Gold prices plummet!
j-rod
September 24, 1869
Gold prices plummet
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=6117
JAM
Arizona Coin Collector
"j-rod" <j-...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4ABB8820...@nospam.net...
Hello
The good news is crude oil also dropped.
You can check the spot trade price on Bloomberg at the links
below. It is now showing at $998.70.
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/cfutures.html
..
The Giant Brain
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:raCdnWuJtdO9BybX...@earthlink.com...
Folks, we have a contender for most clueless response to a post.
Shall we close the nominations now and all acclaim Arizona Coin Collector the
winner?
MJKolodziej
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:raCdnWuJtdO9BybX...@earthlink.com...
>
Arizona CC, this link is about history on this day. I'll paste here as you
so kindly do on your posts:
September 24, 1869
Gold prices plummet
On this day, more colorfully known as "Black Friday," gold prices plummeted,
sending the markets into chaos. At the root of the wreckage was an
old-fashioned swindle, engineered by flamboyant financier Jay Gould and his
robber baron partner, James Fisk. Gould and Fisk conspired to inflate and
then corner the gold market, primarily by spreading a rumor that President
Grant was about to stop the sale of government gold. Grant, who was better
suited to the battlefield than office, initially bought into their logic,
due, in part, to his belief that the sale of government gold would hurt
farmers and small-time entrepreneurs. The president eventually saw through
the scheme and, in response, put $4 million worth of gold on the market. The
price of gold in specie, which had previously swelled to $163.50, promptly
shrank to $133. Investors were ruined and the economy went into a tailspin.
The swindle ultimately took a toll on two of its main players. It blemished
Grant's record, raising suspicions about the war hero's competency. And
Gould surreptitiously dumped his share of the gold before the drop in specie
prices, leaving Fisk with a hefty loss on the deal.
mk
oly
> "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in messagenews:raCdnWuJtdO9BybX...@earthlink.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, it's the stupidest RCC response since the "Giant Brain"
expounded with ultimate authority that that nice 1841 British Gold
Sovereign was worth melt, or about $225 - not the 8,000 pounds that it
catalogs at.
So it's the stupidest response in about three weeks.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
All this argument is meaningless to me, having just lost my entire nest egg
due to this latest gold crash. This could be my last post, because I can
see someone pounding at my front door, yelling something about how he's
going to repo my computer, and he's got a U.S. Marshal with him.
James the Homeless
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jay Gould survived the 1869 debacle for many many years - and died
rather old and still rich.
You will too, mon vieux.
They don't repo computers. Used computer is worth three cents on the
dollar to the finance company. They will harass you for the money to
the fullest extent they can get away with - but remember, they don't
want the computer back, ever.
oly
The Giant Brain
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:94cb62e6-26c9-4db1...@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
--------------------------------------------------------
Drunk again, Oly?
Or is it still?
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sometimes I'm sober.
But you are always stupid, el "Braniac".
oly
The Giant Brain
Sometimes I'm sober.
--------------------------------------------
You must lead a horrible life being both drunk and dense, not to mention the
fact you have reading comprehension problems and are seemingly incapable of
telling the truth.
The signal-to-noise ratio of your drunken missives have gotten to the point
where I must bid you adieu.
PLONK
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, at least you're no longer in denial about the fact that you
advised Hans that his 8,000 GBP coin was only worth 225 USD.
You used to whine and whine and whine that you never made that tidbit
of excellent advice.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Whew, it was just a couple of my neighbors from down the street pulling a
prank. Now I can get back to my Scrooge McDuck roleplay.
James the Miser
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scrooge McDuck had his money bin full of both gold and greenbacks.
Wouldn't a real dyed-in-the-wool miser have had only gold???
oly
Mr. Jaggers
He uses the gold to fill the tub for his bath. The greenbacks are carried
to leave a dollar tip for waiters.
James the Stiff
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scrooge is a Scotsman!!! NO WAY would he be leaving a whole dollar
for the waiters!!!
Hughey, Dewey and Louie were lucky to get a quarter apiece from the
old fart on their birthdays!!!
oly
Some 19th century American miser (I believe the fellow might have been
a lawyer too) issued a token (or something exo-numismatic) that said
"Never Trust a Paper Dollar Until Tommorrow".
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
In all fairness to Scrooge McDuck, that birthday quarter went a lot
further back then - maybe as many as five candy bars (or perhaps three
candy bars plus some penny candy and Bazooka bubble gum).
oly
Mr. Jaggers
That vieux canard (some would say connard) �cossais learned his lesson the
hard way when Daisy deep-sixed the old flatulence for tipping a quarter one
time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been gazing from afar while his lady
love cavorts with his no-good nephew Donald.
James the Cartoonist
Mr. Jaggers
No kidding. Just the other day, as I plunked four quarters in a vending
machine for a Three Musketeers, I mentioned to a Sweet Young Thing standing
there that I used to get one for a nickel. Candy bar, I'm talking about.
James the Generous
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sweets for the Sweet.
I can remember five cent first class stamps, but I might be stretching
it a bit to say that I really remember the five cent candy bar. Even
at age seven or eight (c.1967) we were just a bit past that on the
long march of U.S. monetary inflation.
I always admired the inventor fellow in the Scrooge McDuck series -
Gyro Gearloose or some name like that???
Huey, Dewey and Louie were a little bratty, 'tho basically good boys.
They were a little bit like Popeye's "Swee' Pea" - whose the heck kids
were they, anyway???
oly
Mr. Jaggers
You're just a whippersnapper, then. When I used to send first-class letters
to my aunt, I used 3c stamps. They were purple and had the Statue of
Liberty on them. I also used to buy bottles of Coke at the corner store for
5c - until that awful day when the price was raised 20% in one swell foop,
to 6c. My budget was in ruins for a long time after that.
> I always admired the inventor fellow in the Scrooge McDuck series -
> Gyro Gearloose or some name like that???
That's the guy!
> Huey, Dewey and Louie were a little bratty, 'tho basically good boys.
> They were a little bit like Popeye's "Swee' Pea" - whose the heck kids
> were they, anyway???
They belonged to Donald's twin sister Della. The kids allegedly committed
reckless homicide of their Dad in a fireworks accident.
James Howard the Duck
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
And now for something completely different..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aBG26d6aO25U
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Heh. It wasn't that awfully long ago that being an investment banker
virtually guaranteed a guy that he'd have babes hanging all over him.
James the Babe Magnet
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I believe that "Giglobubu" has some potential as a label for the
period still ahead of us.
I like the author's comparison of a financial collapse to a "rockfall"
in a old-fashioned real metals mine.
Didn't Scrooge McDuck did have a couple of rare coins, but he culled
them from circulation??? - he certainly would never have paid a
premium to a coin dealer...
oly
mazorj
In most of the depictions that I remember, he mostly had coins. Mountainous
piles of them, loose and in bags. In one comic book episode the vault was
almost overflowing with 1916 SLQs. In an interesting nod to numismatics,
Scrooge had almost finished cornering the market on them and was ecstatic at
his coup. I was delighted to see that a comic book character even knew
about the scarcity of the 1916 SLQ, to which a 9-year-old could only aspire
and dream about.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Indeed, the 1916 SLQ to which 50 year-olds can mostly only aspire to
and dream about...
But still, did Scrooge pay a premium for them??? It would have been
most out of his Scotch character...
oly
Arizona Coin Collector
Well, it's the stupidest RCC response since the "Giant Brain"
expounded with ultimate authority that that nice 1841 British Gold
Sovereign was worth melt, or about $225 - not the 8,000 pounds that it
catalogs at.
So it's the stupidest response in about three weeks.
oly
--------------------------------------------------------
Hello Oly
My "shot gun" response was from the "subject line' and not
responding to the actual link that was provided. In this case,
I should have stop and viewed the link first. I often run a link
through either Google, or Yahoo to make sure the link is safe
to go to. Depending if you have MacAfee or Norton, you
get a report on a link to see if it is safe. You see a green check
arrow beside the link indicating it is safe.
As for your remarks above on "1841 British Gold Sovereign",
I did check out the remarks dated 09/01/09 (see below).
The first posting on "Gold Sovereign" was dated on 07/19/09.
---------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Giant Brain" <gi...@brain.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.coins
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Gold Sovereign
A dealer would probably try to get them for bullion value (.2354 troy oz
each). At recent gold values (about $950/oz) each coin has about $225
in gold value. OTOH, eBay has listing fees, final value fees and the
inevitable Paypal fees which really add up (probably around $15-$20
for each coin). I don't think the coins are all that rare in the condition
you describe - I've bought circulated young head Vickies for around
melt in the past. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
..
oly
wrote:
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Essentially I was running some interference on your behalf, AZ.
Indeed, you really should have read the article. You were only 140
years off this time.
As for the time factor elapsed since el Brainiac's giant boner, "my
how time flies when you are having fun".
oly
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h9grh...@enews5.newsguy.com...
> one time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been gazing from afar while his
> lady love cavorts with his no-good nephew Donald.
>
> James the Cartoonist
I trust that this is an accurate recitation of the event and not some foul
quackery in the form of a canard canard?
- mazorj
"Cognates and puns conflated while you wait."
oly
> > hard way when Daisy deep-sixed the old flatulence for tipping a quarter
> > one time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been gazing from afar while his
> > lady love cavorts with his no-good nephew Donald.
>
> > James the Cartoonist
>
> I trust that this is an accurate recitation of the event and not some foul
> quackery in the form of a canard canard?
>
> - mazorj
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's pretty difficult to catch James mistaking something factual from
the history of Paris - if it happened at Maxim's, he's probably "right
on the money".
oly
oly
Mr. Jaggers
>>> lesson the hard way when Daisy deep-sixed the old flatulence for
>>> tipping a quarter one time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been
>>> gazing from afar while his lady love cavorts with his no-good
>>> nephew Donald.
>>
>>> James the Cartoonist
>>
>> I trust that this is an accurate recitation of the event and not
>> some foul quackery in the form of a canard canard?
>>
>> - mazorj
>> "Cognates and puns conflated while you wait."- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> It's pretty difficult to catch James mistaking something factual from
> the history of Paris - if it happened at Maxim's, he's probably "right
> on the money".
Normally, though, what happens at Maxim's stays at Maxim's.
James, 3, Rue Royale
oly
> >>> lesson the hard way when Daisy deep-sixed the old flatulence for
> >>> tipping a quarter one time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been
> >>> gazing from afar while his lady love cavorts with his no-good
> >>> nephew Donald.
>
> >>> James the Cartoonist
>
> >> I trust that this is an accurate recitation of the event and not
> >> some foul quackery in the form of a canard canard?
>
> >> - mazorj
> >> "Cognates and puns conflated while you wait."- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > It's pretty difficult to catch James mistaking something factual from
> > the history of Paris - if it happened at Maxim's, he's probably "right
> > on the money".
>
> Normally, though, what happens at Maxim's stays at Maxim's.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'd like to respond en francais, but my verbs seem hopeless tonight.
I've had the pleasure of strolling by the terrasse of Maxim's on
several occasions, but feel that the joint is beyond my pocketbook.
It pleases me to think of Scrooge and Daisy eating there, however.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
>>>>> lesson the hard way when Daisy deep-sixed the old flatulence for
>>>>> tipping a quarter one time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been
>>>>> gazing from afar while his lady love cavorts with his no-good
>>>>> nephew Donald.
>>
>>>>> James the Cartoonist
>>
>>>> I trust that this is an accurate recitation of the event and not
>>>> some foul quackery in the form of a canard canard?
>>
>>>> - mazorj
>>>> "Cognates and puns conflated while you wait."- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> It's pretty difficult to catch James mistaking something factual
>>> from the history of Paris - if it happened at Maxim's, he's
>>> probably "right on the money".
>>
>> Normally, though, what happens at Maxim's stays at Maxim's.
>>
>> James, 3, Rue Royale- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I'd like to respond en francais, but my verbs seem hopeless tonight.
> I've had the pleasure of strolling by the terrasse of Maxim's on
> several occasions, but feel that the joint is beyond my pocketbook.
> It pleases me to think of Scrooge and Daisy eating there, however.
For at least a period of time, admittance was by recognition only. You had
to be a regular, and getting a window seat, well, another matter entirely,
to be negotiated with the maitre d'.
Absent that talent, there's always the Tour d'Argent.
James the Palmgreaser
oly
> >>>>> lesson the hard way when Daisy deep-sixed the old flatulence for
> >>>>> tipping a quarter one time at Maxim's. Ever since then he's been
> >>>>> gazing from afar while his lady love cavorts with his no-good
> >>>>> nephew Donald.
>
> >>>>> James the Cartoonist
>
> >>>> I trust that this is an accurate recitation of the event and not
> >>>> some foul quackery in the form of a canard canard?
>
> >>>> - mazorj
> >>>> "Cognates and puns conflated while you wait."- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >>> It's pretty difficult to catch James mistaking something factual
> >>> from the history of Paris - if it happened at Maxim's, he's
> >>> probably "right on the money".
>
> >> Normally, though, what happens at Maxim's stays at Maxim's.
>
> >> James, 3, Rue Royale- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I'd like to respond en francais, but my verbs seem hopeless tonight.
> > I've had the pleasure of strolling by the terrasse of Maxim's on
> > several occasions, but feel that the joint is beyond my pocketbook.
> > It pleases me to think of Scrooge and Daisy eating there, however.
>
> For at least a period of time, admittance was by recognition only. You had
> to be a regular, and getting a window seat, well, another matter entirely,
> to be negotiated with the maitre d'.
>
> Absent that talent, there's always the Tour d'Argent.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The old saw that I've heard time and time again is that it is cheaper
to eat money than to dine at la Tour d'Argent. Francs and euros
probably aren't nearly as tasty as the pressed duck, however.
Is it O.K. to run one's bread through the famous Tour d'Arent duck
sauce??? My manners are not the best, but then I go to the restuarant
to dine, not to be seen.
Now, I suppose if Scrooge and Daisy had eaten there, they might be
accused of cannibalism.
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
What was the name of the place where Hemingway had his famous potato
salad(s) and beer(s) after Sylvia Beach gave him the newspaper money
from Germany???
There, I've always heard that you can always get seated upstairs, but
you've got to be a real somebody in the French Pantheon to get a seat
at a table on the main floor. Even some big-shots of the English
speaking world can't sit at a table on the first floor.
oly
oly
En Voila!!!
http://www.brasserie-lipp.com/
Ain't the internet wonderful???
You can also read the pertinent sections of "A Moveable Feast" for
free too.
oly
Scott Stevenson
>On Sep 24, 12:47�pm, "The Giant Brain" <gi...@brain.invalid> wrote:
>> "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in messagenews:raCdnWuJtdO9BybX...@earthlink.com...
>>
>>
>> Folks, we have a contender for most clueless response to a post.
>> Shall we close the nominations now and all acclaim Arizona Coin Collector the
>> winner?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Well, it's the stupidest RCC response since the "Giant Brain"
>expounded with ultimate authority that that nice 1841 British Gold
>Sovereign was worth melt, or about $225 - not the 8,000 pounds that it
>catalogs at.
>
>So it's the stupidest response in about three weeks.
I must say--well played!
take care,
Scott
oly
Merde!!! Zut!!!
Those devious Suissies pulled one over on me. Try this link instead
for France:
http://www.ila-chateau.com/lipp/
While I've never wanted to go to Geneva, the first restaurant almost
looked like a good enough reason to go, all by itself.
oly
mazorj
As in any fiction, the reader (even a 9-year-old) has to agree to a certain
amount of willing suspension of disbelief. (Not the least of which is to
accept the fact that all cartoon characters only have 3 fingers.) Even at
9, because of the obvious relationships between mintages and most Red Book
prices, I instinctively understood the effect of supply on pricing. As I
recall, Unca Scrooge did it very quickly before anyone noticed that they
were disappearing from trade channels. (Much like Disney did later, buying
up farms and swamps in central Florida through dummy corporations to avoid
the sudden price jump that would have occurred if the remaining sellers had
gotten wind of some planned Disney World project.) So my willing suspension
of belief was to assume that anyone with his enormous wealth could afford to
part with a little of it to scoop up the relatively small supply of 1916
SQLs using methods that were quick and quiet. In fact, IIRC, the episode
revolved around his efforts to get the very last one in existence outside
his vault. This being what it was, of course he ended up getting his
come-uppance in some manner that escapes me now, but it undoubtedly involved
Donald and/or his three nephews.
And yes, the silly goose inventor was Gyro Screwloose.
- mazorj, erstwhile Disney comic bookworm
mazorj
I would have expected Unca Scrooge to follow the practice of one of his
proto-archetypes. John D. Rockefeller was famous for tipping everyone for
every service with a "nice shiny new dime". Unless it was an 1894-O Barber
or a lesser key date, even after allowing for inflation (a dime then being
worth what, maybe $1.50 - $2.00 in today's CPI-indexed dollars?), a solitary
dime was a pretty chintzy tip for anyone of substance to have given then,
let alone a multi-millionaire captain of industry.
So allowing for inflation from Rockefeller's time to the 1950-ish Disney
comic that you cited, McDuck's quarter at most was roughly the same as
Rockefeller's dime, if that much. So you're absolutely right - no way would
Unca Scrooge have left that kind of money (a whole buck!) on the table, even
to impress Miss Daisy. The relationship was doomed from the start. :-)
As a final added observation about changing times and mores: There's no way
that today's PC Police would permit a Disney comic book to exhibit the
"offensive ethnic stereotyping" of people of the Scottish persuasion as
"cheap and miserly". If Scrooge McDuck were created today, he'd have to be
an evil white male CEO capitalist exploiter with a name something like
"Gordon McGekko" or "Birdie Madoff" in order to please the PC nannies. His
money vault would be on an off-shore island and the plots would alternate
between dodging IRS tax agents, and selling toxic assets to widows and
minorities.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
The PC police would not want to see gold and silver portrayed as
money, which Scrooge McDuck certainly knows that they are in reality.
The PTB want people to think that printed paper is "money" and to
forget about gold and silver.
I am also fairly certain that 85%+ of the American people could not
readily identify "Scotland" (or Wales or Ireland) as a distinct place
on a map. I only give England more "visibility" because one hell of a
lot of American women seem to know where Harrods is located. Nor
could most Americans identify Andrew Carnegie (perhaps the prototype
of Scrooge McDuck) or John D. Rockefeller Sr. as historical
individuals.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
As much as I hate to agree completely about anything, I fear that you are
correct. They may have studied these things at one time, but memory fades
over time, most often a very short time. Nowhere is this affliction more
visible than in the U.S. House and Senate.
James the Bipartisan
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I attribute the "state of things" to the fact that the large majority
Americans are trained to be technicians and not generalists.
Americans tend to be trained in all facets of one small "practical"
speciality (in which they then make their livings) and the liberal
arts are not just ignored - they are deprecated.
All these technicians can be dropped in and out with much
interchangeability - which gives our "system(s)" a certain kind of
strength, I suppose - but we are the iceberg-shaped society described
in "Brave New World" and elsewhere.
oly
j-rod
I can remember my father paying 23� for a gallon of gas.
When I started driving is was already up to 30�.
JAM
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
One of my fonder personal memories was when gasoline fell back to 60
cents per gallon in 1985-86, after having been about twice as high a
bit earlier.
By that standard, we ought to be pleased today - $2.42 and 9/10ths
ain't too bad compared to the spring and summer of 2008.
oly
j-rod
It's all just a little bit of history repeating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTUIHK7gHRE
Unregulated capitalism has resulted in economic disaster many time in
the past.
The current mess can be traced to the rush to deregulate in 2000.
If you want to pin the tail on the jackasses that are responsible just
look here...
JAM
Mr. Jaggers
I remember when vending machine cigarettes cost 23c as well. You'd put a
quarter in the machine and out would pop a pack of Camels with 2 cents
change under the cellophane. The lucky customers got one, maybe two, 55
doubled dies.
James the Non-Smoker
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Limited to certain upstate NY vending machines only, if memory
serves...
I wonder if the jobber who serviced those machines ever knew...
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I believe he's currently in the Shady Lawn Home of Rest and Repose.
James the Inmate
Peter
> September 24, 1869
>
> Gold prices plummet
>
> http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=6117
>
> JAM
So far (peak to trough) this is a 2.96% drop. Is the word plummet yet
needed?
oly
The original post referred to Jay Gould's "Black Friday", which
occurred on September 24, 1869 - ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY YEARS AGO.
That's 140 years ago!!! 1869 1869 1869.
The OP is not referring to a contemporary market fluctuation.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
It's de rigueur if one wishes to attract viewers and readers.
James the Hyperbolic
Peter
Oops. I may have had too many links open and made an error.
Bruce Remick
oly
________________
I ran into $2.21 gas the other day in southern NJ, where they even pump it
for you (by law).
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Overnight, we went down another nine cents here in the patch, to
$2.329.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
It's a left-wing conspiracy, I tell you!
James the Dittohead
Bruce Remick
______________________
Then as of today, you're about a dime cheaper than my neighborhood in
Northern VA. Maybe tomorrow.
mazorj
"Peter" <w2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8c9bfde5-b943-430e...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Only to counteract those who trumpet a 2.96% rise as "soaring gold prices".
mazorj
On Sep 25, 8:31 am, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
> j-rod wrote:
> > oly wrote:
...
> >> I can remember five cent first class stamps, but I might be
> >> stretching it a bit to say that I really remember the five cent
> >> candy bar. Even at age seven or eight (c.1967) we were just a bit
> >> past that on the long march of U.S. monetary inflation.
>
> >> I always admired the inventor fellow in the Scrooge McDuck series -
> >> Gyro Gearloose or some name like that???
>
> >> Huey, Dewey and Louie were a little bratty, 'tho basically good boys.
> >> They were a little bit like Popeye's "Swee' Pea" - whose the heck
> >> kids were they, anyway???
>
> >> oly
>
> > I can remember my father paying 23� for a gallon of gas.
>
> > When I started driving is was already up to 30�.
>
> I remember when vending machine cigarettes cost 23c as well. You'd put a
> quarter in the machine and out would pop a pack of Camels with 2 cents
> change under the cellophane. The lucky customers got one, maybe two, 55
> doubled dies.
>
> James the Non-Smoker- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
< Limited to certain upstate NY vending machines only, if memory serves...
<
< I wonder if the jobber who serviced those machines ever knew...
I remember those, at a time when I had never ventured farther north than Noo
Yawk City. I also saw them locally, farther south. The pennies always were
shiny new ones but the ones I saw were common dates. Since we're playing
the Memory Lane prices game, I remember:
Working in a store in 1964 and selling cigarettes at 17 cents, two for 33
cents for the "regular" size (Luckies, Camels), 18 cents and 2 for 35 cents
for king size and filter tips.
Gas below 30 cents. Asking my father what "ESSO" stood for while the
attendant pumped our gas, cleaned our windshield, and checked the oil. Dad
having to specify "use the detergent oil" if it was low.
Stamps at 4 cents, and IIRC, even the 3-cent era.
The nickel 1-oz. Hershey bar of the 1950s, and later around 1970 when they
raised the price by cutting the content to 7/8-oz. - creating a BIG stink
from chocolate lovers.
Driving my wife-to-be's new $2,000 1968 Chevy Nova, and later plunking down
the extraordinary amount of $3,000 for an orange 1973 VW Super Beetle.
$2000 per semester for tuition with room & board at a top-level university.
Blue Whitman coin folders at around 15 cents each. Banks that occasionally
had real silver dollars for wide-eyed young collectors.
McDonald hamburgers at 15 cents, cheeseburgers for 19 cents.
The small 5-cent Coke bottles (around 6-3/4 oz.) from the machine at the
barber shop (75 cents for a "regular boy's haircut") and you had to put the
empty back in the partitioned wooden case or cough up two cents for the
bottle deposit.
Asking neighbors for their empty Coke and Pepsi bottles to redeem the 2-cent
deposits at the grocery store.
And last but quite possibly the best - the store clerk automatically
throwing a free churchkey into the bag with every purchase of a $1.10
six-pack. If you didn't buy any beer they were 5 cents but everyone already
had a drawer full of them.
Oh, one more... In the 1950s, hearing from our elders that the 1950s, which
we now regard as the "good old days," actually sucked and the good old days
of 5-cent bread, 10-cent gas, and 75-cent steak dinners with all the
trimmings already were behind us.
- mazorj
"He who remembers the past nostalgically is doomed to wanting to repeat it."
j-rod
Thanks!
You saved me a lot of unnecessary typing.
JAM
Bruce Remick
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Iw8vm.3508$tl3...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Good point. But maybe akin to claims of "soaring unemployment" (up .5%),
or devastating climatic temperature change (up .3 degree Fahrenheit) I
guess the verbiage chosen all depends on one's agenda.
Bruce Remick
I rember buying "Wings" for 18� and some other obscure brand that offered
what looked like a Scotch tape mouthpiece. I lived in RI where many of the
1955 DDO's were found. My dad found two for me.
>
> Gas below 30 cents. Asking my father what "ESSO" stood for while the
> attendant pumped our gas, cleaned our windshield, and checked the oil.
> Dad having to specify "use the detergent oil" if it was low.
I ran into some 15�/gallon gas wars in Florida in 1965 when convenience
stores began adding fuel pumps.
>
> Stamps at 4 cents, and IIRC, even the 3-cent era.
>
> The nickel 1-oz. Hershey bar of the 1950s, and later around 1970 when they
> raised the price by cutting the content to 7/8-oz. - creating a BIG stink
> from chocolate lovers.
>
My parents gave me 5� "babysitting money" to watch my younger brother in the
early 1950's. I was able to fill a small brown bag with penny candies from
the local mom & pop store for that nickel.
> Driving my wife-to-be's new $2,000 1968 Chevy Nova, and later plunking
> down the extraordinary amount of $3,000 for an orange 1973 VW Super
> Beetle.
In the Army in 1962, I found that a $100 bill usually gave one lots of
choices at the local used car lots. I chose a 1951 Chevy for $50 and drove
it away.
>
> $2000 per semester for tuition with room & board at a top-level
> university.
I paid $820 for my first year at Rhode Island School of Design in 1959.
Tuition there now is higher than Brown University next door.
>
> Blue Whitman coin folders at around 15 cents each. Banks that
> occasionally had real silver dollars for wide-eyed young collectors.
Youre' lucky with the folders. The ones I remember were 35�. My mom worked
in a bank in the 1950's and on Fridays she would bring home 20 silver
dollars for me to date-check. I was only able to afford a couple
medium-toughies, but it was fun looking.
>
> McDonald hamburgers at 15 cents, cheeseburgers for 19 cents.
>
> The small 5-cent Coke bottles (around 6-3/4 oz.) from the machine at the
> barber shop (75 cents for a "regular boy's haircut") and you had to put
> the empty back in the partitioned wooden case or cough up two cents for
> the bottle deposit.
Aren't those small bottles making a limited comeback today? I recall the 5�
bottles as well as the occasional high tech machine that offered several
different brand and flavor options. Tough choice between grape and orange.
Never paid more than 50� for a haircut until I went into the Army.
>
> Asking neighbors for their empty Coke and Pepsi bottles to redeem the
> 2-cent deposits at the grocery store.
>
> And last but quite possibly the best - the store clerk automatically
> throwing a free churchkey into the bag with every purchase of a $1.10
> six-pack. If you didn't buy any beer they were 5 cents but everyone
> already had a drawer full of them.
I always carried one of my own, as did most kids (er, young men) who drank
beer. A couple of Giant Imperial Quarts (GIQ's) of Narragansett at 50� each
were usually enough to do the trick, whatever the trick might have been.
>
> Oh, one more... In the 1950s, hearing from our elders that the 1950s,
> which we now regard as the "good old days," actually sucked and the good
> old days of 5-cent bread, 10-cent gas, and 75-cent steak dinners with all
> the trimmings already were behind us.
For my parents, starting out during the Depression, there weren't as many
"good old days" memories as I had.
oly
> "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Hw8vm.3507$tl3....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tuition for my first two semesters at the University of Illinois in
'77-'78 was $450 each semester (books another $150 or so). My dad was
a grain farmer who was doing very well in those days and I had no
money worries. The cost of everything plus some monthly allowance $$$
was $3,000 per year. I bought several nice 1904 Liberty $20s for
under $250 in the winter of 1977-78 and sold them about eighteen
months later for a triple. That was my beer and pizza and personal
library/books money for several semesters plus a new color TV.
While that tuition price may sound stiff to those who went through 15
years earlier, I can regale my many nieces and newphews with that
number nowadays.
My youngest sister (nine years younger) attended Illinois Wesleyan
(sic) University and my dad said that her 1st year costs more or less
totaled my entire four years at U of I.
Some of my earlier financial memories involve Nixon's horseshit "Wage
and Price Controls". By then, I was old enough to notice that lots of
little things popped in price after the controls were lifted.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
No matter how much anyone here, including myself, waxes nostalgic, I will
continue to proclaim that "THESE are the good old days."
James the Libertine
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Inasmuch as this country may need to depreciate the present value of
the currency by 95% or so, in order that we can have a fair chance of
servicing our collective public and private debts - I fear you may be
correct.
There are many good things today IF you can pay the freight or get
somebody to pay for you. For instance, the doctors worked on my heart
again earlier this week (two more stents on Wednesday AM and I walked
out of the hospital on my own less than 30 hours later) and forty
years ago I probably would have had a heart attack or two by now.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Three cheers for the team that made you whole again!
Your survival has obviously benefitted from medecine's state of the art, but
only as the result of your access to it. Now that you have been spared and
live on, I hope you will gain an appreciation for what the President is
trying to accomplish in health care reform. I have heard all I can tolerate
from the smug who have health coverage toward those who have it not.
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am lucky enough and my stent placer is one of the very best to be
found anywhere - and sadly, there will have to be a lot fewer pork
products and fried chicken in my future.
As for the politics - you know me, I am a deeply cynical Republican
operative who prefers the traditional center & right-wing folks in the
seats of power. Dyed-in-the-wool Conservative yes, but pragmatically
wanting the traditional WASPs and their fellow travelers in the
positions of power. Dogma is O.K., but holding the office counts even
more.
If the GOP had any political sense (and they don't seem to have much
electoral sense at the top at this moment), they would advocate
"Medicare for Everyone" (well, not for people who are in the country
illegally) and throw the health insurance/HMO/ Health Maintenance
industry bastards wholesale to the wolves.
My midwestern populist sense is that "Medicare for Everyone" is what
most people truly want. Americans want the equivalent of the English
"National Health Service", MOL. I say give it to 'em.
But this go around, I also believe that Mr. Obama isn't going to get
much farther than Billary did in 1993-94. The grid is very very
locked-up and the USA is pissing away mucho dinero elsewhere with two
wars going on. Mr. Obama can't seem to make the obvious choice
between guns and butter, so I don't think he's gonna get a lot of
butter this year or next (and then there is the less than one year-old
"No-fault Wall Street 12 trillion dollar Monster Bailout" which he
didn't make but that he won't repudiate either).
If you ever have a heart complaint, get in to the doctor right away.
They can do a ton to help you, on a minimally invasive basis. One of
my cousins has had rather more severe problems than me, and his view
is that "the decision to get help is the hardest part - after you make
the decision, it is all easy after that". Don't wait to see a
cardiologist for the first time until after you've had that first
heart attack.
oly
The Deeply Cynical
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h9jpa...@enews1.newsguy.com...
> oly wrote:
>> On Sep 25, 7:02 pm, "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
...
>>>> Oh, one more... In the 1950s, hearing from our elders that the
>>>> 1950s, which we now regard as the "good old days," actually sucked
>>>> and the good old days of 5-cent bread, 10-cent gas, and 75-cent
>>>> steak dinners with all the trimmings already were behind us.
...
> No matter how much anyone here, including myself, waxes nostalgic, I will
> continue to proclaim that "THESE are the good old days."
>
> James the Libertine
Perhaps it was too well hidden, but that was the point of my closing
anecdote. Tomorrow, today will be yesterday. Enjoy it while you can.
- mazorj the Philosophical
Mr. Jaggers
Normally I snip a poster's tagline, but in this case I elect to preserve it,
as I do not believe it applies. Your disquisition above is the most
refreshing thing I've seen from a conservative since the Eisenhower
Administration. After all, I, too, was a conservative until the
conservative movement became poisoned by Rush Limbaugh and the Religious
Right.
It doesn't take a genius to observe that the people who show up at the
townhall meetings, teaparties, and tax protest rallies, carrying signs with
the President's image overlain with swastikas and Hitler images and yelling
about how they don't want the government in their lives at all, seem to
always be those who have a secure healthcare plan. I have yet to see an
unemployed or "pre-existing condition" person speak out against some form of
guaranteed coverage, not a single one. It's always the "I've got mine,
screw everybody else" attitude that dominates, leaving a disgusting stink in
the room every time healthcare is scheduled to be discussed.
I might even confess to my Libertarian roots and state that, in my view, the
only legitimate role of national government is to provide services for its
citizens that they cannot possibly provide for themselves. National defense
is certainly one of these, as is some plan for dealing with contagions that
do not recognize state boundaries. Things such as an interstate highway
system certainly need some kind of federal oversight and support. A common
currency, for better or worse, helps us avoid the crazyquilt monetary
situation that existed for hundreds of years in the Holy Roman Empire,
impeding progress as well as commerce. It should be obvious to anyone who
is not already brainwashed by the radio and tv talkers that healthcare is
rapidly fitting itself into that same category, and that none of us, other
than the legislators themselves, who can vote themselves any benefit they
wish, is really secure in his position. In my view, politicians who
pontificate about the evils of socialism need to renounce their own
government-paid healthcare and pay their own way or go without like so many
of their constituents have to do, in order to have any credibility with me
whatsoever, and I don't care which party they represent. Median family
income in the U.S. being what it is, $12,000+ a year for private health
coverage (which neither you nor I could even get because of our PECs) is as
far out of reach for a hard-working, struggling family as is the cost of
building a road from the breadwinner's house to his place of work.
I have no problem with a non-white family in the White House, nor do I have
a problem with your preference for DITW WASP conservatives there, either.
What I want to see from the persons and party in power is positive results.
This does not include impeachments having to do with sex acts, half-cocked
declarations of war, or sanctimonious politicians telling us how much they
love the Constitution and Freedom and Jesus and then serving up the green
weenie to the poor schlubs who have been taxpayers all their lives and find
themselves with medical conditions that will cause them to lose their pride
and everything they have spent their entire lives working for.
If I never post here again, there will no doubt be many readers who rejoice,
having read the above. So be it. I stand by every word of it.
James
mazorj
On Sep 25, 9:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
...
> > There are many good things today IF you can pay the freight or get
> > somebody to pay for you. For instance, the doctors worked on my heart
> > again earlier this week (two more stents on Wednesday AM and I walked
> > out of the hospital on my own less than 30 hours later) and forty
> > years ago I probably would have had a heart attack or two by now.
>
> Three cheers for the team that made you whole again!
>
> Your survival has obviously benefitted from medecine's state of the art,
> but
> only as the result of your access to it. Now that you have been spared and
> live on, I hope you will gain an appreciation for what the President is
> trying to accomplish in health care reform. I have heard all I can
> tolerate
> from the smug who have health coverage toward those who have it not.
>
> James- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
=============================
oly
The Deeply Cynical
==========================
Thank you, gentlemen, this arguably is the best single exchange I've seen
here on health care.
James, the fact that the have's are playing dog in the manger on health care
is not surprising. 'Twas ever thus. What totally mystifies me is that once
again, the have-not's have been bamboozled by the have's into ignorantly
opposing something that benefits them the most. I fully expect to see
industry operatives at work opposing it. What breaks my heart is seeing
ordinarily sensible people yelling and screaming out against the first major
initiative to improve their lives and the overall welfare of our nation
since the early Clinton health plan. When an individual opposes efforts to
solve a problem in his or her life, we usually find some underlying neurosis
and label the behavior as pathological. When a mob does the same thing...
in this case I think it comes damnably close to qualifying as a lynching
party. Read whatever you want into that trope and how it relates to our
first black president; but the bottom line is that it is us who not only are
Pogo's met enemy - we are the real victims of our health care witch hunt.
oly, this was the most rational statement of your views that I've seen
collected in one post. (In fact, you're scaring me. This past week or so
I've been nodding and smiling in agreement at most of your posts!) You
nailed it perfectly with your take on the health plan proposals. We and
everyone else will disagree on the details, but the people - voters! -
really do want some kind of major, progressive reform. Obama is caught
between a rock and a hard economic downturn, plus the legacy costs of his
predecessor's actions, plus the extraordinary ambitiousness of his own
goals, all of which is overlaid with hypocritical partisan politics from
both sides. I remain hopeful, but not nearly as optimistic as I was a year
ago.
Likewise, congrats on your medical procedures. I had a heart attack in
1992, a 4-way by-pass in 1996. After 13 years of living on time borrowed
through medical miracles, last February I got the heart stent. In April it
was 3 stents, 16 inches total, in one leg and the two descending arteries.
I will go back to do the other leg. Ten years ago, leg stenting was pretty
much unheard of. Now it's an out-patient procedure. Hell, they even gave
me a wallet card from my doctor documenting the stents because security
magnetometers will start clanging at Defcon 3 whenever I pass through one.
And as living proof, I say "Right on!" to your advice about taking care of
yourself, especially the pumping station. There is grief in waiting, and a
helluva lot of of relief in just taking that first step. You people out
there in your 20s and 30s and 40s, listen up to us old farts. To quote a
1960's tee-shirt slogan that I now wish I had listened to back when I still
didn't quite believe in my own mortality, "If I had known I was going to
live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself."
As Yogi Berra may or may not have said, nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Given all that medical science has done for me, any day that I wake up and
they aren't shoveling dirt in my face is a good one. I'll take that over
30-cent gas and the "Happy Days" culture any day.
- mazorj the Gratitudinous
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h9kva...@enews2.newsguy.com...
As long as our civic guidelines are being shaped by 530-something
politicians whose primary goals are getting re-elected and channeling as
much of our tax money as possible back to their own state, I can't see how
anything of substance ever gets accomplished. The idea of the overnight
overhaul of a massive health care system that already has had 60 years to
grow is like turning the vacant lot into a putting green in a week with
garden tools. Add to that, every pol seems to have his or her own pet
ideas. I have to wonder what their individual qualifications are to take on
such an effort.
I will admit that there is a little bit of the "I've got mine" attitude that
you despise in my own mind. Maybe it comes with age, but I try not to let
it dominate my view of things. I'm all for helping out those less fortunate
than me, but I don't claim to know how to do it, and I don't trust those in
power to come up with a solution either, especially one that they could
agree on given the increasing polarization.
But the thing that gripes me most is that I may not live long enough to
complete the set of National Park quarters. Perhaps a good insurance plan
will ease my mind.
Mr. Jaggers
Dear mazorj the Gradidy...Glatti...Glam...er, Thankful,
Having now lived 63 1/2 years here in North Lugburz and met thousands of
high school students and their parents during my career, and most likely
hundreds of others in my grocery shopping trips to [in a soft whisper]
Walmart, I was puzzled when I spent some time at our local tax protest rally
two weeks ago today, complete with guys walking around with the obligatory
"down with socialism" signs and slurs of various kinds against the
President, and saw not a single person that I recognized. This is all the
more puzzling in the light of the observable fact that it was a planned
event, with our public townsquare having been reserved, a PA system set up,
and a lineup of presenters on the agenda (all presenting variations of only
one side of the issue). "What could possibly be the explanation for this?"
I pondered.
Our local newspaper has of late become a forum for similar expressions of
dissatisfaction with the government. I am additionally puzzled that,
whereas our government has been growing by leaps and bounds since even
before the ink of the Constitution was dry, all-of-a-sudden we don't need no
stinkin' government - one interviewee stated that she wanted the government
"totally out of her life." Okay, Lady, lots of luck with your newfound
independence. But I think it rather naive in a country whose population is
now 75 times what it was when Washington and Jefferson trod American soil.
Just yesterday we had a letter that expressed the view that the various
states should repudiate all obligations that they had ever made to pay
pensions to their former employees, because, after all, people are expected
and able to provide for their own retirement. That's a bit hard to do for
people like me, who had no choice about near-tithing to the state teachers
retirement coffer all those years and who, at my age, are not in a position
to embark on a second 34-year career. The letter closed with the assertion
that Social Security was good enough for most people (I know the writer, and
he has considerably more than "most" people). How ironic! In fact, let's
unceremoniously wean the entire population from the public teat and see how
things go. Yeah, let's do that! I can protect myself against anything,
damn the government's eyes.
As far as that slogan you quoted, I have a poster of a gnarled, grisly old
cowboy uttering that same thought. Wouldn't we all like to go back and do
some things over that were just plain stupid unhealthy. But we can't. Many
of us in this very forum would not be here, save for medical advances. Some
have certainly already perished as the result of not having access to those
advances. Sure, we will all eventually succomb, but how many of these
naysayers will volunteer themselves to go first, instead of always
volunteering some less fortunate person to go first? I've seen more
hypocrisy in my last 5 years than I saw in the half-century plus years that
preceded them, and it gets more sickening by the day.
Sincerely,
James the Brazen
Mr. Jaggers
> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
[time for some major snippage]
You're certainly within the mark there, good Fellow.
However, I'm not content to roll over and put four feet in the air. The
opposition to the current proposals have had over half a century to put
their plan into effect, yet did nothing. It's time to make a move. I won't
see the fruits, but my grandchildren might.
> I will admit that there is a little bit of the "I've got mine"
> attitude that you despise in my own mind. Maybe it comes with age,
> but I try not to let it dominate my view of things. I'm all for
> helping out those less fortunate than me, but I don't claim to know
> how to do it, and I don't trust those in power to come up with a
> solution either, especially one that they could agree on given the
> increasing polarization.
Imagine the scenario in which your present pension and health coverage both
are suddenly taken away by political zealots. Then get back to me. Oh, I
forgot to mention, there are people in both the U.S. government and *your*
state legislature who are wetting their pants to bring that very scenario
about. And that doesn't include all the citizens who hate your guts after
being whipped into a lather by radio talkers.
> But the thing that gripes me most is that I may not live long enough
> to complete the set of National Park quarters. Perhaps a good
> insurance plan will ease my mind.
Well, we certainly hope that you do live long enough to accomplish that
mission. Go ahead, buy that Dansco and start filling it. You'll be glad
you did!
James the National Park Quarter Collector
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
I agree there, and it does seem that our grandchildren have been assuming
one hell of a burden lately. They're due some scheduled relief before
they've even had to bite the bullet.
>
>> I will admit that there is a little bit of the "I've got mine"
>> attitude that you despise in my own mind. Maybe it comes with age,
>> but I try not to let it dominate my view of things. I'm all for
>> helping out those less fortunate than me, but I don't claim to know
>> how to do it, and I don't trust those in power to come up with a
>> solution either, especially one that they could agree on given the
>> increasing polarization.
>
> Imagine the scenario in which your present pension and health coverage
> both are suddenly taken away by political zealots. Then get back to me.
> Oh, I forgot to mention, there are people in both the U.S. government and
> *your* state legislature who are wetting their pants to bring that very
> scenario about. And that doesn't include all the citizens who hate your
> guts after being whipped into a lather by radio talkers.
I'm afraid I can't imagine a scenario where my federal pension and health
coverage will suddenly be taken away. And I doubt that my Virginia reps
would dare propose or support that unless they had a political death wish.
I *can* envision a scenario where I may have to pay significantly more for
my health care than I do now in order to subsidize those 47 million
uninsured.
I haven't run into anyone yet who hated my guts simply because I once was a
career federal employee, but I don't doubt there are those out there far
from Washington who would. But we all had our choice of a career direction.
Myself, I gave up a corporate career with paid health care and attractive
retirement plan in favor of a comparable job with the Fed. Tortoise and
hare, maybe, but govt retirement security may have tilted in my favor
lately, compared to many once higher paid employees who have received
unexpected corporate "surprises".
>
>> But the thing that gripes me most is that I may not live long enough
>> to complete the set of National Park quarters. Perhaps a good
>> insurance plan will ease my mind.
>
> Well, we certainly hope that you do live long enough to accomplish that
> mission. Go ahead, buy that Dansco and start filling it. You'll be glad
> you did!
>
It'll be my luck that I'd croak about the time the U. S. Virgin Islands Salt
River Bay National Historic Park and Ecological Preserve quarter is issued.
I wonder if they'll be putting all that stuff on the quarter in addition to
a scene of some kind. I also wonder if I'll care. I guess I'll stay with
the old coppers for now, saving a couple aside for my eyes.
Mr. Jaggers
[snip-cutting to the chase]
> It'll be my luck that I'd croak about the time the U. S. Virgin
> Islands Salt River Bay National Historic Park and Ecological Preserve
> quarter is issued. I wonder if they'll be putting all that stuff on
> the quarter in addition to a scene of some kind. I also wonder if
> I'll care. I guess I'll stay with the old coppers for now, saving a
> couple aside for my eyes.
Heh. I wonder how many readers here get the point made in those last seven
words.
In fact, all those who do get it, signify by making an "I get it" post
below. Not a contest, no prize, just the smug satisfaction of knowing.
James the Riddler
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h9l6d...@enews2.newsguy.com...
...
IOW, yep, the problem of distrust of government extends well beyond
the health care issue.
Some 10 years ago I did UseNet battle with a motor-mouth, egomanaical
anarchist/libertarian who ranted that he wanted da evil gubment gone.
Period. In all forms. He claimed he could get along - in fact, WAS
getting along - just fine without it, and those who couldn't do the
same were leeches that deserved whatever fate awaited them. In his
little universe, all taxes were just the have-nots forcibly
confiscating his property for their own benefit and only their own
benefit... period.
His subsistence job was as an audio technician/roadie for rock bands.
All attempts to point out how his life and work benefited from
government were dismissed with "No, you don't understand why that's
pure bullshit and doesn't violate my principles." From the roads and
safe forms of transport he used to get to his gigs, to the regulation
of the airwaves that played his employers' music so that people would
pay admission to their concerts and therefore pay his salary, to the
safety of the food and drugs he consumes (well, some of them,
anyway)... he would come to no harm if all forms of government were to
disappear overnight. He truly believed that human nature was such
that through a combination of Randian greed and enlightened
self-interest, all of these services and projects and protections -
even national defense - would arise spontaneously once the masses were
freed from all the chains of government. And he had the nerve to say
that our reliance on government was a childish parental fantasy rooted
in a childish notion of the universe! If you want to apply the
filters of psychodynamics to this issue, IMO his views were stuck in
the developmental stage of adolescent rejection of all authority...
period.
My point here is that this same immature, extremist rejection of
government "period!" seems to have crept into much of our citizens'
views and national discourse. It reflects the long-term effects of
the "take no prisoners" partisan politics ushered in by the Newt
Gingrich crowd and relentlessy pursued for the past two decades.
Their basic premise is that government is bad, period. The ranting at
town meetings and rallies and in the media over specific public policy
issues is proof that Johnny Carson's advice to comedians also extends
to politics: "If they buy the premise, they buy the bit."
> As far as that slogan you quoted, I have a poster of a gnarled,
> grisly old cowboy uttering that same thought. Wouldn't we all like
> to go back and do some things over that were just plain stupid
> unhealthy. But we can't. Many of us in this very forum would not
> be here, save for medical advances. Some have certainly already
> perished as the result of not having access to those advances.
> Sure, we will all eventually succomb, but how many of these
> naysayers will volunteer themselves to go first, instead of always
> volunteering some less fortunate person to go first?
Hey, isn't that what the Death Panels are supposed to accomplish for
us?
> I've seen more hypocrisy in my last 5 years than I saw in the
> half-century plus years that preceded them, and it gets more
> sickening by the day.
I suspect that like so many things about human nature and behavior,
the only thing that has really changed is that the proliferation of
the Internet and other communications technologies is exposing us to
more and more of what goes on every day in the normal course of
events. That, plus the fact that simple population growth means that
more of everything happens even if the incidence rates remain the
same.
- mazorj, Driving the Internet Highway at 25 mph with My Left-Turn
Signal Blinking
# # #
"I once went to a fortune teller who gave Swedish massages while she
foretold my future. When I asked her why, she smiled and said 'Haven't
you heard? The medium is the massage."
Bill Krummel
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h9l6d...@enews2.newsguy.com...
A lot of good comments about health care and the need for health reform but
I wish one ultimate outcome of a reform and the debate leading to reform
would be a change in the general attitude of a possibly sizeable segment of
the US population.
Many of my acquaintances range from downright poor to lower middle class and
do not provide for their own health care, whether by out-of-pocket payment
or by health insurance premium.
I am not smart enough to know what created this situation or how to make
improvements to it but I have become aware of common threads that I seem to
find in the thinking of these friends/acquaintances. Hopefully, one example
will illustrate these common threads. A young man, at the time just weeks
from graduating high school and with intentions of attending college, told
me his plans for leaving the home of his parents and living with two
friends, sharing living expenses. I expressed some dismay, considering his
intent for higher education and the difficulties he would bring upon himself
by trying to make his own way while educating himself ( an accomplishment
that I do hear happens with many legal immigrants, but one that i don't see
often among those who have grown up in America). My young friend assured me
that he had worked the budget and could afford his share of the rent, car
expenses, groceries and the miscellaneous such as clothing, laundry,
toiletries, etc. I asked if he had his health care covered and his reply
was no, but no worries he would not get sick.
The truth is, many among us will budget everything under the sun from
payments on entertainment centers to weekly beer inventory and bowling
league expenses, but expect someone/something will provide if the physical
well-being is at risk.
Along with badly needed health care reform, we need to change/reform some
attitudes.
Bill
P.S. I have posted off topic before but I do try to stay out of political
or religious arguments, partially because I am not good at expressing
myself. I still collect classic commemorative half dollars but I have not
added to my collection in all of 2009 because I am speculating on the lowest
mintage spousal gold and have tied up my coin hobby money on purchasing gold
coins.
Mr. Jaggers
The people in question have not likely ever read the Constitution, Marx,
Orwell, or the Bible to any significant extent, but always know someone who
has, and that automatically qualifies them to comment extensively on any
topic you care to name. In general, I find that the less thoroughly they
have read from those sources, the louder and more shrill they are.
> Some 10 years ago I did UseNet battle with a motor-mouth, egomanaical
> anarchist/libertarian who ranted that he wanted da evil gubment gone.
> Period. In all forms. He claimed he could get along - in fact, WAS
> getting along - just fine without it, and those who couldn't do the
> same were leeches that deserved whatever fate awaited them. In his
> little universe, all taxes were just the have-nots forcibly
> confiscating his property for their own benefit and only their own
> benefit... period.
Stick around, he'll be posting here soon, I can just feel it coming.
> His subsistence job was as an audio technician/roadie for rock bands.
> All attempts to point out how his life and work benefited from
> government were dismissed with "No, you don't understand why that's
> pure bullshit and doesn't violate my principles." From the roads and
> safe forms of transport he used to get to his gigs, to the regulation
> of the airwaves that played his employers' music so that people would
> pay admission to their concerts and therefore pay his salary, to the
> safety of the food and drugs he consumes (well, some of them,
> anyway)... he would come to no harm if all forms of government were to
> disappear overnight. He truly believed that human nature was such
> that through a combination of Randian greed and enlightened
> self-interest, all of these services and projects and protections -
> even national defense - would arise spontaneously once the masses were
> freed from all the chains of government. And he had the nerve to say
> that our reliance on government was a childish parental fantasy rooted
> in a childish notion of the universe! If you want to apply the
> filters of psychodynamics to this issue, IMO his views were stuck in
> the developmental stage of adolescent rejection of all authority...
> period.
I sure hope he isn't a graduate of the high school where I taught all those
years.
> My point here is that this same immature, extremist rejection of
> government "period!" seems to have crept into much of our citizens'
> views and national discourse. It reflects the long-term effects of
> the "take no prisoners" partisan politics ushered in by the Newt
> Gingrich crowd and relentlessy pursued for the past two decades.
> Their basic premise is that government is bad, period. The ranting at
> town meetings and rallies and in the media over specific public policy
> issues is proof that Johnny Carson's advice to comedians also extends
> to politics: "If they buy the premise, they buy the bit."
I wonder who could have put those notions into their heads. Could it
be...SATAN?
[picture James in drag, doing Kegel exercises to the tune of "Louie, Louie"]
>> As far as that slogan you quoted, I have a poster of a gnarled,
>> grisly old cowboy uttering that same thought. Wouldn't we all like
>> to go back and do some things over that were just plain stupid
>> unhealthy. But we can't. Many of us in this very forum would not
>> be here, save for medical advances. Some have certainly already
>> perished as the result of not having access to those advances.
>> Sure, we will all eventually succomb, but how many of these
>> naysayers will volunteer themselves to go first, instead of always
>> volunteering some less fortunate person to go first?
>
> Hey, isn't that what the Death Panels are supposed to accomplish for
> us?
That's precisely why they're so afraid. They know the politicians will
snuff every third constituent that comes into their offices, and the first
two just left.
>> I've seen more hypocrisy in my last 5 years than I saw in the
>> half-century plus years that preceded them, and it gets more
>> sickening by the day.
>
> I suspect that like so many things about human nature and behavior,
> the only thing that has really changed is that the proliferation of
> the Internet and other communications technologies is exposing us to
> more and more of what goes on every day in the normal course of
> events. That, plus the fact that simple population growth means that
> more of everything happens even if the incidence rates remain the
> same.
One of my best friends, a Libertarian, works behind a desk and is allowed to
listen to talk radio in headphones the whole time. Long ago I helped get
him his job, in fact.
He spends his entire day tuned to RL and SH. It certainly shows. I can't
talk to him anymore. He wasn't like that back when.
> - mazorj, Driving the Internet Highway at 25 mph with My Left-Turn
> Signal Blinking
> # # #
> "I once went to a fortune teller who gave Swedish massages while she
> foretold my future. When I asked her why, she smiled and said 'Haven't
> you heard? The medium is the massage."
James, Retching
Mr. Jaggers
Stop selling yourself so short, you acquitted yourself quite handily in your
post above.
Well, I'm awfully old, and my Sainted Mother once conveyed to me the receipt
for all the medical services she received at the time of my birth, including
hospital. Cost, $65 for everything. Notice the absence of the letter k
after that figure. When I was a teenager, a visit to the medecine man cost
$5. Once I was out on my own and had no-paperwork-required health coverage,
I completely lost track of the dollar equivalent of the services I used. It
was a shock when I got my first COB statement and learned that my doctor
visits were costing *somebody* over a hundred bucks a throw, and the lab
that went with each one amounted to half a grand. I suspect that many
people have yet to experience this type of epiphany, so they hardly know how
much to sock away in case of a downturn in fortune. And these days, that
can mean the same thing as their parents experienced for other reasons in
1932.
As far as your numismatic expenditures go, collect whatever pleases you.
That's what the hobby is all about.
James the Civil War Token Freak
Bill Krummel
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
> Bill Krummel wrote:
>> Bill
>>
>> P.S. I have posted off topic before but I do try to stay out of
>> political or religious arguments, partially because I am not good at
>> expressing myself. I still collect classic commemorative half
>> dollars but I have not added to my collection in all of 2009 because
>> I am speculating on the lowest mintage spousal gold and have tied up
>> my coin hobby money on purchasing gold coins.
snipped
> As far as your numismatic expenditures go, collect whatever pleases you.
> That's what the hobby is all about.
>
> James the Civil War Token Freak
I do collect what pleases me and always have. However I do not consider
what I have done in 2009 as collecting. Nor do I consider it investing. I
am speculating in gold coin, hoping for something similar to the record of
the Jackie Robinson gold coin although not at all hopeful for that type of
home run in escalated price. Were I to have any kind of success, whether
modest or wildly so, I would use my profits to aid my coin collecting.
James, I do have several CWTs and used to have more. I sold most of the
common, circulated/corroded ones at the local coin club auctions and have
kept two common but uncirculated ones and maybe one or two that are not so
common and a little unusual. I bought one CWT at an auction that had nice
original luster showing through the darkly toned brown and was very pleased
with my $10 win but less so when a friend pointed out an area on the reverse
at 6 o'clock where a drill bit had had a start. Not so noticeable on the
darkened coin but very obvious when you do notice it. I still like the CWT
but not quite as much. I do wonder why someone changed their mind just at
that point (pun not intended but I do see it now).
Bill
Mr. Jaggers
Very early in my return to collecting I ordered an 1877 Indian cent from a
PNG dealer out of his ad in The Numismatist. Imagine my horror when I saw,
beneath the wreath, an attempted hole. It hadn't gone all the way through,
but I certainly remembered from my high school days how impossible it is to
ever liquidate something like that, so sent it back, grrr........
I imagine that as the hole expanded to be the full diameter of the bit, the
drilling may have gotten too difficult to continue. Just a guess.
CWTs appear to be still in the early stages of research, despite all that
has been done by the Guttag Bros. and the Fulds. That's part of what makes
them so fascinating. I wish there were a specialized discussion board
having to do with both the patriotics and the store cards.
James the Exonumist
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
> mazorj wrote:
...
>> - mazorj, Driving the Internet Highway at 25 mph with My Left-Turn
>> Signal Blinking
>> # # #
>> "I once went to a fortune teller who gave Swedish massages while she
>> foretold my future. When I asked her why, she smiled and said 'Haven't
>> you heard? The medium is the massage."
>
> James, Retching
At my pun, or at the general condition of things?
Please say it's the latter, even if it's not. A groan is the proper and
obligatory response to a pun. Retching and kvetching is acceptable
commentary in the national discourse.
- mazorj the Opunionated
Nick Knight
>[time for some major snippage]
Thanks you. Please feel free to be more aggressive here. You ARE allowed
to snip more than a single tag line. Basic Nettiquette, however lost it may
seem today, dictates much much more. But it's a start.
Thanks again.
Nick
sgt23
Then why not limit politicians to one term in office so politics do
not get in the way and then maybe they will be able to make rational
decision. Then we should make it illegal too take any bribes from
lobbyist and the such. Maybe our politicians need baby setter too
watch they're every move?
Mr. Jaggers
Actually, what you said was two-thirds of a PUN. 8>)
OK, it's the latter.
James the Accommodating
Mr. Jaggers
If a politician isn't rational to begin with, term limits will not make him
so.
Lobbyists can play a positive role or a negative one, depending on your own
point of view. There are likely to be benefits of one kind or another that
you yourself enjoy as the result of lobbyist activity, and you might regret
making that wish. As far as the babysitters are concerned, the media are
supposed to be the watchdogs of the government.
James
sgt23
Then the question becomes how do you know who too trust and do you
need to know when to trust them? I agree that lobbying can be good,
but when it works for people and not just for a company, corporation,
or whatever other entity. And about the media, we both know they pick
sides now, so should we now look at the media as possible lobbyists?
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
<<snips>>
>>
>> Then why not limit politicians to one term in office so politics do
>> not get in the way and then maybe they will be able to make rational
>> decision. Then we should make it illegal too take any bribes from
>> lobbyist and the such. Maybe our politicians need baby setter too
>> watch they're every move?
>
> If a politician isn't rational to begin with, term limits will not make
> him so.
>
> Lobbyists can play a positive role or a negative one, depending on your
> own point of view. There are likely to be benefits of one kind or another
> that you yourself enjoy as the result of lobbyist activity, and you might
> regret making that wish. As far as the babysitters are concerned, the
> media are supposed to be the watchdogs of the government.
>
> James
Ah, for a lobbyist with an open mind who doesn't fear for his job.
Bruce Remick
"Bill Krummel" <dqu...@netins.net> wrote in message
news:h9lf0q$jkl$1...@news.netins.net...
Those classic commemoratives seem to be pretty "quiet" lately. Has this
provided the opportunity to fill empty holes at lower prices? I don't
collect them, but they do appear to have dropped off the radar screen lately
in discussions.
Mr. Jaggers
In the immortal words of Fox Mulder: "Trust No One."
James the X-Filer
Mr. Jaggers
I'd rather have a politician with those qualities.
James the Pragmatist
Mr. Jaggers
When the market tanked last year I was able to purchase what I needed to
complete my set at less than "book" prices. The last coin I needed was the
New Rochelle, and I found that in a PCGS rattler at the EAC convention
earlier this year.
James the Opportunist
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
In my own never-ending knee-jerk method of collecting, I developed an
interest in collecting the varieties of patriotic CWT's that feature the
Indian on obverse and NOT ONE CENT on reverse. The more the Indian
resembles the one on the US Indian Head cent, the better I like it. As this
interest fades, another will typically take its place. The thing is, I
never get rid of my past acquisitions.
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Then I believe you would have an oxymoron rather than a politician, no
insult to morons intended.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mr. Mazor, I myself have wondered about those leg stents.
And, now that I have a grand total of five artery stents, I wonder
about the airport metal detectors. I haven't flown anywhere since the
first three stents were placed in 11/2008. I do carry the card(s)
which you describe.
I am impious in medicine and went for another stress test last fall
because of random pains combined with the approach of my fiftieth
birthday.
One certainly sees quite a few young coin dealers (and other
prosperous businessmen) die suddenly about age 45 to 50. As near as I
can tell, there just isn't anything to fear from anything cardiac-
related that isn't open heart surgery (and they are making that
constantly less invasive). If you need to, a person should go get
help.
oly
Bill Krummel
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:7Oxvm.72731$4t6....@newsfe06.iad...
Bruce, I haven't a clue as to where classic half prices have gone the last
12 months. I try to add several every year to my collection but have no
additions yet in 09, nor even looked, and with Christmas around the corner,
I may not have the finances to bother looking until 2010.
Bill
sgt23
Do you believe this too have something to with chemicals that might
have been used in the past to polish or clean coins. I'm not saying
your coins are cleaned or anything, but just a thought...
som...@some.domain
>On Sep 26, 9:29=A0pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 26, 8:14=A0am, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>..
>> > On Sep 25, 9:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
>>
>> > ...
>>
>> > > > There are many good things today IF you can pay the freight or get
>rt
>> > > > again earlier this week (two more stents on Wednesday AM and I walk=
>ed
>> > > > out of the hospital on my own less than 30 hours later) and forty
>> > > > years ago I probably would have had a heart attack or two by now.
>>
>> > > Three cheers for the team that made you whole again!
>>
>rt,
>> > > but
>> > > only as the result of your access to it. Now that you have been spare=
>d and
>> > > live on, I hope you will gain an appreciation for what the President =
>is
>> > > trying to accomplish in health care reform. I have heard all I can
>> > > tolerate
>> > > from the smug who have health coverage toward those who have it not.
>>
>> > > James- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> > <
>> > I am lucky enough and my stent placer is one of the very best to be
>> > found anywhere - and sadly, there will have to be a lot fewer pork
>> > products and fried chicken in my future.
>>
>> > As for the politics - you know me, I am a deeply cynical Republican
>> > operative who prefers the traditional center & right-wing folks in the
>> > wanting the traditional WASPs and their fellow travelers in the
>n more.
>>
>> > If the GOP had any political sense (and they don't seem to have much
>> > electoral sense at the top at this moment), they would advocate
>> > "Medicare for Everyone" (well, not for people who are in the country
>> > illegally) and throw the health insurance/HMO/ Health Maintenance
>> > industry bastards wholesale to the wolves.
>>
>> > My midwestern populist sense is that "Medicare for Everyone" is what
>> > "National Health Service", MOL. =A0I say give it to 'em.
>>
>> > But this go around, I also believe that Mr. Obama isn't going to get
>> > locked-up and the USA is pissing away mucho dinero elsewhere with two
>> > between guns and butter, so I don't think he's gonna get a lot of
>> > butter this year or next (and then there is the less than one year-old
>> > "No-fault Wall Street 12 trillion dollar Monster Bailout" which he
>> > didn't make but that he won't repudiate either).
>>
>> > If you ever have a heart complaint, get in to the doctor right away.
>> > my cousins has had rather more severe problems than me, and his view
>> > is that "the decision to get help is the hardest part - after you make
>> > cardiologist for the first time until after you've had that first
>> > heart attack.
>>
>> > oly
>> > The Deeply Cynical
>=3D=3D=3D
>>
>> > Thank you, gentlemen, this arguably is the best single exchange I've se=
>en
>> > here on health care.
>>
> care
>> > is not surprising. =A0'Twas ever thus. =A0What totally mystifies me is =
>that once
>> > again, the have-not's have been bamboozled by the have's into ignorantl=
>y
>> > opposing something that benefits them the most. =A0I fully expect to se=
>e
>> > industry operatives at work opposing it. =A0What breaks my heart is see=
>ing
>> > ordinarily sensible people yelling and screaming out against the first =
>major
>> > initiative to improve their lives and the overall welfare of our nation
>rts to
>> > solve a problem in his or her life, we usually find some underlying neu=
>rosis
>> > and label the behavior as pathological. =A0When a mob does the same thi=
>ng...
>> > in this case I think it comes damnably close to qualifying as a lynchin=
>g
>> > party. =A0Read whatever you want into that trope and how it relates to =
>our
>> > first black president; but the bottom line is that it is us who not onl=
>y are
>> > Pogo's met enemy - we are the real victims of our health care witch hun=
>t.
>>
>> > oly, this was the most rational statement of your views that I've seen
>k or so
>> > I've been nodding and smiling in agreement at most of your posts!) =A0Y=
>ou
>> > nailed it perfectly with your take on the health plan proposals. =A0We =
>and
>> > everyone else will disagree on the details, but the people - voters! -
>ht
>> > between a rock and a hard economic downturn, plus the legacy costs of h=
>is
>> > predecessor's actions, plus the extraordinary ambitiousness of his own
>m
>> > both sides. =A0I remain hopeful, but not nearly as optimistic as I was =
>a year
>> > ago.
>>
>> > Likewise, congrats on your medical procedures. =A0I had a heart attack =
>in
>> > 1992, a 4-way by-pass in 1996. =A0After 13 years of living on time borr=
>owed
>> > through medical miracles, last February I got the heart stent. =A0In Ap=
>ril it
>> > was 3 stents, 16 inches total, in one leg and the two descending arteri=
>es.
>> > I will go back to do the other leg. =A0Ten years ago, leg stenting was =
>pretty
>> > much unheard of. =A0Now it's an out-patient procedure. =A0Hell, they ev=
>en gave
>> > me a wallet card from my doctor documenting the stents because security
>ne.
>>
>> > And as living proof, I say "Right on!" to your advice about taking care=
> of
>> > yourself, especially the pumping station. =A0There is grief in waiting,=
> and a
>> > helluva lot of of relief in just taking that first step. =A0You people =
>out
>> > there in your 20s and 30s and 40s, listen up to us old farts. =A0To quo=
>te a
>> > 1960's tee-shirt slogan that I now wish I had listened to back when I s=
>till
>> > didn't quite believe in my own mortality, "If I had known I was going t=
>o
>> > live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself."
>>
> be.
>> > Given all that medical science has done for me, any day that I wake up =
>and
>> > they aren't shoveling dirt in my face is a good one. =A0I'll take that =
>over
>> > 30-cent gas and the "Happy Days" culture any day.
>>
>> > - mazorj the Gratitudinous- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Mr. Mazor, I myself have wondered about those leg stents.
>>
>> And, now that I have a grand total of five artery stents, I wonder
>> first three stents were placed in 11/2008. =A0I do carry the card(s)
>> which you describe.
>>
>> I am impious in medicine and went for another stress test last fall
>> because of random pains combined with the approach of my fiftieth
>> birthday.
>>
>> One certainly sees quite a few young coin dealers (and other
>> can tell, there just isn't anything to fear from anything cardiac-
>> related that isn't open heart surgery (and they are making that
>> help.
>>
>> oly
>
>Do you believe this too have something to with chemicals that might
>have been used in the past to polish or clean coins. I'm not saying
>your coins are cleaned or anything, but just a thought...
wow, i've been strait edge since 82 and never had any heart troubles.
had one of those cameras stuck in to look and no plaque, either.
i am glad science keeps my friends around....
mazorj
...
Mr. Mazor, I myself have wondered about those leg stents.
And, now that I have a grand total of five artery stents, I wonder
about the airport metal detectors. I haven't flown anywhere since the
first three stents were placed in 11/2008. I do carry the card(s)
which you describe.
I am impious in medicine and went for another stress test last fall
because of random pains combined with the approach of my fiftieth
birthday.
One certainly sees quite a few young coin dealers (and other
prosperous businessmen) die suddenly about age 45 to 50. As near as I
can tell, there just isn't anything to fear from anything cardiac-
related that isn't open heart surgery (and they are making that
constantly less invasive). If you need to, a person should go get help.
oly
=================
My parents' generation feared going in the hospital because very often that
was where people went to die. In this day and age, there's every good
reason to get thee to a hospital for the life-saving and life-extending
miracles they routinely perform now - *before* you start having chest pains.
Fifty years ago any young man who was moderately overweight ("husky" was the
term) sporting a beefy red face and complexion while eating a steady diet of
red meat was considered by most to be the perfect picture of well-nourished
health. Now, whenever I see one, I want to give him a dope slap and the
name of my cardiologist.
Jerry Dennis
wrote:
George Harrison gave the clue in the song, "Taxman." Obviously, I get
it.
Jerry
Child of the 60s.
Jerry Dennis
<HUGE amount of snippage>>
> Then why not limit politicians to one term in office so politics do
> not get in the way and then maybe they will be able to make rational
> decision. Then we should make it illegal too take any bribes from
> lobbyist and the such. Maybe our politicians need baby setter too
> watch they're every move?
Sadly, a one term congressional term wouldn't work. Nothing would get
done. Wait a minute, maybe that's not a bad idea. One-term limits.
Let's think about this. One term, nothing gets done, ergo, nothing
gets damaged. Since nothing gets done, the side benefit is that we
won't need Congress. No Congress, HUGE tax savings since the great
majority of the Legislative Branch would fold. One-term limits.
Interesting.
Seriously, there was a discussion in my High School Civics class
(during the Nixon presidency) about term limits. The thought was two
terms for senators, increase representatives terms to three years and
limit them to four terms. That way, no politician would end up being
a Ted Kennedy or Phil Grahm, namely a political lifer that couldn't
survive doing a real job in the real world. Imagine, having to
actually WORK for a living and them pay the taxes on the bills they
passed.
Jerry the Ponderer