------
http://www.loribeads.com
"Kalera" <kal...@strattonhome.org> wrote in message
news:5Y2dnRgJwdWNvq3Z...@comcast.com...
Kalera
Kalera
--
Bacchae
"Su" wrote in message ...
>I agree entirely, Teresa. There are only so many ways to melt glass
> but it's the creative genius that is what counts and how that controls
> what you do with the glass. Being inspired by art to make your own art
> is wonderful but.... well....
You know, I should know better by now than to open my fat mouth on this
issue but I have been seriously burned by it and I am really hurt by the
broad-strokes painting that goes along with some of the righteous
indignation.
There is no way to get to "creative genius" without some amount of learning
curve. Melting glass isn't something that you can be an idiot savant about.
You have to LEARN. The only way you can LEARN is to observe. I admit that
some designs are very distinctive and it wouldn't be prudent to try to copy
them stringer for stringer but there are some things that you just can't get
away from. It makes me mad as hell when people confuse *designs* with
*techniques*.
I have learned so much from studying techniques and it pisses me right off
when I am afraid to even post images of my work anymore because I may have
used a *technique* that someone sometime in recent memory has used. And it
pisses me off even more when the same people who jump up and down and pander
to all the unrighteously indignant turn around and make goddess beads,
lentils, flowers, seashells, seahorses, hearts, vessels, silver-cores,
fumed, silvered-ivory, electroformed, blown, made and used shards, or
raku/reduction fritted anything.
I don't have a problem if you make something that is popular. I don't care.
What I do care about is having my enjoyment in my hobby of choice curtailed
because it might get me crucified on-line.
For example: I remember being fascinated by Wendy Tobler's dogs. I
couldn't believe that you could sculpt in glass to make figures like that.
I could figure out fish and things like that but to actually make little
dogs! It was so impressive to me. Skip ahead a couple of years.... My
sister has two Yorkshire Terriers. I wanted to make her something out of
glass for Christmas because I couldn't really afford to do much else. I got
to thinking about how it was possible to make glass figurines with my torch
and decided to give it a try. I downloaded a bunch of images of Yorkshire
Terriers off the net that looked like my sister's. I stopped by Wendy
Tobler's site because I wanted to be re-inspired and start putting together
a plan on how I would make the glass head I wanted. I even wrote Wendy
Tobler and asked her if she had a book out, something I would have been
happy to buy. (She doesn't.) Then I went down to my torch and figured out
how to do a glass Yorkshire Terrier head that looked like my sister's dogs
all by myself.
Does this make me a bad person?
There is a school of thought that I think would say that I am bad. That I
had no right to look at anything Wendy Tobler ever made and attempt to do
something similar.
Some may think that since I didn't sell it that I am "okay". Perhaps
because no one is ever going to see it unless they happen to run into my
sister wearing it and <gasp> realize that it isn't a Wendy Tobler original,
that makes it "okay". Perhaps because I don't ever plan on competing with
Wendy Tobler (because I really have no desire to make glass dogs no matter
how much I admire them) makes it "okay".
On another tangent, my mother was a very talented handiworker. She sewed,
knit, crocheted, embroidered, petit-pointed, cross-stitched and so on.
Never EVER did my mother not use a pattern. She would make something
exactly as it had been made before and exactly as a thousand other people
would make it as well, based on the pattern. I never really understood why
she didn't make her own designs but considering she never cooked without a
recipe either, I suppose it just wasn't something she was comfortable with.
I personally don't like to follow patterns (often to my chagrin) but I will
damned well try to figure out techniques and try to LEARN from them. Think
of every single lampworker who has bought Corina's "Passing the Flame" and
all the dots and stripes that have been made based on that book. Is
everyone forbidden forever from ever selling their "learning" beads because
they might actually be similar to someone else's? We'd all be in big
trouble if that's the case.
Not everyone is a creative genius. Some people are just really accomplished
technicians. Hopefully as the technicians learn more about their craft they
will find a way to capture what is beautiful to them in a way that is
uniquely theirs but it could be they'll just continue to make things they
can find a "pattern" for and get really good at that. I can't bring myself
to think this is as wrong as some people seem to think it is. I think we
are starting to get a feel for who the creative geniuses are in the
lampworking community. Celebrate them. Buy their stuff. But also
recognize that some of us just really love glass and lampworking and are
still discovering all the ways to make it beautiful. Part of that discovery
requires learning new techniques and looking at the work of others.
Gateson Recko says it best in an article in "The Flow" magazine:
"...a "student" is anyone who is absorbing more information than they are
expelling. That is to say, more time is dedicated to learning new techniques
and studying other artwork than is spent creating an original body of work.
Perhaps the single best tool for learning is simple observation. We can
learn so much just from looking at other work. If you are in school, you no
doubt have art history courses. These courses can be extremely valuable in
giving the student a broad overview of artistic movements. If you are not in
school, and therefore, are not afforded the luxury of encapsulated
information, then it is up to you to go out and seek knowledge on your own.
I believe, the more you know what has been done, the more you know what has
not been done. Read as much as you can. Go to galleries, museums, and craft
shows. In viewing other art, you will eventually identify with certain
styles and artists helping to refine your own tastes and individual style."
"After assimilating new information, the next step is to attempt to make
what you saw and liked. Just about everyone learns from the age-old
technique of copying what we see, which seems to serve two purposes. It not
only provides knowledge of technique, but also creates confidence. "I can do
that.""
"With the infinite number of possible artistic designs, why do we still see
so much work imitating others? Imitation creates trends, ripples in the
artistic wave of time that become the art history of tomorrow. We are all
part of an endless flow of information. Historically artists were considered
innovators of their time. Throughout time, particular artists stand out for
causing shifts in trends. They took chances by going against the grain and
influenced others to study their designs. If you are like myself, aspiring
to reach the top of my field, then it is imperative to make work that stands
out as your own, different from others and unique to you. No matter where
you are on your path, recognize your past and realize your potential future.
"
(from: http://www.theflowmagazine.com/v1i4.pdf )
I am happy if I can find a home for my work where it is appreciated. I want
my lampwork to be enjoyed and be memorable to the people who own it. I
don't ever expect to be a big name in lampwork because I am really just
making things to please myself and if someone is willing to buy it from me
so that I can afford my next tank of oxygen or a few more rods of glass then
I am happy. To me, making beads is like raising puppies, you love them all
but you really need to find homes for some of them.
- Sandy
Loribeads
This site may help you see everything.
----------------------------------------
http://www.loribeads.com
"Kalera" <kal...@strattonhome.org> wrote in message
news:OMednRkawuC...@comcast.com...
Kalera
don't even think there's anything wrong with copying someone to make a
gift, or making generically "popular, been-done-before" styles for sale.
However, it's unethical to copy someone else's recognizable, unique
designs for profit. The difference is a mile wide.
--
Kalera
Kalera
Su
> "Su" wrote in message ...
>
> >I agree entirely, Teresa. There are only so many ways to melt glass
> > but it's the creative genius that is what counts and how that controls
> > what you do with the glass. Being inspired by art to make your own art
> > is wonderful but.... well....
>
> You know, I should know better by now than to open my fat mouth on this
> issue but I have been seriously burned by it and I am really hurt by the
> broad-strokes painting that goes along with some of the righteous
> indignation.
>
There's a difference between using someone else's art as a guide for
technique and simply copying a piece and then putting it up for sale
and insisting it's not a copy.
-Su
Vicky
Kandice Seeber
beads as well, until I found out they were copying people and admitting to
it proudly. It's sad.
--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net
Vote for my site!
http://tinyurl.com/bbcon
Kandice Seeber
--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net
Vote for my site!
http://tinyurl.com/bbcon
"Loribeads" <lorijp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4NZXf.51263$2O6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Kandice Seeber
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.askorubeads.com/askorushop/home.php?cat=15
Jesus! That's awful!
--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net
Vote for my site!
http://tinyurl.com/bbcon
"Loribeads" <lorijp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4NZXf.51263$2O6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Bacchae
"Kalera" wrote in message ...
>I don't think there's ANYTHING wrong with copying someone to learn. I don't
>even think there's anything wrong with copying someone to make a gift, or
>making generically "popular, been-done-before" styles for sale. However,
>it's unethical to copy someone else's recognizable, unique designs for
>profit. The difference is a mile wide.
Kalera, you and I both know the difference is a mile wide but I was told by
at least one person that they would never buy from me because I openly
admitted that I learned to do certain things or attempted to learn how to do
something by looking at someone else's work and trying to replicate it. I
also admitted that I really admired the work of certain lampworkers so much
so that I copied a design, (including colours I thought were used because
there was a colour reaction involved) in order to learn a technique (didn't
know that dots could make a center band go zig-zag) and to have earrings in
the same colours I thought they'd used. I didn't sell what I made, I made
earrings for myself. In fact, I specifically attempted the technique in a
size that would make earrings for myself. I find earring size a good
testing ground for things that you may eventually want to scale up.
I freely admit when I have been inspired by other people's work. I always
credit my inspirations. If I used something specifically from Smircich, I
say so. If I used something from one of Corina's Spotlights, I say so. I
am not trying to steal designs, I am trying to become a better lampworker.
I think part of becoming a better lampworker is trying to figure out
techniques you admire in other's work.
I am sorry to harp on this topic but I was really really hurt and frustrated
by things people said to me the last time I was stupid enough to get
involved in a thread like this. It still really bugs me. Bigtime. I
didn't even take a picture of the dog I did for my sister because I was
afraid that someone might see it someday and put me through that whole
ordeal again.
You were very kind and generous with your comments last time I was in a
thread like this and again, I thank you.
- Sandy
Kalera
insteructor's directions. That's how we learn. I remember the person who
said they would never buy from you, and you know what? I think they
didn't read through thoroughly enough to understand what you meant when
you said you copy to learn.
Everybody copies to learn! From handwriting to glassworking, that's the
primary means we have of learning technique.
--
Karen Sherwood
insteructor's directions. That's how we learn. I remember the person who
said they would never buy from you, and you know what? I think they
didn't read through thoroughly enough to understand what you meant when
you said you copy to learn.<
What Kalera said!!!! Some customers are NOT worth having!
Hugs, Sandy, you're doing great!
KarenS
Dr. Sooz
don't even think there's anything wrong with copying someone to make a
gift, or making generically "popular, been-done-before" styles for
sale.
However, it's unethical to copy someone else's recognizable, unique
designs for profit. The difference is a mile wide.
I agree. Plus, Wendy Tobler's work is realism. You can't copy her --
she's copying the creator most of the time (not her carousel horses,
obviously). So your conflict and/or protest, Sandy, is specious -- it
doesn't apply here. This is about someone deliberately
stroke-for-stroke copying a particular bead, not a style, not a
technique.
Ethics, to me, can be taught. They are taught. But I just,
personally, see the line. Maybe it's experience in many facets of the
art world over the years. I dunno. I just see the line. Sometime's
it's blurry, but it's there. And I would bet Askorubeads knows where
the line is too, and thought they were just far enough away that they
could boldly cross it and get away with it. You don't have to LIKE the
line......you just have to not cross it. There's lots of stuff I don't
like, but I respect it anyway. Ethics aren't always fun. However,
what you're talking about isn't a good example, because you cited
Tobler's work, and as I said, she works in realism -- and I think that
field is open to everyone.
Dr. Sooz
at least one person that they would never buy from me because I openly
admitted that I learned to do certain things or attempted to learn how
to do
something by looking at someone else's work and trying to replicate it.
That hurts, and it isn't great for business......but you don't need
people like that. Your work is good enough. That person doesn't see
the line, they just have a knee-jerk reaction. They can't think for
themselves -- they parrot what others have said to them without
thinking the grey shadings through. To this sort of person, the world
is black and white.
Any artist in business has this sort of thing happen to them. You have
to learn to let it roll away and forget it -- and learn from it too.
Maybe not be so "out" about learning from others in public situations?
Be a little more circumspect in who you share insider info with?
Unfortunately, it can be a necessity to not be so open these paranoid
days, with people misreading what is, and isn't, ethical.
Dr. Sooz
credit my inspirations. If I used something specifically from
Smircich, I
say so. If I used something from one of Corina's Spotlights, I say so.
I
am not trying to steal designs, I am trying to become a better
lampworker.
I think part of becoming a better lampworker is trying to figure out
techniques you admire in other's work.
You need ME at your side to straighten those fools out! (Kind of like
traveling around with Mr.T)