Lampwork beads and Vermiculite???
Sylvie205
Barry,
You will hear lots and lots of opinions on this. I learned in one of my
classes anything smaller in diameter than a pencil (that's pretty darn
small) is okay just going into vermiculite. Anything else, needs to be
annealed in a kiln (that's pretty much everything I make). Annealing is
holding the temperature at a certain degree level for a specific amount of
time. As far as I know, vermiculite doesn't hold the temp., it only keeps
it from thermal shock by cooling slowly.
I hate to take chances with anything that I've worked as hard and long as
I do on most of my beads, so a kiln was a part of my "necessary" supplies.
To avoid spending that right away, though, you might be able to find
someone in your area willing to rent kiln time for annealing (I do this
for a couple of beadmakers I know).
For expert opinions, you should contact either Mike Frantz or Steve or
Craig at Arrow Springs. They both sell kilns, but I think they'd all be
truthful about what you do and don't need to anneal.
Sylvie
Barry Asman
I'm just getting into lampwork beads (after after taking a class) and
have all the stuff I need except a kiln. In the class we used a
crockpot and vermiculite. It seemed to work ok for the medium to small
beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
Thanks for the help.
Barry
Judy Anderson
Most people who are serious about lampworking would advise you to get a
kiln--especially if you plan to sell your beads to anyone. The popular
theory is that an unannealed bead is a cracked bead waiting to happen. But
hey, if you're still practicing and getting the hang of things, making small
beads, and don't particularly care if they break, you could probably hold
off on the kiln purchase for a bit.
Judy
Nancy Block
In article <3274FA...@pitt.edu> mal...@pitt.edu writes:
>I'm just getting into lampwork beads (after after taking a class) and
>have all the stuff I need except a kiln. In the class we used a
>crockpot and vermiculite. It seemed to work ok for the medium to small
>beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
>
You need a kiln if you are going to sell them; they must
be annealed. Also vermiculite exudes fumes that are not
good for you.
Nancy
Mary Lynn
> It seemed to work ok for the medium to small
>beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
Yes you do. Period. Vermiculite does not anneal beads - and non-annealed
beads are prone (=likely) to become non-annealed glass chards at the most
inconveniant times. Mary
SuzanneHye
I took Kate Fowle's class. I decided a 4 year old boy and a torch were
not compatible, so I'm not pursuing lampworking at this time. One thing I
did decide was that if I ever did decide to make lampworked beads, I would
invest in a kiln. We used vermiculite in class and many of my bigger
beads broke. Why go to the trouble of making something beautiful and then
not going the extra step to make sure it lasts. It's like people who
spend hours making a beautiful amulet bag on dental floss!
Suzanne Hye
Gretchen Stroh
> I'm just getting into lampwork beads (after after taking a class) and
> have all the stuff I need except a kiln. In the class we used a
> crockpot and vermiculite. It seemed to work ok for the medium to small
> beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Barry
I learned in my lampwork class from Kristina Logan that the vermiculite is
okay for smaller beads (around maybe 1/2 diameter) if you flame anneal it
first. This is what I do and haven't had any problems. Also because I use
a hothead torch I really can't make those BIG beads. I had my first
necklace fall apart on a blacktop parking lot, and none of them broke, they
rather bounced. Did you learn about flame annealing? There is a
formula/chart for how long/diameter I have that gives approximate times.
Please note, I have no intention of selling my beads at this time, so in no
way is my decision hurting anyone.
Gretchen
1 Lucky Texan
Barry Asman wrote:
>
> I'm just getting into lampwork beads (after after taking a class) and
> have all the stuff I need except a kiln. In the class we used a
> crockpot and vermiculite. It seemed to work ok for the medium to small
> beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Barry
Hi, Barry,
I am a lampworker and I have used the crock pot set up and the kiln.It
will probably be ok for a while to use the crock pot while you are learning.But there
will soon come a time when you will want a small bead kiln.When you start losing 2 out
of every 3 beads because they are a little to big or are sculptured ones that's when you
make the jump.It is an investment ,a good one will cost 3-4 hundred.ARROW SPRINGS,WALE
APP. and FRANTZ BEADS companies all carry good ones.Hope you already know about these
because they are the best mail-order companies for glass supplies.GOOD LUCK!!!!!
REBECCA DOWNEY
GREAT little BALLS OF FIRE
Kiki NO
Hi everyone -I'm shopping for a kiln now - I've been looking in the
Frantz, Arrow Spring and a few other catalogs. I'm also considering
making my own mailbox kiln. My question:
What kind of controllers and pyrometers have you found ot be good? If
I'm going to be annealing beads, I want to make sure that I can control
the temperature precisely.
Thanks in advance,
Kiki
Gretchen Stroh
In article <3276DB...@flash.net>, 1 Lucky Texan <alck...@flash.net>
wrote:
> Barry Asman wrote:
> >
> > I'm just getting into lampwork beads (after after taking a class) and
> > have all the stuff I need except a kiln. In the class we used a
> > crockpot and vermiculite. It seemed to work ok for the medium to small
> > beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Barry
>
>
> Hi, Barry,
>
> I am a lampworker and I have used the crock pot set up and the kiln.It
> will probably be ok for a while to use the crock pot while you are learning.But there
> will soon come a time when you will want a small bead kiln.When you start losing 2 out
> of every 3 beads because they are a little to big or are sculptured ones that's when you
> make the jump....
>
> REBECCA DOWNEY
>
It's really interesting that people are talking about their beads exploding
and losing alot. I've been flame annealing and have never lost a bead yet
after it's been made. (I just lost one while making it because I let it
cool down to fast by accident while fiddling around with a rod, it was neat
because all of a sudden you hear this weird sound and the bead was
completely shattered, but very pretty, it would be neat if you could get
the finished bead to look shattered but really be stable and together, hope
I don't jinx myself)
Can anyone out there address flame annealing?
Gretchen
Nancy Block
Speaking of Arrow Springs, I'm getting a little annoyed
with them. I ordered a graphite bead mold with little
indentations for the mandrel MONTHS ago -July or August.
It has not come, nor have they bothered to say why.
Last I heard there was an issue of not enough orders
to make building them economical. I haven't had
trouble with my previous transactions, but until this
mold shows up, I'll shop elsewhere where possible.
Anyone else have this experience?
Nancy
Milliron's Arrow Springs
Hello Gretchen,
>
> It's really interesting that people are talking about their beads exploding
> and losing alot. I've been flame annealing and have never lost a bead yet
> after it's been made.
> Can anyone out there address flame annealing?
I can try this one - flame annealing is really a misnomer as you are not
really annealing the bead in the flame. The purpose of flame annealing
is to bring the molten glass to roughly the same temperature top to
bottom, inside to outside. After properly flame annealing if you cool
the bead very, very slowly you will not put any new stress into the
glass. If you put your bead into vermiculite or some other interim
heating chamber and do not anneal your bead in a kiln, you will
absolutely be adding stress to the glass as it is virtually impossible
to cool the bead slow enough. We have conducted experiments where I
made a bead right on a stainless steel thermocouple reading into a
computer and you would be amazed at how fast a bead loses its heat. (If
you want an article on this test, email me and I will send it to you.)
If you flame anneal properly and then place the bead in the annealer as
you finish making it, this is the optimal way to make sure you have a
properly annealed bead.
The very first beads I made were not annealed and even now, after
several years, they are still breaking! Do not assume that if they last
a little while that they are annealed and will not break.
> cool down to fast by accident while fiddling around with a rod, it was neat
> because all of a sudden you hear this weird sound and the bead was
> completely shattered, but very pretty, it would be neat if you could get
> the finished bead to look shattered but really be stable and together, hope
> I don't jinx myself)
You can preserve this look with practice. Crackle glass is made this
way and I have tried it for beads and it works too: get the bead hot
and dip it into cold water and then quickly put the bead back in the
flame to "heal" the surface cracks. It takes practice and be careful -
the bead can explode! And please, anneal it!
Best to You,
Donna Milliron
Arrow Springs www.innercite.com/~flameon/
>
>
> Gretchen
Lori Hultman
In <gstroh1-29...@mac04.mccabe3.swarthmore.edu>
gst...@cc.swarthmore.edu (Gretchen Stroh) writes:
>
>In article <3274FA...@pitt.edu>, Barry Asman <mal...@pitt.edu>
>
>> I'm just getting into lampwork beads (after after taking a class)
and
>> have all the stuff I need except a kiln. In the class we used a
>> crockpot and vermiculite. It seemed to work ok for the medium to
small
>> beads. Is this OK or do I NEED a kiln???
>>
>> Thanks for the help.
>>
>> Barry
>
>
vermiculite is
>okay for smaller beads (around maybe 1/2 diameter) if you flame anneal
it
>first. This is what I do and haven't had any problems. Also because
I use
>a hothead torch I really can't make those BIG beads. I had my first
>necklace fall apart on a blacktop parking lot, and none of them broke,
they
>rather bounced. Did you learn about flame annealing? There is a
>formula/chart for how long/diameter I have that gives approximate
times.
>Please note, I have no intention of selling my beads at this time, so
in no
>way is my decision hurting anyone.
>
>Gretchen
I have been making beads for a couple of years and didn't kiln anneal
my beads for the first year or so. It seems like no one did. I have the
first beadmaking video by Lewis Wilson (Crystal Myths, Albuquerque) and
he just used a tub of vermiculite and never mentioned a kiln. So I did
what he said to do. I started the vermiculite heating on high on my hot
plate before I started to make beads and I kept it on high for at least
1/2 hour after I finished my last bead. That seemed to work pretty
well, even for some of the larger ones and I know it shouldn't have
according to the laws of physics/chemistry/whatever. Anyway, I still
use this procedure when making the beads, but I do put a batch into my
kiln every couple of days. I have a fusing kiln and my mandrels are too
big to comfortably fit when I use my preferred practice of throwing
them into the hot kiln through the open top, so I don't get burned or
electrocuted!
I don't quite understand the concept of 'flame annealing' because it
seems impossible to actually anneal the bead in the flame. Equalize the
temperature maybe, but relieve all the stress, I don't see it
happening. So, I do try to have the bead evenly heated before I put it
into the vermiculite, but I don't do that carbon ash bath.
Having said all that, if you love beading and are going to do it, save
up for a kiln or rent time so you can do it right. Also, vermiculite is
supposed to be not so good for your health.
Happy beadmaking!
William P. Johnson
Dear Nancy...have you talked to Craig or Donna at Arrow Springs? I have not
heard of these kinds of problems before....all that I have heard have been
positive things regarding customer service...Let me know...Thanks
Bill Johnson
Sylvie205
>Having said all that, if you love beading and are going to do it, save
>up for a kiln or rent time so you can do it right. Also, vermiculite is
>supposed to be not so good for your health.
Another stop-gap measure until you can take the plunge and buy a kiln is
to see if anyone in your area is renting kiln time for annealing beads.
Check with the Society of Glass Beadmakers to see who is in your area. In
Atlanta, there are 2 places to rent "kiln" time for annealing and it's not
that expensive (I can say that, since I'm one of those places) and a fix
until you get your kiln. Same thing for studio time...for those who want
to practice their skills after taking a class but before investing in all
the equipment, there are some places out there that rent studio or "torch"
time.
Just a thought.
sylvie
glass beads and jewelry and info on Atlanta area Lampworking classes
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/4205
Nancy Block
I ordered originally from Craig. I called back and talked
to a male helper person (C & D were in Seattle for the
Bead show) some weeks later. I called back about a month
later and talked to Craig.
End result:nothing.
Nancy
>Bill Johnson
>
Gretchen Stroh
> Speaking of Arrow Springs, I'm getting a little annoyed
> with them. I ordered a graphite bead mold with little
> indentations for the mandrel MONTHS ago -July or August.
> It has not come, nor have they bothered to say why.
> Last I heard there was an issue of not enough orders
> to make building them economical. I haven't had
> trouble with my previous transactions, but until this
> mold shows up, I'll shop elsewhere where possible.
>
> Anyone else have this experience?
>
>
> Nancy
Dear Nancy,
I bought my initial setup from them. Waited over a week (I'm on the East
Coast). When I called them they said shipped it, turns out they shipped it
to Texas! :( Finally got it over a week later. (I was a sad puppy, I
ordered my glass from Frantz, and had to sit for a week looking at it until
my other stuff came)
Gretchen
CLynnKggn
Reference bead molds from Arrow Springs - and not getting one.....
Join the crowd! I have yet to see one!