La Sportiva Miura vs. Katana (and fit question)
Mike
Sportiva Miura and Katana (based on fit and shoe design).
Alas the local REI has only one pair of each. The 40.5 Miura had
room for my foot, and maybe 2 electrons, that with my toes curled (one
toe would have wanted to push thru the front if I'd tried for flat
feet). The 42 Katana was far too big.
So questions...
a) velcro vs. laces aside, these shoes seemed VERY similar. Anything
I'm missing?
b) stretch... the Miura's are lines, so I'm guessing they will not
stretch much, but the Katana's might?
c) fit... where do I want this to end up (assuming any stretching is
done)... I do not feel like I would choose to walk around in the
Miura's that I tried on. Combination of the curled toes, and cambered
shape made me think, gosh what a perfect shoe if a slipper so I could
take it on/off after each climb. Is that what I should do, or should
I bump up a size so that I feel I would wear them to walk (not hike,
just short walk). Or is that possibly a result of the cambered shape
that I've just not experienced yet and that I'd get used to?
d) assuming someone tells me.. oh that toe-curling 40.5 is just the
right size, or even 1 size too big (if you didn't scream then its not
tight enough)... what is the practical consequence of not going small
enough?
Thanks,
Mike
^,,^
> Looking for my "next" pair of shoes, I've narrowed it down to the La
> Sportiva Miura and Katana (based on fit and shoe design).
>
> Alas the local REI has only one pair of each.
mike,
i'd urge you not to by climbing shoes at any shop that only has "one
pair of each"
for while its not so bad as it was in the days of EBs (i ranted
endlessly on that a while back. avoid it.), even today no two shoes of
the same model/manufacturer of 'the same size' are of in fact the same
size. nature of the beast - all carefully planned and executed leather
and last measurements become pointless when they apply the hot sticky
rand and sole. everything goes kablooey. a friend who sucks sticky
rubber particles for a living (resoles climbing shoes) agrees with me on
this.
as such, best to find a store with plenty of models of shoes, plenty of
sizes, and plenty in each size. then spent an hour or four finding a
one that fits just right. then the other that fits just right. ignore
sizes printed on the box. and abandon all hope of finding a perfect
left and a perfect right in the same box.
well, ok, by sheer anti chance you might find both in the same box, but
it would be a hell of a coincidence. like lou gerhig getting lou
gerhig's disease. wow, what are the chances of _that_ happening?
and i'd urge you not to get married to a given model of shoe just
because it has features, or a price, or a name, or a jaw droppingly
attractive spokes-hiney climber. go for what fits as well or better
than your skin. for that just might keep you on the rock at the top of
that 90 foot runout. the jaw droppingly attractive spokes-hiney
climber. jaw droppingly attractive spokeshiney won't...
though in good conscience i must admit i only buy sportivas. of course
i'll wear anything i can beg, weasel, or borrow.
and oh yeah take a pair of thin polypro liner socks with you (or
"borrow" same from the store) -- makes wedging your piggies into
countless wrong size shoes notably less painful. fwiw.
done.
wow... this post is almost... well, human. hell, its nearly
intelligible! man i'm gonna get my doctor to give me a boatload more of
these blue ones.
canis est,
^,,^ [ikc: dogboy]
was, in my 'ute: SARONG; NOT SKIRT now: SARONG; STAND FAR OFF
FERAL; NOT GOTH FERAL; NOT IMMORTAL
IMMORTAL; SO FAR; TOO CLOSE; SO FAR
TOO CLOSE; STAND FAR OFF
~~~~~~~~~~~OB:OtrPplQuoteWad Follows~~~~~~~~~~
"Who is the critic, and what power does he seek over the text?" -Fred
Nietzche
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it." -Ozzy Wilde
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former." -Al Einstein
~~~~~~~~~~~~OB:OtrPplQuoteWad Ends~~~~~~~~~~~~
don't anthropomorphise ^,,^ -- for he really don't like that shit
Mike
shoes within 2 hours drive... and the one I mentioned (with only one
pair of each that I seemed to like) is the one with the better
selection. I'm thinking about ordering online thru REI and returning
until I get the right size (REI is the one that had them, but only in
one size).
Hence, trying to get as much info as I can to get my guess right
within the 1st order (or two).
Brands? I care not. I started with 5.10's. I'm going for the shoe
that best meets my needs, no matter the manufacturer or price.
So back on topic.. looking for Muira and Katana info :)
Mike
Ryan Pfleger
I didn't expect them to stretch much, but instead they didn't stretch at
all. Previous to that I had gone through 2 pairs of Mocassyms and 2 pairs
of Cobra's both of which stretched like mad so maybe I just wasn't in the
"lined shoe" frame of mind. So yeah, my fit is with the toe curled as well,
and I'll be darned if they don't edge better than any shoes I've worn
before. The problem is I can't walk in them, and there's not a chance in
hell I would live through the pain of attempting a slab in them either. My
advice to you would be to get a half size (maybe a whole size) smaller than
the Miura's you tried on, but in the Cobra's instead. Or else to maybe get
a half size larger of the Miura's. Another one of my problems is I always
overestimate the pain I am willing to bear while I'm in the climbing shop
trying on shoes. Once I get to the top of a climb and I'm hanging out in
the shoes while rethreading the anchor or something I start thinking...
"These shoes have SHRUNK!!! There's no way I would have bought them if they
had been this small in the shop! What the hell was I thinking!!". So
anyway... the one thing I wouldn't do is go order the shoes just cause some
nitwit (me) told you to. But I guess if you have no choice...
Good luck!!
Ryan
"Mike" <zim...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:699e6401.03052...@posting.google.com...
Josh Beck
> My
> advice to you would be to get a half size (maybe a whole size) smaller than
> the Miura's you tried on, but in the Cobra's instead. Or else to maybe get
> a half size larger of the Miura's. Another one of my problems is I always
The Katanas and Miuras are WAY stiffer and more aggressive shoes than
the Cobras. Totally different beasts. Buy which one you're looking for
- super soft, stretchy slipper (Cobra, Moccasym, etc) or stiff
aggressive sporto-beast (Katana/Miura). Also the sizes of the cobra
are wildly different than the Miura/Katana. I fit a 41 Cobra and a 40
in the Miura and Katana. Most different models size very differently,
and of course this varies further from person to person based on the
feet - I wear a 41 1/2 Mythos and a 42 Mega. I'd hate to put on a 40
Mega or Mythos and a 42 Cobra or Katana would be useless.
I recently tried on many pairs of Katanas and Miuras. There's
definitely a "correct fit" point for me with both shoes (same size in
each shoe) where the fit gets nice and snug and agressive but not
overly painful. Not like all-day-comfy but like
high-performance-wear-for-a-pitch-or-boulder-at-a-time fit. The
biggest differences I noticed were:
-Miura has a bit more aggressive big toe curve. My 2nd toe is longer
than my first which gave me more space in the big toe of the Miura
than the Katana, making the Katana a better fit and feel in general.
-Katana won't lace as tight over the toes however, so make sure the
natural fit of the shoe is good. Has a 2nd liner or stronger liner or
something in the toebox to keep it from stretching to compensate for
the lack of toe laces.
Neither of these shoes should be expected to stretch much beyond
conforming to your foots bumps and lumps.
In general these shoes compete very well with the Anasazi's - the
Katana and the Anasazi Velcro are pretty comparable shoes, seems to me
maybe the Anasazi velcro are a TOUCH stiffer and the Katanas are touch
more asymmetric / downcurved for pockets/steepstuff. The Miura is
definitely much more aggressively downturned / pointy toed than the
Anasazi Lace-up, but I've never climbed in either so I can't make more
comparison than that.
If I couldn't buy the Anasazi Velcro's for $70 at the 5.10 Friday
store I'd certainly own the Katanas. But I don't wear my Anasazi's
most of the time (nor would I Katanas) as they're a very aggressive
face shoe. I wear Mythos for most routes, certainly all slabs and
cracks (which is mostly what I climb). But the Anasazis certainly beat
the snot out of the Mythos on thin faces and edging climbs, and from
trying on Katanas a few times in the store, and hearing from friends
who wear them, I would expect them to perform very comparably.
josh
Mark Heyman
"Josh Beck" <josh-...@assimilation.org> wrote in message
news:bbf510a6.03052...@posting.google.com...
> "Ryan Pfleger" <HATESryanS...@NOcableSPAMonePLEASE.net> wrote in
message news:<vcm2o3n...@corp.supernews.com>...
> I fit a 41 Cobra and a 40
> in the Miura and Katana. Most different models size very differently,
> and of course this varies further from person to person based on the
> feet - I wear a 41 1/2 Mythos and a 42 Mega. I'd hate to put on a 40
> Mega or Mythos and a 42 Cobra or Katana would be useless.
Just to show how personal this is, and how hopless it is to purchase someone
elses solution. without trying it; I own and wear size 40 Mythos and
Katanas!
> -Miura has a bit more aggressive big toe curve. My 2nd toe is longer
> than my first which gave me more space in the big toe of the Miura
> than the Katana, making the Katana a better fit and feel in general.
My big toe is my longest, and my Katanas are a bit to wide. (See my last
comment.) I couldn't wear a 39 1/2 for more than a few minutes, and I
certainly couldn't walk in them, I can't really walk in my 40s after a
couple of hours at a gym.
> -Katana won't lace as tight over the toes however, so make sure the
> natural fit of the shoe is good. Has a 2nd liner or stronger liner or
> something in the toebox to keep it from stretching to compensate for
> the lack of toe laces.
If the natural fit any any shoe isn't good enough buy another.
> Neither of these shoes should be expected to stretch much beyond
> conforming to your foots bumps and lumps.
As a matter of fact I think my feet are conforming to my Katanas! Certainly
not the other way round.
>I wear Mythos for most routes, certainly all slabs and
> cracks (which is mostly what I climb). But the Anasazis certainly beat
> the snot out of the Mythos on thin faces and edging climbs, and from
> trying on Katanas a few times in the store, and hearing from friends
> who wear them, I would expect them to perform very comparably.
I can't compare with 5.10 climbing shoes cause they don't fit me well enough
to wear or even serious try. But, I can edge better in my Mythos than my
Katanas, and in general find Mythos to be more precise. To me, comparing the
same sizes, Mythos feel narrower. I can smear better in my Katanas, and I
can use the width to conform to gym holds. Toe power and the extension I can
achieve with it is the Katanas strongest suit.
Just another perspective
Mark Heyman
> josh
Josh Beck
> I can't compare with 5.10 climbing shoes cause they don't fit me well enough
> to wear or even serious try. But, I can edge better in my Mythos than my
> Katanas, and in general find Mythos to be more precise. To me, comparing the
> same sizes, Mythos feel narrower. I can smear better in my Katanas, and I
> can use the width to conform to gym holds. Toe power and the extension I can
> achieve with it is the Katanas strongest suit.
>
> Just another perspective
>
> Mark Heyman
Interesting that you edge better in Mythos and smear better in
Katanas. You're one of two people I know who edge well in Mythos, most
other folks I've heard from like them for everything except their
edging prowess. The other person who edges like a champ in them has
very petite, very very narrow feet, FWIW.
josh
Mark Heyman
I am not a very big guy 5'7' under 150. and that is a factor, but I think
the most significant factor is as I wrote, my Katanas are a tad wide for me.
Remember too, new (about two years?) Mythos edge better than the really
stretchy ones that gave them their reputation.
To take advantage of Katanas I don't edge on the side, even near to point.I
just place them straight on. This works most of the time for me. A (good)
boulderer wearing Dragons gave me the idea. He said the only part of his
shoe that wears is the point, and that he couldn't use any other part. Even
with the restriction he loved the shoes and thought they were the best he'd
used! I don't wear my Katanas outside as I don't think this strategy would
work so well there.1
I can smedge (a combination of smearing and edging) very effectively to the
sides of the toe as well as straight on. These Katanas are my first pair of
slippers.The thing that amazes me about the Velcro closures is that I can
tighten them so well. I always thought that Velcro was just a convenience
that hindered performance. Not so at all. I can cut off the circulation in
my feet if I tighten my Katanas to much. They stay that tight too, and I can
almost edge in the then. Yeah I know no toe adjustment - but they fit me
perfectly in that area so no real need! Heels fit me perfectly too. Just a
tad wide in the fore foot.
Mark