Re: Local Dealer Low Balled me on a PR70 slabbed Ike
oly
> Went to a local B&M. One that I have dealt with before for both buying and
> selling. Big store, nice people, always polite, great selection of quality
> stuff. This thread isn't meant to bash him, I just found our conversation
> (and his ignorance) kinda funny, so I thought I'd share.
>
> I walk in, the manager recognizes me and says hello. I say hi and ask him if
> he has gotten in any new coins of the type I usually ask him about. He says
> no, so we chit-chat a little. I've never bought any modern stuff from him
> but he has a section of it in his displays. I asked if he would be
> interested in buying a PCGS slabbed Top Pop Ike. He says sure, let's see it.
> I pull it out of my jacket pocket and gently unwrap it from the soft cloth
> it is wrapped in. As I do so, another employee takes notice and peeks over
> his shoulder. I place the PCGS 1976-S Ike PR70DCAM coin on the glass and
> turn it toward him. He pics it up, looks closely at both sides, admiring the
> perfection. His employee says quietly "Wow, that is a beautiful coin." I
> reply that it is a pop 16 coin and a great type set coin, to which he
> agrees.
>
> At this point, I am thinking that the dealer is admiring the coin, looking
> for a single flaw beyond the plastic, and thinking to himself what a great
> coin just walked into his shop. He sets the coin down and asks what I want
> for it. I tell him that I am willing to take a fair cash offer well under
> PCGS price guide value. He turns around and picks up a piece of paper from
> the desk behind him, its the grey sheet. Having never used the grey sheet
> for reference before, I think to myself, does the grey sheet really have
> pricing for a PR70DCAM PCGS Ike?
>
> He scans the sheet and finds the coin. He calmy says, "I'll give you $1475
> for it."
>
> I say "I can't take that, that's not even close to the number I had in
> mind."
>
> He turns the grey sheet to me and says "That's all I can pay, that is
> greysheet buy price on a 76 proof Ike. I have to make a few bucks on it."
>
> I look on the sheet to where his finger is pointing. I am absolutely
> dumbfounded. I honestly can't believe what I am seeing. The sheet where he's
> pointing says "$14.75", not $1475. This guy is offering me $14.75 for my
> $6000 coin, not $1475!!! I am so shocked, I don't even know what to say.
> Thanks to past dealings with him and his shop, I know he knows I'm no rube,
> so he must really believe this Top Pop PCGS Ike is only worth $14.75. WOW!!
>
> I understand that the dealer can buy whatever he wants for whatever price he
> wants and sell it for whatever he thinks he can get out of it. I also
> understand that most dealers don't want a lot of modern coins, nor do many
> care to deal with them much. But isn't the point of the hobby to be as
> educated as you can about all facets of the hobby? What if I walked in with
> this coin and would have taken $2000 for it? The dealer could have sent this
> coin off to any major auction and put a couple thousand dollars in his
> pocket on the deal. It just doesn't make any sense to me to not be educated
> on anything in your business that could be potentially worth thousands of
> dollars in profit to you.
>
> As I attempt to get over my shock of his ignorance, I calmly explain that
> this coin is priced at $6000 in the PCGS price guide and they usually sell
> at auction between $4500 and $6500. Without missing a beat, he tells me the
> coin would just sit in his display and never sell if he priced it anything
> over $25.00. Then he proceeded to proudly tell me that he just took a bath
> on a PCGS Top Pop coin last week that was in the price guide for $12,000. He
> ended up selling it for $800 because "the market isn't that strong on top
> pop PCGS stuff right now".
>
> Wow is all I can say.....just wow!
>
> Greg
You have mental issues. $15 is a great offer on an Ike Dollar.
oly
Frank Provasek
have huge prices for very common modern non-circulating coins that
almost always come perfect, or close enough to perfect that a $20 coin
and a $2000 coin are indistinguishable to them or their customer
base.
oly
I'd agree with the gist of your comment, except that no Ike is worth
$2000 or anything close to that.
The best answer for the local dealer would be something to the effect
"You didn't buy that here, and we have no interest in it".
I doubt that the local dealer was intentionally "low-balling" the OP.
Very few Ikes can command a $20 bill, even the 40% silvers. The OP
was scammed when he bought it, somewhere else than the local coin
shop.
oly
Frank Provasek
The PCGS price guide indeed lists Ike dollars as high as $15,000 in
proof 70.
But the value is in the rarely-given label. These are thinly traded
by people
who can afford to pay for "best of the best."
http://www.pcgs.com/prices/PriceGuideDetail.aspx?MS=1&PR=1&SP=1&c=31&title=Ike+Dollar
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
The so-called value is a pure fiction.
Hopefully the OP has enough money left to buy a jacket.
oly
Reid Goldsborough
> I'd agree with the gist of your comment, except that no Ike is worth
> $2000 or anything close to that.
This just shows ignorance of numismatics and markets in general. What
any item is worth is what the market says it's worth, not what oly
thinks it's worth. A market is two or more buyers. I suspect the market
for high-end Ikes is slightly larger than this. If 100 people around the
world are paying thousands for the highest quality Ikes, that's what
they're worth. As said, this is the same with any collectable as well as
any good or service in any free market anywhere.
Your saying that the buyer of this item was ripped off is ripping off
anyone here wanting good, truthful information, not to mention being
characteristically nasty toward other posters, in this case someone who
posted an interesting anecdote about a numismatic experience of his.
This discourages others from doing the same, which is a key reason this
discussion group has the fewest members and the fewest posts it has ever
had.
--
Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos
oly
wrote:
A really nice UK Charles II Five Guineas could be a $15,000 coin.
Extremely historic, scarce to rare, and fine gold.
There were millions upon millions of 1976 Eisenhowers minted just a
few years back, almost all of which are copper-nickel clads in very
close to the original condition in which they were struck. Not
historic, not scarce or rare, and pitiful base metal. Very few of
these are worth even $15.
I know that you're not smart enough to be a con man, Reamo Gay
Queerborough. So you must be a fookin' moron.
The vast majority of knowledgeable coin people (and most of the lesser
hobbyists too) wouldn't look twice at such a numismatic travesty as
the OP claims to own.
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I had a slight brain fart there. I meant to use the number "1500" as
in a troy ounce of gold is roughly $1500 and thus a silly slabbed
$6000 Eisenhower dollar equals four troy ounces of gold. And there is
no way any Eisenhower Dollar is worth four troy ounces of gold, NO
WAY.
Paint the tape, phoney up some "transactions" for the unwary marks,
put out some bogus "press releases" and non-binding, non-committal
commercial "price guides" - but NO Eisenhower dollar is worth $6000 to
somebody whose brain is in normal working order.
I'm not sure how the Charles II Five guineas slipped in there,
although it is maybe the highest and best numismatic coin that I could
reasonably aspire to (and $15000 could get you a nice one - but
nowadays, probably not the very best).
Take one of those 5 Guineas into your experienced local coin dealer
and you'd be surprised how many people actually could appreciate that.
oly
Reid Goldsborough
> There were millions upon millions of 1976 Eisenhowers minted just a
> few years back, almost all of which are copper-nickel clads in very
> close to the original condition in which they were struck. Not
> historic, not scarce or rare, and pitiful base metal. Very few of
> these are worth even $15.
You're still acting like a Soviet commissar from c. 1970. You don't get
to decide market prices. The market does. For better or worse -- worse
apparently in your mind -- the market has deemed PCGS the best arbiter
of U.S. coin quality and that even recent and common coins that are
given grades by PCGS indicating the best possible quality are regarded
as extremely desirable by some people, hence worth as in this case
prices in the four-figure range.
For some reason this makes you angry (as does much else), and you
criticize people who feel this way, such as the original poster, as
getting ripped off. If he sells this particular PCGS 1976-S Ike PR70
DCAM in the future through a large auction house and realizes a 10
percent profit after seller's fee, has that buyer been ripped off too?
What if that person in turn sells the same coin a few years down the
line for a small profit himself? It appears that the next buyer
according to oly economics has been ripped off too.
You appear upset that coins you don't value are valued highly by others,
which in turn appears to be classic sour grapes. What's your most
valuable coin in terms of market value? I'm guessing from your behavior
here that you like the cheapie coins, perhaps only being able to afford
these. Note that there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. Any coin
can have interest. But -- my point -- there's nothing wrong either with
other collectors placing a high value on other coins and enjoying adding
these coins to their collections.
It's always curious to see as in this case one collector trying to foist
his views of desirability on others and to badmouth and put down others
who don't see things the same way he does. Just another curious aspect
of this curious hobby.
Jerry Dennis
There's a bit of a problem here. Greg doesn't say whether his is a
Type I, Type II, or Silver. NumisMedia's price guide says a 1976-S
Silver PR70DCAM Ike is worth $5,410; the only PR70DCAM coin they
list.. Drop that 70 to a 69 and it's worth $40. The PR69DCAM clad
Type Is and Type IIs are also worth roughly $40. More information is
needed before I'd comment further, other than perhaps to offer it up
on ebay.
Jerry
oly
wrote:
You don't have to go through all your mental gyrations and self-
fellatio.
No Eisenhower dollar is worth $6,000.
Period.
End of story.
oly
gogu
news:4pdns7....@news.alt.net...
Reid, please do not feed the racist TROLL!
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
oly
> ? "Reid Goldsborough" <reidgolduse...@yahoo.com> ?????? ??? ??????news:4pdns7....@news.alt.net...
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'd been wondering about the Roumanians [Bulgarians] illegally
residing in Greece.
Things ain't gonna work out for you poor folks; the real Greeks are
too pissed now (and they have every right to feel that way).
Maybe you should bury your coins somewhere before they come for you.
oly
gogu
news:09a350de-ba3a-44b0...@m24g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 18, 4:34 am, "gogu" <Ruminii...@Pula.com> wrote:
> ? "Reid Goldsborough" <reidgolduse...@yahoo.com> ?????? ???
> ??????news:4pdns7....@news.alt.net...
>
> > On 6/17/2011 3:09 PM, oly wrote:
>> Reid, please do not feed the racist TROLL!
>I'd been wondering about the Roumanians [Bulgarians] illegally
>residing in Greece.
>Things ain't gonna work out for you poor folks; the real Greeks are
>too pissed now (and they have every right to feel that way).
Dear racist!
I don't know how stupid you are to believe that perpetuating a lie will make
it true!
Not that it matters or changes something but I'm not a Romanian or a
Bulgarian, not even a...Martian!
OTOH I wonder if you know your roots or who your father was;-)...
Back to the oblivion now, I really pity you and your (mental) handicap.
Reid Goldsborough
> Reid, please do not feed the racist TROLL!
If he's that, it would not at all be surprising given his other
I-hate-the-world behavior, though I don't follow everything here and
haven't seen it. I was responding to his attempts at ridiculing another
collector for collecting material he doesn't collect, which is about an
inane a numismatic activity as I can imagine. What others collect, what
they find interesting, how much they should value it and what they
should be willing to pay for it isn't something for anyone else to
decide, let alone the angry and hateful olys of the world.
--
oly
wrote:
I'm a racist because I've figured out that Gogu isn't Greek at all,
that he isn't in Greece legally, and all those folks in Greece and the
Balkan countries have dozens of "races" that nobody who isn't born
there can properly identify.
Come to think of it, the "races" in those countries are even more
imperceptible than the difference between "MS 69" and "MS 70".
And not to let it go, Reamo, you're still a total fraud. Nobody
should trust your numismatic pronunciations and judgements in any way,
shape or form. For your part, you're a "Type 4" inDUHvidual.
oly
gogu
> On 6/18/2011 5:34 AM, gogu wrote:
>> Reid, please do not feed the racist TROLL!
> If he's that, it would not at all be surprising given his other
> I-hate-the-world behavior, though I don't follow everything here and
> haven't seen it. I was responding to his attempts at ridiculing another
> collector for collecting material he doesn't collect,
Have you ever managed to convince a lunatic, fanatic, extremist or racist
that he is wrong?;-)))
Talking to such "specimens" is just a waste of time...
> which is about an inane a numismatic activity as I can imagine. What
> others collect, what they find interesting, how much they should value it
> and what they should be willing to pay for it isn't something for anyone
> else to decide, let alone the angry and hateful olys of the world.
Market price is the price someone is willing to pay for a given object, no
matter what the olys of this world think or say...
It's not the price one asks or evaluates one of his assets, it's the price
that a deal is struck.
In my business (I'm an architect engineer and a developer) it doesn't matter
what price you ask for an apartment, important is at what price you *sell*
that apartment, that's the market price!
Many of my colleagues here are asking ante-crisis prices and even when they
don't get them they say "I have for sale an apartment that has a value of X
euros". But nobody buys it...
When they will manage to sell an apartment, then they can talk about market
price.
The rest is just flame, which is obviously the only thing this oly character
is interested in...
Sad little man (?) he is...
A nice weekend to everybody!
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
> Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
oly
> ? "Reid Goldsborough" <reidgolduse...@yahoo.com> ?????? ??? ??????news:4pf0cv....@news.alt.net...
Oooh, Greek real estate!!! Slightly (very slightly) more valuable
than Greek Government bonds.
You should have kept your sovereigns.
oly
Steve Spradlin
Greysheet posts the highest known bids. The underbids can range from
$0 to one cent under the high bid.
oly
No hobby is any fun anymore when you get massively ripped-off.
No Ike dollar is worth $6000. None. Zip, Nada, Zero, Zilch, rien.
Say that over and over and you should be O.K.
An MS "69" Ike in a slab @ $40, even that's a lot (but survivable).
If you'd pay $6,000 for a "70", you might as well carve your eyeballs
out with a penknife - you need to be in psych rehab.
You're that stupid (like Reamo, Prince of the corroded zincents).
oly
oly
I'll apologize in advance - I'm not calling Mr. Spradlin stupid, and
didn't intend to do so.
Remao Gay el Stupido et retardo, Coin Fairy, is whom I'm calling out.
oly
pinkba...@yahoo.com
Oly is GAY too!!
pinkba...@yahoo.com
Bremick and Oly are gay lovers so leave them alone and let them have
sex together
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not gay, although I've often thought I'd like to be a lesbian.
oly
barth...@yahoo.com
so you are a woman? you have a vagina? oh...sorry I said the things I
did then. I thought you had a peepee! Anyway since you are DICKLESS do
NOT worth because I pack a 12 incher and can spare half of it if you
need it!!! :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bremick
<pinkba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7d70fbb5-7a55-405f...@m18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
4 degrees. My my. Did any involve English composition or debate tactics?
Have they expired?
som...@some.domain
>On Jun 20, 3:35=A0pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 20, 2:16=A0pm, "pinkbankno...@yahoo.com"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <pinkbankno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > On Jun 20, 11:10=A0am, "pinkbankno...@yahoo.com"
>>
>> > <pinkbankno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > On Jun 19, 1:29=A0am, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Jun 19, 12:18=A0am, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > On Jun 19, 12:03=A0am, Steve Spradlin <coinguy1...@yahoo.com> wro=
>te:
>>
>> > > > > > There is no obligation to pay any particular price on a coin. =
>=A0The
>> > > > > > Greysheet posts the highest known bids. =A0The underbids can ra=
>nge from
>> > > > > > $0 to one cent under the high bid.
>>
>> > > > > No hobby is any fun anymore when you get massively ripped-off.
>>
> rien.
>> > > > > Say that over and over and you should be O.K.
>>
>).
>> > > > > If you'd pay $6,000 for a "70", you might as well carve your eyeb=
>alls
>> > > > > out with a penknife - you need to be in psych rehab.
>>
>> > > > > You're that stupid (like Reamo, Prince of the corroded zincents).
>>
>> > > > > oly
>>
>d
>> > > > didn't intend to do so.
>>
>t.
>>
>> > > > oly
>>
>> > > Oly is GAY too!!
>>
>> > Oly and Bremich are gay lovers having sex!
>> > Bremick and Oly are gay lovers so leave them alone and let them have
>> > sex together- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I'm not gay, although I've often thought I'd like to be a lesbian.
>>
>> oly
>
>so you are a woman? you have a vagina? oh...sorry I said the things I
>did then. I thought you had a peepee! Anyway since you are DICKLESS do
>NOT worth because I pack a 12 incher and can spare half of it if you
>need it!!! :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
you are gay, huh?
sgt23
I know for a fact your mother isn't lesbian....
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
You're drunk dad, Go Home!!!
oly
sgt23
I was just a little drunk that night lol. If I was his dad, he
wouldn't be on here spreading lies, drooling off at the mouth and he
would have received a better education.
pinkba...@yahoo.com
eat me
pinkba...@yahoo.com
YOU are the gay boy so fuck off!!
pinkba...@yahoo.com
And fuck you and your mom! I fucked her good last night OLYOIL!!
pinkba...@yahoo.com
SGT23 is gay, lesbian, and transexual! ALL 3! Who is this sgt23 dude
anyway! Fuck YOU and fuck HIM!!
pinkba...@yahoo.com
Drunk? What ya drink boy? Milk? Hey, who the FUCK R U ANYWAY boy!? You
seem like a gay boy fucktard!
pinkba...@yahoo.com
what the fuck?