Best way to untwist a rope?
nu...@granite.invalid
mountaineering coil and converts it into a mess of twisted spaghetti.
Flaked it a few times in later climbs, taking out a few twists each
time, but it still twists a lot nore than it did originally. What is
the best way to restore it to the original twist-free state?
Thanks,
N
Dingus Milktoast
rapping the full length of the rope (doubled is fine) through an
atc-style rap device, taking care to insure the strands are straight
going in and coming out (inline as it were). I If rope is doubled I
keep a finger between the strands on the brake side. I also 'catch' the
twists as they come up and try to rotate the free hanging rope to
unwind it. As I descend closer to the end of the rope, the more the
twists impede progress, just like they do on belay. With the free
hanging rope (it can be on a slab too and the ends can be laying on the
ground, but free hanging seems best) its easy to just spin it to unwind
it.
When I get to the ground, I pull any remaining rope through the rap
device too. This seems important, as it gets the last 5 or 10 twists
out of the end that way.
For a badly twisted rope you may have to do this 2 or more times.
Lastly, yup a mountaineers coil will royally fuck a rope imo. But some
people simply have rope twisting belay habits and twist it every time
they use it.
DMT
A. Cairns
nu...@granite.invalid wrote:
Steering away from a topological demonstration, the "best" way to
untwist a rope is to find a place in the Vermont woods cleared 20-30
years ago for ganja farming, now in poplar, birch, and hay-scented fern,
and start walking through the area in the noonday sun pulling one end of
the rope and letting the rest of the rope trail behind being gently
stroked where it zig zags among the boles.
Peace,
Andy Cairns
Hal Murray
>Steering away from a topological demonstration, the "best" way to
>untwist a rope is to find a place in the Vermont woods cleared 20-30
>years ago for ganja farming, now in poplar, birch, and hay-scented fern,
>and start walking through the area in the noonday sun pulling one end of
>the rope and letting the rest of the rope trail behind being gently
>stroked where it zig zags among the boles.
If you don't have a recycled Vermont woods handy, a large chunk of
grass works reasonably well. Got a park handy? Maybe the edge of
a ball field.
--
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Eugene Miya
<nu...@granite.invalid> wrote:
>New rope, second climb, partner coils it with a
You are a climber right?
Go up a climb, preferably a steep one.
Lower the rope, ideally vertically (overhang might be useful).
Let the twists untwist themselves.
Coil up onto a spool. Head home.
--
rgold
Eugene Miya wrote:
> Go up a climb, preferably a steep one.
> Lower the rope, ideally vertically (overhang might be useful).
> Let the twists untwist themselves.
> Coil up onto a spool. Head home.
This reminds me of a moment from my guiding days. I had just sheparded
three high-school students up, I think, Beginer's Delight in the Gunks.
We were coiling the ropes at the top, and one of the students was
struggling with a kinked rope. So, just as Eugene suggested, I said,
"It'll unkink easier if you throw it over the edge."
The kid threw the entire rope off the cliff.
I stood there with my mouth open, no sound emerging, thinking: he did
do exactly what I told him to do...
The rope went about halfway down the cliff and hung itself up on every
available flake, twig, and bush. The kid looked down at now
inaccessible but nicely draped rope, turned slowly to look at me (my
mouth still agape in disbelief) and said,
"That wasn't what you meant, was it?"
Heading home involved a detour that day.
Paulina
:) Nice one! I guess you were lucky there's a walk-off.
Cheers
Paulina
John Sindell
> Heading home involved a detour that day.
To dispose of the kid's body, to get the rope, or to get down without
being able to rappel?
Ed Huesers
> "It'll unkink easier if you throw it over the edge."
>
> The kid threw the entire rope off the cliff.
That'll put a whole new meaning into hearing "ROPE" from above.
Ed Huesers
Http://www.grandshelters.com
nu...@granite.invalid
wrote:
>I have no idea what way may be best, but I've had some success with
>rapping the full length of the rope (doubled is fine) through an
>atc-style rap device, ....
>When I get to the ground, I pull any remaining rope through the rap
>device too. This seems important, as it gets the last 5 or 10 twists
>out of the end that way.
When I was flaking to get out the tangles, the ends seemed to
'accumulate' twists. Seems to store them up for the end.
>For a badly twisted rope you may have to do this 2 or more times.
Might be.
>Lastly, yup a mountaineers coil will royally fuck a rope imo.
I wonder why people do that.
Thanks for the good ideas. I'll try it.
N
nu...@granite.invalid
wrote:
>Steering away from a topological demonstration, the "best" way to
>untwist a rope is to find a place in the Vermont woods cleared 20-30
>years ago for ganja farming, now in poplar, birch, and hay-scented fern,
>and start walking through the area in the noonday sun pulling one end of
>the rope and letting the rest of the rope trail behind being gently
>stroked where it zig zags among the boles.
Nice technique.
Might end up with a nice smelling rope too. :-)
Sound sgood enough to do without the rope.
Nearby are city streets though. No telling what would end up on the
rope if I dragged it around the city. And there would be all those
strange looks too. If you don't like people stepping on the rope, just
what would a car tire do? NOTa good place for this technique.
Thanks,
N
David Kastrup
If "mountaineers coil" is supposed to be a unidirectional coiling
(instead of alternating one loop left, one loop right), there is one
good reason to do that: before throwing rope down (giving it impetus
forward and out), one strand at a time. This uncoils quite cleaner
and with less chance of tangling than the usual double coil.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
nu...@granite.invalid
Murray) wrote:
>
>>Steering away from a topological demonstration, the "best" way to
>>untwist a rope is to find a place in the Vermont woods cleared 20-30
>>years ago for ganja farming, now in poplar, birch, and hay-scented fern,
>>and start walking through the area in the noonday sun pulling one end of
>>the rope and letting the rest of the rope trail behind being gently
>>stroked where it zig zags among the boles.
>
>If you don't have a recycled Vermont woods handy, a large chunk of
>grass works reasonably well. Got a park handy? Maybe the edge of
>a ball field.
I do have a nearby park. Downside is that it is largely a 'dog park'
where lots of people bring their pets to 'play.' Woudn't want to drag
my rope through there.
Probably get strange looks there too. :-)
Thanks,
N
nu...@granite.invalid
wrote:
>In article <6uasb218r2kl28jl9...@4ax.com>,
> <nu...@granite.invalid> wrote:
>>New rope, second climb, partner coils it with a
>>mountaineering coil and converts it into a mess of twisted spaghetti.
>>Flaked it a few times in later climbs, taking out a few twists each
>>time, but it still twists a lot nore than it did originally. What is
>>the best way to restore it to the original twist-free state?
>
>You are a climber right?
Yup.
>Go up a climb, preferably a steep one.
>Lower the rope, ideally vertically (overhang might be useful).
>Let the twists untwist themselves.
>Coil up onto a spool. Head home.
A good approach. Maybe even bring two ropes, let the new one untwist,
and rap down [ATC only, no fig 8] to help get rid of any remaining
twist. Perhaps the rope stretching might help to untwist anything that
might have been 'set' by storage in a kinked state.
Good idea - thanks.
N
nu...@granite.invalid
>"That wasn't what you meant, was it?"
>
>Heading home involved a detour that day.
Soooooo funny. :-)))
N
nu...@granite.invalid
Makes sense, perhaps because it might be more compact and uniform. The
alternate method can produce a rather large 'glob' of rope. Also, to
make it work well, would you need to be careful to add new coils to
the same end of the stack? If you add coils alternately to each 'side'
of the stack, wouldn't that make it less likely to uncoil well? In
other words, does this work well because the rope is 'stacked' better?
Tangling might be a bit different from twisting. Would it be correct
to describe it as follows? Coil the rope, putting in a twist while
coiling. Throw it, expecting the twists to come out when the rope is
fully extended. But, if the rope lands on a non-vertical surface and
not an overhang, might there be some twisting still in the rope even
though there are no tangles?
You bring up an interesting point.
N
David Kastrup
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:07:51 +0200, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>nu...@granite.invalid writes:
>>
>>> On 19 Jul 2006 08:37:26 -0700, "Dingus Milktoast" <oldc...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Lastly, yup a mountaineers coil will royally fuck a rope imo.
>>>
>>> I wonder why people do that.
>>
>>If "mountaineers coil" is supposed to be a unidirectional coiling
>>(instead of alternating one loop left, one loop right), there is one
>>good reason to do that: before throwing rope down (giving it impetus
>>forward and out), one strand at a time. This uncoils quite cleaner
>>and with less chance of tangling than the usual double coil.
>
> Makes sense, perhaps because it might be more compact and
> uniform.
I think that it is just because the coil as a whole can unroll all in
one direction, and the throw itself can give the roll an initial
start.
> The alternate method can produce a rather large 'glob' of rope.
> Also, to make it work well, would you need to be careful to add new
> coils to the same end of the stack?
Uh, I don't need to be _careful_ to do that. I'd have to do something
purposefully to _not_ have it happen.
> If you add coils alternately to each 'side' of the stack, wouldn't
> that make it less likely to uncoil well?
Maybe. Does not appear attractive enough to me to ever have tried.
> Tangling might be a bit different from twisting. Would it be correct
> to describe it as follows? Coil the rope, putting in a twist while
> coiling. Throw it, expecting the twists to come out when the rope is
> fully extended. But, if the rope lands on a non-vertical surface and
> not an overhang, might there be some twisting still in the rope even
> though there are no tangles?
Haven't kept statistics.
nu...@granite.invalid
>nu...@granite.invalid writes:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:07:51 +0200, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>>>nu...@granite.invalid writes:
>>>
>>>> On 19 Jul 2006 08:37:26 -0700, "Dingus Milktoast" <oldc...@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Lastly, yup a mountaineers coil will royally fuck a rope imo.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why people do that.
>>>
>>>If "mountaineers coil" is supposed to be a unidirectional coiling
>>>(instead of alternating one loop left, one loop right), there is one
>>>good reason to do that: before throwing rope down (giving it impetus
>>>forward and out), one strand at a time. This uncoils quite cleaner
>>>and with less chance of tangling than the usual double coil.
>>
>> Makes sense, perhaps because it might be more compact and
>> uniform.
>
>I think that it is just because the coil as a whole can unroll all in
>one direction, and the throw itself can give the roll an initial
>start.
Makes sense. Seems to fit my experience too.
>> The alternate method can produce a rather large 'glob' of rope.
>> Also, to make it work well, would you need to be careful to add new
>> coils to the same end of the stack?
>
>Uh, I don't need to be _careful_ to do that. I'd have to do something
>purposefully to _not_ have it happen.
Agreed - I wasn't thinking of 'careful' in that way. Just suggesting
the need to keep it stacked well, which most of do naturally, I would
guess.
>> If you add coils alternately to each 'side' of the stack, wouldn't
>> that make it less likely to uncoil well?
>
>Maybe. Does not appear attractive enough to me to ever have tried.
I wouldn't either, except as a possible experiment.
>> Tangling might be a bit different from twisting. Would it be correct
>> to describe it as follows? Coil the rope, putting in a twist while
>> coiling. Throw it, expecting the twists to come out when the rope is
>> fully extended. But, if the rope lands on a non-vertical surface and
>> not an overhang, might there be some twisting still in the rope even
>> though there are no tangles?
>
>Haven't kept statistics.
True. Might pay a bit more attention after having this discussion..
Thanks,
N
Eugene Miya
<nu...@granite.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:23:25 +0200, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>>nu...@granite.invalid writes:
>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:07:51 +0200, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>>>>nu...@granite.invalid writes:
>>>>> On 19 Jul 2006 08:37:26 -0700, "Dingus Milktoast" <oldc...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>Lastly, yup a mountaineers coil will royally fuck a rope imo.
>>>>> I wonder why people do that.
I don't have problems. And I don't unflake the rope, but it take a few
years to coil this way along with trying Skein coils (which some
partners argue takes 1/2 the time) and other systems.
If you have problems try a figure-8 coil whipping the intersection
and you can carry on your back by simply inserting your arms in each of
the loops.
I prefer either because I want to inspection feel the entire length
after a climb (over Skein coiling).
>>>>If "mountaineers coil" is supposed to be a unidirectional coiling
...
--
Mad Dog
>Steering away from a topological demonstration, the "best" way to
>untwist a rope is to find a place in the Vermont woods cleared 20-30
>years ago for ganja farming, now in poplar, birch, and hay-scented fern,
>and start walking through the area in the noonday sun pulling one end of
>the rope and letting the rest of the rope trail behind being gently
>stroked where it zig zags among the boles.
Jeez, I go away a couple of weeks and you guys get stoned and drag a rope
through the trees. No, to untwist your rope, just let her lick on it a bit.
nu...@granite.invalid
wrote:
>I don't have problems. And I don't unflake the rope, but it take a few
>years to coil this way along with trying Skein coils (which some
>partners argue takes 1/2 the time) and other systems.
>If you have problems try a figure-8 coil whipping the intersection
>and you can carry on your back by simply inserting your arms in each of
>the loops.
Turned out the best results were vertical ATC raps, with some shakes
of the rope on the way down.
I tried and like the figure-8 coil, but didn't like the carry with the
arms through. In addition to the whip of the crossover, I left some
extra rope and brought the rope ends through the two loops and whipped
the two loops together. You can then carry it on the back with the
ropes over the shoulders, backpack style. It's neater and more compact
than the usual butterfly coil, and keeps the flake reasonably intact.
Thanks,
N