Hawaii Hapalua 1/2 Dollar on Copper Plate
Donald Weber
Robert Hairgrove
>
> Photo LINK 2
> <http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/3/2/3/2/9/webimg/424001143_o.jpg>
Curious piece. The image looks like a photoshop job to me (especially
the obverse), or else the stamp was done separately and inserted into a
hole in the plate. Doesn't look like it was struck directly onto the
plate to me.
Wonder if it was a counterfeit in the making?
Donald Weber
It's not an altered picture and it's not something inserted into a hole in
the plate. It's a solid copper plate which was placed into a press and
stamped with the dies of that 1883 coin. You can see where the plate bulges
away from the sides from what I would guess was the pressure of the press
and on close examination the metal flows as you expect around the edges of
the design. The weakness in the designs edge around the 3:00 position is the
same on both sides. As to it being something involved in making a
counterfeit, that was my thought. Testing the design on a scrap piece of
copper maybe. I was hoping someone would have seen something like this
before and have an explanation. Anyway, thanks for the comment.
Don
Coin Forum
"Donald Weber" <dwe...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oYGdnQ9fzo23TUPR...@earthlink.com...
Could be a die trial piece.
Whatever it is, it most likely is unique.
Frank Provasek
SInce these coins were struck by the US Mint on standard US blanks, it
doesn't make any sense that a die trial would be
made on a piece of copper. On the other hand, a counterfeit die that
would produce fake coins that just "weren't quite
right" might be used to make these impressive "must be rare" die trial
impressions. Just my gut feeling.
Ken Barr
<533addee-d14d-4667...@w21g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Frank Provasek <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
According to Medcalf & Russell ("Hawaiian Money, Standard Catalog,
Second Edition", 1991), sixteen sets of patterns (1/8 dollar, 1/4
dollar, 1/2 dollar and dollar) were struck in copper. They are
not illustrated, so I dunno if they were struck on planchets in
collars like the production pieces, or just splashed on copper bars.
It might be worth it to the OP to call Don Medcalf at 808-531-6251
(Hawaii time) and see if he's familiar with the piece ...
--
Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Peninsula CC (Naperdak Hall, San Jose), Nov 11
Donald Weber
saw that in 1883 (Maybe 1884 using the 1883 date) The Philadelphia Mint
struck 18 pieces of the Half Dollar Hapalua as Proofs in copper as trials.
They also struck 26 proof sets of the whole 1883 series of Hawaian coins for
dignitaries of the time. (None for sale to the public). I have read that
these sets were in copper as well. But most reports have them as in 90/10
Silver.
I am very prone to think of this as a trial strike of the dies in a
counterfeit operation. I have never seen nor heard of the mint ever just
thrusting a slab of copper in the press and striking a quick trial piece.
(What would that do to the collars in the press?) If they had such would be
known to the hobby.
But it is an intersting piece, curious for sure.
Don
Nick Knight
>I am very prone to think of this as a trial strike of the dies in a
>counterfeit operation. I have never seen nor heard of the mint ever just
>thrusting a slab of copper in the press and striking a quick trial piece.
>(What would that do to the collars in the press?) If they had such would be
> known to the hobby.
>But it is an intersting piece, curious for sure.
These look like they are "innies" as opposed to outies. Then, it's hard to
tell exactly from the photos, but that's what the shadows suggest to me. Is
this correct? So how would or could production dies produce these? In
particular, the denticles that are inset?? Are the denticles made by the
collar? Or are they one the dies themselves? Either case, I'm not sure how
they got on these pieces.
Just a curious thought. I've seen old Talers impressed into plates and
bowls, but I never looked too closely. Next time I will!
Nick