ANNOUNCE: Great Deals on Challenger Offshore, Craze Jet Boats & Maxxon Inflatables - LOWEST Prices Anywhere!
Troy Keith
1-800-952-6692
Please Call us Today!
At Wright's Marine, we're committed to ensuring that you will be happy
with your boat for years to come. Absolutely the LOWEST prices
ANYWHERE on CRAZE Jet Boats, MAXXON Inflatables and CHALLENGER
Offshore Series models.
Larry W4CSC
and hostm...@icom.com as admin and tech contacts for this guy's net
service. Everyone else please do the same and ask them to stop his
spamming....thanks.
Larry
Harry Krause
SPAM is unsolicited advertising EMAIL, unless the definition has been
expanded to include unwanted newsgroup advertising. Isn't there another
term for unsolicited commercial posts in newsgroups?
--
Harry Krause
------------
Ok, the joke's over. Where's President Bush?
Troy Keith
I don't know.. maybe we're just missing something here, but doesn't
the faq for this group talk about making "announcement posts" for this
sort of thing? I scanned the headers beforehand and saw several
people selling boats - specifically, the 28' carver riviera a few
lines up as well as numerous others.
We're just helping a friend out w/their small boat business.. If this
isn't the "correct" way to do it then please let us know.
Troy Keith
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:01:15 GMT, W4...@lostonthe.net (Larry W4CSC)
Troy Keith
the faq for this group talk about making "announcement posts" for this
sort of thing? I scanned the headers beforehand and saw several
people selling boats - specifically, the 28' carver riviera a few
lines up as well as numerous others.
We're just helping a friend out w/their small boat business.. If this
isn't the "correct" way to do it then please let us know.
We're obviously not trying to hide our identities or do anything that
I'd consider to be blatent spamming..
Troy Keith
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:16:31 -0500, Harry Krause <hkr...@capu.net>
wrote:
>Larry W4CSC wrote:
>>
>> Sent a spam report to Keith Kirsten (kir...@NORTHERNWEBSERVICES.COM)
>> and hostm...@icom.com as admin and tech contacts for this guy's net
>> service. Everyone else please do the same and ask them to stop his
>> spamming....thanks.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:30:23 GMT, in...@northernwebservices.com (Troy
>> Keith) wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.wrightsmarine.net
>> >1-800-952-6692
>> >
>> >Please Call us Today!
>> >
>> >At Wright's Marine, we're committed to ensuring that you will be happy
>> >with your boat for years to come. Absolutely the LOWEST prices
>> >ANYWHERE on CRAZE Jet Boats, MAXXON Inflatables and CHALLENGER
>> >Offshore Series models.
>
>
-- Mike --
Keith) wrote:
>I don't know.. maybe we're just missing something here, but doesn't
>the faq for this group talk about making "announcement posts" for this
>sort of thing?
Maybe... I don't know. That sounds more like rec.boats.marketplace,
though
>I scanned the headers beforehand and saw several
>people selling boats - specifically, the 28' carver riviera a few
>lines up as well as numerous others.
>
Personally, I consider those spam. Not always by an individual
though. Some classified ad sites, have a box you can check to also
submit your ad to what they call, "relevant usenet groups." ...I
never check that box.
>We're just helping a friend out w/their small boat business.. If this
>isn't the "correct" way to do it then please let us know.
>
>We're obviously not trying to hide our identities or do anything that
>I'd consider to be blatent spamming..
>
>
>Troy Keith
I also own a marine site. My advice: Don't do anything that could be
mistaken for spam. Whether it is or not. Most people won't do
business with someone that gets labeled as a spamming dirtbag, whether
they really are one or not. I've even told family/friends, not to
mention me on the internet, after they had done similar things, trying
to be helpful....but just not understanding how things work.
I've been following the group for a while now and would guess that
most people here don't know the URL of my site, but have probably seen
it if they've ever typed any boat related keywords into a search
engine. I don't even add it to a sig-line, which I'm pretty sure is
perfectly legit in most groups.
It's very easy to terminate someone's ISP account and a post bordering
on what someone might call spam, probably won't generate enough site
traffic to make it worth it. Some ISP services could cancel your
account, based on the number of complaints they get--without
investigating the actual rules of the newsgroup.
Follow one of the Try Baja/Big Tuna Bill threads and use that as a
guideline to see if you think an ad placed here would reeeeeally be
helpful to your friend. ;-)
Might want to try rec.boats.marketplace , or better yet, the major
search engines--that's where people go when the want to find
something. Most of my visitors come from yahoo, altavista and
search.aol.com, so you may want to start there.
A few other things that can't be mistaken for spam, that really work,
are reciprocal links, Free-For-All link pages, ad-networking, etc...
Also, you're account wouldn't be the only thing at risk. Most
webhosting services don't tolerate spam, so his web page could be
taken down if there are too many complaints.
Mike
Bob W6JCW
>Sent a spam report to Keith Kirsten (kir...@NORTHERNWEBSERVICES.COM)
>and hostm...@icom.com as admin and tech contacts for this guy's net
>service. Everyone else please do the same and ask them to stop his
>spamming....thanks.
>
>Larry
Yo Larry,
Since you have your e-mail address spoofed, how about sending it to me at
w6...@yahoo.com.. I have some questions that aren't boat related I would like
to ask....
P.S. Congrats on the new call....
Thanks...
Bob Sanders
W6JCW QCWA 29310
M/V HEDONISM III
http://home.earthlink.net/~w6jcw/
Chris J. Scoggin
last spam, you should have gotten the hint. You are playing dumb to the
newsgroup rules.
Troy Keith <in...@northernwebservices.com> wrote in message
news:38bab897....@liberty.bahnhof.se...
>
>
> I don't know.. maybe we're just missing something here, but doesn't
> the faq for this group talk about making "announcement posts" for this
> sort of thing? I scanned the headers beforehand and saw several
> people selling boats - specifically, the 28' carver riviera a few
> lines up as well as numerous others.
>
> We're just helping a friend out w/their small boat business.. If this
> isn't the "correct" way to do it then please let us know.
>
> Troy Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:01:15 GMT, W4...@lostonthe.net (Larry W4CSC)
> wrote:
>
> >Sent a spam report to Keith Kirsten (kir...@NORTHERNWEBSERVICES.COM)
> >and hostm...@icom.com as admin and tech contacts for this guy's net
> >service. Everyone else please do the same and ask them to stop his
> >spamming....thanks.
> >
> >Larry
> >
> >
Skipper
> SPAM is unsolicited advertising EMAIL, unless the definition has been
> expanded to include unwanted newsgroup advertising. Isn't there another term
> for unsolicited commercial posts in newsgroups?
Believe the term your searching for is Trybaja.
--
Skipper
Skipper
> Follow one of the Try Baja/Big Tuna Bill threads and use that as a
> guideline to see if you think an ad placed here would reeeeeally be
> helpful to your friend. ;-)
Now wait just one minute there, Mike. I thought those threads were
*very* helpful and educational. Some would say passing on good
information is what this NG is for.
--
Skipper
Larry W4CSC
called SPAM. If everyone "helped out" every buddy's business on the
newsgroups by posting his spam for him....we'd be OVERRUN. This is a
person-to-person chat room without realtime. Spam is spam. It's
SELLING SOMETHING that's NOT yours for fun and profit. You can call
it Announce if you like....but SPAM IS SPAM....
Larry.....they'll be in touch.
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:08:36 GMT, in...@northernwebservices.com (Troy
Larry W4CSC
little insulator problem we had running 70KW near 40 meters is posted
there....(c;
Larry W4CSC.....the spoof is for these spammers!
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:23:30 GMT, W6...@yahoo.com (Bob W6JCW) wrote:
>In article <38baa96b...@eastcorp.supernews.com>, W4...@lostonthe.net (Larry W4CSC) wrote:
>>Sent a spam report to Keith Kirsten (kir...@NORTHERNWEBSERVICES.COM)
>>and hostm...@icom.com as admin and tech contacts for this guy's net
>>service. Everyone else please do the same and ask them to stop his
>>spamming....thanks.
>>
>>Larry
>
-- Mike --
wrote:
I definitely believe people have a right to know the truth (unless
it's something bad about me, of course ;-). hehe
I was actually gearing that post toward the poster's end of the deal,
thinking that if people saw the attacks on Bill's business, they'd
think twice about posting their business here. Not just the way his
honesty gets questioned in your posts, but also the
anti-commercial-post replies he gets from other users.
Personally, whether Bill's legit or not, I really don't see why he
posts in a place where he get's attacked. I know some people say
that bad publicity is better than none.... but I never thought that
was true in the case of businesses that are trying to get people to
trust them with money.
I know that a lot of people attack you for your Bill attacks, too--but
I would guess that more people would steer away from Try Baja after
reading them, rather than get out their checkbooks.
If I had some sort of updates, info, etc... that I wanted people to
know about, I'd add them to my site and offer those who wanted it, a
link to that site. Or better yet, I'd announce it through my mailing
list--that's why it's there. I just think of newsgroups as more of a
question/answer-type thing--even if it's off-topic.
That said, his posts (or any other posts), don't bother me--whether
they're off-topic, commercial, etc... I just read what interests me
and skip the rest. Now email-spam, that's another story...
Mike
DCarlile
wrote:
Seems to me like you're advertising more for BTB than he is.
David Carlile
Classic Wooden Boats
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8110
bigtunabill
spew out the worst of advise, misinformation and outright lies. He
doesn't hesitate to repeat lies and libel here. Most everyone on the ng
knows what skipper is. He really just wants to get these pissing
contests going and the more people he can drag into it the better he
likes it. He thinks that he has nothing to lose because he hides behind
his alias.
He even flamed a post that I made about a project in La Paz that feeds
hungry children. They don't ask for money only some of the extra fish
that we catch. It's a good project run by good folks in La Paz and is
not connected to Try Baja. Nothing commercial about it. Skupper went
ahead with his usual BS laden circular arguments and tried to turn
everyone against the project. Why would he want to do something that
would hurt starving children? What an asshole!
As far as people opening their checkbooks for Try baja, that's not he
way it works. When you book through Try Baja you pay the hotel direct.
Try Baja is an agent. You don't pay Try Baja, the hotel does.
I'm sure skupper will use this as an opportunity to flame me again and
again (which by the way is just as much against ng. policy as
advertising and spam). If he really cared about commercial posting, he'd
complain about ALL commercial posting, not just try to turn the
discussion into another flame on me personally.
He really should take me up on my offer to float fish San Diego Bay in a
skiff. You know getting out on the water can really help soothe the
misery of being land bound in Kansas.
--
BTB
Skipper
>> Now wait just one minute there, Mike. I thought those threads were *very*
>> helpful and educational. Some would say passing on good information is what
>> this NG is for.
> I definitely believe people have a right to know the truth… Not just the way
> his honesty gets questioned in your posts, but also the anti-commercial-post
> replies he gets from other users.
> Personally, whether Bill's legit or not, I really don't see why…
> That said, his posts (or any other posts), don't bother me-whether they're
> off-topic, commercial, etc…
The main point is not whether you or I find commercial ads bothersome,
but that they are a violation of the NG guidelines. Bill admitted he
knew this but apparently didn't think the rules applied to him. We
learned that his local newspaper called the operation, "little more than
a vehicle to fleece vacationers". We also learned that *several* folks
obtained court judgments after bad experiences with the operation. We
saw the California Attorney General's webpage comments about this
operation. And we all witnessed his promise to NG contributors not to
issue additional ads and then break that pledge. His ads should have
bothered you.
Now you've mentioned many times that you have a webpage devoted to
selling things to boaters. Do you have a retail location that folks can
visit or is the operation strictly a mail order house?
--
Skipper
Skipper
> As far as people opening their checkbooks for Try baja, that's not he way it
> works. When you book through Try Baja you pay the hotel direct. Try Baja is
> an agent. You don't pay Try Baja, the hotel does.
You know, being a "land bound Kansas asshole hiding behind an alias", I
really need some help on how it works from a dandified city slicker such
as yourself. Bahr with me, I'm a little slow you know.
Now my understanding is that you claimed you could not refund money to
several groups of victimized customers because it was paid directly to
the owner of the Tom Cat and that you promised not to do business with
him again because he wouldn't give it back. I suppose the biggest
difficulty I have in understanding that you're the real victim here is
that you are again doing business with this boat and even featuring it
in your ads. Suppose the fact that these folks apparently received court
judgments against TryBaja that have not been paid also raises an eyebrow
out here on the flat dry dusty prairie.
Gotta go now, Bill. Time to slop the hogs.
--
Skipper
-- Mike --
wrote:
>-- Mike - wrote:
>
>>> Now wait just one minute there, Mike. I thought those threads were *very*
>>> helpful and educational. Some would say passing on good information is what
>>> this NG is for.
>
>> I definitely believe people have a right to know the truth… Not just the way
>> his honesty gets questioned in your posts, but also the anti-commercial-post
>> replies he gets from other users.
>
>> Personally, whether Bill's legit or not, I really don't see why…
>
>> That said, his posts (or any other posts), don't bother me-whether they're
>> off-topic, commercial, etc…
>
>The main point is not whether you or I find commercial ads bothersome,
>but that they are a violation of the NG guidelines. Bill admitted he
>knew this but apparently didn't think the rules applied to him. We
>learned that his local newspaper called the operation, "little more than
>a vehicle to fleece vacationers". We also learned that *several* folks
>obtained court judgments after bad experiences with the operation. We
>saw the California Attorney General's webpage comments about this
>operation. And we all witnessed his promise to NG contributors not to
>issue additional ads and then break that pledge. His ads should have
>bothered you.
I pretty much meant the posting of fishing reports didn't bother me,
especially since a few readers stated that they enjoyed them. That was
more from an on-topic vs. off-topic point of view, rather than based
on whether or not he's a crook. Technically, anything crooked *does*
bother me, I just never actually read any of the articles on his bad
dealings because I don't have enough personal interest in his
business. I do believe that potential customers have probably been
scared off from what goes on in here. Hearing one bad thing about a
person/business plants a negative thought in a person's head. There's
a chance someone would go with a company that they never heard
anything good about....just because they also never heard anything bad
about them.
As far as posts bothering me, that wasn't just about Bill. No one in
here has ever really bothered me. I never have, and never will, put
anyone on ignore. Heck, I read all of Lee's, Jim's & Harry's
posts... and look at all the bad press they get! ;-)
By not getting bothered, I mean it doesn't wreck my day. Even as
someone that spends way too much time at the computer, I still keep it
separated from what happens in real life. I would hope that everyone
here does the same. I'd hate to think that anyone in here walks away
from their computer in a bad mood because of any ng post, flame,
etc...
>Now you've mentioned many times that you have a webpage devoted to
>selling things to boaters. Do you have a retail location that folks can
>visit or is the operation strictly a mail order house?
Proof that I can give a long, boring answer to a simple question:
;-)
Short answer:
Not anymore--strictly internet/mail order part sales.
Sleep Inducer:
I started a FL based, marine-service business in '94. Then, in late
98, I got hooked on computers. I took computer classes at the
college and started tinkering with the idea of a web page for selling
parts--in addition to the service end of the business, not instead of.
I was getting tired of FL. I have family in TN that convinced me it
was a great place to live, so I decided it was time for a change and
moved here (Nashville), less than a year ago. That's the nice thing
about internet businesses, they follow you where ever you want to
go--unlike the thousands of dollars in shop equipment that's
collecting dust in a FL storage building. It was a small business but
I still have customers there that call and ask for help and/or order
parts. Luckily, the big Merc/Mercruiser, OMC, & Force dealers there
liked me and gave me great prices, if I ever needed to buy any parts
through them.
Anyway. When I moved to TN, I went to strictly internet/mail order
parts. I never closed any of my accounts in FL, so all I had to do
was make a few phone calls to change the business name, address, tax#
info, etc... Plus, I'm not in direct competition with most of my
suppliers, on the internet, so there's no conflict there. Even the
ones that have websites, don't care because they make money no matter
who handles the sale. The biggest plus is that most of them drop-ship
directly to the customer for me--speeds things up and saves money. I
don't stock a single part and have no reason to do so.
Actually, there's a bunch of inventory, still in FL... I should
probably go get it, one of these days. ;-)
I definitely made more money doing the service thing in FL, and
working for a couple marine business in NJ & PA. The internet/mail
order thing is too new; everything I do is counting on volume
increasing with time. Or else I will be holding a "Will trade boat
parts for food" sign, as I joked with Harry in another post.
Much less stress this way, though. I suppose that's worth something.
A year ago, a bad day at work involved fun stuff like losing blood,
smashing knuckles, watching a $30 wrench go for a swim, etc... Now a
bad day means, poor ADSL speed, blue screens, etc.... I don't get as
dirty either, sitting at a keyboard, unless you count the occasional
coffee spill & pop-tart crumbs. hehe ;-)
Mike
Skipper
Appreciate the candid response and great attitude. Now, what kind of
savings should we expect?
--
Skipper
-- Mike --
wrote:
>Appreciate the candid response and great attitude. Now, what kind of
>savings should we expect?
It really depends on the parts. I do best with Wiseco & Rapair
products. Then, probably rebuilt powerhead/drivetrain components.
It pretty much boils down to the items that are at a set price (no
quantity discounts), since I don't stock anything. It varies with
different brands/suppliers.
Then, there's a lot of stuff, like most electronics, misc.
accessories, boat covers, and a few other odd-ball items, where I just
send people to places like west, a lot of the time, since they buy
enough to get max discounts.
My guess is that if I sold a part for $10 and west sold the part for
$10, they'd make more money because of their volume discounts.
I'd also guess that if my cost on a part was $10 and theirs was the
same, that I would be willing to sell the part cheaper, since I don't
have any real expenses that I need to cover.
I recently had someone request a part (I think it was a depth
finder--$125 range) that west was running a sale on, at exactly $1
less than my dealer cost. There's that qty problem.
I could have matched the price if I bought 3 of the item--and broke
even, or I could have beat it by a few dollars if I bought 6 and maybe
rake in a whopping $2 profit. Instead, I mailed him a link straight
to the west page with the part & price on it and told him I couldn't
match it. I would have bought *one* and sold it at cost, to match the
price...if that was possible.
Sometimes, the qty discount on buying 2 instead of 1, is enough to do
the trick... but not stocking ANYTHING is how I keep the other prices
down. That might change eventually... but not in the near future.
Even as a defender of aftermarket products, there are also many
situations where I recommend that they head down to their local
Merc/OMC/Yamaha, etc... dealer and get the parts there.
Depends on the situation.
It all works out, though. There's room for everyone & their form of
business: internet/mail/phone order, OEM dealers, Discount marine
stores, etc... and of course, everyones favorite place to by
high-quality TCW-III oil.......Wal-Mart. hehe ;o)
Mike