Climber/belayer weight ratios???
DACampbell
can a lightweight belayer hold a fall by a much heavier climber (on
toprope only), and how much heavier? I'm using a figure 8 mostly, or
sometimes a tuber, for belaying.
Erich M. Ruetsche
>> when I'm leading, and I know many climbers who feel the same way. Please
>> take my advice, and only use the tuber for belaying. Sorry if I'm
>> preaching a bit. :-)
>
>I prefer not to be belayed with an eight, but frankly I'm more
>fearful of the bolts or my protection, than the belay. A much
>more significant consideration is the belayer, not the device.
The belayer makes the difference. I prefer to be belayed with an 8.
It is in my experience the best methode that I get enough slack if I need and
it is a good way to belay dynamically.
Belaying non Dynamically is IMHO the major problem. You will hit the rocke
really hard and hurt you there. (I have my experience)
To belay a somebody who is lighter than you this is a critical issue. My
girlfriend hates to be belayed by a grigri because of that.
good flights
Erich
william hunt
If the belayer is not anchored, but it otherwise safely on good ground
then the belayer can be 2/3 of the weight of the climber (climber is
1.5 times the belay's weight) with little problem. Around half of the
climber's weight is lost in friction at the top rope anchor. I
regularly belay my friend who is 1.28 times my weight and even with a
sloppy belay I never get pulled up more than a few inches.
If the belayer is anchored then the ratio doesn't matter as long a the
belayer can hold on to his brake hand.
Willie Hunt
PS
Don't listen to those others about belaying with a figure-8. Most
figure-8's are very stong and will hold any lead fall.
spin...@etu.univ-compiegne.fr
> They are not designed for shock-loading -- they can handle abseil
> forces, but are not designed to take sudden forces of the type
> you get in a big fall. Admittedly, these are rare when top-roping,
> as long as the belayer is alert, but it is a bad habit to get into.
I tend to agree with you. Generally I use my ATC to belay leaders,
though I do used the 8 for top-rope belaying fairly often. I have
to mention, though, that in Europe, where there are thousands
and thousands of climbers, quite possibly many more than in North
America, and taking many more falls due to the prevalence of
sport climbing, belaying with an 8 is overwhelmingly "the way
it's done." This is often in sport belay mode, not in rappel
mode, which is probably a worse case of loading (as it's not
in the major axis of the 8).
I agree that 8's are for rappeling, and are used for belaying
out of convenience, yet they don't seem to be dying in huge
numbers here due to the belay.
> Personally, I *never* let anybody belay me with a figure-8, especially
> when I'm leading, and I know many climbers who feel the same way. Please
> take my advice, and only use the tuber for belaying. Sorry if I'm
> preaching a bit. :-)
I prefer not to be belayed with an eight, but frankly I'm more
fearful of the bolts or my protection, than the belay. A much
more significant consideration is the belayer, not the device.
My 0.08 french francs.
-Peter Spindloe
Charles Carlson
: On a toprope, a lightweight belayer can belay a much heavier climber if
: the belayer is anchored to something bombproof. Weight is only an issue
: if the belayer is not anchored to anything. Another option, in the
: unlikely event that the belayer weighs 100 pounds and the climber weighs
: 300 pounds, is to belay directly off the anchor (attach your belay device
: to the anchor, and belay the same way you would belay if the device were
: attached to your harness). Note that for the latter method to work, the
: anchor MUST be unquestionably bombproof.
When belaying a toproped climber directly from an anchor, you should also
attach yourself to the belay device as well in case the 'bombproof' anchor
fails.
Another thing to be careful about when belaying directly off the anchor is
that the belay device can be pulled sharply away from you when a fall occurs
if it is not kept in line with the top rope anchor
Chuck Carlson
chu...@crl.com
Berkeley,CA
Barbara McCann
On a toprope, a lightweight belayer can belay a much heavier climber if
the belayer is anchored to something bombproof. Weight is only an issue
if the belayer is not anchored to anything. Another option, in the
unlikely event that the belayer weighs 100 pounds and the climber weighs
300 pounds, is to belay directly off the anchor (attach your belay device
to the anchor, and belay the same way you would belay if the device were
attached to your harness). Note that for the latter method to work, the
anchor MUST be unquestionably bombproof.
Barbara McCann
Rob Parkhill
[munch]
>A warning, though, the first time I belayed someone on a toprope in an indoor
>gym, there wasn't enough friction and I shot up to the top while my partner
>stopped just a few feet short of the floor. Light people should always tie in
>(to a sandbag or something) in cases like this!
I had some real fun with a light climbing partner earlier this year.
I weigh in at 250 pounds, and he weighed in at about 110. If I
happened to take a fall on top-rope at the gym, I would fall and hit
the ground, and he would get yanked up to where I had fallen from.
My fall was slow enough that I didn't get hurt when I hit the ground,
but there was a chance of my partner smacking his head on the ceiling
if I fell from the very top of a climb. We quickly partnered up with
some people closer to our own weight.
Another buddy of mine weighs in at 155 pounds. If I take a fall with
a bit of slack on top-rope on a climb at the gym with only the top biner
providing friction, he will usually come a foot or so off of the ground.
On any other climbs (overhangs and the like with many biners holding
the rope in to the wall) there is no problem with him being pulled off
of his feet.
On real rock, we always set up a bomber ground anchor and tie into that.
And, as for super-light belayers, I was once belayed in a gym by a 13 year
old kid weighing around 80 pounds. He was tied into the floor anchor, and
had no problem holding my fall with an ATC. The worst part is that he was
a much better climber than me :-)
later...
Rob
--
Rob Parkhill, bcst...@bnr.ca | o/\_ | o | \\ // '71 Super Beetle
BNR Ottawa (613) 763 7077 | <\__,\| /\, |\\ \\// // _______________
I will not speak for BNR. I | "> || -|~(*)/| \\//\\// |Just can't wait
will not do it, Sam you are. | : || (*) /-' | \/ \/ |for summer...
Eugene N. Miya
highly suspect but would also fraught with so many assumptions as to be
of marginal value. The so-called "record" for a belay was six falling
guys on K2 in 1953, but that was a steep snow slope and an unusual set
of circumstances. You can give and take points for altitude, type of belay,
type of ropes, etc. Better to have a reasonable anchor.
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
{uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Favorite SNL Character: Candi Slice
A Ref: Uncommon Sense, Alan Cromer, Oxford Univ. Press, 1993.
Dawn Bustanoby
>Barbara McCann (mcc...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>Chuck Carlson
>chu...@crl.com
>Berkeley,CA
I am a 105lb female climber and have been climbing since I was younger and
lighter. I have a climbing partner who weighs nearly twice my weight, and I
have never had any problem belaying him. I have held falls (toprope and leader)without being tied in at the bottom. While I have been pulled off of my feet,
I have yet to be pulled a significant distance up a route. When in doubt, I
always belay from my harness but tie in at the bottom. I prefer to belay
from my harness rather than directly from an anchor; it feels more natural and safer. Don't worry about a lightweight belayer, just be sure that you feel
safe with their method, equiptment, and protection.
A warning, though, the first time I belayed someone on a toprope in an indoor
gym, there wasn't enough friction and I shot up to the top while my partner
stopped just a few feet short of the floor. Light people should always tie in
(to a sandbag or something) in cases like this!
Dawn Bustanoby
daw...@u.wshington.edu
Seattle, WA
Irene Orr
Bustanoby) writes:
> I am a 105lb female climber and have been climbing since I was younger and
> lighter. I have a climbing partner who weighs nearly twice my weight, and I
> have never had any problem belaying him. I have held falls (toprope and leader)without being tied in at the bottom. While I have been pulled off of my feet,
> I have yet to be pulled a significant distance up a route. When in doubt, I
> always belay from my harness but tie in at the bottom. I prefer to belay
> from my harness rather than directly from an anchor; it feels more natural and safer. Don't worry about a lightweight belayer, just be sure that you feel
> safe with their method, equiptment, and protection.
An aquaintance of mine weighs around 110 pounds and regularly belays her partner
who weighs around 200 pounds. She has been pulled off her feet when not anchored,
but has never failed to hold a fall.
In a perfect world, we'd all be belaying off perfectly aligned, bombproof anchors
*and* be able to escape easily from the system in an emergency. Most climbers never
even think of this - I certainly don't bother particularly with escape for single
pitch or easy routes.
Irene
Talen3
(DACampbell) writes:
I am a 13 years old, and always go climbing with my dad on
weekends at Smith. I usually end up belaying him, just as long as I
am clipped into something solid. Aside from a few odd looks from
other climbers, we have experienced no difficulty doing this.
Dan Lehman
differences when top-rope belaying:
arrange the belay as a 2-to-1 advantage pulley (i.e., tie
one end at the top, then run rope through biners on climber
--sorry, no direct tie-in here!--and up through normal
anchor set-up and back to belayer (usually there is plenty
of rope for these short climbs)
rig a particular braking device on the climber's side of
the anchor biners (this is hard to describe: it sort of
collapses when ascending, but has braking effect on a fall
--it's a form of the standard biner rappel brake
---Dan
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