Jean-Paul Finne sends Just Do It
Phil Requist
It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
behind Americans are.
Still, we have been sandbagging him with too much food (a Santa
Barbara trademark), Dark Forces, and requests to get my network running.
So far, he hasn't redpointed any of these tasks.
Phil Requist
Allez Magazine - Southern California's Crag Mag
John Wallace
(Bruce Hildenbrand) wrote:
> In article <D7Ky7...@beach.silcom.com> Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com>
writes:
> > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
> >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
> >years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
> >behind Americans are.
>
> Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
> is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>
> When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
> know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
> his hands.
>
> Bruce Hildenbrand
Maybe you should go and take a look at "Just Do It". Perhaps then you
might not be so quick to devalue JPF's redpoint. Shit, with an attitude
like yours, you might as well nail your feet to the deck. What a bumbly
comment yours is.
Regards,
John W.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Allen Sanderson
|> > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
|> >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
|> >years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
|> >behind Americans are.
Well, Johnathan Waterman took 145 days to do a route a Mt. Hunter SOLO !! And
it is still unrepeated !! Please don't ask who JW is cause he is dead and it
will just prove once again how far behind some aneorixic magot is pink tights
is.
Get a clue - reel in your holier than now, egotistical, arogant,
attitude. You are demonstrating what is called STD (strinking testicle
diease which is caused by testostrone poisoning which is caused by exsesive
sperm retention). Please see your doctor.
And quite frankly, I don't given a damn who JPF is.
ARS
Huib Wouters
>
> In article <D7Ky7...@beach.silcom.com> Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> writes:
> > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
> >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
> >years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
> >behind Americans are.
>
> is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>
> When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
> know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
> his hands.
>
> Bruce Hildenbrand
He Bruce just to let you know. JPF is a very good climber. JiBe Tribout didn't
climb the route in a day either.
If you find it that hard to accept that "it'll just prove again how far behind
Americans are" you can always think of start training your self. Maybe then,
one day, you will JUST DO IT.
Huib Wouters
Allen Sanderson
|> writes:
|> > > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
|> > >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
|> > >years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
|> > >behind Americans are.
|> >
|> (Bruce Hildenbrand) wrote:
|> > Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
|> > is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
|> >
|> > When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
|> > know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
|> > his hands.
In article <jdub-25049...@slip227.sirius.com>, jd...@sirius.com (John Wallace)
writes:
|> Maybe you should go and take a look at "Just Do It". Perhaps then you
|> might not be so quick to devalue JPF's redpoint. Shit, with an attitude
|> like yours, you might as well nail your feet to the deck. What a bumbly
|> comment yours is.
Well I have seen just do it. What is the big deal ? It is a steep very dificult climb.
So, I have seen a lot of steep very difficult climbs. I think what is the point was that
the original poster was rather arogant and I agree with Bruce's comments. Have you ever
seen "deparvation" on Mt. Hunter ? Well I have and it is a very steep climb. In fact it is
over 4500 feet long (compared to a 150 foot bolted climb). Which is better - both and
neither - that is the point. To each their own. I am personally more impressed by a bold
onsight lead than I am on a lead that has been practiced over and over and over and over.
My suggestion would be for people like phil and john to pull their heads out and not make
such arogant comments.
Allen
Scott Linn
:
:He Bruce just to let you know. JPF is a very good climber. JiBe Tribout didn't
:climb the route in a day either.
Then again, he created (chipped) the existing route.
JUST CHIP IT
--
Scott Linn
sc...@cv.hp.com
"Give them all a designated area, and then blow it up."
--Representative Sonny Bono on endangered species
Bruce Hildenbrand
>In article <3njc5d$m...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com
>(Bruce Hildenbrand) wrote:
>
>> In article <D7Ky7...@beach.silcom.com> Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com>
>writes:
>> > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>> >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>> >years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>> >behind Americans are.
>>
>> Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
>> is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>>
>> When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
>> know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
>> his hands.
>>
>
>Maybe you should go and take a look at "Just Do It". Perhaps then you
>might not be so quick to devalue JPF's redpoint. Shit, with an attitude
>like yours, you might as well nail your feet to the deck. What a bumbly
>comment yours is.
Bumbly in, bumbly out.
Bruce Hildenbrand
ps - and just in case you missed, I did not devalue JFP's redpoint, I was
just not impressed with anything that takes 16-20 days to do that doesn't
climb at least 3000' of vertical.
Greg Opland
> About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>behind Americans are.
I'll ask ? Who's JPF? There, I did it. What a crock of b.s. ! What are we behind
in again ? Oh yeah, we don't have as many top lycra-clad-anorexic-poster-children
spending 20 days on one pitch of climbing. Some of us think there's more to climbing
than comparing our last "redpoint" (gag) with everyone elses. I know the route is
terrifically hard and I congratulate him for making it. Climbing is so much more than
this one small accomplishment, though.
---
\ Greg Opland
o/\_ Commercial Flight Systems Group
<\__,\ Honeywell, Phoenix, AZ
">. |
` .-| E-Mail : "opl...@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com"
. \
. \
.-| "If I don't sticks ta stones, I might break my bones;
. | But flames will never hurt me." Me, 1995
Reto Hartmann
(Bruce Hildenbrand) wrote:
>
> You guys just don't get it so, I guess I will have to spell it out.
>
> There is a little thing called "vision" that is totally lacking, IMHO, from
> the sport climbing scene. "Vision" means seeing the next level of the
> game and upping the ante to that level. A good example of "anti-vision"
> (AKA blindness) was making pink pointing the same as red-pointing
> (basically leaving the draws clipped to bolts). This *lowered* the
> level of the game, it did not raise it.
HMM!!
> Simply climbing a grade harder than an existing route(i.e. doing the
> first 5.14, for example) is something to be noted, but it is not
> visionary. Simply climbing a route in the the equal time, or even
> slightly faster than the previous ascender is not visionary.
Maybe, maybe not.
>
> Here is a good example of upping the ante and becoming visionary:
>
> 1) Warren Harding envisions that man can climb El Capitan in Yosemite
> and using siege tactics, takes 58 days to climb it using a whole slew
> of climbers in support.
Sorry I don't buy it. Unless your idea of vision is bolting and chiping
the hell out of a route just to say you got to the top.
Salathe and company are a better example, not for how they climbed, but
for the fact that in the US no one had ever spent more than one day on a
rock climb, but they spent 3 or was it 5. Harding did not have vission,
he had time. He took what someone had done and brought up a noch. Like
climbing a grade harder not worthy but...
>
> 2) Royal Robbins, leading a party of 4, makes the second ascent of El
> Capitan by Warren Harding's route in 6 days, using non-siege(AKA alpine)
> tactics.
Sorry,
there was a lot of fixed gear, they knew how to go and didn't need to bolt
or chip as much, Simmilar to a rapid 2nd acent (1 day as opposed to severl
days/weeks).
> 3) Royal Robbins, in a party of 3, makes the first ascent of a new route
> on El Capitan(Salathe Wall) using mostly alpine tactics.
So concidering what had already been done at point, what's the big deal?
Oh it was on El Cap!! That makes it special. Nope had been done before.
>
> 4) Yvon Chouinard and TM Herbert make the first ascent of a route
> on El Capitan(Muir Wall) in a two-man team using alpine style tactics.
>
> 5) Royal Robbins make the second ascent, solo, of the Muir Wall
> using alpine style tactics.
Sorry these two did not up any anty what so ever
>
> 6) Jim Dunn makes the first ascent, solo, of a new route on El Capitan
> (Cosmos) using alpine tactics.
>
Best example so far.
> In the above 6 examples, the technical difficulty of the climbing did
> not significantly change, all these routes were at or very nearly at
> the most difficult level of that era. However, the *comittment* by the
> participants certainly did and this is what make these climbs visionary,
> IMHO.
Bruce, I read your "IMHO" and I respect your opinion but in the examples
you give the was really nothing new or different. Sure there was a bit
more commimt, but they were not the fist to bivy on a rock route, or smash
in pins, or even aid.
The same could be argued for those who went away from protectabe craks,
and bolted faces to climb "they had the vision, or the seige tactics on
hard free climbs.
> I am sure that JPF is a much, much, much better climber than me, but
> his ascent of "Just Do It" did little to up the ante in the game they
> call sport climbing.
I agree with you here, it didn't change anything. But I don't feel that
the original post was ment in that context.
>
> As far as all the talk about "Americans being far behind" two things:
>
> 1) I have seen, firsthand, the mass bolting of the cliffs in Europe and
> personally think if that is they way climbing is headed in the US, I
> don't want to be part of it.
Take a look at all those El Cap routes you mentioned before, each one
involved extensive bolting, pin placing, cleaning and chipping. Now
before you smash the way of the Europeans, I think You better take a good
look around. I was hear where Boldering started, Hard free routes as
well, not to mention alpine climbs, Have you done much free climbing in
Switzerland? Done any Beat Kamerlander routes lately? For those of you
who are unformilliar with his work, he has put up many long hard bolted
climbs from the ground up, in the high mountains, From 7 to 20 pitches all
hard (7a>) 4 or 5 bolts per pitch. Is he a visionary? Or is he just
extending and expanning on what othes have done?
>
> 2) secondly, who really cares who is the best as long as *you* are
> having fun climbing!
>
Now that I can agree upon!!!
Cheers,
Reto
--
Reto R. Hartmann
CPO/ Swiss Institute for Experimental Cancer Research
Lausanne, Switzerland
Bruce Hildenbrand
Just to clear up a few misconceptions:
Except for maybe the first ascent of the Nose, all the subsequent ascents
of El Cap mentioned *above* required less than 30-40 bolts total for over
3000' of climbing. I am not aware of any wholesale chipping to make
these routes "go", but they are aid climbs and some forms of aid do
damage the rock.
The main thing that Reto missed in his reply is not the the increased
technical grade upped the ante, it was the committment by the ascentionists.
For example, when Robbins, et. al. did the second ascent of the Nose,
Robbins and his crew were the best climbers in Yosemite. There was no
one on the ground that was capable of being able to mount a rescue if
they got injured or were caught in a storm, etc.. By pulling their ropes
behind them as they climbed up(alpine vs. siege tactics) they made retreat
extremely difficult. So, if anything went wrong, they had only themselves
to rely upon to take care of a problem.
This is comittment! There were no huge bolts and chains every 150'
to facilitate a quick retreat, no cellular phones to call for help
and no other climbers capable of helping them.
Bruce Hildenbrand
George Bell
rhar...@eliot.unil.ch (Reto Hartmann) writes:
> In article <3nmgbf$b...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com
> (Bruce Hildenbrand) wrote:
>> 3) Royal Robbins, in a party of 3, makes the first ascent of a new route
>> on El Capitan(Salathe Wall) using mostly alpine tactics.
> So concidering what had already been done at point, what's the big deal?
> Oh it was on El Cap!! That makes it special. Nope had been done before.
Huh? It was done in around a week and very few bolts were placed (2 or was
it 0?).
> Take a look at all those El Cap routes you mentioned before, each one
> involved extensive bolting, pin placing, cleaning and chipping.
The Salathe could hardly be said to involve "extensive bolting". Also,
I don't see how "cleaning and chipping" applies to this route at all.
Yosemite cracks are generally so clean all you need is huevos grande.
This just shows how much climbing has diverged. I must admit I AM impressed
by anyone who can climb "To Bolt or Not To Be" or "The Nose in a day", even
if it took them a year of attempts, although I have less of a feeling
for what it takes to do the former since I can barely claw my way up
most 5.11's. And who cares if we Americans are "backward" if we're having
fun! I don't.
-George
Aknower
pink tights” suggest about your self-perception with respect to sport
climbers. As a new climber, am I to understand that Waterman’s ascent
diminishes JPF’s accomplishment? Does Phil Requist’s obnoxious style
diminish it? Or have you simply appointed Requist official spokesman for
all sport climbers, and deemed JPF a maggot because Just Do It is bolted?
-maggot.
Jeff Elison
: In article <D7Ky7...@beach.silcom.com> Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> writes:
: > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
: >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
: >years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
: >behind Americans are.
: Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
: is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
: When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
: know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
: his hands.
Yeah, Lynn Hill is a real bumbly too. Can you believe they reported her free
ascent of the Nose. Hell, she didn't even flash it!
Mort
D H Hunter
Man, what is up with this! Why so much hostility! Why can't someone say
"good job" when someone like JP hits a route like Just DO it? Contrary
to what has been stated he is not just another guy with time on his hands.
If all it took was free time every teenager in the U.S. would be lining
up to sent just do it on spring break. The question is: why do some people
have to always attempt to be-little climbers with skill? I have seen JP
climb and think the guy has a bit of talent! IS this bad? Some of the
more closed minds on the net must think so, otherwise doing well would not
lead to slander!
take a deep breath, relax and do unto others. . . . Next time you do a
route you are psyched about look around and see how many people tell you
that you are just another guy with time on his hands!
P.S. - I also heard that Joe Brooks did "Scarface" and that Chris G. did
"To bolt". Any confirmations? and good job to those guys as well!
P.P.S.- Americans are behind but not as far as you might think!
All the best in your climbing efforts!
D.H.
ScoPi
[out and not make
[such arogant comments.
[Allen
Here, Here.
Scott Presho
Steven Gale
>
>Man, what is up with this! Why so much hostility! Why can't someone say
>"good job" when someone like JP hits a route like Just DO it?
that the original poster made to the effect that if we had to ask who
this person was we were farther behind than he thought. The point is that
some people are more concerned with their own intrinsic reasons for
climbing than with following the Euro Sport scene. I am a climber first,
if I have time I might show some interest in what others climb. I can
understand completely that many climbers might have no interest at all
in what JP whoever can climb. The implication that this means they are
"behind" is a load of arrogant bullshit. To be climbers worthy of respect
it is not required that we follow every move of the Euro Sport Climbing
elite. Some might say that being a fan like that has very little to do
with climbing at all.
live well,
steve
--
Steven R. Gale Dept. of Psychology
Climb On! Colorado State University
Eric S. Boltz
They both basically say "what's the big deal with red pointing Just Do It"
and "let me know when someone flashes it".
So, what *is* the most difficult flash to date? I though it was many grades
below Just Do It (which is an 8c right?)...
Also, aren't most of these so-called redpoints really pink-points (qd's
placed on rap)?
-E
--
Eric S. Boltz
My views, opinions and statements in no way reflect those of the U.S. Gov't,
the U.S. Department of Commerce or NIST.
Greg Opland
>> Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
>> is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>>
>> When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
>> know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
>> his hands.
>>
>In article 25049518...@slip227.sirius.com, jd...@sirius.com (John Wallace) writes:
>
>Maybe you should go and take a look at "Just Do It". Perhaps then you
>might not be so quick to devalue JPF's redpoint. Shit, with an attitude
>like yours, you might as well nail your feet to the deck. What a bumbly
>comment yours is.
Dear Bumbly (is this the newest catch prase for the net?) :
Maybe you should go look as some "real" climbing John. Then one pitch may
not seem lilke the accomplishment of a lifetime for you. Bruce didn't downplay
the accomplishment of climbing Just Do It for JPF. He only put it into the big
picture for you. Some people measure climbing by more than what the sheer
difficulty is, or how much it's going to impress someone. 20 days for one route?
Hans Florine and company did 20 Classics in 20 days...now that's climbing!
D H Hunter
>!! And
>it is still unrepeated !! Please don't ask who JW is cause he is dead and
it
>will just prove once again how far behind some aneorixic magot is pink
>tights
>is.
>Get a clue - reel in your holier than now, egotistical, arogant,
>attitude. You are demonstrating what is called STD (strinking testicle
>diease which is caused by testostrone poisoning which is caused by
>exsesive
>sperm retention). Please see your doctor.
>And quite frankly, I don't given a damn who JPF is.
Good for John (even if he is dead) and good for JP! But sir you too
appear to suffer from several disorders yourself:
1) Shit mouth: A frequent occurance in the climbing world, it seems that
some climbers deficate from the wrong end. In fact, with the advent of
the internet it seems that some individuals are suffering from "shit
fingers. "
2) anti-social behavior: Should be self explainatory!
Even if you don't think it is cool to post such information as JP on JDI
can't you express this in a manner that implies that you have greater
intellengence than a tapeworm? A well stated opinion is SO much more
enjoyable that pure spray. Finaly, There are Many people on rec.climbing
who enjoy hearing such news, why can't they be allowed to? Why do you
get to have the last -angry- word? Finaly I am ashamed that someone in my
climbing comunity (salt Lake) must be such a negitive force. Salt Lake has
enough angry, antisocial bastards must you be one of them?
see ya in the canyons!
Zack Grossman
>hu...@duttwta.tn.tudelft.nl (Huib Wouters) writes:
>:
>:He Bruce just to let you know. JPF is a very good climber. JiBe Tribout didn't
>:climb the route in a day either.
>
>Then again, he created (chipped) the existing route.
>
the hold, Scott Franklin filled it in, and then JB figured out how to climb the
route without the hold in question.
Zack Grossman
<nis...@albnyvms.bitnet.edu>
Bruce Hildenbrand
>bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com (Bruce Hildenbrand) wrote:
>>Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
>>is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>>
>>When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
>>know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
>>his hands.
>>
>>Bruce Hildenbrand
>
>but why be so negative and angry about it? 90% of the posts in this newsgroup don't interest me,
>but so what, that's stuff other people are into, it doesn't bother me.You must never pick up a
>newspaper for fear of reading an article that doesn't corcern or interest you.
>
>Second, if "flashes" are all that matter (why not onsights?) it might be wise to notice that the
>people doing the hardest flashes also redpoint routes to prepare themselves for
>onsighting/flashing. Jean-Paul Finne has onsighted 13c, harder than you or ANY American climber.
>Why? Perhaps because he doesn't live in his own small "ethical" world, but embraces as range of
>climbing sytles and techniques (he also flashed Equinox, a 12d crack in Joshua Tree this trip).
The original poster arrogantly made this whole discussion and "us versus them"
by making the statement that Americans are far behind.
Well, just to let you know, I bever joined the competition so I am not far
behind in anything except maybe my outside reading!
If the original poster had said something like, "Belgian JPF completed
a red-point ascent of JBT 1993 route "Just Do It" after 16 days
of work on the route", I would have had no problem with it, since I
don't really care and would have just said, "that's nice".
But to bring the "if you don't know who this guy is, you are one of the
Americans that is way behind the Europeans" lumps all us fun-hogs into
a "you can't climb worth a damn" category.
I really don't care what other people think about my climbing.
I pick up my trash, don't place unnecessary bolts and treat
other climbers with kindness and respect.
That's really all that counts in my book, not the technical grade.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Roy van Dijk
|> In article <3npjjr$8...@rebecca.albany.edu> nis...@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
|> >In article <3nlv57$r...@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>, sc...@hpcvcem.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
|> >>hu...@duttwta.tn.tudelft.nl (Huib Wouters) writes:
|> >>:
|> >>:He Bruce just to let you know. JPF is a very good climber. JiBe Tribout didn't
|> >>:climb the route in a day either.
|> >>
|> >>Then again, he created (chipped) the existing route.
|> >>
|> >
|> > Not that it really matters, but according to Dale Goddard, JB chipped
|> >the hold, Scott Franklin filled it in, and then JB figured out how to climb the
|> >route without the hold in question.
|>
|> "go". The fact that he found a way to do the move without the altered
|> hold is a strong case for not chipping in the first place. I have very little
|> respect for climbers who chip holds, regardless of the outcome.
|>
|> Bruce Hildenbrand
I totally agree with Bruce.
Chipping holds destroys the rocks for future more difficult
routes. When you can't do a root, move to another one route, and
leave this one for others to attempt. Maybe they find a way to
climb it.
Roy.
--
****************************************************************
Roy van Dijk
Dept. of Elec. Eng. EH9.09
P.O.box 513
5600 MB Eindhoven
The Netherlands
phone: ++ 31.(0).40.47.33.74
E-mail: ro...@eeb.ele.tue.nl
www climbing site: Rock Climbing in Europe
URL address: http://www.eeb.ele.tue.nl/climbing/index.html
****************************************************************
Eric S. Boltz
Okay, so pinkpoint is now redpoint, right?
So trad, if I rap first and place my pro, qds, runners, etc. and
then climb it without weighting pro, I've "redpointed" it?
blech.
What if I sport climb and clip my bolts on the way up?
Can I call it a super-redpoint?
(just being an ass cuz the rain's comin' in AGAIN! April bites.)
-E
---
Bruce Hildenbrand
>Bruce Hildenbrand (bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com) wrote:
>: In article <D7Ky7...@beach.silcom.com> Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> writes:
>: > About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>: >It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>: >behind Americans are.
>: Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
>: is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>
>: When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
>: know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
>: his hands.
>
>ascent of the Nose. Hell, she didn't even flash it!
You missed the point here, Mort. Since we Americans are sooooo far behind the
Europeans and Lynn Hill is an American, her free ascent of the Nose must have
been way, way easier than "Just Chip It"! Given that revelation, it *is*
hard to believe she got all that press. Maybe the magazine editors felt sorry
for her not being good enough to even try "Just Chip It".
Bruce Hildenbrand
Bruce Hildenbrand
Evan Bigall
You missed the point here, Mort. Since we Americans are sooooo far behind the
Europeans and Lynn Hill is an American, her free ascent of the Nose must have
been way, way easier than "Just Chip It"! Given that revelation, it *is*
hard to believe she got all that press. Maybe the magazine editors felt sorry
for her not being good enough to even try "Just Chip It".
Not to take anything away from Lynn, but her route on The Nose was
chipped, and my an American as well....
VI 5.13b A0
/Evan
Rob Norris
>So, what *is* the most difficult flash to date? I though it was many
grades
>below Just Do It (which is an 8c right?)...
Stefan Glowacz and Yuji Hirayama have onsighted 8b (13c), and I think
Stefan may have onsighted 8b+ (13d/14a). Among others -- several other
people have onsighted 8b. Impressive.
Peter Croft has onsighted at least one TRAD route given 13a/b (placing
gear
on the way, of course), which is SERIOUSLY impressive.
Oh yeah, Just Do It is rated 8c/8c+ (roughly 14b/c).
>Also, aren't most of these so-called redpoints really pink-points (qd's
>placed on rap)?
Sport climbers generally don't make this distinction; redpoint climbing
in the high grades is almost always done with draws pre-placed.
rob
Chris MacDonald
>Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>behind Americans are.
English pig-dogs! I fart in your general direction. Your father was a
hamster, and your mother smelt of elderberries. Now go away, or I shall
taunt you a second time...
Phil Requist
>Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
>is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>
>When somebody goes up to "Just Do It" and flashes it, then I would like to
>know who it is. Until then, JPF is just another guy with lots of time on
>his hands.
>
First, this news item wasn't posted for YOU specifically. If you're not interested, that's cool;
but why be so negative and angry about it? 90% of the posts in this newsgroup don't interest me,
but so what, that's stuff other people are into, it doesn't bother me.You must never pick up a
newspaper for fear of reading an article that doesn't corcern or interest you.
Second, if "flashes" are all that matter (why not onsights?) it might be wise to notice that the
people doing the hardest flashes also redpoint routes to prepare themselves for
onsighting/flashing. Jean-Paul Finne has onsighted 13c, harder than you or ANY American climber.
Why? Perhaps because he doesn't live in his own small "ethical" world, but embraces as range of
climbing sytles and techniques (he also flashed Equinox, a 12d crack in Joshua Tree this trip).
with climbers.
Phil Requist
Tom Krajna
> About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>behind Americans are.
So send over the best Europeans, we'll get together an American All-Star
team, and we'll compete. In basketball.
Maybe different countries have different priorities when it comes to
sports...nah, that couldn't be it. :-)
--Tom K.
Quang-Tuan Luong
In article <3nq69q$2...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
|> You missed the point here, Mort. Since we Americans are sooooo far behind the
|> Europeans and Lynn Hill is an American,
I believe that she spends lots (most ?) of her time in the South of France
now. I am just wondering what she does there since there is nothing but
bolt-littered crags there :-)
Tuan.
Phil Requist
>> About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>> It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>> years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>> behind Americans are.
> Well, Johnathan Waterman took 145 days to do a route a Mt. Hunter SOLO !! And
> it is still unrepeated !! Please don't ask who JW is cause he is dead and it
> will just prove once again how far behind some aneorixic magot is pink tights
> is.
> Get a clue - reel in your holier than now, egotistical, arogant,
> attitude. You are demonstrating what is called STD (strinking testicle
> diease which is caused by testostrone poisoning which is caused by exsesive
> sperm retention). Please see your doctor.
> And quite frankly, I don't given a damn who JPF is.
UMM, yeah. Let's see here... I write 3 sentences, two of them objective facts, the third, a minor reference to
how easily Europeans come over and redpoint our hardest routes, and you...
1. Call JPF an "anorexic maggot in [check your spelling on these last 3 words, you spelt them all wrong] pink
tights". Where did this come from and why are you so angry about his accomplishment?
2. Regarding my "holier than thou [check your spelling again], egotistical, arrogant [check your spelling again,
hereafter abriviated CYSA], attitude." Actually, I made no claims regarding my abilities (as a climber, I'm
crap), I'm just reporting news. How did I get to be the arrogant one?
3. Thank you for informing me of my STD. I'll call my doctor today. (In this sentence, CYSA on testosterone and
excessive.)
4. If you don't care who JPF is, why not just ignore it? Why get so negative, irrational, and angry?
Phil Requist
Sherri J. Thompson
If you fuckers *climbed* as much as you bitched and nit-picked your
climbing would be a lot better off, eh?
Namaste ... Mattie
William Wright
Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> wrote:
>UMM, yeah. Let's see here... I write 3 sentences, two of them objective facts, the third, a minor reference to
>how easily Europeans come over and redpoint our hardest routes, and you...
>
>1. Call JPF an "anorexic maggot in [check your spelling on these last 3 words, you spelt them all wrong] pink
Phil, it's no crime being an internet rookie, but you made a common mistake
in the above. Almost EVERY time someone slams another for bad spelling, they
have incorrect spelling in the very note they did the slamming. You've spelled
numerous words wrong in this post. In general, we don't give a shit about
spelling and you only look like an ignorant ass correcting someone, as many
others have found out by making this mistake.
>4. If you don't care who JPF is, why not just ignore it? Why get so negative, irrational, and angry?
Phil, are you really this stupid? You don't know why people got upset about
your post? You truly must be a social outcast not to understand why people
get upset.
Bill
--
Bill Wright (bi...@netcom.com)
or (bill_...@mail.amsinc.com)
Home: (303) 494-7232
Work: (303) 969-3583
Mark M Oveson
> If you f---ers *climbed* as much as you bitched and nit-picked your
> climbing would be a lot better off, eh?
>
> Namaste ... Mattie
Since the Hindu greeting/farewell "namaste" denotes saluting the god
within each person, I would suggest in the future that you refrain from
using it and the "f" word in the same breath, as it were. Have a little
respect.
MO
P.S. By the way, it isn't capitalized. They don't have capital letters
there.
Bruce Hildenbrand
>
>If you fuckers *climbed* as much as you bitched and nit-picked your
>climbing would be a lot better off, eh?
Ooohh, boy that sure puts us all in our place. What if some of us
are more than content with our climbing ability and think that we
don't need to be a lot better off. Just because you are struggling
to assert yourself in the climbing community doesn't mean that the
rest of us need to feel self-conscious about our abilities.
Climbing is fun first, all other stuff is way back in second place.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Eric DeFonso
>>>writes:
>>> About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>>> It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>>> years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>>> behind Americans are.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>2. Regarding my "holier than thou [check your spelling again], egotistical,
>arrogant [check your spelling again, hereafter abriviated CYSA], attitude."
>Actually, I made no claims regarding my abilities (as a climber, I'm crap),
>I'm just reporting news. How did I get to be the arrogant one?
You weren't just reporting news, you also inserted an arrogant editorial
comment. Reread your own quote. You insinuated that just because I don't
know who Jean-Paul Finne is, I'm somehow "far behind". Far behind what? I
wasn't aware that an arbitrary standard had been set up against which I was
to be judged.
In light of your little comment, which you seem to have conveniently
forgotten, can you now see why not everyone reacted to your post with
fawning respect of JPF's accomplishment?
By the way, check your spelling of abbreviated, smartboy.
--
Eric DeFonso "As the evening sky faded from a salmon color to a
Atmospheric Science sort of flint gray, I thought back to the salmon
Univ. of California, Davis I caught that morning, and how gray he was, and
++++++++++++++++++ how I named him Flint." -- Jack Handey
Alistair Veitch
>In article <D7p3n...@bldrdoc.gov> Eric S. Boltz, ebo...@nist.gov writes:
>>So, what *is* the most difficult flash to date? I though it was many
>grades
>>below Just Do It (which is an 8c right?)...
>Peter Croft has onsighted at least one TRAD route given 13a/b (placing
>gear
>on the way, of course), which is SERIOUSLY impressive.
Pitch 2 (3?) of The Shadow on the Squamish chief was a on-sight flash
for Peter Croft, on the first free ascent and goes at (I think) 13b. An
overhanging dihedral, full on stemming (hands and feet), if I remember
the guidebook entry. I can only dream... That man has muchos talent and
cojones...
Cheers,
Alistair
--
Alistair Veitch | Email: ave...@cs.ubc.ca | o/\_ "I'd rather
U. of British Columbia | Phone: +1 604 822-9407 | <\ _,\ be climbing"
Vancouver | Fax: +1 604 822-4585 | "> |
Canada | | : |
Simon Isbister u
the Americans are right (a bit rude in pointing it out, mind you, but
still right).
-Simon-
David Harris
>In article 6...@beach.silcom.com, Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> () writes:
>stuff deleted
>>Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>>behind Americans are.
>Oh yeah, we don't have as many top lycra-clad-anorexic-poster-children
>stuff deleted
Okay, I give up. I've followed this thread with increasing perplexity,
and mabye one (or more) of you who have participated can enlighten me.
The original post was a bit of sport climbing news that ended with an
"up yours" to the american trads. Flamebait for sure, but why is
everybody yelling about anorecic maggots in pink lycra and
head-in-the-sand-american-old-farts? Why not toast Mr. Requist for his
last sentence instead of aiming the big flamethrower at whatever kind
of climbing you don't like?
The only sense in the whole thing so far was Mattie Thompson who
suggested that everybody would be better off climbing instead of
whining -- and what did that get her? A lecture about who the hell was
she to be sticking her nose in.
No, wait, there was one other bit of sense. Somebody said to the lot
of you "I fart in your general direction."
D
------------------------------------
David Harris
dha...@mindlink.bc.ca
-------------------------------------
Gregory Hill
Scott Linn <sc...@hpcvcem.cv.hp.com> wrote:
>hu...@duttwta.tn.tudelft.nl (Huib Wouters) writes:
>:
>:He Bruce just to let you know. JPF is a very good climber. JiBe Tribout didn't
>:climb the route in a day either.
>
>Then again, he created (chipped) the existing route.
>
I'm kind of surprised that nobody has mentioned the irony of the
name "Just Do It" for a climb that never gets done that way.
All the arrogance about how incredibly far behind Americans are
just proves how incredibly far some people's heads are up their
behinds...
--
| O___| U. of Colorado, Computer Science Department |
| Montani /\ \_ (303) 492-4740 |
| Semper \ \/\_\ gh...@cs.colorado.edu |
| Liberi U \_ | |
Phil Requist
>I pick up my trash, don't place unnecessary bolts and treat
>other climbers with kindness and respect.
>That's really all that counts in my book, not the technical grade.
>
>Bruce Hildenbrand
Phil Requist
David Newton
Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> wrote:
>2. Regarding my "holier than thou [check your spelling again], egotistical, arrogant [check
your spelling again,
>hereafter abriviated CYSA], attitude." Actually, I made no claims regarding my abilities (as a
climber, I'm
And let's face it, people who leave posts longer than
80-chars are inconsiderate :)
Why are y'all getting so upset about who cares about which
climber's accomplishments? I don't care if it took him a
year, climbing a 5.14 is pretty hard. Of course, I don't really
care who climbed which 5.14, either, 'cuz that's about two
number grades above what I could redpoint anyway. (I should
point out that I have never redpointed anything harder than
a mid-range 5.11, and that took me long enough, but I've only
been climbing a short time, so I'm not too grumpy.)
Darren O'Connor
> |>
> |> Okay, so pinkpoint is now redpoint, right?
> |> So trad, if I rap first and place my pro, qds, runners, etc. and
> |> then climb it without weighting pro, I've "redpointed" it?
> |>
> |> blech.
>
>
> Suppose I place 3 pieces, fall, lower to the ground,a nd pull my rope.
> Then my partner clips my 3 pieces, adds 4 more, falls, lowers, and pulls
> the rope. Finally, I climb, clipping those 7 pieces, add a few more and
> top out.
>
> Does this count as a redpoint?
>
> Ken
What counts is you got in a day of climbing! And evidently you trust
your partner's placements--another reason to be happy.
Darren
o/
/O/\
/
Magnus Homann
Bruce> But to bring the "if you don't know who this guy is, you are one of the
Bruce> Americans that is way behind the Europeans" lumps all us fun-hogs into
Bruce> a "you can't climb worth a damn" category.
But you *are* behind in terms of technical difficulty. I wouldn't say
*far* behind, but nevertheless. If that doesn't matter to you, so be
it. I can't see the point in flaming people for telling the truth. :-)
Bruce> I really don't care what other people think about my climbing.
Bruce> I pick up my trash, don't place unnecessary bolts and treat
Bruce> other climbers with kindness and respect.
That's nice.
Homann
(who constantly is being lump together with French
sport-climbers who chip, just because I live in Europe...)
--
Magnus Homann Email: d0a...@dtek.chalmers.se
URL : http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/DCIG/d0asta.html
The Climbing Archive!: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/Climbing/index.html
Magnus Homann
Tom> So send over the best Europeans, we'll get together an American All-Star
Tom> team, and we'll compete. In basketball.
Hey, just remeber: We have greater visionaries in basketball than you
do! This is *very* important! :-) :-)
Homann
Phil Requist
>Phil, it's no crime being an internet rookie, but you made a common mistake
>in the above. Almost EVERY time someone slams another for bad spelling, they
>have incorrect spelling in the very note they did the slamming. You've spelled
>numerous words wrong in this post. In general, we don't give a shit about
>spelling and you only look like an ignorant ass correcting someone, as many
>others have found out by making this mistake.
was all correct.) Again, sorry.
>>4. If you don't care who JPF is, why not just ignore it? Why get so negative, irrational, and angry?
>
>Phil, are you really this stupid? You don't know why people got upset about
>your post? You truly must be a social outcast not to understand why people
>get upset.
don't like to be prodded would ignore it, I was wrong: they got mad.)
I think we're all just beating a dead horse.
Phil
Robert Ternes
He did the route.
He probably pinkpointed it.
Ins't there a rad v. trad discussion circulating around somewhere?
Or perhaps a bolts v. pro argument?
Oh wait, shhh, did he say "retrobolt"?
It's just getting old. It seems like any accomplishment posted here is like a
troll for little undermining comments. God! Just be happy! And worry about
your own performance!
Oh yeah, is the .10 to the right of Spectrum at Little Granite Mountain a
little off from the '80's PHX trad rating scale (like easier than Pinnacle's
hangovers)? Comments, Greg? Tim? Just something to displace this bloody dim
thread!
Hey, flame me via e-mail, OK! Now I see Mr. Bubb's point perfectly....
Please, flames + the like belong to email.
tra...@primenet.com
MCennam13a
Boy are we all self-absorbed in every possible way. Sure is a good thing
that climbing is such an incredibly diverse activity.
Jean-Paul Finne: congrats. That is way cool. By the way I assumed that we
are talking about Just Do It that is 14c, and on the Monkey formation at
Smith; but you know it could be Just Do It that is 10a (I think), and down
in the gorge at Smith, and if that is the case then I am not too impressed
because I did it first try, what is that a flash or something. Just
kidding.
We all need to look at climbing and enjoy what we do. I really think that
one camp insulting the other is silly. Sport Climbing, Trad Climbing, Aid
Climbing, Tree Climbing, Scaffolding Climbing are all incredibly different
activities.
And since some of us already have enough self-esteem to not insult
everyone around us, we just must be better than the rest of us.
Pushing difficulty (sport climbing) may not have vision, but I think that
it is a little ridiculous to give climbing such importance. Who cares, it
is fun more than anything. I think it is cool if some guy climbs 14c or
13b or if I do 12a, or somebody does their first 5.6. I also think it is
cool if someone does The Nose for the billionth time, or puts up a new
route up on Baffin Island.
Lighten up, have fun, climb lots,
Michael Cenname
Kenneth Cline
David Newton
>Suppose I place 3 pieces, fall, lower to the ground,a nd pull my rope.
>Then my partner clips my 3 pieces, adds 4 more, falls, lowers, and pulls
>the rope. Finally, I climb, clipping those 7 pieces, add a few more and
>top out.
>
>Does this count as a redpoint?
gear on the redpoint attempt. Preplaced gear, even draws, makes it a
pinkpoint. But then, I learned to climb at Devil's Lake, where I'd get
yelled at if I dogged at _all_, so my "ethics" are probably not the
same as others.
(This is the same place where when I on-sighted (TR, as there's no
bolting and very little gear possible) a .10c and told one of the locals
who immediately asked "How many beers did you have?" to which I truthfully
replied "Two." "_THAT_ doesn't count," he replied. "You have to have at
_least_ four to count that as an on-sight." Rough neighbourhood.)
Dave
Quang-Tuan Luong
In article <3o3ged$k...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Jeff Batten) writes:
|>
|> Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days.
I could climb to the top of El Cap at least 32 times
during 16 days using the Yosemite Falls trail.
|> Note: Whats the attraction of spending all that time on a single
|> pitch. I can understand 8 hrs for a copperhead seam. But 16 days
|> for a sport route.
What's the point of spending months practicing the thirty-minute Liszt
sonata, while the same person could in the same amount of time master
thousands of pages of pop piano music ?
Tuan.
Mark Scott-Nash
>
>Hey Climber Folks
Hey, dude..
>
>Boy are we all self-absorbed in every possible way. Sure is a good thing
>that climbing is such an incredibly diverse activity.
Allows us to be self-absorbed in incredibly diverse ways..
>
>Jean-Paul Finne: congrats. That is way cool. By the way I assumed that we
>are talking about Just Do It that is 14c, and on the Monkey formation at
>Smith; but you know it could be Just Do It that is 10a (I think), and down
>in the gorge at Smith, and if that is the case then I am not too impressed
>because I did it first try, what is that a flash or something. Just
>kidding.
You think this is a joke? Who do you think you are? Would you laugh
if someone on another route pulled your pants down and threw them off
the cliff so you had to climb NAKED?? Just do THAT, Mr. High and Mighty!
You're 10a will end up being your shoe size with an attitude like
that. And don't even mention the BOLTS and belay forces needed to hold
you in place if you weigh 350 lbs!! Even a rock the size of that one
on that stupid Prudential commercial couldn't hold you (assuming you could
get a mongo sling around it in the first place)!
>
>We all need to look at climbing and enjoy what we do. I really think that
>one camp insulting the other is silly. Sport Climbing, Trad Climbing, Aid
>Climbing, Tree Climbing, Scaffolding Climbing are all incredibly different
>activities.
I didn't realize scaffold climbing was a sport. How do I get into this?
>
>And since some of us already have enough self-esteem to not insult
>everyone around us, we just must be better than the rest of us.
We don't insult US with the California self-esteem argument that WE and
I will do in the rest of (this) country (not ENGLAND or other stupid
euro countries who are so far behind in the climbing scene that I (we)
think they must have untied from the rope and descended because they
were SCARED)..
>
>Pushing difficulty (sport climbing) may not have vision, but I think that
>it is a little ridiculous to give climbing such importance. Who cares, it
>is fun more than anything. I think it is cool if some guy climbs 14c or
>13b or if I do 12a, or somebody does their first 5.6. I also think it is
>cool if someone does The Nose for the billionth time, or puts up a new
>route up on Baffin Island.
Vision? VISION?? The VISION thing!! Ask someone who has coke bottle
thick glasses what the vision thing means! You'll see... Even though
HE WON'T because s/he lost the damn glasses during the naked climb done
previously...
And how can you POSSIBLY say climbing has no importance? The only thing
more important is this news group!
>
>Lighten up, have fun, climb lots,
I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! Is this guy totally freaking NUTS or something?
Lighten THIS up, pal! And if I ever see you or that close friend of yours
who chops bolts in Conneticut around MY climbing area, I'll definately be
there!
-Mark
P.S. Disclaimer: This is HUMOR. I know, impossible to believe that
someone will take this seriously, but I know that there are people just
now realizing, as they read these words, that this isn't SERIOUS..
Scott Linn
: Now I've seen everything- an argument in which I actually think
: still right).
It's okay; it just means we're learning from the 'Brits. :-)
--
Scott Linn
sc...@cv.hp.com
"Give them all a designated area, and then blow it up."
--Representative Sonny Bono on endangered species
Jeff Batten
>
>: Just to let you know, some of out there don't care about who *anybody*
>: is who had to take 16-20 days to get up a route(regardless of difficulty).
>
>
Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what some
euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher) Astroman? Did he
solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF, whoever you are. PS - If it was not
for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
Note: Whats the attraction of spending all that time on a single
pitch. I can understand 8 hrs for a copperhead seam. But 16 days
for a sport route. I don't mind free climbing if it gets me to
a nice aid pitch.
Jeff
Alan Little
In article <BIGALL.95A...@netcom2.netcom.com>
big...@netcom2.netcom.com "Evan Bigall" writes:
>
> Not to take anything away from Lynn, but her route on The Nose was
> chipped, and my an American as well....
>
I haven't climbed in Yosemite, but I understand a lot of the thin crack
climbing there is massively "chipped", in the sense that the climbing
is on pin scars. I presume this would definitely apply to the Nose. So
let's not pretend the odd single hold on a sport route is any worse
in terms of changing the natural resource. I even read a letter in
_Climbing_ recently concerning the best way to peg desert sandstone
cracks so as to manufacture good finger locks rather than flared pockets.
--
Alan Little
Anthony R Bubb
cli...@CS.CMU.EDU (Kenneth Cline) writes:
|> (Eric S. Boltz) writes:
|> |>
|> |> Okay, so pinkpoint is now redpoint, right?
|> |> So trad, if I rap first and place my pro, qds, runners, etc. and
|> |> then climb it without weighting pro, I've "redpointed" it?
|>
|> Suppose I place 3 pieces, fall, lower to the ground,a nd pull my rope.
|> Then my partner clips my 3 pieces, adds 4 more, falls, lowers, and pulls
|> the rope. Finally, I climb, clipping those 7 pieces, add a few more and
|> top out. Does this count as a redpoint?
I call it "Seige."
If it wasn't on sight, who cares?
If it wasn't on-sight, it is not reflective of your climbing ability,
it was reflective of your physical ability. I differentiate because
I consider climbing 90% mental, and the most of the rest is footwork.
If you eliminate teh mental aspect, you eliminate 90% of the job.
Now, if you do all of it by yourselves, without any "beta" or seeing
someone do it, regaurdless of how many trys, I'll give you some credit.
Since I've mailed with both of you and read your posts on a somewhat
regular basis, I KNOW that you were both asking rhetorical questions.
I am giving a rhetorical answer. To the net.
-T.
Eric DeFonso
Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what some
>euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher) Astroman? Did he
>solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF, whoever you are. PS - If it was not
>for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
Jeez, what's with all the severe attitude problems? First off, JPF is not
from France. Second, JPF wasn't promoting himself in this newsgroup so
you can calm down for a moment before indulging in your stereotype fantasy.
Third, the original post stated that JPF had spent a total of 16 days over
the last few years working on this route, not 16 consecutive days. Fourth,
what does WWII have to do with any of this? This is rec.climbing, not
my.country.is.far.superior.to.yours.so.eat.me.
>Note: Whats the attraction of spending all that time on a single
>pitch. I can understand 8 hrs for a copperhead seam. But 16 days
Some people like to work on very hard routes. Is that so wroooooong?
>for a sport route. I don't mind free climbing if it gets me to
>a nice aid pitch.
Great. So all those "sport climbers" you seem to dislike aren't climbing
at your favorite big walls. What's the problem?
--
Eric DeFonso "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier
Atmospheric Science about cutting them down? We might, if they
Univ. of California, Davis screamed all the time, for no good reason."
++++++++++++++++++ -- Jack Handey
Greg Opland
>First, this news item wasn't posted for YOU specifically. If you're not interested, that's cool;
>but why be so negative and angry about it? 90% of the posts in this newsgroup don't interest me,
>but so what, that's stuff other people are into, it doesn't bother me.You must never pick up a
>newspaper for fear of reading an article that doesn't corcern or interest you.
It never ceases to amaze me that when people read a post, they can interpret
the contents so differently. Here's Phil thrashing on Bruce because he responded
to the original post, that frankly was not JUST information. It had a snotty comment
at the end, stating that for some reason, either we knew who this JPF guy was, or
we were simply too far "behind" to consider ourselves climbers. Did you miss that
part Phil??? Or did you come in after the action had already started?
>onsighting/flashing. Jean-Paul Finne has onsighted 13c, harder than you or ANY American climber.
>Why? Perhaps because he doesn't live in his own small "ethical" world, but embraces as range of
>climbing sytles and techniques (he also flashed Equinox, a 12d crack in Joshua Tree this trip).
Good for him. He's going to cure cancer next, right ?
That wasn't the point of all the hostility Phil. Why don't you start
reading the rest of the posts. All this crap has nothing to do with the
fact that he did or didn't climb any route.
>I've only been following rec.climbing for 2 weeks and I already remember why I
>try NEVER to talk with climbers.
Good attitude. Probably no big deal, though, you would only listen to part of what
they had to say anyway.
---
\ Greg Opland
o/\_ Commercial Flight Systems Group
<\__,\ Honeywell, Phoenix, AZ
">. |
` .-| E-Mail : "opl...@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com"
. \
. \
.-| "If I don't sticks ta stones, I might break my bones;
. | But flames will never hurt me." Me, 1995
Greg Opland
>Huh? It was done in around a week and very few bolts were placed (2 or was
>it 0?).
>The Salathe could hardly be said to involve "extensive bolting". Also,
>I don't see how "cleaning and chipping" applies to this route at all.
>Yosemite cracks are generally so clean all you need is huevos grande.
I believe the Salathe Wall took 13 bolts on the first ascent. Robbins was
specifically trying to do it without using them. 3000 feet of climbing and only
13 bolts! As a comparison, there's a sport route that was put up at Seneca
Falls, Arizona that is 165' feet and has 25 bolts.
Tim Schneider
specifically trying to do it without using them. 3000 feet of climbing and only
13 bolts! As a comparison, there's a sport route that was put up at Seneca
Falls, Arizona that is 165' feet and has 25 bolts.
Yeah.. next time they have a "climb for free" day.. lets head out there with our aiders and
jumars and do some laps! ;-) We'll should be able to tie the route up for awhile?!
-tim
Tim Schneider
>Sport climbers generally don't make this distinction; redpoint climbing
>in the high grades is almost always done with draws pre-placed.
which goes back to Miya's theory about the Golfers infiltrating climbing..
Playing through, becomes.. Clipping Through! ;)
-tim
Gregory Hill
Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> wrote:
>>> In article <D7Ky7...@beach.silcom.com> Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> writes:
>>> About two weeks ago, Jean-Paul Finne of Belgium redpointed Just Do It.
>>> It took him 3 days this trip (a total of about 16-20 over the last couple
>>> years). Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
>>> behind Americans are.
>
>> al...@doug.med.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) wrote:
>> Well, Johnathan Waterman took 145 days to do a route a Mt. Hunter SOLO !! And
>> it is still unrepeated !! Please don't ask who JW is cause he is dead and it
>> will just prove once again how far behind some aneorixic magot is pink tights
>> is.
>> Get a clue - reel in your holier than now, egotistical, arogant,
>> attitude. You are demonstrating what is called STD (strinking testicle
>> diease which is caused by testostrone poisoning which is caused by exsesive
>> sperm retention). Please see your doctor.
>> And quite frankly, I don't given a damn who JPF is.
>> ARS
>
>UMM, yeah. Let's see here... I write 3 sentences, two of them objective facts, the third, a minor
reference to how easily Europeans come over and redpoint our hardest routes, and you...
>
>1. Call JPF an "anorexic maggot in [check your spelling on these last 3 words, you spelt them all wrong]
pink tights". Where did this come from and why are you so angry about his accomplishment?
>2. Regarding my "holier than thou [check your spelling again], egotistical, arrogant [check your
spelling again, hereafter abriviated CYSA], attitude." Actually, I made no claims regarding my abilities
>
>3. Thank you for informing me of my STD. I'll call my doctor today. (In this sentence, CYSA on
testosterone and excessive.)
>4. If you don't care who JPF is, why not just ignore it? Why get so negative, irrational, and angry?
>
Phis, you really don't get it, do you? You are arrogant because of the *tone* of your "minor reference",
not because of your climbing ability, or because you reported on an ascent. Personally I thought
allen's post was hilarious and also to the point, even though I have nothing against sport climbing
and I do a lot of it. Admittedly I don't wear pink tights and I'm not anorexic. I really don't care if
he can spell or not. Since it seems so important to you, though, you might want to try looking up
"abriviated" in the dictionary...
Greg.
Bruce Hildenbrand
What the original poster was referring to was the fact that back in about
1980, Ray Jardine(the inventor of Friends, BTW) chipped a traverse line
on the Nose route of El Cap that bypassed Boot Flake and the King Swing
in an attempt to free climb the Nose. I believe Lynn Hill used that line
during her free ascent.
As far as the pin scars go, don't get down on Yosemite just beacuse
some bozo in the desert has a rectal cranial problem. For you young
folk out there, pins were basically the only form of protection for
a number of years in the Valley. When reasonably safe articifical
chockstones were invented, the Valley locals did an admirable job
(well, we may never forgive Bridwell for some things on the Cookie)
of converting to nuts. It wasn't that hard to do, since for the most
part, nuts were easier to place anyways.
Oh well,
Bruce Hildenbrand
Edd Shackley
Well...
Suppose I place 3 pieces, fall, lower to the ground,a nd pull my rope.
Then my partner clips my 3 pieces, adds 4 more, falls, lowers, and pulls
the rope. Finally, I climb, clipping those 7 pieces, add a few more and
top out.
Does this count as a redpoint?
I thought the traditional term for this is a 'frig' :-)
EDD!
Magnus Homann
Jeff> Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what
Jeff> some euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher)
Jeff> Astroman? Did he solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF,
Jeff> whoever you are. PS - If it was not for AMERICANS all you French
Jeff> boys would be speaking German right now.
Now, who was the yankee talking about european arrogance? I guess
expressions like the above are fine with you all?
Jeff Batten
>
>In article <3o3ged$k...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what some
>>euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher) Astroman? Did he
>>solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF, whoever you are. PS - If it was not
>>for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
>
>Jeez, what's with all the severe attitude problems? First off, JPF is not
>from France. Second, JPF wasn't promoting himself in this newsgroup so
>you can calm down for a moment before indulging in your stereotype fantasy.
>Third, the original post stated that JPF had spent a total of 16 days over
>the last few years working on this route, not 16 consecutive days. Fourth,
>what does WWII have to do with any of this? This is rec.climbing, not
>my.country.is.far.superior.to.yours.so.eat.me.
>
Sorry, I forgot to take my medication. Which lead to blatant Flame
Baiting. Actually 4 El Cap routes.
>>Note: Whats the attraction of spending all that time on a single
>>pitch. I can understand 8 hrs for a copperhead seam. But 16 days
>
>Some people like to work on very hard routes. Is that so wroooooong?
>
Yes, they should get a life!
>>for a sport route. I don't mind free climbing if it gets me to
>>a nice aid pitch.
>
>Great. So all those "sport climbers" you seem to dislike aren't climbing
>at your favorite big walls. What's the problem?
Oh, but they are. What about Lynn on the Nose. :)
Life doesn't get interesting until your 40'ft out from your last piece
of pro on 5.10 face. I have never got the same feeling with a bolt
every 5'.
I remember the days when climbers were men, and the women stayed home :).
What would yvon or warren have said if you walked up to them
in that faggot lycra. :)
Jeff
Evan Bigall
What the original poster was referring to was the fact that back in about
1980, Ray Jardine(the inventor of Friends, BTW) chipped a traverse line
on the Nose route of El Cap that bypassed Boot Flake and the King Swing
in an attempt to free climb the Nose. I believe Lynn Hill used that line
during her free ascent.
Yeah, thats what I was referring to, although I couldn't remember the
details. Lynn's ascent was definitely on the chipped line.
Bridwell has been quoted in various places as saying the non chipped line
"Will never go," or something along those lines but more colorful.
(Famous last words).
I think Lynn's accomplishment is pretty amazing, but, I have to say that
the aspect of it that legitimizes chipping is sad.
Evan
Kenneth Cline
|> euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher) Astroman? Did he
|> solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF, whoever you are. PS - If it was not
|> for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
|>
|>
|> pitch. I can understand 8 hrs for a copperhead seam. But 16 days
|> a nice aid pitch.
Don't knock it till you've tried it. I don't mean clipping bolts, but
rather pushing your limit on a short climb until you succeed on a
nearly impossible (for you) climb.
By the way, nice attitude - big wall dude. Also, by the way, Bachar never
had the guts to solo Astroman. What a wimp.
Ken
Eric Hirst
>Don't knock it till you've tried it. I don't mean clipping bolts, but
>rather pushing your limit on a short climb until you succeed on a
>nearly impossible (for you) climb.
Yup. I used to think working routes was silly, but the few that I
have wound up working have turned out to me very memorable
experiences. Also, "working" routes was not invented by sport
climbers -- it's a staple technique in more respectable forms of
mountaineering. I have a wall that I have attempted eight times.
So far, I have made it to the base of the 5th class climbing once.
Eric Hirst
er...@u.washington.edu
Eric DeFonso
Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <3o3j7q$3...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, szde...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (Eric DeFonso) says:
>>
>>Some people like to work on very hard routes. Is that so wroooooong?
>
>Yes, they should get a life!
>
>>>for a sport route. I don't mind free climbing if it gets me to
>>>a nice aid pitch.
>>
>>Great. So all those "sport climbers" you seem to dislike aren't climbing
>>at your favorite big walls. What's the problem?
>
>Oh, but they are. What about Lynn on the Nose. :)
Ha ha. I see though that you couldn't offer a serious response to my
question.
>Life doesn't get interesting until your 40'ft out from your last piece
>of pro on 5.10 face. I have never got the same feeling with a bolt
>every 5'.
So don't climb short hard routes! Problem solved! Just because YOU don't
like them doesn't mean other people have to stay off them. Or are you
secretly envious, hmmmm?
>I remember the days when climbers were men, and the women stayed home :).
Ha ha, that's so funny. What does that have to do with anything?
>What would yvon or warren have said if you walked up to them
>in that faggot lycra. :)
Why should anyone give a flyin' damn? Do you climb to impress others or to
have fun?
Why oh why do I waste my time like this?
Steven Gale
>>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> writes:
>
>Jeff> Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what
>Jeff> some euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher)
>Jeff> Astroman? Did he solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF,
>Jeff> whoever you are. PS - If it was not for AMERICANS all you French
>Jeff> boys would be speaking German right now.
>
>Now, who was the yankee talking about european arrogance? I guess
>expressions like the above are fine with you all?
>
>Homann
No, I think he sounds like a real dick.
steve
--
Steven R. Gale Dept. of Psychology
Climb On! Colorado State University
Roy van Dijk
|> In article <3o5qa5$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
|> Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
|> >In article <3o3j7q$3...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, szde...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (Eric DeFonso) says:
|>
|> >
|> >>>for a sport route. I don't mind free climbing if it gets me to
|> >>>a nice aid pitch.
|> >>
|> >>Great. So all those "sport climbers" you seem to dislike aren't climbing
|> >>at your favorite big walls. What's the problem?
|> >
|> >Oh, but they are. What about Lynn on the Nose. :)
|> >I remember the days when climbers were men, and the women stayed home :).
|>
As you mentioned, Lynn Hill is a woman
--
****************************************************************
Roy van Dijk
Dept. of Elec. Eng. EH9.09
P.O.box 513
5600 MB Eindhoven
The Netherlands
phone: ++ 31.(0).40.47.33.74
E-mail: ro...@eeb.ele.tue.nl
www climbing site: Rock Climbing in Europe
URL address: http://www.eeb.ele.tue.nl/climbing/index.html
****************************************************************
Al Black
>>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> writes:
>
>Jeff> Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what
>Jeff> some euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher)
>Jeff> Astroman? Did he solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF,
>Jeff> whoever you are. PS - If it was not for AMERICANS all you French
>Jeff> boys would be speaking German right now.
>
>Now, who was the yankee talking about european arrogance? I guess
>expressions like the above are fine with you all?
Nope. The "euro-dog" and assertions about WWII are assinine*. Certainly,
the expression of nationalism isn't half as funny as Whillans.
The give and take about sieging of climbs be it alpine or sport is kind of
interesting though. The two arguments seem to share a lot of assumptions
(rules of the game), but differ only in physical scale. It the part of
the thread that's worth reading.
Lets just call it test run for when the olympic include sport climbing eh?
al
*Believe me I'm an expert.
--
We are softbody of borg.
Training is futile
Right then, chip butties for ya?
Stefan Tirtey
> Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what some
> euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher) Astroman? Did he
> solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF, whoever you are. PS - If it was not
> for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
What are we discussing here? If you like french climbers or not? If aid
climbing is worth more than a 10 meter sport pitch?? Ok I agree that it
may sound a bit strange to some people that somone spends 16 days on 40
meters. But please believe me: for other people its not heaven on earth
to spend a night in a bivuac 1500 feet over the ground...
I mean I don't care and believe everybody should have fun doing what he
likes to do. Jean Paul Finne did this route - OK. I do my routes - OK. Why
don't you do yours and stop talking such shit of AMERICANS
(UPPERCASE!!!???). We don't need anybody mixing up political history
with climbing. Seems to me like kids attitude.
Regards
Stefan Tirtey
Note: Whats the attraction of spending all that time on a single
> pitch. I can understand 8 hrs for a copperhead seam. But 16 days
> for a sport route. I don't mind free climbing if it gets me to
> a nice aid pitch.
> Jeff
George Bell
> I remember the days when climbers were men, and the women stayed home. :)
These days the women free the Nose, and the men climb indoors. ;-)
-George
Ted Pederson
>It never ceases to amaze me that when people read a post, they can interpret
>the contents so differently. Here's Phil thrashing on Bruce because he responded
>to the original post, that frankly was not JUST information. It had a snotty comment
>at the end, stating that for some reason, either we knew who this JPF guy was, or
>we were simply too far "behind" to consider ourselves climbers. Did you miss that
>part Phil??? Or did you come in after the action had already started?
Phil started the action, it is you who have come in quite late.
>>onsighting/flashing. Jean-Paul Finne has onsighted 13c, harder than you or ANY American climber.
>>Why? Perhaps because he doesn't live in his own small "ethical" world, but embraces as range of
>>climbing sytles and techniques (he also flashed Equinox, a 12d crack in Joshua Tree this trip).
>Good for him. He's going to cure cancer next, right ?
No, but there are rumors of water-walking...
>That wasn't the point of all the hostility Phil. Why don't you start
>reading the rest of the posts. All this crap has nothing to do with the
>fact that he did or didn't climb any route.
Ummm, how do I break it to you, that was part of the hostility.
Hello, McFly.
>>I've only been following rec.climbing for 2 weeks and I already remember why I
>>try NEVER to talk with climbers.
>Good attitude. Probably no big deal, though, you would only listen to part of what
>they had to say anyway.
Like many spelling error attacks, your post was inane because it
suffered from the same ineptness that you were attacking. Namely,
you seemed to have missed the part of Bruce's post where he *did*
"thrash on" Phil for the informative part of the post - the ascent by
JPF. Please read the *entire* original posts before making yourself
look so stupid.
Ted Pederson
Bruce Hildenbrand
As one of the original combatants in this "now infamous" diatribe, I would
like ot state that I never trashed the "information" part of the post.
The part that I took exception too was the the fact I was supposed to
be impressed with a guy who took 16 days to climb a 165' route(whatever
the grade). I never said I doubted he did it, I just said that if he took
16 days to do it, then I was not impressed. I am not a big fan of working
routes and I just felt that, whatever the grade, that 16 days seemed to me
to be too long to spend on one route. When somebody comes by and flashes
the route, I will be impressed.
Now, before anyone starts reading too much into the above paragraph,
that does not mean:
1) I think I am a better climber than JPF
2) I don't respect JPF as a climber
I have always been someone who uses "on-sight" ability to measure
the leading abiltiy level of climbers because the vast majority of the
climbs I do are multi-pitch routes where "working a pitch" is really not
an option. I don't really care what level a person can do when they
are "working" a route because that doesn't give me a clue how they will
handle a slimy off-width on pitch 12 of an all-free grade V.
It just seems to me that given enough time, people can get up routes
way above their "on-sight" leading level.
Everybody have fun out there regardelss of race, color, creed or
ethnic origin. But please, pack out all your trash and be kind to
the environment.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Jeff Elison
: I would agree that the US World Cup climbing team does not consistenly
: place as high as thier European counterparts. However, I am not on
: the US World Cup climbing team(I sent my application in late!).
Actually, this is a great example of just how far the US competition
scene really is behind - the US World Cup Climbing Team doesn't exist!!!!
If you have the bucks you send yourself to a World Cup event.
Mort
Eugene N. Miya
Phil Requist <al...@silcom.com> writes:
> Please don't ask who JPF is, it'll just prove once again how far
> behind Americans are.
Okay, then who are you?
Bruce Hildenbrand
Sounds fair to me. Unless some form of corporate sponsorship could
be arranged, if people want to compete in the World Cup, they should
pay their own way. At the present time, I don't see how the US World
Cup team benefits climbing in the United States as a whole, so there
doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to support other climbers in
their quest for World Cupdom.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Jeff Elison
: Hell, I just got beat in a comp by an
: eleven year old kid who had to have a boost to reach the starting hand
: hold.
I guess the judges were looking the other way. Or did all the
competitors get a boost?
Mort
Tim Schneider
In article <3o3asr$l...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
In article <3o2qgg$i...@casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu> cli...@CS.CMU.EDU (Kenneth Cline) writes:
>In article <D7r4t...@bldrdoc.gov>, ebo...@nist.gov (Eric S. Boltz) writes:
>|>
>|> Okay, so pinkpoint is now redpoint, right?
>|> So trad, if I rap first and place my pro, qds, runners, etc. and
>|> then climb it without weighting pro, I've "redpointed" it?
>|>
>|> blech.
>
>Well...
>
>Suppose I place 3 pieces, fall, lower to the ground,a nd pull my rope.
>Then my partner clips my 3 pieces, adds 4 more, falls, lowers, and pulls
>the rope. Finally, I climb, clipping those 7 pieces, add a few more and
>top out.
>
>Does this count as a redpoint?
I am predicting that by about this October, an ascent in this style
will be called a "super flash".
already named it! :) just call it a "singe"
did I spell this correctly (As in he fell into the fire and singed his hair)
its a cross between "sent" and "seige"
as in..
"Oh man.. last weekend Heinous Jim Bob and me climbed this great 5.15z
we singed it dude!"
-tim
Greg Opland
really the point of all this...
In article 5...@nyheter.chalmers.se, d0a...@dtek.chalmers.se (Magnus Homann) writes:
>But you *are* behind in terms of technical difficulty. I wouldn't say
>*far* behind, but nevertheless. If that doesn't matter to you, so be
>it. I can't see the point in flaming people for telling the truth. :-)
Maybe we're behind in terms of monkey-boys climbing thin, overhanging
face routes protected by bolts, but that's only one aspect of the game of
climbing. I'd like to see anyone in the world who can stay with Jim Beyer
for mind-blowing, pants-filling, solo first ascents.
Elmar Stefke
Bruce Hildenbrand <bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>
>an option. I don't really care what level a person can do when they
>are "working" a route because that doesn't give me a clue how they will
>handle a slimy off-width on pitch 12 of an all-free grade V.
>
on the crimpy 5.14 face to the left or to the right. That's of course
after they've slammed in enough bolts to 'protect' it.
E.Stefke (who has vague memories of flailing on Chingando)
Phil Requist
>
>Judging from the results of recent comps, especially the efforts of kids
>like Branford and Hume etc, I would think that perhaps the outlook for
>French dominance in men's sport climbing might be cloudy. Really, 14 and 15
>year old kids climbing 5.13's ! Hell, I just got beat in a comp by an
>eleven year old kid who had to have a boost to reach the starting hand
>though I was 3.5 times his age, he's probably been climbing 20 times
>longer than me :-) )
>
>Besides, it was my first competition, I tied for 4th, I had fun. I'm happy.
>
>Now, anybody want to climbing on real rock this weekend .....?
>
>Tim S.
Yes, America's young climber look very promising. And our youth's are the future of our country in
more ways than one so let's support them.
I was lucky enough to teach a climbing clinic for a high school (North Alegany) in Pittsburgh that
has a climbing team, and a climbing wall. The teacher who started the program was amazing, he had
won Teacher of the Year. His kids are already very good climbers. Also, the young kids in the gyms
(and on rock) are crazy, they can hang anything and get better FAST.
But, the Europeans have had teenagers climbing 5.13 for years. Climbing is much more integrated into
society in France. Most of the high schools have climbing walls from what I hear. Two years ago,
Andy Outis finished 6th in the Junior World Championships, so we definitely have some talent.
I don't climb with kids anymore, as I don't consider it climbing usless you weigh over 170 lbs. But
if people want to encourage our youths, I think a great way is convincing the gyms to support a
climbing team and youth competitions. These comp must be more than just age categories tacked onto
the Expert divisions as they are now. Also, traveling to other gym's comps would help. As would more
home competitions since many people have their own walls these days. Even a home comp can be
sanctioned by the ASCF. (Ours was.)
:)
Phil Requist
Mike Worden
> I don't climb with kids anymore, as I don't consider it climbing usless you weigh over 170 lbs. But
Uh oh. I'm no kid anymore but I'm really going to have to start some serious
donut training to hit 170! Shoot, an' I thought I already was climbing.
Pass me another cruller.
Mike
(short 'n skinny)
--
__ Mike Worden mwo...@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu
o/ \\ 522 LRDC University of Pittsburgh
<\__,\\ Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412 624-7052
"> || http://neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu/~mworden
` || -climb on
Jeff Elison
: If it wasn't on-sight, it is not reflective of your climbing ability,
: it was reflective of your physical ability. I differentiate because
: I consider climbing 90% mental, and the most of the rest is footwork.
: If you eliminate teh mental aspect, you eliminate 90% of the job.
So there is no mental aspect to a hard redpoint? Come on.
Mort
Jeff Elison
: What would yvon or warren have said if you walked up to them
: in that faggot lycra. :)
Seems like Yvon was pretty impressed by Patrick Edlinger's performance
at the Snowbird World Cup.
Mort
Eugene N. Miya
Jeff Batten <bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>> PS - If it was not
>>>for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
Geez, Jeff.
The standard response is that we (the USA) are returning the favor ala
Layfaette (regardless of WWI, WWII, or the formerly planned WWIII).
This land of ours could have remained an English colony.
I believe that we generally blame the German Nationalist Socialist
(or some order, Nazi) Party. I wonder if my German friends in the Tech
GPS Division would be insulted? They tell some interesting WWII stories.
I'll also check de.rec.alpinus for comments about Americans not getting
over WWII.
In article <3o3j7q$3...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, szde...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu
(Eric DeFonso) says:
>>Jeez, what's with all the severe attitude problems?
>>what does WWII have to do with any of this? This is rec.climbing, not
>>my.country.is.far.superior.to.yours.so.eat.me.
Well, it's long to be a long news group.....
In article <3o5qa5$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu> bat...@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Jeff Batten) writes:
>Sorry, I forgot to take my medication. Which lead to blatant Flame
>Baiting. Actually 4 El Cap routes.
>
>Yes, they should get a life!
>
>Life doesn't get interesting until your 40'ft out from your last piece
>of pro on 5.10 face. I have never got the same feeling with a bolt
>every 5'.
Well, I agree with that.
>I remember the days when climbers were men, and the women stayed home :).
Yeah, and I remember the day my Mom told my Dad she was going to learn
how to drive a car.
>What would yvon or warren have said if you walked up to them
>in that faggot lycra. :)
Write them and ask them.
Greg Opland
>
>Shit, I could climb 3 El Cap routes in 16 Days. Who cares what some
Bet I could climb three in one day...Pine Line, La Cosita Left, and Little John Right.
But only that last one if I'm having a super -on day. That one's 5.8 !
>euro-dog from France climbed. Did he free solo (Bacher) Astroman? Did he
>solo space (Charleson El Cap. Big Deal JPF, whoever you are. PS - If it was not
>for AMERICANS all you French boys would be speaking German right now.
There's no reason to bag on JPF. Congratulations to him for pulling what I'm sure
is a very hard climb. Everyone has their own goals. Cool for him to realize one of
his.
BTW: I don't think Bachar has soloed Astroman. I believe Peter Croft is the only
one that's done this (several times...) unless I missed some news somewhere.
Phil Requist
>In article <BIGALL.95A...@netcom2.netcom.com>
> big...@netcom2.netcom.com "Evan Bigall" writes:
>
>>
>> Not to take anything away from Lynn, but her route on The Nose was
>> chipped, and my an American as well....
>>
>
>I haven't climbed in Yosemite, but I understand a lot of the thin crack
>climbing there is massively "chipped", in the sense that the climbing
>is on pin scars. I presume this would definitely apply to the Nose. So
>let's not pretend the odd single hold on a sport route is any worse
>in terms of changing the natural resource. I even read a letter in
>_Climbing_ recently concerning the best way to peg desert sandstone
>cracks so as to manufacture good finger locks rather than flared pockets.
>
>--
>Alan Little
Pin scars left from aid climbing the Nose ARE NOT the only chipped holds. Ray Jardine chipped handholds on the
route in the 70's which were used on Lynn Hill's ascent. These are not pin scars, they are purely and simply
manufactured holds. Lynn Hill had nothing to do with their existence, but did use them.
I'm not taking sides here, just stating facts.
Have fun climbing,
Phil Requist
Phil Requist
>
>I call it "Seige."
>
>If it wasn't on sight, who cares?
>
>If it wasn't on-sight, it is not reflective of your climbing ability,
>it was reflective of your physical ability. I differentiate because
>I consider climbing 90% mental, and the most of the rest is footwork.
>If you eliminate teh mental aspect, you eliminate 90% of the job.
>
>someone do it, regaurdless of how many trys, I'll give you some credit.
>
>
>Since I've mailed with both of you and read your posts on a somewhat
>regular basis, I KNOW that you were both asking rhetorical questions.
>I am giving a rhetorical answer. To the net.
>
>
>-T.
If onsighting is what your into, that's cool. But... (not to argue here, but simply express another viewpoint) executing a
physical movement that has been practiced doesn't, to me, reduce it to a simply physical act. Martial artist, for example,
practice routines thousands of times to prepare themselves physically AND mentally. As Bruce Lee said, "The consciousness
of self is the greatest hinderance to the proper execution of all physical action." Climbing, of all types, forces the
individual to move beyond his ego. This could be because a boulder problem is so hard that any self-conscious thought
impeeds action, or because while onsighting, fear (selfconsciousness again) impeeds action. Thus, the letting go of self,
which I think is what attracts people to climbing, can be achieved by many means.
In my own experience, I find onsight soloing, onsight leading, and redpointing a route I've been on 50 times all very
similar. Each forces me to let go mentally to preform well.
Legendary boulderer John Gill, who emphasizes the mental aspects of climbing, never really onsighted, he felt that proper
movement, grace, and transcentance could only be achieved on a well-rehearsed climb. (Pardon my rough interpretation. See
the back of Eric Horst's training book for a great interview with John Gill, the best part of the book.)
Still, maybe redpointing isn't your thing, that's cool. Just thought I'd express another viewpoint.
Phil Requist
Tim Schneider
Yeah, thats what I was referring to, although I couldn't remember the
details. Lynn's ascent was definitely on the chipped line.
Bridwell has been quoted in various places as saying the non chipped line
"Will never go," or something along those lines but more colorful.
(Famous last words).
Yeah, because of all the pendulums and such, most nose in a day and speed
ascents take a detour around some of the more interesting features of the
Nose in order to save time.
I remember seeing something in an interview will Hill that she thought the
chipped "Jardine Traverse" would have gone at 5.13something had it not been
for the chisel.
I think Lynn's accomplishment is pretty amazing, but, I have to say that
the aspect of it that legitimizes chipping is sad.
especially in this case, because she probably could have climbed it w/o the
chipping, but what's done is done, and Lynn just climbed it, she didn't chip
so I don't feel that the chipping degrades her accomplishment one bit, if
anything it robbed her of another difficult pitch. It is degrading to the
climbing community in general, to that I do agree.
-tim
Steven Reiser, P.E.
Hi,
The only people who are behind are those who care about being better.
When I got into climbing, skiing, kayaking, spelunking, etc. it was
becasue they were sports where I could do my own thing. I never got into
team sports because I hated the attitude that went with comptetion of
someone or some team being "better" implying someone was worse.
My attitude with teams sports was "who cares".
Hence, I don't care where the best climbers in the world come from. I
climb to have fun. I ski to have fun, I kayak to have fun, I spelunk to
have fun. These sports are all physically demanding but recreation to
me. A way of relaxing and all the intensity I put into it is for myself.
However, being mentally or emotionally relaxed otherwise.
It just seem so sad to see the same attitudes that make me despise all the
ball sports so many armchair sport experts rave about watching on TV over
the weekend as they get bloated with beer and chips.
Steve
--
rei...@pmafire.inel.gov
Mark Scott-Nash
How many times must it be said? JPF is NOT FRENCH!!!
-Mark
Sherri J. Thompson
Oh ... I thought we had already talked this subject to death.
Stephen Newby
>Hi,
>The only people who are behind are those who care about being better.
>When I got into climbing, skiing, kayaking, spelunking, etc. it was
>My attitude with teams sports was "who cares".
>Hence, I don't care where the best climbers in the world come from. I
>climb to have fun. I ski to have fun, I kayak to have fun, I spelunk to
>the weekend as they get bloated with beer and chips.
>Steve
>--
I could have said that... ( or maybe I just like collecting gear :-)
--
Steve Newby, Softway Pty Ltd, | Looking... for a suitable quote,
P.O. Box 305, Strawberry Hills, | ... for the meaning of LIFE,
Sydney, NSW 2012, AUSTRALIA. | the UNIVERSE and EVERYTHING.
Fax:+61 2 699 9174 Phone: 698 2322 | No thanks.. I'm just looking!
Bret Watson
--
Bret Watson wat...@death.cage.curtin.edu.au
http://www.cage.curtin.edu.au/~watsonb
Curtin University of Technology, Faculty of Engineering,
Communication Technology Group