No dollar bill? Coin lobbyists will cost us all
Arizona Coin Collector
Interesting article below. Nothing was brough up on
Seigniorage (inflation tax) that is taken into
account when making money.
Seigniorage derived from coins arises from the
difference between the face value of a coin and the
cost of producing, distributing and eventually
retiring it from circulation.
I posted the story below on
Friday, November 28, 2008.
The date on the story is
"Sunday, November 30, 2008"
I cannot explain that on the date of the story.
Maybe the story is for the Atlanta Journal Sunday
paper.
--------------------------------------
FROM:
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/11/30/minitered_1130.html
No dollar bill? Coin lobbyists will cost us all
By RICHARD MINITER
Sunday, November 30, 2008
The $700 billion price tag of the Wall Street bailout has
induced an understandable uproar from the American public.
Taxpayers are right to be concerned about Congress doling
out such a sizable chunk of change - and skeptical of the
justifications proffered by politicians.
But all too often, at the behest of well-connected special
interests, lawmakers are able to sneak hugely expensive
projects right past voters. In just the past couple of
years, Congress has appropriated $1.2 million to study the
breeding habits of woodchucks, $2 million to build an
ancient Hawaiian canoe and nearly $20 million to analyze
gas emissions from cow flatulence.
And right now, at the behest of powerful lobbyists,
lawmakers have embarked upon another misadventure with
millions of taxpayer dollars - they're attempting to
convince us that we should replace the dollar bill with a
dollar coin.
Last year, the U.S. Mint unveiled the Presidential Dollar
Coin Series, pledging to introduce four new coins every
year. So far the coins haven't caught on - a Harris
Interactive poll from March found that a whopping 76
percent of Americans prefer a dollar bill to a coin. But
production of the coins continues.
The groups pushing for the series include metal producers
and the National Automatic Merchandising Association
(NAMA), which represents vending machine manufacturers.
NAMA's members expect their operational costs to drop
dramatically if dollar coins are the norm. Since coins
tend to take up less room inside machines than bills,
collection personnel can make fewer stops at vending
sites. The metal industry's interest in the coins is
obvious.
In making their case, the groups have decided that their
best move is to try and convince lawmakers that taxpayers
will save money if the government produces coins instead
of bills. Problem is, their case blatantly misrepresents
the facts.
At a July hearing held by the House Financial Services
subcommittee, NAMA President Richard Geerdes claimed that
a switch to dollar coins would save "the American
taxpayers at least $600 million a year."
But this year, according to the Federal Reserve, the entire
budget for printing all U.S. currency is $578.5 million.
So unless Geerdes is actually advocating the elimination
of the nation's entire monetary system, it's safe to say
that his figure came out of thin air.
But wait - don't coins last longer than paper notes? Won't
they therefore save at least some money?
Not really. For starters, the lifespan of the average bill
increased from 18 to 22 months over the past eight
years - and that figure continues upward. As the disparity
between how long a coin lasts and how long a bill lasts
decreases, cost savings drop.
Also, the cost of producing coins has been skyrocketing.
The penny now costs 1.9 cents to produce, and the nickel
9.8 cents. The cost of producing a dollar coin has doubled
in the last decade.
Finally, according to both the Congressional Budget Office
and Federal Reserve, it actually takes at least two coins
to replace one paper bill. Coins are more likely to get
dropped from circulation by individual consumers than are
bills. Think of all the coins rattling around that jar on
your dresser or underneath the cushions of your couch.
As a 1993 survey from the U.S. Government Accountability
Office noted, people "consider coins heavier to carry than
notes, as well as bulky and awkward." No kidding.
Despite these realities, the government is burning through
millions on the dollar coin program. Between 1998 and
2001, the Feds spent $67 million promoting the Sacagawea
dollar - ultimately to no avail. A 2001 GAO study found
that the Sacagawea dollar was being used in less than 1
percent of all dollar transactions.
The pro-coin lobbying push is not only bad for
taxpayers; it also undermines the interests of the
vending-machine operators whom NAMA claims to represent.
Today, more Americans are using credit cards than ever
before. Instead of pushing for dollar coins, NAMA should
be encouraging its members to invest in technology to
allow credit card purchases at vending machines.
Time and again, Americans have indicated that they just
don't want to use dollar coins. Yet at the behest of
special interests, the federal government persists in
spending millions trying to convince us that we should.
This campaign for change is costing taxpayers dearly.
It's time for lawmakers to use a little common sense and
say, "no thanks" to the dollar coin.
Richard Miniter is a fellow at the Hudson Institute.
..
MJKolodziej
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:PO2dne85f_sGAK3U...@earthlink.com...
I wonder who the Hudson institute represents?
Credit cards in a vending machine? Yeah,, giving 4%-5% to CC card
companies is going to save.......NOT.
The writer is uninformed or has an agenda.
mk
Bruce Remick
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:PO2dne85f_sGAK3U...@earthlink.com...
My kinda fellow, that Richard! I always enjoy an article that supports my
personal view and debunks the opposition. Whether these figures are
accurate or not, who's to say for sure, but they're worth a second look.
Bruce Remick
"MJKolodziej" <mjmwcsREMOV...@htcomp.net> wrote in message
news:44ydnZ28zaorPq3U...@posted.hometowncomputing...
No different than at the gas pump, and there aren't many station owners
willing to forego that % by accepting only cash. Everyone who touches that
gallon of gasoline gets a cut of the final pump price. Why not a bit for
the CC companies, too for the convenience they offer? Ditto with credit
card-accepting vending machines.
> The writer is uninformed or has an agenda.
From what I see, everyone who expounds on this issue has an agenda, or at
least a firm opinion. You apparently have one. So do I. Most of the coin
vs bill cost saving arguments seem to be based on projections, which are
usually no more reliable than football game predictions.
Arizona Coin Collector
"MJKolodziej" <mjmwcsREMOV...@htcomp.net> wrote in message
news:44ydnZ28zaorPq3U...@posted.hometowncomputing...
>
> I wonder who the Hudson institute represents?
> Credit cards in a vending machine? Yeah,, giving 4%-5% to CC card
> companies is going to save.......NOT.
> The writer is uninformed or has an agenda.
> mk
>
I never took account about charges (intrest), on Credit card
use from the story.
Bruce Remick
Charges would not be felt by the customer any more than they're felt at any
other place that accepts credit cards. Any fee is calculated into the final
price along with any number of other factors. And just think of the cost
savings with credit card-only vending machines-- no need for coin and bill
collections and change restocking. No matter what the cost of the vended
item, most people would always have the means to pay at hand.
MJKolodziej
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:wK1Yk.929$st1...@newsfe10.iad...
Different in that the smaller purchases a vendor can lose a much higher
percentage.
A gas purchase, if you fill from near empty and be from $25 to $75. A
vending machine may be as low as 50 cents. My current CC processor charges
.20 Plus 1.39% and that's just for the lower tier cards, business cards can
be as much as .20 plus 3.49%. How much do you usually spend at a vending
machine?
mk
Arizona Coin Collector
It has been my observaton that vending machines don't always give what
you ask for. Depending on were your at, getting a refund may not be
quick and easy. Unless of couse the vending machine is set up to back
out the charge if it notices that the product did not move out.
.
Bruce Remick
I haven't seen many vending machines that sell stuff for less than a dollar
anymore. And at the gas pump, I look at the price on the sign and never
calcualte how much might be going to the credit card company. I do use a
card at the pump, but only because I get a 5% rebate. I guess that offsets
any hidden credit card fee.
> My current CC processor charges .20 Plus 1.39% and that's just for the
> lower tier cards, business cards can be as much as .20 plus 3.49%.
Merchants must feel these charges are offset by increased business or they
wouldn't play the credit game. I'd bet a gas station in a competitive area
that wouldn't accept credit cards wouldn't last a year before going out of
business.
> How much do you usually spend at a vending machine?
I haven't used a vending machine in years. Talk about willingly getting
ripped off for the sake of convenience! Hard to figure that people who buy
stuff in vending machines would be too upset paying a couple more cents to a
credit card company for a little more convenience.
Bruce Remick
How would you get a refund if a coin machine spits out a grape instead of
the orange you selected? I would imagine that a credit card machine would
not register the charge until "something" was dispensed. I'm guessing here,
but that's how I would envision it working. If not, simply call up the CC
company like you would if you got screwed on an internet purchase. Maybe
that's one reason why I avoid using vending machines.
Superfly
wrote:
> Hello
>
> Interesting article below. Nothing was brough up on
> Seigniorage (inflation tax) that is taken into
> account when making money.
>
> Seigniorage derived from coins arises from the
> difference between the face value of a coin and the
> cost of producing, distributing and eventually
> retiring it from circulation.
>
> I posted the story below on
> Friday, November 28, 2008.
>
> The date on the story is
> "Sunday, November 30, 2008"
>
> I cannot explain that on the date of the story.
> Maybe the story is for the Atlanta Journal Sunday
> paper.
>
> --------------------------------------
>
>
> No dollar bill? Coin lobbyists will cost us all
>
> By RICHARD MINITER
> Sunday, November 30, 2008
>
> The $700 billion price tag of the Wall Street bailout has
> induced an understandable uproar from the American public.
> Taxpayers are right to be concerned about Congress doling
> out such a sizable chunk of change - and skeptical of the
> justifications proffered by politicians.
>
> But all too often, at the behest of well-connected special
> interests, lawmakers are able to sneak hugely expensive
> projects right past voters. In just the past couple of
> years, Congress has appropriated $1.2 million to study the
> breeding habits of woodchucks,
Right! Becuase how other mammals are faring in their environment has
absolutely no impact on our lives. Oh, the outrage.
> $2 million to build an
> ancient Hawaiian canoe
Right! Those Hawaiian natives don't need their history or culture.
Oh, the outrage!
> and nearly $20 million to analyze
> gas emissions from cow flatulence.
>
After all, global warming has no impact on the economy.
What a useless piece of trash article already.
Superfly
>
> My kinda fellow, that Richard! I always enjoy an article that supports my
> personal view and debunks the opposition. Whether these figures are
> accurate or not, who's to say for sure, but they're worth a second look.- Hide quoted text -
>
Just judging by the purposefully obscured facts and the appeal to
one's emotions I think it is safe to say this article offers nothing
of substance.
sgt23
wrote:
> "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in messagenews:PO2dne85f_sGAK3U...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello
>
> > Interesting article below. Nothing was brough up on
> > Seigniorage (inflation tax) that is taken into
> > account when making money.
>
> > Seigniorage derived from coins arises from the
> > difference between the face value of a coin and the
> > cost of producing, distributing and eventually
> > retiring it from circulation.
>
> > I posted the story below on
> > Friday, November 28, 2008.
>
> > The date on the story is
> > "Sunday, November 30, 2008"
>
> > I cannot explain that on the date of the story.
> > Maybe the story is for the Atlanta Journal Sunday
> > paper.
>
> > --------------------------------------
>
> > FROM:
>
> - Show quoted text -
For those of us who use a debit visa it costes us nothing.
Bruce Remick
"Superfly" <Super...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3c45f79-f8b8-457a...@d32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
***********
I guess I missed those purposely obscured facts. They must have been
presented in whatever YOU'VE chosen to read. Unlike you, I have no way of
knowing what's a true fact in an article like this. I'll tentatively agree
with most of what the author says until I learn otherwise-- and not just
from someone else's article.
I've read little of any substance on this issue. It's almost 100%
emotional. Still an interesting subject for discussion anyway.
Paul Anderson
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Interesting article below. Nothing was brough up on Seigniorage
> (inflation tax) that is taken into account when making money.
>
> FROM:
> http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/11/30/minitered_1130.h
> tml
>
> No dollar bill? Coin lobbyists will cost us all
>
> By RICHARD MINITER
> Sunday, November 30, 2008
The National Automatic Merchandising Association (NAMA) has responded to
the above article, pointing out errors in Mr. Miniter's article.
<http://www.1888pressrelease.com/nama-corrects-misstatements-about-dollar
-coins-misstatement-pr-89119.html>
One of my favorite sentences is:
"There is simply no question that everyone would benefit if dollar
bills were replaced with dollar coins."
Paul
--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company
Bruce Remick
"Paul Anderson" <paul.a...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:paul.anderson-BDB...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
That person has obviously never visited RCC. :>)
RWF
news:paul.anderson-BDB...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> bills were replaced with dollar coins."
Especially those who poke around under sofa cushions, arm chairs, car
seats and other spots where dollar coins are likely to wind up after
very easily falling out of your pocket.
No danger of that with a dollar bill though!
PC
"RWF" <R...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ghs2f0$aim$1...@news.motzarella.org...
Sure there is.