Squamish - Banana Peel comments
Ian Fisher
Some time ago there was a thread on this group of good, moderate
routes around Squamish, BC. I remember at the time there were some
disparaging remarks for Banana Peel (5.7, 7 pitches) on the Apron of
The Chief. My partner and I, having already done Deidre (5.7) and
Snake (5.9) on the Apron, decided to give it a shot yesterday.
Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre and more
intimidating than Snake to some degree because of the near-total
absence of protection placements on the hardest pitches. There are a
couple of bolts and one fixed piton in the most necessary locations
but the protection on the rather run-out slab pitches is quite
minimal. Most belays are from secure trees, although that at the
bottom of the final pitch must be done using climber-provided
equipment. Patches of rock on the route tend to be quite polished and
so offer poor-footing but these can generally be avoided.
BTW, there were several groups on Deidre when we arrived (9:30 on a
weekday morning). We had given consideration to doing Deirdre instead
but, given the congestion, decided to do a new climb instead. By the
time we had traversed over to Banana Peel and climbed to the top, we
had passed two of the parties already on Deirdre when we started. No
doubt the lack of time spent placing and removing pro on Banana Peel
was a factor in this!
------------
Ian Fisher ifi...@unixg.ubc.ca Transport 2000 British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada Visit the Transport 2000 BC Web Site:
Telephone/Fax: (604)681-3192 http://www.vcn.bc.ca/t2000bc/
Dave Whitehead
I have done banana peel many times, often to avoid the crowds on Diedre
(which is a better climb, a classic really). Banana Peel is definitely not
for the faint of heart, but it does allow you to carry a very light rack.
I don't remember there being any pro at all on a couple of the easier
pitches. However, I disagree that it is more intimidating than Snake,
which has numerous runouts and pointy things to fall onto.
If you like Banana Peel you'll love the runouts on Slab Alley or Bran Flakes.
In article <4pskmr$s...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, ifi...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ian Fisher)
wrote:
Eric Hirst
ifi...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ian Fisher) writes:
>Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre and more
>intimidating than Snake to some degree because of the near-total
>absence of protection placements on the hardest pitches. There are a
You may have been off-route. There is an unprotected sucker variation
early on which turns out to be 5.8, with the more tenuous moves up
high. The upper pitches are also run out, but not particularly hard
or tricky.
I was fortunate enough to be following when we accidently took
the sucker variation, a rightward angling slabby groove to a bushy
area, on about the 2nd pitch.
--
Eric Hirst
er...@u.washington.edu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~eric/
Dave Whitehead
This sandbag didn't by any chance have a totally rusted out 1/4" bolt and
hanger on it did it. On Banana Peel, If you find pro you're in the wrong
place ;)
In article <4pspen$4...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, er...@u.washington.edu
Ian Fisher
er...@u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) wrote:
>You may have been off-route. There is an unprotected sucker variation
>early on which turns out to be 5.8, with the more tenuous moves up
>high. The upper pitches are also run out, but not particularly hard
>or tricky.
No, we were on the correct route as it matched the guidebook photo and
description quite perfectly. The upper pitches are run-out but you
could protect them fairly generously if you wanted as there are
cracks. One of the flakes is very hollow so avoid that one for pro!
The undulating, slab pitches lower down are the trickiest ones
(pitches 2 and 4 if you count from where you leave the traverse from
Diedre, pitches 1 and 3 being very short). There is a bolt in the
middle of the first slab of pitch 2 and another at the start of the
slab traverse of pitch 4. Both bolts appeared quite sound.
For its grade, Banana Peel is pretty intimidating with the run-out
sections being quite long. Snake is less consistent with the two 5.9
traverses (#1: small holds on face above large boulders, #2 the
rightward traverse below the face at the top of pitch 6) being the
most exciting but relatively short.
Pete Hurd
Spoiler - excessive beta follows.
Ian Fisher wrote:
> Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre and more
I disagree, I found diedre to be much scarier, especially if you get
off route on the frictony traverse to the big wait-your-turn ledge.
This memory may have been due to SLCDless rack :-) And the fact that
after my first time up diedre was followed by some climb whose name
escapes me but was indeed distinguished by a "head spinning runout"
(which I did not lead, but instincively thought "shit, I'd hate to have
to climb up that!" when looking down from the bolted anchor at the end
of the first pitch).
> There are a
> couple of bolts and one fixed piton in the most necessary locations
The first time I went up diedre there was one bolt and two pins, all
on the crux "waves" pitch (a lesson in rope drag for this novice
leader). My next two visits ran across one bolt and one pin onely.
(The one that walked off was in the horizontal crack above the corner
on the waves pitch.
I'm bummed to learn that there are now more.
> but the protection on the rather run-out slab pitches is quite
> minimal.
The initial pitch was the only one I'd describe as being run-out,
provided you have a piece for the cornered flake on the second last
pitch (where you step out to the right hand final crack from the
polished steps), and a sling for a small tree below that. If memory
serves, a small hex (#2?) works in the cornered flake. It's my
impression that the run-out on the first pitch can be avoided by
walking up to the left in the trees to the horizontal crack.
> Most belays are from secure trees, although that at the
> bottom of the final pitch must be done using climber-provided
> equipment.
I remember two, the "pocket" before the friction traverse left 5.0
lieback flake pitch is one, and the bottom of the last pitch the other.
A less stressful time on the last pitch can be had by using a small
tree at the bottom of the pitch on a flatter piece of ground above the
larger trees as the belay, and stretching the rope make it to the top
of the block that finishes the technical climbing. A bit of gardening
will yeild the two cracks and an anchor can be amde there, rather than
using the ledge between the cornered flake and the block.
Avoiding the crowds on diedre is a major attraction, but it's
definately a three star route, and an easy 5.7 one at that. After
leading bananna peel several times, I assumed diedre would be an
equally pleasant waltz, and it wasn't. YMMV.
Ummm, needless to say, the beta is from memory and probably wrong.
I've rambled on too much, but thinking of this made me homesick...
Cheers,
-P.
--
Pete Hurd pe...@zool.su.se
Zoologiska Institutionen Ph# 46-8-16-40-37
Stockholms Universitetet Fax 46-8-16-77-15
Stockholm S-106 91 Sweden
http://ethology.zool.su.se/pete.html
Alistair Veitch
>Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre and more
>intimidating than Snake to some degree because of the near-total
>absence of protection placements on the hardest pitches. There are a
>couple of bolts and one fixed piton in the most necessary locations
>but the protection on the rather run-out slab pitches is quite
>minimal. Most belays are from secure trees, although that at the
>bottom of the final pitch must be done using climber-provided
>equipment. Patches of rock on the route tend to be quite polished and
>so offer poor-footing but these can generally be avoided.
In article <Dave_Whitehead-...@host22.gdt.com>,
Dave_Wh...@gdt.com (Dave Whitehead) followed up:
>I have done banana peel many times, often to avoid the crowds on Diedre
>(which is a better climb, a classic really). Banana Peel is definitely not
>for the faint of heart, but it does allow you to carry a very light rack.
>I don't remember there being any pro at all on a couple of the easier
>pitches. However, I disagree that it is more intimidating than Snake,
>which has numerous runouts and pointy things to fall onto.
I only remember one "run-out" pitch on Banana Peel (the slab 5.6 pitch (#4?))
and the "hard" moves on that are right at the beginning anyway. I think
Snake is far more dangerous, in either the objective or subjective sense.
You'd still have to work pretty hard to kill/seriously injure yourself on
either.
I may be wrong about the upper pitches being runout, I always (effectively)
solo them, only stopping at belays - I did simul-climb it once (17 minutes
for the climb, including a 5 minute wait to pass someone, whom I probably
annoyed - sorry!), and managed to get enough gear every 10 meters or so to
keep me happy... As always, climbs are subjective, but this climb has
always felt totally solid to me...
>If you like Banana Peel you'll love the runouts on Slab Alley or Bran Flakes.
Agreed on this one... most of the upper pitches on Slab Alley have *no*
gear. In fact several climbs on the Apron have a similar dearth of pro.
The classic example is the single bolt on the 10b traverse on Grim
Reaper (I haven't yet had the guts to get up there and do this one. Maybe
this summer - big maybe...)
In article <31C2FB69...@zool.su.se>, Pete Hurd <pe...@zool.su.se> also
followed up:
>Ian Fisher wrote:
>
>> Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre and more
>
>I disagree, I found diedre to be much scarier, especially if you get
>off route on the frictony traverse to the big wait-your-turn ledge.
>This memory may have been due to SLCDless rack :-) And the fact that
I don't agree about Deidre (I must be having a disagreable day :-) ). Assuming
we're talking about the same traverse, the hardest moves are almost right
off the belay, and you soon get to a good, several inch wide ledge.
>after my first time up diedre was followed by some climb whose name
>escapes me but was indeed distinguished by a "head spinning runout"
>(which I did not lead, but instincively thought "shit, I'd hate to have
>to climb up that!" when looking down from the bolted anchor at the end
>of the first pitch).
Gotta be Question of Balance. Brilliant climb, but yes, you could take a
bit of a whipper... For some strange reason, I really relish climbs like this,
and the runout's on slabs don't worry me. I know if I had to go as far on
anything else (ie vertical terrain) with that sort of runout, I'd probably
be quite worried (understatement...)
>> There are a
>> couple of bolts and one fixed piton in the most necessary locations
>
>The first time I went up diedre there was one bolt and two pins, all
>on the crux "waves" pitch (a lesson in rope drag for this novice
>leader). My next two visits ran across one bolt and one pin onely.
>(The one that walked off was in the horizontal crack above the corner
>on the waves pitch.
>
>I'm bummed to learn that there are now more.
I think Ian's talking about Banana Peel, not Deidre, but all the belays
are fixed on Deidre now (nice new Metolius rap bolts, last year sometime?).
Not needed in my opinion, but who's listening? I don't think there's any
fixed gear on the rest of the route (someone will probably correct me). The
last pin disappeared a few years ago - I remember pulling it out with my
fingers, and carefully placing it securely on a ledge, as a sort of historical
marker, but...
Finally, in a change of topic, in article <4pspen$4...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>,
er...@u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) wrote:
> ifi...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ian Fisher) writes:
>
> >Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre and more
> >intimidating than Snake to some degree because of the near-total
> >absence of protection placements on the hardest pitches. There are a
>
> You may have been off-route. There is an unprotected sucker variation
> early on which turns out to be 5.8, with the more tenuous moves up
> high. The upper pitches are also run out, but not particularly hard
> or tricky.
>
> I was fortunate enough to be following when we accidently took
> the sucker variation, a rightward angling slabby groove to a bushy
> area, on about the 2nd pitch.
And in <Dave_Whitehead-...@host22.gdt.com>,
Dave_Wh...@gdt.com (Dave Whitehead) followed up:
>This sandbag didn't by any chance have a totally rusted out 1/4" bolt and
>hanger on it did it. On Banana Peel, If you find pro you're in the wrong
>place ;)
And Ian replied:
>No, we were on the correct route as it matched the guidebook photo and
>description quite perfectly. The upper pitches are run-out but you
I think there might be some confusion here. I'm going from a memory over
a year old here, but I think Eric is talking about Pineapple Peel. There
is an alternate 5.8 start to Banana Peel as well, but it doesn't have any
gear. Pineapple Peel does have a single, manky bolt, then up to a groove.
I remember having a hell of a time getting to the bolt, constantly brushing
lichen off (the flakey grey/brown kind, that loves to slide under your
feet), and then finding it looked about as good as a clothespeg as far as
protection was concerned. Fortunately the groove was easier. I was amused to
see, near the top of it, a long, twin streak in the lichen, obviously made
by a pair of feet as someone had gone for a screamer, sliding down the slab.
The last place for good gear from the fall point was 10+ feet below, and that
was for a small tricam, not something most Squamish climbers carry on their
rack.
This must be my day for rambling, but then I'm off to Alaska for 3 weeks
hiking in a few days, and don't feel much like working...
Cheers,
Alistair
--
Alistair Veitch | Email: ave...@cs.ubc.ca | o/\_ "I'd rather
U. of British Columbia | Phone: +1 604 822-9407 | <\ _,\ be climbing"
Vancouver | Fax: +1 604 822-4585 | "> |
Canada | | : |
ScoPi
Squamish Apron Runouts:
Slim Pickens Variation to Sparrow (pretty much a free solo)
5.8 finish variation on Sparrow
The first pitch of Grim Reaper (the only one I have ever done)
A Question of Balance
The 5.9 approach to White Lightning.
Scott
Lee Purvis
Now that is run-out! The 5.9 approach to White lightning is
probably 35 meters long with no pro. It certainly makes one
focus!
--Lee
--
"Obstacles Are Those Frightful Things You See
When You Take Your Mind Off Your Goals"
Lee Purvis
lee_p...@discoverysoft.com
http://www.telemark.net/~lee_purvis
Cyril Shokoples
>disparaging remarks for Banana Peel (5.7, 7 pitches) on the Apron
>Banana Peel is a much more serious proposition than Deidre
>BTW, there were several groups on Deidre when we arrived (9:30 on a
>weekday morning).
Deja Vu
I hadn't climbed at Squamish for nearly a decade and went out for a day
last fall with an old friend. Last time I climbed at Squamish there was
only one party on the Apron, and that was us. This time there was a
lineup on Diedre four parties deep by 08:30 in the morning. We did Banana
Peel instead, (as did Mr. Fisher) and we found it very pleasant and
acceptably runout. Did the first couple of pitches in my new 5.10 running
shoes. The alternative to runouts is bolting the crap out of everything,
and I have witnessed that enough in some sport climbing areas in the
Rockies.
Having established many routes in the Jasper, AB, Canada area, I always
try to strike a balance between what is acceptable protection and what is
overdone. I have not always succeeded, but I try. Let us try to recall
that Banana Peel is rated "5.7" and an acceptable runout here is longer
than at the higher grades where falling is a more distinct possibility.
We should also consider that it was done in this style with a lot less
sticky shoes than are currently available. Perhaps if the grade seemed
high or the runouts long, you may have been experiencing an off day? or
perhaps we were having a good day when we were there? (The swarm of wasps
biting my friend in the head somewhat diminishes the good day theory!)
Well, I am off to Jasper again tommorrow for a month of work, where four
parties in the same valley is considered VERY crowded. I guess the great
rock of Squamish comes with a price. Get your tickets now.
Cyril
--
Go High... Go Far... Climb Fast... Ski Hard... Play Safe !
Cyril Shokoples UIAGM, EMT, and other stuff
Rescue Dynamics
res...@compusmart.ab.ca
http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/resqdyn
Lee Purvis
Cyril Shokoples wrote:
>
> ... snip ...
>
> I guess the great
> rock of Squamish comes with a price. Get your tickets now.
>
> Cyril
It's certainly true that Squamish is getting very busy. There is
now a new parking lot at the Smoke Bluffs and the Apron... so we
can pack in hundreds of cars. Yipee!!
It seems that everyone either wants to climb at the Smoke Bluffs
or do Deiedre (on the Apron). There is so much good climbing
elsewhere! My rule is to NEVER go to the Smoke Bluffs on a
weekend. It is just insanely busy. I would encourage people
to spread out a little, and check out some of the other great
climbing: The Malamulte, base of Grand Wall, alternate Apron
Routes (St. Vitus, White Lightning, Snake, etc. are usually not
busy), The Squaw, even the Bulletheads. It is true that it is
hard to TR at most of these places, but moderate grades can be
found (ie. 5.9 or less) and if you climb 5.10 these places are
IMHO much better.
Anyway... now I'll get down off my soap box...
Dave Whitehead
> Cyril Shokoples wrote:
> >
> > ... snip ...
> >
> > I guess the great
> > rock of Squamish comes with a price. Get your tickets now.
> >
> > Cyril
>
> It's certainly true that Squamish is getting very busy. There is
> now a new parking lot at the Smoke Bluffs and the Apron... so we
> can pack in hundreds of cars. Yipee!!
>
> It seems that everyone either wants to climb at the Smoke Bluffs
> or do Deiedre (on the Apron). There is so much good climbing
> elsewhere! My rule is to NEVER go to the Smoke Bluffs on a
> weekend. It is just insanely busy. I would encourage people
> to spread out a little, and check out some of the other great
> climbing: The Malamulte, base of Grand Wall, alternate Apron
> Routes (St. Vitus, White Lightning, Snake, etc. are usually not
> busy), The Squaw, even the Bulletheads. It is true that it is
> hard to TR at most of these places, but moderate grades can be
> found (ie. 5.9 or less) and if you climb 5.10 these places are
> IMHO much better.
>
In my opinion the only routes in Squamish are Neat and Cool, Burgers and
Fries and Diedre. No other routes should ever be attempted in any way by
any other party. These three routes are all you need. I strongly suggest
that all climbers limit themselves exclusively to these climbs, especially
on weekends, and certainly this coming Saturday between say 10am and 5pm.
Don't bother looking at any of the other rock in Squamish, its all rotten
rock with poor protection and lousy climbing. Stick to the climbs you
know, and love.
Aahahahahahahaha, fools, oops! its still on!
Dave Whitehead
In article <31C96F...@mindlink.bc.ca>, Lee_P...@discoverysoft.com wrote:
> Dave Whitehead wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the only routes in Squamish are Neat and Cool, Burgers and
> > Fries and Diedre. No other routes should ever be attempted in any way by
> > any other party. These three routes are all you need. I strongly suggest
> > that all climbers limit themselves exclusively to these climbs, especially
> > on weekends, and certainly this coming Saturday between say 10am and 5pm.
> >
> > Don't bother looking at any of the other rock in Squamish, its all rotten
> > rock with poor protection and lousy climbing. Stick to the climbs you
> > know, and love.
>
> Dave...
>
> You forgot about Flying Circus and Penny Lane. All other rock is, indeed,
> rotten with poor protection as you stated. If anyone *is* going to Squamish
> this weekend... I highly recommend adding these two climbs to the above
> list of must do climbs. Disney has recently been awarded the concession
> for Squamish, and tickets will be sold in the parking lot. First come, first
> climbed.
>
> And worse yet is the rock at Skaha (especially this weekend). Skaha is
> a junk heap with no redeeming features. Not recommended. Don't climb
> there. It sucks.
>
> Clearly... the only place to climb in the Pacific Northwest is some mystical
> and faraway place known as "Smith Rocks Dude". I think all climbers in the
> Northwest should focus their efforts at this clearly superior climbing
> area.
>
> -- Lee (don't go to Skaha this weekend) Purvis
Oh man, you are so right. I had forgotten about Flying Circus and Penny
Lane, yes these are quite adequate climbs and do make reasonable warm
downs once the big three have been appropriately subjugated.
And that manky rock at Skaha, I must thank you for warning our fellow
climbers not to bother going there. Man-O-Man that place is just a death
trap for sure. And flat as a lake, hardly a vertical surface to be found
that isn't a crumbling pile of death rubble.
Climbers take heed, stay away from Skaha at all costs. Smith Rock is the
only place safe, sporty and fun enough to spend your time climbing at in
the Pacific NorthWest. It is also the only place with any kind of
worthwhile challenge. There's just no thrill or ego satisyfying value to
climbing anywhere North of Smith.
And besides Canadian rock is buried under hundreds of feet of FLAT snow
and ice all year, except during the monsoon season, when you need a
snorkle to see the sun.
Just repeat after me and you'll be happy "I'm climbing at Smith this
weekend" "I'm climbing at Smith this weekend" .... etc, ad infinatum.
Lee Purvis
Dave Whitehead wrote:
>
> In my opinion the only routes in Squamish are Neat and Cool, Burgers and
> Fries and Diedre. No other routes should ever be attempted in any way by
> any other party. These three routes are all you need. I strongly suggest
> that all climbers limit themselves exclusively to these climbs, especially
> on weekends, and certainly this coming Saturday between say 10am and 5pm.
>
> Don't bother looking at any of the other rock in Squamish, its all rotten
> rock with poor protection and lousy climbing. Stick to the climbs you
> know, and love.
Dave...
You forgot about Flying Circus and Penny Lane. All other rock is, indeed,
rotten with poor protection as you stated. If anyone *is* going to Squamish
this weekend... I highly recommend adding these two climbs to the above
list of must do climbs. Disney has recently been awarded the concession
for Squamish, and tickets will be sold in the parking lot. First come, first
climbed.
And worse yet is the rock at Skaha (especially this weekend). Skaha is
a junk heap with no redeeming features. Not recommended. Don't climb
there. It sucks.
Clearly... the only place to climb in the Pacific Northwest is some mystical
and faraway place known as "Smith Rocks Dude". I think all climbers in the
Northwest should focus their efforts at this clearly superior climbing
area.
-- Lee (don't go to Skaha this weekend) Purvis
--
Pete Hurd
> You forgot about Flying Circus and Penny Lane.
and Cat Crack, everybody, go climb a Peter Croft route, your dog can clean the
pitch.