Overgraded slabs
LM5403
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2074&lot=2569&imagetype=j2&imageview=0
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2074&lot=2571&imagetype=j
This one looks pretty close:
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2074&lot=2573&imagetype=j2
Johnny Thunder
PCGS - Pure Crap Grading Service
I read this on this newsgroup. It's not mine but I like it.
JAM
LM5403
"Johnny Thunder" <"Johnny Thunder"@pgh.net> wrote in message
news:42F0D6F7...@pgh.net...
I got it from a retired Canadian dealer... great guy.
Johnny Thunder
Yes, PCGS is famous for over grading Canadian coins.
JAM
Gary Loveless
Yeah you got it from LM5403....or whatever their handle is........
Gary
Frank Provasek
>
> JAM
British commonwealth collectors almost always undergrade coins.
Here is a supposed "EF"
note.boy
You have that the wrong way round Frank.
The USA system of coin grading is designed to part the gullible from
their cash with all that MS nonsense.
The European system is as it should be in the USA.
There must be a tiny amount of wear somewhere that prevents it from
being unc, there will of course be very few unc coins of that type/age
around. EF is as good as can be expected and as the appearance of an
unc would be little better an EF is very desirable. It has a lovely
original colour, if that was messed with the value would drop like a
stone.
What grade would you give that half penny Frank? Same question to any
other collector that resides in the USA, difficult from a scan of
course. Billy
James Higby
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:oUaIe.428$RZ2...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Johnny Thunder" <"Johnny Thunder"@pgh.net> wrote in
>>
>> Yes, PCGS is famous for over grading Canadian coins.
>>
>> JAM
>
> British commonwealth collectors almost always undergrade coins.
When buying, when selling, or both? You don't suppose they have some
special immunity to gradeflation, do you (apologies in advance to Ian,
Billy, Tony, and our other British friends)?
>
> Here is a supposed "EF"
>
> http://wybrit.com/info/EF.JPG
Betcha it wouldn't be just an EF if the owner were trying to sell it in the
U.S. You should see some of the stuff offered by British dealers who come
to the Chicago International show. Sheesh!
James
Frank Provasek
>
> The European system is as it should be in the USA.
>
> There must be a tiny amount of wear somewhere that prevents it from
> being unc, there will of course be very few unc coins of that type/age
> around. EF is as good as can be expected and as the appearance of an
> unc would be little better an EF is very desirable. It has a lovely
> original colour, if that was messed with the value would drop like a
> stone.
>
> What grade would you give that half penny Frank? Same question to any
> other collector that resides in the USA, difficult from a scan of
> course. Billy
>
I would guess AU58, which is the grade often given in the USA to
slightly worn coins which have such a pleasing appearance that most
would choose them over an dull, totally brown, Uncirculated, yet they will
still
be priced far less than the latter.
Bruce H (BoxTurtle)
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> is alleged to have written:
Well, I made some assumptions about how that coin wears (I really
haven't a clue) and I'd grade it AU.
Bruce
*************************************************
ANA R162074
EAC 3606
To email me, remember that RoadRunner
and Coyote do not mix.
*************************************************
Scott Stevenson
>What grade would you give that half penny Frank? Same question to any
>other collector that resides in the USA, difficult from a scan of
>course. Billy
If the darkness in the fields is toning, I'd probably grade it
AU-53. If it's breaks in the luster, AU-50. I _think_ I see just a
hint of flatness in HM's hair, her cheek, and Britannia's face and
clothing. If I had coin in hand, it might go as high as AU-58, but I
don't typically give my own stuff a 58 unless all I see in the way of
wear are luster breaks.
take care,
Scott
stuart sanders
Canadian and American, I've always been taught by reputable dealers,
that the Canadian/ European grading system always grades about 5 to
10 points lower than the American 70 point system. It is olny if you
buy a British or Canadian coin, graded by a U.S dealer, for U.K. or
Canadian prices, you have a problem. Look at the prices for U.K. coins
in Krause, or a similar catalogue, then look at Spinks price guide,
you'll see what I mean.
Of course, this is confusing for some. It's simple really, grade UK
coins by UK standards, Canadian by Canadian and American by American,
it is that simple.
It also explains why so many Euripeans get upset with the slabbing of
UK coins. I see plenty of AU55 and 58 coins I'd never pay more than
Good E.F. UK prices for.
And, I might add, every time I go to the U.K., I get them graded, and
priced, as I would expect....and you can get some REALLY cheap U.S.
coins as a result, if you look.... ;o)
Stu
LM5403
US/Canadian/Mexican grading standards, but I don't think I even have an old
book in my library that has UK standards.
"stuart sanders" <stu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ni53f155k6ceq10pc...@4ax.com...
note.boy
A very sensible attitude that makes a lot more sense than paying a lot more
for a supposedly MSsillynumber coin that may, or may not be, a very slightly
higher grade, at a lot more money.
There are endless threads here re the actual grade of a slabbed coin so why
gamble with your hard earned cash buying high MS coins at very high prices
when there's very little actual difference in the condition of the coin from
one MS to the next above.
How many readers of this NG have actually paid mega bucks for a high MS coin?
Are the majority sensible and are happy with low MS or below at a lot less
money? Billy
note.boy
When UK dealers travel to the USA to sell their coins do they stick with
the UK grading or do they join in with the MS stuff in the hope of making a
fast buck? Billy
note.boy
> If I may join this conversation, as a Canadian who collects British,
> Canadian and American, I've always been taught by reputable dealers,
> that the Canadian/ European grading system always grades about 5 to
> 10 points lower than the American 70 point system. It is olny if you
> buy a British or Canadian coin, graded by a U.S dealer, for U.K. or
> Canadian prices, you have a problem. Look at the prices for U.K. coins
> in Krause, or a similar catalogue, then look at Spinks price guide,
> you'll see what I mean.
> Of course, this is confusing for some. It's simple really, grade UK
> coins by UK standards, Canadian by Canadian and American by American,
> it is that simple.
> It also explains why so many Euripeans get upset with the slabbing of
> UK coins. I see plenty of AU55 and 58 coins I'd never pay more than
> Good E.F. UK prices for.
> And, I might add, every time I go to the U.K., I get them graded, and
> priced, as I would expect....and you can get some REALLY cheap U.S.
> coins as a result, if you look.... ;o)
> Stu
I must start searching for USA coins. :-) Billy
Ian
Don't know about you Billy, but hand on heart I can't say that there is
any UK dealer that I would be happy recommending on the basis of their
grading skills or grading consistency.
Ian
note.boy
LM5403 wrote:
> Do you know of a website that has UK standards? I'm familiar with
> US/Canadian/Mexican grading standards, but I don't think I even have an old
> book in my library that has UK standards.
Tony's site has some info.
http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/values/coins.html
It would be difficult, compared to USA coinage, to apply a 70 point grading
system to UK coins due to the huge variety of design types of milled coins over
the last 350 years, this may mean that it will never be acceptable over here.
As previous posts have mentioned it has been tried here recently by one UK
dealer and they have come in for a bit of stick in Coin News magazine and I
don't think it's been much of a success so far, which is great news.
I was going to post a link to the site offering slabbed UK coins and low and
behold it's no longer in operation, that didn't last long and good riddance. I
hope they lost a lot of money in their attempt to foist slabbed coins on UK
collectors, they must have had very few takers, a victory for common sense.
http://www.certifiedgbcoins.com
It should be simpler to accurately grade and slab USA coins due to the much
smaller number of design types of USA coinage but as the very long threads
about grading prove it's not that straight forward. Billy
LM5403
> How many readers of this NG have actually paid mega bucks for a high MS
> coin?
> Are the majority sensible and are happy with low MS or below at a lot less
> money? Billy
>
few coins. I have my eye on a coin going for $2000 to upgrade my only NGC
registry set -- hopefully it'll still be for sale when I have the money.
Frank Provasek
http://www.coinoisseur.com/GradingCoins.html
http://coingrading.vpcoins.com/
--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO MINIMUMS www.frankcoins.com
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfrankcoins Texas Auction License 11259
Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association, Fort Worth Coin Club.
Member: Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc
"LM5403" <lm5...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:PhlIe.60114$mC....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
note.boy
That may be true as some variation is bound to occur but as the value of UK coins
does not soar with each tiny grade improvement the temptation to overgrade is
less and a slight overgrade does not have the same dire consequence value wise of
buying an overgraded USA coin.
I have noticed that in one UK dealer's lists the ancient coins seem to be
overgraded compared to the milled coins.
Have you noticed in another post of mine that the site offering slabbed UK coins
is now closed, let the festivities begin. They have not advertised in Coin News
for several months.
Will you now renew your subscription to their auction catalogues? Billy
James Higby
> http://www.predecimal.com/grading_standards.htm
>
> http://www.coinoisseur.com/GradingCoins.html
>
> http://coingrading.vpcoins.com/
Thanks for these, Frank. Very informative and useful.
James
Ian
Note.boy wrote:
(snipping previous)
>>
>>Don't know about you Billy, but hand on heart I can't say that there is
>>any UK dealer that I would be happy recommending on the basis of their
>>grading skills or grading consistency.
>>
>>Ian
>
>
> That may be true as some variation is bound to occur but as the value of UK coins
> does not soar with each tiny grade improvement the temptation to overgrade is
> less and a slight overgrade does not have the same dire consequence value wise of
> buying an overgraded USA coin.
>
I recall one of our US colleagues emailing me and asking me what I
thought the grade of a hammered English piece was. I told him, and he
agreed with me. He then let me know that an English dealer he had been
dealing with happily for some number of years had claimed (and priced)
the coin at a grade higher.
He challenged the dealer concerned on this who in turn said that that
was the grade that auction houses were now applying to hammered coins of
that condition. Seemed to me to be an `overnight' kind of seed change
and more of an excuse to try to weasel a fast buck from our US
colleague. I reported on this to rcc at the time in relation to the UK
not being immune to `gradeflation' practices. I also lost my respect for
that dealer in the process.
Up till then Colin was the only dealer in the UK I would have happily
recommended to anyone. The poor man is unfortunately dead now so he
can't speak to his side of the story. I will miss his knowledge of UK
farthings. It was second to none. I won't miss him for his grading.
> I have noticed that in one UK dealer's lists the ancient coins seem to be
> overgraded compared to the milled coins.
>
I couldn't comment without having a look for myself but I too have
noticed that many dealers seem to overstate the grade of ancients. On
the other hand, i've also seen them understated (usually by those who
specialise more in milled coins or have no particular interest in
ancients).
> Have you noticed in another post of mine that the site offering slabbed UK coins
> is now closed, let the festivities begin. They have not advertised in Coin News
> for several months.
>
:-) Excellent news. Of course I am delighted that the venture appears to
have dropped into the bin where it truly belongs.
> Will you now renew your subscription to their auction catalogues? Billy
>
To be honest, i'm not sure. Let's say I haven't missed them.