Cliff Mishler
Jud
the board. I am sure more details will follow.
oly
> ANA new President is Cliff Mishler. Alan Herbert was not re-elected to
> the board. I am sure more details will follow.
I am very pleased to hear about Mr. Mishler. Tremendous
congratulations to Cliff!!!
oly
oly
Results:
http://www.money.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=14767
I hope that the link works.
oly
Ken Barr
> ANA new President is Cliff Mishler. Alan Herbert was not re-elected to
> the board. I am sure more details will follow.
And here they are ... filched directly from the ANA Prezz Releaze ...
CLIFFORD MISHLER ELECTED ANA PRESIDENT
2009 Board of Governors to be Installed in Los Angeles
Clifford Mishler has been elected the 56th President of the American
Numismatic Association, ANA Executive Director Larry Shepherd
announced today.
Mishler received 5,047 votes compared with 3,213 for current ANA Vice
President Patricia A. Jagger Finner. Thomas G. Hallenbeck, who ran
unopposed, was elected Vice President. Incumbents Chester L. Krause,
Joseph E. Boling, Walter Ostromecki Jr., and Wendell Wolka were re-
elected along with Board newcomers Scott T. Rottinghaus, J.P. Martin
and Jeff C. Garrett.
BiggsKofford, independent auditing firm for the American Numismatic
Association 2009 Board of Governors' election, counted the ballots and
reported the following vote tallies:
For President Votes
Clifford Mishler 5,047
Iola, WI
Patricia A. Jagger Finner 3,213
Iola, WI
For Vice President
Thomas G. Hallenbeck 1*
Colorado Springs, CO
Successful Candidates for Governor Votes
Chester L. Krause 5,845
Iola, WI
Joseph E. Boling 4,730
Indianapolis, IN
Walter A. Ostromecki 4,453
Panorama City, CA
Scott T. Rottinghaus 4,339
New London, CT
Wendell A. Wolka 4,179
Greenwood, IN
J.P. Martin 4,066
Englewood, CO
Jeff C. Garrett 3,781
Lexington, KY
Unsuccessful Candidates for Governor Votes
Alan Herbert 3,613
Belle Fourche, SD
Michael L. Ellis 3,111
Virginia Beach, VA
Jeffrey Swindling 2,703
Jacksonville, FL
Thomas A. Palmer, Jr. 2,627
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Paul Hollis 2,498
Mandeville, LA
Brian E. Fanton 2,335
Hiawatha, IA
Michael S. Turrini 1,961
Vallejo, CA
New officers will be installed during the annual ANA Awards Banquet,
Saturday, Aug. 8, at the World's Fair of Money® in Los Angeles.
Overall, 8,479 ballots were returned in the 2009 election, compared
with 7,171 in 2007. Of all ballots cast, 44 were rejected compared
with 505 in 2007. The ANA mailed 29,299 ballots, one to each
Association member who was eligible to vote on May 15, 2009.
All Board candidates were informed of the election results during a
conference telephone call at 12:30 p.m. Mountain Standard Time,
Thursday, July 2.
Mike Marotta
8,000 votes
Decisions are made by those who show up.
My horses all came in. If it were not Cliff Mishler, I would have
voted for Patti Finner. She works hard for the hobby at the nuts and
bolts that people take for granted. That kind of performance often
does not win friends and too often is repaid with animosity from
people who do not receive deference for their self-ascribed status.
Now that this election is behind us, I look forward to her presidency
in the next board cycle.
Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"What you can measure you can improve."
dorancoins
> the board. I am sure more details will follow.
I'm glad that Cliff won, and also glad that Finner was defeated. As
far as Herbert, his ties to Cipoletti and the old regime of Bill
Horton is exactly why he didn't get re-elected. But there is one
board member who should've been defeated but wasn't (probably because
he had "dead people from Indiana" vote for him) - Wendell Wolka, who
is one of Finner's stooges (alongside Herbert).
dorancoins
Why would you waste your vote on Finner? Seriously, she ran a totally
half-assed campaign and having Bill Horton speak for her during the
Candidates Forum at Portland this past March wasn't much of a smart
move either. She reeks of the Horton regime and her ties with
Cipoletti (who will soon be on his way to the pokey). If she runs
again, I will make sure she gets defeated! While on the subject of
Finner, she should seriously consider resigning as President of
Central States since she is ramming that organization into the
ground. I dropped my Central States membership after 15 years because
of her.
Mr. Jaggers
How, exactly, would that have happened, given the nature of the ballotting
and canvassing?
James the Election Judge
Mr. Jaggers
Resigning one's membership in an organization cements his own
ineffectiveness in bringing about positive change within that organization.
And how, exactly, does one "make sure" someone gets defeated, especially if
he now has no vote? I can think of only one way.
James the Macabre
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h2kaa...@enews5.newsguy.com...
And how exactly will the results of this particular election effect the
average collector's enjoyment of the coin collecting hobby? The
name-calling and bitterness it seems to have generated remind me of some
homeowners' association meetings where residents come close to blows over
who should be elected vice president. Don't we already have enough
controversial local and national politics to angst over?
Charles Edwards
I'm glad that Cliff won, and also glad that Finner was defeated. As
far as Herbert, his ties to Cipoletti and the old regime of Bill
Horton is exactly why he didn't get re-elected. But there is one
board member who should've been defeated but wasn't (probably because
he had "dead people from Indiana" vote for him) - Wendell Wolka, who
is one of Finner's stooges (alongside Herbert).
***********
Forget to take your meds? Doran "forgets" to mention that he ran for
the CSNS Board and was soundly defeated.
Chas. Edwards
dorancoins
I did ran for a seat on the boards of both the ANA and CSNS but did
not win. I was not bitter about the ANA election in 2007 because,
simply, my feeling was that as long as the new governors are not part
of the Bill Horton/Chris Cipoletti regime that the ANA can get the
much-needed reform that it needs. CSNS is a whole different matter,
as I come to find out. I lost because the "good ol'boys" are afraid
that a reform-minded person like me would question everything they
do. The fact of the matter is that I would not hesitate to question
what the board does, as I have been told by past board members of some
of the shananigans that goes on. CSNS is another organization that
needs to rid itself of the cronyism but as long as the "good'ol boys"
have control, that will never happen.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
There is politics in everything, even at Church. Mrs. Finner is
intelligent, very extremely hard-working and a fine woman; but thank
goodness Cliff won. He is a numismatist's numismatist, a prince of
our hobby. Our hobby wouldn't be one-half as well informed as it is
today without the life work of Messrs. Krause and Mishler.
oly
dorancoins
>
> - Show quoted text -
How can one bring positive change to an organization when the powers-
that-be resist it, even if such change has good intentions? The
majority of the CSNS board (including Finner) are like ostriches with
their heads buried in the sand. This organization is way more
clinging to its ways than the ANA. As far as I'm concerned, CSNS is
one of the most corrupt numismatic organizations in the hobby but no
one on its board has the guts to admit it.
Bob F.
"dorancoins" <doran...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:17bc0e37-ee1f-4089...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You appear to be an even bigger crybaby than our own Francine
Probablysick.
dorancoins
>
> - Show quoted text -
I must concur with your statements about Mishler and Krause, oly, but
not about Finner. In fact, she is nothing but a rude, abrasive, ego-
centric blowhard who thinks she is better than everyone else. Have
you ever been verbally attacked by her? I've been attacked by her,
and so have others. She has made lots of enemies, especially here in
Illinois.
dorancoins
> "dorancoins" <doranco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Now what the f--k, a crybaby? I am just stating fact but it seems
that you, like others, have no clue on the inner workings of these
organizations.
Mr. Jaggers
Try as I will, I can't seem to find where you've addressed either of my
points.
James the Persistent
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike, I spent several ILNA conventions around the year 2000 MOL
working for Mrs. Finner. You never have to guess what she wants or
how high she wants you to jump. But in real life, it's people like
that who make businesses and government and things like coin
conventions tick.
Besides, I like the perfume she uses.
oly
PC
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:0Vm3m.7292$DA1....@newsfe25.iad...
>
> And how exactly will the results of this particular election effect the
> average collector's enjoyment of the coin collecting hobby? The
> name-calling and bitterness it seems to have generated remind me of some
> homeowners' association meetings where residents come close to blows over
> who should be elected vice president. Don't we already have enough
> controversial local and national politics to angst over?
>
I have no idea who any of these people are or what they have or have not
done. Reading this thread, it all sounds very silly.
Mr. Jaggers
Name one organization that is *not* awash in an excess of hormones.
James the Pugnacious
Mr. Jaggers
Can we talk confessions here?
James the Lurid
Mr. Jaggers
How so? The Central States show is arguably one of the top ten largest in
the country, and the organization that runs it is quite significant.
James the Attendee
Charles Edwards
I did ran for a seat on the boards of both the ANA and CSNS but did
not win. I was not bitter about the ANA election in 2007 because,
simply, my feeling was that as long as the new governors are not part
of the Bill Horton/Chris Cipoletti regime that the ANA can get the
much-needed reform that it needs. CSNS is a whole different matter,
as I come to find out. I lost because the "good ol'boys" are afraid
that a reform-minded person like me would question everything they
do. The fact of the matter is that I would not hesitate to question
what the board does, as I have been told by past board members of
some
of the shananigans that goes on. CSNS is another organization that
needs to rid itself of the cronyism but as long as the "good'ol boys"
have control, that will never happen.
*************
No, you lost because you engaged in name-calling rather than a
reasoned campaign for the CSNS Board seat.
Chas. Edwards
dorancoins
Are you f--king stupid? In the 3 times that I ran for the CSNS Board
not once did I resort to name-calling - where did you come up with
this bulls--t?
oly
The only recent fault that I know of with Central States is that
Bourse chairman Jerry Lebo kept taking their conventions back to the
older, high density downtown locations that were most expensive for
hotels and parking, that were no longer popular with the local
(suburban) crowd of collectors, and that were in "perceived-to-be"
higher crime areas. Now that the torch has passed to a younger man,
this problem should subside - though contracts for conventions are
signed years in advance and take time to make changes to locations.
oly
Charles Edwards
How can one bring positive change to an organization when the powers-
that-be resist it, even if such change has good intentions? The
majority of the CSNS board (including Finner) are like ostriches with
their heads buried in the sand. This organization is way more
clinging to its ways than the ANA. As far as I'm concerned, CSNS is
one of the most corrupt numismatic organizations in the hobby but no
one on its board has the guts to admit it.
********************
Mr. Doran has charged corruption in the CSNS organization. I suggest
he back up his accusations with detailed proof and not just his usual
hot air and name-calling.
Chas. Edwards
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
So that means what? It is impossible for someone to not have heard of
them? That I should be instantly tuned in to the politics of the situation?
Charles Edwards
Are you f--king stupid? In the 3 times that I ran for the CSNS Board
not once did I resort to name-calling - where did you come up with
this bulls--t?
**********
Simple. By reading the nonsense you posted on the PCGS forum.
Chas. Edwards
Bruce Remick
___________
Why should the average coin collector give a darn about what goes on in the
inner workings of those organizations? Maybe if you weren't be so focused
on petty politics, you'd remember how enjoyable this hobby can be.
Bruce Remick
_______________
Just from reading the tone of your reply here, I wouldn't vote for you for
any office.
Mr. Jaggers
2010 downtown Milwaukee [sigh], 2011 Rosemont [pffffft], but *then* several
years in a row at the outstanding Schaumburg Convention Center.
Back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back home runs, in my book.
James the Scorekeeper
Mr. Jaggers
Inform yourself about CSNS or not, tune in or tune out at your pleasure,
that's your business, but you're calling a topic "silly" which, by your own
admission, you know nothing about.
James the Participant
PC
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5690d5ab-8bdb-4cb9...@g1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Mike, I spent several ILNA conventions around the year 2000 MOL
working for Mrs. Finner. You never have to guess what she wants or
how high she wants you to jump.
She must be a "half-breed" or a "gay liberal elite", right? They always
screw things up. Isn't that right oly?
Mr. Jaggers
Well, she *does* use a hyphenated name, and that makes her a prime suspect
for liberalism.
James Jaggers-Jagger (but no relation to Ms. Finner)
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea who any of these people are or what they have or have
>>>> not done. Reading this thread, it all sounds very silly.
>>>
>>> How so? The Central States show is arguably one of the top ten
>>> largest in the country, and the organization that runs it is quite
>>> significant.
>>
>> So that means what? It is impossible for someone to not have heard
>> of them? That I should be instantly tuned in to the politics of the
>> situation?
>
> Inform yourself about CSNS or not, tune in or tune out at your pleasure,
> that's your business, but you're calling a topic "silly" which, by your
> own admission, you know nothing about.
>
Point of clarification:
I said the political discussion in this thread SOUNDS silly. As in SEEMS TO
BE SILLY TO ME. It is right there above in the thread; I am not making this
up. That is a far cry than an absolute declaration that the political
discussion in this thread IS silly. Also, it is in no way related to the
notion that discussing the organization in and of itself is silly. Surely,
you see the difference?
I fail to see how this would be considered unusual given I know nothing
about the organization other than what you have recently informed me of.
For example, when I was in Australia I would read political news items and
it sounded just as silly to me to since I had no context.
Honestly, is this really that difficult to understand?
P.S. Sorry about calling you Shirley.
Mr. Jaggers
My oh my, I haven't undergone such a drubbing since...hey PC, you're not
related to...oh, never mind.
James the Breen (apology to Star Trek fans)
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
It seems you can't read either, PC - my coin show experiences working
for Mrs. Finner were very positive. She's not a "screw-up". She
knows how to make people and things work.
When you posted here earlier, I thought we could [possibly] get this
thread down to your level of intelligence, PC, if I asked you how your
wife's kayak instructor was doing. I was being kind to ignore my
first gut response (not to post).
So, PC, how's your wife's kayak instructor???
oly
------------------
James makes an excellent point about the hyphenated-name (often a sign
of real trouble); but Mrs. Finner was already a long-standing hobby
figure when she married Mr. R. Finner.
"If I still had all the money that I''ve spent on drink, I would spend
it all on drink" - Rawlinson
Mr. Jaggers
As for me, I spend most of my money on booze and wild women. The rest I
just waste.
James the Rake
Bob F.
No, you were stating conjecture, and in the most whining manner since
Francine came here to whine about the "vindictive individuals" who he
claims get his auctions cancelled.
I reitertate: you are a crybaby. It's small wonder that you couldn't get
elected to any post.
Now go fuck yourself.
PC
On Jul 3, 10:10 am, "PC" <P...@minneapolis.mn.us> wrote:
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5690d5ab-8bdb-4cb9...@g1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike, I spent several ILNA conventions around the year 2000 MOL
> working for Mrs. Finner. You never have to guess what she wants or
> how high she wants you to jump.
>
> She must be a "half-breed" or a "gay liberal elite", right? They always
> screw things up. Isn't that right oly?
It seems you can't read either, PC - my coin show experiences working
for Mrs. Finner were very positive. She's not a "screw-up". She
knows how to make people and things work.
>>>
But of course if she were a "half-breed" or "gay liberal elite" then it
would be different. Right?
*high ground rant deleted*
Don't try to play the high ground card now. What a freakin' joke. YOU made
those comments and YOU fail to own up to them. Dodging and trying to point
the finger at me will not change that FACT.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:278314ba-72b7-46f7...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 3, 10:10 am, "PC" <P...@minneapolis.mn.us> wrote:
>
> > "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:5690d5ab-8bdb-4cb9...@g1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Mike, I spent several ILNA conventions around the year 2000 MOL
> > working for Mrs. Finner. You never have to guess what she wants or
> > how high she wants you to jump.
>
> > She must be a "half-breed" or a "gay liberal elite", right? They always
> > screw things up. Isn't that right oly?
>
> It seems you can't read either, PC - my coin show experiences working
> for Mrs. Finner were very positive. She's not a "screw-up". She
> knows how to make people and things work.
>
>
>
> But of course if she were a "half-breed" or "gay liberal elite" then it
> would be different. Right?
>
> *high ground rant deleted*
>
> Don't try to play the high ground card now. What a freakin' joke. YOU made
> those comments and YOU fail to own up to them. Dodging and trying to point
> the finger at me will not change that FACT.
PC, I figured you would be spending this weekend at the Hennepin
County Gay Democrats Celebration for the (stolen) Election of Al
Franken to the U.S. Senate.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I seem to recollect a much more important election that was decided by a
court back in, oh, was it 2000? How is the Franken affair any different?
Either they were both "stolen" or neither one of them was "stolen."
James the Thief
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Coleman-Franken election was decided by the "popular" vote. The
Bush-Gore affair was decided by "electoral" votes. On the morning
after the election, Coleman had more popular votes and G.W. Bush had
more electoral votes.
The Founding Fathers never intended for U.S. Senators to be elected by
the popular vote, BTW. The system may have worked better when State
Legislatures picked the U.S. Senators.
oly
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h2leg...@enews5.newsguy.com...
>>
>> PC, I figured you would be spending this weekend at the Hennepin
>> County Gay Democrats Celebration for the (stolen) Election of Al
>> Franken to the U.S. Senate.
>
Yeah the election must have been run by "half breeds" and "queer elite".
Right Oly?
That is the best he has? He can only defend himself by lobbing baseless
innuendo at me? What a sad sack.
> I seem to recollect a much more important election that was decided by a
> court back in, oh, was it 2000? How is the Franken affair any different?
> Either they were both "stolen" or neither one of them was "stolen."
>
If it is anyone who is liberal or suspected of being liberal then it is
"stolen". If it is a Republican, then no matter how extreme their ideology,
the other side was a "sore loser".
I hope that clears things up.
In any event, Oly once again dodged the real issue by lobbing something
totally from outer space in relation to it.
Hey, I found a dime!
(Shameless attempt to build a facade of being on topic)
oly
PC comes up with "innuendo" - my, the subconscious is a profound truth-
teller.
You found a dime and had to bend over to pick it up??? How telling.
And how is you wife's kayak instructor???
oly
Mr. Jaggers
History handily shows that the count on the morning after is seldom complete
or accurate. The Founders wisely set up the judicial branch to deal with
questions such as election results. In this case, the court has decreed
that Franken had more popular votes than did Coleman when the counting was
done. Point � la ligne.
> The Founding Fathers never intended for U.S. Senators to be elected by
> the popular vote, BTW. The system may have worked better when State
> Legislatures picked the U.S. Senators.
IIRC it was the 17th Amendment to the Constitution that established direct
election of Senators. The Founders were afraid of the masses, hence they
established the Electoral College and made Senator choice the purview of the
State Governments, both very bad decisions on their part, IMHO. Apparently
enough state legislatures agreed with my position on Senator choice, or the
amendment would have died. I'm hoping that before I cross the Chilly River,
the state legislatures will finally put the Electoral College system out of
its, and our, misery.
James the Constitutionalist
Mr. Jaggers
> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
> news:h2leg...@enews5.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> PC, I figured you would be spending this weekend at the Hennepin
>>> County Gay Democrats Celebration for the (stolen) Election of Al
>>> Franken to the U.S. Senate.
>>
>
> Yeah the election must have been run by "half breeds" and "queer
> elite". Right Oly?
>
> That is the best he has? He can only defend himself by lobbing
> baseless innuendo at me? What a sad sack.
>
>> I seem to recollect a much more important election that was decided
>> by a court back in, oh, was it 2000? How is the Franken affair any
>> different? Either they were both "stolen" or neither one of them was
>> "stolen."
> If it is anyone who is liberal or suspected of being liberal then it
> is "stolen". If it is a Republican, then no matter how extreme their
> ideology, the other side was a "sore loser".
PC, I'm surprised that you have neglected to bring up the expression
"activist judges." 8>)
> I hope that clears things up.
>
> In any event, Oly once again dodged the real issue by lobbing
> something totally from outer space in relation to it.
>
> Hey, I found a dime!
I found a dime, too, and it was an 1873-CC no arrows in XF-AU PQ, neener,
neener!
James the Serendipitous
Mr. Jaggers
Call me dense, but I fail to understand the significance of "kayak
instructor." But then, I lead a very sheltered, Christian conservative
life, so I might not know of such worldly things.
James the Chaste
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h2lgm...@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
> I'm hoping that before I cross the Chilly River, the state legislatures
> will finally put the Electoral College system out of its, and our, misery.
>
A-men!
Had John Kerry won Ohio he would have been POTUS while having 3,000,000 less
votes. That would have been a farce, IMO, even though it would have saved
us from four more years of the hideous administration that Bush and his ilk
were.
Patrick
How convenient to run as an incumbent when you were never elected to begin
with...
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>> And how is you wife's kayak instructor???
>
> Call me dense, but I fail to understand the significance of "kayak
> instructor." But then, I lead a very sheltered, Christian conservative
> life, so I might not know of such worldly things.
>
Oly seems to be an expert ... in whatever it is he is alledging...
Sorry, Oly. This won't change the fact that you made some disgusting
statements which you now shamelessly, transparently, and desperately try to
draw attention from whenever the subject comes up.
oly
>
> > The Founding Fathers never intended for U.S. Senators to be elected by
> > the popular vote, BTW. The system may have worked better when State
> > Legislatures picked the U.S. Senators.
>
> IIRC it was the 17th Amendment to the Constitution that established direct
> election of Senators. The Founders were afraid of the masses, hence they
> established the Electoral College and made Senator choice the purview of the
> State Governments, both very bad decisions on their part, IMHO. Apparently
> enough state legislatures agreed with my position on Senator choice, or the
> amendment would have died. I'm hoping that before I cross the Chilly River,
> the state legislatures will finally put the Electoral College system out of
> its, and our, misery.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
My take on how the U.S. Constitution originally provided for the
election of Senators is a little different. The U.S. Senator was
intentionally meant to be a creature, a representative of the State
Legislatures in Washington, D.C.. This was a small but significant
way of bringing the men sitting in each state capitol into the federal
system. If you want to interpret it your way (that the Founding
Fathers didn't trust the plebes), we are not that far apart.
Of course, as a card-carrying, ultra right-wing zealot, I can only
lament all the horrible crap (ratification of the 16th and 17th
Amendments, the creation of the FRB [as our first Central Bank since
1836], the horrific Presidency of Woodrow Wilson) that happened in
1913. It was the year that America's 19th century actually ended.
oly
oly
Again, the 2000 (and all the other) Presidential elections don't boil
down to popular votes. G.W. Bush had more electoral votes in 2000 and
he became the 43rd President. Thank goodness.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I could easily come up with my own list of horrible crap, but I'll not
regale the good folks of r.c.c. with it. I'm trying to quit, really, I am.
James the Reformed
Mr. Jaggers
For that, I've been withholding my thanks to goodness or whatever, and will
likely withhold it for a very long time.
James the Postponer
Donald Weber
was developed to even out the power of big states over little states. But
for what it's worth I'd go for elimination of it. I'd even go for the
concept of delegating electors by the candidates percentage of the vote. The
idea of a winner take all in most states never seemed fair to me.
Bush, Gore, Kerry, McCain and Obama ALL campaigned with the electoral
college in mind. Change things and you would see more even campaigning
across the country instead of leaning on the "Swing" States. But I won't
hold my breath waiting for it.
Don
Mr. Jaggers
You're partially correct. It was the Senate that was set up with the same
number of delegates from each state for the reason you cited. As you say,
the EC giving all the votes from a large state to someone who may have won
within that state by a majority of one, produces the exact opposite effect.
James the Elector
Bob F.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dubya was by far the worst president this country has had in the last
100 years.
His presidency was an absolute and abject failure.
linxlvr
> "dorancoins" <doran...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
news:2c430abf-2065-4140...@y17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 3, 9:27 am, Charles Edwards <chas....@comcast.net> wrote:
>> dorancoins Jul 3
>>
>> I did ran for a seat on the boards of both the ANA and CSNS but did not
>> win. I was not bitter about the ANA election in 2007 because, simply,
>> my feeling was that as long as the new governors are not part of the
>> Bill Horton/Chris Cipoletti regime that the ANA can get the much-needed
>> reform that it needs. CSNS is a whole different matter, as I come to
>> find out. I lost because the "good ol'boys" are afraid that a
>> reform-minded person like me would question everything they do. The
>> fact of the matter is that I would not hesitate to question what the
>> board does, as I have been told by past board members of some
>> of the shananigans that goes on. CSNS is another organization that
>> needs to rid itself of the cronyism but as long as the "good'ol boys"
>> have control, that will never happen.
>>
>> *************
>>
>> No, you lost because you engaged in name-calling rather than a reasoned
>> campaign for the CSNS Board seat.
>>
>> Chas. Edwards
>
> Are you f--king stupid? In the 3 times that I ran for the CSNS Board
> not once did I resort to name-calling - where did you come up with this
> bulls--t?
> _______________
>
> Just from reading the tone of your reply here, I wouldn't vote for you
> for any office.
Ditto...
--
dw
Frank Provasek
governors.
Bob F.
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:add3a359-83ad-4242...@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> Congratulations to Mishler and the new members of the board of
> governors.
Way to brown nose, Fwankie!
coinsusa
you need to get back on your meds there bob.
Jud
Correct me if I am wrong (I know you will!) but I thought that the
electoral college was one of the 'checks and balances' that the
founding fathers created to keep 'Chicago-style' politics from
stealing elections. You know Chicago politics...where half of the
voters came from the obituary page. Guess we have to call it the
Teheran politics now, where they had 110% turn out. Yep...more votes
than voters.
The electoral college keeps the thousands of dead voters ballots from
affecting more than one elector.
Jud - Poli-Sci major before I switched to Philosophy.
PC
"Jud" <numis...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b37f32e0-b32f-4029...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> The electoral college keeps the thousands of dead voters ballots from
> affecting more than one elector.
>
It just opens to door to a different kind of fraud. As we witnessed in
Florida, now you can rig an election by disenfranchising just one county
from one state in a close contest.
Mr. Jaggers
> On Jul 3, 12:25 pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:>
>> The Coleman-Franken election was decided by the "popular" vote. The
>> Bush-Gore affair was decided by "electoral" votes. On the morning
>> after the election, Coleman had more popular votes and G.W. Bush had
>> more electoral votes.
>
>
> that Gore would have
> won under any standard had all the ballots been reviewed,
>
> http://azspot.net/post/33231129/democracy-counts-the-media-consortium-florida
>
> Unfortunately, the study was released after 9/11 and the results were
> surpressed out
> of respect to "president" Bush.
Whether that study and its subsequent report are accurate or not, they are a
sterling example of how there are often two sides to every story. It is
those who refuse to see both sides who are surely flogging this great
country headlong toward its ultimate ruin.
James
Bob F.
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h30qq...@enews2.newsguy.com...
There is only one side to any story, that being the side the listener
chooses to believe.
Mr. Jaggers
I choose to believe nothing.
James the Nonbeliever
oly
> Frank Provasek wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 12:25 pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:>
> >> The Coleman-Franken election was decided by the "popular" vote. The
> >> Bush-Gore affair was decided by "electoral" votes. On the morning
> >> after the election, Coleman had more popular votes and G.W. Bush had
> >> more electoral votes.
>
> > The Newspaper Consortium that reviewed the Florida ballots concuded
> > that Gore would have
> > won under any standard had all the ballots been reviewed,
>
>
> > Unfortunately, the study was released after 9/11 and the results were
> > surpressed out
> > of respect to "president" Bush.
>
> Whether that study and its subsequent report are accurate or not, they are a
> sterling example of how there are often two sides to every story. It is
> those who refuse to see both sides who are surely flogging this great
> country headlong toward its ultimate ruin.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
That made me think of Shakespeare:
Cassius: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings."
Julius Caesar (I, ii, 140-141)
[a lifted explication, not mine but reasonable] Cassius, a nobleman,
is speaking with his friend, Brutus, and trying to persuade him that,
in the best interests of the public, Julius Caesar must be stopped
from becoming monarch of Rome. Brutus is aware of Caesar's intentions,
and is torn between his love of his friend Caesar and his duty to the
republic. Cassius continues by reminding Brutus that Caesar is just a
man, not a god, and that they are equal men to Caesar. They were all
born equally free, and so why would they suddenly have to bow to
another man? On another level this phrase has been interpreted to mean
that fate is not what drives men to their decisions and actions, but
rather the human condition.
[facile olyism] It is the tendency of modern Americans to exalt the
President as a temporary monarch, along with the President's power to
spend vast sums on his favored persons and projects, that has made our
politics so virulent and made the Republic so fragile. The framers of
the Constitution never intended that the executive would be so exalted
over the other two branches of government. In our wealth and
decadence, America has so much in common with the late Roman
Republic.
oly
Peter
> Frank Provasek wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 12:25 pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:>
> >> The Coleman-Franken election was decided by the "popular" vote. The
> >> Bush-Gore affair was decided by "electoral" votes. On the morning
> >> after the election, Coleman had more popular votes and G.W. Bush had
> >> more electoral votes.
>
> > The Newspaper Consortium that reviewed the Florida ballots concuded
> > that Gore would have
> > won under any standard had all the ballots been reviewed,
>
>
> > Unfortunately, the study was released after 9/11 and the results were
> > surpressed out
> > of respect to "president" Bush.
>
> Whether that study and its subsequent report are accurate or not, they are a
> sterling example of how there are often two sides to every story. It is
> those who refuse to see both sides who are surely flogging this great
> country headlong toward its ultimate ruin.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Also note:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VOTE.html
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you sure this is really the NYT??? Seems like a well-reasoned
article to my ultra-right wing GOP soul. Gotta be BOGUS.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Heh. Let me have men about me who are fat - sleek-headed men, and such as
sleep o' nights. Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too
much. Such men are dangerous.
I guess that makes the two of us regular pussycats, non? 8>)
> [facile olyism] It is the tendency of modern Americans to exalt the
> President as a temporary monarch, along with the President's power to
> spend vast sums on his favored persons and projects, that has made our
> politics so virulent
Stop right there. It is the wingnuts on both the right and left that have
made our politics so virulent. What I hear "modern Americans", and by that
I mean those whose lifelines have intersected mine, doing regularly amounts
to little else besides p&m-ing about the Current Occupant, whoever it might
be. It was only Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, and a very few others who ever
"exalted" GWB. Today it's a handful of leftwing pundits who "exalt" BHO.
The rest of us p&m about him and the price of gas, even when it's going
down, as it happens to be doing as I write.
> and made the Republic so fragile.
That it has done, as I observed ci-dessus.
> The framers of
> the Constitution never intended that the executive would be so exalted
> over the other two branches of government.
But they certainly knew that it would happen. It's human nature, and there
was nothing they could have done about it. It has always been incumbent
upon the downtrodden branch or branches of government to assert themselves
under the Constitution, and if they have failed to do that, they get what
they deserve.
> In our wealth and
> decadence,
What decadence? I see no new morality, I see only the old immorality. We
are no more decadent today than those who were alive in 1790. We just hear
about it more.
> America has so much in common with the late Roman
> Republic.
But not just because of the present-day administration. All have had their
part in bringing this about, and I shall accept no indictment of one party
or President over the other, in case that was going to be your next move.
James the Equal Opportunity Critic
Mr. Jaggers
Our system of election canvassing thus contains a flaw that I hope does not
turn out to be fatal. The sooner we remedy this flaw, the better.
James the Repairman
Mr. Jaggers
The NYT has a bias, as do all news sources, but it certainly not what the
radio and cable talkers make them out to be.
James the Centrist
Mr. Jaggers
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In article <h30sb...@enews5.newsguy.com>, "Mr. Jaggers"
> -999
Don't you have those "9"s upside down, then? 8>)
James el Diablo
oly
three square meals a day.
Actually, the last time I saw you at CICF, you looked a bit slimmed
down. Really.
oly
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Freakin' machine. Thank Gawd it hasn't grabbed anything incredibly
embarassingly assoholic that I wrote at length, but then decided NOT
to post.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
That must have been in 1983.
James the Dirigible
Scott Stevenson
<fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
>On Jul 3, 12:25�pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:>
>> The Coleman-Franken election was decided by the "popular" vote. �The
>> Bush-Gore affair was decided by "electoral" votes. �On the morning
>> after the election, Coleman had more popular votes and G.W. Bush had
>> more electoral votes.
>
>
>The Newspaper Consortium that reviewed the Florida ballots concuded
>that Gore would have
>won under any standard had all the ballots been reviewed,
>
>http://azspot.net/post/33231129/democracy-counts-the-media-consortium-florida
>
>Unfortunately, the study was released after 9/11 and the results were
>surpressed out
>of respect to "president" Bush.
And yet, that bastion of radical right-wing thought, The New York
Times, points out that under most recount scenarios, Bush would have
won. Funny that you linked to a page that only showed _part_ of the
results the Consortium drew.
As the NYT said "A close examination of the ballots found that Mr.
Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida
court's order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been
reversed by the United States Supreme Court."
Scott
Frank Provasek
>
> - Show quoted text -
The NY Times article says exactly the same thing..a statewide recount
of all the votes would have given Gore Florida.
"An approach Mr. Gore and his lawyers rejected as impractical - a
statewide recount - could have produced enough votes to tilt the
election his way, no matter what standard was chosen to judge voter
intent."
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h30ul...@enews5.newsguy.com...
>> Are you sure this is really the NYT??? Seems like a well-reasoned
>> article to my ultra-right wing GOP soul. Gotta be BOGUS.
>
How utterly predictable...
> The NYT has a bias, as do all news sources, but it certainly not what the
> radio and cable talkers make them out to be.
>
Careful - the house of cards that makes up the belief system of an extreme
right wing nut job is at danger with that kind of talk.
PC
"Peter" <w2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a4c0fefb-105d-42d6...@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Also note:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VOTE.html
That explains why the Bush camp was so vehemently against a full recount and
preferred instead to disefranchise voters.
Of course this was a prelude to one of the most corrupt administrations that
got us involved in am umecessary and costly war which eroded our economy and
currency and nearly caused a second great depression. In the meantime they
spied on US citizens.
Peter
>
> - Show quoted text -
I used to be a paper boy for the NYT. I met some of the leadership
had a tour of the plant, once. While in high school I was something
of a zealot for the paper. After reading it a few years later I
realized that it had a strong bias; I also know that there are still
some there that will print the truth. I'm not always sure which I'm
seeing. Lately, I like to look at a lot of sources (in fact I'm
increasingly a little uncertain of reality even if I see events,
myself).
oly
The tin foil hats say watch out for 12:34:56 on 07/08/09. That's THE
signal.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Rightfully so, I suppose, as the media have discovered that in order to
survive in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, they have to
couch everything in the form of entertainment. But I will persist in my
contention that the NYT, as well as virtually all media labelled as
"drive-by", "state-run" and other epithets bestowed from behind the golden
EIB microphone, gets that label because it dares put into print topics that
certain individuals prefer that no one ever hear about, never mind the
medium's position one way or another about that topic. Just acknowledging
that gays, evolution, and abortion exist, for example, is often enough cause
for those individuals to go into paroxysms of hate.
James the News Junkie
'Homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto.'
Mr. Jaggers
Is that EDT, CDT, MDT, PDT, GMT, CMT, or what?
James the Timekeeper
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I really enjoy the billboards that illustrate the carvings of
Washington, Jefferson, T. Roosevelt, Lincoln and Limbaugh on the South
Dakota mountainside, which proudly proclaim: "Listen to Rush More!"
I am always impressed by the MANY people who I find listening to EIB
whom I am pretty certain aren't deep-down political types. It happens
frequently. When I inquire, the explainations are fuzzy, but it seems
they listen because their own working middle-class set of values are
constantly "pooh-poohed" by the MSM. IMHO, Nixon's "silent majority"
still exists and it (they) is (are) smoldering.
These very same people have EIB on one radio button and "Bob and Tom"
on another radio button; I can't say that they are humorless right-
wing prudes.
Hey, how about them Zachary Taylor goldine dollars!!! Them's real
humdingers!!!
oly
Jud
historical ones, the way it is reported and what actually happened are
often 2 different things. Not just one media outlet, but all of them.
Forget about sensationalism (if it bleeds, it leads), misquoting,
quoting out of context, putting words into peoples mouths, errors of
omission (if you want to believe that it WAS an error), genuine
errors, and total fabrications
I have learned to take anything from any source with a grain of salt.
Don't believe anything you are told, everyone has an agenda. To put it
back on-topic, there are 2 sides to the coin. For every news article
there is probably a counter-article, depending upon your view. Living
here in the US of A, we have the ability to speak our minds, spout our
opinions without governmental recourse. Is this a great country or
what?
Jud - Everyone is entitled to my opinion
Mr. Jaggers
Oly, do you know what a humdinger really is? It's a coin or other round
object that has two holes drilled in it, through which a string is passed to
make a spinning toy to amuse kids. That is an appropriate fate for those
infernal things.
James the Toymaker
Mr. Jaggers
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you. 8>)
James the Lover of Liberty
Mr. Jaggers
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In article <h33og...@enews5.newsguy.com>, "Mr. Jaggers"
> when the bottom of the base is pushed in? i had an eiffel tower that
> was in
> chunks until you released the base and strings and it would stand up.
> do you know what i mean? there were adam's, of course but also
> animals like a
> cool giraffe.
> i hope i explained that right. i wish i had one.
I know what you mean but not what they are called. Our son had one with a
little horse.
James