Two "pattern" coins that portray Adolf Hitler - are they genuine?
Ice Torch
coins of Nazi Germany. His portrait appeared on many stamp issues, not
just in Germany but in Poland (“General Government”) and in the Nazi
“protectorate” of Bohemia and Moravia. However, his effigy never
graced any German coin, which is quite surprising for various reasons.
However, I have found two examples of what purport to be official
patterns showing Hitler's portrait. Are they genuine? Have a look, as
I discuss the pros and cons, by clicking on the link below:
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9109.0.html
Ice Torch.
Ken Barr
<30abb83c-67dc-4ce3...@k9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Ice Torch <icet...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
The 1933 gold piece is listed in "Unusual World Coins" by
Colin Bruce as catalog number X# Pn21. Bruce states that
it was "possibly produced in Buenos Aires, Argentina in
1959 as souvenirs for German veterans". A similar (larger)
piece also exists, denominated 100 reichsmark.
The 1949 piece does not appear to be listed in "Unusual
World Coins"/
--
Ken Barr Numismatics � � � �email: �k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 � � � � � � website: �http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA �95152 � � Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 � ��NEXT SHOW: Cupertino CC, Napredak Hall (San Jose), Feb. 20
oly
> In article
> <30abb83c-67dc-4ce3-8a6c-3677737e2...@k9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Bad play, Ken, old boy.
Somebody is trying to set himself up here in RCC-land as our "exalted
pedagogue".
Ignore, Ignore, Ignore. I know, I made the mistake a couple of times.
Ken you are a strong Numismatist; You yourself know more than this
Iced Retard.
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Iced retard could be Reamo "in drag".
oly
Beanie
news:ded79670-fb0d-482e...@z20g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>Iced retard could be Reamo "in drag".
The Busch beer is flowing tonite in Springpatch.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ded79670-fb0d-482e...@z20g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Iced retard could be Reamo "in drag".
>
> The Busch beer is flowing tonite in Springpatch.
Maybe, maybe not.
I believe that my point is well taken. Do you want Iced Twea to tell
us what to think???
oly
Ice Torch
> In article
> <30abb83c-67dc-4ce3-8a6c-3677737e2...@k9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Thanks, Ken. That's information I didn't know.
Ice Torch.
Ice Torch
I am not trying to set myself up as anyone's "pedagogue". I am posting
on numismatic subjects that interest me and inviting responses. That
is the purpose of this newsgroup, is it not? I would invite you to
stick to that purpose. Thanks to Ken's response, I have learnt
something I didn't know.
Furthermore I do not indulge in childish and offensive insults ("Iced
Retard"), though I have noted your desire to talk about your rather
eccentric beliefs re. "rapture" etc., rather than numismatics. Your
defensiveness suggests insecurity. Why not share some of your thoughts
on your hobby (if it really is coin collecting) instead of indulging
in negative name-calling and trolling? Though I doubt you possess the
intelligence to do so. Fortunately, you are not at all typical of the
Americans I know, who, unlike you, always accentuate the positive.
Your self-regarding comments suggest that you think you have some
guardianship over RCC. On the contrary, it is not owned by you, but is
open to anyone with an interest in numismatics. I am on topic here, in
a numismatic newsgroup. You are not. True numismatists are not
impressed by your childish name-calling. I used to post regularly on
this newsgroup until around 2007, when I discovered a forum that
suited me, but I still have a certain affection for this place.
Unfortunately, you cannot post images here, which is why I post links
here to illustrated topics on my favourite forum, in the hope that my
fellow numismatists will respond either here or on that forum, which,
incidentally, contains more than a few former RCC-ers.
Ice Torch.
Frank Provasek
Germany. They are interesting pieces, but in no way were ever
proposed issues of the German government.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC, ICTA - Full Time Since 1991
Ice Torch
> All Hitler "coins" are fantasy issues made years after the defeat of
> Germany. They are interesting pieces, but in no way were ever
> proposed issues of the German government.
>
> ----
> 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
> Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC, ICTA - Full Time Since 1991
Yes, I myself had seen an obvious fantasy in the 1980s. Did you see
the one in my topic that is dated 1942? That had a much more authentic
look, and I did see an article on it in World Coin News in the 1990s.
But you have evidence that it's not? The piece dated 1933 in my topic
is a pretty obvious fantasy, though.
Ice Torch.
Frank Provasek
The 1942 piece does not look right. The lettering style was used on
no other Third
Reich coins. Why would the German mint not use the standard 5 mark
reverse?
There are plenty of fantasy stories that accompany fantasy coins...
standard 5 mark reverse
Ice Torch
Thanks for your comments, Frank. It is possible that a different font
could have been used: nothing stays the same forever, of course - but
you have sown doubts in my mind...
Frantisek Baltiska
"Ice Torch" <icet...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:a33067ae-a1b9-4902...@n1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Ice Torch
wrote:
> None of these are accepted as authentic by German collectors.
And they ought to know. Case closed! Thanks, Frank.
Ice Torch
Well, I now have a German disagreeing with you, Frank. You were right
to raise the matter of the font, but he has an answer for it:
"First, there is no such thing as 'the' German mint (even though in
the German Empire, Berlin was the biggest one). And then, why would
they want to use, on a 1942 pattern, the same "Fraktur" blackletter
type that according to the Nazi government (1941) was to be phased
out?
The Jaeger catalog ('Die deutschen Münzen seit 1871' - German coins
since 1871) says that in 1941 artists were asked to design 2 and 5 RM
pieces with Hitler's portrait, that 13 designs for a 5 RM piece, plus
7 designs for a 2 RM piece, were submitted, and that Müller-Erfurt's
design was accepted.
Helmut Caspar ('Vom Taler zum Euro' - From the taler to the euro)
dedicates two pages to that design, and also shows the image that you
posted here. He writes that 8 designers were invited to participate,
and I assume that the piece depicted in the book was made based on the
winning design."
So, he has re-convinced me now that this piece is a genuine pattern -
though never a released coin. For Anglo-Saxon readers, the Fraktur
font is what we would loosely call "Gothic script" - though apparently
our loose term is technically incorrect.
Phil.
Frank Provasek
>
> Helmut Caspar ('Vom Taler zum Euro' - From the taler to the euro)
> dedicates two pages to that design, and also shows the image that you
> posted here. He writes that 8 designers were invited to participate,
> and I assume that the piece depicted in the book was made based on the
> winning design."
>
> So, he has re-convinced me now that this piece is a genuine pattern -
> though never a released coin. For Anglo-Saxon readers, the Fraktur
> font is what we would loosely call "Gothic script" - though apparently
> our loose term is technically incorrect.
>
Designs being approved and actual trial pieces produced is a big gap,
and
with so many government records lost in the Allied bombings of Berlin,
it
may be impossible to prove for sure.