"Newbie" needs pointers re getting graded
Extra Person
My husband and I are amateur coin collectors, but it's been several
years since we've been into it. Kind of took a back-seat to other
hobbies and needs.
Anyway, due to a death in the family, we recently aquired a small
collection of loose coins (and a few bills). We were told that some of
the coins may have a rather respectable value. We did a quick look
yesterday for some, mostly using eBay as a guide for guesstimating. One
coin is being offered at from 1-3 thousand dollars, depending on
condition/grade of course. Being amateurs, we can only guess as to how
ours might fare grade-wise.
So - what I need is a for-dummies guide on how to go about getting a
coin offically graded. I think there are two differnt outfits for
offically grading coins, whose grades are pretty much universally
accepted by collectors and dealers?
Someone also told me you have to mail coins in. I'm not really a
paranoid person, but isn't that risky? Aside from the possible loss in
the mail, what if it's not received by a reputable person? How would we
know if the coin they send back is the same one we sent in?
Dumb questions, I'm sure, but I want to make sure I don't do somthing
stupid in case any of these coins do turn out to actually be worth
something.
Suggestions/advice please.
Thanks,
MP
Mr. Jaggers
The top-rated grading services are PCGS and NGC. Both have websites that
you can visit. Sending a coin to PCGS is very expensive. First, you must
be a member, for a fee. Then you have to send the coin to them, preferably
via registered mail, along with their grading fee ($30 for regular service),
plus an $8 per order fee, plus return registered postage. The whole affair
will end up costing you well over $100 if you go that route. The danger of
not getting your same coin back is vanishingly small. They may or may not
grade your coin. If it is genuine, it will at least come back in a nice
holder marked "genuine" and if they deem it to be sufficiently unmolested
(no official definition of that term) it will bear a statement of their
opinion as to grade. This opinion is just that. There is no such thing as
"universally accepted" no matter who grades the coin.
I've never sent a coin to NGC, so I can't speak to the issues there. But
NGC does have a sister company, NCS, that grades "problem" coins.
A less expensive route would be to take the coin to a dealer who is a member
of PCGS and send it via that dealer. He will likely send your coin in along
with several others, which cuts down on the postage-per-coin, as well as the
$8 per-order fee. Even if he charges you for the service, it should be
mconsiderably less than if you try to do it all yourself. In the process of
handling the coin he may see something that he knows will prevent the coin
from being graded and save you the hassle entirely. Of course, you'd have
to have at least some faith in that dealer. I think the PCGS site has a
list of dealers who will accept coin submissions.
For the record, what is the coin that you believe is worth the large sum?
Perhaps our knowing that will trigger additional suggestions.
James
Chuck D'Ambra
MiscPe...@webtv.net (Extra Person) wrote:
You could take photographs of the coins before submitting them for your
own peace of mind, but the major coin grading firms are unlikely to
commit corporate suicide by replacing or any other sort of shenanigans
with your coins.
As far as possibly being lost in the mail, you should send coins with a
total value potentially above $1K by registered mail with insurance,
which is the safest option. Grading companies generally return coins by
registered mail and, of course, charge you for it. Alternatively, they
often do grading on site at major coins shows. If there's one coming up
in your area, you could submit the coins there and eliminate that risk
and expense.
There are no companies whose grades are "pretty much universally
accepted by collectors and dealers" but the two you most likely have in
mind, PCGS and NGC, are considered to be the most accurate and
consistent. They both require that you either submit the coins through
an authorized dealer or have a certain membership. Details should be
available on their web sites, which are linked in the Coin Collecting
FAQ hosted on my site:
http://www.telecoins.com/faq2.html#SLAB
If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend contacting coin shops in
your area to find out if they're authorized to submit coins for grading
to either or both of those services and have at least one dealer that is
look at the coins and offer opinions on which ones are worth it. After
that pre-screening you can decide which coins to have them submit for
you and at which tier of service. Good luck and please let us know how
it it goes.
--
Chuck D'Ambra, Telesphere Numismatics
web site address: www.telecoins.com
remove the upper case letters if replying by e-mail
Extra Person
a dealer sounds like the way to go.
Now I have another quesion. Since even the two graders mentioned aren't
"universally accepted" standards, what really would be the difference
between a grading and an appraisal?
Later today I'll work on getting a picture of it up for you all to look
at.
MP
Mr. Jaggers
Appraisals are even less universally accepted than grading. They are often
little more than an offer to buy unless you, again, pay a fee. And you
still don't know what you have, really.
A picture would be an excellent idea. But don't post it directly here, post
a link to it.
James
Mr. Jaggers
Except that PCGS charges $100 per coin for at-show service, and it's seldom
same-day. Of course, you can submit coins for them to take back to CA for
grading, which saves you the sending postage, but all the other fees still
apply, plus the costs of travel to the show, parking, and perhaps an entry
fee. I did just that at the recent CICF, but I was going there anyway.
The rates that they charge for return registered mail are generally far
above what the USPS actually charges. There has to be a hidden "packing"
fee in there somewhere.
James
Bob F.
"Extra Person" <MiscPe...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3975-49F...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
> Hi,
>
> My husband and I are amateur coin collectors, but it's been several
> years since we've been into it. Kind of took a back-seat to other
> hobbies and needs.
>
> Anyway, due to a death in the family, we recently aquired a small
> collection of loose coins (and a few bills). We were told that some of
> the coins may have a rather respectable value. We did a quick look
> yesterday for some, mostly using eBay as a guide for guesstimating.
> One
> coin is being offered at from 1-3 thousand dollars, depending on
> condition/grade of course. Being amateurs, we can only guess as to how
> ours might fare grade-wise.
Being "offered" at $1,000-$3,000 is not quite the same as being SOLD for
$1,000-$3,000!
Furthermore, when it comes to coins GRADING is king.
A difference of 1 or 2 grades can mean the difference of 100's,
sometimes 1000's of dollars.
> So - what I need is a for-dummies guide on how to go about getting a
> coin offically graded. I think there are two differnt outfits for
> offically grading coins, whose grades are pretty much universally
> accepted by collectors and dealers?
There are no "official" graders of coins, just grading services of which
some are more highly regarded than others.
PCGS is currently the collector's darling, followed by NGC and in a
distant 3rd and a remote 4th are ANACS and IGC.
Collectors of Canadian coinage prefer ICCS and, to a lesser extent,
CCCS.
Before you go off half cocked and spend hundreds, buy a Red Book or a
Coin Values magazine to see what you have is worth.
The Red Book will even give you pointers on how to roughly grade your
treasure.
(The prices listed in Red Book are RETAIL prices and quite fanciful in
some instances.)
> Someone also told me you have to mail coins in. I'm not really a
> paranoid person, but isn't that risky? Aside from the possible loss in
> the mail, what if it's not received by a reputable person? How would
> we
> know if the coin they send back is the same one we sent in?
Registered Mail is about 99.9% safe.
No reputable grading company would be so foolhardy as to destroy its
reputation by substituting coins.
I have never heard of this happening with any major grader.
mister...@yahoo.com
There are only dumb answers.
Find a coin dealer who is a member of the ANA. That stands for
American Numismatic Association--they're supposed to be more ethical
and typically they are. Stay away from pawn shops, E-bay, any of those
companies who grade coins and don't allow some friend of a friend who
supposedly knows a lot about coins to look at them for you. Take any
advice from internet chat boards with a big amount of skepticism too.
Go to a book store or coin dealer and buy a Redbook -- that'll tell
you what you may have. Take them to a reputible coin dealer once you
know what you have-- in general terms-- and they'll tell you there if
they're worth sending in to get professionally graded and
encapsulated. If it's from an estate you'll need to file 1099's and
all that if you sell any before the estate is completed. You'll be
looking for someone who won't see some rare variety you might have and
not tell you about it--and they'll only pay you about 25-30% of what
it's *worth*.
Extra Person
http://coinpictures.blogspot.com/
You can click on the pics to see them larger, and leave comments re each
item right on the blog if you want.
After taking the pics and viewing them larger-than-life, it looks like
we have a bunch of crap. :(
I believe someone picked through the collection before passing it on to
us, and the one coin left we think might be worth getting graded (the
Missouri commemorative half dollar), it looks like that person rubbed
the patina off the center of the face side. :(
Some of the other coins have "charm holes" in them from apparently being
on bracelet or necklace or such so are undoubtably worthless. :(
So that's that. Have fun looking, and i'll be interested in your
feedback, even if it's just to say, "yep, you got a bunch of crap."
MP
Bob F.
they aren't worth something.
The 10 cent notes and the Canada 25 cent note have value.
If you are looking to sell the undamaged coins like the bust half and
the commem, you'd probably get a fair price on eBay.
The silver coins you can sell as bullion.
The non-silver Kennedy halves and Ike dollars can be spent or given to
children to inspire them to collect.
"Extra Person" <MiscPe...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6799-49F9...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
Mr. Jaggers
If the Missouri half is indeed rubbed, it will not slab. Such items are
fairly common at coin shows, often priced at $400-$500, but seldom selling
for that amount. I see the same coins year after year after year in the
same dealers' cases.
I make no claims of knowledge about the paper items, someone else will have
to comment on those. The coins, though, are not worth much more than face
or bullion value, with the exception of the Missouri half and the bust half.
James
Bob F.
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:gtctd...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> I see the same coins year after year after year in the same dealers'
> cases.
You'd think they'd wise up but they never seem to "get" it.
I see the same thing here.
Ditto for the "antiquarian" book fairs where I see the same books at the
same dealers years on end, yet they won't come down from their asking
price.
OK with me, let them schlep those heavy books back and forth and let
them become more shelf-worn.
eBay and Amazon have all but killed the used book business but the
old-time dealers don't want to wake up to the new reality.
Mr. Jaggers
I know a lot of people who like to poke around in used book stores, and I
include myself in that category. But if I really want something, Abebooks
is the place I go, even though the prices can be higher. By the way, as a
book guy, you may be interested in this:
http://wiki.coinbooks.org/index.php/How_to_Pack_Books
James
Bob F.
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
> I know a lot of people who like to poke around in used book stores,
> and I include myself in that category.
When I was going to college, lower 4th Ave in NYC was alive with used
book stores (all gone now) and I spent many hours rummaging thru them.
The rare instances when I have time when in the city, I still try to hit
some of the used book stores like the Strand and Argosy.
Unfortunately there are very few used book stores left in Manhattan or
Long Island.
Thomas A.
I agree completely with this assessment.
There are even people who collect holed coins (try eBay for this one too).
look@worldnet.att.net don't look
I'll put it this way.You will almost certainly not get full value for a rare
coin unless it is graded by PCGS or NGC.PCGS graded coins almost always sell
for more than NGC graded coins.
Bob F.
news:TIsKl.1659$fy....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> I'll put it this way.You will almost certainly not get full value for
> a rare
> coin unless it is graded by PCGS or NGC.PCGS graded coins almost
> always sell
> for more than NGC graded coins.
You are an imbecile.
The grading costs for the coins in question far exceed their value.
Why don't you take your head out of your ass before you post?
mister...@yahoo.com
The foriegn coins are something you may also want to do some research
on with each coin--there might be something there worthy--you just
never know. Otherwise they'd make great Halloween hand-outs! One in
the pile looks like it could be a small gold coin maybe? Hard to say
with the picture.
The Missouri has been harshly cleaned and then it's gotten back some
tone. Someone really rubbed on that one--totally ruining it.
The IHC has been cleaned a long time ago and then re-toned.
The Morgan has been harshly cleaned and then it's re-toned--that one
looks like it had a semi-prooflike obverse so that's really too bad
there!
The bust half looks corroded with recent scratches. You'd be lucky to
see $50 for that one.
The Walker is worth maybe 8-10 bucks. Someone partially cleaned that
one too.
The Seated half has been harshly cleaned and holed--worth maybe 10-20
bucks.
The Barber quarter is worth about 5 bucks.
The Liberty nickle is about 2 bucks.
The Bi-Ike has been polished--worth a buck.
The rest is all nothing worthy exept the Kennedy silvers which you can
sell for the melt value--not much there.
If it were me I'd stick them in one bag and sell it all to a kid for
face value.
The Kennedy halves are looking bad too--someone cleaned all those. The
bust half is probably corroded--it's really dark and with those it's a
risky proposition sending one in to be graded. Plus it's got those
newer scratches making it undesirable.
raginSteveK
I left a comment with one of your pre-Civil War coins. It may not be
useful from a value point of view, but possibly of historic interest
(of course, a Civil War/ history buff may value them more highly than
a normal collector might).
Extra Person
>The 10 cent notes and the Canada 25
>cent note have value.
I couldn't find anything on the 10-cent notes. Tried Googling "10 cent
note" + "US currency" and came up with nothing.
Is "10-cent note" their official name, so to speak?
MP
Extra Person
>If the Missouri half is indeed rubbed, it will
>not slab.
That means it can't be graded, right? Bummer because to our untrained
eyes it seems to be in fairly decent condition otherwise.
MP
Extra Person
>There are even people who collect holed
>coins (try eBay for this one too).
I guess if it exists, there's a collector for it somewhere.
I am now the "proud" owner, lol, of two heavy coin bracelets. One came
with this collection from the deceased grandparents, and the other was
given to me years ago, came from my great-grandmother's things.
I considered them interesting but completely worthless. I don't plan on
selling them, but still good to know there might be someone out there
who would want them if I did.
MP
Bruce Remick
or
Bruce Remick
Probably not "completely worthless". I assume that the bracelet is old
enough that at least some of the coins (if US) would be silver and/or gold.
If so, it could have a significant metal value. Nineteenth century gold and
silver coins, even when holed, usually will bring a premium on eBay above
their metal value.
Extra Person
>I left a comment with one of your pre-Civil
>War coins. It may not be useful from a
>value point of view, but possibly of historic
>interest (of course, a Civil War/ history
>buff may value them more highly than a
>normal collector might).
Thanks, I found your comment very interesting. I'm wondering though, how
would a coin - of which hundreds of thousands were probably minted -
serve to identify a soldier? Can you give a little more background on
that? Thanks,
MP
Extra Person
>The foriegn coins are something you may
>also want to do some research on with
>each coin--there might be something there
>worthy--you just never know.
I have a large collection of foriegn coins I started collecting for
interests-sake rather than any financial value. Years ago, I took the
time to look each one up (what exactly it was and its metal content) and
label it.
I will do the same for this odd lot, but doubt there's any gold there.
;)
>The Missouri has been harshly cleaned
>and then it's gotten back some tone.
>Someone really rubbed on that
>one--totally ruining it.
So you don't think it was recently rubbed?
My Grandfather would have known better than to do that, and after his
passing some 10 years ago, I really don't believe my Grandmother would
have had any reason to take the coins out and clean them, I think they
probably just sat in a drawer somewhere until her recent passing. So we
thought that the person who sent them to me probably rubbed them 'cause
they didn't know any better.
Do you think it could have "gotten back some tone" if it had been
rubbed, say, two months ago? Or do you think it was longer ago than
that?
---------------
Mister Beeman wrote:
The IHC has been cleaned a long time ago and then re-toned. The Morgan
has been harshly cleaned and then it's re-toned--that one looks like it
had a semi-prooflike obverse so that's really too bad there!
The bust half looks corroded with recent scratches. You'd be lucky to
see $50 for that one.
The Walker is worth maybe 8-10 bucks. Someone partially cleaned that one
too.
The Seated half has been harshly cleaned and holed--worth maybe 10-20
bucks.
The Barber quarter is worth about 5 bucks. The Liberty nickle is about 2
bucks.
The Bi-Ike has been polished--worth a buck. The rest is all nothing
worthy exept the Kennedy silvers which you can sell for the melt
value--not much there. If it were me I'd stick them in one bag and sell
it all to a kid for face value.
The Kennedy halves are looking bad too--someone cleaned all those. The
bust half is probably corroded--it's really dark and with those it's a
risky proposition sending one in to be graded. Plus it's got those newer
scratches making it undesirable.
-----------------------
The coins were poorly packaged for shipping so when they arrived on my
end, the coins were all completely lose in the box, free to bang up
against the other contents. :( That would probably account for the new
scratches.
I'm still curious about the toning/cleaning though. As I said, I think
my Grandfather would have known better, but you seem to think the
cleaning was done a long time ago, so maybe he didn't.
MP
Mr. Jaggers
Most of them are. I've seen very few with much wear on them at all.
Original surfaces, well, that's a different story. And it won't be graded
unless the surfaces are unmolested by rubbing, cleaning, etc. It could
still be slabbed, but only as "genuine," which doesn't really get you
anything, because in the eyes of collectors the cleaning trumps the tiny
chance that it might not be real.
James
mister...@yahoo.com
Yes--that Bust half -- that looks like that's just exactly what
happened. That may have been a worthy one--depends on if it's got
corrosion or tone--that's really tough to tell which it is sometimes.
Even the pro graders have trouble with that one. But it got those new
marks on it which makes it totally lose a lot of value either way. It
just looks bad. It banged around in the box. And if you look closely
at some of those coins you'll notice the marks in the fields are all
about the same from coin to coin. That's what happens when someone
tries cleaning a coin. You'll see hairline scratches that criss-cross
each other. Someone rubbed them with a cloth at one time--and what
happens is there's some crud that gets trapped in the cloth and turns
it into sandpaper.
Take your thumb, rub it all over your nose and then rub the Bust half--
then sit it on a window sill for a couple of years.
Bruce Remick
<mister...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:98e63f73-13a8-4953...@l28g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
_______
And it will turn into a handsome prince?
Extra Person
Thanks. Going on that lead I used "fractional currency" in search terms
and found tons of info. Interesting.
If there was any value in this lot, it's that it has re-established our
interest in coins. Thanks to everyone who responded.
MP