Who Would You Put on a Dollar Coin
Dave Rutan
http://emdffi.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-would-you-put-on-coin.html
[From the blog]
My students are learning about money and coins. The first grade next
door is doing the same. The other teacher and I were looking at some
large, paper coins to use in lessons and the set included a Sacagawea
dollar coin. This teacher sighed a bit and I asked about her reaction.
Basically, she said that she felt a better choice could have been made
for a woman on the coin. Or at least a better image could have been
used than one of her and the baby. She felt it presented a very
specific view of what a woman can be.
I'm not sure I completely agree with her, but it did raise a really
interesting question for me. If you could choose an American woman to
be on a coin who would you choose? How about an African-American to
place on a coin?
I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on this. I'm also interested in why.
How we prioritize individuals in history fascinates me. And, so far, I
haven't been able to decide who I would choose. I'll have to get back
to you on that.
http://emdffi.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-would-you-put-on-coin.html
Mr. Jaggers
Opinions do not lend themselves to rational defense. No matter how I or
anyone else might answer that question, it will bring on a hailstorm of
political invective, which is why I, personally, will take a pass on
answering your question.
James the Non-committal
Jerry Dennis
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shame on you, James. I, for one, will give an opinion. And I'll even
provide a reference.
Dave, if you'd really like to know who I'd put on an American coin, I
direct your attention to A Guide Book of United States Coins by R.S.
Yeoman, 2010 ed., pages 274 through 325. As crap as modern American
coins may be, the commemoratives are like the "golden age" of American
coins; works of art.
Since you restricted your choices to an American woman and/or a black
American, I'm at somewhat of a loss, for there are a number of
American women and black Americans that deserve that kind of
recognition. Dolley Madison and George Washington Carver, for
example, have both been honored on their own commemorative coins
(pages 316 and 295).
Jerry
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Barney Frank might be appropriate.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
> On Jan 21, 3:29?pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
>> Dave Rutan wrote:
>>> [I found this entry on a blot and it piqued my interest.]
>>
>>> http://emdffi.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-would-you-put-on-coin.html
>>
>>> [From the blog]
>>
>>> My students are learning about money and coins. The first grade next
>>> door is doing the same. The other teacher and I were looking at some
>>> large, paper coins to use in lessons and the set included a
>>> Sacagawea dollar coin. This teacher sighed a bit and I asked about
>>> her reaction.
>>
>>> Basically, she said that she felt a better choice could have been
>>> made for a woman on the coin. Or at least a better image could have
>>> been used than one of her and the baby. She felt it presented a very
>>> specific view of what a woman can be.
>>
>>> I'm not sure I completely agree with her, but it did raise a really
>>> interesting question for me. If you could choose an American woman
>>> to be on a coin who would you choose? How about an African-American
>>> to place on a coin?
>>
>>> I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on this. I'm also interested in
>>> why. How we prioritize individuals in history fascinates me. And,
>>> so far, I haven't been able to decide who I would choose. I'll have
>>> to get back to you on that.
>>
>>> http://emdffi.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-would-you-put-on-coin.html
>>
>> I or anyone else might answer that question, it will bring on a
>> hailstorm of political invective, which is why I, personally, will
>> take a pass on answering your question.
>>
>> James the Non-committal- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Shame on you, James. I, for one, will give an opinion. And I'll even
> provide a reference.
>
> Dave, if you'd really like to know who I'd put on an American coin, I
> direct your attention to A Guide Book of United States Coins by R.S.
> Yeoman, 2010 ed., pages 274 through 325. As crap as modern American
> coins may be, the commemoratives are like the "golden age" of American
> coins; works of art.
>
> Since you restricted your choices to an American woman and/or a black
> American, I'm at somewhat of a loss, for there are a number of
> American women and black Americans that deserve that kind of
> recognition. Dolley Madison and George Washington Carver, for
> example, have both been honored on their own commemorative coins
> (pages 316 and 295).
Hmm, when I read this I find an opinion on past designs, but none in answer
to the OP's question. If there are "a number of American women and black
Americans that deserve...recognition," you must have lists of each in mind
and could pick one favorite from each list and help Dave out here. Shame on
me, indeed.
By the way, if you read various books, other than just the la-la titles, on
the "classic" commemoratives, you will find much and intense criticism of
both the designs and the things that were commemorated.
James, both Shamer and Shamee
Petronius
news:43d61822-ca84-415a...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> I'm not sure I completely agree with her, but it did raise a really
> interesting question for me. If you could choose an American woman to
> be on a coin who would you choose? How about an African-American to
> place on a coin?
How about killing 2 birds with 1 stone and putting Aunt Jemima on the dollar?
We can put Uncle Ben on the new $2 coin.
The big international corporations run the country anyway, so it's just a matter
of time before corporate logos appear on our fiat money.
Bruce Remick
"Dave Rutan" <srr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43d61822-ca84-415a...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
I'd vote for Miss or Mrs. Liberty to hopefully avoid an argument about
specific personalities. In reality, it matters not to me who appears on our
coins or who doesn't or hasn't.
mazorj
"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f0956fd9-71ba-4e2e...@k35g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
=======================================
I don't have any favorites, but here are some of the parameters as I see
them:
First, we're talking about circulating coins and not commemoratives, where
different rules apply.
People on circulating U.S. coins have been limited to dead presidents and
extraordinary figures like Ben Franklin. We have no women presidents and no
female Ben Franklins, so for a circulating coin we can either go with a
second-tier historic figure or think outside the coin box.
Possible historic figures include the usual suspects like Betsy Ross and
Barbara Fritchie, plus numerous champions for women's rights and other
causes. I would prefer the latter because Betsy and Barbara are legends,
minor players known for a single act of theirs, as opposed to those who
devoted a significant part of their lives to advancing democracy and other
causes. However, there is the argument that figures like Ross and Fritchie
are emblematic of some aspect of the American spirit, plus the fact that
they are safe choices. OTOH, Ross and Fritchie aren't idolized by any
particular voter blocks. Suffragists, minority figures, et al. do have the
potential to mobilize political support. Also see my first "outside the
box" idea below, which might be the most feasible way to go about this.
Looking at women beyond the traditional, conventional icons known for their
life's work like Susan B. Anthony, we've had Sacajawea and... well, that's
it, right? Sacajawea is in the Ross/Fritchie category, famous just for a
short stint accompanying an exploration safari. She is purely an emblematic
cultural icon and doesn't occupy a major niche in our nation's history.
Which means that she's on a coin more for political reasons. I don't have
any overriding objections to her, but now what? Or who? Sacajawea has
further opened the door for second-tier women candidates, which could be a
good thing. Or not, if it leads to one of those choices that leaves
everyone scratching their heads in bewilderment (just as Sacajawea did for
many).
Thinking a bit outside the box, one option is that rather than try to pick
one woman among the many second-tier possibilities - which would lead to
endless wrangling over who gets honored - they could run a series of
circulating coins with, say, 4 to 8 individuals including some black women.
With a bandwagon this big, I can see the potential for building enormous
political support. Remember, for better or for worse, you heard it first
here.
Venturing even farther outside the box, they could issue one coin with, say,
a trio of women figures. For example, one for advocating women's voting
rights, one for work in health care or another profession, and one for
(Katie bar the door here!) advocating feminism in general. Depicting and
identifying three individuals would likely produce a god-awful design, but
that's never been a barrier for introducing new coins.
IMO these factors set most of the limits for putting a woman on a
circulating coin of any denomination.
Obama conceivably could get a coin somewhere way down the road but until
then, most of these same observations pretty much apply to black honorees.
The major difference is that there is Martin Luther King, who already has
been elevated to major "inner circle" status with a national holiday. Given
that the lesser figures of SBA and Sacajawea have broken the barrier for
women on circulating coins, putting MLK on a coin might be the next logical
target in terms of political imperatives. In fact, I'm mildly surprised
that we don't already have a circulating MLK coin.
Footnotes: Postage stamps have been the traditional medium for honoring all
sorts of worthy individuals from all walks of life(plus some of questionable
status). To a lesser extent the Mint's medal program does the same thing
but that doesn't count. The Mint's commemoratives program is more
accessible for honoring women and blacks but again, that's outside the scope
of the original proposition here for a circulating coin.
mazorj
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:70884170-d0af-406e...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 21, 4:51 pm, Jerry Dennis <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote:
...
> Since you restricted your choices to an American woman and/or a black
> American, I'm at somewhat of a loss, for there are a number of
> American women and black Americans that deserve that kind of
> recognition. Dolley Madison and George Washington Carver, for
> example, have both been honored on their own commemorative coins
> (pages 316 and 295).
>
> Jerry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
<
< Barney Frank might be appropriate.
<
< oly
Hoo, boy. That would invite japes paralleling the old saw about the
characteristics of a 3-dollar bill.
(Which probably originated purely as a reference to the oddity of the
denomination; but language moves on and gives new meanings to words.
Previous meanings of the word "nice" have included foolish, stupid, wanton,
loose-mannered, extravagant, strange, slothful, effeminate, over-refined,
coy, shy, trivial, and fussy. Using "nice" as a pointed criticism rather
than as a compliment would sound queer to the modern ear. )
Paul Anderson
design, make it look great and contemporary, and put it on the dollar
coin. Make it look like a classic and worthy of our US dollar and maybe
it will circulate more. (Or not, since the main barrier to its
circulation is the continued production of the dollar bill, not the
coin's design.)
Paul
mazorj
"Paul Anderson" <paulra...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:paulranderson-03B...@news.charter.net...
Okay, a lot of us might like that; but the OP was asking about real people,
not fictitious icons.
Petronius
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hjctv3$ci5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
How about Eleanor Roosevelt for the dollar?
A perfect compliment to FDR on the dime.
mazorj
"Petronius" <P...@ron.ius> wrote in message
news:hjcv1g$jjm$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Was that a sly dig at inflation?
I would agree on her, though. Good choice if they're going to do one, but
there may be too much flak about too many Democratic Roosevelts considering
that Teddy hasn't gotten one yet.
Petronius
Teddy will get a commem - it's just a matter of time...
Tom Wayne
There's been recent talk of putting Teddy Roosevelt on the "America
the Beautiful" quarters:
http://www.nj.com/homegarden/design/index.ssf/2010/01/debate_rages_in_coin_world_the.html
Jerry Dennis
>
> - Show quoted text -
Okay, you got me. After rereading my previous response, I sound like
a politician; lots of BS with no substance. For a woman, I'd thought
about someone like Martha Washington, Molley Pitcher, Betsy Ross, or
Eleanor Roosevelt, but though worth of admiration, they really aren't
important enough to warrant a circulating coin. Sadly, the only
existing choice, Susan B. Anthony, was the worst. Until her dollar
was released I'd never heard of her. Apparently she wasn't even
important enough for high school history class. Since Dolley already
has a commem, I thought she to be a logical choice.
As for a worthy black American, I must admit ignorance. Booker T.
Washinton and George Washington Carver also have a commemorative, so I
would have no objection to their having a circulating coin.
Come to think of it, some of the dead Presidents don't really deserve
a circulating coin, either. George and Abe? Definitely. Tom? Most
likely. Franklin, John and Dwight/Prexibux in general? NAH!
Okay, hopefully I've redeemed myself and answered Dave's question. I
shall now dress in sackcloth and ashes and repent my misguided ways.
Jerry
Shame on me.
Mr. Jaggers
>>> even provide a reference.
>>
>>> Dave, if you'd really like to know who I'd put on an American coin,
>>> I direct your attention to A Guide Book of United States Coins by
>>> American coins may be, the commemoratives are like the "golden age"
>>> of American coins; works of art.
>>
>>> Since you restricted your choices to an American woman and/or a
>>> black American, I'm at somewhat of a loss, for there are a number of
>>> American women and black Americans that deserve that kind of
>>> example, have both been honored on their own commemorative coins
>>> (pages 316 and 295).
>>
>> Hmm, when I read this I find an opinion on past designs, but none in
>> women and black Americans that deserve...recognition," you must have
>> lists of each in mind and could pick one favorite from each list and
>>
>> By the way, if you read various books, other than just the la-la
>> titles, on the "classic" commemoratives, you will find much and
>> intense criticism of both the designs and the things that were
>> commemorated.
>>
>> James, both Shamer and Shamee- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Okay, you got me. After rereading my previous response, I sound like
> a politician; lots of BS with no substance. For a woman, I'd thought
> about someone like Martha Washington, Molley Pitcher, Betsy Ross, or
> Eleanor Roosevelt, but though worth of admiration, they really aren't
> important enough to warrant a circulating coin. Sadly, the only
> existing choice, Susan B. Anthony, was the worst. Until her dollar
> was released I'd never heard of her. Apparently she wasn't even
> important enough for high school history class. Since Dolley already
> has a commem, I thought she to be a logical choice.
>
> As for a worthy black American, I must admit ignorance. Booker T.
> Washinton and George Washington Carver also have a commemorative, so I
> would have no objection to their having a circulating coin.
>
> Come to think of it, some of the dead Presidents don't really deserve
> a circulating coin, either. George and Abe? Definitely. Tom? Most
> likely. Franklin, John and Dwight/Prexibux in general? NAH!
>
> Okay, hopefully I've redeemed myself and answered Dave's question. I
> shall now dress in sackcloth and ashes and repent my misguided ways.
Add sharp pebbles in thy sandals, make a pilgrimage on foot from wherever
thou liveth to the Denver Mint (all the stairs included), and scourge
thyself thoroughly at every state line crossing, and thou shalt be
redeemeth, my good son. Wait, I forgot, you also need to make a generous
contribution to the chronically-depleted Jaggers Coin Fund.
My goodness, you never studied SBA in high school? Or were you just not
paying attention that day? We certainly learned about her here in North
Lugburz, but then, that was way back in the nineteen mumbly-two-three school
year. There wasn't so much history to learn then, so we had the luxury of
focusing on detail more! In fact, in those days, Columbus had not yet
fallen into disrepute.
Seriously, I wonder how much curb appeal BTW and GWC would have today. I
would submit that the likes of Rosa Parks might symbolize the cause more
than they, and she, having recently passed, would be fresh on peoples'
minds. Not only that, but she satisfies two categories at once.
James the Peacemaker
'let the wild rumpus start!'
Peter
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have some mixed feelings about this. The idea that we would only
put presidents on dollar coins seems rather limiting. That the
current issue of coins look so inferior suggests that it is no longer
much of an honor (in that spirit, I have to ask why not pick Alan
Greenspan). If it is to be an honor and need not be a president, how
about Marian Anderson or Leontyne Price?
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:hjk9j...@enews6.newsguy.com...
We might have studied from the same textbooks but I don't recall
learning anything about SBA that would have kept her in mind ten years
later. Sure, the name would probably ring a bell, but featuring her on a
coin would be laughable.
>
> Seriously, I wonder how much curb appeal BTW and GWC would have today. I
> would submit that the likes of Rosa Parks might symbolize the cause more
> than they, and she, having recently passed, would be fresh on peoples'
> minds. Not only that, but she satisfies two categories at once.
I agree that BTW and GWC would have limited mainstream appeal or name
recognition today. Even MLK becomes relevant only on his holiday to many
young people. But if we were to suggest Angelina Jolie or Madonna as
international humanitarians constantly searching to adopt as many of the
world's unfortunate as possible, there likely would be a lot more nodding
heads and proposed design sketches.
Mr. Jaggers
Very worthy candidates, but virtually unknown outside the circle of musical
cognoscenti.
I think part of the reason our modern designs look so mediocre is the very
low relief, compared to that of all those classic designs that have been
mentioned in this thread. And it doesn't help that they are rendered on
clad and plated planchets.
James ze Artiste
Mr. Jaggers
Those last two would never make it past the morality police.
James of Prurient Interest
Jud
If it is to be an honor and need not be a president, how
> about Marian Anderson or Leontyne Price?
If we are honoring a black woman, Harriet Tubman came to my mind
first.
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:hjkjq...@enews1.newsguy.com...
> Peter wrote:
...
>> If it is to be an honor and need not be a president, how
>> about Marian Anderson or Leontyne Price?
>
> Very worthy candidates, but virtually unknown outside the circle of
> musical cognoscenti.
You'd have somewhat better luck selling Kate Smith, belter-outer of
"God Bless America".
So is the term "cognoscenti" virtually unknown outside the circle of
the linguistic congoscent?.
> I think part of the reason our modern designs look so mediocre is
> the very low relief, compared to that of all those classic designs
> that have been mentioned in this thread. And it doesn't help that
> they are rendered on clad and plated planchets.
>
> James ze Artiste
If doing so weren't an absolute no-no for handling coins, I'd say
you've put your finger on it.
The combination of digital graphic design and the bean-counter
mentality of maximizing the strike life of dies by sticking to flat,
low-relief images has squeezed almost every last drop out of the
esthetic appeal of recent U.S. coin designs. The JFK half and FDR
dime have held to the old standards (although IMO they could have done
a better job on FDR's visage), as have the obverses of cents and
nickels. The rest have been either cartoonish or, in the case of the
new Washington bust, creepily overdone.
We aren't the only or even the first nation where coin design has been
ruled by utilitarian considerations. I have a few foreign coins from
the 1960s - 1980s that look and feel more like tokens than a national
showpiece. They don't exactly give me a warm fuzzy about that
nation's monetary system, even when I know that it's basically sound.
Peter
>
> You'd have somewhat better luck selling Kate Smith, belter-outer of
> "God Bless America".
>
I would also vote for Kate Smith.
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Plus, there would be that low-relief requirement for designers to overcome,
unless we resurrect the bust half. On the other hand, the morality police
hasn't been too successful keeping those two ladies out of the public arena
for the past couple decades, so I don't see them as players.
Maybe there could be several designs for each coin denomination produced for
exclusive use by various elements of our society-- say, the young, the
elderly, the purient, and the numismatist. What an album!
Tom Wayne
Maybe an image of either Jolie or Madonna, looking over her shoulder,
with one of her adoptees on her back.
mazorj
"Tom Wayne" <twn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9asl5drmu25ik60q...@4ax.com...
>
>>"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>>news:hjk9j...@enews6.newsguy.com...
...
>> I agree that BTW and GWC would have limited mainstream appeal or name
>>recognition today. Even MLK becomes relevant only on his holiday to many
>>young people. But if we were to suggest Angelina Jolie or Madonna as
>>international humanitarians constantly searching to adopt as many of the
>>world's unfortunate as possible, there likely would be a lot more nodding
>>heads and proposed design sketches.
>>
> Maybe an image of either Jolie or Madonna, looking over her shoulder,
> with one of her adoptees on her back.
Heh, heh.
Or, continuing with the design precedents, dressed as Lady Liberty with one
bare breast showing. Due to a wardrobe malfunction, of course.
MJKolodziej
"Dave Rutan" <srr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43d61822-ca84-415a...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> http://emdffi.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-would-you-put-on-coin.html
>
> [From the blog]
>
> My students are learning about money and coins. The first grade next
> door is doing the same. The other teacher and I were looking at some
> large, paper coins to use in lessons and the set included a Sacagawea
> dollar coin. This teacher sighed a bit and I asked about her reaction.
>
> Basically, she said that she felt a better choice could have been made
> for a woman on the coin. Or at least a better image could have been
> used than one of her and the baby. She felt it presented a very
> specific view of what a woman can be.
>
> I'm not sure I completely agree with her, but it did raise a really
> interesting question for me. If you could choose an American woman to
> be on a coin who would you choose? How about an African-American to
> place on a coin?
>
> I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on this. I'm also interested in why.
> How we prioritize individuals in history fascinates me. And, so far, I
> haven't been able to decide who I would choose. I'll have to get back
> to you on that.
>
> http://emdffi.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-would-you-put-on-coin.html
Contemplating who represents America today I'd have to say......Martha
Stewart.
mk
(How would she be depicted?)
Jud
>
> Contemplating who represents America today I'd have to say......Martha
> Stewart.
> mk
> (How would she be depicted?)
The way she is best remembered...behind bars.