Frank and Reid quoted in COINage article on eBay fakes
Frank Provasek
collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins
http://www.frankcoins.com Ebay FRANKCOINS
Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
PCGS, NGC, & ANACS authorized dealer, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259
gogu
news:8d31ff10-d23e-4acf...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> Reid Goldsborough and I, along with Barry Stuppler and several other
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
Well done!
PS
Now wait and see the reaction of the usual troll...
Bob F.
news:8d31ff10-d23e-4acf...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> Reid Goldsborough and I, along with Barry Stuppler and several other
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
Does the article explain why you have been suspended from eBay and had
your auctions cancelled numerous times?
mazorj
"gogu" <Rruminii...@Greci.com> wrote in message
news:GPidnXMqttV7McjX...@giganews.com...
10, 9, 8, 7, 6...
mazorj
"Bob F." <ad...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:h34kke$od7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
5-4-3-2-1-boom! Three minutes sooner than I expected.
oly
> Reid Goldsborough and I, along with Barry Stuppler and several other
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
>
> ----
> Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
> PCGS, NGC, & ANACS authorized dealer, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259
I thought that COINage had went bankrupt and folded after the original
founder died a few years back. It's NOT available on the newstands
hereabouts anymore.
oly
Bruce Remick
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0d3b4ad3-c171-4a1a...@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
oly
______________
Shhhhhh. Don't go spoiling things for Frank and Reid.
Bob F.
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:h5l5m.25122$_S2....@newsfe17.iad...
Yes, they plan to have articles published in Colliers and The Saturday
Evening Post.
gogu
news:RZk5m.1638$P5...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
LOL
Thanks mazorj for answering this one as I have Bob F. in my killfile!
Sad indeed what hatred can do to a man's (senti)mental world...
oly
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
>
> ----
> Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
> PCGS, NGC, & ANACS authorized dealer, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259
You know, between e-bay (for world coins and historical medals and
general books) and Amazon and Borders.com (both for books), the
internet makes my life quite a bit better. Not only do I seem to save
money, but more importantly, I learn about items that I didn't know
existed in the first place. Also, it seems to me that e-bay and
Amazon and borders.com do force the local coin dealers and the local
bookman to price more competitively. In the course of collecting
coins since the late 1960s, I've only bought two and one-half or three
fakes (all gold), and they were all purchased from local dealers, not
e-bay. Are the folks at e-bay haughty??? Maybe (and I really didn't
like their former CEO Meg Whitman). Is e-bay a great resource???
Yes.
Borders of course seems to be in a death spiral. This is too bad.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
The Internet and eBay *rule*!
> Borders of course seems to be in a death spiral. This is too bad.
I've noticed that, too. I get countless, breathless emails from them
containing 25% off coupons that expire before I have time to make the long
trip from North Lugburz down to a population center that has a Borders. Not
that long ago, when I first heard of Borders, I sought one out and had to
park a full block away from it because of all the other clients in there at
the time.
James the Bookworm
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Their overwhelming problem is in the realm of finance, not in their
ability to find and vend good books. My vague understanding is that
the Borders' financial problem was MOL inevitable from the get-go it
seems; too much debt to service under any circumstances, let alone in
a recession. Financiers get paid to do the deal up front; if they had
to collect their winnings over the life of the deals, the deals would
get done differently.
We had a long-time Waldenbooks here in the Patch that became part of
Borders before said store closed. So to visit a Borders store, I must
happen to be in Peoria, Chambana, Fairview Heights or B-N (all in the
seventy to ninety mile range). The Borders store in Chambana is very
good, as befits a college town (the store is a long way from Campus,
however).
BUT note that those discount coupons are usually just as valid at
Borders.com - and if you spend fifty dollars (or more) and are rather
patient, you can usually get media mail or some private delivery
equivalent for free. My eldest niece recently gave me a Borders gift
card and I got a 4th Edition (new) Standard Catalog 1601-1700, with
DVD, for only $29 out of my own pocket, free delivery in five days.
It is hit or miss, but Borders' bargain tables are occasionally
fantastic.
oly
PC
> oly wrote:
>> e-bay. Are the folks at e-bay haughty??? Maybe (and I really didn't
>> like their former CEO Meg Whitman). Is e-bay a great resource???
Of course not. Along with "half-breeds" and "queer lefist elites" you also
have to worry about women in power.
Poor Oly and his racist, sexist viewpoints.
oly
Yep, and I'm kind of hoping Meg Whitman stays in the race for Governor
of California and wins. She deserves the headache.
We got lucky here in Illinois yesterday - the rather young woman who
will eventually be our first woman governor put it off for at least
four more years. By not running now, she almost ensures that a
Republican will be elected in 2010 - thank gawd.
oly
Frank Provasek
>
> I thought that COINage had went bankrupt and folded after the original
> founder died a few years back. It's NOT available on the newstands
> hereabouts anymore.
>
> oly
It's been published continuously since 1964
Mr. Jaggers
If gawd served up the last Flatlander Republican governor, it must have been
when he was having a really bad day.
James the Blasphemer
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
If you're refering to former Governor George Ryan, he is a fine man.
A victim of excessive pride and the changing times. He may have
wanted the governorship a little too much, and he may not have changed
sufficiently with the times as the standard(s) of grafting changed
here in Illinois. IMHO, the "evidence" at his trial was
circumstantial (at best) and there was never any "smoking gun"
produced. But I personally know that he and his wife are good
people.
Governor Ryan even offered to put an income tax increase through at
the end of his term to help incoming Governor Blagojevich with this
state's money problems. Mr. Ryan said that he had the power to push
it through and that he would take the 100% of the heat for that, yet
Blago refused.
If I had to fault GWB for anything at all, it would be that he didn't
commute (at a minimum) Governor Ryan's sentence to time already
served.
oly
mazorj
"gogu" <Rruminii...@Greci.com> wrote in message
And I'm allegedly in his (for the second time now). Personally, I've
never killfiled anyone but YMMV.
Turn down your speakers if tender ears are nearby. This pretty well
sums up the worst of the Internet:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543
Any resemblance to rcc is hardly coincidental.
gogu
news:yZo5m.1683$P5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "gogu" <Rruminii...@Greci.com> wrote in message
> news:3IGdnSueYPjgQ8jX...@giganews.com...
>>? "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> ?????? ??? ??????
>>news:RZk5m.1638$P5...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>>>
>>> "Bob F." <ad...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:h34kke$od7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> your auctions cancelled numerous times?
>>> 5-4-3-2-1-boom! Three minutes sooner than I expected.
>> LOL
>> Thanks mazorj for answering this one as I have Bob F. in my killfile!
>> Sad indeed what hatred can do to a man's (senti)mental world...
> And I'm allegedly in his (for the second time now). Personally, I've
> never killfiled anyone but YMMV.
>
> Turn down your speakers if tender ears are nearby. This pretty well sums
> up the worst of the Internet:
>
> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543
>
> Any resemblance to rcc is hardly coincidental.
LOL
Indeed coincidental:-)
And thanks for the warning to turn down the speakers!
My secretary was around;-)
Mr. Jaggers
The prison system is just filled to overflowing with "good people."
And just wait 'til Blago comes up for trial. If he sings, there are going
to be a lot more "good people" go down with him. But I hypothesize that
those "good people" will arrange something to squelch his aria before it
gets past the first measure.
> Governor Ryan even offered to put an income tax increase through at
> the end of his term to help incoming Governor Blagojevich with this
> state's money problems. Mr. Ryan said that he had the power to push
> it through and that he would take the 100% of the heat for that, yet
> Blago refused.
So it was a 100% safe gamble. But now look what a mess your state is in.
No wonder some people still refer to it as the "sucker" state.
James the Frank (but not furter)
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Even our senior Senator, Dick Durbin, really went to bat in late 2008
to get George Ryan's sentence commuted to time served.
Well, the timing of Mr. Blagojevich's trial (not likely until next
summer) is part of why the GOP could take the IL governorship next
year. But not my major or sole reason for thinking so.
Illinois politics has always had its messes. But, the present volume
of "mess" is the result of something really interesting but not
commonly perceived. Ask me about it down in STL/ St. Charles.
Back in the day, "sucker" referred to a common, boney, useless and
parasitical fish oft' found in the creeks and waterways here. I'm no
regular fisherman and am not certain whether people still catch lots
of suckers or not. On the exceedingly rare occasion that I cast a
pole, it is into a farm pond about 20 miles north of the Patch.
Solitary farm ponds (not stream fed) don't have "suckers" unless
somebody has pimped you over.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I do not oppose that. Ryan just happened to be the unfortunate e pluribus
unum who got caught. But he's still a crim according to our justice system.
I'd rather see the bigger fish hooked, but probably will not live to see the
day.
> Well, the timing of Mr. Blagojevich's trial (not likely until next
> summer) is part of why the GOP could take the IL governorship next
> year. But not my major or sole reason for thinking so.
>
> Illinois politics has always had its messes. But, the present volume
> of "mess" is the result of something really interesting but not
> commonly perceived. Ask me about it down in STL/ St. Charles.
If you're planning to blame it all on liberals, welfare mothers, or Bill
Clinton, I'll take a pass. I'm just sayin'.
> Back in the day, "sucker" referred to a common, boney, useless and
> parasitical fish oft' found in the creeks and waterways here. I'm no
> regular fisherman and am not certain whether people still catch lots
> of suckers or not. On the exceedingly rare occasion that I cast a
> pole, it is into a farm pond about 20 miles north of the Patch.
> Solitary farm ponds (not stream fed) don't have "suckers" unless
> somebody has pimped you over.
I know that. The Sainted Miss Conibear, my 8th grade social studies
teacher, GRHS, made sure we all knew that.
James the Angler
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, I'm not gonna blame Illinois' extreme level of mess on that
particular unholy trilogy. But the "funny thing" (and an
unspectacular but important thing too) that I will mention can't be
mentioned on usenet, not yet. Too early.
oly
Bob F.
No, I'm not gonna blame Illinois' extreme level of mess on that
particular unholy trilogy. But the "funny thing" (and an
unspectacular but important thing too) that I will mention can't be
mentioned on usenet, not yet. Too early.
Compared to our NY State Senate, Illinois is a model of civic rectitude.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
The Illinois Senate works O.K. internally; the Illinois House works
O.K. internally; our new Governor is a decent gentleman. They just
don't mix well!!! And there is no money to spare.
oly
Gary
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
>
> ----
> Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
> PCGS, NGC, & ANACS authorized dealer, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259
Thanks for your efforts
Jerry Dennis
> ? "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> ?????? ??? ??????news:RZk5m.1638$P5...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Damn, you guys are good!
Jerry
Jerry Dennis
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
Okay, Bob. I agree with you about the NY State Senate. But tell me,
why are you ignoring the Assembly? Sheldon Silver (D-Manhatten)thinks
the NY State Assembly is his little empire. And we've got an idiot
non-elect for governor. Too bad Eliot got caught; he'd have been
great for NY.
Jerry
Macreau
>
> - Show quoted text -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You still wonder why Borders is going bankrupt.....OLY 2 explaind the
underlying reason. ....and that is the profit margin.....The Standard
catalog 1601-1700's retail price is $ 80.00.....Coin dealers pay $
48.00 and distributors get %55 off, that is $ 36.00...Borders does
get these books at $ 36.00........Now what kind of discount do they
give that it cost 29.00 to Oly??? Of course one has to know how much
was Oly's nieces gift card. Did she pay for it or was it a discount
coupon....Where is the profit? 10%. 20%, 25%, 40% is understandable
but in the long run it will cause problems if they apply the same
discount schedule to all their books.
Althought these discounts help the ultimate consumer it is a slow
death for mega chains. Little here...little there....the profit is
eaten up....As french say " les petit ruisseaux font des grand
rivieres" meaning
small brooks make big rivers ....In this case little misssed profits
would multiply in the long run....
oly
>
> You still wonder why Borders is going bankrupt.....OLY 2 explaind the
> underlying reason. ....and that is the profit margin.....The Standard
> catalog 1601-1700's retail price is $ 80.00.....Coin dealers pay $
> 48.00 and distributors get %55 off, that is $ 36.00...Borders does
> get these books at $ 36.00........Now what kind of discount do they
> give that it cost 29.00 to Oly??? Of course one has to know how much
> was Oly's nieces gift card. Did she pay for it or was it a discount
> coupon....Where is the profit? 10%. 20%, 25%, 40% is understandable
> but in the long run it will cause problems if they apply the same
> discount schedule to all their books.
>
> Althought these discounts help the ultimate consumer it is a slow
> death for mega chains. Little here...little there....the profit is
> eaten up....As french say " les petit ruisseaux font des grand
> rivieres" meaning
> small brooks make big rivers ....In this case little misssed profits
>
> - Show quoted text -
I had a 30% discount coupon, a $30 gift card and put $29.50 of my own
money in. It was mailed at no extra charge via USPS at something
higher than the media mail rate. So, if your base of $36 is correct
(I have no reason to doubt it), then Borders maybe made $15 to $20 on
my internet order. Operationally, Borders is running great on all
cylinders.
That doesn't sound bad, but the problem would be doing the corporate
debt service. If you have too much debt at too high an interest rate,
you can do everything perfect (and as far as I'm concerned, Borders
handled my order properly in all respects) and still be in deep doo-
doo. It is a financial problem of great company having bad numbers...
oly
oly
Clarification - I think they dinged me a couple of bucks in there for
state sales tax - the numbers don't come out unless you out that in.
Of course, Borders doesn't get to keep the sales tax, except for a
small cut for collecting it. oly
Mr. Jaggers
I have a Barnes & Noble "reader's account", which costs me $25 a year, but
gives me a decent discount on everything and a great discount on some
things. Two questions: 1) How is B&N doing compared to Borders? and 2)
Are list prices of books plussed up to allow for all these discounts at
point of sale?
James
mazorj
...
< I had a 30% discount coupon, a $30 gift card and put $29.50 of my
own
money in. It was mailed at no extra charge via USPS at something
higher than the media mail rate. So, if your base of $36 is correct
(I have no reason to doubt it), then Borders maybe made $15 to $20 on
my internet order. Operationally, Borders is running great on all
cylinders.
<
< That doesn't sound bad, but the problem would be doing the corporate
debt service. If you have too much debt at too high an interest rate,
you can do everything perfect (and as far as I'm concerned, Borders
handled my order properly in all respects) and still be in deep doo-
doo. It is a financial problem of great company having bad numbers...
Was the 30% coupon part of a deliberate, limited promotional strategy,
or are they handing them out like candy because they aren't meeting
volume expectations? I assume it's the former but woe to them if it's
the latter.
Auto manufacturers learned the pitfalls of creating unrealistic cost
expectations in buyers every time they held a distress sale. Ditto
for other retailers. Once you've created the default expectation that
"I should be able to get this any time at 20-30 percent off" then it's
almost impossible to get these customers to buy at "normal" pricing.
The subsequent drop in "normal" sales can more than offset any
temporary gain in volume and market share from the discounting spree.
I once had the same problem in reverse with my son. For awhile, I was
giving him a small "bonus" in his allowance because he was doing a few
things well above and beyond his expected responsibilities. When he
stopped and the bonuses stopped, he kicked up a fuss because I had
"cut" his allowance.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
No, Borders has a 20%, 25% or 30% coupon out there at all times.
Sometimes its on one item, sometimes its on your entire purchase of
"list price" items.
It is a cash flow issue in that no matter what, they gotta have cash
today. Now. ASAP.
They won't make it, which is too bad, they are a great place to buy
books.
I'm not blowing off James' questions, I just don't know about B&N's
finances. Probably go to Google or CBS Marketwatch and find out. I
have come to hate the B&N discount card. It was O.K. at the original
$10, just a few small purchases amortized that; but shit, $25 is an
amount of money that can simply be used for something else (cervza).
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I figger that one has to make a maximum of $250 list price purchases to
amortize that membership card, and I certainly top that each year, so I'm
ahead. In fact, the extra savings are what keep me in Amaretto di Saronno,
my personal weakness.
James the Inebriated
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mon viex, you have independently reached the required $ level that I
also have in mind. Of course, I spend more than that at B&N annually
(I am also pleased that the daughter is becoming an absolutely
voracious recreational reader - of high school cheerleader murder
mysteries - so we spend even more there now). But my purchases are in
$10, $20, $30, $40 amounts per visit, and at any one time, that $25
seems like a lot to pay B&N for the right to a discount. The B&N
reader discount program card is another one of those things that I
have really mixed feelings about.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Since when are you one to pass up a chance to save money?
James the Pennypincher
Mr. Jaggers
I should have said that in French: Jacques le Grippe-Sou
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
But it just doesn't seem like I'm saving money when I am buying
nineteen dollars worth of bargain table books & the bookstore employee
sez "Hey, you want to get a $2.00 discount??? It will only cost you
$25!!!" It is a psychological thingie, and as everybody knows, I'm
psycho.
I keep thinking I'll re-up at B&N when I'm buying a $145 boxed set of
something or another. And then when I finally do make that purchase,
I buy it on the internet from Borders.com (or Amazon) instead, because
they are offering a 30% discount. B&N has simply got their card
priced too high.
oly
dorancoins
> On Jul 9, 8:41 am, "PC" <P...@minneapolis.mn.us> wrote:
>
> > > oly wrote:
> > >> like their former CEO Meg Whitman). Is e-bay a great resource???
>
> > have to worry about women in power.
>
> > Poor Oly and his racist, sexist viewpoints.
>
> Yep, and I'm kind of hoping Meg Whitman stays in the race for Governor
> of California and wins. She deserves the headache.
>
> We got lucky here in Illinois yesterday - the rather young woman who
> will eventually be our first woman governor put it off for at least
> four more years. By not running now, she almost ensures that a
> Republican will be elected in 2010 - thank gawd.
>
Oly, I'm glad that the "rather young woman who will eventually be our
first woman governor" is staying put in her position. As a "card-
carrying Republican", I did not vote for her in her current office in
the many times that she ran, nor did vote for "RamRod" Blagojevich in
the two times that he ran. I do not trust Chicago Democrats (which
all of the highest Illinois state constitutional officers are) and
also, I do not trust Cook or Dupage County Republicans as they do not
understand what people in downstate Illinois (like you and me) need.
Chicago and its suburbs is nothing less than one big fishbowl, and
people from there have no clue what its like to live in "Springpatch"
or Chambana (Champaign-Urbana) or even Chartoon (Charleston-Mattoon).
If I upset any Illinois liberal Chicago Democrats, get over it.
Mr. Jaggers
As that wise old surgeon once said, "Suture self."
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually Mike, the big three Illinois Democrats (M. Madigan, J.
Cullerton, Mayor Daley) are all very very conservative by their
national party standards. Those excellent gentlemen don't make me
lose any sleep whatsoever - and I understand that they gotta throw a
bone to the South Side now and again. Since Lisa Madigan is staying
put for now, that probably means that I will never have to work for a
female Illinois governor - and that is O.K. by me. With any luck,
retirement will hit before 2015. But face it, Lisa is a shoo in
whenever she wants to move up.
Please don't read anything into NOT mentioning Governor Quinn. He is
doing a good job considering the fact that there isn't any money.
oly
-------------------
"Republican born, Republican bred, when I die I'll be Republican
dead!!!"
Mr. Jaggers
I don't trust politicians in general from either party. There are a couple
of local guys, one Republican and one Democrat that I might, just might,
make an exception for. The Rep was once my boss, and the Dem is a
scientist, and both have consistently practiced rational thinking. I have
never "carried a card" and I never will.
James
Mr. Jaggers
I was Republican born and Republican bred, but I got over it. Those guys
that I once greatly admired turned out to be shysters just as big as the
Democrats, and way too many of them have the additional annoying habit of
using God's name and His Word for their own political advantage. No less
than blasphemy in my book.
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
When you're in political city like Springpatch (one of the smallest
political cities in the nation), politics is a spectator sport for a
great many of the inhabitants. You see the players around town,
sometimes you have contact with them in the bureaucracy or just in the
course of everyday affairs. You get to know people, or at least you
learn to reocgnize who is who and who has power. I don't think
there's anything wrong with that.
oly
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h37ts...@enews2.newsguy.com...
My wife has become a fan of several modern fiction writers and regularly
hits the local library for their books. If there's a long waiting list for
a particular book on the Best Seller list, I typically have been able to
pick one up on eBay for less than $10 including shipping, although the list
price may be $27.95. Somebody must be getting these new books pretty cheap.
Paying cover price for a new book nowadays must be like paying sticker price
for a Chevy Suburban.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
My wife plows through the modern fiction (especially murder
mysteries). I think that all the modern fiction in hardback is
automatically 30% off list price, everywhere, and you don't need any
membership card.
One of the things that I like about modern fiction books: you can look
at the dust jackets and they instantly proclaim "This book is CRAP".
This feature saves a lot of time for the serious reader, the time-
honored old axiom not withstanding.
oly
Sizzlelips
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:8d31ff10-d23e-4acf...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
I thought you and Reid weren't on speaking terms since he gave you a
Dirty Sanchez or has that all blown over now?
Googly Eyes
"Sizzlelips" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:h3ga99$488$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
No, they're back together again, happily playing "Dutch Oven" with one
another!
Nick Knight
at 07:09 PM,
"Googly Eyes" <goo...@eyes.invalid> said:
>"Sizzlelips" <inv...@invalid.invalid>
Looks like the socially inept are talking amongst themselves. Again.
Does the pattern look familiar to anyone else?
The thread started out interesting enough ... then denegrated quickly, as
usual, into discussions of non-coin topics. So, now the invalid body-part
factory has fired up, I'll give up on this thread and hope something
coin-ish surfaces soon. It's been a pretty slow summer, eh?
Nick
PC
"Nick Knight" <bhnc...@mr2ice.com> wrote in message
news:4a5bc319$1$avpx$mr2...@news.east.cox.net...
> In <h3gf4g$8qa$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, on 07/13/2009
> at 07:09 PM,
>
> "Googly Eyes" <goo...@eyes.invalid> said:
>>"Sizzlelips" <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>
> Looks like the socially inept are talking amongst themselves. Again.
>
> Does the pattern look familiar to anyone else?
>
Those who are profoundly stupid tend to underestimate others people's
intelligence.
*plonk*
Bob F.
"Nick Knight" <bhnc...@mr2ice.com> wrote in message
news:4a5bc319$1$avpx$mr2...@news.east.cox.net...
Yes, your post raised the level of discourse in this group
exponentially, as usual.
anonymous
a convenient page:
mazorj
"anonymous" <Sco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1598dd74-58ed-434a...@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> For a tribute to "Bob F." and his point of view, here's
> a convenient page:
>
> http://www.tomswiftlives.com/who_is_the_mysterious_other
An extremely thorough take-down of Finnan. Most of the characterizations
are not news to rcc regulars. He exhibits the same behavior and attitudes
here although in slightly- to greatly muted tones compared to some of the
reprehensible behavior that's documented there.
His propensity for creating a chorus of sock puppets is obvious. The most
recent was the transparent exchange between "Googly Eyes" and "Sizzlelips"
but he can be much more devious when he wants.
His only redeeming social value is that when he sticks to numismatics he is
fairly knowledgeable and informative. Unfortunately he posts more OT
vitriol than on-topic information.
oly
> "anonymous" <Scod...@aol.com> wrote in message
Well, I'm NO sockpuppet John Mazor, and I find that RF has forgotten
more about numismatics than you have ever demonstrated knowing.
Acidic and acerbic are far better than tyro and stupid. Hydorchloric
acid is much better than a Type IV individual (like you, Mazor).
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Do you even know what started this thread, mazorj??? Frank slipped a
few SELF-SERVING fibs into a COINage article about fakes on e-bay.
SIGNIFICANT misrepresentations about why Frank keeps getting himself
thrown off of the easiest place in the world to sell a few coins.
Frank wanted all of us to see his latest garbage excuse. Frank thinks
that if something is in newsprint, all of us RCC denizens are just
dumb enough to think it is an indisputable truth. And IF you wanna
talk Sockpuppet, I have never heard of the purported person who wrote
that article before now.
E-bay is about the easiest major place to sell coins IF you can read
the rules AND follow them. Frank can't follow the rules and nobody
has pointed this out better than RF.
oly
mazorj
Have you read the material there, oly? "Acidic and acerbic" are the mildest
possible things you can say about the venom he spews. Some of it was on a
par with your self-indulgent racist screed here a few weeks ago. So no one
should be surprised at your defense of him. Bigots of a feather flocking
together.
(Although for the record, after he posted a half-hearted protest against my
holding your feet to the fire, he never responded to my invitation for him
to reply to any of the four questions I raised about your racist tantrum.
Not even Finnan dared to defend you on that.)
New Question: What in that monograph about Finnan can you disprove? If you
can't disprove a significant portion of it, then as far as you are concerned
it stands in its entirety as a matter of record about Finnan.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
As for holding feet to the fire, at least you don't seriously deny
that you are a numismatic tyro. You should have been here on RCC a
while back when 1/2 the posts were coin dealer puffery and
misrepresentation (all for the purpose of selling U.S. coins for
rather more than they were worth). RF did a lot to send those snakes
out of Ireland and into the sea.
Yeah, it's really difficult to be racist nowadays. Isn't it terrible
what those four white people did in that historic black cemetery in
Chicago??? On par with what those white people did with those
hundreds of bodies at that mortuary down in Georgia a few years back.
Yep, black is pure good and white is satanic. Yep yep yep.
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey mazor - Here's another one that us racist types really like:
"'They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.
I can't even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain't,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be....
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
And then I heard the father talk.
Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these
knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out
of your mouth
In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.
People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an
Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.
The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this
deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?
And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.
I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing
there in an orange suit.
Where were you when he was 2?
Where were you when he was 12?
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had
a pistol?
And where is the father? Or who is his father?
People putting their clothes on backward:
Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't
that a sign of something?
Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and
got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?
What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a
thing about Africa .....
I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they
are European-American. That is totally stupid.
I was born here, and so were my parents and grandparents and, very
likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa,
no more than white Americans have to Germany, Scotland, England,
Ireland, or the Netherlands. The same applies to 99 percent of all
the black Amer icans as regards to Africa.
So stop, already! ! !
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that
crap ......... and all of them are in jail.
Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white
person's problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back..
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight
different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.
We have millionaire football players who cannot read.
We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two
paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.
Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer."
'
- Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.
Respectfully submitted, oly
mazorj
On Jul 14, 8:49 pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 6:33 pm, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > "anonymous" <Scod...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1598dd74-58ed-434a...@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > For a tribute to "Bob F." and his point of view, here's
> > > a convenient page:
>
> > >http://www.tomswiftlives.com/who_is_the_mysterious_other
>
> > An extremely thorough take-down of Finnan. Most of the characterizations
> > are not news to rcc regulars. He exhibits the same behavior and
> > attitudes
> > here although in slightly- to greatly muted tones compared to some of
> > the
> > reprehensible behavior that's documented there.
>
> > His propensity for creating a chorus of sock puppets is obvious. The
> > most
> > recent was the transparent exchange between "Googly Eyes" and
> > "Sizzlelips"
> > but he can be much more devious when he wants.
>
> > His only redeeming social value is that when he sticks to numismatics he
> > is
> > fairly knowledgeable and informative. Unfortunately he posts more OT
> > vitriol than on-topic information.
>
> Well, I'm NO sockpuppet John Mazor, and I find that RF has forgotten
> more about numismatics than you have ever demonstrated knowing.
I've never made any claims to anything more than my modest expertise
warrants here. I've never disputed his numismatic knowledge, and I even
just repeated that concession. Is love making you blind to the written word
about your ally, oly?
> Acidic and acerbic are far better than tyro and stupid. Hydorchloric
> acid is much better than a Type IV individual (like you, Mazor).
>
> oly- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
< Do you even know what started this thread, mazorj??? Frank slipped a
few SELF-SERVING fibs into a COINage article about fakes on e-bay.
What got the monograph link posted here was Finnan's obsession with flaming
FP. Enough others have commented on it to indicate that this has gone
beyond mere "acerbic" anti-social behavior and is crossing the line into a
pathological obsession.
< SIGNIFICANT misrepresentations about why Frank keeps getting himself
thrown off of the easiest place in the world to sell a few coins.
Frank wanted all of us to see his latest garbage excuse. Frank thinks
that if something is in newsprint, all of us RCC denizens are just
dumb enough to think it is an indisputable truth.
I don't give Provacek any more credit or slack than he deserves. Finnan has
made his point, over and over... and over... and over... and over... ad
nauseam. At this point, "Frankly," none of us except you, him, and FP gives
a damn. If Finnan is going to be this kind of an asshole, he can and should
expect that someone out there is going to respond by exposing his faults.
Which in this case, apparently outweigh everything negative he's ever said
about everyone in rcc including FP.
> And IF you wanna talk Sockpuppet, I have never heard of the purported
> person who wrote
that article before now.
Let's see, that's one nym for the monograph author, and how many dozens for
Finnan now?
< E-bay is about the easiest major place to sell coins IF you can read
the rules AND follow them. Frank can't follow the rules and nobody
has pointed this out better than RF.
At this point, I couldn't care less about what FP allegedly did or didn't
do. It's been more than sufficiently noted here. And even if only half the
stuff in the monograph is correct, it can't be any worse than Finnan's
vengeful, psychotic behavior in the book groups as described therein. I
find it ironically entertaining that someone using the same amount of
obsessive attention to detail has compiled a record that is giving Finnan
the dragging through the mud that he deserves.
mazorj
Read my immediately previous post on that.
< You should have been here on RCC a
while back when 1/2 the posts were coin dealer puffery and
misrepresentation (all for the purpose of selling U.S. coins for
rather more than they were worth). RF did a lot to send those snakes
out of Ireland and into the sea.
So what you're saying is that all that obsessive vitriol now has to be
concentrated on FP instead of spread out over several victims.
< Yeah, it's really difficult to be racist nowadays. Isn't it terrible
what those four white people did in that historic black cemetery in
Chicago??? On par with what those white people did with those
hundreds of bodies at that mortuary down in Georgia a few years back.
Yep, black is pure good and white is satanic. Yep yep yep.
You still don't get it, do you, oly? It's not that "black is good" or
"white is bad". It's that "oly's racist screed was over the top bigotry and
you don't have to be a 'politically correct language nazi' to object to such
an unabashed display of ignorant hate."
IOW, in this case oly, it is all about you.
mazorj
$500 sneakers for what?
Respectfully submitted, oly
=================
You little venting here had about as much "respect" in it as a skinhead's
violent attack on some luckless minority who happened to be walking by at
the time.
Oh, I forgot, white people don't do bad stuff. It's just all them
dark-skinned furriners.
I could spend the next hour deconstructing your rant but why bother. You
won't even respond to four simple questions I posed regarding your last one.
So all you get this time is the short version.
PC
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Ald7m.2525$P5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:0569dd11-3c5b-4d90...@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Another hateful, ignorant and bigoted rant.
Wow. You really topped, err bottomed, yourself there scum-boy.
oly
> "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Ald7m.2525$P5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
>
>
> >news:0569dd11-3c5b-4d90...@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>
> Another hateful, ignorant and bigoted rant.
>
> Wow. You really topped, err bottomed, yourself there scum-boy.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Respectfully submitted, oly
> > =================
>
> > You little venting here had about as much "respect" in it as a skinhead's
> > violent attack on some luckless minority who happened to be walking by at
> > the time.
>
> > Oh, I forgot, white people don't do bad stuff. It's just all them
> > dark-skinned furriners.
>
> > I could spend the next hour deconstructing your rant but why bother. You
> > won't even respond to four simple questions I posed regarding your last
>
> - Show quoted text -
Topped myself??? That was Mr. Bill Cosby's rant (very accurate too).
You liberal elitist faeries can't even read.
oly
mazorj
I'll disagree with PC here because your paraphrasing of Cosby doesn't come
close to to the hysterical hissy fit and melt-down where you decreed that "A
left-wing, non-white, homosexual elite has taken over the determination and
dissemnination of the system of values (and much else)" and "Also, the
leftist, half-breed & queer elite cannot tolerate the fact that historic
coins are a generally store of value that is largely outside of their
control (outside of their ability to steal through currency debasement)".
I've omitted quotes #3 and #4 from your astonishing rant, but those are your
exact words, oly, right down to the original typo. You can run from them
but you can't hide your responsibility for them.
I don't disagree with Cosby. He said things that needed to be said. But he
was condemning the behavior of a certain element of black society. Not all
black Americans, not all dark-skinned minorities, and certainly not a
"left-wing, non-white, homosexual... half-breed & queer elite". As such, he
oversimplified and ignored some important factors in order to get his
message heard, but he focused on facts. He didn't couch his message in the
ignorant, rambling, paranoid, racist/homophobic, Obama-slurring vitriol of
your original outburst.
Taking a softer tack by quoting Cosby does not negate your earlier
utterances. In fact, your invoking of Cosby to justify your lunatic racism
and homophobia is like fundamentalist terrorists trying to justify their
actions by quoting the Bible or the Koran. The only connection between
Cosby and the hateful bile of your earlier outburst is in your highly
overactive imagination.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
You cannot out troll a troll here, Mr Mazor. Are you a coin
collector??? By your own "modern" "diversity" value standards, you
should be ashamed of yourself for having anything to do with
numismatics. Organized coin collecting is almost exclusively white
and male; whenever diversities start showing up at coin shows or coin
clubs, the white male organizers simply move away to another location
where hopefully the minorities won't penetrate for at least a few more
years.
If you own any gold or silver coins, you must be planning some
economic crime against "the people". [Of course, if you own any guns,
you are an even bigger criminal against the power and authority of the
State]. If you own any old reference books, old history books, old
biographies or classic literature, then you are simply attempting to
reinforce the superiority of the DWEMS over the glorious new values of
"the people". Of course, the coin bourse is just an unregulated
"cowboy" arena for hiding wealth and for evading income taxes. Those
nasty coin people eat red meat and fried eggs, drink alcohol
copiously, many still smoke tobacco and quite a few screw women (not
all; as noted this group has a sadd number of faeries). In your
modern enlightened liberal diversity society, Mr. Mazor, almost
everything that coin collectors do is a throwback to unenlightened
DWEM attitudes and values. Do you think Oprah or Obama collects
coins??? OTOH, Rush Limbaugh probably has a fine coin collection.
You are one of those nasty coin people, Mr. Mazor. Very very nasty.
You have now personally publicly identified yourself as such, or at
least you are a fellow traveler. You have committed many many crimes
against our modern enlightened society by collecting coins. When the
four A.M. knock on the door finally comes, the thought police will not
let you go just because you were nice to diversities in limited,
controlled workday situations. Finally, just a reminder: don't have
those guns out when the thought police show up - they won't go easy on
you.
oly
P.S. Those who do not disagree with Bill Cosby have also comitted a
very serious crime today. My, aren't you the criminal Mr. Mazor???
mazorj
oly
=============================
Don't quit your day job of shutting down banks to go into satire, oly.
You're not very good at it.
However, when you let yourself get in touch with that inner self that
spewed out your original diatribe, you are fairly adept at expressing
your pathologies using the forms of theater of the absurd.
Mr. Jaggers
I just copied this from a webpage featuring Cosby quotes:
"It isn't a matter of black is beautiful as much as it is white is not all
that's beautiful."
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Gee Mr. Liberal-trash Grand Inquisitor, sir, Mr. Mazor was one of the
few fellow co-conspirators. And he was the one who kept the arsenal
well-stocked AND hidden."
oly
Falstaff
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Well, if black is beautiful, I sent a work of art swirling down the bowl
this morning!
Reality
If you want to get into a political debate in this forum, I'm sorry to
inform you that America has kicked the Republican party to the curb
for quite some time to come, dude. Especially if you are depending on
the Palin-ditz to rescue you, that is.
This only applies if I'm reading your "anti-Liberal" comments
correctly. The "Liberal" taunt is so last election cycle. And it
didn't work.
P.S. Stick to coins and you will be much happier.
Falstaff
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:8d31ff10-d23e-4acf...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> Reid Goldsborough and I, along with Barry Stuppler and several other
> collectors and dealers, were quoted in an excellent three-page article
> on Ebay fakes on page 46 of the July 2009 issue of COINage. In
> addition, I supplied six photos to COINage, including two used on the
> cover, of unmarked fakes offered on eBay from Chinese sources.
>
> I certainly hope this article will increase pressure on eBay to ban
> sales from known counterfeiters, and stop placing penalties and bans
> on people who are trying to warn others about fakes.
>
> Frank Provasek Rare Coins
> http://www.frankcoins.com Ebay FRANKCOINS
> Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
> PCGS, NGC, & ANACS authorized dealer, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259
THIS JUST IN: Frank Provasek is no longer an eBay "Power Seller"!
Film at 11:00!
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h3li1...@enews5.newsguy.com...
Which would make Cosby... an inclusionist!
Oy ve, oly. You get in bed with an inclusionist and there's no
telling what other cooties you'll catch.
Mr. Jaggers
No improvement in the human condition is possible until rational scientific
thought replaces prejudice and hate. Unfortunately, the former is
diminishing in our time and the latter is increasing, so I don't expect to
see any improvement during the time I have left. Sad.
James
PC
Typical. I am very aware of Mr. Cosby's outspoken comments and I have seen
him deliver it. He is right that people need to take responsibility for
themselves. Unfortunately you have chosen to distort his message in order
to justify your hateful statements and broad, sweeping generalizations.
Shame on you.
It is quite telling when you have to restort to character assasination
against those who expose your bigotry. That is all you have? Sad.
>
> I don't disagree with Cosby. He said things that needed to be said. But
> he was condemning the behavior of a certain element of black society. Not
> all black Americans, not all dark-skinned minorities, and certainly not a
> "left-wing, non-white, homosexual... half-breed & queer elite". As such,
> he oversimplified and ignored some important factors in order to get his
> message heard, but he focused on facts. He didn't couch his message in
> the ignorant, rambling, paranoid, racist/homophobic, Obama-slurring
> vitriol of your original outburst.
>
Exactly.
oly
> "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I knew when the queers got mentioned, PC would jump back into this
thread.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I've never been able to understand why one person's sexuality is such a
problem in the eyes of another.
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
While I am slightly younger than you, mon vieux, I also remember
hearing the Bill Cosby recordings back in the 1960s - they were witty,
irreverant and intelligently done (with the caveat that one might
think that Cosby also had nearly as many joke writers as the next
stand-up guy). They were original in the sense that they were being
utterred by a black man. They were also the Camel's nose underneath
the edge of the tent. They were a sign of the Camel wanting in the
tent.
Now, not only is the Camel in the tent, but we've got Camel shit on
the floor, Camel shit on the beds, Camel shit on our hands, Camel shit
in our hair, Camel shit in our heads, Camel shit on the frickin'
television, and Camel shit in every institution that used to be
respectable and/or sacred. Camel shit this and Camel shit that.
America doesn't need any more freaking Camels. America needs less
Camels. Americans don't need to honor Camels. Americans need to call
a Camel a Camel. I'm very happy to structure my life so I don't have
to interact with very many Camels.
oly
oly
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Simply put, certain alternative lifestyles are the culture of death.
Sorry to put it that frankly, but that's the way it is. One of the
big goals of any functional human society is to produce a next
generation who are capable of thinking and acting at least somewhat
rationally. "Diversity" in all its various beauties (NOT) works
against that fundamental goal.
You're gonna go around and around with a troll who believes that there
are absolute moral values under heaven, which can be known and which
have already been expressed millenia ago.
oly
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h3ni1...@enews2.newsguy.com...
>>
>> I knew when the queers got mentioned, PC would jump back into this
>> thread.
>
Wow, I mean, wow.
The fact that he believes I would be threatened by such baseless and
meaningless allegations says a lot.
> I've never been able to understand why one person's sexuality is such a
> problem in the eyes of another.
>
Most people I know stopped accusing others of being a "fag" after the 4th or
5th grade.
Mr. Jaggers
Correct me if I misinterpret you, but I think you're using the word "Camel"
as a stand-in for "Black" or "African-American" or whatever the politically
correct mot du jour happens to be. If that is indeed the case, we
non-Camels need to acknowledge how the original Camels were brought to North
America, and by whom, and for what purpose. Then we need to acknowledge
that the Great Emancipator neglected to have a plan to deal with the
millions of Camels who were suddenly freed from their shackles. The fruits
of that failure could have been successfully predicted by any intelligent
social scientist in 1863.
If your desire is to structure your life so as to avoid Camels, that is
entirely your business, but the Camels are still there. So, what's your
solution to the problem you perceive?
James
PC
> oly wrote:
>>
>> Now, not only is the Camel in the tent, but we've got Camel shit on
>> the floor, Camel shit on the beds, Camel shit on our hands, Camel shit
>> in our hair, Camel shit in our heads, Camel shit on the frickin'
>> television, and Camel shit in every institution that used to be
>> respectable and/or sacred. Camel shit this and Camel shit that.
>>
Excuse me, I need to go wash.
There is shit involved here, I will agree with that. Shit with a solid
layer of scum on top of it.
oly
Camels can be whatever you want them to be. There are so many types
of Camels prancing around today that would have been minding their P's
and Q's forty years ago.
Old Abe wasn't worried one damn bit about Camels of the form you are
thinking of. He was hired to make certain that the Hamiltonian vision
of America trumped the Jeffersonian vision of America.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
A logical extension of this position would dictate that those who practice
certain alternative lifestyles be allowed to quietly continue their practice
until death reduces their population to zero.
In case your hypothesis about certain alternative lifestyles being the
culture of death is faulty, and their practitioners live on, their numbers
will remain limited by scientific reality, and will not interfere in any way
with the larger goals of functional human society. History shows this to
indeed be the case.
> You're gonna go around and around with a troll who believes that there
> are absolute moral values under heaven, which can be known and which
> have already been expressed millenia ago.
Troll notwithstanding, if there indeed exist any absolute moral values, it
is my humble observation that there is a vanishingly small number of
individuals who use them to govern their own actions, but several billion
who use them to govern the actions of others.
James
Mr. Jaggers
I have found that those who are less certain of their own sexuality often
continue the practice into their 60s and beyond.
James
anonymous
http://www.tomswiftlives.com/who_is_the_mysterious_other
oly
wrote:
> oly wrote:
> > On Jul 15, 4:35 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> If your desire is to structure your life so as to avoid Camels, that is
> entirely your business, but the Camels are still there. So, what's your
> solution to the problem you perceive?
>
> James- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I really want to answer that last question too. Actually, I am rather
deeply in despair that we can't get rid of the Camels. Gathering up
good books that have been discarded and accumulating good coins that
illustrate history are defenses of sorts. Making certain that younger
persons in my family get real educations is another defense. I
carefully calculate how much time I think that I have left in this
life, and I try to do the things that I like and avoid Camels.
Have you ever noticed that every Library in America seems to be
discarding their valuable real books so they can get non-book media on
their shelves??? Camels can't handle books either (their hooves are
too clunky). All they can do with paper is shit on it.
However, it is pretty hopeless. The Camels won't be out of the tent
until they've destroyed it first.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I fail to see how any of today's Camels are taking so much as a freckle off
my nose. To anticipate your expected rejoinder to that, I will observe that
all the tax money that ends up funding graft and corruption by politicians
vastly outstrips the amount spent on the welfare of Camels. Tell you what,
you figure out a way to deal with the first, then once you have demonstrated
success with your assignment, I will figure out a way to deal with the
second. That's probably not fair, because I have the easier of the two
tasks, nor would I likely be killed in my mission, as you almost certainly
would be in yours.
> Old Abe wasn't worried one damn bit about Camels of the form you are
> thinking of. He was hired to make certain that the Hamiltonian vision
> of America trumped the Jeffersonian vision of America.
I have great respect for both Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Jefferson, and believe
the best America will rise from a judicious blend of the two opposing
philosophies.
James
oly
My rejoinder was actually going to be that on a personal basis, both
you and I have gotten about whatever we are likely to get out of "the
system" in its present form and that in and of itself allows for a
certain amount of sang-froid.
That last bit about blending the Hamiltonian and Jeffersonian visions
may be a worthy goal, or at least diplomatic. But Abraham Lincoln
spent the last ten years of his private life as a corporate lawyer.
Lincoln did not cause the basic fundamental rift (the division between
two basic visions of what kind of society America should be) that lead
to the Civil War, but he was clearly working for the corporate and
federalist side and sought to implement their vision. Slavery was
only important in that the southern agrarian vision seemed to require
slaves; thus abolishing slavery hit at a fundamental economic
level.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
> On Jul 16, 11:04 am, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com>
> wrote:
>> oly wrote:
>>> On Jul 15, 4:35 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> If your desire is to structure your life so as to avoid Camels, that
>> is entirely your business, but the Camels are still there. So,
>> what's your solution to the problem you perceive?
>>
>> James- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I really want to answer that last question too. Actually, I am rather
> deeply in despair that we can't get rid of the Camels. Gathering up
> good books that have been discarded and accumulating good coins that
> illustrate history are defenses of sorts. Making certain that younger
> persons in my family get real educations is another defense. I
> carefully calculate how much time I think that I have left in this
> life, and I try to do the things that I like and avoid Camels.
Just offhand, I'd say that despair is often generated within the individual,
rather than from without. One can, in many cases, actively deal with it, as
you have suggested, via hobby activity.
What is disturbing to me, one who spent his entire professional life in
public education, is your use of an obvious code word, "real" education. I
could go on and on about this, but probably to no fruitful end.
As far as "carefully" calculating how much time one might have left, I
really don't see that as important as leaving the past behind, living for
today, and hoping for tomorrow. Or maybe it's the same thing. Generations
of poets and philosophers before us have dealt with the same issue, to no
consensus.
> Have you ever noticed that every Library in America seems to be
> discarding their valuable real books so they can get non-book media on
> their shelves??? Camels can't handle books either (their hooves are
> too clunky). All they can do with paper is shit on it.
Part of my professional life saw me as a school librarian for a number of
years. In these times of information explosion, the act of weeding a
library's holdings becomes crucial. If a book has sat on the shelf for the
past twenty years without being used, it is hard to justify not replacing it
with something that will be used. As fond as I was 50 years ago of "Mr.
Wizard's Science Secrets," the younger generation's reaction to it would
certainly be, "Ew, gross." So out it goes, and a Judy Blume title goes in
its space. We'd all like to dictate to library patrons what they should
read, but then you'd get the age-old complaint that "You don't have any good
books in here" and public support (read tax revenue) to sustain the library
would diminish and eventually disappear. Forcing kids or anyone else to
read or not read certain books gets you nowhere. Same comments apply to
non-book media. Balance is the key. Remember that. Balance. No far
right, no far left. Balance.
> However, it is pretty hopeless. The Camels won't be out of the tent
> until they've destroyed it first.
The Camels have always been here. I could refer to my Sainted Maternal
Grandfather as a brave, 14-year-old immigrant who came to this country to
work hard, learn English, and make something of himself, or I could say he
was a backward, draft-dodging Kraut who couldn't stand his Old Man and his
Old Lady any more, quit school and got out of his pissant fiefdom of
Luderbach while he figured the getting was good. Equally valid descriptions
of the same person.
James, a Camel's grandson
> oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Wasn't trying to use any code words in the sense of what a card-
carrying NEA member might take exception to. Not that the NEA isn't a
bunch of freakin' Camels, mind you.
As for grandpa or great-grandpa - no, the Camels have not always been
here. In the nineteenth and for most of the twentieth century, people
came to America to strive and succeed. During the building of this
nation, a large measure of personal and cultural conformity was
expected. If the conformity was not given, well, there weren't any
personal bailouts like today.
I do know that in the instance of my Swedish set of great-
grandparents, both were told by their relatives "You are going to
America to work. You are lucky. Don't ever think about the old
country, because there is nothing for you here". Their son, my
grandpa told himself that every day of his life and told me almost
everytime I ever saw him. When those people saw a Camel's nose under
the edge of the tent, they shot their rifles at the SOB.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I am a life member of the NEA, and you just called me a freakin' Camel,
thank you. But I'm proud to be a know-it-all, bleeding heart, flaming,
pablum-puking, blaspheming, godless secular humanist, evolutionist,
never-met-a-Communist-dictator-I-didn't-like, pro-abortion, tree-hugging,
kid-despising, unionist money-grubbing, Ted Kennedy worshipping, Hillary
fawning, Europe admiring, America hating, gay marriage advocating, SUV
bashing, French-looking, terrorist sympathizing, Constitution flouting, big
bang believing, flag burning, Al Gore loving, global warming fearing,
Obama-voting, pointy-haired, librul pothead and activist environmentalist
wacko. Let's see, Rush is still on for ten more minutes, excuse me while I
tune him in to see if I left anything out.
> As for grandpa or great-grandpa - no, the Camels have not always been
> here. In the nineteenth and for most of the twentieth century, people
> came to America to strive and succeed. During the building of this
> nation, a large measure of personal and cultural conformity was
> expected. If the conformity was not given, well, there weren't any
> personal bailouts like today.
The personal bailouts are the result of several generations of politicians
of *both* (kindly note my emphasis) parties who failed to identify the
problem early on, or if they did identify it, they chose not to do anything
about it when a much simpler and much less disruptive scenario was still
playing out. They have always been more interested in telling us how much
they love Jesus in order to get elected and re-elected than in dealing with
our problems the way He advised. To slightly paraphrase Ben Franklin, house
guests and politicians start to stink after a few days.
> I do know that in the instance of my Swedish set of great-
> grandparents, both were told by their relatives "You are going to
> America to work. You are lucky. Don't ever think about the old
> country, because there is nothing for you here". Their son, my
> grandpa told himself that every day of his life and told me almost
> everytime I ever saw him. When those people saw a Camel's nose under
> the edge of the tent, they shot their rifles at the SOB.
By your own admission, people in that day came to America to escape, just as
my Grandfather did, the same reason that people come to America today. I
sure hope that he didn't shoot any other Camels, I don't wish to have to
admit to being the spawn of a murderer in addition to a draft-dodger.
James
Bob F.
news:h3nsl...@enews5.newsguy.com...
> By your own admission, people in that day came to America to escape,
> just as my Grandfather did, the same reason that people come to
> America today.
Our ancestors who came to America did so to become Americans and adopt
the American way of life.
They worked hard and paid taxes and came here legally.
The puddle jumpers and wetbacks who come here now (mostly illegally,
thus making them common criminals), have no desire to become Americans,
no desire to adapt to the American way of life and are nothing but
freeloading parasites who are bankrupting our country.
I'd like to see a government official with the balls to call for the
ouster of this scum by ANY means necessary.
mazorj
A gay lifestyle is a "culture of death"? That's absurd. However, if you
equate "culture of death" with a lifestyle not built around reproduction of
the species, homosexuality of both genders has been with us from the
beginning and homo sapiens still has managed to breed itself to the point
where unless population growth levels off, a Malthusian catastrophe is
looming on the horizon. Carried to the extreme, a "culture of life" can
become a culture of deaths on a massive scale. "Go ye forth and multiply
like unto the rabbit and the fly" should not be the Prime Directive for an
intelligent species.
Furthermore, there are many individuals who are not gay but for their own
reasons never reproduce. Are they also part of this "culture of death"?
Since homosexuality is genetically determined, do you really want all those
"faggy queers" propagating their DNA in the gene pool? That has been the
inevitable result of enforced sexual conformity over the centuries. (But
not uniformly over the millenia. It's only been since the rise of the
Abrahamic religions that homosexuality has been widely condemned as
"immoral" in Western culture. And it's only been in the past few centuries
that Western society has methodically rooted out and suppressed gays and gay
behavior. In some societies it always was and still is accepted as an
eccentricity and not as immoral.)
As to the supposed disadvantages of diversity versus the supposed advantages
of monoculture, ask any biologist, animal breeder, gardener or farmer which
works better over time and which is more susceptible to catastrophic
collapse. Monocultures can work better in some ways as long as their
environment doesn't change or is artificially propped up. But conditions
change, and in human terms massive changes can occur in as little as a few
days (as with natural disasters) and rarely do the conditions that sustain a
monoculture remain unchanged for more than a few centuries.
BTW, not all monocultures are inherently good, either. Even the ones that
confer useful advantages trade off other benefits to achieve them and carry
their own peculiar disadvantages. Nazi Germany is a notorious example of
the former. Japan exemplifies the latter and in the first half of the 20th
Century it was even in the former category.
< You're gonna go around and around with a troll who believes that there
are absolute moral values under heaven, which can be known and which
have already been expressed millenia ago.
And of course you know them all and anyone who disagrees with you on any of
them is wrong and will burn in hell.
Care to let us in on a few of these cosmic absolutes, oly? You probably
ought to start with the Ten Commandments, which moralists like to remind us
are not labeled the "Ten Suggestions". If these are not absolutes set in
stone - originally they literally were set in stone by God! - then what is?
They're pretty straightforward: Thou shalt not kill. Honor thy father and
thy mother. Thou shalt not lie. Keep holy the Sabbath. Are those
"absolute moral values under heaven"?
mazorj
...
< Camels can be whatever you want them to be. There are so many types
of Camels prancing around today that would have been minding their P's
and Q's forty years ago.
IOW, they got "uppity". Good grief, oly. You're really in touch with your
"inner self" today, aren't you?
BTW, you're a direct descendent of the original Camels.
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Ya think?
I didn't choose the term "homophobia" at random to describy oly's epithets.
>
> James
>
mazorj
"anonymous" <Sco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:368cd3cf-b880-46ed...@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>A convenient collection of Falstaff's views is available at:
>
> http://www.tomswiftlives.com/who_is_the_mysterious_other
Yeah, he was pretty transparent with that nym too.
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h3nl8...@enews5.newsguy.com...
Not fair, indeed. oly would be reduced to the role of a Biblical figure -
John the Baptist, the voice crying alone in the wilderness. He might even
lose his head. Arguably he's already done so, although in the figurative
rather than the literal sense.
>> Old Abe wasn't worried one damn bit about Camels of the form you are
>> thinking of. He was hired to make certain that the Hamiltonian vision
>> of America trumped the Jeffersonian vision of America.
>
> I have great respect for both Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Jefferson, and believe
> the best America will rise from a judicious blend of the two opposing
> philosophies.
Amen - that's what the conferral and separation of powers was all about.
Mr. Jaggers
I find that most people who most loudly oppose homosexuality in males are
much less critical of lesbians, and not at all of young lesbians, especially
if they get to watch. Wonder why that is.
> Furthermore, there are many individuals who are not gay but for their
> own reasons never reproduce. Are they also part of this "culture of
> death"?
> Since homosexuality is genetically determined, do you really want all
> those "faggy queers" propagating their DNA in the gene pool? That
> has been the inevitable result of enforced sexual conformity over the
> centuries. (But not uniformly over the millenia. It's only been
> since the rise of the Abrahamic religions that homosexuality has been
> widely condemned as "immoral" in Western culture. And it's only been
> in the past few centuries that Western society has methodically
> rooted out and suppressed gays and gay behavior. In some societies
> it always was and still is accepted as an eccentricity and not as
> immoral.)
Genetics have been shown as a definite determiner of ultimate sexuality, but
likewise have conditions in the womb been implicated. Not only that, but
science will tell us that no one is 100% one way or the other, but that we
all rest in our own places on a very complex, multi-dimensional continuum.
> As to the supposed disadvantages of diversity versus the supposed
> advantages of monoculture, ask any biologist, animal breeder,
> gardener or farmer which works better over time and which is more
> susceptible to catastrophic collapse. Monocultures can work better
> in some ways as long as their environment doesn't change or is
> artificially propped up. But conditions change, and in human terms
> massive changes can occur in as little as a few days (as with natural
> disasters) and rarely do the conditions that sustain a monoculture
> remain unchanged for more than a few centuries.
The phenomenon of "Indian" corn corroborates this hypothesis quite nicely.
> BTW, not all monocultures are inherently good, either. Even the ones
> that confer useful advantages trade off other benefits to achieve
> them and carry their own peculiar disadvantages. Nazi Germany is a
> notorious example of the former. Japan exemplifies the latter and in
> the first half of the 20th Century it was even in the former category.
>
> < You're gonna go around and around with a troll who believes that
> there are absolute moral values under heaven, which can be known and
> which have already been expressed millenia ago.
>
> And of course you know them all and anyone who disagrees with you on
> any of them is wrong and will burn in hell.
Say, now that you mention it, is is indeed starting to get pretty warm where
I am. I wonder...
> Care to let us in on a few of these cosmic absolutes, oly? You
> probably ought to start with the Ten Commandments, which moralists
> like to remind us are not labeled the "Ten Suggestions". If these
> are not absolutes set in stone - originally they literally were set
> in stone by God! - then what is?
As for me, I'd like a chance, even if only a brief chance, to gaze upon
those original stones. But alas...
> They're pretty straightforward: Thou shalt not kill. Honor thy
> father and thy mother. Thou shalt not lie. Keep holy the Sabbath. Are
> those "absolute moral values under heaven"?
Not only are they not absolute moral values, their vague, imprecise meanings
have been debated for millennia. Usually it's the version of the guys with
the most effective weaponry that prevails.
James
Mr. Jaggers
And just imagine, it was a furriner, Montesquieu, who inspired the Founders
in matters of separation of powers. Oh no, not just a furriner, he was
French furriner, and you know what they say about French furriners!
James