See why the MSM should be questioned?
oly
questioned in all time and all places.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/24/duke.ellington.coin/index.html
Whenever they write or produce a story about something that one really
knows about, one finds that the story is always full of errors and/or
distortions.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Provided that your observation is not just another iteration of the tiresome
rightwing bellyache about "liberal" media and leftwing revisionist history,
I would agree. It seems that as the necessity to fill up time and column
inches expands, the overall quality deteriorates.
James
RWF
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:go0n1...@enews5.newsguy.com...
I question the selection of Duke Ellington anyway.
Yes, he was a great musician and composer but he was also a racist who
refused to hire white musicians for his band until the early 1950s when
he hired Louie Belson as a drummer. Louie was married to Pearl Bailey at
the time.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Whenever one is in the District (I spent three weeks there last
March), one is struck by the reverse racism. I have two cousins
living there for over a decade now, and they can regale you with
stories of the delusional diversities of the District.
The fact that they had to place Ellington's name on the coin suggests
how little he is known to the general public today. Of course, coins
can be used to educate, but the question is what subjects will be
chosen.
oly
Bruce Remick
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d7048aa0-ee7e-4c8e...@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
_______________
There were few other options other than the tired old national monuments.
As soon as Marion Barry dies, I'm sure they'll want to submit a do-over for
their quarter. I've lived in the DC suburbs for over 40 years and had
worked in the city for the first 25. I would have a hard time coming up
with anything better than Ellington, although I never would have thought of
him in the first place. Red Auerbach, maybe, and you wouldn't even need his
name on the coin-- just that mug and the victory cigar.
Mr. Jaggers
The Duke's music is delightful both to listen to and to play, but most music
lovers of today know him only by ear, not by eyesight, whence the necessity
of an ID on the coin. That would be true of most any pre-rock composer,
bandleader, or musician. Almost everyone recognizes The Stars and Stripes
Forever when they hear it, but I doubt that one in twenty-five would even
recognize John Philip Sousa, arguably the premier American musical patriot.
James the Saxophonist
RWF
>one is struck by the reverse racism. I have two cousins living there
>for over a decade now, and they can regale you with stories of the
>delusional diversities of the District.
So-called "reverse racism" is rampant throughout the nation.
Witness the calls for "diversity" in our colleges and universities yet
no one is calling for diversity in the so-called "black" colleges like
Grambling, etc.
And how about pro basketball teams which are predominately black,
where's the outcry for the poor oppressed white players?
The black population of the USA seems to want it both ways.
But what can you expect when they have "leaders" like Al Sharpton and
Jesse "Hymie Town" Jackson?
Frank
I see no errors other than failing to mention "first African American
on a CIRCULATING coin", as
Jackie Robinson, Booker T. Washington, and George Carver have been so
honored on commemoratives.
Residents of the District have no vote on important issues such as
health care, education, Social Security,
environmental protection, crime control, public safety, foreign
policy, or their children and spouses
being sent to war.
--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES www.frankcoins.com
http://myworld.ebay.com/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991
Mr. Jaggers
> On Feb 24, 5:13 am, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
>> This is an example of why the MSM (main stream media) should be
>> questioned in all time and all places.
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/24/duke.ellington.coin/index.html
>>
>> Whenever they write or produce a story about something that one
>> really knows about, one finds that the story is always full of
>> errors and/or distortions.
>>
>> oly
>
> I see no errors other than failing to mention "first African American
> on a CIRCULATING coin", as
> Jackie Robinson, Booker T. Washington, and George Carver have been so
> honored on commemoratives.
Either the writer was entirely ignorant of that fact, or knew that including
that fact would negate the entire purpose of the article in the first place.
> Residents of the District have no vote on important issues such as
> health care, education, Social Security,
> environmental protection, crime control, public safety, foreign
> policy, or their children and spouses
> being sent to war.
All true, but hardly germane to the issue.
James
Frank
> I question the selection of Duke Ellington anyway.
The residents of DC voted on it. Unless you have moved, you still
live in Nassau County, NY.
> Yes, he was a great musician and composer but he was also a racist who
> refused to hire white musicians for his band until the early 1950s
Perhaps a practical matter that since before 1955 blacks and whites
were kept separate
on trains, and generally could not stay at the same hotels,
http://books.google.com/books?id=kuiFWCbGLqYC&pg=PA170
Mr. Jaggers
> On Feb 24, 6:43 am, "RWF" <R...@200902.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I question the selection of Duke Ellington anyway.
>
> The residents of DC voted on it. Unless you have moved, you still
> live in Nassau County, NY.
>
>> Yes, he was a great musician and composer but he was also a racist
>> who refused to hire white musicians for his band until the early
>> 1950s
>
> Perhaps a practical matter that since before 1955 blacks and whites
> were kept separate
> on trains, and generally could not stay at the same hotels,
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=kuiFWCbGLqYC&pg=PA170
No kidding. Jim Crow America was not a pretty place.
James
Johnny Doe
<lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
>The Duke's music is delightful both to listen to and to play, but most music
>lovers of today know him only by ear, not by eyesight, whence the necessity
>of an ID on the coin. That would be true of most any pre-rock composer,
>bandleader, or musician. Almost everyone recognizes The Stars and Stripes
>Forever when they hear it, but I doubt that one in twenty-five would even
>recognize John Philip Sousa, arguably the premier American musical patriot.
>
>James the Saxophonist
>
Now I know you are pulling my leg. I would be AMAZED if one out of
10,000 people could recognize Sousa by his picture, and then only if
one out of 10,000 is a high-school band director!
Mr. Jaggers
Good point. After I hit "send" I wished I had added the word "thousand."
Sometimes I forget that not everyone has had the musical experience that I
have.
James the Kazooist
RWF
"Frank" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:4d724ae3-1992-42b6...@r4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> Yes, he was a great musician and composer but he was also a racist
>> who
>> refused to hire white musicians for his band until the early 1950s
>Perhaps a practical matter that since before 1955 blacks and whites
>were kept separate on trains, and generally could not stay at the same
>hotels,
Fwankie, you ignorant moron, many big bands were integrated long before
the Duke integrated his.
Two of the most popular bands of the 30s (Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw)
had black artists performing with them.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good irrational rant, Fwankie,
you putz.
RWF
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:go0vj...@enews5.newsguy.com...
Fwankie never lets facts or relevance stand in the way of one of his
irrational rants.
I'm surprised he's not blaming eBay!
Bruce Remick
"Johnny Doe" <n...@home.net> wrote in message
news:aa28q49nq3apqlv15...@4ax.com...
And you could add some zeroes if that picture were rendered on a state
quarter.
Frank
When Wardell Gray, a black, was in Goodman's band, he had to stay at a
"colored" hotel
in Vegas while the band performed at the Flamingo, and even then, Gray
had to enter the
Flamingo through the kitchen entrance, because seeing a "negro" enter
through the front
door would upset the patrons. And this was about 1950!
Nevertheless, you are the irrational one claiming Ellington was a
racist.
RWF
>Nevertheless, you are the irrational one claiming Ellington was a
>racist.
He hired people based on the color of their skin, not their ability. How
is he NOT racist, Fwankie?
There now, be a good fellow and go polish up your tinfoil hat, put it on
and sit quietly in the corner where you belong.
PC
> This is an example of why the MSM (main stream media) should be
> questioned in all time and all places.
I agree. The conservative bias in the media is quite evident.
PC
"RWF" <R...@200902.invalid> wrote in message
news:go0q28$vjm$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
>
> I question the selection of Duke Ellington anyway.
You question which sock is the left sock and which is the right sock.
PC
Whenever one is in the District (I spent three weeks there last
March), one is struck by the reverse racism.
>>>
Which does not excuse yours.
Bruce Remick
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:go1ukp$3n9$1...@news.motzarella.org...
The basic problem is that there are far more media than news.
philathome
> "PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
>
> news:go1ukp$3n9$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
>
>
> >news:07b5607c-feef-4da4...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> >> This is an example of why the MSM (main stream media) should be
> >> questioned in all time and all places.
>
> > I agree. The conservative bias in the media is quite evident.
>
> The basic problem is that there are far more media than news.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/24/indiana-study-media-bias/
RWF
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:uC0pl.29039$pX4....@newsfe08.iad...
So would you say a well done medium is rare?
Bruce Remick
"RWF" <R...@200902.invalid> wrote in message
Sarah P. might say there are too many media out looking for a well done.
mazorj
What were the specific factual errors, i.e., statements of
fact that are demonstrably wrong?
What were the "distortions"?
What level of either or both of these must a story have to
be "full of" them?
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
At this point, the original story has been corrected to specify
"circulating coin".
The original article stated that Duke Ellington was the first African-
American to appear on a U.S. coin. Period.
In fact he was somewhere between the fifth and eighth African-American
to appear on a U.S. coin. The exact number depends on whether you
count unnamed persons on the "Black Patriots" and "Jamestown" dollars.
Whenever a person reads an MSM article that he has specialized
knowledge in, chances are very very high that that person will find
factual errors and that those errors are part and parcel of the main
idea of viewpoint (or dogma) being conveyed to the reader.
If that is the case in the MSM articles where you have specialized
knowledge, what about all the articles where you don't??? Do you
suppose that those articles are free of factual errors, facts that are
being used to support the contention/dogma being espoused?
Sorry, my thesaurus has gone missing and I'm not getting the exact
word that I want for viewpoint.contention/dogma.
oly
mazorj
"RWF" <R...@200902.invalid> wrote in message
Given that RF blames black prejudice on Sharpton et al.,
that response rated a solid 7 on the Irony-O-Meter.
mazorj
"RWF" <R...@200902.invalid> wrote in message
That's like saying that George Wallace and Strom Thurmond
caused white prejudice. It works the other way around.
Both whites and blacks harbor racial prejudice. Duh.
What's the big deal? Why was it even worth mentioning here?
mazorj
If by "more media" you include the need to feed the 24/7
news beast that the Internet has created, then you've put
your finger on one of the primary reasons for the decline in
the quality of journalism.
note.boy
"mazorj" <maz...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:tocpl.1518$Ez6...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
An enormous quantity but very little quality, I have given up watching the
news on TV in the UK as it has been very much dumbed down, I also don't like
the throbbing background music that seems essential when the news are being
read, as news is plural is are correct or not?
Many camera men have contracted Parkinson's Disease as few are now capable
of holding their camera steady, have streadycam gone out of business? Billy
Jud
a number of newsworthy events, and have found that what actually
happened and what was reported are often 2 different things. Although
I enjoy reading opinions, they belong in the editorial pages, not the
front page. Words taken out of context, or fabricated words find their
way into the news. Sensationalism of otherwise backpage events finds
its way to the forefront. "If it bleeds, it leads".
• Tom Brokaw, NBC news reporting on the side impact of Chevy trucks
showing how the gas tank explodes. After numerous attempts to get one
to explode, NBC put detonators in the truck. No mention of fabricated
news, until it came out later.
• Barbara Walters on the 20/20 news program interview with 'Buckwheat'
from "The Little Rascals" shows. Turns out that the interviewee only
claimed to be Buckwheat, who had died over 20 years earlier.
• Peter Arnett reporting from Kuwait City while under Scud attack from
Iraq stated that they were "Chemical Weapons". Pure conjecture, and
opinion.
• Numerous New York Times articles that were later proven to be pure
fiction.
• Oprah Winfrey plugging a book that was pure fiction as well.
These are just a few of the national/worldwide examples of
journalistic incompetence. There are many others that I know about on
a local basis. Whatever happened to journalistic integrity where ONLY
facts were reported? Who, what, when, where and why. And the 'why'
distinctly identified as the reporter's opinion.
Believe only 1/2 of what you hear, and the remaining half to be taken
with a grain of salt, because of reporters slant or incompetence in
reporting the entire story.
End of rant. We now return you to your regularly scheduled coin
related discussions, already in progress.
mazorj
"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Pycpl.17252$FN7....@newsfe04.ams2...
Television news actually started the decline in the 1970s.
Consultants perpetrated a tidal wave of make-overs at local
stations. That's when you started to see practices such as
"if it bleeds, it leads," gimmicks like "dramatic" music and
inane graphics, silly featurette stories like the iconic
segment on water-skiing squirrels, the incorporation of PR
video into supposedly "straight reporting," and "happy
chatter" between co-anchors. Serious, solid journalism took
third place behind ratings and a never-ending demand for
even higher profitability.
Unfortunately, the consultants proved to be right about what
attracts viewer eyeballs. A few years ago one station -
IIRC, in Detroit - tried to buck the trend by going back to
a serious news/journalism format. Their noble experiment
tanked after a few months. As with governments, we get the
news shows that we deserve.
But it sounds like you are bursting one long-held, cherished
delusion. Has the Beeb's TV reporting sunk to that level
too?
mazorj
On Feb 25, 6:04 am, "mazorj" <maz...@erols.com> wrote:
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:07b5607c-feef-4da4...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This is an example of why the MSM (main stream media)
> > should be
> > questioned in all time and all places.
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/24/duke.ellington.coin/index.html
>
> > Whenever they write or produce a story about something
> > that one really
> > knows about, one finds that the story is always full of
> > errors and/or distortions.
>
> What were the specific factual errors, i.e., statements of
> fact that are demonstrably wrong?
>
> What were the "distortions"?
>
> What level of either or both of these must a story have to
> be "full of" them?
< At this point, the original story has been corrected to
specify
"circulating coin".
<
< The original article stated that Duke Ellington was the
first African-
American to appear on a U.S. coin. Period.
Check. I only saw the revised version.
...
< Whenever a person reads an MSM article that he has
specialized
knowledge in, chances are very very high that that person
will find
factual errors and that those errors are part and parcel of
the main
idea of viewpoint (or dogma) being conveyed to the reader.
<
< If that is the case in the MSM articles where you have
specialized
knowledge, what about all the articles where you don't???
Do you
suppose that those articles are free of factual errors,
facts that are
being used to support the contention/dogma being espoused?
Having worked both sides of that street, I know for a fact
that:
1. Even the most diligent reporters make mistakes.
Sometimes they've been fed erroneous information, sometimes
they think they know a fact when it's wrong, sometimes an
editor makes an erroneous change that the reporter would
have protested given the opportunity (which they seldom
get), and sometimes careless writing under deadline causes a
reporter to phrase things in a way that makes it sound like
he got it wrong when in his head he actually has it right,
2. While occasionally an entire story will be a fabrication
or based on a manipulation of events, usually the factual
errors are inadvertent and relatively harmless. Sometimes
they can be catastrophic, sometimes they are middling bad,
but in most cases they do not negate the entire story.
3. There always are plenty of readers/viewers who detect and
call attention to overt factual errors.
4. Some critics erroneously take these as "proof" that the
media is totally unreliable, not worth a plugged Chinese
counterfeit nickel. You cannot judge a story or an entire
industry on such a limited basis. You also have to see the
bigger picture: The wisdom of the First Amendment and the
"marketplace of ideas" that it creates. While one story may
get it wrong, someone else's will get it right.
5. Last and most certainly not least, there are far more
serious ways to mislead a reader and engage in biased
reporting than making a minor factual error or two.
So the true test of journalistic quality and integrity is
not whether errors occur - they always will - but in how the
news outlet handles it when an error is brought to their
attention. In this case CNN did the right thing in
correcting the story. The only criticism I have is that
they failed to note that an earlier version of the story
incorrectly stated that this was the first depiction of an
African-American on a U.S. coin. That should have been
stated somewhere before or after the story. Newswire
services follow this practice but it's distressingly rare in
website reporting.
Having said all that... I totally agree with your
observation that "if they got this one wrong that I know
about, what about the stories where I don't have such
personal knowledge?" We've all had the same experience. I
suppose I take two things for granted. First, that errors
will happen (inadvertently or not) so we always should
approach all news reporting with cautious reserve. Second,
most errors are not attributable to any "agenda" or systemic
bias, they're just proof that in news as with any human
activity, "doo-doo happens".
< Sorry, my thesaurus has gone missing and I'm not getting
the exact
word that I want for viewpoint.contention/dogma.
As I hope I've made clear, it's usually not attributable to
any of these, it's just doo-doo happening. Otherwise, you'd
be contending that CNN had some kind of agenda or bias that
made them commit the factual error of ignoring commemorative
issues. Not only is that ridiculous on the face of it, the
fact that they corrected the error pretty much puts paid to
that proposition.
Mr. Jaggers
As time goes on, a smaller and smaller component of the news is concerned
with informing the public, and a larger and larger component of the news is
Show Biz. Even Dan Rather was willing to fess up to that in an interview I
watched several months ago. His contention was that in the "good old days"
the news was presented at a loss to the station/network owner as a public
service, whereas now it has to support itself. "Keep the folks wondering so
that they stick around to watch the commercials," said he. That's why two
very annoying features are now ubiquitous: 1) The repeated use of
"teasers" such as "and later in the broadcast we'll tell you about a sex
change operation that went terribly wrong", which are often repeated two or
three times in advance of a story that never quite measures up to
expectation; and 2) The statement of headlines in the form of questions,
such as "Are the big oil corporations guilty of price gouging?", which, of
course, will not be answered by the story that is presented.
James
Mr. Jaggers
Two more things that irritate me no end: 1) "Man in the street" sound and
video bites. Why is some guy in South Lugburz allowed to give his (usually)
badly-thought-out response to an interview question on camera, as if to say
that his opinion counts for anything? This is how we got Joe the Plumber.
2) People who are being interviewed no longer face the camera, but are
given a three-quarters shot that makes them look as if their interlocutor is
behind me and to one side. I keep wondering what that person is doing back
there.
End of rant - maybe - but don't count on it.
James
Bruce Remick
That was what I was driving at. Too many "journalists" trying to put a
unique spin on the same few topical stories in hope of impressing the boss.
And doing so quickly enough to one-up the competition.
Bruce Remick
One of my favorite "news peeves" that is often repeated by many
organizations was visible again last night. A network that was reporting on
the implications of the impending North Korean missile launch showed
background footage of rows of 1950-60's era Soviet air defense missiles
being paraded through the streets. Impressive to the average viewer, but
totally unrelated to the story. I would guess that few if any network
people had a clue as to what they were showing.
mazorj
"Jud" <numis...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5c28bcb8-91af-494b...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
< This is very much a 'hot-button' topic for me. I have been
witness to
a number of newsworthy events, and have found that what
actually
happened and what was reported are often 2 different things.
Although
I enjoy reading opinions, they belong in the editorial
pages, not the
front page. Words taken out of context, or fabricated words
find their
way into the news. Sensationalism of otherwise backpage
events finds
its way to the forefront. "If it bleeds, it leads".
• Tom Brokaw, NBC news reporting on the side impact of Chevy
trucks
showing how the gas tank explodes. After numerous attempts
to get one
to explode, NBC put detonators in the truck. No mention of
fabricated
news, until it came out later.
That most definitely crossed the line. Most journalists'
reaction was "What the hell were they thinking?"
• Barbara Walters on the 20/20 news program interview with
'Buckwheat'
from "The Little Rascals" shows. Turns out that the
interviewee only
claimed to be Buckwheat, who had died over 20 years earlier.
I missed that one, but obviously they got sold a bill of
goods. However, since they apparently didn't do their due
diligence in researching the subject, they don't get a pass
on that one, either.
• Peter Arnett reporting from Kuwait City while under Scud
attack from
Iraq stated that they were "Chemical Weapons". Pure
conjecture, and opinion.
Did he or anyone in an authoritative position admit that
Arnette had no basis for the characterization and that he
just pulled it out of, um, thin air? While no evidence of
CBW scuds was found, it was well known that such weapons
existed in Iraq.
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Pentagon/dodscud.htm
So the Israelis already feared the possibility of chemical
attacks and probably assumed that that's what was happening.
My guess is that Arnette or someone in his bureau would have
heard from one or more local sources that the missiles
contained chemicals and he just went with it. It was not an
unreasonable assumption. An error, but understandable under
the circumstances. If the first casualty of war is the
truth, the second is the ability to gather and verify facts
when you are reporting in real time and literally "under the
gun".
• Numerous New York Times articles that were later proven to
be pure fiction.
Along with a Washington Post story that won a Pullitzer
Prize and any number of similar examples. Yes, reporters
are like anyone else. Some are lazy or desperate or
arrogant enough to think that they can do this and not get
caught. There is absolutely no excuse for these examples,
although it should be noted that in these instances, the
reporter went through great lengths to conceal the deception
from inquiring editors. It's not as though they leave that
door wide open.
• Oprah Winfrey plugging a book that was pure fiction as
well.
Only because the author already had sold everybody a
complete bill of goods. There was no way for her to know
that in advance. I'm not a big Oprah fan, but she gets a
pass on this one.
> These are just a few of the national/worldwide examples of
> journalistic incompetence.
Some of them are, and most of those are worse than simple
incompetence.
> There are many others that I know about on a local basis.
> Whatever happened to journalistic integrity where ONLY
facts were reported?
Those ideals always were honored in the breach as well as in
the practice. We just are more aware of it now because of
the Internet. And as I've previously noted, the combination
of cuts in news staff plus the incessant demand for higher
profits through higher ratings and circulation (which in the
news room translates into more sensationalistic reporting)
has seriously undercut the media's ability to uphold
standards and to police itself.
< Who, what, when, where and why. And the 'why' distinctly
identified as the reporter's opinion.
No, ideally the "why" should be an attributed quote from an
authoritative source or derived from other attributed
information, not an expression of the reporter's opinion.
Sometimes the why never even gets mentioned.
> Believe only 1/2 of what you hear, and the remaining half
> to be taken
with a grain of salt, because of reporters slant or
incompetence in
reporting the entire story.
See my reply to oly for a more extended response. I
basically agree although I wouldn't automatically discount
half of the news I see or hear. More like ten percent. ;-)
As with any human endeavor, if you expect perfection or
anything close to it, you're going to be disappointed. So
it would be unfair to tar the entire news industry either
for its endemic minor factual errors, or for the rare
willful, abhorrent acts of a small handful of rogue
reporters.
< End of rant. We now return you to your regularly scheduled
coin related discussions, already in progress.
As with you, this is a "hot-button topic" for me. Oh,
alright. So how about those new Lincoln cents? Anybody
like them?
Mr. Jaggers
Only if I can obtain a complete set in MS70 CAC. 8>)
James
PC
> "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:uC0pl.29039$pX4....@newsfe08.iad...
>
>
>
> > "PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
> >news:go1ukp$3n9$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
> >>news:07b5607c-feef-4da4...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> >>> This is an example of why the MSM (main stream media)
> >>> should be
> >>> questioned in all time and all places.
>
> >> I agree. The conservative bias in the media is quite
> >> evident.
>
> > The basic problem is that there are far more media than
> > news.
>
> If by "more media" you include the need to feed the 24/7
> news beast that the Internet has created, then you've put
> your finger on one of the primary reasons for the decline in
> the quality of journalism.
Mainly - fewer people pay for news.
note.boy
There is no TV news channel in the UK that's watchable unless your IQ
matches your shoe size. Billy
mazorj
Damn. The rot has spread everywhere now.
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
What, they're not on eBay yet?
note.boy
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:M4lpl.1620$Ez6...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Newsnight on BBC2 around 10.30 pm is not too bad but it tends to go too far
in the other direction, all heavy stuff. Billy
mazorj
"PC" <Super...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c435171c-3d62-4bed...@w35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
That, too, but problems on the revenue side go even deeper. Craig's
List has cratered most newspapers' classified ads sections. Cable TV
is diverting more local merchants' ad budgets away from big print
display ads. With rare exceptions, ad revenues from their website
versions don't even cover the cost of the website. Newspapers are
trapped because they have to maintain a free website version of their
product or risk being written off as a non-player.