How do you bail off an unfinished sport route?
Philip Hoffman
be too difficult, assuming it's only a 1-pitch route? I'd rather not
leave behind a quick-draw, since they're about $12 apiece, nor do I
want to be lowered off on webbing for obvious (probably deadly)
reasons.
What do you use? Is the cheapest, safest way to use a non-locking
biner?
Andy Gale
Philip Hoffman wrote:
Cheapest and safest are not the same thing. It is pretty standard to
use a single non-locking biner. There are more complicated things you
can do in certain situations if you don't want to leave anything behind.
But I ain't explaining them here. You ought to at least attempt to
evaluate the quality of the bolt you are bailing off.
If you leave behind a quick draw post here immediately and report where
you left it.
Andy
bkr
Bail links...those those screw-locking quick links that you see in
hardware stores. Some climbing places also sell them with rap rings.
Another option is webbing, but rap off instead of being lowered. Takes
more time, but you can clip to the bolt you're at, using a daisy chain
or cows tail, then run the webbing through. After that, just feed the
rope through the webbing carefully and rap. Pull the rope once you
reach the bottom, and you have no worries about burning through the webbing.
You could leave a single biner instead of a quickdraw. If you're going
this route though, you might as well buy some of the quick links.
bkr
steven
just lower off, walk around to the top of the cliff (via an easily
accessible and normal gully/ascent/descent route) and rap down from a
tree and/or thread the top ring bolts and rap that way, cleaning as you go.
This obviously doesn't work as well for overhanging climbs. however, my
climbing partner overcame this problem once. while being lowered off his
top piece he cleaned the rest of the gear except his top quickdraw, then
while abseiling/rapping from above, he jumped outwards at the top of the
overhang, let loose with the rope and by the time he'd fallen far
enough, his inswing allowed him to grab the lonely quickdraw. swishhhh.
-steven-
Chiloe
Quicklinks and webbing on the pro make it worse for the next party,
don't they? Sacrifice your least favorite biner, it's fast and no-
impact. Many climbers bring a "bail biner" or two they wouldn't
much mind losing, should the need arise. The next party will
happily clean them.
bouldematty
> Well, I dunno how you americans climb, but here in Australia we usually
> just lower off, walk around to the top of the cliff (via an easily
> accessible and normal gully/ascent/descent route) and rap down from a
> tree and/or thread the top ring bolts and rap that way, cleaning as you go.
> This obviously doesn't work as well for overhanging climbs. however, my
> climbing partner overcame this problem once. while being lowered off his
> top piece he cleaned the rest of the gear except his top quickdraw, then
> while abseiling/rapping from above, he jumped outwards at the top of the
> overhang, let loose with the rope and by the time he'd fallen far
> enough, his inswing allowed him to grab the lonely quickdraw. swishhhh.
> -steven-
We Americans "Down Climb", or down jump/fall to the last bolt and
clean the last one from the ground. Sounds like a lot of work to hike
around etc etc...
Brent Ware
> Well, I dunno how you americans climb, but here in Australia we
> usually just lower off, walk around to the top of the cliff (via an
> easily accessible and normal gully/ascent/descent route) and rap down
> from a tree and/or thread the top ring bolts and rap that way,
> cleaning as you go.
> This obviously doesn't work as well for overhanging climbs.
It doesn't work well for really overhanging climbs - it can't be done
sometimes.
I've also almost been killed by people thrashing about at the top of
crags where there wasn't good access to the tops of climbs, as they
sent a rain of rocks down onto the folks belaying at the bottom of the
crag, who obviously couldn't move because, well, they were belaying
and climbing. Obviously this isn't always the case, but it's happened
often enough to me that I would ask you to think whether rescuing a
cheap biner (or setting up a TR) is worth killing (or at the least
really annoying) the other climbers at the crag.
-bw
Ryan Pfleger
> We Americans "Down Climb", or down jump/fall to the last bolt and
> clean the last one from the ground. Sounds like a lot of work to hike
> around etc etc...
This might go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. You better make damn
sure of the distance between the second bolt, the first bolt, and the
ground. I don't know about where you climb but I've climbed a number of
routes where your strategy = decking from 25 feet up.
Ryan
Andy Gale
bkr wrote:
> Bail links...those those screw-locking quick links that you see in
> hardware stores. Some climbing places also sell them with rap rings.
>
> Another option is webbing, but rap off instead of being lowered. Takes
> more time, but you can clip to the bolt you're at, using a daisy chain
> or cows tail, then run the webbing through. After that, just feed the
> rope through the webbing carefully and rap. Pull the rope once you
> reach the bottom, and you have no worries about burning through the
> webbing.
leaving a screw-locked quicklink or webbing to block easy access to the
bolt for the next climber to come along is really bad form. Don't do it.
Andy
Fern
If the distance from the bolt you are bailing from to the
ground is less than 1/3rd the length of your rope there is a
method of rappelling from a sling girth hitched to the bolt
and then retrieving the sling itself, leaving no trace of
your failure. I will leave the specifics of this trick as an
exercise to the reader.
->f
Clint Cummins
However, you should double the sling through the bolt, rather than
using a girth hitch. This also applies if you are going to rappel
and not attempt to retrieve the sling. If you leave a doubled sling
behind, the wind may be enough to remove it from the bolt, or
the next climber can simply pull on one end of the sling to remove it
(rather than attempt to loosen a tight girth hitch).
Clint Cummins
Jay Tanzman
Andy Gale wrote:
>
>
> Philip Hoffman wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any advice for bailing on a sport route that turns out to
>> be too difficult, assuming it's only a 1-pitch route? I'd rather not
>> leave behind a quick-draw, since they're about $12 apiece...
>
> If you leave behind a quick draw post here immediately and report where
> you left it.
A $12 quickdraw? That's like two REI ovals joined by kite string.
-Jay
Julie
>
> A $12 quickdraw? That's like two REI ovals joined by kite string.
RCGH '04 ... great visual ;)
JSH
Mad Dog
>Jay Tanzman wrote
>> A $12 quickdraw? That's like two REI ovals joined by kite string.
>RCGH '04 ... great visual ;)
Made me Immediately think of two Omega ovals joined by a G string.
~Boing!~
Scott Grimes
Clips with Butt Floss
--
Cheers,
SMG
Hardman Knott
cl...@Stanford.EDU (Clint Cummins) wrote:
> If you leave a doubled sling
> behind, the wind may be enough to remove it from the bolt, or
> the next climber can simply pull on one end of the sling to remove it
> (rather than attempt to loosen a tight girth hitch).
Wouldn't it be great if anyone actually did this?
Hardman Knott
Lord Slime
> bkr wrote:
> > Bail links...those those screw-locking quick links that you see in
> > hardware stores. Some climbing places also sell them with rap rings.
> >
>
> leaving a screw-locked quicklink or webbing to block easy access to the
> bolt for the next climber to come along is really bad form. Don't do it.
"Bad form" is putting it mildly. I call people who do it Total Fucking
Assholes. So BKR, are you one of them?
- Lord Slime
Tim Stich
on a sport climb is to press on and aid/stick clip your way to the
anchors. Then you can get down the usual way. That's what I did last
time. Even sent down for a stick and some tape to construct the stick
clip.
-Stich
Jay Tanzman
Tim Stich wrote:
> It's been said before, but a lot of the time the best bailing strategy
> on a sport climb is to press on and aid/stick clip your way to the
> anchors.
Brent either does that, or he sends me up.
-Jay
Pieter
This is how I do it, without leaving anything
first of all, you need a bolt you trust 100%
clip your quickdraw in the last bolt you could reach, put the rop in the
quickdraw. Put your lifeline (webbing girth hitched your belayloop of your
harnass and with a biner in the webbing) in the bolt. Now take some rope and
tie it somewhere to your harnass so you won't drop it. Remove the rope from
the quickdraw. Remove the quickdraw (can be difficult as your weight is on
the biner of your lifeline and this biner is pushing down onto the
quickdraw. Now untie yourself, put the rope through the bolt (try to lift
yourself up on a hold if possible, to remove the weight on the biner of your
lifeline. This way you can put the rope under the biner of your lifeline).
Pull the rope so both ends touch the ground or you reach the middle of your
rope. Install your rappel device. Check you rappel device by putting all
your weight onto the rappel and not anymore on your lifeline. Ask your belay
partner to give you a fireman's belay. Remove the biner of your lifeline
(can be difficult if your rope is on top of the biner and thus pushing it
down). Rappel down and take all the gear you left behind. This can be
difficult if the route didn't go straight up, but has traverse parts. To
end. pull your rope through the bolt.
If you know you will bail you can clip your lifeline in the last bolt you
reached instead of a quickdraw first.
I have been lowered instead of rappelled but this isn't so safe. The
advantage of being lowered is that you can easily remove the other
quickdraws. You can stay close to the rope by putting a quickdraw between
the two ropes. So as you are lowered the quickdraw always pulls you towards
the wall and towards the other quickdraws.
Hardman Knott
wrote:
> "Philip Hoffman" <philthe...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > Anyone have any advice for bailing on a sport route that turns out to
> > be too difficult, assuming it's only a 1-pitch route? I'd rather not
> > leave behind a quick-draw, since they're about $12 apiece, nor do I
> > want to be lowered off on webbing for obvious (probably deadly)
> > reasons.
> >
> > What do you use? Is the cheapest, safest way to use a non-locking
> > biner?
>
> This is how I do it, without leaving anything
>
> first of all, you need a bolt you trust 100%
Since I would never bet my life on any single bolt if it was at all
avoidable, including the "bomb-proof" glue-ins I have installed myself,
I read no further. End of story.
Hardman Knott
Will Niccolls
"Pieter" <----@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2jo3gkF...@uni-berlin.de...
[snip other poorly explained ridiculous gyrations]
So you rappel with the rope directly through the bolt hanger?
No thanks.
Just leave a carabiner. Or have your girlfriend finish the route for you.
Or my girlfriend if we're there. And quit getting on routes you can't
finish.
Will Niccolls
Mad Dog
>And quit getting on routes you can't finish.
So you've NEVER bailed on a route, Will?
Mike Garrison
>
> Since I would never bet my life on any single bolt if it was at all
> avoidable,
I've bet my life on less reliable things, when it wasn't
avoidable.
Pieter
> [snip other poorly explained ridiculous gyrations]
haha gyrations
> So you rappel with the rope directly through the bolt hanger?
>
> No thanks.
>
> Just leave a carabiner. Or have your girlfriend finish the route for you.
> Or my girlfriend if we're there. And quit getting on routes you can't
> finish.
>
> Will Niccolls
there's no need to get so verbally aggresive here.
Hardman Knott
Mike Garrison <mike.g...@boeing.com> wrote:
Did you get married?
Hardman Knott
Mike Garrison
>
> > Will Niccolls
>
> there's no need to get so verbally aggresive here.
There's no need for most of Will's posturing, but he does it
anyway.
Will Niccolls
"Mad Dog" <mad6...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:cb78s...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Will Niccolls says...
>
> >And quit getting on routes you can't finish.
>
> So you've NEVER bailed on a route, Will?
I have. I just don't want this guy to do so, if he's going to rap off with
his rope threaded through a hanger.
Will Niccolls
"Mike Garrison" <mike.g...@boeing.com> wrote in message
news:40D75B94...@boeing.com...
> Pieter wrote:
> >
> > > Will Niccolls
> >
> > there's no need to get so verbally aggresive here.
>
> There's no need for most of Will's posturing,
So you're arguing there IS a need for some of it? Sweet!
Mad Dog
>I have. I just don't want this guy to do so, if he's going to rap off with
>his rope threaded through a hanger.
So the problem isn't that he gets on routes he has to bail off of - it's that
he's using a method you disapprove of.