Climbers who've had knots named after them
art...@my-dejanews.com
named after the climbers who invented the knot (or at least introduced the
knot to climbing). I'd like to know more about Dulfer (as in the Dulfersitz
or body rappel), Munter, Prusik (or is it Prussik or even Prusic?),
Kleimheist, Bachmann, Hedden (a/k/a Kruetzklem knot), Frost (knot that's used
to tie an etrier), etc. I've heard about Tom Frost's experiences in Yosemite
and his designing stopper nuts but don't know about the other climbers.
Does anyone know any stories or sources of info about them?
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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to...@my-dejanews.com
Wouldn't you rather hear the story behind the "sheepshank" ?
> I assume that many of the knots we use -- like the Munter hitch -- have been
> named after the climbers who invented the knot (or at least introduced the
> knot to climbing). I'd like to know more about Dulfer (as in the Dulfersitz
> or body rappel), Munter, Prusik (or is it Prussik or even Prusic?),
> Kleimheist, Bachmann, Hedden (a/k/a Kruetzklem knot), Frost (knot that's used
> to tie an etrier), etc. I've heard about Tom Frost's experiences in Yosemite
> and his designing stopper nuts but don't know about the other climbers.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
John Byrnes
> Does anyone know any stories or sources of info about them?
Yes. Take your list to a good LIBRARY, dumbshit.
- Lord Slime, in the Dewey Decimal System
Karl Lew
To which there is a sad and sorry sequel, the "cut sheepshank".
--Karl
Inez Drixelius
> I assume that many of the knots we use -- like the Munter hitch -- have been
> named after the climbers who invented the knot (or at least introduced the
> knot to climbing). I'd like to know more about Dulfer (as in the Dulfersitz
> or body rappel), Munter, Prusik (or is it Prussik or even Prusic?),
> Kleimheist, Bachmann, Hedden (a/k/a Kruetzklem knot), Frost (knot that's used
> to tie an etrier), etc. I've heard about Tom Frost's experiences in Yosemite
> and his designing stopper nuts but don't know about the other climbers.
I can help with Dülfer. His full name was Hans Dülfer, he was from the
Rhineland in Germany and considered sickly and weak as a young lad. Yet,
as a student on vacation in the Wilden Kaiser Mountains on the
German/Austrian border, he found that his slight build was ideal for
climbing, he was agile, imaginative and very driven. Supposedly a
brilliant pianist. He was the shining star of his generation of climbers
in the early part of this century, establishing too many routes to cite
here, routes that required technical climbing used to this day, such as
the tension traverse, the lieback and, of course, his abseiling method,
the Dülfer Sitz.
One of Dülfer's climbing partners, a Franz Nieberl, referred to by the
Kaiser climbing population as the "Kaiserpapst," was my Grandfather's
first cousin who frequently came to visit when my mother was tiny, but she
remembers him vividly. Unfortunately the family disbanded somewhat and I
never got to meet Nieberl, who died in 1968 at the age of 93. I have dug
up a lot of information at the Alpen-Verein in Munich and found, amongst
many good books, a wonderful biography of Dülfer (in German, I doubt is
has been translated--would be a fun project....) and a number of essays
about Dülfer by Nieberl. May I share with you part of such an essay.
Pardon its length, but historians may enjoy this.
Nieberl states:
"In 1910 in the Kaiser Gebirge a new star appeard on the horizon: Hans
Dülfer. I had heard things about him that made me shake my head in
disbelief. He supposedly had developed the intricate tension traverse,
the pendulum, he had invented a new method for abseiling, and, last but
not least, figured out the lieback crack climbing technique."
*I (Inez) need to state here that the lieback is either called "dülfern"
or "piazen," Piaz being another who is acredited with the
lieback--historians may bicker....*
"I thought to myself that he was probably one of those false prophets,
like the American in Zermatt who tried to convince me that holds can be
lassoed, and true enough, the fellow had obviously practised his rope
tricks, but..."
Nieberl goes on: "I had just returned to the Stripsenjoch from a climb
and heard that the new star was giving a demonstration nearby. I
immediately raced over there to see all this for myself and spotted a
slight young man with a head of big tufted hair parted on the side, in the
process of a tension traverse. I was truly astonished and even more
surprised when the whole maneuver was explained to me in
mathematical/phycical terms. I didn't understand all that, but what I did
understand was the reality of what I saw. Since the young man was both
humble and friendly, I soon took to him. Of course, I couldn't quite take
to his philosophy of the "impossible can be made possible with aid,"
especially the frequent use of pitons, but I had to admire his ambitions
and his know-how. So I asked him to help me complete the first ascent of
the North Face of the Kleine Halt, on which a huge overhang had me
completely stymied into several retreats. Thanks to Dülfer's brilliant
technique and artistry we completed the first ascent on September 7, 1913,
400 m, approx. 5 hours, German V."
"Hans was not only a one-in a million climber, he was also a sensitive
human being and my best friend. When my wife died unexpectedly, Hans had
me over every single evening in the little house he shared with his
climbing partner Hanne Franz. There, enjoying good music and
conversation, I slowly overcame my grief."
Hanne once stated: "Hans doesn't climb the rock, he caresses it with love."
"Hans Dülfer was killed in France during World War I at the age of 24. I
stood at his graveside in a war cemetary near Arras, deeply shaken. I
placed a little dried Edelweiss next to the soldier's steel helmet that
adorned his grave and wept."
Nieberl, 1967
Translated by Inez Drixelius in 1997
--
Inez Drixelius
Berkeley, California
"Real women wear knee pads"
Inez Drixelius
> art...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Does anyone know any stories or sources of info about them?
>
> Yes. Take your list to a good LIBRARY, dumbshit.
>
Oh, come on, John, this post enabled me to write something I really
enjoyed sharing. The fellow isn't a dumbshit for asking here. Why
shouldn't he?
Jeez! Been out lately Slime?
Inez
Inez Drixelius
I just posted something about Dulfer, using the Umlaut, but the u-Umlaut
has been transformed into a funny square instead of the two dots on the
"u." Please pardon the cyber blunder.
Enjoy!
Oh, and I think the Prussik was named after a Dr. Prussik. In old
climbing books (like REAL OLD, 1909 or so), Prussik advertises some
work-out method. Mayhep it is the same person? Anybody know?
Richard MacKenzie
|>
|> I can help with Dülfer.
Interesting if he pioneered the technique. And as for the knot being named after
him... well, I guess he was one knotty fellow, eh?
rbmack
Inez Drixelius
(Richard MacKenzie) wrote:
I don't know if you could say "dulfer" is French per se for layback. I
was told that Italians call layback "dulfern" and the Germans often call
it "piazen." Either way, is seems like only English speaking climbers
have come up with with a "proper" verb. I see the expression "Pump Risse"
a lot in the Kaiser guide. It translates literally: "Pumpy crack." I
have climbed some great cracks and chimneys in the Wilden Kaiser, it is a
paradise!
Pat Nay
>
> In article <7737l9$gmi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, art...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
Thank you Inez, that was one of the most enjoyable posts I have read for many
a moon. We have traded a few posts before about climbing in Baveria, and I
rarely find posts to this newsgroup as worthy of my interest. I lived in
Garmisch-Partenkirchen for about 5 years where I was a climbing instructor
and skipatrolman. I was throughly engrossed in the climbing history of the
Wetterstein, Karwendal, and Kaisergeberige. It rained too much but I loved
every minute of it. I was there in the 70s and 80s, and hope to go back
soon. It's amazing what standard of climbing was going on way back in 1910.
And the Dulfersitz was my very first abseil, back in 71. Hopefully I will
be able to meet you one day. If you ever get down So. Cal way give me a
holler and maybe we can go climbing in Josh or Ildyllwild. Take care and
keep posting
Bergheil:-)
Pat
Russ Walling
My favorite is still the knot by C.L. Usterfook, a Swiss guy I think.
Easiest to tie (even ties itself) and never comes undone. I'm working
on one right now.....
adios,
Russ
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Visit our WWW site: http://www.climbnet.com/fish
Or try this if you are bored:
http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/Climbing/Quiz/index.html
http://members.aol.com/fishprods/powerandrubber.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Karl Lew
>My favorite is still the knot by C.L. Usterfook, a Swiss guy I think.
>Easiest to tie (even ties itself) and never comes undone. I'm working
>on one right now.....
>adios,
>Russ
Ahh, yes. The dear Dr. C.L. Usterfook.
Originally uncontent with the Ordinary Sheepshank, he improvised the
Sheepshank with Ends Double Hitched. But the good doctor was unsatiable and
went on to greener pastures with the Interlaced Sheepshank and the
Sheepshank with Middle Crossed. His attempt to woo Marlene Dietrich was
recorded for posterity as the Marline Hitch Sheepshank. He was rebuffed,
alas, and pleading food poisoning, retired in distress to work on the Sheet
Bend Sheepshank. His attempt to research the Granny Knot was met with strong
disapproval by the women of his village, who beat him roundly 'bout the
head, cutting him badly. The good doctor, undeterred, whipped out a Three
Strand Eye-Splice and saved his eyesight.
Although originally daring and prolific, Dr. C.L. Usterfook later faded into
sad obscurity as the mountain village that tolerated his exploits threw
their hands up in disgust at such memorables as the Dog Shank, the Cat
Shank, and the Cow's Hitch. History records his last knot as being the
Seaman's Whipping, which describes the sorry state of his body when found in
a back alley.
--Karl "twisted"
John Myles
It's good to see well written, informative posts in this group.
I also received a usefull response to a question I posted the other day.
Imagine that, and all in one day.
John Faith-restored-in-rec.climbing Myles
jcor...@ball.com
Fish...@aol.com wrote:
> Karl Lew wrote:
> >
> > >Wouldn't you rather hear the story behind the "sheepshank" ? --toed
> >
> > To which there is a sad and sorry sequel, the "cut sheepshank".
> > --Karl
>
> Easiest to tie (even ties itself) and never comes undone. I'm working
> on one right now.....
> adios,
> Russ
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Russ: thanks for the insight, could you tell me what book might have that
knot along with a picture. I have yet to meet anyone who can correctly tie it
time after time, after all if we all knew how to tie it properly it would be
so easy to untie.
Gee all these years I thought it was a spagetti knot or rope salad and
figured that some italian climber invented it possibly N. O. Canuntia
From what I was taght about knot theory a knot is comprised of any
combination of the following, loops, bights, and overhand knots. Every time
I see this one come up it is a series of bights intertwined with loops with
an occaisional twist so in reality it qualifies as a knot. In my experience a
dish rag soft kernmantle rope makes the tightest of this knot, and goldline
and static rope tends to tie these by themselves with no human interaction (
actually saw this happen this summer on an evacuation, a perfect figure
eight)
> Visit our WWW site: http://www.climbnet.com/fish
> Or try this if you are bored:
> http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/Climbing/Quiz/index.html
> http://members.aol.com/fishprods/powerandrubber.html
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Steve Woods
actually introduced us to a knot of his own creation, we could all be
climbing on a "Slime Bend" tomorrow.
Steve
Inez Drixelius wrote:
>
> In article <36952BA3...@fake.fc.hp.com>, byr...@fake.fc.hp.com wrote:
>
> > art...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > > Does anyone know any stories or sources of info about them?
> >
> > Yes. Take your list to a good LIBRARY, dumbshit.
> >
>
> Oh, come on, John, this post enabled me to write something I really
> enjoyed sharing. The fellow isn't a dumbshit for asking here. Why
> shouldn't he?
>
> Jeez! Been out lately Slime?
>
John Byrnes
> In article <36952BA3...@fake.fc.hp.com>, byr...@fake.fc.hp.com wrote:
> > art...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > > Does anyone know any stories or sources of info about them?
> > Yes. Take your list to a good LIBRARY, dumbshit.
>
> Oh, come on, John, this post enabled me to write something I really
> enjoyed sharing. The fellow isn't a dumbshit for asking here. Why
> shouldn't he?
You know me, I have a hard time with people who think r.c is a
substitute for all other resources. People should call a travel
agent to find out about travelling, libraries to get info on
literature, etc. Somehow they just think their computer is the
be-all end-all information source (exceeding personal experience!),
or else they're just too lazy to get up from the keyboard.
>
> Jeez! Been out lately Slime?
Climbing? No. Skiing? Yes, very much so.
- Lord Slime, 2m new in 4 days: "like talking to God"
John Byrnes
>
> Now, if John had channeled his energies in a more positive direction and
> actually introduced us to a knot of his own creation, we could all be
> climbing on a "Slime Bend" tomorrow.
It'd slip.
- Lord Slime, How fast is 90 knots?
John Byrnes
>
> >Wouldn't you rather hear the story behind the "sheepshank" ? --toed
>
> To which there is a sad and sorry sequel, the "cut sheepshank".
> --Karl
Which is followed by the Sheepshank Redemption.
- Lord Slime, "Tickets please!"
Richard MacKenzie
|>
|> You know me, I have a hard time with people who think r.c is a
|> substitute for all other resources. People should call a travel
|> agent to find out about travelling, libraries to get info on
|> literature, etc. Somehow they just think their computer is the
|> be-all end-all information source (exceeding personal experience!),
|> or else they're just too lazy to get up from the keyboard.
|>
But in a way, worse than using r.c. to avoid having to actually get off
their ass and get travel information (e.g.) is using r.c. to (so it seems) get
themselves killed. Examples:
Can someone tell me about Denali? ... I'm a POOR CLIMBER!!! ...
-- If you're a poor climber, and know it, why not set your sights a little
lower... like, say, the tallest peak in Florida, not Alaska?
...or...
Does someone know whether it's better to go to Cho Oyu in the spring or the fall,
and why?
-- If you need to consult r.c. for info on an 8000m peak... well, if there's any
truth to natural selection, I guess we don't have to worry about YOU diluting
the gene pool!
I wonder if people go to rec.medicine and ask for advice about open heart
surgery: when it's necessary, how to perform it, what equipment is needed, etc.
rbmack
Rich Pawlowicz
> In article <36964AE1...@fake.fc.hp.com>, John Byrnes <byr...@fake.fc.hp.com> writes:
> |> You know me, I have a hard time with people who think r.c is a
> |> substitute for all other resources. People should call a travel
So...what is r.c for? Flaming people?
That knot question (or rather the followup answer) seemed to be *exactly* what
what a ng should be about. And (what's more) it was interesting!
(BTW you seem to have a lot more faith in the holdings of public libraries
than is warranted, IMHO).
Rich.
--
Remove XXX from email address.
GeoffCJ
dubious value, What would be the point of the news group if not for
information? Who's to say what is an Ok question or not. Lord slime? I
agree that asking for inof about denali if you're a gumby is silly, but hell,
most of the stuff posted seems Ok. My local library, nor my travle agent would
know the first thing about the access situation in Hueco, or the Raptor
closings at tpinnacles....
my $.02
Geoff
John Byrnes
> ... I guess we don't have to worry about YOU diluting
> the gene pool!
Yes, that's one worry you can dispose of.
>
> I wonder if people go to rec.medicine and ask for advice about open heart
Recreational medicine is mostly illegal in the U.S. these days. ;-)
- Lord Slime - nurse, hand me the pliers.
Mad Dog
>Now, if John had channeled his energies in a more positive
>direction and actually introduced us to a knot of his own
>creation, we could all be climbing on a "Slime Bend" tomorrow.
Slime bend? Isn't that the same thing as a Wrist Shank?
Mad "bend me, baby" Dog
UltimateHi
>
Based on a strictly scientific analysis of posts and the responses to
them......yes.
A common circumstance is seeing some poor newcomer dare to post a question,
in good faith, and get so flamed and abused that they never come back.
If the rest of the climbing community was as 'supportive' and 'encouraging'
as wreck.climbing there would be no community.
Personally I love the humor and the occasional informative posts and
exchanges. It is too bad that it also has to be a forum for personal
abuse/attacks. But then, some of those are funny too. (remember the 'permission
to subscribe' thread?)
Now that I have ventured an opinion, I am sure I am in for an attack. Enjoy
yourselves....
peace
ian
grant
UltimateHi wrote in message
<19990109112901...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>>So...what is r.c for? Flaming people?
(short answer: yes and know)
nutshell: every 2-3 weeks a new newbie posts---gets flamed (un/rightly
so)----feelings are hurt---blasts back at the "indignity and lack of kid
gloves"----- gets flamed some more---- long thread starts on ethics of
flaming---dies out when something actually interesting or more flame-worthy
comes up.... Ho-fecking-hum! G
GeoffCJ
the hidden valley campground sing around 9 on Sat, and around 8 on Sun if
anybody need a partner, or has room for one...I'll be driivng a black
explorer....
=>
Geoff