Ebay effectively bans ANACS and ICG coins

[Frank Provasek]

Newest edict from eBay:

As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact
your coin listings.

Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories
will need to meet the following requirements:

First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade
in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading
company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been
graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded.
Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty
Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
meet these standards.
Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these
standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now,
reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.

Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with
the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be
ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.

We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more
coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new
requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace
demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new
changes.

As always, thank you for selling on eBay,

---

There are many good coins in ANACS and ICG slabs which will now be
unmarketable and unsearchable on eBay with these new rules. I spent
several thousand dollars with ANACS recently on varieties and ancients
which are two categories that people will (righly so) never buy unless
attributed and certified by a reputable grading service. Now eBay will
consider these raw. Will be on the phone with my attorney in the
morning.

----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991

[Bremick]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

Newest edict from eBay:

As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,

and coins policy to help foster that confidence葉his update may impact

--------------

If you post an auction of an ANACS-slabbed coin, as long as you include good
photos of the coin, bidders can judge for themselves if the coin meets the
grade on the label. You will essentially be letting the coin speak for
itself. With a little practice, you should be able to come up with a
description that describes the coin while meeting the current eBay
requirements. Sure, eBay pisses people off with its constant attempts to
"protect" bidders, but where else can you get this exposure for your coins?
Bite the bullet and make whatever adjustments work for you. Ranting here
won't change eBay policies.

[Steve Ehlinger]

Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
mention the grading company or grade...I am disabled and have most of my
collection slabbed by IGC and am only able to sell on Ebay. I have a number
of gold coins in ICG slabs that I bought from National Gold Exchange which
were in ICG slabs, and I have done very well selling them on ebay to pay
medical bills, even though the company has gone out of business. . Now
these will have to be considered raw coins, and ICG cannot be mentioned in
the title or description...just like they did with PCI and SEGS a few years
back. I cannot afford to get all these regraded by PCGS or NGC. I hope
ebay will reverse this ruleing.

Steve Ehlinger

[gogu]

? "Steve Ehlinger" <se5...@comcast.net> ???a?e st? ľ???ľa
news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
> mention the grading company or grade...

Question:
OK, you can't mention the names ICG or ANACS but can you post 4 pictures
for instance, two of them showing the coin in its slab and the other two the
two faces of the coin alone?
If this is allowed, people can see the ICG/ANACS names and you don't violate
the eBay rules.
Is this correct?

Thanks.


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

> Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.

Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
your attorney.
Personally, I like (old) ANACS slabs which I feel are accurately graded - the
latest ones, well, not so much.
But it's eBay's playground and they are free to set any rules they desire.
Nobody is forced to sell on eBay.
It may come to the point that eBay regulates itself right out of the coin
auction market and some enterprising individual will come up with an
alternative.
But until that day comes, eBay provides excellent exposure for coins.

[Tom Rogers]

Please do not use vulgar language!

This is clearly a restraint of trade and does leave one to question as
It has become quite evident they Ebay has no measurable knowledge of
numismatics. How in the world the exclusion of ANACS or ICG grade in item
description protect buyers is simply baffling. They must really believe we
are all idiots.




"The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:jmmbn2$sdk$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> What the fuck does your disability have to do with eBay's latest rules?
> Stop your fucking whining and man up!
>
> "Steve Ehlinger" wrote in message news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Bremick]

"gogu" <Rumin...@Pula.com> wrote in message
news:4f8ea23b$0$24384$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org...
>? "Steve Ehlinger" <se5...@comcast.net> ???a?e st? µ???µa

>news:jmli6a$scj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Apparently ICG coins will be effectively wiped off ebay...if you cant
>> mention the grading company or grade...
>
> Question:
> OK, you can't mention the names ICG or ANACS but can you post 4 pictures
> for instance, two of them showing the coin in its slab and the other two
> the two faces of the coin alone?
> If this is allowed, people can see the ICG/ANACS names and you don't
> violate the eBay rules.
> Is this correct?
>
> Thanks.

_________________

Exactly. Coins in these particular TPG slabs may be considered "raw" by
eBay, but bidders aren't aleays that stupid. If your auction clearly shows
an ICG-graded coin in its slab with an MS65 label, why the need to mention
ICG or the numerical grade in the title or description? There are lots of
other descriptors and superlatives that should skate through if you want to
embellish the description. I suspect that most bidders won't be searching
on the terms "ICG" or "ANACS", but rather will more likely look for a
specific coin, date, or series. That ICG or ANACS coin should appear among
the search results and it can be evaluated on its own merits, regardless of
the TPG that slabbed it. Why are so many eBay sellers so quick to adopt
that "Woe is me!" attitude every time eBay changes its rules? Think about
it a little and then adapt.

[Bremick]

"Tom Rogers" <tro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:jmmciu$4fu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Please do not use vulgar language!
>
> This is clearly a restraint of trade and does leave one to question
> as It has become quite evident they Ebay has no measurable knowledge of
> numismatics. How in the world the exclusion of ANACS or ICG grade in item
> description protect buyers is simply baffling. They must really believe we
> are all idiots.

No. They're simply showing their own incompetence. Sellers who cry that
certain TPG -slabbed coins are now "excluded from eBay" are showing their
incompetence, too. There's no restraint of trade involved, anymore that if
your housing development decided to ban weekly yard sales. People are still
free to post their stuff on eBay and very little is "banned" in the coins
category.

[Frank Provasek]

On Apr 18, 8:41 am, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Tom Rogers" <trog...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

With eBay selling about $4 billion a year in the coins category, there
must be at least several hundred million dollars of ANACS and ICG
slabs sold through eBay, which are now unmarketable on that venue.
The biggest complaints on eBay are the "best match" system which makes
inappropriate matches show up in searches, or rankings that are not
based on the most import criteria to the buyers (like RELIABLE
sellers, or sellers NOT from China) But you can't search at ALL based
on a photo.

Even with PCI and SEGS, the company's coins were listed in the
bluesheet and have a definite market value. As long as they are
properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
restraint of trade,

[Frank Provasek]

On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> "Frank Provasek"  wrote in message
>
> news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
>
> Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
> your attorney.

I have a flat rate prepaid legal plan.

[Frank Provasek]

On Apr 18, 8:41 am, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:

> Sellers who cry that
> certain TPG -slabbed coins are now "excluded from eBay" are showing their
> incompetence, too.  There's no restraint of trade involved, anymore that if
> your housing development decided to ban weekly yard sales.  People are still
> free to post their stuff on eBay and very little is "banned" in the coins
> category.

You are totally wrong here, Bremick.

If the Ebay charges the same to list each item, but certain brand
names cannot
be listed or mentioned, it's neither a free market nor a level playing
field. It IS
restraint of trade, If your housing development banned yard
sales...that's fine.
What's NOT fine is for a housing development to ALLOW yard sales, but
tell me I can sell my old set of Titleist clubs but not my Callaways.
(or not
MENTION the Callaway name....Or that selling a Ford is OK, but a Chevy
is "unapproved" and you can technically sell it, but not mention the
make, model, condition, or bluebook value...then claim that the
sellers who
are trying to get a fair market price are "crying" because people can
find all that
out from a PHOTO.

[Frank Galikanokus]

I don't see where the new policy say you cannot use the name of the grading company in the
title and/or description.

Am I missing something?

JAM

[Ken Barr]

In article <jmmg9u$9re$1...@dont-email.me>, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net>
wrote:

IIRC, Larry Briggs raised a stink and threatened a lawsuite when eBay
put SEGS and PCI into "second-class status" a few years ago. Has
anybody asked Larry lately how successful he has been with that attempt?

All eBay has done now is put ANACS and ICG into the same status and add
a few more restrictions. If someone really wants to spend several years
and several hunnertthousand dollers litigating this decision, more power
to them ... Otherwise, it's typical Don Quixote-like r.c.c. blustery.

--
Ken Barr Numismatics        email:  k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541             website:  http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA  95152     Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247      NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society May 6

[Bremick]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

--------------------------

Why do you have so much trouble understanding that products of those certain
companies ARE NOT BANNED from eBay. Ebay simply restricts the language used
to describe them. Adapt and be innovative. If you put up an 1893-S MS60
Morgan in an lower tier slab, potential bidders will find it as long as you
include the appropriate info in the title. MS60 could be replaced with Unc.
Your photos will determine how bidders react, not the slab. Don't be such a
whiner.

[Bremick]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:e4dec859-e70a-43f5...@f37g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

DAMMIT! Ebay is NOT telling you you can't sell your ICG stuff there.
You apparently insist on including specific details than eBay disallows for
those particular slabs. You don't seem to realize that the photos will sell
your coins, not your flowery prose or your "helpful" estimate of value.
In your case, mentioning ICG in the title might actually turn bidders away.
If you don't understand this, find some other place to sell your crap and
stop whining here about how eBay is persecuting you everytime they come up
with new rules. .

[Bremick]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:d899ca0b-61bc-41b3...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

-------

A wise move, considering your attitude.

[Ken Barr]

In article <ken-96F328.0...@nntp.aioe.org>,
Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:

[snip]

>
> IIRC, Larry Briggs raised a stink and threatened a lawsuite when eBay
> put SEGS and PCI into "second-class status" a few years ago. Has
> anybody asked Larry lately how successful he has been with that attempt?

(Following up on my own post ...)

I did some Googling and found that the lawsuite of

National Numismatic Certification, LLC (NNC), ASA Accugrade, Inc (ACG),
PCI Coin Grading, Inc (PCI), Treasure Gallery, Inc., Sovereign Entities
Grading Service, Inc.(SEGS) and Centsles, Inc.

versus

the American Numismatic Association (ANA), the Professional Numismatists
Guild (PNG) and eBay

was filed on January 10, 2008 (U S District Court, Middle District of
Florida, Orlando Division case number 6:08-cv-42-Orl-19GJK. After two
years of legal wrangling, plaintiffs' Amended Complaint was dismissed
without prejudice and plaintiffs were given ten days to file another
amended complaint.

http://blog.internetcases.com/about/library/national-numismatic-certifica
tion-v-ebay/

for the REALLY, really, REALLY gory details if anyone is interested ...

The trail seems to run cold at that point ... I suspect that the
plaintiffs failed to file a timely amended complaint and the case was
then dismissed with prejudice. If anyone out there in r.c.c-land has
any additional information, I'd love to see it ...

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message

news:d899ca0b-61bc-41b3...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

I doubt any attorney, yours included, would take on a major law suit involving a
multi-zillion dollar corporation like eBay on a sol-called "flat rate prepaid
legal plan".
I strongly suspect you are prevaricating (again).

[Jon Purkey]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:28:11 -0400, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:

>Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time for
>your attorney.
>Personally, I like (old) ANACS slabs which I feel are accurately graded - the
>latest ones, well, not so much.

I think that is somewhat true with any grading company. That is, newer
grades being higher than what the same coin would of been graded years
ago.

Altough it would have complicated things more, I sort of wish eBay had
come up with a set of rules for "mid-tier" grading companies like
ANACS, so they are not grouped with bottom tier companies like SGS
which grades nearly everything MS-70 or PR70. There are definitely
some grading companies that buyers need to be protected from, but
ANACS and ICG should not be amoung them, even though they are not on
the same level as PCGS and NGC.

Although not expensive coins, I have been happy with the ANACS coins I
have bought, including an AU-58 Indian Head Cent which looks better
than a couple raw uncirculated Indian Heads I had bought previously
before knowing any better.

[oly]

On Apr 18, 12:21 pm, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> "Frank Provasek"  wrote in message
>
> news:d899ca0b-61bc-41b3...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > "Frank Provasek"  wrote in message
>
> >news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Will be on the phone with my attorney in the morning.
>
> > Which will accomplish exactly nothing other than generate some billable time
> > for
> > your attorney.
> >I have a flat rate prepaid legal plan.
>
> I doubt any attorney, yours included, would take on a major law suit involving a
> multi-zillion dollar corporation like eBay on a sol-called "flat rate prepaid
> legal plan".
> I strongly suspect you are prevaricating (again).

Frank is a hoot. I wonder if he gets "Meals on Wheels" for free.

oly

[The Trader]

I suspect eBay's motive for this is due to buyer taking advantage of the "Buyer
Protection Plan" - getting ICG or ANACS coins that were grossly misgraded and
demanding "buyer protection", thus giving eBay headaches it doesn't want or
need.
No where do I see where ICG/ANACS slabs can't be sold. They just have to be sold
as "raw".
Good photographs of the coins will probably suffice to sell them.
Frank is like Chicken Little, constantly proclaiming his numismatic sky is
falling every time eBay tightens its sales policies.
I'm sure he'll be back here whining about how eBay and his "enemies" are
conspiring to put him out of business.
Some things just never change.

[oly]

On Apr 18, 2:06 pm, "Richard Ferber" <ri...@mindspring.net> wrote:
> This is playing out like eBay's rise to prominence in the first place. All
> other auction sites went away, eBay's fees tripled.
>
> All other grading services will now go away, PCGS and NGC will triple their
> fees.

>
> "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
>

> news:jmn1dj$akj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> > Some things just never change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Anybody who cares about getting top dollar on resale is already
exclusively using the top two coin slobbers anyway. None of the coin
slobbers mean poopey to e-bay. I wasn't aware of it until recently,
but yes, I am now convinced, apparently e-bay really is trying to
reduce the number of small sellers in favor of the big boys. And,
FWIW, if you were ebay, would you want to vouch for Frank??? Frank
probably is justifiably paranoid, but that's no reason not to tease
him mercilessly.

oly

[Frank Provasek]

No Finnan, it's all about "selling coins at higher price points"

http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI

[oly]

Gawd Frank, that's boring. This is better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqM7AFL4ixA&sns=em

oly

[John]

ANACS has issued a statement on www.anacs.com regarding this on the homepage
of their website. It would seem they're prepared to come into compliance
with respect to cert verification by the 5/30 deadline. How eBay reacts if
and when they do is anyone's guess.

-------------------------
John
President, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:8d4d1bee-1a7f-41ec...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message

news:8d4d1bee-1a7f-41ec...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
...it's all about "selling coins at higher price points"

http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI
-------------------------------
Waa waa waa I'm widdle Fwankie Pwovasicko and eBay is being mean to me again!
waa waa waa

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message

news:8d4d1bee-1a7f-41ec...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
...it's all about "selling coins at higher price points"

http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI

[Mailman1959]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>Even with PCI and SEGS, the company's coins were listed in the
>bluesheet and have a definite market value. As long as they are
>properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
>claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
>which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
>sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
>such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
>restraint of trade,

EBAY is a public service. You do not have the "right" to sell anything YOU
want on THEIR site. They have a clause in their terms of use regarding
"community trust", once THEY feel uncomfortable with an item because of user
feedback, THEY have the right to refuse selling it

[oly]

Fwankie, qween of the bastage third-rate slab. The world's very
finest U.S. coins, ALL in third-rate slabs, and no money (and no guts)
whatseover to get these GEMS "crossed over" into something better.

oly

[Frank Provasek]

My lawyer has already sent eBay a notice that since I have bought
ANACS coins off eBay and recently spent over $2000 with ANACS in
grading fees with the express purpose of selling such graded coins on
eBay based on their many statements that eBay was an approved grading
service, being forced to either sell these coins as "raw" or pay some
$3,500 additional to get them slabbed by NGC or PCGS plus the loss of
market value and liquidity of my ANACS and ICG stock would result in a
well over $10,000 loss for me.

[Frank Provasek]

ANACS is certainly not a third-rate slab, and I am an authorized PCGS
and NGC dealer and use those services when it makes sense.

But for a $75 to $200 coin, do you pay either of the major
2 companies $35 per slab or ANACS $12 per slab for a comparable 2 week
turnaround time? Plus PCGS charges $24 extra to list a VAM or Sheldon
number on the slab label...ANACS charges $5

Nor will PCGS slab ancients, Civil War Tokens, So-called dollars,
or medals (except US Mint medals.)

[Robert T]

Just wondering ANACS and ICG pitched a fit about being left out on the eBay
list of TWO prefered TPGs.
I remember J.T. Stanton was fit to be tied when he quit his old job to take
over PCI after Brian Beardsley
died and a couple of weeks later eBay said PCI couldn't be listed PCI soon
had to declare bankruptcy.

Where did eBay get their idea about only two TPGs should be
allowed it the auction's description? I peresonally do not agreed with just
two as when they made
changes before and made it four I think it was. Agreed that there are many
TPGs that are more
like Third World Graders and give Mint State out like pieces of candy.

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:9e7d6f90-348e-47cf...@h12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Newest edict from eBay:

As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers
have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with
confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency,
and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact
your coin listings.

Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories
will need to meet the following requirements:

First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade
in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading
company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been
graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded.
Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty
Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
meet these standards.
Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these
standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now,
reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.

Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with
the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be
ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.

We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more
coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new
requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace
demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new
changes.

As always, thank you for selling on eBay,

---

There are many good coins in ANACS and ICG slabs which will now be
unmarketable and unsearchable on eBay with these new rules. I spent
several thousand dollars with ANACS recently on varieties and ancients
which are two categories that people will (righly so) never buy unless
attributed and certified by a reputable grading service. Now eBay will
consider these raw. Will be on the phone with my attorney in the
morning.

----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991

[Bremick]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:6043eb49-24c1-4301...@36g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

-----------------


Obviously, you should have given eBay a heads up to hold off on any changes
to requirements until you had received the coins you sent to ANACS and ICG
to be graded and slabbed with the express purpose to be sold in eBay
auctions.

Do you really believe that a bidder will look at your clear auction photos
of coins in ANACS or ICG slabs and consider them to be "raw"? Do you
really believe you would have obtained a higher bid had you been able to
include the terms ANACS or ICG and an MS grade in the description? Don't
your photos make that clear? Are your auctions designed tp appeal only to
those who will buy coins that eBay approves of? If you're still worried
about all this, I have to wonder what kind of customers you attract anyway?

[Lance]

"Frank Galikanokus" <FrankGal...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4F8EC9A6...@nospam.net...

> gogu wrote:
>>
>
> I don't see where the new policy say you cannot use the name of the
> grading company in the
> title and/or description.
>
> Am I missing something?
>

If the coin is in a slab other than PCGS and NGC then it will be considered
raw.

Currently, the rules for raw coins prohibit referencing any TPG in the title
and auction listing. Unless the rules are changed, sellers of ANACS coins
will not be allowed to mention ANACS or the numerical grade in the title or
the listing. Of course pictures will tell the story. But searches will not
be possible.

Lance

[Bremick]

"Lance" <Lanc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jmnqdn$4mv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Those coins are "raw" in eBay's eyes only. Any collector who respects
the "other" grading services can decide if it's a coin they want to bid on,
regardless of what eBay prefers. The name of the TPG along with the
assigned grade should be apparent in auction photos (wink. wink) without
having to mention the initials in the text or description. Otherwise, how
many actually search specifically on terms ANACS, PCI, ICG, etc. as opposed
to a specific coin date, denomination, series, etc. I've seen plenty of
eBay auctions of PCGS and NGC coins where the coin looks like crap.
Regardless of how many time I see the TPG initials and MS grades in titles
and text, I wouldn't be apt to bid just because eBay has approved of the
grading service.

There are some people out there who apparently like to have their coins
slabbed cheaply by one of the "unapproved" services and then hype them to
the less-informed on eBay as equal to the Big Two, just because, hey, the
coins are in a slab.

[NM3COINS]

This decision clearly has PNG written all over it. No discussion with the
eBay community but eBay has been promoting PNG dealers right and left.
eBay is turning in to a bureacratic, government like agency and PNG is doing
some serious lobbying.

PNG dealers don't like the small businesses selling on eBay cutting into
their profit margins. So they are working with eBay to implement their
rules. How much longer before eBay implements PNG minumum asset
requirements?

I am not saying that PNG is a bad group, but I personally don't believe they
represent the totality that is the eBay numismatic community. I've never
appreciated PNG claiming ANACS was "second tier" and their alliances with
eBay seem to bear the same fruit. As far as first or second tier, let the
market decide.

Specifically regarding eBay's latest edict, I've never had a bad experience
when purchasing or selling an ANACS graded product. For many of us who
sell on smaller margins, authenticating a coin with ANACS has always been
the way to go.

[Bremick]

"Anonymous" <an...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:jmo4jo$mr7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in news:jmmbn2$sdk$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> [ snipped] >>
>
> Please don't use vulgar language here.


That'll sure stop him. And by the way, it was curious that you redisplayed
the passages that so offended you.

[Ron]

Ebay can and should do anything they want, as long as it is legal. They own
the business. There is no guarantee for inclusion. It's like telling Taco
Bell they have to sell Coke when they want to only sell Pepsi.

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message

news:6043eb49-24c1-4301...@36g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

>My lawyer has already sent eBay a notice that since I have bought
ANACS coins off eBay and recently spent over $2000 with ANACS in
grading fees with the express purpose of selling such graded coins on
eBay based on their many statements that eBay was an approved grading
service, being forced to either sell these coins as "raw" or pay some
$3,500 additional to get them slabbed by NGC or PCGS plus the loss of
market value and liquidity of my ANACS and ICG stock would result in a
well over $10,000 loss for me.

I'm sure eBay will give your attorney's (alleged) letter all the weight it
deserve (none).
At any rate, you have until the end of May to unload your latest
purchases/slabs.
You're always such a little bitch, Fwankie, constantly whining about eBay and
constantly getting your auctions yanked for willfully violating their
regulations.
Fwankie likes to skirt the rules on eBay, listing his unapproved TPG coins as
"slabbed" and the like.
Hey Fwankie, if you don't like eBay, use Teletrade or Heritage.
But don't worry Fwankie, I'm sure they will still allow you to sell those public
domain DVDs - as long as you don't claim they're "certified" or "slabbed"!
Poor deluded Fwankie - he doesn't realize that these days most folks can
download public domain movies for free!

[Ron]

Hey Trader, why are you ragging on this Provasek fellow who made the OP?
Seems like it's
valuable information and I would be pissed and calling my lawyer also if
ebay gave a one month
notice that stuck me with a bunch of unsellable coins. Just asking.


"The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:jmp0sr$nuv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Jud]

On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54:38 PM UTC-4, Frank Provasek wrote:

> Nor will PCGS slab ancients, Civil War Tokens, So-called dollars,
> or medals (except US Mint medals.)

Regarding PCGS and Civil War Tokens...stay tuned!

[Frank Galikanokus]

From what I've read it's only the numerical grade that is not allowed.

JAM

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message

news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

> As long as they are
properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
sold. They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
restraint of trade,

Fwankie, as usual you blow nothing but ignorant hot air, lies and gross
misrepresentations of the truth.
As a private enterprise, eBay is free to set rules as to what items can be sold
and how they may be sold ON THEIR SITE.
Then you whine that ANACS slabbed coins are "banned", which is an out and out
lie.
ANACS, ICG, PCI, SEGS and any other TPG coins may be sold - BY STAYING WITHIN
EBAY'S GUIDELINES, you blithering idiot.
What the fuck is so hard about that for you to understand?
Did your momma drop you on your head repeatedly? Sure seems like it!
My prediction: Fwankie will continue to list his ANACS coins as certified in
violation of eBay's regulations.
Said auctions will be pulled and Fwankie will be here whining about how his
enemies and eBay are trying to sabotage his business, costing him tens of
thousands of dollars, if not millions!
He'll then make impotent threats about legal action and bogus claims about
contacting his (alleged) attorney.
Finally, after being kicked in the balls repeatedly by eBay, he'll start obeying
the rules (barely) and find something else to whine about.

[oly]

On Apr 19, 6:50 pm, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> "Frank Provasek"  wrote in message
>
> news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...> As long as they are
>
> properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
> claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
> which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
> sold.  They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
> such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
> restraint of trade,
>
> Fwankie, as usual you blow nothing but ignorant hot air, lies and gross
> misrepresentations of the truth.
> As a private enterprise, eBay is free to set rules as to what items can be sold
> and how they may be sold ON THEIR SITE.
> Then you whine that ANACS slabbed coins are "banned", which is an out and out
> lie.
> ANACS, ICG, PCI, SEGS and any other TPG coins may be sold - BY STAYING WITHIN
> EBAY'S GUIDELINES, you blithering idiot.

> What the @#!*% is so hard about that for you to understand?

> Did your momma drop you on your head repeatedly? Sure seems like it!
> My prediction: Fwankie will continue to list his ANACS coins as certified in
> violation of eBay's regulations.
> Said auctions will be pulled and Fwankie will be here whining about how his
> enemies and eBay are trying to sabotage his business, costing him tens of
> thousands of dollars, if not millions!
> He'll then make impotent threats about legal action and bogus claims about
> contacting his (alleged) attorney.
> Finally, after being kicked in the balls repeatedly by eBay, he'll start obeying
> the rules (barely) and find something else to whine about.

I'd suspect that Frank will obey the new ebay rules scrupulously - any
sale he can make seems to be needed very very badly. If he can no
longer puff-up his third tier slabs as something much better than what
they actually are, that's the breaks, he's just one of many, he'll
just have to go along. The highly desirable "Prepaid legal" only goes
so far.

oly

[Jason Burke]

Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!

[Nick Knight]

In <jmqfhf$obl$1...@dont-email.me>, on 04/19/2012

at 06:52 PM, Jason Burke <Burke...@comcast.net> said:

>Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!

Yeah. Nice.

Funny thing is, I had him pegged after about the first 5 words ... plonk.

Why do morons change their posting names yet post the same stupidty? Do
they think the rest of the world is as stupid as they are? Whatever.

Nick

[oly]

On Apr 19, 8:52 pm, Jason Burke <Burke_Ja...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/19/2012 4:50 PM, The Trader wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Frank Provasek"  wrote in message
> >news:b865f8bd-d633-4a38...@r9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> >> As long as they are
> > properly described for what they are, and no inappropriate valuation
> > claims are made, a venue like eBay has no business telling sellers
> > which particular brand names of a legal product may or may not be
> > sold.  They can ban ALL raw coins, or ALL items of a particular type,
> > such as guns, but banning the products of certain companies is illegal
> > restraint of trade,
>
> > Fwankie, as usual you blow nothing but ignorant hot air, lies and gross
> > misrepresentations of the truth.
> > As a private enterprise, eBay is free to set rules as to what items can be sold
> > and how they may be sold ON THEIR SITE.
> > Then you whine that ANACS slabbed coins are "banned", which is an out and out
> > lie.
> > ANACS, ICG, PCI, SEGS and any other TPG coins may be sold - BY STAYING WITHIN
> > EBAY'S GUIDELINES, you blithering idiot.

> > What the @#!*% is so hard about that for you to understand?

> > Did your momma drop you on your head repeatedly? Sure seems like it!
> > My prediction: Fwankie will continue to list his ANACS coins as certified in
> > violation of eBay's regulations.
> > Said auctions will be pulled and Fwankie will be here whining about how his
> > enemies and eBay are trying to sabotage his business, costing him tens of
> > thousands of dollars, if not millions!
> > He'll then make impotent threats about legal action and bogus claims about
> > contacting his (alleged) attorney.
> > Finally, after being kicked in the balls repeatedly by eBay, he'll start obeying
> > the rules (barely) and find something else to whine about.
>

> Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nice to see a giant greased ass-fuck like Jason "Burke" back. Well,
not really. Next we'll get reedie-hole-fuck too. oly

[gogu]

Ο "Nick Knight" <bhnc...@mr2ice.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:4f90d00a$1$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...

> In <jmqfhf$obl$1...@dont-email.me>, on 04/19/2012
> at 06:52 PM, Jason Burke <Burke...@comcast.net> said:
>
>>Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!


> Yeah. Nice.
> Funny thing is, I had him pegged after about the first 5 words ... plonk.
> Why do morons change their posting names yet post the same stupidty?

You already gave the answer: because they are...morons;-)

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

[Bob]

Any business can still choose to reserve the right to refuse service to
anyone. This is America.

eBay can make policy as they see fit. If people, sellers mostly, don't like
the policy they can go elsewhere to sell their wears. Those who are up in
arms about this change seem to be under the impression that it's a right to
use eBay, when in fact the use is controlled and subject to eBay's Terms of
Service, and as such users must agree to those terms and abide by them.

People mention all the time the Sherman Anti Trust Act of 1890 and what eBay
is doing is illegal under that act.

That's a very loose interpretation of the act. I don't see eBay as a
monopoly on anything.

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t204652-15/#ixzz1sbynRkfC

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message

news:9e82a3fb-013d-4e11...@p6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

[oly]

> or medals (except US Mint medals.)- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Curious spelling there, Bob, perhaps a Freudian slip. Most sellers
sell their "wares" on ebay, but I do suppose that coin dealers sell
their "wears". oly

[Jason Burke]

And you (and Bobbie) know all about that, I assume?

[Jason Burke]

On 4/20/2012 6:45 AM, gogu wrote:
> Ο "Nick Knight"<bhnc...@mr2ice.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
> news:4f90d00a$1$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In<jmqfhf$obl$1...@dont-email.me>, on 04/19/2012
>> at 06:52 PM, Jason Burke<Burke...@comcast.net> said:
>>
>>> Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!
>
>
>> Yeah. Nice.
>> Funny thing is, I had him pegged after about the first 5 words ... plonk.
>> Why do morons change their posting names yet post the same stupidty?
>
> You already gave the answer: because they are...morons;-)
>

Oooh, lucky you! Oly didn't say something about your anus!

[oly]

On Apr 20, 9:07 pm, Jason Burke <Burke_Ja...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/20/2012 6:45 AM, gogu wrote:
>

> > Ï "Nick Knight"<bhnc_1...@mr2ice.com>  Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
> >news:4f90d00a$1$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> In<jmqfhf$ob...@dont-email.me>, on 04/19/2012
> >>    at 06:52 PM, Jason Burke<Burke_Ja...@comcast.net>  said:

>
> >>> Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!
>
> >> Yeah.  Nice.
> >> Funny thing is, I had him pegged after about the first 5 words ... plonk.
> >> Why do morons change their posting names yet post the same stupidty?
>
> > You already gave the answer: because they are...morons;-)
>
> Oooh, lucky you! Oly didn't say something about your anus!

I know that I keep mixing up K-nick K-night with a rather disreputable
coin dealer on ebay. Or maybee they are the same person. I'd rather
have a pleasant exchange of thoughts with the thoughtful Mr. F.
anyday. If those thoughts are negative, well, nothing wrong with
that. Of course, your bunghole is an just afterthought, Jayysson.

oly

[Jason Burke]

On 4/20/2012 7:21 PM, oly wrote:
> On Apr 20, 9:07 pm, Jason Burke<Burke_Ja...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 4/20/2012 6:45 AM, gogu wrote:
>>

>>> Ο "Nick Knight"<bhnc_1...@mr2ice.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα

>>> news:4f90d00a$1$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> In<jmqfhf$ob...@dont-email.me>, on 04/19/2012
>>>> at 06:52 PM, Jason Burke<Burke_Ja...@comcast.net> said:
>>
>>>>> Nice to see Bobbie Finkowski back!
>>
>>>> Yeah. Nice.
>>>> Funny thing is, I had him pegged after about the first 5 words ... plonk.
>>>> Why do morons change their posting names yet post the same stupidty?
>>
>>> You already gave the answer: because they are...morons;-)
>>
>> Oooh, lucky you! Oly didn't say something about your anus!
>
> I know that I keep mixing up K-nick K-night with a rather disreputable
> coin dealer on ebay. Or maybee they are the same person. I'd rather
> have a pleasant exchange of thoughts with the thoughtful Mr. F.
> anyday. If those thoughts are negative, well, nothing wrong with
> that. Of course, your bunghole is an just afterthought, Jayysson.
>
> oly

Somehow, I'm not surprised than an asswipe like you gets along with Finnan.

[Justin]

I don't like this new policy because it will make ANACS and ICG look like
3rd tier grading services(which they are not!) and you won't be able to even
get close to a fair price for your coins.

No one will want to hunt out ANACS or ICG coins on their own and not being
able to list the grade in the title will only mean doom for the seller.

"The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message

news:jmq8be$vij$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[NM3COINS]

Below is the release posted on ANACS web site:



Our Response to eBay's April 17 Announcement: To our valued customers:

Many of you have contacted us about the email sent out by eBay regarding
changes in their coin listing policies that specifically impact sellers of
ANACS graded coins. We want to assure that you that we are absolutely
confident that this issue will be addressed by the May 30 deadline that eBay
has established. We would also like to take this opportunity to address some
of the specific questions that have been raised, and to share with you what
we are working on, which we believe will ultimately be of benefit to you.

·In its email to sellers of coins, eBay mentions “certain objective
standards” that are required of coin grading companies. We were not made
aware of these standards until April 17th – the very same day that eBay
chose to notify its sellers of the change. Now that we have been able to
review these standards, it is our contention that we exceed every standard
that has been set, with the exception of what we consider to be a single
technicality.

·Of the six standards that we have seen, we feel it is important to stress
that we exceed any standards set with regard to the expertise of our graders
or the quality of our service.

·Of the technicality mentioned earlier: eBay is requiring grading companies
to “enable online verification of unique serial numbers.” There are two
things we would like to make clear: 1) ANACS does offer verification of
unique serial numbers, but has not made that service available online as of
yet, and 2) ANACS is, in fact, in the final stages of making serial number
verification available on our web platform.

ANACS appreciates that eBay is taking steps to protect the coin community
from the actions of unscrupulous sellers and questionable grading practices.
It has been our company’s mission to protect the integrity of our hobby for
forty years! As stated earlier, we have no doubt that this issue will be
addressed in such a way that you will not be affected by this policy change,
and we are hopeful that we can work with eBay to do even more to protect
both buyers and sellers of coins.
Please feel free to email or call me with any questions you may have.

Sincerely –

Paul DeFelice
Vice President of Customer Relations and Marketing

[Dave Farmer]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 00:08:27 -0500, "Justin" <justin...@aol.com>
wrote:

>I don't like this new policy because it will make ANACS and ICG look like
>3rd tier grading services(which they are not!) and you won't be able to even
>get close to a fair price for your coins.
>
>No one will want to hunt out ANACS or ICG coins on their own and not being
>able to list the grade in the title will only mean doom for the seller.

This might be a real good opportunity for the buyer!

[Eat My DSR]

"Justin" <justin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jmtfd8$9vd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>I don't like this new policy because it will make ANACS and ICG look like
>3rd tier grading services(which they are not!) and you won't be able to
>even get close to a fair price for your coins.
>
> No one will want to hunt out ANACS or ICG coins on their own and not being
> able to list the grade in the title will only mean doom for the seller.
>
>

I hate ebay

I sold on eBay for 3 years.

They really went down hill when that arrogant SOB John Donahoe took over the
company. He is a complete idiot and a sham.

Once I had a negative left where the buyer called me a vulgar word. I had to
speak to 5 CS reps before they removed it. The 1st 4 would not even say the
word, and pretended like it wasn't even on there.

They also said it would take a court order to remove feedback.

Don't ever mention any legal action. I once told them that I was going to
take them to court (very long story), and they transferred me to a
supervisor, they said if I mention legal action, that they are no longer
obligated to speak to me, and hung up.

I remember:

1. Paypal "FREE AND ALWAYS WILL BE"... Well that did not last very long.

2. Having the option to leave buyers negs. They took that away because they
love kissing the buyer's behind.

3. The night when over (IDR the exact number, but it was in the thousands)
listings mysteriously appeared the same day eBay sellers had a HUGE boycot
(this was back in '08). eBay said it was a "bug"...ya ok. They did this on
purpose to pad the listing count to not worry stockholders.

4. They allowed .coms and stores like Toys R US and Buy.com to sell on there
with NO FEES. We (the ebay community) watched them removed hundreds of negs
because they sold a bunch of items that were out of stock.

5. They removed the option for money orders and cashier checks....saying it
was "unsafe". The actual reason was to force people to use paypal.

6. They allowed a alternative payment processor "propay" on eBay. This
payment processor stole hundreds of thousands of dollars, held them for over
3 months claiming "they were switching banks".

Come to find out...the head honcho of the company, Gregory Quinn, was having
a "sexual reasignment surgery". HE/she is now known as "Gregette". They
still alow this scum company on here.

7. The illegal holding of funds by paypal. They froze over $400 of MY MONEY
for 180 days...claiming "random security check". They did this to a lot of
people. They used that held money to gather interest. I read articles of
over 20,000 being held.

8. eBay scolded many sellers for having too high of shipping...then turned
around and started charging sellers 9% for shipping.

9. Shoving "free shipping" down sellers throats. There is NO SUCH THING as
free shipping. The cost is baked in somewhere. Who ever believes shipping is
free needs a slap in the face with a dead fish.

10. Raising the bar to make it harder for power sellers.

Well I could go on for hours. But eBay is not a good place. They buy out
other venues to monopolize. Don't ever forget they own 25% of Craigslist.

[Matt]

CAC has excluded ANACS and ICG since their beginning in 2007. I have never
heard anyone make a peep over this...

[Frank Provasek]

On Apr 20, 2:48 pm, "Bob" <b...@sailonly.com> wrote:

> eBay can make policy as they see fit. If people, sellers mostly, don't like
> the policy they can go elsewhere to sell their wears. Those who are up in
> arms about this change seem to be under the impression that it's a right to
> use eBay, when in fact the use is controlled and subject to eBay's Terms of
> Service, and as such users must agree to those terms and abide by them.
>
> People mention all the time the Sherman Anti Trust Act of 1890 and what eBay
> is doing is illegal under that act.
>
> That's a very loose interpretation of the act. I don't see eBay as a
> monopoly on anything.

Ebay is most definitely a monopoly. The primary indicator is not
market share, but abillity and influence to control the market and
raise prices virtually without worrying that their customers (the
sellers) will (or can) flee elsewhere. As a 13 year eBay seller, when
the 2.5% Final value fee was insigificant and we accepted only checks
or money orders, the price increases with forced credit cards and 9%
final value fee and twisting our arms to offer free postage and
unlimited refunds, today's sellers face total charges of 12% to 15%
That a 500% increase in a decade! Yet, there is no viable alternative
for those wishing to sell their own items in this format. So that's
pretty much a classic monopoly.
eBay is not an auction. The eBay user agreement states that they are a
venue to conduct “auction-style formats.” Their user statement goes on
to state: “you acknowledge that we are not a traditional auctioneer.
Instead, our sites are venues to allow anyone to offer, sell, and buy
just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of
pricing formats and locations, such as stores, fixed price formats and
auction-style formats.”
At a real auction, online or live, there is a binding contract between
buyer and seller. eBay expressly states that bids DO NOT create a
formal contract: "a bid or offer initiates a non-binding transaction
representing a buyer’s serious expression of interest in buying the
seller’s item and does not create a formal contract between the buyer
and the seller.”
eBay thus gets around state and local auctioneer laws that Heritage
and Teletrade must follow. Additionally, unlike real auctions where
the auction house possesses, describes, and mails or delivers the
items, on Ebay the owners andle this themselves, and eBay has no
assurance that the item even exists except as a stolen or juiced
photo.
Ebay has at least 90% of the market share of this type of "auction
style" listing business, having run Yahoo auctions out of business,
and bought out competitors (Kijiji,StubHub, Craigslist, up4sale.com,
Baazee.com, shopping.com, half.com, Paypal, and many more) or sued
them for "trade dress" or "look and feel" infringment (boxlot.com,
bidbay.com)

[The Trader]

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message

news:c4b1d424-a6bb-4b65...@v1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

>Ebay is most definitely a monopoly. blah blah blah...

Fwankie isn't a lawyer but he likes to play one on Usenet.

[oly]

Frank is a textbook example of somebody who thinks he knows everything
about everything, and to the nth degree as well; but seemingly he
can't butter his own bread.

Frank also likes to have the last word on any thread he participates
in, especially topics he started. So, this can go on for a while.

oly

[Frantisek Baltiska]

"Jim Clizbe" <jcl...@gormanlc.com> wrote in
news:jmp4d6$1pf$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

> eBay has said many times that they are not in business with business
> partners, they are facilitators so that others may do business. Even
> if eBay changed their stance on that, eBay's business partner would be
> a seller selling a graded coin, not the company doing the grading. If
> there are any quality issues with a slab, the 4 main TPGs currently
> allowed all have buyback guarantees and ultimately eBay has sellers by
> the balls anyway that they can force a seller to take any return and
> take the money from his Paypal account.
>
> "Ron" <Ron...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:jmp0qc$nqj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Ebay can and should do anything they want, as long as it is legal.
>> They own the business. There is no guarantee for inclusion. It's like
>> telling Taco Bell they have to sell Coke when they want to only sell
>> Pepsi.
>
>

Ebay need to be stopped with its monopoly power. I am in Germany and
starting this summer buyers will begin paying ebay rather than the
sellers Paypal accounts. Ebay will monthly release the money to the
sellers after they are sure the buyer has received the item and they are
satisfied.

[Scott B]

This change is a huge blow to any coin seller/investor, it devalued many
coins trading in the marketplace, and effectively just killed all fair
competition/monopolized the category!

Since ANACS and ICG coins will no longer be allowed to be sold as
"certified" on the site. Any collector who has invested ANACS or ICG coins
will now find their portfolio to be worth considerably less, and possibly
even be unmarketable.

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t204652/#ixzz1sn4v6ZeR

"Justin" <justin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jmtfd8$9vd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[snuffleuppagus]

"Chris Keogh" wrote in message news:jn1atg$3mr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>I think Mr Provasek does a good analysis from a legal standpoing, lawyer or
>not.

Fwankie is generally considered the village idiot of this group.


>This decision is wrong on so many levels.

>1. ANACS is the first grading service -- founded back in 1972. The
principal grader - JP Martin - developed the modern grading standards that
all TPGs use, and taught grading and counterfeit detection to many of the
graders employed by PCGS and NGC!

Irrelevant.

>2. ANACS graded varieties long before any other TPG did back in the 1990s-
Basically for variety collectors there was simply no other game in town.

Irrelevant and immaterial.

>3. ANACS gradeds decent coins and they are graded appropriately.

Opinion is not fact. Irrelevant.

>4. Ebay appears to believe it can impose a standard with an attitude that
implies "We know what is best for you" that really is self serving and
CLEARLY DOES NOT BENEFIT the collector community. WHY ARE COLLECTORS LEFT
WITH SUCH AN ILL CONCEIVED AND SHORT SIDED POLICY THAT FAILS TO CONSIDER THE
EVOLUTION OF THIRD PARTY GRADING??? I am disgusted with Ebay

eBay is a private enterprise that can set rules for the use of their services.

>Let collectors decide if they want ICG or ANACS coins-

Sellers can still sell ICG, ANACS and other TPG graded coins - nothing has
changed.
If you don't like eBay's regulations, you can always sell your coins on
Teletrade, Heritage and numerous other venues.
Nobody is forced to use eBay.
Now personally, I think that eBay is unwise in this decision but I don't have to
sell there if I don't want to and neither does Fwankie or YOU!

[Nick Knight]

In <jn1ehs$f6r$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, on 04/22/2012

at 12:18 PM, "Scott B" <Sco...@verizon.net> said:

>Since ANACS and ICG coins will no longer be allowed to be sold as
>"certified" on the site. Any collector who has invested ANACS or ICG
>coins will now find their portfolio to be worth considerably less, and
>possibly even be unmarketable.

I think there is a point here, but eBay is not the only way to buy and
sell coins ... it just happens to have taken off and become "important" in
the last 10-15 years or so. Things change quickly, eh? And they can
change again.

I haven't purchased many coins via eBay in the last few years. I have
increased my attendance at coin shows and do most of my buying there.
And, I do like (prefer) the old ANACS holders over any others. PCGS comes
in second in my book, and I just don't like NGC slabs and never have been
impressed with their grading consistency (specifically on capped bust
halves).

That said, I prefer unslabbed coins, unless looking at MS-level bust
coins. I've never understood why someone would slab a common VF grade
bust half. Yet I have some in my possession, purchased when there was no
surcharge in price for the "privelege".

I will continue to be happy buying ANACS slabs when the coin inside is
right for me. And, if eBay isn't the right place to buy these, then I'll
be buying even less from their site. As an "amateur seller", it appears
to be getting more intense to list odd lots on eBay, too. I'll do my
"spring cleaning" soon, and we'll see.

Other ways to buy and sell do (still) exist. Perhaps its time to
re-explore these?

Nick

[Nick Knight]

In <jn1ipq$qv8$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, on 04/22/2012

at 02:31 PM, "snuffleuppagus" <a...@xyz.xxx> said:

>>I think Mr Provasek does a good analysis from a legal standpoing, lawyer or
>>not.

>Fwankie is generally considered the village idiot of this group.

.. by the 2 or 3 crude morons who typically post this kind of crap, on
occassion rotating their email addresses ...

I see primarily 2 specific village idiots here, and I'll suggest that my
eye sight is "generally considered" more correct. They're very easy to
see, and I'm probably beating a dead horse pointing them out. Again. But
hey, a dead horse has more of interest to say than these 2.

I'll have to see if there's any kind of size limit to my killfile. Ok,
ok, I know there's not.

Nick

[Tommy Anderson]

OK, WHO set down those requirements? John Albanese did. In every statement
made by the company and their reps he is the expert they consulted. If you
dont see the clear collusion here, you are either shoving your head in the
sand or just dont want to.

Albanese owns CAC. The company who grades the grades of PCGS and NGC ONLY.
He founded those two companies (which makes the value of those stupid green
beans all based on opinions of those who want to perpetuate PCGS and NGC as
"the best"). So who stands to gain here the most? Albanese. And if you think
for half a second Ebay doesnt see the profit in it for them, watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ifz7_12XEI


Take note of when he says the dealers will be able to sell their coins at
higher price points.

Yes, there is no doubt some improvement was needed in some policies.
However, they already had a restriction about puting grades in your listing
title. . It was done in this manner purely due to money and no other reason.
All the rest is the fire and brimstone to distract from the man behind the
curtain.

And as has been pointed, online registry check is something ANACS has been
setting up anyway. That requirement is not a bad thing, but again, it was at
the behest and guidance of Albanese. I guarantee Ebay did not just approach
him out of the blue. He is like John Horner (if you know fossils at all, you
know what I am talking about). If a camera is around and an opinion wanted,
magically he is there... at someone else's request for an expert of course.

"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:41134347-a4fd-46af...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com...

On Apr 18, 5:10 pm, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>

[Bremick]

"Eat My DSR" <an...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:jmun80$887$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Y' know? If I were you, I'd avoid eBay.

[oly]

On Apr 22, 6:28 pm, "Tommy Anderson" <emaran...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> OK, WHO set down those requirements? John Albanese did. In every statement
> made by the company and their reps he is the expert they consulted. If you
> dont see the clear collusion here, you are either shoving your head in the
> sand or just dont want to.
>
> Albanese owns CAC. The company who grades the grades of PCGS and NGC ONLY.
> He founded those two companies (which makes the value of those stupid green
> beans all based on opinions of those who want to perpetuate PCGS and NGC as
> "the best"). So who stands to gain here the most? Albanese. And if you think
> for half a second Ebay doesnt see the profit in it for them, watch this...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ifz7_12XEI
>
> Take note of when he says the dealers will be able to sell their coins at
> higher price points.
>
> Yes, there is no doubt some improvement was needed in some policies.
> However, they already had a restriction about puting grades in your listing
> title. . It was done in this manner purely due to money and no other reason.
> All the rest is the fire and brimstone to distract from the man behind the
> curtain.
>
> And as has been pointed, online registry check is something ANACS has been
> setting up anyway. That requirement is not a bad thing, but again, it was at
> the behest and guidance of Albanese. I guarantee Ebay did not just approach
> him out of the blue. He is like John Horner (if you know fossils at all, you
> know what I am talking about). If a camera is around and an opinion wanted,
> magically he is there... at someone else's request for an expert of course.
>

> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message

>
> news:41134347-a4fd-46af...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 18, 5:10 pm, "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > "Frank Provasek" wrote in message
>
> >news:8d4d1bee-1a7f-41ec...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> > ...it's all about "selling coins at higher price points"
>
> >http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI
> > -------------------------------
> > Waa waa waa I'm widdle Fwankie Pwovasicko and eBay is being mean to me
> > again!
> > waa waa waa
>
> Fwankie, qween of the bastage third-rate slab.  The world's very
> finest U.S. coins, ALL in third-rate slabs, and no money (and no guts)
> whatseover to get these GEMS "crossed over" into something better.
>
> oly

Oh please, the whole market for slabbed U.S. coins is PCGS and after
that, a distant NCG. Ebay is doing many newbie and casual collectors
a favor here. Get over it.

oly

[Bremick]

"Scott B" <Sco...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jn1ehs$f6r$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> This change is a huge blow to any coin seller/investor, it devalued many
> coins trading in the marketplace, and effectively just killed all fair
> competition/monopolized the category!
>
> Since ANACS and ICG coins will no longer be allowed to be sold as
> "certified" on the site. Any collector who has invested ANACS or ICG coins
> will now find their portfolio to be worth considerably less, and possibly
> even be unmarketable.
>

Anyone who invested in ANACS or ICG slabbed coins for the purpose of selling
them only on eBay isn't a very savvy investor. But if a collector has an
MS65 St. Gaudens in an ANACS or ICG slab that he'd like to sell on eBay, and
if he has the means to take sharp photos, he should have no problem using
eBay. I assume the seller is skilled enough to have agreed with the MS65
grade clearly visible on the slab label when he either bought the coin or
got it back from the service. The auction title could be something like
"Beautiful Mint State 1927 St. Gaudens $20 Gold. Sharp Strike!". The
carefully worded description need not mention "MS65" or the name of the TPG.
The high quality photos will make most everything clear without repeating
what is clearly stated on the label. If potential bidders agree with the
grade, as the seller did, the ANACS/ICG slab might be irrelevant. Any
collector will be aware that it obviously is a certified coin whether he is
a fan of ANACS/ICG or not. The seller may not get the same result as an
identical coin in a PCGS/NGC slab, but then the seller likely expected that
anyway when he decided to "invest" in ANACS/ICG coins. Otherwise, I'll bet
you'd get a better price with a nice MS65 ANACS $20 than with a PCGS $20
graded at MS65 but with an unattractive appearance.

[Bremick]

"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:c4b1d424-a6bb-4b65...@v1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

----------------------

Frank, I suggest you avoid eBay and go back to how you were doing business
before. You were doing business before weren't you?

[Marty]

I don't think ebay deserves our business or that we should have to beg and
plead for them to let us back on. There is a new auction site BOOCOO.COM
that suppose to be Ebays competition in the near future. They are easy to
sign up with and don't all those personal questions and its just like ebay.
Don't let ebay take your happiness. Move on to something better and SPREAD
THE WORD. Tell everybody. Thats the only way it will take off. Go to other
forums with other suspended ebayers and tell them about BOOCOO.COM It may be
a little slow now but list things on there people will want and TELL PEOPLE
ABOUT IT!!! This is just the beginning people lets work together!

"Les Guthrie" <lesgu...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:jn22fe$5sp$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>
> "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
> news:jmq8be$vij$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>

>>> Fwankie, as usual you blow nothing but ignorant hot air, lies and gross
>> misrepresentations of the truth.
>> As a private enterprise, eBay is free to set rules as to what items can
>> be sold and how they may be sold ON THEIR SITE.
>

> You don't think that eBay sellers should be able to sell what THEY WANT TO
> SELL rather than
> what eBay wants them to sell? The sellers are paying for what is
> basically ad space. eBay is
> just a venue.

[Bremick]

"Chris Keogh" <chr...@coinsusa.com> wrote in message
news:jn1atg$3mr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>I think Mr Provasek does a good analysis from a legal standpoing, lawyer or
>not.
>

> This decision is wrong on so many levels.
>
> 1. ANACS is the first grading service -- founded back in 1972. The
> principal grader - JP Martin - developed the modern grading standards that
> all TPGs use, and taught grading and counterfeit detection to many of the
> graders employed by PCGS and NGC!
>

> 2. ANACS graded varieties long before any other TPG did back in the 1990s-
> Basically for variety collectors there was simply no other game in town.
>

> 3. ANACS gradeds decent coins and they are graded appropriately.
>

> 4. Ebay appears to believe it can impose a standard with an attitude that
> implies "We know what is best for you" that really is self serving and
> CLEARLY DOES NOT BENEFIT the collector community. WHY ARE COLLECTORS LEFT
> WITH SUCH AN ILL CONCEIVED AND SHORT SIDED POLICY THAT FAILS TO CONSIDER
> THE EVOLUTION OF THIRD PARTY GRADING??? I am disgusted with Ebay
>

> Let collectors decide if they want ICG or ANACS coins-

So are you saying that whenever eBay proclaims something, e.g. "We consider
ANACS coins as not certified and raw", that bidders nod their heads and
adopt the eBay mantra? Does anyone really believe that eBay policies alone
have influenced collector acceptance of certain TPG's? Has their short list
of "favorites" made PCGS coins more desireable to collectors than they were
before? Do collectors structure their collections around eBay
recommendations? I doubt it. If you like the looks of a coin in an ANACS
or ICG slab, would you pass it up because of what eBay thinks? You make
some good points, but sell your second and third tier-slabbed coins freely
on eBay and let the bidders decide their worth.

[Bremick]

"Tommy Anderson" <emar...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jn247n$9p8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Interesting and well stated. But, politics aside, I think I'm going to keep
selling and buying on Ebay regardless, because I've never found such a
convenient and profitable way to do this from my desk at home. I disagree
with certain eBay policies, but I consider some of them a challenge and have
had creative success working with and around them-- ANACS slabs included.
It's amazing how easily many bidders can find their way through the
"weasel-worded" titles and descriptions to get to the telltale photos.



.

[Bremick]

"Ron" <Ron...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:jmp2mu$ss1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Hey Trader, why are you ragging on this Provasek fellow who made the OP?
> Seems like it's
> valuable information and I would be pissed and calling my lawyer also if
> ebay gave a one month
> notice that stuck me with a bunch of unsellable coins. Just asking.

Are you assuming they're "unsellable" (on eBay) because Frank said so?

[snuffleuppagus]

"Les Guthrie" wrote in message news:jn21ur$4jp$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>Ebay will not let me sell or advertise the ICG graded error coins
or the artist signed state quarters also slabbed by ICG.

You appear to be as willfully stupid as Fwankie is.
You can sell your ICG coins on eBay - you just can't mention the grader or the
numeric grade.
But hey, don't let facts get in the was of a good rant!

[Bremick]

"Marty" <marty....@ok.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jn2ar5$n61$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>I don't think ebay deserves our business or that we should have to beg and
>plead for them to let us back on. There is a new auction site BOOCOO.COM
>that suppose to be Ebays competition in the near future. They are easy to
>sign up with and don't all those personal questions and its just like ebay.
>Don't let ebay take your happiness. Move on to something better and SPREAD
>THE WORD. Tell everybody. Thats the only way it will take off. Go to other
>forums with other suspended ebayers and tell them about BOOCOO.COM It may
>be a little slow now but list things on there people will want and TELL
>PEOPLE ABOUT IT!!! This is just the beginning people lets work together!

I think I get the DRIFT of what "Let's work together!" means here.

[oly]

On Apr 22, 8:53 pm, "snuffleuppagus" <a...@xyz.xxx> wrote:
> "Les Guthrie"  wrote in messagenews:jn21ur$4jp$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

"Les Guthrie" is simply one of Fwankie's sockpuppets. Think about
it. You have to be well over 60 to think "Les" is a common name,
esepcially for a younger male, and "Guthrie", well Fwankie is a sick
old hippie kinda like Arlo is a sick old hippie (but I admire Arlo,
BTW). Les went on at length in his post, 'tho not quite as much as
Fwankie, which may have been a bit of deception on Fwankie's part.
Also, "Les" chimed in on the deceased coin dealer thread elsewhere,
which Fwankie needed somebody else to chime in on, so that Fwankie
didn't look like a mindless turd (or the Village Idiot). Fwankie
probably wanted to add something to that thread, but it is better to
seem to reply to somebody than to simply post twice in a row when
nobody else has respeonded.

I say "sockpuppet". Sockpuppet. Getting pretty sad, Fwankie.

Did I say (again) that Frank is a severe masochist and is probably,
sadly, getting his nuts off on all this abuse???

oly

[oly]

On Apr 22, 8:21 pm, "Marty" <marty.gib...@ok.rr.com> wrote:
> I don't think ebay deserves our business or that we should have to beg and
> plead for them to let us back on. There is a new auction site BOOCOO.COM
> that suppose to be Ebays competition in the near future. They are easy to
> sign up with and don't all those personal questions and its just like ebay.
> Don't let ebay take your happiness. Move on to something better and SPREAD
> THE WORD. Tell everybody. Thats the only way it will take off. Go to other
> forums with other suspended ebayers and tell them about BOOCOO.COM It may be
> a little slow now but list things on there people will want and TELL PEOPLE
> ABOUT IT!!! This is just the beginning people lets work together!
>

> "Les Guthrie" <lesguth...@charter.net> wrote in message

>
> news:jn22fe$5sp$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
> >news:jmq8be$vij$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> >>> Fwankie, as usual you blow nothing but ignorant hot air, lies and gross
> >> misrepresentations of the truth.
> >> As a private enterprise, eBay is free to set rules as to what items can
> >> be sold and how they may be sold ON THEIR SITE.
>
> > You don't think that eBay sellers should be able to sell what THEY WANT TO
> > SELL rather than
> > what eBay wants them to sell?  The sellers are paying for what is
> > basically ad space.  eBay is

> > just a venue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There is a well-known fellow (older gentleman) associated with the
GPAA named "Boo Coop" and I hope he sues you or them or whatever.
Kinda like Stanley Bing should be suing Microsoft for their "Bing"
bullshittae.

oly

[Steve Spradlin]

I hate to say it, but many, including myself saw this coming back in
2007 when Ebay disallowed all the slabs that it considered "not up to
standard," placing reputable and semi-reputable companies like PCI,
SEGS, and older out of business firms like NCI, Hallmark, Blanchard on
level of basement slabbers.

In fact eventually, Ebay will probably kick one of the "top 2" out in
a couple of years, which ever one will give a greater kick back.

It's a shame, because both ICG and especially ANACS have taken off
over the past year and a half on Bluesheet, further demonstrating why
this is an awful move by Ebay. I find the ANACS gold or yellow holders
for Non-modern coins to be very actually graded. If anything Ebay
should have implemented a policy that would have allowed only grading
companies that trade on Bluesheet to list their numeric grade and
holder.

[Ken Barr]

In article <jmup1e$cca$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Russ <ru...@invalid.net>
wrote:

> "Lance" <Lanc...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:jmnqdn$4mv$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
> >
> > "Frank Galikanokus" <FrankGal...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > news:4F8EC9A6...@nospam.net...
> >> gogu wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't see where the new policy say you cannot use the name of the
> >> grading company in the
> >> title and/or description.
> >>
> >> Am I missing something?
> >>
> >
> > If the coin is in a slab other than PCGS and NGC then it will be
> > considered raw.
> >
> > Currently, the rules for raw coins prohibit referencing any TPG in the
> > title and auction listing. Unless the rules are changed, sellers of
> > ANACS coins will not be allowed to mention ANACS or the numerical
> > grade in the title or the listing. Of course pictures will tell the
> > story. But searches will not be possible.
> >
> > Lance
> >
> >
>
> This is still America, and despite President Mammy, a business can still
> choose to reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. A

You really think so? Try putting up a sign on your business that says
"No blacks, women, Catholics, gays or people in wheelchairs admitted"
and then let us know in which order the five lawyers with lawsuites in
hand show up ...

--
Ken Barr Numismatics        email:  k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541             website:  http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA  95152     Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247      NEXT SHOW: Ukiah CA (VFW Hall) April 28

[Ken Barr]

In article <jn22fe$5sp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

"Les Guthrie" <lesgu...@charter.net> wrote:

> "The Trader" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
> news:jmq8be$vij$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >
> >> Fwankie, as usual you blow nothing but ignorant hot air, lies and gross
> > misrepresentations of the truth.
> > As a private enterprise, eBay is free to set rules as to what items can be
> > sold and how they may be sold ON THEIR SITE.
>
> You don't think that eBay sellers should be able to sell what THEY WANT TO
> SELL rather than
> what eBay wants them to sell? The sellers are paying for what is basically
> ad space. eBay is
> just a venue.

<shrug> eBay has numerous prohibitions and listing restrictions in
various categories, including firearms, racist memorabilia, body parts,
pharmaceuticals, crime scene photographs, etc., etc., etc. I'm sure
that many eBay sellers think they should be able to sell that kind of
material without restriction, but eBay disagrees and won't let them,
even though they are "just a venue".

This same argument was raised several years ago when eBay originally put
restrictions on various certification companies. NNC, ACG, PCI, SEGS,
Treasure Galleries, Inc, and Centsles sued eBay, the ANA and the PNG
back in 2008. You can see how effective that lawsuite was by the
changes eBay was forced to make to their policies ... oh, wait, they
didn't have to make ANY changes to their policies, and in fact are now
making them even TOUGHER with these new ANACS/ICG restrictions.

eBay must be quaking in their boots awaiting the ANACS/ICG lawuites ...

[Gary]

Why is the OP being called "Fwankie" and "village idiot"??

Seems like well thought out ideas. 100% Feedback on Ebay and 46 years
experience? Don't understand all the bashing here.

Ebay's actions make no market sense because the TPGs are not the ones
listing the coins for sale on eBay. Private individuals are the sellers and
any disputes about the sale is between seller and buyer. And Ebay already
has the right to unilaterally determine to make a refund to the buyer if the
buyer makes just about any excuse that he is unhappy.

Ebay really needs to put some coin experts on staff, it's obvious no one
there currently has a clue about coins.

"Jim Clizbe" <jcl...@gormanlc.com> wrote in message
news:jmp4d6$1pf$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> eBay has said many times that they are not in business with business
> partners, they are facilitators so that others may do business. Even if
> eBay changed their stance on that, eBay's business partner would be a
> seller selling a graded coin, not the company doing the grading. If there
> are any quality issues with a slab, the 4 main TPGs currently allowed all
> have buyback guarantees and ultimately eBay has sellers by the balls
> anyway that they can force a seller to take any return and take the money
> from his Paypal account.
>

> "Ron" <Ron...@aol.com> wrote in message

[Bremick]

"Gary" <garyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jn5i0c$st9$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Why is the OP being called "Fwankie" and "village idiot"??
>
> Seems like well thought out ideas. 100% Feedback on Ebay and 46 years
> experience? Don't understand all the bashing here.
>
> Ebay's actions make no market sense because the TPGs are not the ones
> listing the coins for sale on eBay. Private individuals are the sellers
> and any disputes about the sale is between seller and buyer. And Ebay
> already has the right to unilaterally determine to make a refund to the
> buyer if the buyer makes just about any excuse that he is unhappy.
>
> Ebay really needs to put some coin experts on staff, it's obvious no one
> there currently has a clue about coins.

And apparently lots of eBay seller don't have a clue about eBay's coin
listing requirements.

[Jim Clizbe]

For those PCGS and NGC Cool-aid drinkers:

"One Class I dollar, a PCGS Proof-68 once owned by the Sultan of Muscat (now
Oman) and the finest known 1804 specimen (pictured below), sold in 1999 to
coin dealer David Akers, who reportedly bought it for a private collector.
The price was $4.14 million, the second most ever paid for any individual
coin through a public auction (the most was for a 1933 Saint-Gaudens twenty
dollar gold piece, which sold for $7.59 million in 2002). The same coin had
earlier been graded Proof-65 by Q. David Bowers.



Another Class I 1804 dollar, a PCGS Proof-67 once owned by the King of Siam
(now Thailand), sold as part of the King of Siam 11-coin set for $1.82
million in 1993, for more than $4 million in 2001, and most recently for
$8.5 million in 2005 to Rare Coin Wholesalers. The same coin had previously
been graded Proof-65 by both PCGS and Q. David Bowers.



The Adams-Carter coin is currently graded Proof-58 by PCGS, but in the past
it was graded Proof-50 by NGC and before that Proof-45 by PCGS. To PCGS's
own graders, the coin improved an astonishing 13 points in quality over
time. PCGS contended that it graded the coin as it most recently did because
previous graders didn't account for its weak strike. But Q. David Bowers,
Walter Breen, and Eric P. Newman and Kenneth E. Bressett had all graded it
extremely fine as well. A considerably more likely explanation is that this
coin is just another example of how the grading "standards" of the grading
services are anything but consistent over time and how they treat rare coins
or coins with provenance more leniently than other coins.



NGC recently engaged in two similar acts of blatant overgrading. It graded
the Berg-Garrett specimen, a Class III 1804 dollar not pictured here,
Proof-55. This is a whopping 15 points higher than everyone else had graded
it. Q. David Bowers graded it EF-40 in his 1993 book Silver Dollars and
Trade Dollars of the United States: A Complete Encyclopedia. Walter Breen
graded it EF in his 1988 book Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial
Coins. Eric P. Newman and Kenneth E. Bressett graded it extremely fine in
their 1962 book The Fantastic 1804 Dollar. When it was last sold, in 1980 as
part of the Garrett sale, it was also graded EF-40. Before NGC graded it
Proof-55, ANACS had graded it, also EF-40.

Similarly, NGC graded the Mickley-Hawn-Queller Class I dollar (pictured at
the top of this page) Proof-62, whereas Eric P. Newman and Kenneth E.
Bressett graded it "very nearly uncirculated," Walter Breen "EF-AU, poorly
cleaned," and Q. David Bowers Proof-50. This is the last 1804 dollar to
reach the market, having sold for $3,737,500 through Heritage Auction
Galleries in April 2008.



These sleight-of-hand grading tricks with 1804 dollars by the legitimate
grading companies may boost the selling prices of these coins, and they may
create an incentive for those selling these kinds of coins to submit them
for treatment like this, but they don't reflect well on the grading services
or numismatics. On the other hand, official and unofficial trickery has
always been a part of numismatics in this and other ways."



http://home.comcast.net/~reidgold/draped_busts/page_3.html

[Mike W]

Why can't Ebay just let people buy what they want and sell what they want.
Buyers of ANACS graded coins, replica medals, tokens, etc....know what they
want and what they are getting.

"Ken Barr" <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote in message
news:ken-454E83.0...@nntp.aioe.org...