Cliffhanger Review
Garry N Ray
over for the Saturday AM matinee at the local cinema.
What a disappointment. After months and months of writeups in Climbing
and R&I, I sat through 1 3/4 hours of warmed-over Stallonomania (lots of
explosions, blood spattering and bad acting) interspersed with bad
cinematograpy of the Alps and some U.S. areas, and just a few minutes of
actual "climbing." And how improbable that climbing was. John Long must be
seething.
Of course, the bolt gun has been mentioned by others here: it's a "loaded
to go", high powered contraption that shoots a pre-loaded bolt right into
the wall. How Stallone hoped to tie into this bolt is a mystery, since on
its first appearance he was climbing with no pro available, and the rope
(which was being used as a leash by the big, bad, really mean hijackers)
couldn't possibly be tied to the hanger which was an integral part of the
bolt (or so it seemed). Well, at least it was consistent. These folks wore
their racks like fashion accessories. Don't think I ever saw a piece come
off the harness.
No, I did see one. In the first minute of the movie Stallone was placing a
stopper or cam or something while climbing "solo". But had no visible
chest harness or solo belay device -- in fact, he didn't seem to have any
anchor either, so why the pro? I won't be giving the "plot" away if I turn
your attention to the stranded climbers in the opening scene: where are
their racks? Where's their gear? Answer: who cares! This is a Stallone
movie.
I was constantly astonished by the outfitting of the characters: Stallone
and company seemed to prefer lightweight, cotton garments for their alpine
trek, even though they were experienced members of the "mountain rescue
team" who should have known better. At one point, a near-hypothermic
Stallone is offered a cotton sweater by mountain pro Demi Moore to wear
over his sweat-soaked cotton t-shirt. I guess it was the confidence borne
of mountains and mountains of hard packed snow and nary a snowflake to be
seen: I never saw anything more than ankle deep cover in the entire film.
(And the only avalanche was caused by the bad guys shooting their
mortar-guns at a definitely scary serac.)
The only realistic characters were two climbing/paragliding bums
who...well, I'll leave that part out. (Sample lines: "Work! I hate work. I
even hate to *hear* about people who work!" and the new-to-me multipurpose
salutation "Cheesehead").
You had to give the bad guys credit. They were fully equipped with all
sorts of intimidating armaments, like machine guns, mortar-guns, Plastique
and detonators, night vision goggles, and more. This, despite their hairy
arrival in the mountains and the understated seriousness of their
predicament. And, even though they looked and behaved like overdressed
fashion plate urban bad boys, they had no trouble negotiating travel over,
around, and through the wintery mountain landscape. Who needs crampons and
axes?!? Traverse a three-foot wide, snow covered ledge? No problem. They
did steal some Powerbars from the off-season mountain hut, which made me
feel better about the authenticity of the film. I guess that was the extent
of the "technical advice."
There's too much, too wrong to adequately cover here. I'll just note that
the "climbing," for what it's worth, consists of about three minutes of
scenes such as: Stallone doing three foot dynos, solo (lots of these);
Stallone and Demi coming from and going to nowhere on frighteningly
exposed ledges; and Stallone and Demi using ropes but no pro on nasty walls.
In all, Cliffhanger is a laugh-a-minute lesson in improbable--no,
impossible-- climbing adventures. In the real world, these folks wouldn't
have lived through the first hour of their comic-book climbing technique.
Despite the misleading previews, this is not a climbing film, since it
is ridiculous in its depiction of climbing technique. I'd recommend
staying home and renting "K2" or Sean Connery's "Five Days One Summer".
PS - "Five Days" has good acting and great climbing; "K2" had great
climbing and ludicrous acting; "Cliffhanger" does the remarkable by
combining awful acting, a ridiculous plot, and truly scary climbing
misinformation in a tidy little package. I hope no beginners get any
"let's go climbing" ideas from this film.
Peter O'Leary
> PS - "Five Days" has good acting and great climbing; "K2" had great
> climbing and ludicrous acting; "Cliffhanger" does the remarkable by
> combining awful acting, a ridiculous plot, and truly scary climbing
> misinformation in a tidy little package. I hope no beginners get any
> "let's go climbing" ideas from this film.
Go rent The Eiger Sanction. More good climbing and good acting.
-- Caution! Almost insignifigant spoiler follows: --
As for Cliffhanger and beginners, I wouldn't expect a stampede after seeing
the first scene in the movie. Watching a perfectly functional harness unravel
like a ball of yarn should be enough to discourage a few would-be climbers.
The scene made my palms sweat even though I *know* how absurd the
situation leading up the the big fall actually was. Hats off to Gia Phipps,
the lady who took the 400 footer for that scene. I don't remember seeing
her name in the credits.
I think that, in general, Cliffhangers will reinforce the negative stereotype
that climbing is necessarily dangerous and that climbers recklessly endanger
themselves and others. Not good in light of current access concerns e.g.
the restrictions place on climbing in JTree by rangers that don't like and
don't understand climbing.
--
Pete O'Leary * 'That is not it at all,
pe...@netcom.com * That is not what I meant, at all.'
Garry N Ray
from Northern Exposure whose name I can't recall. Point noted. Still an
awful film.
Marc Whitney
gn...@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:
>
>There's too much, too wrong to adequately cover here. I'll just note that
>the "climbing," for what it's worth, consists of about three minutes of
>scenes such as: Stallone doing three foot dynos, solo (lots of these);
>Stallone and Demi coming from and going to nowhere on frighteningly
>exposed ledges; and Stallone and Demi using ropes but no pro on nasty walls.
>
>is ridiculous in its depiction of climbing technique. I'd recommend
>staying home and renting "K2" or Sean Connery's "Five Days One Summer".
>
>climbing and ludicrous acting; "Cliffhanger" does the remarkable by
>combining awful acting, a ridiculous plot, and truly scary climbing
>misinformation in a tidy little package. I hope no beginners get any
>"let's go climbing" ideas from this film.
For my money The Eiger Sanction is still the best movie with
climbing in it. Eastwood may have been on a top rope but at least
do his own climbing!
Eric Hirst
>Cliffhanger stinks.
>Five Days One Summer, Eiger Sanction, and even K2 are better.
I'll add:
"Alive" is a fairly lame movie, but was worth my $1.50 for the shots of the
Bugaboos. The best climbing footage I have ever seen was "La Escoba del Dios,"
a 25 or so minute documentary of the recent ascent of the east face of
Cerro Catedral in Patagonia by Charley Fowler et. al. It was part of the
latest round of the Banff Festival of Mountain Films, and could never be
mistaken for a National Geographic special. Bad weather, spectacular position,
rockfall, bickering, and genuine fear on a real live FA of a 5.10 A4+ grade
VII. See it if you can.
Eric Hirst
er...@u.washington.edu
Bruce Hildenbrand
I would not call "Cliffhanger" an awful film. I took a whole group
of climbers and non-climbers to see the movie and while the dialogue
did seem to detract, the consensus of the group was that the scenery
and the climbing were nothing short of spectacular.
Just like the comments when the movie "K2" came out, yes, you can nit-pick
all the techinical details to death, but on the whole it worked for me
and I enjoyed it as an action adventure movie!
Bruce
ps - I didn't hear anybody poo-pooing the Indiana Jones movies, like
sure, all those heorics by Harrison Ford were totally believable.
To anyone that was somehow offended by the "climbing" scenes in
"Cliffhanger", I would just like to advise them to chill out and
not take their sport(or themselves) too seriously.
Richard J. Szanto
In a previous article, gn...@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) says:
>Stallone is offered a cotton sweater by mountain pro Demi Moore to wear
Minor point, it's Janine Turnrer from Northern Exposure, not Demi Moore.
Anyway, that aside. I loved the movie. No flames, please. What did
you think it was going to be, a realistic climbing documentary ?
Come on, at $60 million they don't care what climbers think, they want
to please the shoot 'em up crowd. And the film wasn't bad for that.
I loved the film because I took it for what it was, a fantasy. Lighten
up. The realistic movies are rarely blockbusters. Yes, I love
Sean Connery and I loved K2, but those aren't blockbusters.
Just my opinion. No flames please, I just had to say something because
it sounded like everyone was expecting two hours of placing pro,
belaying, taking up slack, raps, etc. That's not what the rest of
the world wants !
P.S. Anybody know where I can get one of those Semi-Automatic Bolting Guns ?
At least Cliffhanger introduced this new wonderful product to me,
I had no idea they even existed ! :)
--
-Rick Szanto
-Polk Speakers Rock -Computer Engineer
-Mac's Suck (Nothing Personal) -Case Western
-Zeta Psi Rules -Reserve University
Elmar Stefke
>
>Just my opinion. No flames please, I just had to say something because
>it sounded like everyone was expecting two hours of placing pro,
>belaying, taking up slack, raps, etc. That's not what the rest of
>the world wants !
>
Just my opinion (and not a flame). Considering this was a Hollywood movie,
I think that few people expected a documentary type film with two hours of
placing pro, belaying etc.
However, what I expected was some reality in the climbing scenes that were
filmed. This could have easily been done without taking ANYTHING away from
the spectacular and crowd pleasing. The reason I expected that was mainly
because of the climbing crew hired by the film producers. I quess the likes
of Guellich and Kauk didn't have much input or didn't care about the gross
distortion of climbing in every facet of its being.
E.Stefke
Eugene N. Miya
to rec.arts.movies.reviews.
In article <C7t4D...@world.std.com> gn...@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:
>Missed the Access Fund benefit here in Boston on Thursday, so I traipsed
>over for the Saturday AM matinee at the local cinema.
>
>What a disappointment. After months and months of writeups in Climbing
>and R&I, I sat through 1 3/4 hours of warmed-over Stallonomania (lots of
>explosions, blood spattering and bad acting) interspersed with bad
>cinematograpy of the Alps and some U.S. areas, and just a few minutes of
>actual "climbing." And how improbable that climbing was. John Long must be
>seething.
Personally, I didn't think it was that bad, even pleasantly surprised
(the thing between the jets wasn't bad, but that's not climbing.)
I think John is probably crossing his fingers and counting his points
(percentage of gross). This is a comment and not an editing suggestion.
>Of course, the bolt gun has been mentioned by others here: it's a "loaded
>to go", high powered contraption that shoots a pre-loaded bolt right into
>the wall. How Stallone hoped to tie into this bolt is a mystery, since on
>its first appearance he was climbing with no pro available, and the rope
>(which was being used as a leash by the big, bad, really mean hijackers)
>couldn't possibly be tied to the hanger which was an integral part of the
>bolt (or so it seemed). Well, at least it was consistent. These folks wore
>their racks like fashion accessories. Don't think I ever saw a piece come
>off the harness.
Let see he places a pin, a Chouinard Lost Arrow(tm) at the start of the film.
But generally we never saw a stopper or a friend (which appaered in a
Bond film).
>No, I did see one. In the first minute of the movie Stallone was placing a
>stopper or cam or something while climbing "solo". But had no visible
>chest harness or solo belay device -- in fact, he didn't seem to have any
>anchor either, so why the pro? I won't be giving the "plot" away if I turn
>your attention to the stranded climbers in the opening scene: where are
>their racks? Where's their gear? Answer: who cares! This is a Stallone
>movie.
Probably a good observation.
>I was constantly astonished by the outfitting of the characters: Stallone
>and company seemed to prefer lightweight, cotton garments for their alpine
>trek, even though they were experienced members of the "mountain rescue
>team" who should have known better. At one point, a near-hypothermic
>Stallone is offered a cotton sweater by mountain pro Demi Moore to wear
>over his sweat-soaked cotton t-shirt. I guess it was the confidence borne
>of mountains and mountains of hard packed snow and nary a snowflake to be
>seen: I never saw anything more than ankle deep cover in the entire film.
>(And the only avalanche was caused by the bad guys shooting their
>mortar-guns at a definitely scary serac.)
Editing:
Janine Turner, not Demi Moore (now if Bruce Willis had been in this film....)
s/mortar gun/grenade launcher/
s/serac/cornice/
This is a good observation because of the possibility of hypothermia in
naive viewers who "go off and do."
>The only realistic characters were two climbing/paragliding bums
>who...well, I'll leave that part out. (Sample lines: "Work! I hate work. I
>even hate to *hear* about people who work!" and the new-to-me multipurpose
>salutation "Cheesehead").
You know, I really like those guys. They seemed like real Valley bums.
They should have played these two rescuers.
>You had to give the bad guys credit. They were fully equipped with all
>sorts of intimidating armaments, like machine guns, mortar-guns, Plastique
>and detonators, night vision goggles, and more. This, despite their hairy
>arrival in the mountains and the understated seriousness of their
>predicament. And, even though they looked and behaved like overdressed
>fashion plate urban bad boys, they had no trouble negotiating travel over,
>around, and through the wintery mountain landscape. Who needs crampons and
>axes?!? Traverse a three-foot wide, snow covered ledge? No problem. They
>did steal some Powerbars from the off-season mountain hut, which made me
>feel better about the authenticity of the film. I guess that was the extent
>of the "technical advice."
>
>There's too much, too wrong to adequately cover here. I'll just note that
>the "climbing," for what it's worth, consists of about three minutes of
>scenes such as: Stallone doing three foot dynos, solo (lots of these);
>Stallone and Demi coming from and going to nowhere on frighteningly
>exposed ledges; and Stallone and Demi using ropes but no pro on nasty walls.
s/Demi/Janine/
>In all, Cliffhanger is a laugh-a-minute lesson in improbable--no,
>impossible-- climbing adventures. In the real world, these folks wouldn't
>have lived through the first hour of their comic-book climbing technique.
One suggestion is to read Angels of Light and realize how close this
really was to real life.
>Despite the misleading previews, this is not a climbing film, since it
>is ridiculous in its depiction of climbing technique. I'd recommend
>staying home and renting "K2" or Sean Connery's "Five Days One Summer".
I didn't think they said that it was.
>PS - "Five Days" has good acting and great climbing; "K2" had great
>climbing and ludicrous acting; "Cliffhanger" does the remarkable by
>combining awful acting, a ridiculous plot, and truly scary climbing
>misinformation in a tidy little package. I hope no beginners get any
>"let's go climbing" ideas from this film.
Now this is a real issue! You have me steamed up. Ever see any of
Connery's other decent (campy) Bond films? Do No? Goldfinger? Five Days
a good climbing movie? I'd even take the climbing scenes from one of
the Roger Moore Bonds (with Sylvester) over Five Days... Gary, I thought you
had better taste than that? Old dude trimuphs over young dude to
reluctantly win back young wife?.... Naw... I agree on both cases, rent
from the video store. K2, slightly better than average.
Neither of these is a climbing "The River Runs Throught It."
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
{uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Eugene N. Miya
>Go rent The Eiger Sanction. More good climbing and good acting.
Interesting climbing. Bad acting. Can't take an actor with pink eyes
talking to Clint Eastwood seriously as good acting. Better than the
video-store climbing-scenes, see this on in a revival theater for
the climbing scenes.
>I think that, in general, Cliffhangers will reinforce the negative stereotype
>that climbing is necessarily dangerous and that climbers recklessly endanger
>themselves and others. Not good in light of current access concerns e.g.
>the restrictions place on climbing in JTree by rangers that don't like and
>don't understand climbing.
It is dangerous. Like the one charcter said, Gravity is a bitch.
I give the Rangers a bit more credit than that: they realize when they are
watching a movie. Most of them.
Vannevar Yu
>In article <C7t4D...@world.std.com>gn...@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:
>>The only realistic characters were two climbing/paragliding bums
>>who...well, I'll leave that part out. (Sample lines: "Work! I hate work. I
>>even hate to *hear* about people who work!" and the new-to-me multipurpose
>>salutation "Cheesehead").
>You know, I really like those guys. They seemed like real Valley bums.
>They should have played these two rescuers.
[...]
For the record, these were two climbing/{parachutists|skydivers|BASE jumpers},
not paragliding bums. I enjoyed the scenes with them, even if there were two
improbabilities:
1. The first part where both jump, then talk to each other in freefall without
missing a beat ... you'd have to practically yell to get anything through
the (relative) wind;
2. Second part where bum #1 gets shot and bum #2 runs towards the edge; bum #2
didn't have his gear on and would need to *pause* to put his leg straps on,
which can be time consuming and would most certainly have cost him his life
while doing so. Scene where he lands on a tree shows that his leg straps
are on (although in a weird enough position to suggest damage to the
family jewels).
cheers!
Vannevar
--
* #include<std_disclaimer.h> * New York City, NY * go%grep a life *
* "Vannevar Yu" is at vann...@panix.com *
Paul Gauthier
>At base you might consider posting this review (after editorial changes)
>to rec.arts.movies.reviews.
>Let see he places a pin, a Chouinard Lost Arrow(tm) at the start of the film.
>But generally we never saw a stopper or a friend (which appaered in a
>Bond film).
Actually, I thought I caught a glimpse of a friend when the party was
walking along the ledge just before Gabe climbs up for the first bag.
It looks like Gabe is carrying it in his right hand and is about to
place it in a pocket in the rock face in front of him. But it was a _really_
fast glimpse as the camera cuts to the bad guys right then and Gabe is
distracted and doesn't finish whatever he was about to do.
PG
--
===========================================================================
Paul Gauthier
cyclist, rock climber, skydiver, computer scientist (...in order of danger)
Electronic: gaut...@ug.cs.dal.ca Voice: (902)423-0089 Fax: (902)420-1675
Marc Whitney
eug...@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>Let see he places a pin, a Chouinard Lost Arrow(tm) at the start of the film.
>But generally we never saw a stopper or a friend (which appaered in a
>Bond film).
The Bond film also had the bit about prusiking with one's shoelaces!
This is something that, I understand, once happened in "real-life"
to some big name climber.
>
>Now this is a real issue! You have me steamed up. Ever see any of
>Connery's other decent (campy) Bond films? Do No? Goldfinger? Five Days
>a good climbing movie? I'd even take the climbing scenes from one of
>the Roger Moore Bonds (with Sylvester) over Five Days... Gary, I thought you
>had better taste than that? Old dude trimuphs over young dude
to...
HEY, WATCHIT! Some of "old dudes" do OK!
Richard J. Szanto
In a previous article, el...@ocf.berkeley.edu (Elmar Stefke) says:
>However, what I expected was some reality in the climbing scenes that were
>filmed. This could have easily been done without taking ANYTHING away from
>the spectacular and crowd pleasing. The reason I expected that was mainly
>because of the climbing crew hired by the film producers. I quess the likes
>of Guellich and Kauk didn't have much input or didn't care about the gross
>distortion of climbing in every facet of its being.
>
Yeah, I love it. "Climbing Advisors" I wonder how many realistic
scenes promoted by the real climbers in the film ended up on the
cutting room floor. Whenever technical advisors are used, that's
usually the way it works. Do what they say and don't piss them off
in the field......Hollywood always gets them back with two months of
slick butchering....I mean editing.
David Bonn
_Cliffhanger_ safety information:
Don't climb with someone on the first date. (Unless you are Ray Genet, and
he's dead. Ref _Minus 148_ by Art Davidson).
Climbing equipment may fail at inconvenient times.
Make sure your gloves are tight. Super-glue might help.
Since the tragedy in the Andes (see the book and movie _Alive_), all aircraft
are outfitted with extensive outdoor survival gear, including swami belts,
rappel devices, and explosives.
Don't discharge a weapon at a cornice directly above you.
Self arrest with your face doesn't work. Use someone else's face.
Some climbing routes go through the interior of mountains. These are sheltered
from the weather and can be faster.
Don't replace that old rope. Just tie it back together and go climbing.
Bridges are dangerous.
Don't try to body-slam someone with your helicopter.
--
David Bonn "the fast ones always ride for free"
bo...@networx.com
John Byrnes
>
> >Go rent The Eiger Sanction. More good climbing and good acting.
>
> Interesting climbing. Bad acting. Can't take an actor with pink eyes
> talking to Clint Eastwood seriously as good acting.
Aw com'on Eugene, Miles Mellow was an albino! But seriously, for all you
videoheads, try reading the book. If you want real climbing, the book is
much, much better than the movie, and better in general.
Travanian (the author) has a lot of fun in the book, with characters with
names like Miles', Mrs. Cerberus (an attack secretary) and my favorite,
Yurasis Dragon. :-)
> -Rick Szanto
> -Polk Speakers Rock -Computer Engineer
> -Mac's Suck (Nothing Personal) -Case Western
> -Zeta Psi Rules -Reserve University
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What's this?? A method for maximum self-inflation?
John
Eugene N. Miya
(Richard J. Szanto) writes:
>in the field......Hollywood always gets them back with two months of
>slick butchering....I mean editing.
A typical use:shoot ratio is easily 1:10. You are lucky if you get 1:3.
Depends on the type of film (documentaries can be easier, fiction harder).
I do not envy editors, but a good one can make the difference in a film.
Better to get it right the first time (which is usually never).
Eugene N. Miya
(John Byrnes) writes:
>Just a couple comments... :-)
Of course! 8^)
>> >Go rent The Eiger Sanction. More good climbing and good acting.
>>
>> Interesting climbing. Bad acting. Can't take an actor with pink eyes
>> talking to Clint Eastwood seriously as good acting.
>
>Aw com'on Eugene, Miles Mellow was an albino! But seriously, for all you
>videoheads, try reading the book. If you want real climbing, the book is
>much, much better than the movie, and better in general.
>
>Travanian (the author) has a lot of fun in the book, with characters with
>names like Miles', Mrs. Cerberus (an attack secretary) and my favorite,
>Yurasis Dragon. :-)
Naw, I don't take issue with the book. It's one of those B pot boiler spy
novels. He clearly made money on it and its successor [which I was asked
to read in Grad School].
I want to repeat: I recommend seeing the film (VCRs are a great invention
in many ways [mute, fast forward, search, replay, etc.]). You want to watch
bad films to appreciate good ones. Naw, Garry didn't have a smiley to
indicate his saracasm to the acting. Lawrence of Arabia {Gone with the Wind}
or even A River Runs Through It: it's not.
My college roomie Chris once asked the question whether it was possible to
make a feature length climbing film (fiction) where no one dies, no one falls,
etc. yet keeps an audience interested (not necessarily always on its edge).
We both think the answer to that is no. [He was a Lawrence-fan (David Lean
as director), also Jaw, A.N. etc.] Yeah, read the book.
Real life is far more interesting.
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
{uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
And I tell you, if you have the desire for knowledge and the
power to give it physical expression, go out and explore. If you are a
brave man, you will do nothing: if you are fearful you may do much, for
none but cowards have the need to prove their bravery. Some will tell
you that you are mad, and nearly all will say, 'What is the use?' For
we are a nation of shopkeepers, and no shopkeeper will look at research
which will not promise him a financial return within a year. And so you
will sledge nearly alone, but those with whom you sledge will not be
shopkeepers: that is worth a good deal.
-- Apsley Cherry-Garrard, 1922
p...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> (Richard J. Szanto) writes:
>in the field......Hollywood always gets them back with two months of
>slick butchering....I mean editing.
>
but that may have been an edited in background). The interviewer asked if
he followed the advice of the professional climbers that he had used. He
answered, "Absolutely," then proceded to tell how he used their advice to
make every stunt as spectacular and at the same time safe as possible.
It appears the idea of using their advice to make the film believable was
virtually unimaginable to him. The professional climbers were there to
keep the rest of the cast and crew alive.
Phil Sidel