Boston Whaler 21 Ventura??
Greg Parrish
most of my needs for serious fresh/salt fishing, family boating/skiing &
onboard bathroom/creature comforts for wife. I'm not sure of a fully
equipped price for one of these, but would be currious to hear any good/bad
comments or ideas about similar boats of other brands.
Prior to this post, I was considering something like a center console
shamrock, or something, but feel the Ventura will cover more of my needs.
Thanks for any comments.
Greg
gforre...@my-deja.com
> I found this boat while looking at their web site
Hope you won the lottery Greg. Those Whaler Venturas fully equipped
will run you as much as the Shamrock diesel you were thinking about ($40
large). If you are thinking about a dual console boat, there are plenty
of 20 footers to choose from that are better values than the Whaler.
Here are a few to get you started:
Seaswirl Striper 2100
http://www.omc-online.com/scripts/productInfo.asp?BOAT_ID=318
Sea Pro 190 Dual Console
http://www.seaproboats.com/seaproboats/html/prd006.html
Scout 202 Dorado
http://www.scoutboats.com/202dorado.html
Key West 2020 DC
http://www.keywestboatsinc.com/page_10.html#2020 DC-Top
Keep us posted, I am enjoying your search!
...Gordon, Boston
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
JDavis1277
Butch
Greg wrote: >I found this boat while looking at their web site and it appears
Greg Parrish
appealing about the 21 Ventura is the bathroom available. I have yet find
another dual console or 20' range all-around boat with a bathroom. The
Shammy 20 is a great boat, but the keel scares me for freshwater fishing as
well, it will not serve my wifes desires for a bathroom and cruising
comfort/future kids. I am in a big delima as I was anticipating a job move
to the Florida coast and looking at off shore boats to the $125k range, and
now I'm looking at a job move to Little Rock, Arkansas that would involve
lake fishing and the Arkansas River. I'm now faced with 5000 lb towing
limited truck, wife that wants bathroom and lots of cruising comfort/seats,
ability to pull skiers, amenities and safety for future kids, and my desire
to fish heavily. I also want the boat to be coastal ready for the
possiblity of a move back to a coastal location in the near/distant future.
The 21' Ventura seemed to best fit my above needs, but I'm still open to any
other boats that fit the bill. I am still considering some 22' center
consoles or cuddy's however I don't really like 22' cuddys as I feel the
space is basically wasted as the cabin is so small.
Hope I have defined my boat search a little more. Still looking for help.
Thanks
Greg
<gforre...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:82osft$bus$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> "Greg Parrish" <gpar...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> > I found this boat while looking at their web site
>
David S. Pendleton
"Greg Parrish" <gpar...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:J9T34.919$Cd2....@typhoon2.austin.rr.com...
JDavis1277
discussion.
You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler. For that you will have to
pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at resale
time. Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most other
boats. Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an unhappy
owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's pretty
remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have plenty of
unhappy owners.
Buy the Whaler!!
Butch
David wrote: >Buy the Whaler.
hkr...@capuantispam.net
If you can afford it, the quality choice is almost always the Whaler.
--
Harry Krause
------------
I'm cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Jeff C
>As a Whaler owner and certified Whaler Nut I have to add my $.02 worth to the
>discussion.
>
>You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler.
Your opinion. Scout outfits their boats damn well, and they are very
"Whaler-esque." The owner of Scout is an ex BW engineer.
>For that you will have to
>pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at resale
>time.
Not in the case of a Scout.
>Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most other
>boats.
How are "long term maintenance costs" cheaper on a BW? The most
expensive thing to maintain on a boat is the motor, and BW has no
advantages in motors, they use whatever you want (but try to steer you
to Merc)
>Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
>If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an unhappy
>owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's pretty
>remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have plenty of
>unhappy owners.
Don't get me wrong. Whalers are damn nice boats. I could easily find
myself fishing out of one. But they are awful proud of them. There
are lots of other boats out there that will compete directly with BW,
but are not quite as pricey. Edgewater and Scout come to mind, as
they are both run by ex-BW employees.
>
>Buy the Whaler!!
If you can afford it.
Jeff C
Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.
Please respond in Usenet.
gp
owned one. My only draw to the 21' Ventura is the inclusion of a bathroom
on a 21' dual console / fishing / runabout style boat. I figure I can make
the wife happy and me happy. If scout makes a comparable boat with
bathroom, then by all means tell me where to find it. I personally prefer
center consoles, but for freshwater and wife, feel the dual console is
better choice. I look forward to direction to web sites of good freshwater
& saltwater capable boats that meet the needs of a family (bathroom and
seating comfort) as well as serious fisher. Thanks, Greg.
Jeff C wrote in message <38511f89....@news.mindspring.com>...
Louie Kokinis
JDavis1277 <jdavi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991210092624...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> As a Whaler owner and certified Whaler Nut I have to add my $.02 worth to
the
> discussion.
>
> You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler. For that you will have
to
> pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at
resale
> time. Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most
other
> boats. Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
> If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an unhappy
> owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's
pretty
> remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have
plenty of
> unhappy owners.
>
Louie Kokinis
Jeff C <m...@outhouse.com> wrote in message
news:38511f89....@news.mindspring.com...
the
> >discussion.
> >
> >You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler.
>
> "Whaler-esque." The owner of Scout is an ex BW engineer.
>
If I had a nickel for every time someone at the ramp tells me their boat is
whaler-esque.......
Scout is a nice boat - but I wouldn't go as far as comparing the fit -
finish - or quality with Whalers.
> >For that you will have to
> >pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at
resale
> >time.
>
> Not in the case of a Scout.
>
I can't speak for the new hulls, but few would disagree that a used whaler
is probably the most sought after fishing machine. I sold one of my boats
to a family who needed financing. They where considering a wahoo (nice boat)
and my whaler, their banker (speaking from experience) suggested they pay
the premium for the whaler. Bottom line is the Whalers have a reputation
that most boat manufactures can only dream of.
> >Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most other
> >boats.
>
> How are "long term maintenance costs" cheaper on a BW? The most
> expensive thing to maintain on a boat is the motor, and BW has no
> advantages in motors, they use whatever you want (but try to steer you
> to Merc)
>
You will have to look hard to find a whaler that didn't stand the test of
time better than most other boats on the water.
> >Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
> >If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an
unhappy
> >owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's
pretty
> >remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have
plenty of
> >unhappy owners.
>
> Don't get me wrong. Whalers are damn nice boats. I could easily find
> myself fishing out of one. But they are awful proud of them. There
> are lots of other boats out there that will compete directly with BW,
> but are not quite as pricey. Edgewater and Scout come to mind, as
> they are both run by ex-BW employees.
>
Caddilac competes with Mercedes and Honda competes with Harley. Both
Caddilac and Honda make great products, but given the opportunity most Caddi
and Honda drivers would switch - while considering it an upgrade. I guess
the question is.......If you where presented the opportunity to trade your
Scout (straight across) for a similar Whaler - would you do it? (would you
feel that you traded up or down?)
Louie
JDavis1277
I pretty much agree with your POV on Whalers. As you indicated, they are the
best if somewhat pricy.
I like Scouts too. I could very well have bought one if the dealer had been
willing to sell me one rigged with a FICHT instead of a Yamaha. I think they
are very Whaleresque (sp?) too.
I must disagree on Edgewaters. Decent boat but not in the same class with
Scout and Whaler. Nice designs, but the execution, IMO, is not on the same
level.
As the original poster indicated the prices for Whalers were not intimidating
to him, I think he would be sorely challenged to do much better.
Butch
Jeff wrote: >On 10 Dec 1999 14:26:24 GMT, jdavi...@aol.com (JDavis1277)
wrote:
>
>>As a Whaler owner and certified Whaler Nut I have to add my $.02 worth to
>the
>>discussion.
>>
>>You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler.
>
>Your opinion. Scout outfits their boats damn well, and they are very
>"Whaler-esque." The owner of Scout is an ex BW engineer.
>
>>For that you will have to
>>pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at resale
>>time.
>
>Not in the case of a Scout.
>
>>Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most other
>>boats.
>
>How are "long term maintenance costs" cheaper on a BW? The most
>expensive thing to maintain on a boat is the motor, and BW has no
>advantages in motors, they use whatever you want (but try to steer you
>to Merc)
>
>>Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
>>If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an unhappy
>>owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's pretty
>>remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have plenty
>of
>>unhappy owners.
>
>Don't get me wrong. Whalers are damn nice boats. I could easily find
>myself fishing out of one. But they are awful proud of them. There
>are lots of other boats out there that will compete directly with BW,
>but are not quite as pricey. Edgewater and Scout come to mind, as
>they are both run by ex-BW employees.
>
>>
Chuck Tribolet
gp wrote:
>
> As the original poster, I'm not in love with Boston Whaler, as I have never
> owned one. My only draw to the 21' Ventura is the inclusion of a bathroom
> on a 21' dual console / fishing / runabout style boat. I figure I can make
> the wife happy and me happy. If scout makes a comparable boat with
> bathroom, then by all means tell me where to find it. I personally prefer
> center consoles, but for freshwater and wife, feel the dual console is
> better choice. I look forward to direction to web sites of good freshwater
> & saltwater capable boats that meet the needs of a family (bathroom and
> seating comfort) as well as serious fisher. Thanks, Greg.
>
> Jeff C wrote in message <38511f89....@news.mindspring.com>...
> >Jeff C
> >
> >Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.
> >Please respond in Usenet.
> >
--
Chuck Tribolet
Internet: tri...@garlic.com
http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet
Silicon Valley: Best day job in the world.
Glenn Engstrom
They look like great boats but I found several things I did not like. A
couple of the problem were minor like loose rails (could indicate a lack of
attention detail), small fish boxes, minimal room for electronics.
What I did buy (after waiting awhile for a better deal) was a 23 foot center
console made by Ranger Boats. They have a sportfisherman series that I like
alot. If you would consider a center console give them a look. They have a
web site http://www.rangerboats.com or you can look my web page (fairly
new) http://engstrom.home.worldnet.att.net/BOATING.htm
I am really pleased with the construction, quality,ride, ... I guess
everyone likes their own boats.
Glenn
"Chuck Tribolet" <tri...@garlic.com> wrote in message
news:3851AD5D...@garlic.com...
hkr...@capuantispam.net
>
> The Boston Whaler 21' Outrage has an optional head inside the console.
>
You mean a porti-potty? Or a plumbed head?
--
Harry Krause
------------
Rings of Saturn are made entirely of lost airline luggage.
Greg Parrish
another boat in question. The sea ray 210 dual console. Any comments or
comparisons to the whaler? Does the Sea Ray 210 have a head? Thanks again
for all the great posts. Greg.
Louie Kokinis <kok...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:38518...@news1.prserv.net...
> ditto
>
>
> JDavis1277 <jdavi...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:19991210092624...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> > As a Whaler owner and certified Whaler Nut I have to add my $.02 worth
to
> the
> > discussion.
> >
> > You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler. For that you will
have
> to
> > pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at
> resale
> > time. Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most
> other
> > boats. Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
> > If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an
unhappy
> > owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's
> pretty
> > remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have
> plenty of
> > unhappy owners.
> >
David Smalley
>
> As the original poster, I'm not in love with Boston Whaler, as I have never
Being that you insist on calling it a bathroom I think you should buy
the Ventura. 8^)
--
DAVe
Raymond Spinelli
like about the Whaler," or because the price was much, much less than a
comparable Whaler? There are "several things that I don't like" about
Mercedes Benzes, but I drive and Oldsmobile because of the price/value.
The bottom line: if you want the best boat that you can buy with the
absolute highest resale value, then buy the Whaler....and expect to pay
alot.
Glenn Engstrom <engs...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:82sb9p$lnl$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> I was looking at Boston Whalers for awhile before buying something else.
> They look like great boats but I found several things I did not like. A
> couple of the problem were minor like loose rails (could indicate a lack
of
> attention detail), small fish boxes, minimal room for electronics.
>
> What I did buy (after waiting awhile for a better deal) was a 23 foot
center
> console made by Ranger Boats. They have a sportfisherman series that I
like
> alot. If you would consider a center console give them a look. They have a
> web site http://www.rangerboats.com or you can look my web page (fairly
> new) http://engstrom.home.worldnet.att.net/BOATING.htm
>
> I am really pleased with the construction, quality,ride, ... I guess
> everyone likes their own boats.
>
> Glenn
>
> "Chuck Tribolet" <tri...@garlic.com> wrote in message
> news:3851AD5D...@garlic.com...
> > The Boston Whaler 21' Outrage has an optional head inside the console.
> >
> > gp wrote:
> > >
> > > As the original poster, I'm not in love with Boston Whaler, as I have
> never
> > > owned one. My only draw to the 21' Ventura is the inclusion of a
> bathroom
> > > on a 21' dual console / fishing / runabout style boat. I figure I can
> make
> > > the wife happy and me happy. If scout makes a comparable boat with
> > > bathroom, then by all means tell me where to find it. I personally
> prefer
> > > center consoles, but for freshwater and wife, feel the dual console is
> > > better choice. I look forward to direction to web sites of good
> freshwater
> > > & saltwater capable boats that meet the needs of a family (bathroom
and
> > > seating comfort) as well as serious fisher. Thanks, Greg.
> > >
> > > Jeff C wrote in message <38511f89....@news.mindspring.com>...
> > > >On 10 Dec 1999 14:26:24 GMT, jdavi...@aol.com (JDavis1277) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>As a Whaler owner and certified Whaler Nut I have to add my $.02
worth
> to
> > > the
> > > >>discussion.
> > > >>
> > > >>You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler.
> > > >
> > > >Your opinion. Scout outfits their boats damn well, and they are very
> > > >"Whaler-esque." The owner of Scout is an ex BW engineer.
> > > >
> > > >>For that you will have to
> > > >>pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at
> > > resale
> > > >>time.
> > > >
> > > >Not in the case of a Scout.
> > > >
> > > >>Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most
> other
> > > >>boats.
> > > >
> > > >How are "long term maintenance costs" cheaper on a BW? The most
> > > >expensive thing to maintain on a boat is the motor, and BW has no
> > > >advantages in motors, they use whatever you want (but try to steer
you
> > > >to Merc)
> > > >
> > > >>Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
> > > >>If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an
> unhappy
> > > >>owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's
> > > pretty
> > > >>remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders
have
> > > plenty of
> > > >>unhappy owners.
> > > >
hkr...@capuantispam.net
I've seen a few 23' and 25' Ranger center console sportfishing boats.
They look pretty tough. Roland Martin has one...or at least had one, a
25 footer that I got to climb aboard at his resort on the Big O.
Incidentally, if you ever fish down there, consider Roland's place. It's
very nice, not posh, well-equipped and not expensive. When we stayed
there, it was about $55 a night for a good motel type room, plus a few
dollars a night for a covered slip in his marina. Roland has enormous
live shiner tanks, a place to get breakfast and a pretty darned good
tackle/sportswear store on the premises. And a purple martin house whose
sounds are piped inside the store via microphones.
Pletty sleepy town. Not much there but bass fishing.
--
Harry Krause
------------
You're about as subtle as an axe between the eyes.
Glenn Engstrom
and the Ranger were listing for about the same amount of money. The quality
I believed to be equal (forgiving the loose items on the whaler as being a
dealer problem). The lack of space for equipment and small fish boxes on the
whaler did bother me. I knew that my better half would not agree to me
spending $45,000 - 50,000 on a new boat, what helped out was that the
Ranger was new but had set at the dealer for a couple years so that the
price became more affordable. If not for the price break I still would be
using my 1981 SeaRay 210CC for fishing Lake Michigan.
When I was looking at boats last winter at shows and dealers, I tried to
cover almost every inch of each boat, what I could not see directly I would
reach into, feel around trying to determine how well the construction was
done,how easy it would be to maintain, rig gear. Where were the inspection
ports, what was under each. After doing this with the Ranger, I had no
complaints. It has been easy to rig gear, run wires, and is well layed out
for fishing. As for the ride, a couple of my buddies who spent a
considerable amount of time in the old SeaRay getting pounded in rough water
remarked how the Ranger handled the rough water so smoothly.
I guess you can tell that I am "nuts" about this boat, but hardly no one
around here (Chicago area) have center console boats to begin with, much
less one like this. Which also means that the resale value of the boat is
difficult to determine in this area, but I do not intend to get rid of it
for a long time anyhow. Over the summer a couple guys from Florida stopped
by the boat (after pulling boat out of water) to tell me that they had the
25 foot version back in Florida and that they loved there boats also.
Glenn
"Raymond Spinelli" <rayd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:82uqmn$qoi$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
NOYB
suspect that the 23' Conquest comes in closer to $55-$60000 new. Not sure
what an equally equipped Ranger sells for....
Glenn Engstrom <engs...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:82v8an$1tj$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
Jeff C
I also looked at the Rangers, and was pretty impressed with their
designs. There are some king mackeral tournament fishermen that use
them, but I don't see too many of them here (NC).
Jeff C
<kok...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>.
>Jeff C <m...@outhouse.com> wrote in message
>news:38511f89....@news.mindspring.com...
>> On 10 Dec 1999 14:26:24 GMT, jdavi...@aol.com (JDavis1277) wrote:
>>
>> >As a Whaler owner and certified Whaler Nut I have to add my $.02 worth to
>the
>> >discussion.
>> >
>> >You cannot buy a better stock boat than a Whaler.
>>
>> Your opinion. Scout outfits their boats damn well, and they are very
>> "Whaler-esque." The owner of Scout is an ex BW engineer.
>>
>
>If I had a nickel for every time someone at the ramp tells me their boat is
>whaler-esque.......
>
>Scout is a nice boat - but I wouldn't go as far as comparing the fit -
>finish - or quality with Whalers.
Then you havent' looked at very many Scouts. I couldn't find a boat
that had *better* fit and finish than the 20' Scout I bought. And I
looked for a year.
>
>
>> >For that you will have to
>> >pay a higher initial price. Much of the outlay will be recovered at
>resale
>> >time.
>>
>> Not in the case of a Scout.
>>
>
>I can't speak for the new hulls, but few would disagree that a used whaler
>is probably the most sought after fishing machine. I sold one of my boats
>to a family who needed financing. They where considering a wahoo (nice boat)
>and my whaler, their banker (speaking from experience) suggested they pay
>the premium for the whaler. Bottom line is the Whalers have a reputation
>that most boat manufactures can only dream of.
It depends on where you are. I don't think used Whalers are the most
sought after fishing boats in NC. Not with Grady's, Albemarles,
Parkers, Regulators, Hydra Sports, and Contenders on the market. From
my observation, I see a LOT more GW's than I do Whalers. It's not
even close.
>
>
>> >Your long term maintenance costs will be much lower than for most other
>> >boats.
>>
>> How are "long term maintenance costs" cheaper on a BW? The most
>> expensive thing to maintain on a boat is the motor, and BW has no
>> advantages in motors, they use whatever you want (but try to steer you
>> to Merc)
>>
>
>You will have to look hard to find a whaler that didn't stand the test of
>time better than most other boats on the water.
>
You didn't answer the question. What, specifically, on a BW gives it
a much lower long term maintenance cost?
>
>> >Whaler stands behind the product better than most.
>> >If you go to a LOT of trouble you will probably be able to find an
>unhappy
>> >owner or few. Considering the number ofWhalers in the world, that's
>pretty
>> >remarkable. OTOH, with very, very few exceptions other builders have
>plenty of
>> >unhappy owners.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong. Whalers are damn nice boats. I could easily find
>> myself fishing out of one. But they are awful proud of them. There
>> are lots of other boats out there that will compete directly with BW,
>> but are not quite as pricey. Edgewater and Scout come to mind, as
>> they are both run by ex-BW employees.
>>
>
>Caddilac competes with Mercedes and Honda competes with Harley. Both
>Caddilac and Honda make great products, but given the opportunity most Caddi
>and Honda drivers would switch - while considering it an upgrade. I guess
>the question is.......If you where presented the opportunity to trade your
>Scout (straight across) for a similar Whaler - would you do it? (would you
>feel that you traded up or down?)
No. I wouldn't trade. Not for the same size boat (20') I looked for
a year to find the boat that best fit my current style of boating, and
the Scout was it. I looked at the BW, and I looked at GW. The Scout
had the best ergonomics, features, and fit and finish. As far as your
analogy, Scout in *no* way is a Honda and Caddie compared to a Harley
or Mercedes Whaler.
Louie Kokinis
> >Jeff C <m...@outhouse.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Then you havent' looked at very many Scouts. I couldn't find a boat
> that had *better* fit and finish than the 20' Scout I bought. And I
> looked for a year.
<snip>
> You didn't answer the question. What, specifically, on a BW gives it
> a much lower long term maintenance cost?
<snip>
It's possible that we looked at different areas - in my eye comfort,
ergonomics, weather protection and non-functional features take a back seat
to construction, seaworthiness and durability. I also looked at everything
from Grady to Fountain (including Scout) before ordering my boat . I didn't
mean to imply that Scout makes a bad boat, just that the fit / finish and
quality of materials wasn't up to the standards of what is available from
whaler. for example
the cleats are all 10"
2 1/2" rub rails
1 1/4 inch rails
1/2" gunnels are and are glued down with added strength of over 45 screws
fastening them to the boat
the console has over 30 extra screws securing it to the floor
the floor has over 50 screws for extra strength
(all the screws and fittings are chrome plated stainless)
the hatches are bomar aluminum - they secure tightly - nothing rattles
the boat is not white (white is a high maintenance color) .
the gel coat used is commercial grade
the wiring harness is all heavy gauge - fastened like an aircraft - and
clean
The boat is built to withstand constant abuse - I couldn't find this with
any other manufacturer.
<snip>
> It depends on where you are. I don't think used Whalers are the most
> sought after fishing boats in NC. Not with Grady's, Albemarles,
> Parkers, Regulators, Hydra Sports, and Contenders on the market. From
> my observation, <snip>
<snip>
I don't doubt you, But Whalers reputation is more of a global vs regional
entity. It's possible that in your part of the world that people will go out
of their way to buy a used Scout before they look at a whaler. I don't want
to get into the "my boat is better than your boat" thing - its counter
productive.
<snip>
I see a LOT more GW's than I do Whalers. It's not
> even close.
<snip>
That means little. Washington State has more Bayliners floating around, than
Grady, Whaler, Scout, and Fountain combined.
<snip>
> No. I wouldn't trade. Not for the same size boat (20') I looked for
> a year to find the boat that best fit my current style of boating, and
> the Scout was it. I looked at the BW, and I looked at GW. The Scout
> had the best ergonomics, features, and fit and finish. As far as your
> analogy, Scout in *no* way is a Honda and Caddie compared to a Harley
> or Mercedes Whaler.
<snip>
Ok - I was trying to make a point - didn't mean to offend you.
Jeff C
<kok...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> >Jeff C <m...@outhouse.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>> Then you havent' looked at very many Scouts. I couldn't find a boat
>> that had *better* fit and finish than the 20' Scout I bought. And I
>> looked for a year.
><snip>
>> You didn't answer the question. What, specifically, on a BW gives it
>> a much lower long term maintenance cost?
><snip>
>
>
>It's possible that we looked at different areas - in my eye comfort,
>ergonomics, weather protection and non-functional features take a back seat
>to construction, seaworthiness and durability. I also looked at everything
>from Grady to Fountain (including Scout) before ordering my boat . I didn't
>mean to imply that Scout makes a bad boat, just that the fit / finish and
>quality of materials wasn't up to the standards of what is available from
>whaler. for example
I certainly disagree on the fit and finish, and will cover your
materials below.
>
>the cleats are all 10"
Not sure of the length, but the spring line cleats easily hold fore
and aft 5/8" spring lines. And they are back plated, as most are
nowadays.
>2 1/2" rub rails
Not sure of the height/thickness of my rub rails either, but I would
guess they are close to that. They have no problems with my guides on
my trailer. As for docks, I haven't bumped any *yet*, so time will
tell.
>1 1/4 inch rails
Don't think Scout uses 1 1/4" rails, but I'm not sure. I would guess
1 1/8" or 1". I keep my boat in storage, so I have no way to check.
>1/2" gunnels are and are glued down with added strength of over 45 screws
>fastening them to the boat
Scout hulls are bonded, as are the vast majority of boats. The screws
are more for providing clamping force for the adhesive, and really
don't serve much purpose once the adhesive is cured. The bond between
the adhesive and the hull/deck joint (using Plexus or similar
adhesive) is stronger than the laminate itself. Attempting to pull
them apart will rip the fiberglass to shreds. My father used to sell
Plexus adhesives to the automotive and boating industries, and I have
seen with my own two eyes how strong the stuff is.
>the console has over 30 extra screws securing it to the floor
Don't know how many my console has, but it is probably close to 30.
The console on a Scout is held in with adhesive and screws in such a
manner to facilitate removal in the case that you need to replace your
fuel tank. Screwing the console down as a seperate piece means you
don't have to cut up your floor if you need to replace the tank.
>the floor has over 50 screws for extra strength
My floor has no screws in it, save for the console. I don't really
think adding screws, as opposed to adding structure, adds strength.
Screws are a fastening device, not a structural device.
>(all the screws and fittings are chrome plated stainless
As are Scout's
>the hatches are bomar aluminum - they secure tightly - nothing rattles
Scout's are hand laid fiberglass, gelcoated on both sides. Nothing
rattles on my boat either, unless I launch off of a rogue wave or
large wake. The rattle is more of a function of whatever is in my bow
locker slamming into the lid though.
>the boat is not white (white is a high maintenance color) .
Scouts are almond in color. I agree about the maintenance, but it is
harder to find accessories like rodholders or toolholders made from
almond colored Starboard.
>the gel coat used is commercial grade
Scout uses Lilly Industries gelcoats, 20mils thick. "Commercial"
grade is rather ambiguous.
>the wiring harness is all heavy gauge - fastened like an aircraft - and
>clean
Scout uses tinned marine wiring of appropriate guage, all butt
connectors are heat shrunk. They also use circuit breakers instead of
fuses. On my model, the breaker switches are even installed to
minimize exposure to weather and spray.
>The boat is built to withstand constant abuse - I couldn't find this with
>any other manufacturer.
I don't know how to refute that. BW's are great boats that are built
extremely well. Is my Scout up to constant abuse? Who knows. I
wouldn't do that to my boat. Has it performed flawlessly for me?
Yes, in oceans, bays, rivers, lakes, waterways.
Other things found on Scouts, and probably other high quality boats:
*hinges are recessed
*no wood
*knitted fabrics, which provide strength in all directions, not just
*two directions like woven roving
*large tankage for their size (my 20' boat has 92 gallon tank)
*all compartments/bilge are finished and gelcoated. The only raw
unfinished fiberglass to be found is found by sticking your head into
the bilge and looking up at the bottom of the deck.
Things I really liked in addition to the above, and still do:
*aft "jump" seats, permanently mounted out of the way, with grab
handles
*unsinkable design
*ergonomics, things are where they should be, handles where you need
them
*it is the most passenger friendly 20' center console I could find.
It's capacity is eight, and there are seats for eight. Amazing.
*ride and speed. It's a fast boat, even with a 150.
*storage is good for a 20' CC.
*access to bilge through a hatch, not an inspection port. I can get
both arms down to the bilge pump or aerator pump if I need to change
it. Many boats give you an 8" inspection port for that purpose.
>
><snip>
>> It depends on where you are. I don't think used Whalers are the most
>> sought after fishing boats in NC. Not with Grady's, Albemarles,
>> Parkers, Regulators, Hydra Sports, and Contenders on the market. From
>> my observation, <snip>
><snip>
>
>I don't doubt you, But Whalers reputation is more of a global vs regional
>entity. It's possible that in your part of the world that people will go out
>of their way to buy a used Scout before they look at a whaler.
I'd be a fool to insinuate that Scout has anywhere near the boats out
on the market as BW. They don't, and never will. I'd also be a fool
to insinuate that BW's, both new and used, aren't desirable boats.
They are, and command higher prices because of it.
The big reason I see so many GW's is probably because of their
reputation, and their locality. It's no more than a 3-4 hour drive to
their *plant* from our coast. It's a "local" boat here, but is well
known anywhere salty.
>I don't want
>to get into the "my boat is better than your boat" thing - its counter
>productive.
I agree. I'm not saying "my boat is better than your boat" or anyone
else's boat. I'm just saying there are plenty of alternatives to a
BW.
><snip>
> I see a LOT more GW's than I do Whalers. It's not
>> even close.
><snip>
>
>That means little. Washington State has more Bayliners floating around, than
>Grady, Whaler, Scout, and Fountain combined.
Agree. See above.
>
>
><snip>
>> No. I wouldn't trade. Not for the same size boat (20') I looked for
>> a year to find the boat that best fit my current style of boating, and
>> the Scout was it. I looked at the BW, and I looked at GW. The Scout
>> had the best ergonomics, features, and fit and finish. As far as your
>> analogy, Scout in *no* way is a Honda and Caddie compared to a Harley
>> or Mercedes Whaler.
><snip>
>
>Ok - I was trying to make a point - didn't mean to offend you.
You didn't offend me.
Louie Kokinis
process, nor the products they use. A pet peeve of mine is unfinished
glasswork - every boat I looked at had some areas that were not gelled over
(The worst was Grady). This was the only visible area to compare finish, any
manufacturer who cuts a corner here, may be cutting other corners not so
visible. My boat is gelled everywhere. As for comparing cleat sizes and
number of screws - we're probably both getting ahead of ourselves. All the
boats in this discussion have a good dealer network, I'm sure that any
small details missed at the factory would be fixed at the dealer level -
with no resistance from the dealer or manufacturer.
Will yours weather time better - I don't know. I think both boats have the
potential to outlive our boating lives. The reason I think Whaler will stand
the test of time better, is simply because the boats are built (with
warrantee) for commercial use. I will never dish out the punishment or lack
of cosmetic care the military or police will.
After selling my old Whaler my first choice was a Scarab Sport. The dealer
was (and still is) a gentleman, he was respectful of all brands, including
Bayliner, a sincere type that I will allways recomend to people. I was down
to the nitty gritty when I had my lawyer go over their warrantee, and backed
out of the deal. The Scout and Grady dealers arrogance turned me off - both
bashed every other brand (including Whaler) essentially calling me an idiot
for owning Whalers. I figured that calling me an idiot (or bashing their
competitors) wasn't any way to get my hard earned money.
Your passion about Scout is commendable...you bought exactly what you
wanted, and are happy with it. Like you, I wouldn't trade mine for any other
boat its size.
Louie
Jeff C
Thanks, Louie, for an engaging discussion of both of our boats. I
completely agree with everything you have said above. Sounds like we
both got the best boat we could find!
gp
really appreciate everyones input. I'm still leaning towards the whaler if
I decide on a dual console boat, due as I said before to the included head
compartment with private pottie. However, I'm interested in seeing the
scout boats for myself. Is there a website? I like the Grady white boats
as well, but didn't find a model with the available head. It's awful hard
to please me and the wife.
As a side note, to the comment about the builder cutting corners by not
glassing the entire inside of the boat. I'd have to say that the cut
corners are sometimes reflected in the price. By that I mean if you are
buying a boat that is way less than the average going cost of other boats
the same length, there must be some cost cutting somewhere. Now does not
having gel coat on the fiberglass that I can't see effect the strength,
longevity, value, etc of the boat???? I don't know. I'm sure it's easier to
clean, but who knows.
Jeff C wrote in message <38555a23....@news.mindspring.com>...
Jeff C
wrote:
>Original Poster Here. I am astounded by all the response to this post. I
>really appreciate everyones input.
Just two boat owners, proud of their respective boats. And rightly
so.
>I'm still leaning towards the whaler if
>I decide on a dual console boat, due as I said before to the included head
>compartment with private pottie. However, I'm interested in seeing the
>scout boats for myself. Is there a website? I like the Grady white boats
>as well, but didn't find a model with the available head. It's awful hard
>to please me and the wife.
Scout is at www.scoutboats.com. They don't, as far as I know, offer a
head compartment in any of their boats. That option will be rather
limited on most 21' boats. How much storage space do you sacrifice on
a 21' boat by having an enclosed head? Do you really think you'll use
it that much?
gp
We were looking to moving to the Florida area and were considering much
larger boats, and then it wasn't a problem to meet both needs, however in
the area it looks like we will be moving to now, we will need a trailerable
smaller boat, but she insists it must have the head.
Limits me as my truck is a nissan crew cab 2wd rated at 5000 lbs towing.
Figure I've got about a 3000 - 3500 range for boat & trailer weight to stay
within my total weight. I might resort back to a 22 - 23 console to get the
bathroom, but it will mean a little sacrafice in cruising comfort for her.
Guess she can't have everything.
Who all makes 21 - 23 center consoles with head compartment that would
accomodate fresh and later salt water fishing well?
Jeff C wrote in message <38556d38....@news.mindspring.com>...
Louie Kokinis
gp <gpar...@NOSPAM.geocities.com> wrote
<snip>
> As a side note, to the comment about the builder cutting corners by not
> glassing the entire inside of the boat. I'd have to say that the cut
> corners are sometimes reflected in the price. By that I mean if you are
> buying a boat that is way less than the average going cost of other boats
> the same length, there must be some cost cutting somewhere. Now does not
> having gel coat on the fiberglass that I can't see effect the strength,
> longevity, value, etc of the boat???? I don't know. I'm sure it's easier
to
> clean, but who knows.
I don't think it makes any difference structurally. In my opinion it looks
better, you're less prone to catch a fiber glass splinter while cleaning or
rigging, and items crammed into corners will not be damaged. The "cut
corners" aren't always reflected in the price, my first experience with
fiberglass splinters was while checking out a Grady White.
Louie
Louie Kokinis
gp <gpar...@NOSPAM.geocities.com> wrote
<snip>
> Who all makes 21 - 23 center consoles with head compartment that would
> accomodate fresh and later salt water fishing well?
We are seeing more and more CC's on lakes. Because its our only boat, we
take it to the lake every summer. My kids learned to ski and board behind a
whaler, we use it as a swimming platform, and occasionally drop a line. A
center console is a great boat to fish from in the lake or the ocean. This
summer I had my Brother, his wife and 2 kids, along with my wife and 2 kids
fishing on the lake.
<snip>
>I might resort back to a 22 - 23 console to get the
>bathroom, but it will mean a little sacrafice in cruising comfort for her.
>Guess she can't have everything.
<snip>
We have yet to use the porta-potti to the lake, but do take one with us when
we go offshore. Its had limited use (strict U use U clean policy). I bought
a small one at walmart, and use a couple of bungies to hold it down. I hate
using it, cleaning it, and everything else about it - but its a necessary
evil when families are involved (for fishing and camping).
Most center consoles have lots of spare room to fasten a porta-potti.
Chuck Tribolet
SHE'll use it.
Jeff C wrote:
How much storage space do you sacrifice on
> a 21' boat by having an enclosed head? Do you really think you'll use
> it that much?
--
BillS
Towed weight full of gas is around 5500 lbs, but I have twin outboards and you
can get it rigged with a single.
BillS.
gp wrote:
> I'm not thinking I'll use it at all, but the wife thinks it's a necessity.
> We were looking to moving to the Florida area and were considering much
> larger boats, and then it wasn't a problem to meet both needs, however in
> the area it looks like we will be moving to now, we will need a trailerable
> smaller boat, but she insists it must have the head.
>
> Limits me as my truck is a nissan crew cab 2wd rated at 5000 lbs towing.
> Figure I've got about a 3000 - 3500 range for boat & trailer weight to stay
> within my total weight. I might resort back to a 22 - 23 console to get the
> bathroom, but it will mean a little sacrafice in cruising comfort for her.
> Guess she can't have everything.
>
> Who all makes 21 - 23 center consoles with head compartment that would
> accomodate fresh and later salt water fishing well?
>
> Jeff C wrote in message <38556d38....@news.mindspring.com>...
> >On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:53:24 GMT, "gp" <gpar...@NOSPAM.geocities.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Original Poster Here. I am astounded by all the response to this post. I
> >>really appreciate everyones input.
> >
> >Just two boat owners, proud of their respective boats. And rightly
> >so.
> >
> >>I'm still leaning towards the whaler if
> >>I decide on a dual console boat, due as I said before to the included head
> >>compartment with private pottie. However, I'm interested in seeing the
> >>scout boats for myself. Is there a website? I like the Grady white boats
> >>as well, but didn't find a model with the available head. It's awful hard
> >>to please me and the wife.
> >
> >Scout is at www.scoutboats.com. They don't, as far as I know, offer a
> >head compartment in any of their boats. That option will be rather
> >limited on most 21' boats. How much storage space do you sacrifice on
> >a 21' boat by having an enclosed head? Do you really think you'll use
> >it that much?
> >
gforre...@my-deja.com
> Who all makes 21 - 23 center consoles with head compartment that would
> accomodate fresh and later salt water fishing well?
Just from my own recollection, all these center console boats have a
walk-in console that will accomodate a porta-potty:
Ranger 230C
Pro-Line 220
ProSports 2200CC
Robalo 2220
Hydra-Sports Vector 2000
Hydra-Sports Vector 2250
Sport-Craft 210
Cobia 224
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joseph M Tyson
Someone wondered. . .
: > Who all makes 21 - 23 center consoles with head compartment that would
: > accomodate fresh and later salt water fishing well?
Parker 2300 Big T. 23' x 8'6" tunnel drive with a head in console big enough
for me 6'4" 270.
gp
Joseph M Tyson wrote in message <38569...@news1.prserv.net>...