Ebay effectively bans ANACS and ICG coins
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Frank Provasek
Apr 17, 2012, 11:01:33 PM4/17/12
to
Newest edict from eBay:
As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact
your coin listings.
Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories
will need to meet the following requirements:
First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade
in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading
company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been
graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded.
Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty
Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
meet these standards.
Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these
standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now,
reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.
Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with
the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be
ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.
We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more
coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new
requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace
demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new
changes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay,
---
There are many good coins in ANACS and ICG slabs which will now be
unmarketable and unsearchable on eBay with these new rules. I spent
several thousand dollars with ANACS recently on varieties and ancients
which are two categories that people will (righly so) never buy unless
attributed and certified by a reputable grading service. Now eBay will
consider these raw. Will be on the phone with my attorney in the
morning.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991
As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact
your coin listings.
Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories
will need to meet the following requirements:
First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade
in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading
company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been
graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded.
Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty
Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
meet these standards.
Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these
standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now,
reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.
Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with
the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be
ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.
We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more
coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new
requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace
demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new
changes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay,
---
There are many good coins in ANACS and ICG slabs which will now be
unmarketable and unsearchable on eBay with these new rules. I spent
several thousand dollars with ANACS recently on varieties and ancients
which are two categories that people will (righly so) never buy unless
attributed and certified by a reputable grading service. Now eBay will
consider these raw. Will be on the phone with my attorney in the
morning.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991
Bremick
Apr 17, 2012, 11:36:05 PM4/17/12
to
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Newest edict from eBay:
As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence葉his update may impact
As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
If you post an auction of an ANACS-slabbed coin, as long as you include good
photos of the coin, bidders can judge for themselves if the coin meets the
grade on the label. You will essentially be letting the coin speak for
itself. With a little practice, you should be able to come up with a
description that describes the coin while meeting the current eBay
requirements. Sure, eBay pisses people off with its constant attempts to
"protect" bidders, but where else can you get this exposure for your coins?
Bite the bullet and make whatever adjustments work for you. Ranting here
won't change eBay policies.
Steve Ehlinger
Apr 18, 2012, 1:06:48 AM4/18/12
to
Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
mention the grading company or grade...I am disabled and have most of my
collection slabbed by IGC and am only able to sell on Ebay. I have a number
of gold coins in ICG slabs that I bought from National Gold Exchange which
were in ICG slabs, and I have done very well selling them on ebay to pay
medical bills, even though the company has gone out of business. . Now
these will have to be considered raw coins, and ICG cannot be mentioned in
the title or description...just like they did with PCI and SEGS a few years
back. I cannot afford to get all these regraded by PCGS or NGC. I hope
ebay will reverse this ruleing.
Steve Ehlinger
mention the grading company or grade...I am disabled and have most of my
collection slabbed by IGC and am only able to sell on Ebay. I have a number
of gold coins in ICG slabs that I bought from National Gold Exchange which
were in ICG slabs, and I have done very well selling them on ebay to pay
medical bills, even though the company has gone out of business. . Now
these will have to be considered raw coins, and ICG cannot be mentioned in
the title or description...just like they did with PCI and SEGS a few years
back. I cannot afford to get all these regraded by PCGS or NGC. I hope
ebay will reverse this ruleing.
Steve Ehlinger
gogu
Apr 18, 2012, 7:15:06 AM4/18/12
to
? "Steve Ehlinger" <se5...@comcast.net> ???a?e st? ľ???ľa
news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
OK, you can't mention the names ICG or ANACS but can you post 4 pictures
for instance, two of them showing the coin in its slab and the other two the
two faces of the coin alone?
If this is allowed, people can see the ICG/ANACS names and you don't violate
the eBay rules.
Is this correct?
Thanks.
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
> mention the grading company or grade...
Question:
> mention the grading company or grade...
OK, you can't mention the names ICG or ANACS but can you post 4 pictures
for instance, two of them showing the coin in its slab and the other two the
two faces of the coin alone?
If this is allowed, people can see the ICG/ANACS names and you don't violate
the eBay rules.
Is this correct?
Thanks.
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
The Trader
Apr 18, 2012, 8:28:11 AM4/18/12
to
"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
your attorney.
Personally, I like (old) ANACS slabs which I feel are accurately graded - the
latest ones, well, not so much.
But it's eBay's playground and they are free to set any rules they desire.
Nobody is forced to sell on eBay.
It may come to the point that eBay regulates itself right out of the coin
auction market and some enterprising individual will come up with an
alternative.
But until that day comes, eBay provides excellent exposure for coins.
Tom Rogers
Apr 18, 2012, 8:37:21 AM4/18/12
to
Please do not use vulgar language!
This is clearly a restraint of trade and does leave one to question as
It has become quite evident they Ebay has no measurable knowledge of
numismatics. How in the world the exclusion of ANACS or ICG grade in item
description protect buyers is simply baffling. They must really believe we
are all idiots.
"The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:jmmbn2$sdk$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> What the fuck does your disability have to do with eBay's latest rules?
> Stop your fucking whining and man up!
>
> "Steve Ehlinger" wrote in message news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
This is clearly a restraint of trade and does leave one to question as
It has become quite evident they Ebay has no measurable knowledge of
numismatics. How in the world the exclusion of ANACS or ICG grade in item
description protect buyers is simply baffling. They must really believe we
are all idiots.
"The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:jmmbn2$sdk$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> What the fuck does your disability have to do with eBay's latest rules?
> Stop your fucking whining and man up!
>
> "Steve Ehlinger" wrote in message news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Message has been deleted
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 9:33:53 AM4/18/12
to
"gogu" <Rumin...@Pula.com> wrote in message
news:4f8ea23b$0$24384$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org...
>? "Steve Ehlinger" <se5...@comcast.net> ???a?e st? µ???µa
>news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
>> mention the grading company or grade...
>
> Question:
> OK, you can't mention the names ICG or ANACS but can you post 4 pictures
> for instance, two of them showing the coin in its slab and the other two
> the two faces of the coin alone?
> If this is allowed, people can see the ICG/ANACS names and you don't
> violate the eBay rules.
> Is this correct?
>
> Thanks.
_________________
>> Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
>> mention the grading company or grade...
>
> Question:
> OK, you can't mention the names ICG or ANACS but can you post 4 pictures
> for instance, two of them showing the coin in its slab and the other two
> the two faces of the coin alone?
> If this is allowed, people can see the ICG/ANACS names and you don't
> violate the eBay rules.
> Is this correct?
>
> Thanks.
Exactly. Coins in these particular TPG slabs may be considered "raw" by
eBay, but bidders aren't aleays that stupid. If your auction clearly shows
an ICG-graded coin in its slab with an MS65 label, why the need to mention
ICG or the numerical grade in the title or description? There are lots of
other descriptors and superlatives that should skate through if you want to
embellish the description. I suspect that most bidders won't be searching
on the terms "ICG" or "ANACS", but rather will more likely look for a
specific coin, date, or series. That ICG or ANACS coin should appear among
the search results and it can be evaluated on its own merits, regardless of
the TPG that slabbed it. Why are so many eBay sellers so quick to adopt
that "Woe is me!" attitude every time eBay changes its rules? Think about
it a little and then adapt.
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 9:41:17 AM4/18/12
to
"Tom Rogers" <tro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:jmmciu$4fu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Please do not use vulgar language!
>
> This is clearly a restraint of trade and does leave one to question
> as It has become quite evident they Ebay has no measurable knowledge of
> numismatics. How in the world the exclusion of ANACS or ICG grade in item
> description protect buyers is simply baffling. They must really believe we
> are all idiots.
No. They're simply showing their own incompetence. Sellers who cry that
>
> This is clearly a restraint of trade and does leave one to question
> as It has become quite evident they Ebay has no measurable knowledge of
> numismatics. How in the world the exclusion of ANACS or ICG grade in item
> description protect buyers is simply baffling. They must really believe we
> are all idiots.
certain TPG -slabbed coins are now "excluded from eBay" are showing their
incompetence, too. There's no restraint of trade involved, anymore that if
your housing development decided to ban weekly yard sales. People are still
free to post their stuff on eBay and very little is "banned" in the coins
category.
Frank Provasek
Apr 18, 2012, 9:46:18 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 8:41 am, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Tom Rogers" <trog...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
With eBay selling about $4 billion a year in the coins category, there
must be at least several hundred million dollars of ANACS and ICG
slabs sold through eBay, which are now unmarketable on that venue.
The biggest complaints on eBay are the "best match" system which makes
inappropriate matches show up in searches, or rankings that are not
based on the most import criteria to the buyers (like RELIABLE
sellers, or sellers NOT from China) But you can't search at ALL based
on a photo.
Even with PCI and SEGS, the company's coins were listed in the
bluesheet and have a definite market value. As long as they are
properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
restraint of trade,
> "Tom Rogers" <trog...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
must be at least several hundred million dollars of ANACS and ICG
slabs sold through eBay, which are now unmarketable on that venue.
The biggest complaints on eBay are the "best match" system which makes
inappropriate matches show up in searches, or rankings that are not
based on the most import criteria to the buyers (like RELIABLE
sellers, or sellers NOT from China) But you can't search at ALL based
on a photo.
Even with PCI and SEGS, the company's coins were listed in the
bluesheet and have a definite market value. As long as they are
properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
restraint of trade,
Frank Provasek
Apr 18, 2012, 9:47:13 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
>
> Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
> your attorney.
I have a flat rate prepaid legal plan.
> "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
>
> Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
> your attorney.
Frank Provasek
Apr 18, 2012, 10:00:49 AM4/18/12
to
> Sellers who cry that
> certain TPG -slabbed coins are now "excluded from eBay" are showing their
> incompetence, too. There's no restraint of trade involved, anymore that if
> your housing development decided to ban weekly yard sales. People are still
> free to post their stuff on eBay and very little is "banned" in the coins
> category.
You are totally wrong here, Bremick.
> certain TPG -slabbed coins are now "excluded from eBay" are showing their
> incompetence, too. There's no restraint of trade involved, anymore that if
> your housing development decided to ban weekly yard sales. People are still
> free to post their stuff on eBay and very little is "banned" in the coins
> category.
If the Ebay charges the same to list each item, but certain brand
names cannot
be listed or mentioned, it's neither a free market nor a level playing
field. It IS
restraint of trade, If your housing development banned yard
sales...that's fine.
What's NOT fine is for a housing development to ALLOW yard sales, but
tell me I can sell my old set of Titleist clubs but not my Callaways.
(or not
MENTION the Callaway name....Or that selling a Ford is OK, but a Chevy
is "unapproved" and you can technically sell it, but not mention the
make, model, condition, or bluebook value...then claim that the
sellers who
are trying to get a fair market price are "crying" because people can
find all that
out from a PHOTO.
Frank Galikanokus
Apr 18, 2012, 10:03:18 AM4/18/12
to
title and/or description.
Am I missing something?
JAM
Ken Barr
Apr 18, 2012, 11:51:50 AM4/18/12
to
In article <jmmg9u$9re$1...@dont-email.me>, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net>
wrote:
IIRC, Larry Briggs raised a stink and threatened a lawsuite when eBay
put SEGS and PCI into "second-class status" a few years ago. Has
anybody asked Larry lately how successful he has been with that attempt?
All eBay has done now is put ANACS and ICG into the same status and add
a few more restrictions. If someone really wants to spend several years
and several hunnertthousand dollers litigating this decision, more power
to them ... Otherwise, it's typical Don Quixote-like r.c.c. blustery.
--
Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society May 6
wrote:
put SEGS and PCI into "second-class status" a few years ago. Has
anybody asked Larry lately how successful he has been with that attempt?
All eBay has done now is put ANACS and ICG into the same status and add
a few more restrictions. If someone really wants to spend several years
and several hunnertthousand dollers litigating this decision, more power
to them ... Otherwise, it's typical Don Quixote-like r.c.c. blustery.
--
Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society May 6
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 12:30:16 PM4/18/12
to
news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
--------------------------
Why do you have so much trouble understanding that products of those certain
companies ARE NOT BANNED from eBay. Ebay simply restricts the language used
to describe them. Adapt and be innovative. If you put up an 1893-S MS60
Morgan in an lower tier slab, potential bidders will find it as long as you
include the appropriate info in the title. MS60 could be replaced with Unc.
Your photos will determine how bidders react, not the slab. Don't be such a
whiner.
Why do you have so much trouble understanding that products of those certain
companies ARE NOT BANNED from eBay. Ebay simply restricts the language used
to describe them. Adapt and be innovative. If you put up an 1893-S MS60
Morgan in an lower tier slab, potential bidders will find it as long as you
include the appropriate info in the title. MS60 could be replaced with Unc.
Your photos will determine how bidders react, not the slab. Don't be such a
whiner.
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 12:37:29 PM4/18/12
to
news:e4dec859-e70a-43f5...@f37g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
DAMMIT! Ebay is NOT telling you you can't sell your ICG stuff there.
You apparently insist on including specific details than eBay disallows for
those particular slabs. You don't seem to realize that the photos will sell
your coins, not your flowery prose or your "helpful" estimate of value.
In your case, mentioning ICG in the title might actually turn bidders away.
If you don't understand this, find some other place to sell your crap and
stop whining here about how eBay is persecuting you everytime they come up
with new rules. .
You apparently insist on including specific details than eBay disallows for
those particular slabs. You don't seem to realize that the photos will sell
your coins, not your flowery prose or your "helpful" estimate of value.
In your case, mentioning ICG in the title might actually turn bidders away.
If you don't understand this, find some other place to sell your crap and
stop whining here about how eBay is persecuting you everytime they come up
with new rules. .
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 12:39:14 PM4/18/12
to
news:d899ca0b-61bc-41b3...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
-------
A wise move, considering your attitude.
A wise move, considering your attitude.
Ken Barr
Apr 18, 2012, 12:39:41 PM4/18/12
to
In article <ken-96F328.0...@nntp.aioe.org>,
Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:
[snip]
I did some Googling and found that the lawsuite of
National Numismatic Certification, LLC (NNC), ASA Accugrade, Inc (ACG),
PCI Coin Grading, Inc (PCI), Treasure Gallery, Inc., Sovereign Entities
Grading Service, Inc.(SEGS) and Centsles, Inc.
versus
the American Numismatic Association (ANA), the Professional Numismatists
Guild (PNG) and eBay
was filed on January 10, 2008 (U S District Court, Middle District of
Florida, Orlando Division case number 6:08-cv-42-Orl-19GJK. After two
years of legal wrangling, plaintiffs' Amended Complaint was dismissed
without prejudice and plaintiffs were given ten days to file another
amended complaint.
http://blog.internetcases.com/about/library/national-numismatic-certifica
tion-v-ebay/
for the REALLY, really, REALLY gory details if anyone is interested ...
The trail seems to run cold at that point ... I suspect that the
plaintiffs failed to file a timely amended complaint and the case was
then dismissed with prejudice. If anyone out there in r.c.c-land has
any additional information, I'd love to see it ...
Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> IIRC, Larry Briggs raised a stink and threatened a lawsuite when eBay
> put SEGS and PCI into "second-class status" a few years ago. Has
> anybody asked Larry lately how successful he has been with that attempt?
(Following up on my own post ...)
> IIRC, Larry Briggs raised a stink and threatened a lawsuite when eBay
> put SEGS and PCI into "second-class status" a few years ago. Has
> anybody asked Larry lately how successful he has been with that attempt?
I did some Googling and found that the lawsuite of
National Numismatic Certification, LLC (NNC), ASA Accugrade, Inc (ACG),
PCI Coin Grading, Inc (PCI), Treasure Gallery, Inc., Sovereign Entities
Grading Service, Inc.(SEGS) and Centsles, Inc.
versus
the American Numismatic Association (ANA), the Professional Numismatists
Guild (PNG) and eBay
was filed on January 10, 2008 (U S District Court, Middle District of
Florida, Orlando Division case number 6:08-cv-42-Orl-19GJK. After two
years of legal wrangling, plaintiffs' Amended Complaint was dismissed
without prejudice and plaintiffs were given ten days to file another
amended complaint.
http://blog.internetcases.com/about/library/national-numismatic-certifica
tion-v-ebay/
for the REALLY, really, REALLY gory details if anyone is interested ...
The trail seems to run cold at that point ... I suspect that the
plaintiffs failed to file a timely amended complaint and the case was
then dismissed with prejudice. If anyone out there in r.c.c-land has
any additional information, I'd love to see it ...
The Trader
Apr 18, 2012, 1:21:15 PM4/18/12
to
"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
multi-zillion dollar corporation like eBay on a sol-called "flat rate prepaid
legal plan".
I strongly suspect you are prevaricating (again).
Jon Purkey
Apr 18, 2012, 1:36:20 PM4/18/12
to
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:28:11 -0400, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
>your attorney.
>Personally, I like (old) ANACS slabs which I feel are accurately graded - the
>latest ones, well, not so much.
I think that is somewhat true with any grading company. That is, newer
>Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
>your attorney.
>Personally, I like (old) ANACS slabs which I feel are accurately graded - the
>latest ones, well, not so much.
grades being higher than what the same coin would of been graded years
ago.
Altough it would have complicated things more, I sort of wish eBay had
come up with a set of rules for "mid-tier" grading companies like
ANACS, so they are not grouped with bottom tier companies like SGS
which grades nearly everything MS-70 or PR70. There are definitely
some grading companies that buyers need to be protected from, but
ANACS and ICG should not be amoung them, even though they are not on
the same level as PCGS and NGC.
Although not expensive coins, I have been happy with the ANACS coins I
have bought, including an AU-58 Indian Head Cent which looks better
than a couple raw uncirculated Indian Heads I had bought previously
before knowing any better.
oly
Apr 18, 2012, 1:34:13 PM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 12:21 pm, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> news:d899ca0b-61bc-41b3...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> >news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
>
> > Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time
> > for
> > your attorney.
> >I have a flat rate prepaid legal plan.
>
> I doubt any attorney, yours included, would take on a major law suit involving a
> multi-zillion dollar corporation like eBay on a sol-called "flat rate prepaid
> legal plan".
> I strongly suspect you are prevaricating (again).
Frank is a hoot. I wonder if he gets "Meals on Wheels" for free.
> "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> news:d899ca0b-61bc-41b3...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> >news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
>
> > Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time
> > for
> > your attorney.
> >I have a flat rate prepaid legal plan.
>
> I doubt any attorney, yours included, would take on a major law suit involving a
> multi-zillion dollar corporation like eBay on a sol-called "flat rate prepaid
> legal plan".
> I strongly suspect you are prevaricating (again).
oly
The Trader
Apr 18, 2012, 2:33:31 PM4/18/12
to
I suspect eBay's motive for this is due to buyer taking advantage of the "Buyer
Protection Plan" - getting ICG or ANACS coins that were grossly misgraded and
demanding "buyer protection", thus giving eBay headaches it doesn't want or
need.
No where do I see where ICG/ANACS slabs can't be sold. They just have to be sold
as "raw".
Good photographs of the coins will probably suffice to sell them.
Frank is like Chicken Little, constantly proclaiming his numismatic sky is
falling every time eBay tightens its sales policies.
I'm sure he'll be back here whining about how eBay and his "enemies" are
conspiring to put him out of business.
Some things just never change.
Message has been deleted
oly
Apr 18, 2012, 3:39:36 PM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 2:06 pm, "Richard Ferber" <ri...@mindspring.net> wrote:
> This is playing out like eBay's rise to prominence in the first place. All
> other auction sites went away, eBay's fees tripled.
>
> All other grading services will now go away, PCGS and NGC will triple their
> fees.
> > Some things just never change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Anybody who cares about getting top dollar on resale is already
exclusively using the top two coin slobbers anyway. None of the coin
slobbers mean poopey to e-bay. I wasn't aware of it until recently,
but yes, I am now convinced, apparently e-bay really is trying to
reduce the number of small sellers in favor of the big boys. And,
FWIW, if you were ebay, would you want to vouch for Frank??? Frank
probably is justifiably paranoid, but that's no reason not to tease
him mercilessly.
oly
> This is playing out like eBay's rise to prominence in the first place. All
> other auction sites went away, eBay's fees tripled.
>
> All other grading services will now go away, PCGS and NGC will triple their
> fees.
>
> "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
>
> news:jmn1dj$akj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Anybody who cares about getting top dollar on resale is already
exclusively using the top two coin slobbers anyway. None of the coin
slobbers mean poopey to e-bay. I wasn't aware of it until recently,
but yes, I am now convinced, apparently e-bay really is trying to
reduce the number of small sellers in favor of the big boys. And,
FWIW, if you were ebay, would you want to vouch for Frank??? Frank
probably is justifiably paranoid, but that's no reason not to tease
him mercilessly.
oly
Frank Provasek
Apr 18, 2012, 4:45:45 PM4/18/12
to
oly
Apr 18, 2012, 5:40:12 PM4/18/12
to
John
Apr 18, 2012, 5:18:46 PM4/18/12
to
ANACS has issued a statement on www.anacs.com regarding this on the homepage
of their website. It would seem they're prepared to come into compliance
with respect to cert verification by the 5/30 deadline. How eBay reacts if
and when they do is anyone's guess.
-------------------------
John
President, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors
news:8d4d1bee-1a7f-41ec...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
of their website. It would seem they're prepared to come into compliance
with respect to cert verification by the 5/30 deadline. How eBay reacts if
and when they do is anyone's guess.
-------------------------
John
President, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors
news:8d4d1bee-1a7f-41ec...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
The Trader
Apr 18, 2012, 6:10:11 PM4/18/12
to
"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
...it's all about "selling coins at higher price points"
http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI
-------------------------------
Waa waa waa I'm widdle Fwankie Pwovasicko and eBay is being mean to me again!
waa waa waa
The Trader
Apr 18, 2012, 6:10:11 PM4/18/12
to
"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
...it's all about "selling coins at higher price points"
http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI
Mailman1959
Apr 18, 2012, 8:22:40 PM4/18/12
to
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>Even with PCI and SEGS, the company's coins were listed in the
>bluesheet and have a definite market value. As long as they are
>properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
>claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
>which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
>sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
>such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
>restraint of trade,
EBAY is a public service. You do not have the "right" to sell anything YOU
>bluesheet and have a definite market value. As long as they are
>properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
>claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
>which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
>sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
>such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
>restraint of trade,
want on THEIR site. They have a clause in their terms of use regarding
"community trust", once THEY feel uncomfortable with an item because of user
feedback, THEY have the right to refuse selling it
Message has been deleted
oly
Apr 18, 2012, 7:30:29 PM4/18/12
to
finest U.S. coins, ALL in third-rate slabs, and no money (and no guts)
whatseover to get these GEMS "crossed over" into something better.
oly
Frank Provasek
Apr 18, 2012, 8:41:10 PM4/18/12
to
ANACS coins off eBay and recently spent over $2000 with ANACS in
grading fees with the express purpose of selling such graded coins on
eBay based on their many statements that eBay was an approved grading
service, being forced to either sell these coins as "raw" or pay some
$3,500 additional to get them slabbed by NGC or PCGS plus the loss of
market value and liquidity of my ANACS and ICG stock would result in a
well over $10,000 loss for me.
Frank Provasek
Apr 18, 2012, 8:54:38 PM4/18/12
to
and NGC dealer and use those services when it makes sense.
But for a $75 to $200 coin, do you pay either of the major
2 companies $35 per slab or ANACS $12 per slab for a comparable 2 week
turnaround time? Plus PCGS charges $24 extra to list a VAM or Sheldon
number on the slab label...ANACS charges $5
Nor will PCGS slab ancients, Civil War Tokens, So-called dollars,
or medals (except US Mint medals.)
Robert T
Apr 18, 2012, 9:19:29 PM4/18/12
to
Just wondering ANACS and ICG pitched a fit about being left out on the eBay
list of TWO prefered TPGs.
I remember J.T. Stanton was fit to be tied when he quit his old job to take
over PCI after Brian Beardsley
died and a couple of weeks later eBay said PCI couldn't be listed PCI soon
had to declare bankruptcy.
Where did eBay get their idea about only two TPGs should be
allowed it the auction's description? I peresonally do not agreed with just
two as when they made
changes before and made it four I think it was. Agreed that there are many
TPGs that are more
like Third World Graders and give Mint State out like pieces of candy.
news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Newest edict from eBay:
As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact
your coin listings.
Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories
will need to meet the following requirements:
First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade
in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading
company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been
graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded.
Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty
Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
meet these standards.
Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these
standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now,
reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.
Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with
the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be
ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.
We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more
coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new
requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace
demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new
changes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay,
---
There are many good coins in ANACS and ICG slabs which will now be
unmarketable and unsearchable on eBay with these new rules. I spent
several thousand dollars with ANACS recently on varieties and ancients
which are two categories that people will (righly so) never buy unless
attributed and certified by a reputable grading service. Now eBay will
consider these raw. Will be on the phone with my attorney in the
morning.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991
list of TWO prefered TPGs.
I remember J.T. Stanton was fit to be tied when he quit his old job to take
over PCI after Brian Beardsley
died and a couple of weeks later eBay said PCI couldn't be listed PCI soon
had to declare bankruptcy.
Where did eBay get their idea about only two TPGs should be
allowed it the auction's description? I peresonally do not agreed with just
two as when they made
changes before and made it four I think it was. Agreed that there are many
TPGs that are more
like Third World Graders and give Mint State out like pieces of candy.
news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Newest edict from eBay:
As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact
your coin listings.
Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories
will need to meet the following requirements:
First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade
in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading
company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been
graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded.
Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty
Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
meet these standards.
Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these
standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now,
reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.
Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with
the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be
ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.
We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more
coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new
requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace
demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new
changes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay,
---
There are many good coins in ANACS and ICG slabs which will now be
unmarketable and unsearchable on eBay with these new rules. I spent
several thousand dollars with ANACS recently on varieties and ancients
which are two categories that people will (righly so) never buy unless
attributed and certified by a reputable grading service. Now eBay will
consider these raw. Will be on the phone with my attorney in the
morning.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 9:35:37 PM4/18/12
to
news:6043eb49-24c1-4301...@36g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
-----------------
Obviously, you should have given eBay a heads up to hold off on any changes
to requirements until you had received the coins you sent to ANACS and ICG
to be graded and slabbed with the express purpose to be sold in eBay
auctions.
Do you really believe that a bidder will look at your clear auction photos
of coins in ANACS or ICG slabs and consider them to be "raw"? Do you
really believe you would have obtained a higher bid had you been able to
include the terms ANACS or ICG and an MS grade in the description? Don't
your photos make that clear? Are your auctions designed tp appeal only to
those who will buy coins that eBay approves of? If you're still worried
about all this, I have to wonder what kind of customers you attract anyway?
Obviously, you should have given eBay a heads up to hold off on any changes
to requirements until you had received the coins you sent to ANACS and ICG
to be graded and slabbed with the express purpose to be sold in eBay
auctions.
Do you really believe that a bidder will look at your clear auction photos
of coins in ANACS or ICG slabs and consider them to be "raw"? Do you
really believe you would have obtained a higher bid had you been able to
include the terms ANACS or ICG and an MS grade in the description? Don't
your photos make that clear? Are your auctions designed tp appeal only to
those who will buy coins that eBay approves of? If you're still worried
about all this, I have to wonder what kind of customers you attract anyway?
Lance
Apr 18, 2012, 9:39:30 PM4/18/12
to
"Frank Galikanokus" <FrankGal...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4F8EC9A6...@nospam.net...
> gogu wrote:
>>
>
> I don't see where the new policy say you cannot use the name of the
> grading company in the
> title and/or description.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
If the coin is in a slab other than PCGS and NGC then it will be considered
>>
>
> I don't see where the new policy say you cannot use the name of the
> grading company in the
> title and/or description.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
raw.
Currently, the rules for raw coins prohibit referencing any TPG in the title
and auction listing. Unless the rules are changed, sellers of ANACS coins
will not be allowed to mention ANACS or the numerical grade in the title or
the listing. Of course pictures will tell the story. But searches will not
be possible.
Lance
Bremick
Apr 18, 2012, 10:08:34 PM4/18/12
to
"Lance" <Lanc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jmnqdn$4mv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
the "other" grading services can decide if it's a coin they want to bid on,
regardless of what eBay prefers. The name of the TPG along with the
assigned grade should be apparent in auction photos (wink. wink) without
having to mention the initials in the text or description. Otherwise, how
many actually search specifically on terms ANACS, PCI, ICG, etc. as opposed
to a specific coin date, denomination, series, etc. I've seen plenty of
eBay auctions of PCGS and NGC coins where the coin looks like crap.
Regardless of how many time I see the TPG initials and MS grades in titles
and text, I wouldn't be apt to bid just because eBay has approved of the
grading service.
There are some people out there who apparently like to have their coins
slabbed cheaply by one of the "unapproved" services and then hype them to
the less-informed on eBay as equal to the Big Two, just because, hey, the
coins are in a slab.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
NM3COINS
Apr 19, 2012, 1:38:31 AM4/19/12
to
This decision clearly has PNG written all over it. No discussion with the
eBay community but eBay has been promoting PNG dealers right and left.
eBay is turning in to a bureacratic, government like agency and PNG is doing
some serious lobbying.
PNG dealers don't like the small businesses selling on eBay cutting into
their profit margins. So they are working with eBay to implement their
rules. How much longer before eBay implements PNG minumum asset
requirements?
I am not saying that PNG is a bad group, but I personally don't believe they
represent the totality that is the eBay numismatic community. I've never
appreciated PNG claiming ANACS was "second tier" and their alliances with
eBay seem to bear the same fruit. As far as first or second tier, let the
market decide.
Specifically regarding eBay's latest edict, I've never had a bad experience
when purchasing or selling an ANACS graded product. For many of us who
sell on smaller margins, authenticating a coin with ANACS has always been
the way to go.
eBay community but eBay has been promoting PNG dealers right and left.
eBay is turning in to a bureacratic, government like agency and PNG is doing
some serious lobbying.
PNG dealers don't like the small businesses selling on eBay cutting into
their profit margins. So they are working with eBay to implement their
rules. How much longer before eBay implements PNG minumum asset
requirements?
I am not saying that PNG is a bad group, but I personally don't believe they
represent the totality that is the eBay numismatic community. I've never
appreciated PNG claiming ANACS was "second tier" and their alliances with
eBay seem to bear the same fruit. As far as first or second tier, let the
market decide.
Specifically regarding eBay's latest edict, I've never had a bad experience
when purchasing or selling an ANACS graded product. For many of us who
sell on smaller margins, authenticating a coin with ANACS has always been
the way to go.
Bremick
Apr 19, 2012, 8:14:43 AM4/19/12