Polyvalent Paper - Results
Tracy Barber
Working with 1 set of Belgian RR stamps leads me to these conclusions
pertaining to polyvalent paper:
1) Polyvalent has a gloss to it. Non-polyvalent are duller, do not
shine.
2) Looking at the back of the stamps and holding them to the light - 1
polyvalent, 1 not, same value, same issue: you can see the grain on
the non-polyvalent stamp nd cannot see through the polyvalent stamp.
Thanks to all that have commented.
Tracy Barber
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink
>
>Working with 1 set of Belgian RR stamps leads me to these conclusions
>pertaining to polyvalent paper:
>
>1) Polyvalent has a gloss to it. Non-polyvalent are duller, do not
>shine.
Wrong, polyvalent hardly has a gloss to it. Practically all polyvalent
paper comes from the UK - either from Harrison and Sons with greenish
gum that has lighter speckles or from Coated Paper Ltd / Tullis Russel
that has a more or less colourless gum with a tinge of creamy...
As to the grain, thereis no general rule, alas...
gtx, Rein
>
>2) Looking at the back of the stamps and holding them to the light - 1
>polyvalent, 1 not, same value, same issue: you can see the grain on
>the non-polyvalent stamp nd cannot see through the polyvalent stamp.
>
>Thanks to all that have commented.
>
>Tracy Barber
>.
Tracy Barber
Brink) wrote:
>On 19 Jul 2002 20:44:11 , Tracy Barber wrote:
>>
>>Working with 1 set of Belgian RR stamps leads me to these conclusions
>>pertaining to polyvalent paper:
>>
>>1) Polyvalent has a gloss to it. Non-polyvalent are duller, do not
>>shine.
>
>Wrong, polyvalent hardly has a gloss to it. Practically all polyvalent
>paper comes from the UK - either from Harrison and Sons with greenish
>gum that has lighter speckles or from Coated Paper Ltd / Tullis Russel
>that has a more or less colourless gum with a tinge of creamy...
Rein, there must be some terminology snafu here. I have 2 80 Fr
stamps and 1 is somewhat glossy and the other is ordinary paper.
Unless the Belgian post office issued yet a 3rd kind of stamp, (which
I can't find) then there's a snafu.
Going to your web site with my "limited" Dutch capabilities I found
something about flourescent paper.
So, for Scott # Q403 or Uitgave #SP394, there has to be 3 (4)
different types of stamps:
1) Regular paper with dull gum (dof "dull" papier?)
2) Regular paper with white gum (wit "white" papier?)
3) Flourescent paper (shiny coated)
4) Polyvalent paper (which is neither regular nor shiny)
Scott, of course, doesn't distinguish.
Uitgave tells of 1,2,4 but skips 3.
-OR-, are they stating that dof is uncoated and wit is flourescent?
Then please try to describe what the heck polyvalent is, because all I
get on the internet is some goofy physics answer about something else!
:)
BTW, there is a polyvalent with white gum, but not as prevalent as the
green gum, right?
Tracy Barber
Neil S. Hawk
I know that polyvalent appears to be English, but IF you run it through
Babelfish as a French word..the translation is "general purpose" which may, of
course, mean anything to the Belgian PO...plain old paper to "who knows?"
HTH, :-))
Lien of SNA
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink
polyvalent is indeed 'multi-purpose' which means to the Belgian
Post Office the fact that the same type of paper can be used for
both photogravure and intaglio. Unfortunately the PO had made some
horrible mistakes in saying that certain stamps had been printed on polyvalent
paper whereas the stamps were printed on the old type of paper...
And Belgian collectors are stubborn.... In the OCB Catalogue my name is on top
of the chapter on paper but even I [ :::))] couldn't persuade the Belgians to get
rid of that ridiculous term since for the collector it doesn't add a thing to
the way he has to tell different types of paper... And you found out that yourself.
Up til 1975 practically all Belgian stamps were printed on locally-made paper
in St-Genesius Rode [just outside of Bruxelles] at the Intermills plant. Intermills
went broke, stamp printers dealing with luminescence for automation purposes were
in favour of the UK Harrison and Sons cq Coated Paper Ltd type of paper [see the
Netherlands, Norway, Rep.of SA, all since 1971] so the Belgian Post Office followed
suite.
The Railroad stamp have been printed in intaglio, which means generally that a uncoated
type of paper was used, which shows all the tiny off-branches of the engraved lines.
The Harrison paper [and only that type of paper was involved here, since 1975] has a thin
layer on top of the paper [i.e. coating] that is not shiny nor glossy, though not all
completely matt. The engraved lines usually won't show the tiny off-branches, the lines
are 'straight' and sometimes partially without ink. You should have no problems recognizing
an intaglio printing on Harrison paper, should you have a mint stamp, the greenish gum [with dots]
will leave you no doubt ;()
gtx, Rein
On 20 Jul 2002 01:29:21 , Tracy Barber wrote:
>So, for Scott # Q403 or Uitgave #SP394, there has to be 3 (4)
>different types of stamps:
>
>1) Regular paper with dull gum (dof "dull" papier?)
>2) Regular paper with white gum (wit "white" papier?)
>3) Flourescent paper (shiny coated)
>4) Polyvalent paper (which is neither regular nor shiny)
>
>Scott, of course, doesn't distinguish.
>Uitgave tells of 1,2,4 but skips 3.
>
>-OR-, are they stating that dof is uncoated and wit is flourescent?
>
>Then please try to describe what the heck polyvalent is, because all I
>get on the internet is some goofy physics answer about something else!
>:)
>
>BTW, there is a polyvalent with white gum, but not as prevalent as the
>green gum, right?
>
>Tracy Barber
>
>.
Tracy Barber
Brink) wrote:
>polyvalent is indeed 'multi-purpose' which means to the Belgian
>Post Office the fact that the same type of paper can be used for
>both photogravure and intaglio. Unfortunately the PO had made some
>horrible mistakes in saying that certain stamps had been printed on polyvalent
>paper whereas the stamps were printed on the old type of paper...
>And Belgian collectors are stubborn.... In the OCB Catalogue my name is on top
>of the chapter on paper but even I [ :::))] couldn't persuade the Belgians to get
>rid of that ridiculous term since for the collector it doesn't add a thing to
>the way he has to tell different types of paper... And you found out that yourself.
OK, so then ignore "polyvalent" - generally.
>Up til 1975 practically all Belgian stamps were printed on locally-made paper
>in St-Genesius Rode [just outside of Bruxelles] at the Intermills plant. Intermills
>went broke, stamp printers dealing with luminescence for automation purposes were
>in favour of the UK Harrison and Sons cq Coated Paper Ltd type of paper [see the
>Netherlands, Norway, Rep.of SA, all since 1971] so the Belgian Post Office followed
>suite.
>
>The Railroad stamp have been printed in intaglio, which means generally that a uncoated
>type of paper was used, which shows all the tiny off-branches of the engraved lines.
>The Harrison paper [and only that type of paper was involved here, since 1975] has a thin
>layer on top of the paper [i.e. coating] that is not shiny nor glossy, though not all
>completely matt. The engraved lines usually won't show the tiny off-branches, the lines
>are 'straight' and sometimes partially without ink. You should have no problems recognizing
>an intaglio printing on Harrison paper, should you have a mint stamp, the greenish gum [with dots]
>will leave you no doubt ;()
Since I collect used, for the cancels, this will be a bit difficult -
but I get the picture.
So - there are 2 basic types of paper - coated and uncoated. To me,
when I tip the stamp sideways, at an angle, there is a bit of
"glossiness" to the coated stamp. That's how I told them apart at
first. It's not like photogravure or the slick jam jar labels, but it
has somehwat of a gloss / shine when tipped sideways.
Then, to compound the issues, there are up to 2 types of gum on mint
stamps. Sheesh...
OK - I guess the only way I can do this then is to separate the coated
from uncoated and keep it like that. Organize them along those lines.
Since I can't tell which type of gum was on them, it's a moot point.
Guess this isn't as easy as testing perforations!
This expands the "collectible" area by another several 1000 stamps,
easily. Eeek! OK, I'm up to the challenge. :) I guess I'll have to
find another hoard or 2 (10?) of these sets. :)
Thanks! If there's anything left to clear me up on used stamps, I'd
appreciate it.
Tracy Barber
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink
dear Tracy,
be glad you're not collecting Machins though...
As to your earlier questions:
'dof' means 'dull' but in terms of UV-reaction it means
that it's not active, no response, inert..
'wit' means that to some extent optical brightening agents
have been added to the paper mess and/or coating.
The Harrison papers of the 70-ties [up to the 90-ties] have
a high proportion of OBA's added to them; both to the coating as
to the paper mass. Your 'polyvalent' [those Belgians will never
learn :) ] stamp will show a high luminescence [very whitish]
as long as the stamp hasn't been infected from the paper of the
cover [ even dull stamps can get infected, should the cover has a
high proportion of OBA's in it].
gtx, Rein
On 20 Jul 2002 19:53:52 , Tracy Barber wrote:
>Since I collect used, for the cancels, this will be a bit difficult -
>but I get the picture.
>
>So - there are 2 basic types of paper - coated and uncoated. To me,
>when I tip the stamp sideways, at an angle, there is a bit of
>"glossiness" to the coated stamp. That's how I told them apart at
>first. It's not like photogravure or the slick jam jar labels, but it
>has somehwat of a gloss / shine when tipped sideways.
>
>Then, to compound the issues, there are up to 2 types of gum on mint
>stamps. Sheesh...
>
>OK - I guess the only way I can do this then is to separate the coated
>from uncoated and keep it like that. Organize them along those lines.
>Since I can't tell which type of gum was on them, it's a moot point.
>
>Guess this isn't as easy as testing perforations!
>
>This expands the "collectible" area by another several 1000 stamps,
>easily. Eeek! OK, I'm up to the challenge. :) I guess I'll have to
>find another hoard or 2 (10?) of these sets. :)
>
>Thanks! If there's anything left to clear me up on used stamps, I'd
>appreciate it.
>
>Tracy Barber
>.
Frank Daems
Here's one Belgian, not very happy about the generalisating terms
used, not liking uncorrect information either! I would also much more
prefer to know the real thing, than being confronted with false data.
So I think, the better words are "those Belgians, which are
responsible for the final editing of the OCB catalogue, will never
learn" (i.e. the trade).
Some more Belgian railroad issues I like to get cleared out (sorry
folks if you don't have the Belgian OCB at hand):
- SP167: how come the inverted overprint is mentioned but not actually
catalogued
- SP202/204: also exist without the overprint, but issues SP291/293 do
not?
- how come there's more "white paper" issues in the overprinted
"Ostend station" issue (SP416/422) then in the initial issue
(SP407/415), i.e. the 44 Frank stamp?
And I would very much like the OCB finally starting to mention
existing plate numbers for railroad stamps also ...
One thing that (finally as from the 2002 issue of the catalogue) has
been done is the removal of those cinderalla issues from the list of
railroad stamps, i.e. any railroad stamp issued after the October 1987
issue.
Regards
--
**************************************************
Frank Daems frad...@online.be
http://www.frankdaems.com
APS (USA) #183253 / KVBP (Belgium) #26620
RPSNZ (New Zealand) #1997.127
RPSC (Canada) #I-26631
BSAP (UK) #1617
ATA (USA) #52972-7
**************************************************
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>Here's one Belgian, not very happy about the generalisating terms
>used, not liking uncorrect information either! I would also much more
>prefer to know the real thing, than being confronted with false data.
>So I think, the better words are "those Belgians, which are
>responsible for the final editing of the OCB catalogue, will never
>learn" (i.e. the trade).
There ya go! I believe that's what Rein was "really" saying. :)
>Some more Belgian railroad issues I like to get cleared out (sorry
>folks if you don't have the Belgian OCB at hand):
Tough if they don't! We listen to even more obscure stuff than this
here! :)
>- SP167: how come the inverted overprint is mentioned but not actually
>catalogued
Balasse 1949 doesn't mention it. Scott 2001 has it valued at $57.50
mint. May never have gotten on the "streets"? might be printer's
waste or they caught it before it went out the door?
>- SP202/204: also exist without the overprint, but issues SP291/293 do
>not?
Neither Balasse 1949 nor Scott 2001 mention them. Par for the course.
Looks like a rate change came very shortly before they were printed
and they were overprinted?
I've questioned both sets myself. It would make sense for 1 rate
change to appear like that but 2? The common occurence of these
stamps, from what I've seen, is overprinted. I know you have the
first set on your site without it, correct?
>- how come there's more "white paper" issues in the overprinted
>"Ostend station" issue (SP416/422) then in the initial issue
>(SP407/415), i.e. the 44 Frank stamp?
Looks like the same problem for SP414 - SP415, as well as SP410.
Bizarre... Maybe multiple printers?
>And I would very much like the OCB finally starting to mention
>existing plate numbers for railroad stamps also ...
Ooops... outta my league. :)
>One thing that (finally as from the 2002 issue of the catalogue) has
>been done is the removal of those cinderalla issues from the list of
>railroad stamps, i.e. any railroad stamp issued after the October 1987
>issue.
I have the 1992 issue. Nothing after 1987 either. :) Only joking.
Yes, it's good to know that they dumped them in 2002.
Scott hasn't. In the 2001 catalog, we have Q471 - Q478. They did
miss the "souvenir sheets", though. SOOOO - Scott DOES list some
cindies!!!!!
Did they go to meters or stop charging entirely? I've seen some older
meters on waybills.
Tracy Barber
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink
my apologies to all reasonable Belgians - and I know
quite alot of them especially when we're having
a triple together on the evening of the 11th of July
talking and thinking about the glorious days of old....
You're quite right, it's not nice to generalize but where
was the incorrect information??? I was only trying to help Tracy
finding out about the paper of his RR-stamps. I hope that what I
wrote was of some use to him..
As to stubborness,.. it just happens that collectors tend to believe
what is written in the catalogues whether itis the Dutch NVPH or the
Belgian OCB. And both of them are written by stamp dealers. So the Dutch
collectors don't want to collect the Dutch stamps specialized by paper or
gum since the NVPH think that it's not philately, whereas the 0CB at least
dedicates an enormous of place in their catalogue to paper, without really
knowing what it is about. A was very greatful when they - the OCB - let me
write some explanation about papers, but they wouldn't want to drop the term
'polyvalent' it being some sort of Belgian Holy Cow - oops there's another
apology due....
gtx, Rein
On 21 Jul 2002 08:54:11 , Frank Daems wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Here's one Belgian, not very happy about the generalisating terms
>used, not liking uncorrect information either! I would also much more
>prefer to know the real thing, than being confronted with false data.
>So I think, the better words are "those Belgians, which are
>responsible for the final editing of the OCB catalogue, will never
>learn" (i.e. the trade).
>
>Some more Belgian railroad issues I like to get cleared out (sorry
>folks if you don't have the Belgian OCB at hand):
>- SP167: how come the inverted overprint is mentioned but not actually
>catalogued
>- SP202/204: also exist without the overprint, but issues SP291/293 do
>not?
>- how come there's more "white paper" issues in the overprinted
>"Ostend station" issue (SP416/422) then in the initial issue
>(SP407/415), i.e. the 44 Frank stamp?
>
>And I would very much like the OCB finally starting to mention
>existing plate numbers for railroad stamps also ...
>
>One thing that (finally as from the 2002 issue of the catalogue) has
>been done is the removal of those cinderalla issues from the list of
>railroad stamps, i.e. any railroad stamp issued after the October 1987
>issue.
>
>Regards
>
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink
>Here's one Belgian, not very happy about the generalisating terms
>used, not liking uncorrect information either! I would also much more
>prefer to know the real thing, than being confronted with false data.
>
dear Frank,
my apologies to all reasonable Belgians - and I know
quite alot of them especially when we're having
a triple together on the evening of the 11th of July
talking and thinking about the glorious days of old....
You're quite right, it's not nice to generalize but where
was the incorrect information??? I was only trying to help Tracy
finding out about the paper of his RR-stamps. I hope that what I
wrote was of some use to him..
As to stubborness,.. it just happens that collectors tend to believe
what is written in the catalogues whether it is the Dutch NVPH or the
Belgian OCB. And both of them are written by stamp dealers. So the Dutch
collectors don't want to collect the Dutch stamps specialized by paper or
gum since the NVPH think that it's not philately, whereas the 0CB at least
dedicates an enormous of place in their catalogue to paper, without really
knowing what it is about. I was very greatful when they - the OCB - let me
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink
Frank Daems
4 apologies in a row ... now that's to much too ... your initial
statement really didn't hurt that much, you know.
And as Tracy stated in another posting, I do realise that your
information was merely intended to help him.
Thanks anyway!
Regards
--
**************************************************
Frank Daems frad...@online.be
http://www.frankdaems.com
APS (USA) #183253 / KVBP (Belgium) #26620
RPSNZ (New Zealand) #1997.127
RPSC (Canada) #I-26631
BSAP (UK) #1617
ATA (USA) #52972-7
**************************************************
Rein Bakhuizen van den Brink wrote:
>
Frank Daems
Concerning the inverted SP167, this is what I think (not fact, but my
idea!). Some years ago it was mentioned in the OCB catalogue. Then an
somehow larger quantity of inverted overprints came to the market,
which made people (dealers and catalogue editors) think (and look)
again. The certificates, which they have been issuing prior to - and
during - this "flooding" of the market, might have been issued for
false overprints and to avoid more loss of face, the inverted
overprint has been removed from the catalogue. Again, this is my idea
...
Concerning SP202/204 without overprint, yes, I have 'em and that's why
I'm even more interested in knowing if SP291/293 would also exist
without the overprint.
O yes, concerning change of rate, where you mentioned that it could
have happened twice ... then it must have happened a third time with
the overprinted 44 Frank Ostend station on white paper also (and SP415
is the same case as this one).
As far as current charging by railroad admin is concerned ... I'm not
sure how it's done now. Could be they're using regular stamps now. On
the other hand, the few packages that I have received lately via rail
transport, I have paid for in cash.
Regards
--
**************************************************
Frank Daems frad...@online.be
http://www.frankdaems.com
APS (USA) #183253 / KVBP (Belgium) #26620
RPSNZ (New Zealand) #1997.127
RPSC (Canada) #I-26631
BSAP (UK) #1617
ATA (USA) #52972-7
**************************************************
> wrote:
Tracy Barber
Brink) wrote:
>You're quite right, it's not nice to generalize but where
>was the incorrect information??? I was only trying to help Tracy
>finding out about the paper of his RR-stamps. I hope that what I
>wrote was of some use to him..
Yes it was / is.
>As to stubborness,.. it just happens that collectors tend to believe
>what is written in the catalogues whether itis the Dutch NVPH or the
>Belgian OCB. And both of them are written by stamp dealers. So the Dutch
>collectors don't want to collect the Dutch stamps specialized by paper or
>gum since the NVPH think that it's not philately, whereas the 0CB at least
>dedicates an enormous of place in their catalogue to paper, without really
>knowing what it is about. A was very greatful when they - the OCB - let me
>write some explanation about papers, but they wouldn't want to drop the term
>'polyvalent' it being some sort of Belgian Holy Cow - oops there's another
>apology due....
Polyvalent "sounds" like some type of plasticized shiny thing. Maybe
that's how I register it. Dump the term if it means nothing! :)
Tracy Barber
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>4 apologies in a row ... now that's to much too ... your initial
>statement really didn't hurt that much, you know.
If it did, you're in good shape now! :)
>And as Tracy stated in another posting, I do realise that your
>information was merely intended to help him.
Yup. Sometimes we take liberties and shortcuts in our words. But, I
caught on early and thought nothing of it. (A lot of empathy towards
Belgians because of past nastiness done to them)
Belgians have taken enough poop in the last 100 years. So have the
French. Not to mention most of Europe.
I agree with Rein - OCB should drop polyvalent if it truly means
nothing to the distinguishing of stamps.
Tracy Barber
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>Concerning the inverted SP167, this is what I think (not fact, but my
>idea!). Some years ago it was mentioned in the OCB catalogue. Then an
>somehow larger quantity of inverted overprints came to the market,
>which made people (dealers and catalogue editors) think (and look)
>again. The certificates, which they have been issuing prior to - and
>during - this "flooding" of the market, might have been issued for
>false overprints and to avoid more loss of face, the inverted
>overprint has been removed from the catalogue. Again, this is my idea
>...
That would make sense, especially around that time period. Post-war.
Some of the newspaper stamp overprints were forged. Some semi-postals
were forged - so much so that most of certain stamps are forgeries
rather than Belgian issued.
Henry Gitner is selling this stamp, MNH & MH.
>Concerning SP202/204 without overprint, yes, I have 'em and that's why
>I'm even more interested in knowing if SP291/293 would also exist
>without the overprint.
Dunno, as of now. Check with Henry Gitner. He may have them
somewhere. Just checked and he has some of the ones you have.
Apparently, only 100 sets were issued. (Can't verify that)
He says nothing about SP291/SP293. You may want to ask if he knows
something about them.
>O yes, concerning change of rate, where you mentioned that it could
>have happened twice ... then it must have happened a third time with
>the overprinted 44 Frank Ostend station on white paper also (and SP415
>is the same case as this one).
This could be a change of rate. Without the official rate schedules,
I looked at OCB. After the "Bagages Reisgoed" stamps, there's a small
table with rates. On 1/6/72, 20 grams was now 4,50 - up from 3,50.
The overprinted stamps were released December 15th 1971. (according to
Scott)
Maybe they used up some old paper stock? I know the Austrians were
NOTORIOUS for this in the late 1800s. (That darned schnapps!)
>As far as current charging by railroad admin is concerned ... I'm not
>sure how it's done now. Could be they're using regular stamps now. On
>the other hand, the few packages that I have received lately via rail
>transport, I have paid for in cash.
So, they didn't have any markings on them? Meter, label, anything?
This is another area where it is truly interesting (to me). Looking
at waybills, there can be any combination of parcel post stamp(s),
regular post office stamp(s), meter(s) or chicken scratchings for the
rates / markings.
Finding regular stamps with PP cancels on them aren't rare, but
they're cool when found off piece. I've found 100s so far and haven't
exhausted my stock.
It appears that the railway people used whatever was on hand / handy
to get the job done!
I wonder if there's any government stash somewhere with old waybills
waiting to be auctioned off. Hmmm... :)
Tracy Barber
(Who has become VERY interested in this area!)
Frank Daems
As far as SP167 with inverted overprint is concerned, I already have
it in my collection (with a Balasse certificate, for as much as that's
worth anything).
As to the latest delivery via the ABX service (which is the parcel
delivery service of Belgian railways), I only seem to remember having
received some sort of delivery note. I scanned it and this is where
you can find it (35 KB):
http://users.online.be/fradaems/abx.jpg
It actually is black on white, but I had to play a little with colours
to make it slightly more readable. Not very collectable, I'm afraid
...
Regards
--
**************************************************
Frank Daems frad...@online.be
http://www.frankdaems.com
APS (USA) #183253 / KVBP (Belgium) #26620
RPSNZ (New Zealand) #1997.127
RPSC (Canada) #I-26631
BSAP (UK) #1617
ATA (USA) #52972-7
**************************************************
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>As far as SP167 with inverted overprint is concerned, I already have
>it in my collection (with a Balasse certificate, for as much as that's
>worth anything).
Is Balasse still around? Any way to contact them?
>As to the latest delivery via the ABX service (which is the parcel
>delivery service of Belgian railways), I only seem to remember having
>received some sort of delivery note. I scanned it and this is where
>you can find it (35 KB):
>
>http://users.online.be/fradaems/abx.jpg
>
>It actually is black on white, but I had to play a little with colours
>to make it slightly more readable. Not very collectable, I'm afraid
I'll take a look at it... Yeah, you're right. It's not as
interesting as the Danish waybills of the 70s that looked like cash
register receipts instead of stamps. Thanks for posting it.
I did notice there waybills have been used up to at least 1995.
Tracy Barber
Frank Daems
I know you have an OCB catalogue ... so take a look at some of the
last pages in it. You'll find a list of members of the Belgian Chamber
of Stamp Dealers. The second entry in the Province of "Brabant" is
Balasse.
For those interested also and not having the OCB, here's the contact
info:
address:
Balasse Ets.
Rue du Midi 43a-45a
1000 Bruxelles
telephone: 0032.2.513.29.52
fax: 0032.2.513.50.61
I'm not aware if they have a website ...
Regards
--
**************************************************
Frank Daems frad...@online.be
http://www.frankdaems.com
APS (USA) #183253 / KVBP (Belgium) #26620
RPSNZ (New Zealand) #1997.127
RPSC (Canada) #I-26631
BSAP (UK) #1617
ATA (USA) #52972-7
**************************************************
Tracy Barber
Blair Stannard
wrote:
>One thing that (finally as from the 2002 issue of the catalogue) has
>been done is the removal of those cinderalla issues from the list of
>railroad stamps, i.e. any railroad stamp issued after the October 1987
>issue.
>
>Regards
Frank:
Could you please explain why the RR stamps after 1987
are cinderellas?
Was the service discontinued then? or
was the fee prepaid in cash (no stamps required) or
were regular stamps used instead?
Any assiste=ance would be greatly appreciated.
Blair
Blair Stannard
wrote:
>Hi again,
>
>I know you have an OCB catalogue ... so take a look at some of the
>last pages in it. You'll find a list of members of the Belgian Chamber
>of Stamp Dealers. The second entry in the Province of "Brabant" is
>Balasse.
>
>For those interested also and not having the OCB, here's the contact
>info:
>
>address:
>Balasse Ets.
>Rue du Midi 43a-45a
>1000 Bruxelles
>telephone: 0032.2.513.29.52
>fax: 0032.2.513.50.61
>
>I'm not aware if they have a website ...
>
>Regards
Frank:
Did one of the streets in Brussels
get re-named?
I have Balesse at:
BALASSE Ets.,
rue du Midi 43a-45a,
1000 Bruxelles -
Tel. (02) 51329 52 -
Fax (02) 51350 61
However I have found other web sites
with the address:
BALASSE WILLY Ets.
Zuidstraat 43a-45a,
1000 Brussel
Tel.: (0)2 513 29 52,
Fax: (0)2 513 50 61.
Do Brussels streets have double names
(ie in French and Flemish) ?
Blair
Tracy Barber
wrote:
As mentioned in another post, I have seen RR stamps on waybills at
least until 1995. These were the 1987 set.
NMBS keeps issuing these stamps but they don't see waybill duty, from
what I understand.
Tracy Barber
David French
> French. Not to mention most of Europe.
>
I love Belgians for one main reason - their FOOD is superb!!
> I agree with Rein - OCB should drop polyvalent if it truly means
> nothing to the distinguishing of stamps.
>
- Not to mention the amount of bandwidth taken up
discussing it over the last month!!
-David.
Tracy Barber
David, David, David! Please bring up a topic, young man... :)
Tracy Barber
Pierre Courtiade
> Did one of the streets in Brussels
> get re-named?
>
> I have Balesse at:
> BALASSE Ets.,
> rue du Midi 43a-45a,
> ......
> However I have found other web sites
> with the address:
> BALASSE WILLY Ets.
> Zuidstraat 43a-45a,
> Do Brussels streets have double names
> (ie in French and Flemish) ?
Hi Blair,
Yes they do, as Bruxelles/Brussels is a bilingual city
Midi (means South in French, equivalent to Sud) translates to Zuid in
Flemish.
And rue (street) translates to straat.
Or calle in Spain and in SNA ;-)))
HTH
--
Best regards,
Pierre Courtiade
pcou...@club-internet.fr
Eddy Sterckx
> Do Brussels streets have double names
> (ie in French and Flemish) ?
Yes, but it's French and Dutch.
"Zuidstraat" and "Brussel" : Dutch
"Rue du Midi" and "Bruxelles" : French
Beware : a lot of streetnames can't be "translated" as easily as this one.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Frank Daems
Railway stamps, issued from the late 1990'ties were solely intended
for philatelic sales to improve profit of the Belgian Railways
Company. Referring to the stubbornness of (Belgian) collectors, as
Rein wrote in another email, I'm pretty sure that lots of Belgian
collectors bought these stamps, because they previously were mentioned
in the catalogue, so they needed them for their collection to be
complete. I'm one of these (though I'm still missing the 1999 Uniforms
set, but am not really looking for it now, and have stopped collecting
new issues since January 1st, 2000). I'm pretty sure also, that
collectors using others catalogues will continue to buy/exchange these
'stamps' for as long as they are still mentioned as such in those
catalogues.
They have never been officially used (and if you ever find them
officially used, then keep 'em ... but don't ask me what they might be
worth). A local stamps magazine once mentioned, that talks were going
on to give these stamps some kind of official purpose of use. One
suggestion which was made back then was to use them on the trains, if
a traveller was unable to show a valid ticket for the trip and was
charged for that. The whole idea was abandoned so they became
cinderellas.
As I wrote in a previous posting, as a reply to Tracy's question, they
now just send an invoice/delivery note (or whatever name one gives to
such document). An example of such document can be found at
http://users.online.be/fradaems/abx.jpg
Regards
--
**************************************************
Frank Daems frad...@online.be
http://www.frankdaems.com
APS (USA) #183253 / KVBP (Belgium) #26620
RPSNZ (New Zealand) #1997.127
RPSC (Canada) #I-26631
BSAP (UK) #1617
ATA (USA) #52972-7
**************************************************
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>Railway stamps, issued from the late 1990'ties were solely intended
>for philatelic sales to improve profit of the Belgian Railways
>Company. Referring to the stubbornness of (Belgian) collectors, as
>Rein wrote in another email, I'm pretty sure that lots of Belgian
>collectors bought these stamps, because they previously were mentioned
>in the catalogue, so they needed them for their collection to be
>complete. I'm one of these (though I'm still missing the 1999 Uniforms
>set, but am not really looking for it now, and have stopped collecting
>new issues since January 1st, 2000). I'm pretty sure also, that
>collectors using others catalogues will continue to buy/exchange these
>'stamps' for as long as they are still mentioned as such in those
>catalogues.
To add further, I understand it that these were printed in limited
quantities as well.
Tracy Barber
Blair Stannard
wrote:
>Hi Blair,
>
>Railway stamps, issued from the late 1990'ties were solely intended
>for philatelic sales to improve profit of the Belgian Railways
>Company.
(snip)
>
>They have never been officially used (and if you ever find them
>officially used, then keep 'em ... but don't ask me what they might be
>worth).
(snip)
>As I wrote in a previous posting, as a reply to Tracy's question, they
>now just send an invoice/delivery note (or whatever name one gives to
>such document). An example of such document can be found at
>http://users.online.be/fradaems/abx.jpg
>
>Regards
Thanks very much Frank:
I wonder if you brought a parcel into the Railroad Company
prepaid with the stamps , if they woud be forced to accept
them as pre-payment of the Parcel fees.
Blair
Blair Stannard
Barber) wrote:
>To add further, I understand it that these were printed in limited
>quantities as well.
>
>Tracy Barber
With no real purpose, can you wonder why?
Blair
Blair Stannard
Merci Pierre:
I suspected same. I was reading Midi as named
after a French region and not to mean South
(for which I would use Sud or australe). But,
as we all know, French has several words for only
one in English , French being a much more precise
language.
Blair
Ottawa (same word in the English, French, Flemish
and Algonkian languages)
Blair Stannard
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:18:22 GMT, tr...@adirondack-pc.com (Tracy
Not if they're marketed like the illegals. There's pretty big print
runs of those beasties, or so it seems.
I'm just curious why Scott still shows them after 1987. Q471 - Q478
are right in there.
On the same note, they forgot to display watermarks for DDR. spent a
few mintues last night trying to find them in the 2001 catalog.
They're in the 2000, but they skipped right over them in 2001.
Maybe Scott needs a housecleaning? Instead of professing new market
values, why not clean up the home ground?
Tracy Barber
(Getting carried away yet once again!)
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:46:23 +0200, Frank Daems <frad...@online.be>
If that was the case, then they'd be able to use regular Belgian
stamps as well as parcel post stamps on parcels. Mixed franking was a
commonly seen process.
ABX has been delivering parcels in recent years and is a bigger item
than SNCB / NMBS. They've gone the corporate route and this includes
several countries - not only Belgium.
It is a good question to ask when I get them on the phone - one of
these days. :)
Tracy Barber
David French
That's my Name, but don't wear it out!
>Please bring up a topic,
Let me think about it for a day or two.....
>young man... :)
Awww - you're just saying that, but I like it!
-David, in a better mood already.
Eric K. Bustad
>
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:06:24 -0400, Blair Stannard <T...@litterbox.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:18:22 GMT, tr...@adirondack-pc.com (Tracy
> >Barber) wrote:
> >
> >>To add further, I understand it that these were printed in limited
> >>quantities as well.
> >>
> >>Tracy Barber
> >
> >With no real purpose, can you wonder why?
>
> Not if they're marketed like the illegals. There's pretty big print
> runs of those beasties, or so it seems.
>
> I'm just curious why Scott still shows them after 1987. Q471 - Q478
> are right in there.
Interesting. In my 1997 edition of Scott, the listing stops with Q470.
= Eric
Blair Stannard
Barber) wrote:
>
>
>If that was the case, then they'd be able to use regular Belgian
>stamps as well as parcel post stamps on parcels. Mixed franking was a
>commonly seen process.
>
>ABX has been delivering parcels in recent years and is a bigger item
>than SNCB / NMBS. They've gone the corporate route and this includes
>several countries - not only Belgium.
>
>It is a good question to ask when I get them on the phone - one of
>these days. :)
>
>Tracy Barber
Tracy:
Could you please let us know what they say when you speak to them?
Thanks
Blair
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:38:32 GMT, tr...@adirondack-pc.com (Tracy
Yes indeedy. I plan on talking to them about their history. I know
they have museums and so forth. I'll ask that specific question.
Tracy Barber
Blair Stannard
Barber) wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:35:16 -0400, Blair Stannard <T...@litterbox.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:38:32 GMT, tr...@adirondack-pc.com (Tracy
>>Barber) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If that was the case, then they'd be able to use regular Belgian
>>>stamps as well as parcel post stamps on parcels. Mixed franking was a
>>>commonly seen process.
>>>
>>>ABX has been delivering parcels in recent years and is a bigger item
>>>than SNCB / NMBS. They've gone the corporate route and this includes
>>>several countries - not only Belgium.
>>>
>>>It is a good question to ask when I get them on the phone - one of
>>>these days. :)
>>>
>>>Tracy Barber
>>
>>Tracy:
>>
>>Could you please let us know what they say when you speak to them?
>
>Yes indeedy. I plan on talking to them about their history. I know
>they have museums and so forth. I'll ask that specific question.
>
>Tracy Barber
They also have a philatelic bureau.
B