Opionions on the better boat: Bayliner, Maxum, Glastron
sasman
the 18-20 foot range with an open bow. The largest dealer in my neck of
the woods sells primarily Bayliner, Maxum, and Glastron. Any opinions as
to which is the better boat?
Thanks
7thh...@my-dejanews.com
Go to the boattalk.com opinon section for hundreds of personl reviews.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jim Irvine
but I did look at the three you mentioned before I purchased my second boat -
a Sea Ray.
The Maxum is basically the same boat as the B'liner with some extra fancy
trim and upholstery. Not unlike purchasing a Ford truck - you can have the
plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the XLT. But its the
same product, just packaged differently.
Glastron is a middle of the road brand, not bad, good sound company that has
been in business quite a while. I notice that a lot of Marina's use them as
rental boats. So they must be somewhat reliable and of sound construction to
take the abuse of the average rental client that knows nothing about how to
operate a boat.
If you want to get spoiled, look at what Cobalt is making and if you do make
sure you check their price tag as well.
sasman wrote:
> I am in the market to purchase my first boat. I am looking at a boat in
> the 18-20 foot range with an open bow. The largest dealer in my neck of
> the woods sells primarily Bayliner, Maxum, and Glastron. Any opinions as
> to which is the better boat?
>
> Thanks
--
____________________________________________________________________
Jim Irvine
James R. Irvine Construction Inc
jrir...@fred.net
http://www.fred.net/jrirvine
Bkgold
KN4IM Larry
wrote:
>Well, I won't claim to be in Pascoe's league when it come to reviewing boats,
>but I did look at the three you mentioned before I purchased my second boat -
>a Sea Ray.
>
>The Maxum is basically the same boat as the B'liner with some extra fancy
>trim and upholstery. Not unlike purchasing a Ford truck - you can have the
>plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the XLT. But its the
>same product, just packaged differently.
>
>Glastron is a middle of the road brand, not bad, good sound company that has
>been in business quite a while. I notice that a lot of Marina's use them as
>rental boats. So they must be somewhat reliable and of sound construction to
>take the abuse of the average rental client that knows nothing about how to
>operate a boat.
>
>If you want to get spoiled, look at what Cobalt is making and if you do make
>sure you check their price tag as well.
>
Let me put in a little plug for a local, family-owned boat company,
Scout. If there's a dealer in your area, take a Scout out for a spin,
too! Nicely made by awful picky people in a small factory in
Summerville, SC. Very solid and has a great ride on a strange looking
hull design. Very stable.
SpEEdo
Knot A Chance
boat as the B'liner with some extra fancy trim and upholstery. Not unlike
purchasing a Ford truck - you can have the
can you present to substantiate that broad claim?
If you follow your same logic, since SeaRay is also in the Brunswick family,
can you also say the Maxum is "basically the same boat as the SeaRay with
some extra fancy trim and upholstery. Not unlike purchasing a Ford truck -
you can have the plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the
XLT."
How about saying Chevy is basically the same a Cadillac, Ford is the same as
Lincoln, and so on. Different sister companies with a common parent
company. Guess they are all the same cars.
I saw better workmanship, quality of material (as you pointed out) and
engineering on the Maxum vs the Bayliner (Not a flame and I am not saying
that there is anything wrong with Bayliner), at least on the 30+ foot
cruisers I looked at. Not to bring up Pascoe, but he gave Maxum (I believe
he wrote up a 4200 Cruiser) a thumbs up.
I also saw Maxum as being a far better deal than the comparable SeaRay based
on cost vs quality and engineering. Again, in the 30+ foot cruisers.
It all boils down to what works for you and what meets your needs/budget.
Happy Easter
Jim Irvine wrote in message <37056790...@fred.net>...
Well, I won't claim to be in Pascoe's league when it come to reviewing
boats,
but I did look at the three you mentioned before I purchased my second
boat -
a Sea Ray.
The Maxum is basically the same boat as the B'liner with some extra fancy
trim and upholstery. Not unlike purchasing a Ford truck - you can have the
plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the XLT. But its the
same product, just packaged differently.
Glastron is a middle of the road brand, not bad, good sound company that has
been in business quite a while. I notice that a lot of Marina's use them as
rental boats. So they must be somewhat reliable and of sound construction
to
take the abuse of the average rental client that knows nothing about how to
operate a boat.
If you want to get spoiled, look at what Cobalt is making and if you do make
sure you check their price tag as well.
sasman wrote:
hkrause
>
> I have to take exception to your comment "The Maxum is basically the same
> boat as the B'liner with some extra fancy trim and upholstery. Not unlike
> purchasing a Ford truck - you can have the
> plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the XLT." What facts
> can you present to substantiate that broad claim?
>
> If you follow your same logic, since SeaRay is also in the Brunswick family,
> can you also say the Maxum is "basically the same boat as the SeaRay with
> some extra fancy trim and upholstery. Not unlike purchasing a Ford truck -
> you can have the plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the
> XLT."
Until very recently, some of the smaller models of Bayliner and Maxum
shared hulls and assembly lines. It isn't clear whether that has
stopped. The last time I looked, a Bayliner dealer I know had one of
each parked next to each other, and the only visible difference was
"graphics" and upholstery.
I say "until very recently" only because there have some statements
posted here that Bayliner and Maxum no longer are sharing hulls. I don't
know this for a fact, as I haven't been to a Bayliner/Maxum dealer in
some time.
Bill Andersen
I'm delighted with my 19' Bayliner Capri (open bow) and it sells for
thousands of dollars less than the others.
----------
In article <01be7d3f$98030920$268c14d1@billy>, "sasman" <sas...@nwlink.com>
bay...@my-dejanews.com
There are thousands of opinions, all searchable in various ways.
> I am in the market to purchase my first boat. I am looking at a boat in
> the 18-20 foot range with an open bow. The largest dealer in my neck of
> the woods sells primarily Bayliner, Maxum, and Glastron. Any opinions as
> to which is the better boat?
>
> Thanks
>
Jim Irvine
Knot A Chance wrote:
> I have to take exception to your comment "The Maxum is basically the same
> boat as the B'liner with some extra fancy trim and upholstery. Not unlike
> purchasing a Ford truck - you can have the
> plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the XLT." What facts
> can you present to substantiate that broad claim?
Facts? Sorry to disappoint, but I have absolutely no data to support or refute
my prior statement. It was intended as an observation resulting from examining
both brands at a few boat shows over the winter. This of course renders the
total value as meaningless because it is reduced to opinion based solely upon
conjecture.
> If you follow your same logic, since SeaRay is also in the Brunswick family,
> can you also say the Maxum is "basically the same boat as the SeaRay with
> some extra fancy trim and upholstery. Not unlike purchasing a Ford truck -
> you can have the plain Jane XL or one with all the creature comforts, the
> XLT."How about saying Chevy is basically the same a Cadillac, Ford is the same
> as Lincoln, and so on. Different sister companies with a
> common parentcompany. Guess they are all the same
> cars.
Now wait a second, logic is something I know enough about to be dangerous and it
sounds like you are a little convoluted here. Many statements can be made to
sound illogical by making them appear to be absolute, which of course nothing
is, but this is a very poor system of arguement, at least in the philosophical
world. The point was that manufacturers will produce products that are mostly
identical, with the difference being how they are packaged or presented to the
consumer. This, I think, is a true statement.
--
____________________________________________________________________
Jerry Bransford
should buy a Bayliner and not a Maxxum, the Bayliner rep told me that a
Maxxum is essentially a Bayliner with more expensive trim, fabrics,
accessories, etc., but that it was essentially still a Bayliner... and
that he could save me money by buying his Bayliner but get essentially
the same boat. The Searay dealer told me the same thing, and so did my
local Seaswirl dealer. I don't know myself, but there seems to be
agreement on the Maxxum vs. Bayliner comparison. The GM comparison
seems pretty valid to me... like comparing a Chevy to a Pontiac or
Oldsmobile... essentially the same (frame/brakes/body) but the Chevy is
more basic when compared to Pontiac or Oldsmobile. Not that there's
anything wrong with a Chevy but when you're a car enthusiast, a Chevy
isn't very darned exciting to anyone but another Chevy owner... or
someone looking to buy their first car.
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL KC6TAY C.A.P.
The Zen Hotdog... make me one with everything!
Knot A Chance
Maxum dealer tell you? What did your research show you?
Here is what my research showed me: Maxum hulls and decks are constructed
the same as SeaRay. Some accessories may be cheaper, but these are
generally non critical and easy to replace. Look at the galley drawer
construction of SeaRay vs Maxum. Maxum uses wood, SeaRay plastic. Big
ticket and critical items are the same as on SeaRay. Engine, drive,
electronics and canvas packages are the same. Instrument gages may be
smaller on Maxum but of adequate size.
Is this true with Bayliner?
Why pay the big bucks for SeaRay?
Anyway, Happy Easter. Got to get ready for Church.
Jerry Bransford wrote in message <3706C923...@home.com>...
Knot A Chance
Now wait a second, logic is something I know enough about to be dangerous
and it
sounds like you are a little convoluted here. Many statements can be made
to
sound illogical by making them appear to be absolute, which of course
nothing
is, but this is a very poor system of arguement, at least in the
philosophical
world. The point was that manufacturers will produce products that are
mostly
identical, with the difference being how they are packaged or presented to
the
consumer. This, I think, is a true statement.
<snip>
From what I know of the differences between the Bayliner/Maxum/SeaRay, at
least in the 30+ foot cruisers, I believe it is fairer to compare Maxum to
SeaRay. One can safely say a SeaRay is basically the same boat as a Maxum,
perhaps with some more up scale non essentials in the SeaRay which can
basically be added to a Maxum as an aftermarket. In some cases, better
materials in the Maxum.
Happy Easter.
--
____________________________________________________________________
hkrause
So, what you are saying is this:
On cruisers 30' and larger, Maxum and SeaRay are identical boats, other
than, perhaps some accessories? The same hulls, the same lamination
schedule, the same scantlings, the same molds?
How do you define "non-essentials?"
Knot A Chance
are different. SeaRays tend to have a lower profile and ride lower at the
transom.
I am saying they are similarly constructed. Both use alternating layers of
random strand woven roving or bi-axial knits in their hulls and decks. In
some comparable models/lengths, Maxum actually is a heavier boat. Gasoline
tank and water tank capacities differ between comparable but are fairly
close.
Generally SeaRay offers more option packages than Maxum. Non essentials may
be gen sets, 12 disk cd changers, windlasses, vacuflush, etc.
Operating costs over the first 4 years is drastically higher on SeaRay due
generally to the much higher initial cost.
Are you in the market for a 30+ foot cruiser?
hkrause wrote in message <370773D3...@erols.com>...
Knot A Chance
quality of Tiara.
hkrause
>
> I am not saying, nor did I ever say that they are identical boats. Molds
> are different. SeaRays tend to have a lower profile and ride lower at the
> transom.
>
> I am saying they are similarly constructed. Both use alternating layers of
> random strand woven roving or bi-axial knits in their hulls and decks. In
> some comparable models/lengths, Maxum actually is a heavier boat. Gasoline
> tank and water tank capacities differ between comparable but are fairly
> close.
Seems to me that most fiberglass boats are built of alternating layers
of fiberglass cloth. Different weights for the same length boats can be
attributed to many factors. So, you're saying Maxums and Sea Rays are
similar because their hulls use conventional fiberglass techniques?
> Generally SeaRay offers more option packages than Maxum. Non essentials may
> be gen sets, 12 disk cd changers, windlasses, vacuflush, etc.
>
> Operating costs over the first 4 years is drastically higher on SeaRay due
> generally to the much higher initial cost.
Operating cost typically refers to the cost of operation, docking,
repairs, et cetera, not the cost of purchase.
> Are you in the market for a 30+ foot cruiser?
I am in the market for a new, larger boat. If it has a cabin, I suppose
it could be called a "cabin" cruiser. I'm guessing the boat will be
somewhere between 25-26' and 30-31' in length. Traditional looking boat,
though. No bubble boats.
JPW
Knot A Chance wrote in message <4jKN2.6$AI....@iagnews.iagnet.net>...
><snip>
>
>Now wait a second, logic is something I know enough about to be dangerous
>and it
>sounds like you are a little convoluted here. Many statements can be made
>to
>sound illogical by making them appear to be absolute, which of course
>nothing
>is, but this is a very poor system of arguement, at least in the
>philosophical
>world. The point was that manufacturers will produce products that are
>mostly
>identical, with the difference being how they are packaged or presented to
>the
>consumer. This, I think, is a true statement.
>
><snip>
>
>From what I know of the differences between the Bayliner/Maxum/SeaRay, at
>least in the 30+ foot cruisers, I believe it is fairer to compare Maxum to
>SeaRay. One can safely say a SeaRay is basically the same boat as a Maxum,
>perhaps with some more up scale non essentials in the SeaRay which can
>basically be added to a Maxum as an aftermarket. In some cases, better
>materials in the Maxum.
>
>Happy Easter.
Maxum the same as a Sea Ray, huh? Knot a chance! Have you ever owned a Sea
Ray?
I guess since Chrysler now owns Merc. Benz when can carry this logic thing
a little farther. A Benz is just K-Car with a little leather and a hood
ornament I guess?
Sandy
>--
>____________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
JPW
Knot A Chance wrote in message ...
>I am not saying, nor did I ever say that they are identical boats. Molds
>are different. SeaRays tend to have a lower profile and ride lower at the
>transom.
>
>I am saying they are similarly constructed. Both use alternating layers of
>random strand woven roving or bi-axial knits in their hulls and decks. In
>some comparable models/lengths, Maxum actually is a heavier boat. Gasoline
>tank and water tank capacities differ between comparable but are fairly
>close.
>
may
>be gen sets, 12 disk cd changers, windlasses, vacuflush, etc.
>
>Operating costs over the first 4 years is drastically higher on SeaRay due
>generally to the much higher initial cost.
>
>
>
>Knot A Chance wrote:
>>
>> From what I know of the differences between the Bayliner/Maxum/SeaRay, at
>> least in the 30+ foot cruisers, I believe it is fairer to compare Maxum
>to
>> SeaRay. One can safely say a SeaRay is basically the same boat as a
>Maxum,
>> perhaps with some more up scale non essentials in the SeaRay which can
>> basically be added to a Maxum as an aftermarket. In some cases, better
>> materials in the Maxum.
>>
>> Happy Easter.
>
>
You dont have any idea what you are talking about. There I said it as
politely as I could. Sea Ray and Maxum/Bayliner are seperate Boat
companies/Builders made at different plants in different States.
Yes they are owned by the same Corporation, so what. Maxum was an upscale
Bayliner when it started, I am not sure about now. The maxum added a little
nicer finish, seats, etc. to a Bayliner. Sea Ray Boats have never had
anything to do with Maxum/Bayliner. I have owned a Bayliner and since 3
SeaRays. Try to unload your Maxum or Bayliner to step up and find out about
your operating cost theory. There is a huge market for used Sea Rays, I
traded my 1st two Sea Rays and lost nothing. I had to give the Bayliner
away. You sound like a guy who would like a Sea Ray but you are
rationalizing your decision to buy the cheaper boat. Is the Sea Ray worth
twice as much as the Maxum/Bayliner? Maybe not to you but it is to me, and
few million other boaters better informed than you Knot a Clue.
Sandy
Knot A Chance
Maxum, or a 4200 Maxum to the 420 Sundancer. Basically the same boat. I
did not make the comparison based on similar parent companies. I made it
based on construction and design. Making a claim they were the same based
on a common parent company is ridiculous and I have stated so in earlier
posts.
Engineering wise, I believe the Maxum to have an edge over SeaRay.
I owned a 270 Dancer (84) and 340 Dancer (88) and would say the newer (post
1989) SeaRays nudged down in quality. They are certainly not the Cadillac
of boats. No where near it.
If you read one of my posts in this thread, I call both the Maxum and SeaRay
average boats.
You seem to think the SeaRay is a far better boat than Maxum. Please let me
know why.
JPW wrote in message <7e8s2u$ukg$1...@news3.icx.net>...
Knot A Chance wrote in message <4jKN2.6$AI....@iagnews.iagnet.net>...
><snip>
>
>Now wait a second, logic is something I know enough about to be dangerous
>and it
>sounds like you are a little convoluted here. Many statements can be made
>to
>sound illogical by making them appear to be absolute, which of course
>nothing
>is, but this is a very poor system of arguement, at least in the
>philosophical
>world. The point was that manufacturers will produce products that are
>mostly
>identical, with the difference being how they are packaged or presented to
>the
>consumer. This, I think, is a true statement.
>
><snip>
>
>From what I know of the differences between the Bayliner/Maxum/SeaRay, at
>least in the 30+ foot cruisers, I believe it is fairer to compare Maxum to
>SeaRay. One can safely say a SeaRay is basically the same boat as a Maxum,
>perhaps with some more up scale non essentials in the SeaRay which can
>basically be added to a Maxum as an aftermarket. In some cases, better
>materials in the Maxum.
>
>Happy Easter.
Maxum the same as a Sea Ray, huh? Knot a chance! Have you ever owned a Sea
Knot A Chance
Also read Pascoe on SeaRay Boats, the Searay 390, the Searay 290 and then
4200 Maxum. I am not the only one who shares the view that SeaRay is
putting out a high priced mediocre boat.
As far as resale value, a recent study published in another forum clearly
showed Searay losing a higher percentage over 4 years than Maxum. With so
many SeaRays on the market, it may actually be harder to sell and bring the
price down. Maxums sell very well in my area.
As far as value, please show me how SeaRay commands a much higher dollar
than a comparable Maxum. Please also show me how the SeaRay materials are
better also. (I only speak of 30+ foot cruisers.)
Hey if spending more money for a comparable boat is your thing, more power
to you.
And yes, I owned 2 SeaRays in the past and would never buy another one until
their quality comes in line with their price.
BTW, just so you understand, Maxum is not Bayliner, just as SeaRay is not
Maxum. Get it?
JPW wrote in message <7e8t4u$8dt$1...@news3.icx.net>...
Knot A Chance wrote in message ...
>I am not saying, nor did I ever say that they are identical boats. Molds
>are different. SeaRays tend to have a lower profile and ride lower at the
>transom.
>
>I am saying they are similarly constructed. Both use alternating layers of
>random strand woven roving or bi-axial knits in their hulls and decks. In
>some comparable models/lengths, Maxum actually is a heavier boat. Gasoline
>tank and water tank capacities differ between comparable but are fairly
>close.
>
>Generally SeaRay offers more option packages than Maxum. Non essentials
may
>be gen sets, 12 disk cd changers, windlasses, vacuflush, etc.
>
>Operating costs over the first 4 years is drastically higher on SeaRay due
>generally to the much higher initial cost.
>
>Are you in the market for a 30+ foot cruiser?
>
>
>hkrause wrote in message <370773D3...@erols.com>...
>Knot A Chance wrote:
>>
>> From what I know of the differences between the Bayliner/Maxum/SeaRay, at
>> least in the 30+ foot cruisers, I believe it is fairer to compare Maxum
>to
>> SeaRay. One can safely say a SeaRay is basically the same boat as a
>Maxum,
>> perhaps with some more up scale non essentials in the SeaRay which can
>> basically be added to a Maxum as an aftermarket. In some cases, better
>> materials in the Maxum.
>>
>> Happy Easter.
>
>
Knot A Chance
similarfor comparable models of Maxum and SeaRay. Believe it or not Harry,
some boats, including the larger Maxums, use bi-axial and tri-axial knits.
Quality wise, the hulls/decks of SeaRays and Maxums are comparable.
Annual operating costs generally include depreciation of the vessel over a12
month period. Are you saying this is not true?
True, most cruisers, because of the cabin designs, are bubble boats.
hkrause wrote in message <37079301...@erols.com>...
Knot A Chance wrote:
>
> I am not saying, nor did I ever say that they are identical boats. Molds
> are different. SeaRays tend to have a lower profile and ride lower at the
> transom.
>
> I am saying they are similarly constructed. Both use alternating layers
of
> random strand woven roving or bi-axial knits in their hulls and decks.
In
> some comparable models/lengths, Maxum actually is a heavier boat.
Gasoline
> tank and water tank capacities differ between comparable but are fairly
> close.
Seems to me that most fiberglass boats are built of alternating layers
of fiberglass cloth. Different weights for the same length boats can be
attributed to many factors. So, you're saying Maxums and Sea Rays are
similar because their hulls use conventional fiberglass techniques?
> Generally SeaRay offers more option packages than Maxum. Non essentials
may
> be gen sets, 12 disk cd changers, windlasses, vacuflush, etc.
>
> Operating costs over the first 4 years is drastically higher on SeaRay due
> generally to the much higher initial cost.
Operating cost typically refers to the cost of operation, docking,
repairs, et cetera, not the cost of purchase.
> Are you in the market for a 30+ foot cruiser?
I am in the market for a new, larger boat. If it has a cabin, I suppose
hkrause
>
> What I am saying is that the hull/deck construction techniques are
> similarfor comparable models of Maxum and SeaRay. Believe it or not Harry,
> some boats, including the larger Maxums, use bi-axial and tri-axial knits.
> Quality wise, the hulls/decks of SeaRays and Maxums are comparable.
Hull/deck construction techniques are similar for many boats. Doesn't
mean the fabrics, resins, layup schedules or time in mold is the same.
Virtually all US cars are made out of the same kinds, if not quality, of
parts and built in the same way. You could say their construction
techniques are similar, but it doesn't mean the cars are.
>
> Annual operating costs generally include depreciation of the vessel over a12
> month period. Are you saying this is not true?
For pleasure boaters, it is not true. Further, I doubt if most pleasure
boaters factor in depreciation when they figure out how much it cost
them to run their boat the last year. Assuming they really want to know
what the number is.
>
hkrause
>
> Yes JPW, I am saying you can safely compare the 330 Sundancer to the 3300
> Maxum, or a 4200 Maxum to the 420 Sundancer. Basically the same boat. I
> did not make the comparison based on similar parent companies. I made it
> based on construction and design. Making a claim they were the same based
> on a common parent company is ridiculous and I have stated so in earlier
> posts.
>
> Engineering wise, I believe the Maxum to have an edge over SeaRay.
> I owned a 270 Dancer (84) and 340 Dancer (88) and would say the newer (post
> 1989) SeaRays nudged down in quality. They are certainly not the Cadillac
> of boats. No where near it.
Perhaps you can herein publish your analysis of the engineering readouts
of the Maxum and SeaRay models you wish to compare?
Skipper
> Try to unload your Maxum or Bayliner to step up and find out about
> your operating cost theory.
Bayliner returns a higher percentage of its purchase price than most of
its competitors according to the pricing guides.
--
Skipper
Phoenix
facts are?
--
--
Jim
Tag line thievery ... On the next Geraldo!
Skipper <ski...@DTC.net> wrote in message news:37082134...@DTC.net...
Jim Irvine
Phoenix wrote:
> I have heard this from Skip many times, does anyone really know what the
> facts are?
>
It may have something to do with geographic area or perhaps how far inland you
are.
In Maryland, the Bayliners have an awful trade in value, this I know from
experience.
Phoenix
the reason is because at any given moment their are 25 other people trying
to sell the exact same model, and it becomes a buyers market.
--
--
Jim
20 Dumb Blondes in freezer: Frosted flakes.
Jim Irvine <jrir...@fred.net> wrote in message
news:37082ABB...@fred.net...
Skipper
>> I have heard this from Skip many times, does anyone really know what
>> the facts are?
> It may have something to do with geographic area or perhaps how far
> inland you are.
> In Maryland, the Bayliners have an awful trade in value, this I know
> from experience.
Please review the following extract.
> Re: Bayliner facts anyone?
> Date: 1997/06/18
>> As editor of the ABOS Marine Blue Book (since 1949) I find it
>> interesting how people base their opinions regarding resale. To set
>> the record straight, Bayliners retain a larger percentage of their
>> suggested retail over the years than do most makes. One explanation
>> for that is Bayliner has one of the smallest markups from dealer cost
>> to M.S.R.P. in the industry. ...
--
Skipper
Jerry Bransford
are two different companies that build two distinctly and totally
different boats. The fact that they are both owned by the same company
means nothing. Anyone who would think they are even similar to each
other has been mislead... to put it politely. Heck, the Chapparal
dealer tried to tell me that Searay was OWNED by Bayliner LOL! That's
like saying my step-brother through marriage is my father <g>!
Knot A Chance
SeaRay is so far superior in quality and design to Maxum. He won't be able
to. I can then provide the analysis you requested Harry. What specific
areas do you need compared?
And do you also need a lesson on fiberglass hull construction techniques?
Seems you previously made a claim that most boat hulls are built the same,
just different grades/weights of materials. Correct me if I am wrong.
hkrause wrote in message <37081C95...@erols.com>...
Knot A Chance
differ as you say. Maxum and SeaRay use similar techniques and similar
materials on comparable models.
A boats operating cost may include the loss of value of the vessel for the
year. Although most boaters may not include this (and how many boaters
actually compile an annual operating cost of their vessel?), it does not
translate into a boats depreciation not being allowed to be included in the
annual operating cost.
hkrause wrote in message <37081C14...@erols.com>...
hkrause
>
> But then again, perhaps I shall wait for JPW to come back to me and show how
> SeaRay is so far superior in quality and design to Maxum. He won't be able
> to. I can then provide the analysis you requested Harry. What specific
> areas do you need compared?
Oh, the simple stuff. Hull design, glass layup schedule, time in mold,
number of and strength of bulkheads, materials used for trim, including
doors and windows, engine mounts, weights.
Why don't you compare two popular and similar sized and styled models,
the Maxum 3300 SCR and the SeaRay 330 Sundancer.
The SeaRay is a hair longer and wider, weighs 2,000 pounds more with the
same engines and drives, has a 225 gallon fuel tank instead of Maxum's
179 and is a totally different hull design, even though both boats are
bubble boats.
Why don't you use those specs as your starting point and demonstrate how
the two really are identical in the areas I mentioned?
Remember, the answer is in the details.
hkrause
>
> There are basically 2 types of hull construction techiniques. Materials may
> differ as you say. Maxum and SeaRay use similar techniques and similar
> materials on comparable models.
>
> A boats operating cost may include the loss of value of the vessel for the
> year. Although most boaters may not include this (and how many boaters
> actually compile an annual operating cost of their vessel?), it does not
> translate into a boats depreciation not being allowed to be included in the
> annual operating cost.
I know very few pleasure boaters who figure in "depreciation" in the
annual operating costs of their boats. What would they do with the
figure? On the other hand, I know a lot of commercial charter captains
who do. What's the difference?
Even you should be able to figure that out.
Phoenix
seems very unlikely that if this is true with any one model, it would not be
true across the entire product line.
Without facts, this is nothing more than marketing hype.
--
--
Jim
I want everything; do you have it??
Skipper <ski...@DTC.net> wrote in message news:370833ED...@DTC.net...
hkrause
>
> Jim Irvine wrote:
>
> >> I have heard this from Skip many times, does anyone really know what
> >> the facts are?
>
> > It may have something to do with geographic area or perhaps how far
> > inland you are.
>
> > In Maryland, the Bayliners have an awful trade in value, this I know
> > from experience.
>
> Please review the following extract.
>
> > Re: Bayliner facts anyone?
> > Date: 1997/06/18
>
> >> As editor of the ABOS Marine Blue Book (since 1949) I find it
> >> interesting how people base their opinions regarding resale. To set
> >> the record straight, Bayliners retain a larger percentage of their
> >> suggested retail over the years than do most makes. One explanation
> >> for that is Bayliner has one of the smallest markups from dealer cost
> >> to M.S.R.P. in the industry. ...
>
> --
> Skipper
What you offer is not proof, but conjecture, and on both the points the
editor attempts to make. Remember, there is NO national market or even a
regional market for the sale of used boats, so the pricing data in these
books is based upon anecdotal information. It is not nearly as reliable
as the pricing data for used cars, which is based upon national,
regional and local auctions of actual vehicles. Second, according to a
Bayliner dealer I know, the line markup on Bayliners is the same as on
other brands of boats and, in fact, is sometimes more generous because
of the very large promotional funds Bayliner makes available to try to
move product.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
That's the deal. Take it or leave it.
JDavis1277
>> >> the record straight, Bayliners retain a larger percentage of their
This statement means nothing. Think about it.
Assume for the sake of reaching a point of departure, there are 300 boat
builders in the retail market in the US and Canada.
That would mean that Bayliner retains its value worse than as many as 148 other
builders. :=)
I'll buy that premise, no problem.
Butch
RGrew176
>What else will they tell you? Maxum is their competition. What did the
>Maxum dealer tell you? What did your research show you?
Depends on whom you speak with. There is a dealer in Northern Michigan who
sells both Bayliner and Maxum. According to him they are being built at the
same facilities and share many components. His words, "Bayliner's are like
Ford's and Maxum's are like Mercury's." Mercury being more upscale than Ford
yet basicly both are very similar if not the same...
Many items you have mentioned such as engines, drives and electronics are the
same on Bayliner/Maxum/Sea Ray. So which is the better boat? This is one point
which will be argued and never settled. Opinions vary. To most people the best
boat is the one they own.
Is a Maxum better than a Bayliner or Sea Ray? Who knows. All I can say is that
I have been satisfied with my Bayliners. There have been aspects of each that I
do not care for but all in all they have done everything I have asked them to
do.
Here are some statistics to compare:
Maxum 3000 SCR
Centerline length: 32' 8" includes bow pulpit.
Beam: 9' 11"
Dry weight: 10200 approx w/standard engine.
Fuel Capacity: 150 gal.
Water Capacity: 36 gal.
Holding tank: 30 gal.
Deadrise 18 degrees.
Bayliner 3055 Ciera:
Centerline length: 32' 2" rigged.
Beam: 11'
Dry weight: 11741 lbs.
Fuel capacity: 148 gal.
Water capacity: 35 gal.
Holding tank: 30 gal.
Deadrise: 17 degrees.
What do these statistics show if anything? Depends on your interpretation. The
Maxum w/bow pulpit is longer. The Bayliner is wider. The Bayliner weighs more.
The Maxum has 2 more gallons fuel capacity. the Maxum holds one more gallon
fresh water. The holding tank capacities are the same. The deadrise on the
Maxum is 1 degree more than the Bayliner.
Which is the better boat? That is up to you to decide.
Knot A Chance
boats are built there and I do not know of a Bayliner plant sharing the same
Maxum Marine facilities there. They also do not "share" parts from one
plant. There may be some common purchases by Brunswick for all their boats
for better pricing.
Sounds like some bogus information from the dealer.
RGrew176 wrote in message <19990405143052...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
LouS
Ray. Anyone who regularly reads this ng saw my posts last summer recounting
the nightmare that I call a Sea Ray 190BR. The words Sea Ray and Quality
shouldn't be used in the same sentence. They don't understand the term.
Lou in NH
Knot A Chance
place or is the same boat as SeaRay or that SeaRay had anything to do with
Maxum other than having a common parent company. You seem to be the one who
does not know what you are talking about with this Maxum/Bayliner
comparison. Maxum and Bayliner are different companies, different boats.
Maxum was a small family owned company purchased by Brunswick. What are you
talking about when you said "Maxum was an upscale Bayliner when it started,
I am not sure about now. The maxum added a little nicer finish, seats, etc.
to a Bayliner." So Maxum uses the same hulls as Bayliner but only changes
the name after adding nicer seats? Do you know anything about boats Sandra?
I can tell you that I have been through a SeaRay plant and the Maxum plant.
I spent a full day at each and studied their construction methods. (How
much time did you spend visiting the plants?) Prior to that I spent time
reading about the construction and material of the SeaRay and Maxum boats I
was considering, as well as the Wellcraft.
So tell me just what you know about SeaRay that makes it worth the higher
price than a comparable Maxum. Please also direct me to the posts I made
saying that SeaRay and Maxum are the same boat or made by the same company.
By going from a Bayliner to an over priced SeaRay you are now the expert?
And thanks for not comparing Maxum to SeaRay because you would be insulting
all Maxum owners.
BTW, I will be happy to direct you to a 4 year depreciation study on Maxum
and SeaRay boats (330 and 3200) to show that you really don't have a clue on
what you are talking about on SeaRay resale value. It is not a "theory"
Sandra. I won't even get into the Pascoe flames of the SeaRay boats.
Next time you flame someone, at least know what the hell you are talking
about. Looking forward to your reply. Lets see who is the clueless one
Sandra.
You seem to be the clueless one Sandy.JPW wrote in message
<7e8t4u$8dt$1...@news3.icx.net>...
Knot A Chance wrote in message ...
>I am not saying, nor did I ever say that they are identical boats. Molds
>are different. SeaRays tend to have a lower profile and ride lower at the
>transom.
>
>I am saying they are similarly constructed. Both use alternating layers of
>random strand woven roving or bi-axial knits in their hulls and decks. In
>some comparable models/lengths, Maxum actually is a heavier boat. Gasoline
>tank and water tank capacities differ between comparable but are fairly
>close.
>
>Generally SeaRay offers more option packages than Maxum. Non essentials
may
>be gen sets, 12 disk cd changers, windlasses, vacuflush, etc.
>
>Operating costs over the first 4 years is drastically higher on SeaRay due
>generally to the much higher initial cost.
>
>Are you in the market for a 30+ foot cruiser?
>
>
>hkrause wrote in message <370773D3...@erols.com>...
Jerry Bransford
>
> There are basically 2 types of hull construction techiniques. Materials may
> differ as you say. Maxum and SeaRay use similar techniques and similar
> materials on comparable models.
I'll call you on that... SeaRay totally stopped using wood in their
boats, at least in the sizes I've looked at which is most of their
line... Maxxum still does use wood extensively. That's a pretty basic
but major difference. Hardly "similar techniques and similar
materials".
Knot A Chance
SeaRay uses fiberglass encapsulated wood stringers. When did they start
with all fiberglass stringers? What is the bulkhead construction?
Jerry Bransford wrote in message <3709802F...@home.com>...
Jerry Bransford
Encapsulated wood stringers are completely gone. They did this within
the last few years, maybe just last year. I'll look on their brochure
and see if they say when they switched over and get more details. They
claim there will be no more problems with 'soft decks' etc. with their
new method of construction.
Jerry
Knot A Chance
1. I meant to say US Marine (not Maxum Marine) is located in Everett.
2. The Maxum plant I visited was in Minnesota so I may have been
presumptuous in saying that the Everett site builds Maxum. I have not been
to that site.
Knot A Chance wrote in message ...
None Ya Business
wrote:
Ok, I'll raise you on that one. My brand new 1999 Sea Ray 180BR has
some wood in it. Admittedly it is very little. There is a thin strip
of wood all around the boat where the top half of the boat is attached
to the hull. It appears to be there so the screws that hold it
together have something to bite into?
RGrew176
>Just to clarify a couple of points:
>1. I meant to say US Marine (not Maxum Marine) is located in Everett.
>2. The Maxum plant I visited was in Minnesota so I may have been
>presumptuous in saying that the Everett site builds Maxum. I have not been
>to that site.
Where in Minnesota is the Maxum plant located?