Re: Germany: AMG
Peter Baumann
> I have these Germany AMG stamps. What I need are the present Michel
> catalog values in Euros (or US$) assuming the ids are correct. What
> I've written down to identify each stamp is what was written already
> by someone else. I have an old Michel catalog and figured out what
> some of it means but have quite a few questions about other things.
> Where there is a back-stamp I've put that on a vertical slip of paper
> next to the stamp. The back-stamps are by Dieter Hettler and it is
> generally 2 letters, one upper case and one lower case followed by
> HETTLER BPP, I believe. I didn't write it that way on all of the
> slips of paper because it wasn't clear at first. Sometimes the lower
> case letter is high next to the capital and sometimes low. I don't
> know if that has any significance.
> On one stamp there is a word below Hettler that starts NUSS... and
> goes quite long but is too difficult to read. All unused are mint-no-
> hinge except one indicated (LH).
> Questions:
> Row 1: what does the '2x' mean (if anything)?
> Row 3: Unter UV Schwarz - under UV light something appears black?
> Row 7: Third stamp (30) - I don't understand prc B falsch UV! (I think
> it was written prc or prv - maybe something else)
> Row 7: 4th stamp - I don't quite understand the Pf. VI or for that
> matter any of the PFs followed by roman numerals.
> Row 8: 1st stamp - What looks like PF I / VII - means what?
> Row 8: 2nd stamp - I left the original id as I couldn't transcribe it.
> Means what?
> Row 9: First stamps, same problem, can't decipher it - large-
> something? format.
> Row 9: 3rd stamp has 2 roman numerals. Does that refer to vertical and
> horizontal perfs?
> Row 9: 4th stamp - don't understand the 3rd line but the 4th looks
> like "not in catalog".
> Row 9: 5th stamp - don't understand the notation, again - large-
> something? format.
>
> Many of the stamps had 2 values, one for the type of stamp and one for
> the perforations (I think). Two of the original four notations I left
> have that. Any ideas about it?
>
> http://t6p.home.mindspring.com/amg.jpg
>
> Thank for any help.
>
> t6p vicinity-of mindspring period com
>
> TL
These stamps exist in three printings: American, British and German.
You can find these stamps in a large colour, paper and perforation varities.
PF means "Plattenfehler" plate flaws in english.
for further information, the SG Part 7 Germany 8th Edition, should be of
assistance.
Peter
chrisj...@proemail.co.uk
Your wish is my command: http://cjoint.com/?isnzmOA2HU (7th, 2005,
edition anyway.) Early editions did not have the perf varieties.
Chris
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>So I see that Row 9: 4th stamp is 'line over G' and it isn't in the
>catalog. Probably something caused it other than a plate flaw. One
>done.
Good 'un... Nicht in kat = not in catalog. I'd check for a facial
scrape also.
Some German is not too difficult, some of it horrendous. Another
fellow that used to appear here - Rudy Roy - was into these beasts. I
just sent him a small pile of them, without checking perfs of
course... :^(
I doubt any of mine will be boat cruises, but YMMV!
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>I changed the jpg and reloaded it on the server as the notation for
>'30a Az Unter UV Schwartz!' was in the wrong place. I put it off to
>the side. Now I'm wondering how many others are actually mixed up. My
>desktop german-english dictionary is failing me on every other word.
>Any word starting with ver- seems to be a problem.
>What I'll do is add new information on to the jpeg including
>contemporary CVs and see if the puzzle gets finished.
>That section in my 1993 Michel is 15 pages long and probably contains
>most of the answers. I have yet to see 'UV' in the section or
>translate the other cryptic notations.
>Hoping little by little folks out there can enlighten me.
>http://t6p.home.mindspring.com/amg.jpg
Tom -
Can't read well right now - just had the eyes dilated after an eye
exam. I did pull out my '92 Michel and there's tonnage of references
in there, such as plate flaws - as Peter mentioned. I can't get too
close to it to try to find anything helpful at the moment. My German
stinks, but I've been reading my Michel Austria somewhat.
Clues - 3 different watermarks, 3 different printings as mentioned.
Perf them all.
Check out possible plate flaw section. They read like your examples
do. Plenty of broken letters and all that.
The BPF (?) cert is on some of your stamps. Michel mentions "gelten
nur fur gepruffe (BPP) Stucke!" (no special characters, can't see! :^)
Basically, get them certified. Some have good price tags on them.
Peter Baumann
translated.
The problem with these stamps are fake cancels, so all high priced
examples should be expertised.
Peter
Gerhard Reichert
let me try to help You as a German native speaker :-)
>>>> Questions:
>>>> Row 1: what does the '2x' mean (if anything)?
2x means two times :-) there are four stamps; two of them are Michel #
30 ccolour d (redliliac) perforation B (Line 11 : 11 1/2) paper z (white
paper, slightly toned )
>>>> Row 3: Unter UV Schwarz - under UV light something appears black?
You are right; under ultraviolette light the colour of this stamp
appears black
>>>> Row 7: Third stamp (30) - I don't understand prc B falsch UV! (I think
>>>> it was written prc or prv - maybe something else)
I read it as : prcB falsch UV! Dbz 11:11 1/2 and vertical "Bc Hettler BPF"
I think, that means : "pr" is Pruefung c B falsch UV!
pr probably is an abbreviation for "Pruefung", menas : "examination
Dieter Hettler is a German expert of the German Philatelic society for
AM post; may be it means : examination wrong because of the colour under
ultraviolette light
>>>> Row 7: 4th stamp - I don't quite understand the Pf. VI or for that
>>>> matter any of the PFs followed by roman numerals.
PF is Plate flaw, in German "Plattenfehler", Plateflaw # VI is letter
"U" in "Deutschland", the "U" is short at the left side
>>>> Row 8: 1st stamp - What looks like PF I / VII - means what?
PF I is "AM POST" in fat letters, PF VII is left upper ornament damaged
>>>> Row 8: 2nd stamp - I left the original id as I couldn't transcribe it.
>>>> Means what?
"w.Pkt.oben" means "with dot on top"
>>>> Row 9: First stamps, same problem, can't decipher it - large-
>>>> something? format.
"6/20 Axa " means " 6 Pfennige / Michel # 20 in catalogue, A = line
perforation 11, xa colour dark yellow
"groesseres Format" means "larger format", then: plate flaw XVII = upper
bow of the right six elonged.
>>>> Row 9: 3rd stamp has 2 roman numerals. Does that refer to vertical and
>>>> horizontal perfs?
no, that means two kinds of plate flaws on the stamp, # XII line on
right side next to "NN" in "Pfennig" broken and XXI ( "UT" in
"Deutschland" thicker
>>>> Row 9: 4th stamp - don't understand the 3rd line but the 4th looks
>>>> like "not in catalog".
Plate flaw, not in the michel catalogue mentioned: scratch on the left
"G" in "Pfennig"
>>>> Row 9: 5th stamp - don't understand the notation, again - large-
>>>> something? format.
Yes, larger stamp format
>>>> Many of the stamps had 2 values, one for the type of stamp and one for
>>>> the perforations (I think). Two of the original four notations I left
>>>> have that. Any ideas about it?
As far as I can see, the first number is the Michel catalogue number,
the second one the denomination;
There are three printings: American, British and German. American
printing is number 1 to 9, the British one number 10 to 15, and the
German printing number 16 to 35.
kind regards
Gerhard
Gerhard Reichert
> TL schrieb:
>
>>>>> Many of the stamps had 2 values, one for the type of stamp and one for
>>>>> the perforations (I think). Two of the original four notations I left
>>>>> have that. Any ideas about it?
>
> As far as I can see, the first number is the Michel catalogue number,
> the second one the denomination;
sorry, means "face value". For example : last row, fourth stamp:
Michel number 1, face value 3 Pfennige
>
sorry for my mistake, I understand English but am not very firm in
writing it.
Gerhard
Blair (TC)
> I have these Germany AMG stamps. What I need are the present Michel
> catalog values in Euros (or US$) assuming the ids are correct. What
> I've written down to identify each stamp is what was written already
> by someone else. I have an old Michel catalog and figured out what
> some of it means but have quite a few questions about other things.
> Where there is a back-stamp I've put that on a vertical slip of paper
> next to the stamp. The back-stamps are by Dieter Hettler and it is
> generally 2 letters, one upper case and one lower case followed by
> HETTLER BPP, I believe. I didn't write it that way on all of the
> slips of paper because it wasn't clear at first. Sometimes the lower
> case letter is high next to the capital and sometimes low. I don't
> know if that has any significance.
> On one stamp there is a word below Hettler that starts NUSS... and
> goes quite long but is too difficult to read. All unused are mint-no-
> hinge except one indicated (LH).
> Row 1: what does the '2x' mean (if anything)?
> it was written prc or prv - maybe something else)
> matter any of the PFs followed by roman numerals.
> Means what?
> something? format.
> horizontal perfs?
> like "not in catalog".
> something? format.
>
> the perforations (I think). Two of the original four notations I left
> have that. Any ideas about it?
>
>
> Thank for any help.
>
> t6p vicinity-of mindspring period com
>
> TL
Tom:
I suppose that you already have a copy of the AMG catalogue
by the late Joe V Bush. His son Mike still runs the business.
Joseph V. Bush, Inc.
PO Box 626
Bonita, CA 91908
(FAX: 619-479-0874)
Also recommended.
The A.M.G. Stamps of Germany,
by F. Hugh Vallancey; Herman Herst, Jr., 1958
This is probably the earliest scholarly work on the subject,
and while more recent books may be more complete or
accurate, this one is still valuable and interesting for its
perspective so soon after the end of WW II. It has
extensive data on varieties for the specialist.
Blair
Peter Baumann
> No, I've never heard of them but thank you for the info.
> I scanned 14 pages of Michel at 200% - 300 DPI and made a desktop
> catalog (easy on the eyes). I've photo-shopped in translations of the
> headings using a Germany Philatelic Society Dictionary that I
> accidentally remembered I owned.
> I open up the Michel pages in Preview on a 30-inch screen and can
> browse it just like a huge book, the wave of the future. I may learn
> German this way.
> It is an interesting aspect of stamp collecting that 35 stamps can
> become such a broad field and with relatively low interest can be
> acquired inexpensively (hearsay and assumption).
> Regards,
> Tom
If you are going to specialize these issues, it will rapidly become more
and more expensive.:-) Especialy the (genuine)used ones.
Peter
Stan Fairchild
>
. . .
In the case of
> the plate flaws the value of the stamp was added to the value of the
> pf. to get a total. If these are authentic and correctly attributed
> how do the values jive with present-day Michel?
> Understandably they need to be expertized but I want to get an idea of
> the potential value before I do that. Should they be sent to Germany
> for expertization or are there good reliable services in the US?
>
> Thanks to all,
> TL
Tom--I have a 1995 Michel Spezial in DM and a 2003 (1849-April 1945) Spezial
with values in Euros. Thus the more recent Spezial does not have AMG issues
in it. I just took the MNH and used values for Michel 730-738, 751-759,
764-767, and 768-771 in each edition, added up all of the values in each
edition and then divided the Euro values by the DM values. The results
suggest that the MNH Euro values are about 60% of the DM values, and the
used values are about 45% of the DM ones. To the accuracy you need, I
suggest using 50% as a conversion factor.
For the five years that I've owned the 2003 edition, I've used approx. 0.6 X
Michel to get Scott values. so that would suggest using about 0.3 X Michel
DM to get Scott catalog equivalents.
I recently asked APS's head of expertizing if their German-area expertizers
can and will expertize against Michel. He assures me they can and will, so
that would save sending the AMG material abroad for expertization.
Stan
Peter Baumann
>
> Peter,
> In the case of the 1st stamp on the 7th row (no. 35) which has full
> undisturbed gum, it wouldn't make sense to send it in for
> expertization as it is CTO?
> Tom
Well, 70 to 80 percent of these cancels are fakes - though there might
exist stamps in cto, I doubt that this one is genuine. I have only one
genuine used in my own collection. The catalogue-value in my 2006
edition is 650,- Euros, so if you can find an expert within the APS, it
would make sense. At least you can be shure then.
Peter
Jay T. Carrigan
German cancels. Perhaps if Harold Peter examines your
AMGs they might get some of them right, but APS will
not disclose in advance who will examine your material.
Mercer Bristow once told me that they will tell you
after the fact who examined your material. IMO that's
too late to do any good.
Furthermore, while an APS expertization may give you
some peace of mind, only a BPP expertization will have
any value when you try to sell it.
Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
<www.jaypex.com>
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