Everybody has an opinion
Bill Krummel
whether I'm hungry or sated or whether I'm...uh, nevermind.
I bought this bust dime from an internet auction (not eBay) several weeks
ago;
http://showcase.netins.net/web/billsdqandcoins/dime1832.JPG
I was concerned from the auction image (which was nice) that the coin was
possibly messed with and that concern increased when all the floor bidders
let my cheap internet bid hold.
I took it to the coin club meeting in December and offered it in the club
auction with a reserve just under greysheet for XF. I called it a coin with
AU details that had likely been cleaned, but still a very nice coin. Only
two lookers and no bidders, although one of the lookers, a coin dealer,
approached me after the auction and expressed an interest in the coin for
his personal type collection but had to pull his existing type bust dime
from the safety deposit box and have another look at his coin before he made
a decision. From memory he thought my dime was better than his (he
purchased his as an XF) and would want mine for an upgrade. Three club
members looked at the coin as the club meeting wound down and adamantly
disagreed with me on the probable cleaning. One thought the coin would get
an AU50 from PCGS and offered to pay the submission fee if I would submit.
At that time I said it would be a throw away of money to submit, that the
coin would come back ungraded. But,
After a came home, with all the discussion over the coin in my head, I took
longer looks at the coin. On the obverse I see what appear to be original,
lustrous surfaces between the stars and the coin's rim and also next to most
of the devices. But in the open fields there is no luster. There was
something going on with the obverse die at 6 o'clock, possibly a die break
on the rim and a die crack in the field between the rim and the bust. I
think the obverse details look like an XF and I grade the obverse an XF45.
The reverse has more mint luster and sharper details. I grade the reverse
AU50 or AU53.
I am not so sure the coin has ever been cleaned although I am almost
uncomfortable with a 176 year old coin that is so white, excepting for the
rim toning. Still, when I give it some thought, this would be pretty much
how a coin would look when pulled out of circulation in an XF/AU state, with
mint luster still evident close to the devices but much duller in the open
fields.
So, that is my opinion, watered down with some uncertainty.
If I don't sell the coin in January to the coin dealer, I'm thinking about
taking up the other coin club member's offer, which also included a split of
any additonal profits if he was right and the coin came back a slabbed AU.
Bill
Isti Mirant Stella
Your coin fits all the diagnostics of JR-2, an R-2 (fairly common) variety,
including "edge cud from broken collar develops to left of date." None of
the 1832 varieties calls for a die crack from the bust to that cud, so I
can't really say what that might be.
In my opinion, the coin has been cleaned, somewhat harshly. One can see
heavy hairlines from the cleaning, especially on the cheek and neck, between
bust and date, and before the face. It was probably done long ago, but it
takes a half century for retoning to occur on coins so treated.
Steve
"Bill Krummel" <dqu...@netins.net> wrote in message
news:giov9a$47i$1...@news.netins.net...
It would probably bag for cleaning. Not a bad cleaning, just too white. It's
still a nice coin. You asking price at the club auction was about right -
it's worth just under xf money.
Steve
beekeep
Like I've said before, coin slabbing has taken all the fun out of coin
collecting. Here you are worrying about something you can't even see with your
naked eye rather than appreciating the beauty of the old coin and admiring the
fact that it is made of fine silver with a pleasing ring to your ear. To me,
the wonderment of where it's been and what it was traded for far outweighs
worrying about weather or not it has had a cleaning in its life time. Early
American coinage was beautiful and worth its weight in the metal it was stamped
in. Putting it in a plastic holder so that your hands can't feel it does little
more than desecrate it.
Beekeep
Bob Hairgrove
> I bought this bust dime from an internet auction (not eBay) several weeks
> ago;
>
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/billsdqandcoins/dime1832.JPG
>
[snip]
> I am not so sure the coin has ever been cleaned although I am almost
> uncomfortable with a 176 year old coin that is so white, excepting for the
> rim toning. Still, when I give it some thought, this would be pretty much
> how a coin would look when pulled out of circulation in an XF/AU state, with
> mint luster still evident close to the devices but much duller in the open
> fields.
Bill, I have heard that most silver coins this old have been cleaned at
one time or another. It is very rare to find one that hasn't been
cleaned, especially in such good condition. But I wouldn't say that it
was harshly cleaned. I'll bet that PCGS and NGC have slabbed their share
of capped bust coins which have been cleaned at some point if they were
as attractive as yours is. Might be worth taking the chance!
Otherwise, from looking at your pictures, I would agree with everything
you say in your assessment of the grade.
RWF
> day or whether I'm hungry or sated or whether I'm...uh, nevermind.
>
> I bought this bust dime from an internet auction (not eBay) several
> weeks ago;
>
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/billsdqandcoins/dime1832.JPG
>
> I was concerned from the auction image (which was nice) that the coin
> was possibly messed with and that concern increased when all the floor
> bidders let my cheap internet bid hold.
>
> I took it to the coin club meeting in December and offered it in the
> club auction with a reserve just under greysheet for XF. I called it
> a coin with AU details that had likely been cleaned, but still a very
> nice coin.
Looks like it was cleaned to me.
Nevertheless it's a very nice example.
ANACS would probably certify as XF45 cleaned. Maybe even AU50.
Mike Marotta
> I bought this bust dime from an internet auction (not eBay) several weeks
> ago;
No coin that old should be that white. You knew that. Cleaned,
dipped, whatever. If it bothers you that much, put it in a baked
potato or a hard-boiled egg or an old book or a wool suit and forget
about it. When you remember it again, it will look a lot better.
Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Old library table and leather coasters."
note.boy
A shame that it's been cleaned so badly, store it in a display cabinet of a
type of wood that will tone it again.
I don't know they type of wood my display cabinet is made of, not for coins,
but it toned a few UK £5 coins very quickly, by accident on my part. Billy
mazorj
"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:j9b4l.1569$m53....@newsfe04.ams2...
> I don't know they type of wood my display cabinet is made of, not
> for coins, but it toned a few UK £5 coins very quickly, by accident
> on my part. Billy
How old is it? Unless it's been able to dry out for several years, it
may be varnish or wood glue fumes. If the case has any wood-chip
composition board or masonite (commonly used as the back-piece on
cabinets), it's probably still outgassing from the binder glue. If
you've got all four, it might tarnish anything short of stainless
steel.
Either that, or it's time to toss that sulfurous Easter egg displayed
there that you or your kin painted in kindergarten. ;-)
note.boy
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hOb4l.750$Es4...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
The exact age is unknown as it was not new when bought, probably about 20
years old, there's not anything in it that could be damaged by the "fumes".
Billy
Jerry Dennis
Tough to tell from the pictures, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was
cleaned. I see some bag marks or dings and a few scratches but
nothing that would lead me to believe it was severely cleaned. How
does it look under your loupe?
Now a dipping may have been possible. Great details but it does look
a little uncharacteristicly white. Still, if pulled from circulation
way back and put aside, it may have retained its luster.
I would offer, if you're convinced it's been cleaned, consider ANACS.
If it comes back NOT net-graded, crack it out and resubmit.
Jerry