What is your opinion on coin / medallic / token covers?

[Toke Nørby]

I'm writing on a small article about coin covers and would like to
know why these covers are made and to whom they are sold.

Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?

Thanks in advance for your feedback / opinion.

(posted in rec.collecting.stamps.discuss and rec.collecting.coins)

Mvh
Toke
--
Toke....@Norbyhus.dk
Læs om "Skivearket" og "Skibsgrisens Flugt"
eller om Klasselotteriets inspektører 1753-2010:
http://norbyhus.dk/

[Terry Reedy]

On 2/8/2012 4:13 PM, Toke Nørby wrote:
> I'm writing on a small article about coin covers and would like to
> know why these covers are made and to whom they are sold.

I am not sure I have seen what you refer to. Do they have real coins? or
foil-covered cardboard, like the covered with 'gold-bars' inside a
plastic window.

> Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
> or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?

For the gold-foil covers, the special group includes fools who think
they are actually getting gold, or at least metal of some sort. They are
a headache for show dealers who get to tell them the bad news that the
covers are at best worth pennies on the dollars paid.

tjr

[Jerry Dennis]

On Feb 8, 4:13 pm, Toke Nørby <Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:
> I'm writing on a small article about coin covers and would like to
> know why these covers are made and to whom they are sold.
>
> Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
> or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback / opinion.
>
> (posted in rec.collecting.stamps.discuss and rec.collecting.coins)
>
> Mvh
> Toke
> --

> Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk

> Læs om "Skivearket" og "Skibsgrisens Flugt"
> eller om Klasselotteriets inspektører 1753-2010:http://norbyhus.dk/

They're pretty much a marketing ploy by the Mint to make a few extra
bucks. For the most part, coin collectors don't buy them, preferring
the coin itself as opposed to a "cover." Like anything, the covers
have their collectors so I don't begrudge them. I'm sure we all have
our own "oddballs" that other collectors would say,
"Whatsamattafo'you?"

Jerry

[Ken Barr]

In article <6co5j7l4c4okl9nmk...@4ax.com>,

Toke Nørby <Toke....@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:

> I'm writing on a small article about coin covers and would like to
> know why these covers are made and to whom they are sold.
>
> Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
> or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback / opinion.

Philatelic Numismatic Combinations (PNCs) had their heyday in the 1960's
and 1970's ... they've been pretty much moribund since then. 99 Company
PNCs still show up on eBay from time to time, but I suspect that they
generate little interest above the coin's intrinsic or numismatic value.

The U. S. Mint is a latecomer to this aspect of the hobby, with their
Sacagawea dollar PNCs and Statehood Quarter PNCs, but even those appear
to have had a short-lived spark of interest with almost all of them
currently selling for fractions of their issue price.

John Miles Baker was the "mover and shaker" behind this collectible,
with his "99 Company" probably being the most prolific producer of all
time. He disappeared off the scene some time ago, and I just found out
some of his more recent history (as of 2006, at least) thanks to Google
... Don't know what's happened to John in the last six years.

http://coincollector.org/archives/003604.html

The Society of Philatelists and Numismatists (SPAN) was the collector
organization most closely devoted to PNCs, but it also seems to have
disappeared. I was a member back in the 1980's, mainly because they
were producing souvenir cards, but I haven't seen or heard anything of
them in at least ten years.

--
Ken Barr Numismatics        email:  k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541             website:  http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA  95152     Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247      NEXT SHOW: San Jose Coin Club Jan 27 - 29 (table 200)

[Toke Nørby]

Terry Reedy <tjr...@udel.edu> wrote:

>I am not sure I have seen what you refer to. Do they have real coins? or
>foil-covered cardboard, like the covered with 'gold-bars' inside a
>plastic window.

Some have real coins and some have tokens

>> Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
>> or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?
>
>For the gold-foil covers, the special group includes fools who think
>they are actually getting gold, or at least metal of some sort. They are
>a headache for show dealers who get to tell them the bad news that the
>covers are at best worth pennies on the dollars paid.
>
>tjr

Thanks for your answer. I think it's pretty close to what my friends
think about such numiscovers as they also are called.

[Toke Nørby]

Jerry Dennis <JDen...@aol.com> wrote:

>They're pretty much a marketing ploy by the Mint to make a few extra
>bucks. For the most part, coin collectors don't buy them, preferring
>the coin itself as opposed to a "cover." Like anything, the covers
>have their collectors so I don't begrudge them. I'm sure we all have
>our own "oddballs" that other collectors would say,
>"Whatsamattafo'you?"
>
>Jerry

:-)
thanks a lot - and it seems that stamp collectors don't buy them -
although some do
--
Toke....@Norbyhus.dk

[Toke Nørby]

Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:

>Philatelic Numismatic Combinations (PNCs) had their heyday in the 1960's
>and 1970's ... they've been pretty much moribund since then. 99 Company
>PNCs still show up on eBay from time to time, but I suspect that they
>generate little interest above the coin's intrinsic or numismatic value.
>
>The U. S. Mint is a latecomer to this aspect of the hobby, with their
>Sacagawea dollar PNCs and Statehood Quarter PNCs, but even those appear
>to have had a short-lived spark of interest with almost all of them
>currently selling for fractions of their issue price.
>
>John Miles Baker was the "mover and shaker" behind this collectible,
>with his "99 Company" probably being the most prolific producer of all
>time. He disappeared off the scene some time ago, and I just found out
>some of his more recent history (as of 2006, at least) thanks to Google
>... Don't know what's happened to John in the last six years.
>
>http://coincollector.org/archives/003604.html
>
>The Society of Philatelists and Numismatists (SPAN) was the collector
>organization most closely devoted to PNCs, but it also seems to have
>disappeared. I was a member back in the 1980's, mainly because they
>were producing souvenir cards, but I haven't seen or heard anything of
>them in at least ten years.

Thanks a lot for this background story - really interesting! I'll
certainly dig out some nuggets from that archive (and refer to this
posting of yours).

[Sir F.A. Rien]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:13:53 +0100, Toke Nørby
<Toke....@Norbyhus.dk> sharpened a crayon and wrote:

>I'm writing on a small article about coin covers and would like to
>know why these covers are made and to whom they are sold.
>
>Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
>or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?
>
>Thanks in advance for your feedback / opinion.
>
>(posted in rec.collecting.stamps.discuss and rec.collecting.coins)
>
>Mvh
>Toke

If they're legal tender [some UK] and you can get them below 'face'
[often happens on eBay], take the money and have a beer!

[Jud]

On Feb 8, 4:13 pm, Toke Nørby <Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:

> I'm writing on a small article about coin covers and would like to
> know why these covers are made and to whom they are sold.
>
> Are there any of you stamp or coin collectors who collect such covers?
> or is there a special group of collectors who buy them?
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback / opinion.
>
> (posted in rec.collecting.stamps.discuss and rec.collecting.coins)
>
> Mvh
> Toke
> --

> Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk

> Læs om "Skivearket" og "Skibsgrisens Flugt"
> eller om Klasselotteriets inspektører 1753-2010:http://norbyhus.dk/

Being the obsessive/compulsive type of 'complete collection'
collector, I admit to having purchased some PNC's from Australia as it
was the ONLY way to obtain a certain coin. Since I did that a few
times, and the RAM has come out with a plethora of NCLT coins, I have
discontinued my mania and now only collect coins that circulate.

[Toke Nørby]

Jud <numis...@aol.com> wrote:

..snip

>Being the obsessive/compulsive type of 'complete collection'
>collector, I admit to having purchased some PNC's from Australia as it
>was the ONLY way to obtain a certain coin. Since I did that a few
>times, and the RAM has come out with a plethora of NCLT coins, I have
>discontinued my mania and now only collect coins that circulate.

Thanks Jud - what does RAM and NCLT mean? - I guess that the last
means Never Circulated ?? (I'm a stamp collector- so just curious!).
Seems to be a business only trying to empty your pocket. Stamp
collectors have also obstructed to countries issuing stamps of high
and un-usefull face values - even this don't happen so often any more.
In old days FIP (our world organization) made lists of "unwanted
stamps" meaning that such stamps were not to be included in exhibits.
Mvh
Toke
--
Toke....@Norbyhus.dk

[oly]

On Feb 10, 1:34 am, Toke Nørby <Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:

> Jud <numismat...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> ..snip
>
> >Being the obsessive/compulsive type of 'complete collection'
> >collector, I admit to having purchased some PNC's from Australia as it
> >was the ONLY way to obtain a certain coin. Since I did that a few
> >times, and the RAM has come out with a plethora of NCLT coins, I have
> >discontinued my mania and now only collect coins that circulate.
>
> Thanks Jud - what does RAM and NCLT mean? - I guess that the last
> means Never Circulated ?? (I'm a stamp collector- so just curious!).
> Seems to be a business only trying to empty your pocket. Stamp
> collectors have also obstructed to countries issuing stamps of high
> and un-usefull face values - even this don't happen so often any more.
> In old days FIP (our world organization) made lists of "unwanted
> stamps" meaning that such stamps were not to be included in exhibits.
> Mvh
> Toke
> --

> Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk

> Læs om "Skivearket" og "Skibsgrisens Flugt"
> eller om Klasselotteriets inspektører 1753-2010:http://norbyhus.dk/

RAM means "Royal Australian Mint" and NCLT means "non-circulating
legal tender" (i.e., collectors-only coin issues which never end up in
people's pockets actually being used as money).

There are no living stamp collectors remaining here in America. They
all committed suicide many years ago when the stupidity of their hobby
(finally) became apparent and they realized that they had lost over
85% of their invested money.

Collect gold and silver coins.

oly

[Bremick]

"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2b5a6f09-af35-45ad...@k6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

------------------

Actually, I know of one local stamp collector who bundles 50-count
assortments of First Day Covers he saved from the 1940's and 50's and trades
a bundle for a cup of coffee at Starbucks. One day he'll run out of those
FDC's and he'll have to drink instant coffee. Or maybe he can get face
value somewhere for his blocks of four, or he can use them on envelopes
before the post office goes out of business.

When I inherited my father's thick US stamp album, his hobby from about 1915
through 1930, I asked a dealer if there were any valuable stamps in there.
He said no, that the stamps (from the 1860's on forward!) were cancelled and
had been hinged. Well, excuuuuuse ME!! Imagine taking an inherited album
of large cents to a coin dealer and being told it is too bad that the coins
were circulated?

[oly]

On Feb 10, 7:57 am, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message

> were circulated?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well let me be a name dropper here. There were a couple of summers
back in the early 1990s when I could count on seeing the great Clyde
Hubbard, Dean of Mexican numismatists, at the ANA Summer Seminar in
Colorado Springs. Some kids on the Colorado College campus asked
Clyde if he would act in a short film they were shooting, an
adaptation of Ernest Hemingway's short story "A Clean, Well-Lighted
Place". Clyde was to play the old man sitting in the cafe in the
story. The kids shot the film outside the college cafeteria about 11
PM at night, and I tagged along as Clyde's security.

To make a long story short, for filming purposes, the kids simply
asked Clyde to set at a cafe table and to look very very sad. Clyde
looked at me and said "Looking very very sad is easy. I just sit
there and think of all the poor old stamp collectors."

In the same filming session, Clyde told the kids that he had briefly
worked in the theatre in Baltimore about 1932 and he had known Scott
Fitzgerald at that time.

oly

[Toke Nørby]

oly <oly...@aol.com> wrote:

...snip

>
>RAM means "Royal Australian Mint" and NCLT means "non-circulating
>legal tender" (i.e., collectors-only coin issues which never end up in
>people's pockets actually being used as money).

Thanks!

>There are no living stamp collectors remaining here in America. They
>all committed suicide many years ago when the stupidity of their hobby
>(finally) became apparent and they realized that they had lost over
>85% of their invested money.

:-)
Well, I think that some may have survived. Depending on what you
collect some stamps are still very expensive even the tendency is that
the prices are decreasing.

>Collect gold and silver coins.

Oh yes, and isn't funny - these strange coin/token covers are getting
more and more expensive because of the silver so they will be worth
collecting now!.

I have never _invested_ my money in stamps - I have bought some nice
stamps and am still happy with them - I don't think of the actual
value at all. I don't have a Krügerrand but if I had I would probably
sell if and buy some stamps and postpone my own suicide ;-)

Mvh
Toke
--
Toke....@Norbyhus.dk

[oly]

On Feb 10, 3:13 pm, Toke Nørby <Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:

> Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk

> Læs om "Skivearket" og "Skibsgrisens Flugt"
> eller om Klasselotteriets inspektører 1753-2010:http://norbyhus.dk/

Proof that stamp collecting is dead???

When I go to the Super Walmart on South Sixth Street here in the
Patch, they sell three monthly magazines about coin collecting.

They also have for sale three magazines about "Stamps".

All three are about using rubber stamps to make decorative greeting
cards and other related paraphernalia to make small decorative
papers. In other words, "craft" magazines. NO PHILATELY.

Nobody collects stamps anymore.

Collect coins, historic or modern, and make certain that most of your
purchases have some gold or silver in them too.

oly

[Toke Nørby]

oly <oly...@aol.com> wrote:

>Proof that stamp collecting is dead???
>
>When I go to the Super Walmart on South Sixth Street here in the
>Patch, they sell three monthly magazines about coin collecting.
>
>They also have for sale three magazines about "Stamps".
>
>All three are about using rubber stamps to make decorative greeting
>cards and other related paraphernalia to make small decorative
>papers. In other words, "craft" magazines. NO PHILATELY.

I agree - nor in Denmark (where I live) we can buy philatelic
magazines at the super marked. But I am a member of four different
stamp clubs (one in the US) and I get magazines from all three :-)

>Nobody collects stamps anymore.

At least there is one left! (me) - and could I just buy all these
stamps of "no value" because of gone stamp collectors - that would
really be fun!

>Collect coins, historic or modern, and make certain that most of your
>purchases have some gold or silver in them too.

I agree that coins are very attractive (too) and that it is important
for your investment that they contains some better metal. (But I stick
to my stamps!)

Mvh
Toke
--
Toke....@Norbyhus.dk

[Jud]

There once was a time when stamps were very collectible, but the US
government came out with too many issues in a year (hear that US
Mint?), values and interest in the hobby went down. If I had shown any
interest in stamps I could have come into 2 large collections from my
grandparents. Both my mother's father, and my father's mother were
presidents of a local coin club at different times. My father
collected First Day Covers. After he died my stepmother went to sell
the collection and wasn't even offered face value! These FDC's went
back to the 1920's. My grandparent's stamp collections were sold for
quite a bit less than they paid for them over a 50 year period. Stamp
collecting is on life support, prognosis not good. Coin collecting is
in the ambulance headed to the hospital.

[Bremick]

"Jud" <numis...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:14dcd77c-c9a1-449b...@b18g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

Agreed. Trying to sell the coins in the albums and envelopes your
grandparents might have saved fifty years ago would likely be frustrating
today unless professionally they were graded and slabbed (not your
grandparents). The ridiculous growing assortment of grade categories for
each annual Mint-issued "for collectors" item is confounding many of those
who had been building sets. I feel sorry for someone on a limited budget
who has been collecting annual proof Eagles since their beginning. Now, if
they plan to continue, they will have a hard time ignoring the special
reverse proofs. And they surely will be excited over prospects of possibly
having one or more annual "special" proofs in the future.

I'd be surprised if this doesn't encourage more people to retreat into the
past and concentrate more on historic coinage rather than on everything the
Mint comes up with each year. That may be one good consequence.

[Toke Nørby]

Jud and Bremick
In some way I can't disagree with you as you talk about the worst
items of all. Normal FDCs are not worth the face value and
unfortunately some mint stamps aren't too.

I have no idea of proof Eagles but can imagine that these are as bad
as FDCs.

BUT- why have people bought these items year after year - coin
collectors probably know that buying these coins are pure waste of
money? unless you don't care about getting your money back some day.

But if you do care about the future value - would you then buy proof
Eagles unless it's just for fun? Probably not. We have the same
problem with FDCs.

Can you warn your collector friends against buying these proofs?

[oly]

On Feb 13, 1:20 pm, Toke Nørby <Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:
> "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >"Jud" <numismat...@aol.com> wrote in message

> Toke.No...@Norbyhus.dk

> Læs om "Skivearket" og "Skibsgrisens Flugt"

> eller om Klasselotteriets inspektører 1753-2010:http://norbyhus.dk/- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

No,, you don't have the same problem with FDCs. FDCs have ZERO
intrinsic value to fall back on. The baseline for stamps is ZERO.
The baseline for a proof Silver Eagle is about 50% of cost. A 50%
loss isn't as bad as a 100% loss.

oly

[Bremick]

"Toke Nørby" <Toke....@Norbyhus.dk> wrote in message
news:mumij7hraj0pp58ng...@4ax.com...

It's not so much the "quality" of the proof Silver Eagles as it is getting
caught up in the habit of collecting them, strictly as an example. Many
collectors have ordered these proof Eagles from the Mint since first offered
in 1886. After budgeting to add a new one to the collection each year, many
collectors were jolted by a special reverse proof issue in 2006-- obtained
only by buying the special set-- followed by the Mint's decision not to
produce a proof Eagle at all in 2009, and then the 5-coin set in 2011.
There goes the budget. At least theese coins have held their value as the
value of silver bullion has risen.

[Jud]

On Feb 13, 4:16 pm, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
 Many
> collectors have ordered these proof Eagles from the Mint since first offered
> in 1886.

1986, but we knew what you meant Bruce! 8-)

[Bremick]

"Jud" <numis...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:4b1236dd-1cce-4c1c...@l16g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

----------

I guess that's what happens when you try to combine genealogy writing with
comments on modern mint products in the same night. Thanks for the heads
up. I'll have to watch those 9 and 8 keys more carefully.

[Toke Nørby]

Toke Nørby <Toke....@Norbyhus.dk> wrote:

>Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:
>
>>Philatelic Numismatic Combinations (PNCs) had their heyday in the 1960's
>>and 1970's ... they've been pretty much moribund since then. 99 Company

...snip

>>http://coincollector.org/archives/003604.html
>>
>>The Society of Philatelists and Numismatists (SPAN) was the collector
>>organization most closely devoted to PNCs, but it also seems to have
>>disappeared. I was a member back in the 1980's, mainly because they
>>were producing souvenir cards, but I haven't seen or heard anything of
>>them in at least ten years.
>
>Thanks a lot for this background story - really interesting! I'll
>certainly dig out some nuggets from that archive (and refer to this
>posting of yours).
>

Now I have "finished" a little series of 5 parts on the pnc-subject. I
hope you will enjoy it (even it's in Danish - but let Google help you
with the translation :-)

http://norbyhus.dk/artiklermm/pnc/kap1.html

Again thank you all for your comments!