Bayliner controversial
greg...@my-deja.com
so many passionate posts. I went to a marina that sells Bayliner and
Stingray. I did not meet one thoroughly disgruntled Bayliner owner, but
did talk to several unhappy Stingray owners. Most Bayliner owners that
had complaints were about being underpowered with the base engine. I
also have noticed that most negative posts come from non-Bayliner
owners. Please correct me if I am wrong on that. The owner of the
marina said the good thing about Bayliner is that they allow neophytes
like me to get into boating relatively cheap. The down-side is that
means that there are a lot of first timers out there that treat the
boat incorrectly, and then blame Bayliner when something goes wrong. So
come on what is the truth out there? Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
maintained, or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
here would lead you to believe?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
H Krause
> Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
> boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
> maintained, or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
> here would lead you to believe?
If you are talking about the smaller Bayliners and Trophies, the answer to
your first question is Yes, and the answer to your second question also is
Yes.
The larger Bayliners are built to a better standard than the smaller ones.
Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing ploy.
It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized boats that
have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel as if he is
getting a better buy. Check fuel tank size, too.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
NY cops go bar-hopping; LA cops go night-clubbing.
Gould 0738
>Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
>boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
>maintained, or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
>here would lead you to believe?
There is no such thing as a "Bayliner". At least from the perspective that a
single quality standard prevails across the entire
product spectrum regardless of model or price range. Even some of the harshest
critics of certain Bayliner models have been known to state that there are some
fair or better boats around with the Bayliiner logo on them.
Are Bayliners generally ok? Yes. Particularly if, like any boat, they are
purchased with a clear picture of the intended usage in mind and restricted to
the types of conditions for which they are suitable.
Will they give a few good years of service if properly maintained? Yes, again.
While a lot of the components and hardware used by many companies dedicated to
building
boats aimed squarely at particular price points are of something less than
average
integrity, the engine in a Bayliner will be as reliable as the same engine in
any other brand of boat (if "properly maintained").
The other systems will all last a few to several years, at which point an entry
level boat has commonly been resold and its somebody else's problem, anyway.
Brunswick makes some curious choices with fit and finish even in some of the
larger models (do they think the public is blind or stupid?), but the boats can
be considered
generally sound and suitable for use under
conditions when most of us pleasure boaters have any real business being out.
Best boats in the world they are not. And far from it. Most of us don't have
the luxury of being able to afford a custom built blue water yacht for a few
$million; and most of us don't need one, either. Bayliners have a legitimate
place as the sea-going Chevy's
of the world.
There are a lot of comments from Bayliner owners at www.boattalk.com. Hundreds,
if I remember right. A peek in there will find
a few rants, some raves, but overall a reasonably well satisfied group of boat
owners who purchased something adequate for having fun on the water in.
________
Chuck Gould
Float and let float.
Richard Eriksson
>
> I am a newbie to this forum, and would like to know why Bayliner
> causes so many passionate posts.
(rest snipped)
Having never owned a Bayliner or inspected one carefully, I really
can't make an educated judgement regarding the various claims.
I almost bought a used 25 footer 3 years ago, but the seller did
not accept my offer. Last I knew, he still had it for sale.
The most significant issue is probably the stigma to which you
allude to, and could hurt if you purchase new. Justified or not,
it seems that new Bayliners become difficult to sell a couple of
years later without taking a serious loss. Other than that, the
smiles I see on Bayliner owner's faces around the marina look the
same as the smiles of those with much more expensive boats.
Eisboch
N.L. Eckert
looked for a 21 ft boat that I could trail and spend time on, sort of
camping on water. 2 boats fit the criteria.
The 21 ft. Sea Ray Seville mid cabin and the 2 ft.Bayliner Ciera mid
cabin. I got a price directly from the owner of the Sea Ray dealer, so
I'm sure it was his best deal. The SR came with a V6 engine, the BL
came with a 5.0 V8. One gripe with the SR was no place on the bow for
the anchor. The BL has a large bow rail and a pulpit for the anchor. I
also got extra equipment like a radio and depth finder with the BL.
The price out the door for the BL was $2000 less than the SR. Both with
roller trailers. Fuel tanks are both 55 gals.
Sorry, Harry, you are a very witty fellow, and apparently very well
read, but I doubt that you have a lot of actual experience.
H Krause
I'll admit that my "actual" experience aboard Bayliners is indeed limited,
although I have climbed aboard a number of them at dealerships, and looked
them over at docks and I have been out on a couple. The experience you
quote, however, is anecdotal and 10 years out of date. So, I would say, "you
don't know the facts," nor are you aware of Bayliner's current small boat
marketing strategies.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Will that be cache or chkdsk?
Jeff
You may wish to add that you were savagely attacked by one at a boat
show.
Jeff
Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
Marty Gras
H Krause wrote in message <37933524...@erols.com>...
>greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
>Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing
>ploy. It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized
>boats that have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel >as
if he is getting a better buy.
Harry
Please give some examples of this underpowering. I dont think you can. The
fact is that the parent company of Bayliner the worlds largest boat
manufacturer also owns Mercury Marine the worlds largest marine engine
manufacturer. This gives Bayliner a distinct pricing advantage over any of
the other boat manufacturers.
>Check fuel tank size, too.
What does that mean???
Gary
Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Jeff
wrote:
Must be why Boston Whaler and Sea Ray are so affordable, no?
H Krause
>
> Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.
Damn...forgot that incident, which involved an attack by a Bayliner interior
item while I was admiring the ersatz bunny fur interior.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Home is where the computer is plugged in.
H Krause
>
> H Krause wrote in message <37933524...@erols.com>...
> >greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing
> >ploy. It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized
> >boats that have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel >as
> if he is getting a better buy.
>
> Harry
> Please give some examples of this underpowering. I dont think you can. The
> fact is that the parent company of Bayliner the worlds largest boat
> manufacturer also owns Mercury Marine the worlds largest marine engine
> manufacturer. This gives Bayliner a distinct pricing advantage over any of
> the other boat manufacturers.
There's no need to go through this again. Check the lots of any Bayliner
dealer. 19' center consoles with 120 hp FORCE engines, 20' bowriders with
3.0 liter I/O's, etc.
Bayliner is just another brand in the conglomerate's stable. It has no
distinct pricing advantage over any other boats in that conglomerate's line.
>
> >Check fuel tank size, too.
>
> What does that mean???
Another place where the company chintzes out in construction.
>
> Gary
> Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Close the door, Y'shua ben-Yosef!! You born in a barn?!?
Klwasson
>greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
>> boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
>> maintained, or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
>> here would lead you to believe?
>
>your first question is Yes, and the answer to your second question also is
>Yes.
>
>The larger Bayliners are built to a better standard than the smaller ones.
>
>It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized boats that
>have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel as if he is
Just as an aside, I've seen you post this several times and, frankly, I find it
hard to believe that ANYONE would directly compare the price of a boat with a
larger engine to the price of a boat with a smaller engine and conclude that
the lower powered boat has better value without taking into account the engine
size. Nearly all of the boat manufacturers offer several engine options.
Certainly the boat with the larger engine SHOULD be priced higher, and I think
that ANY reasonable adult would reason such.
(Yes - I said ANY reasonable adult. That includes newbie boat buyers.)
K. Wasson
klwa...@aol.com
MuffinMan
>
>
>Gary
The 21 footer in the slip next to me has an 80 gallon fuel tank in it.
SA
A Cats Tail Makes A Great Tuna Feather
H Krause
>
> H Krause <hkr...@erols-nospam.com> wrote:
> >greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
> >> boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
> >> maintained, or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
> >> here would lead you to believe?
> >
> >If you are talking about the smaller Bayliners and Trophies, the answer to
> >your first question is Yes, and the answer to your second question also is
> >Yes.
> >
> >The larger Bayliners are built to a better standard than the smaller ones.
> >
> >Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing ploy.
> >It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized boats that
> >have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel as if he is
> >getting a better buy. Check fuel tank size, too.
>
> Just as an aside, I've seen you post this several times and, frankly, I find it
> hard to believe that ANYONE would directly compare the price of a boat with a
> larger engine to the price of a boat with a smaller engine and conclude that
> the lower powered boat has better value without taking into account the engine
> size.
Newbies do it all the time. Not a week goes by in here without someone new
to boating bemoaning the fact that his new boat with the standard 3.0 liter
engine that the dealer told him was ok for pulling skiers can barely get out
of its own way and won't plane with four aboard.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Massachusetts has the best politicians money can buy.
Klwasson
I am unconvinced. Just because someone is unhappy about the performance of
their boat doesn't mean they don't understand the economics of adding a bigger
engine. If they buy a car with a 4-cylinder engine, without paying for the
optional 6-cylinder engine, they might bitch about the take off. It doesn't
mean they don't understand that they could have gotten better performance for
more money.
K. Wasson
klwa...@aol.com
Marty Gras
Gary
Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Jeff wrote in message <379356e2...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:45:42 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>H Krause wrote in message <37933524...@erols.com>...
>>>greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing
>>>ploy. It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized
>>>boats that have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel
>as
>>if he is getting a better buy.
>>
>>Harry
>>Please give some examples of this underpowering. I dont think you can. The
>>fact is that the parent company of Bayliner the worlds largest boat
>>manufacturer also owns Mercury Marine the worlds largest marine engine
>>manufacturer. This gives Bayliner a distinct pricing advantage over any of
>>the other boat manufacturers.
>>
>>>Check fuel tank size, too.
>>
>>What does that mean???
>>
>
>Must be why Boston Whaler and Sea Ray are so affordable, no?
>
Marty Gras
H Krause wrote in message <37935881...@erols.com>...
>There's no need to go through this again. Check the lots of any Bayliner
>dealer. 19' center consoles with 120 hp FORCE engines, 20' bowriders >with
3.0 liter I/O's, etc.
Bayliner offers their boats with a large choice of power plants the choice
is entirely up the the purchaser as is the case with every boat manufacture
that I know of.
>Bayliner is just another brand in the conglomerate's stable. It has no
>distinct pricing advantage over any other boats in that conglomerate's
>line.
True but the fact remains that they do have an advantage over other boat
manufacturers not owned bo brunswick.
>> >Check fuel tank size, too.
>>
>> What does that mean???
>
>Another place where the company chintzes out in construction.
Im still waiting for an explanation.
Jeff
wrote:
>Just because you have a price advantage doesnt mean you always use it.
>
>Gary
>Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>
>Jeff wrote in message <379356e2...@news.mindspring.com>...
>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:45:42 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>H Krause wrote in message <37933524...@erols.com>...
>>>>greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>>Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing
>>>>ploy. It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized
>>>>boats that have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel
>>as
>>>if he is getting a better buy.
>>>
>>>Harry
>>>Please give some examples of this underpowering. I dont think you can. The
>>>fact is that the parent company of Bayliner the worlds largest boat
>>>manufacturer also owns Mercury Marine the worlds largest marine engine
>>>manufacturer. This gives Bayliner a distinct pricing advantage over any of
>>>the other boat manufacturers.
>>>
>>>>Check fuel tank size, too.
>>>
>>>What does that mean???
>>>
>>
>>Must be why Boston Whaler and Sea Ray are so affordable, no?
>>
>>Jeff
>>
Hmmm. So the price advantage is at work for Bayliner, then the parent
company turns around and screws the BW and Sea Ray buyers?
I think a more applicable statement would have been: "Just because
you have access to quality components and materials doesn't mean you
have to use them."
Yup. That sounds much better.
Marty Gras
H Krause wrote in message <37935F6B...@erols.com>...
>Newbies do it all the time. Not a week goes by in here without someone >new
to boating bemoaning the fact that his new boat with the standard >3.0 liter
engine that the dealer told him was ok for pulling skiers can >barely get
out of its own way and won't plane with four aboard.
An this dealer is not telling the truth because Bayliner told them to.
This is not a bayliner problem this something that happens at dealers of all
brands.
Gary
Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Whats the difference between a computer dealer and a boat dealer?
The computer dealer doesn't know he is lying.
Marty Gras
>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:14:13 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Just because you have a price advantage doesnt mean you always use it.
>>
>>Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>>
The volume for bayliner is higher and the profit % is lower.
The volume for the other boats is lower but the profit % is higher.
Jeremiah Weed
I bought my 20 Trophy with a 4 cylinder I/O for a specific reason and that
is trolling. I can troll nicely at 1.5 MPH which is a perfect speed for
Hot-N-Tots, Wiggle-Warts and Thundersticks. Which are lures we troll here
in Lake Erie for Walleyes. Have you tried to kick down the 4.3 liter for
trolling? I do not need a trolling plate or a 9.9 kicker to have a good day
fishing. I even like the fact that I have 65 gallons of Petrol so I can
quite sure that my range would be much further than your "Sea-Pro". I will
even guarentee you that the ride in rough seas with my Trophy is far
superior than your "Sea-Beginner" could or would give you. By the way I
have never ever seen nor heard of the Sea-Pro brand of boats here in
Michigan! I am sure that they are at the same level as Contender, Pursuit,
Ocean Master, and Mako.... NOT...
TIght LInes and Warm Barrels...
Jeremiah Weed
H Krause <hkr...@erols-nospam.com> wrote in message
news:37935881...@erols.com...
> Marty Gras wrote:
> >
> > H Krause wrote in message <37933524...@erols.com>...
> > >greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing
> > >ploy. It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized
> > >boats that have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel
>as
> > if he is getting a better buy.
> >
> > Harry
> > Please give some examples of this underpowering. I dont think you can.
The
> > fact is that the parent company of Bayliner the worlds largest boat
> > manufacturer also owns Mercury Marine the worlds largest marine engine
> > manufacturer. This gives Bayliner a distinct pricing advantage over any
of
> > the other boat manufacturers.
>
>
> There's no need to go through this again. Check the lots of any Bayliner
> dealer. 19' center consoles with 120 hp FORCE engines, 20' bowriders with
> 3.0 liter I/O's, etc.
> Bayliner is just another brand in the conglomerate's stable. It has no
> distinct pricing advantage over any other boats in that conglomerate's
line.
> >
> > >Check fuel tank size, too.
> >
> > What does that mean???
>
> Another place where the company chintzes out in construction.
>
> >
> > Gary
> > Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>
>
> --
>
> Harry Krause
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
RGrew176
>I am a newbie to this forum, and would like to know why Bayliner causes
>so many passionate posts.
I have often wondered that myself. I have been completely satisfied with the
Bayliners I have owned.
>I went to a marina that sells Bayliner and
>Stingray. I did not meet one thoroughly disgruntled Bayliner owner,
Nor have I ever met a thoroughly disgruntled one myself. Disatisfied with some
aspects of the boat yes but generally not happy no.
>but
>did talk to several unhappy Stingray owners.
Don't know about that have never met a Stingray owner but the boats themselves
look OK to me.
>Most Bayliner owners that
>had complaints were about being underpowered with the base engine.
That is basicly true of Bayliner. My first Bayliner an 87 Ciera had as the
standard engine a 4 cylinder engine. A "good" dealer will try to talk the
prospective purchaser into an engine upgrade as was my case. I purchased the 87
with a 305 V8 then rated at 230 HP. It was by no means underpowered as top end
was 44 mph. My 96 2855 Ciera came standard with a 350 cid engine rated at 250
HP IMO that boat would be underpowered. The only engine that should be put in
that boat is the 454. My current boat a 99 3055 Ciera SE comes standard with
twin 305's rated at 220 HP and IMO is not underpowered at all. In fact there is
a 3055 just around the bend at another marina at my harbor that has the 305's
and we spoke one morning when I was at the gas dock and he is completely
satisfied with his boat. His top end measured by GPS is 44 mph and mine also
measured with GPS is 47 and I did opt up to the twin 350's rated at 250 HP
each. You can also get twin 454's rated at 310 Hp each or twin 4.2 liter
diesels rated at 200 HP each so the way I see it the 3055 is not underpowered
in any way by Bayliner.
>I
>also have noticed that most negative posts come from non-Bayliner
>owners.
That is generally true. There have been some negative posts from Bayliner
owners and Bayliner like anyone else will occasionally build a bad one.
>Please correct me if I am wrong on that. The owner of the
>marina said the good thing about Bayliner is that they allow neophytes
>like me to get into boating relatively cheap. The down-side is that
>means that there are a lot of first timers out there that treat the
>boat incorrectly, and then blame Bayliner when something goes wrong.
That is generally a true statement. Many first time boat owners do in fact
purchase Bayliners mainly because of pricing. That was my biggest reason for
purchasing my 87, PRICE. It was less expensive than any other 24 footer on the
market at that time even with the upgrade to the 305 engine.
>So
>come on what is the truth out there? Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
>boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
>maintained,
Yes, they will if properly maintained and the key is maintainance. Like any
mechanical device one must maintain it to receive optimum performance.
>or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
>here would lead you to believe?
>
Only if you treat them as such.
The controversy about Bayliners will go on possibly as long as there are
Bayliners. Did they ever build poor quality boats? The answer is yes. In the
late 80's they were cheap boats but that is not true now. The differences
between my 87 and my 96 and 99 boats is like night and day. They are currently
building a much better boat.
Also, as many others have posted to this thread you must decide what your main
use for the boat will be and the conditions where you will boat the majority of
the time. Using that criteria you need to look at boats that fit your intended
usage from more than one manufacturer and then make an intelligent decision
based on comparisons of various makes and models. Good luck in your purchase
decision. Boating is one of the best family activities there is and can put the
"Q" in quality time.
Jeff
wrote:
>Jeff wrote in message <37936c4c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:14:13 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Just because you have a price advantage doesnt mean you always use it.
>>>
>>>Gary
>>>Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>>>
>>>Jeff wrote in message <379356e2...@news.mindspring.com>...
>>>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:45:42 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>H Krause wrote in message <37933524...@erols.com>...
>>>>>>greg...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>>>>Deliberate underpowering on the smaller boats is a Bayliner marketing
>>>>>>ploy. It allows the company to compete, price-wise, with similar sized
>>>>>>boats that have larger engines, and make the unsophisticated buyer feel
>>>>as
>>>>>if he is getting a better buy.
>>>>>
>>>>>Harry
>>>>>Please give some examples of this underpowering. I dont think you can.
>The
>>>>>fact is that the parent company of Bayliner the worlds largest boat
>>>>>manufacturer also owns Mercury Marine the worlds largest marine engine
>>>>>manufacturer. This gives Bayliner a distinct pricing advantage over any
>of
>>>>>the other boat manufacturers.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Check fuel tank size, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>What does that mean???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Must be why Boston Whaler and Sea Ray are so affordable, no?
>>>>
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>
>>Hmmm. So the price advantage is at work for Bayliner, then the parent
>>company turns around and screws the BW and Sea Ray buyers?
>>
>>I think a more applicable statement would have been: "Just because
>>you have access to quality components and materials doesn't mean you
>>have to use them."
>>
>>Yup. That sounds much better.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please
>respond in Usenet.
>>
>NO !
>The volume for bayliner is higher and the profit % is lower.
>The volume for the other boats is lower but the profit % is higher.
So how do the construction of the Bayliner compare then to the Whaler,
if you say my previous statement is invalid?
H Krause
>
> Harry you tool,
>
> I bought my 20 Trophy with a 4 cylinder I/O for a specific reason and that
> is trolling. I can troll nicely at 1.5 MPH which is a perfect speed for
> Hot-N-Tots, Wiggle-Warts and Thundersticks. Which are lures we troll here
> in Lake Erie for Walleyes. Have you tried to kick down the 4.3 liter for
> trolling?
Naw. Not very interested in I/O's. Have some minor technical interest in
jackshafted I/O's because the engine can be relocated to where it ought to
be, rather than at the transom. Are you claiming your 4.3 liter engine
doesn't troll slow? Maybe you should have bought the same boat with a Merc
Opti 135 or 150. Mine trolls that slow pulling striper rigs.
I do not need a trolling plate or a 9.9 kicker to have a good day
> fishing. I even like the fact that I have 65 gallons of Petrol so I can
> quite sure that my range would be much further than your "Sea-Pro".
It's probably about the same at high cruise speed. What's your fuel usage at
40 or 45 mph?
I will
> even guarentee you that the ride in rough seas with my Trophy is far
> superior than your "Sea-Beginner" could or would give you. By the way I
> have never ever seen nor heard of the Sea-Pro brand of boats here in
> Michigan!
You're making a guarantee and you've never seen or heard of Sea-Pro? You
must be a Bayliner dealer's dream.
I am sure that they are at the same level as Contender, Pursuit,
> Ocean Master, and Mako.... NOT...
Doubt if anyone claimed they were. I sure haven't. And Contender and Pursuit
are in a different category than Ocean Master or Mako.
>
ref
>
>This is not a bayliner problem this something that happens at dealers of all
>brands.
First piece of advice I give to new boat buyers is, do NOT
listen to your "dealer," AKA "boat salesman." 99% of these
guys don't know which end of a boat to point towards the
water. Of course, there are SOME scattered here and there,
but in general, just ignore these guys.
Here are some doozies I remember from showroom visits and
boat shows, off the top of my head:
---
How much deadrise does this boat have?
Oh, very little, sir, it's a very good boat; we don't sell
any of that cheap stuff here.
---
(looking at 17' bass boat, 90HP) How well does
this boat handle rough water?
Oh, no problem - my cousin has one of these down
at the coast, and he takes it 50 miles offshore!
---
How many watts does that stereo have?
Well, it runs off a standard 12 volt battery...
---
What kind of stringers does this boat have?
You don't need stringers on THIS boat; it has special insulated
boxes to keep the fish in.
---
I swear.. I am NOT making these up. When i come into this
newsgroup and some landlubber is saying, "well, my dealer says
blahblahblah..." a red flag starts waving in my head.
Ron M.
Marty Gras
Jeff wrote in message <37937160...@news.mindspring.com>...
A Boston Whaler is made of a fiberglass skin onto which the inside shell is
laid then it is injected with expanded foam. Basically a foam cup it cant
sink even if you cut it up.
Compairing the Whaler with any other boat makes no sense, except that they
are both well built.
Jeremiah Weed
2 things!!! Read my original post.
I bought the (4 cylinder, 3.0 liter) 135 HP I/O not the (6 cylinder, 4.3
liter) 190 HP I/O.
Who cares about fuel consumption at 40 to 45 MPH because top speed on my
boat is 32 to 33 MPH. Your trying to pull a Skipper on me aren't you? Your
comparing a Open Center Console to my Walkaround Cuddy. Again they are two
different types of boats with two different powerplants.
Tight Lines and Warm Barrels..
Jeremiah Weed
H Krause <hkr...@erols-nospam.com> wrote in message
news:37937210...@erols.com...
Marty Gras
Gary
Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Jeremiah Weed wrote in message <37939...@cartman.shutter.net>...
skippe...@my-deja.com
> Harry,
> I bought the (4 cylinder, 3.0 liter) 135 HP I/O
> not the (6 cylinder, 4.3 liter) 190 HP I/O.
> Who cares about fuel consumption at 40 to 45 MPH
> because top speed on my boat is 32 to 33 MPH.
> Your trying to pull a Skipper on me aren't you?
The 2052 with a 3.0 is a seriously underpowered
boat. You sould have gone for the 4.3. You will
eventually find this out at resale.
--
Skipper
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Ross Carlisle
The quality is as good as any other production line built boat *in the same
class*. You can spend twice the money and get much higher quality...as you
would expect. Sometimes you can spend twice the money and get no better
quality...depends on the manufacturer.
Bayliner has a rep of being a poor quality boat. This was true 10 or 15
years ago...but now they seem to be good boats. You are right...most people
griping about Bayliner do not currently own one and some never have. I had
one many years ago and it was a good starter boat for me....since I have
owned many other brands that have caused just as much trouble if not more.
If Bayliner offers the boat that fits your needs and your budjet...I wouldnt
hesitate to buy it.
Ross...
greg...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7mvbs2$t7g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I am a newbie to this forum, and would like to know why Bayliner causes
>so many passionate posts. I went to a marina that sells Bayliner and
>Stingray. I did not meet one thoroughly disgruntled Bayliner owner, but
>did talk to several unhappy Stingray owners. Most Bayliner owners that
>had complaints were about being underpowered with the base engine. I
>also have noticed that most negative posts come from non-Bayliner
>owners. Please correct me if I am wrong on that. The owner of the
>marina said the good thing about Bayliner is that they allow neophytes
>like me to get into boating relatively cheap. The down-side is that
>means that there are a lot of first timers out there that treat the
>boat incorrectly, and then blame Bayliner when something goes wrong. So
>come on what is the truth out there? Are Bayliners an O.K. entry level
>boat thet will give you a few good years of service if properly
>maintained, or are they floating trashcans like many people posting
>here would lead you to believe?
>
>
H Krause
>
> Harry,
>
> 2 things!!! Read my original post.
>
> liter) 190 HP I/O.
>
> Who cares about fuel consumption at 40 to 45 MPH because top speed on my
> comparing a Open Center Console to my Walkaround Cuddy. Again they are two
> different types of boats with two different powerplants.
How would I know what the top speed is on your boat? We have about the same
horsepower engines, yours a four cycle and mine a two cycle DFI. And you are
the one who did the comparisons, not me. I simply responded to your post, in
which you claimed your Bayliner could perform a certain way in comparison to
my bay boat and in the same breath you admitted you'd never even seen a boat
of the brand we happen to have.
BTW, in October 1998, Trailer Boats Magazine tested your engine and mine on
identical boats. The outboard model delivered 6% better fuel mileage at
trolling speeds and 9% better mileage at optimum cruise speeds.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I fear any government that fears my guns.
H Krause
>
> What do you expect he is an expert on bayliners and has never owned one.
>
> Gary
> Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Never owned a Yugo, either.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Chocolate and sex...they are not mutually exclusive.
Jeff
wrote:
>
>Jeff wrote in message <37937160...@news.mindspring.com>...
>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:34:00 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Jeff wrote in message <37936c4c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>>>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:14:13 -0400, "Marty Gras" <mrpa...@aol.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Just because you have a price advantage doesnt mean you always use it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gary
>>>>>Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>>>>>
Yes, I am quite aware of the method of construction of BW. I should
have been more specific, sorry.
How do the components compare? How do things like tank size, number
of cleats, material of metal components, etc. of like size boats
compare? How are they equipped? What power is standard?
CaptMP
wrote:>The quality is as good as any other production line built boat *in the
same
>class*. You can spend twice the money and get much higher quality...as you
>would expect. Sometimes you can spend twice the money and get no better
>quality...depends
...<snip>
I agree-I looked at Sea-Pro and Seaswirl boats in the 19-21 ft. W/A Cuddie
configuration and wound up with a 2052 Trophy. Yeah the boat has some odd fit
and finish issues, but so did the other two brands. After all in the $22k to
$27k range you're not getting a new 21 ft. Grady White, nor should you expect
to. I did spring for the 4.3 Mercruiser with fresh water cooling, and am
pleased with the boat over all (my third boat by the way).
More than acceptable for catching yellow tail off La Jolla and the Coronados,
and worked well for my son and I to overnight in the marina and then motor out
to see the "tall ships" come into San Diego last Tuesday.
I am a trifle concerned that the continued bad mouthing of the brand will
affect my resale value, but that is likely to be 10 to 15 years away.
Mike
Richard Chahley
RGrew176 wrote:
>
> (snipped)
>
> >Most Bayliner owners that
> >had complaints were about being underpowered with the base engine.
>
> That is basicly true of Bayliner. My first Bayliner an 87 Ciera had as the
> standard engine a 4 cylinder engine. A "good" dealer will try to talk the
> prospective purchaser into an engine upgrade as was my case. I purchased the 87
> with a 305 V8 then rated at 230 HP. It was by no means underpowered as top end
> was 44 mph. My 96 2855 Ciera came standard with a 350 cid engine rated at 250
> HP IMO that boat would be underpowered. The only engine that should be put in
> that boat is the 454.
> (snipped)
Ah yes, I would agree with the above statement. I've had an 89 2655
Ciera (basically the same size as the 96 2855 mentioned above but
without the integrated bow & swim platforms). And the really only
complaint is the underpowering of the "standard" 350 (5.7L) power
plant. With the family (5 bodies), SCUBA gear (4 tanks), 10' Zodiac on
swim platform, 8HP outboard, etc., etc., we have to run approx 3600 RPM
just to maintain plane (approx 20 MPH). The tach red-line is shown at
4300 RPM. So not much tach headroom left.
Kinda wished it had the 454 power plant when we bought it. Otherwise
generally satisfied with the boat.
Richard
H Krause
This is a real problem for Bayliner owners, especially newbie Bayliner
owners, though I certainly do not know whether you fall into that category.
When you visit the typical Bayliner dealer, he has a wide variety of boats
and boat/motor/trailer packages on his lot. To keep down his costs, most
boats are ordered with minimal horsepower engines and, if a trailerable,
with a minimal qualilty "house brand" trailer.
Thus, you would see new boats up to 20 feet with the four-banger I/O or
perhaps a FORCE outboard, typically 90 or 120 hp. Most boats so equipped
simply will not perform decently with three or four adults on board, plus
their stuff, *and* pulling a skier. Bayliner knows this, and its dealers
know this, too. But these are the boat rigs Bayliner pushes on its dealers
and these are the ones the dealers sell the most.
Even in the larger cruisers, up to about 30', I'm amazed at the low power
engines Bayliner specifies as "standard," and therefore I am not surprised
when Bayliner owners report here that their 25 or 26-something cabin cruiser
cannot get out of its own way.
I maintain that performance figures are something that boat manufacturers
should supply. In the absence of needed information, too many buyers get
screwed.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Life's a bitch, but some of the puppies are cute.
Jeremiah Weed
I have a 99' 2052 Trophy with the 135 I/O and love it. Never mind what
trash Harry spews out of his sandwich clamp. After all it comes from a guy
that takes a Bay Style Boat miles offshore. I too looked at the Seaswirl,
Sport-Craft, Pro-Line and lastly a Wellcraft. I found the 2052 Trophy a
much better buy for the $$$$. Besides I have never even heard or seen the
Sea-Pro line here in the Great-Lakes.
Tight Lines and Warm Barrels..
Jeremiah Weed
CaptMP <cap...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990719205938...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
H Krause
>
> Mike,
>
> I have a 99' 2052 Trophy with the 135 I/O and love it. Never mind what
> trash Harry spews out of his sandwich clamp. After all it comes from a guy
> that takes a Bay Style Boat miles offshore.
20 miles into the Atlantic, to be specific. Do you know what a bay style
boat is, by the way?
I too looked at the Seaswirl,
> Sport-Craft, Pro-Line and lastly a Wellcraft. I found the 2052 Trophy a
> much better buy for the $$$$. Besides I have never even heard or seen the
> Sea-Pro line here in the Great-Lakes.
And yet you compare your boat to one? How do you do that?
Scott Brown
process was on 1850 with v6 or 2052 with v6 (yes, they are different boats
and capabilities but I was not sure what I wanted at the time either).
The 2052 was capable with the 4.3 V6- meaning it was not a performance boat
but did a reasonable job of getting on plane and moving smartly through the
water. I would not have looked at a smaller engine given my feelings
on the V6.
I hope that your 2052 performs to your expectations (mid 30s MPH is a great
crusing speed) but please understand that a 3.0 will be working more
towards its full capacity than a V6 under the same circumstances.
Once you get the relatives on board (?), you may be surprised at the
plow required and length of time/effort to get on plane.
Not having actually driven the 2052/3.0 combo this is just opinion but
you'll find this a common opinion among this news group.
rgds,
Scott.
--
Scott Brown, Systems Engineer
F O R E S y s t e m s I n c.
300-1565 Carling Ave.,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Z-8R1
sbrown @ fore.com 613-724-3360 fax: -3366
Jeremiah Weed
I agree It would have been better to buy the 4.3. But what I use my boat
for the 3.0 fullfills my needs. The 3.0 4 cylinder has been out for quite a
long time and has been a very good dependable motor. I believe that it is
based off of GM's IRON DUKE 2.5 liter which was in alot of mid 80's to early
90's GM autos and S-10 pickup trucks. I can cruise nicely at 25 to 28 MPH
at 3800 RPM (Redline is around 4400 RPM if I remember correctly). I am
happy with the purchase that I made so that is all that counts.
TIght Lines and Warm Barrels..
Jeremiah Weed
Scott Brown <sco...@fore.com> wrote in message
news:7n23ei$u...@scottyb.fore.com...
Jeff
<GUN...@rednecks.com> wrote:
>Mike,
>
>I have a 99' 2052 Trophy with the 135 I/O and love it. Never mind what
>trash Harry spews out of his sandwich clamp. After all it comes from a guy
>that takes a Bay Style Boat miles offshore. I too looked at the Seaswirl,
>Sport-Craft, Pro-Line and lastly a Wellcraft. I found the 2052 Trophy a
>much better buy for the $$$$. Besides I have never even heard or seen the
>Sea-Pro line here in the Great-Lakes.
>
>Tight Lines and Warm Barrels..
>
>Jeremiah Weed
FWIW, it was *super* calm offshore NC last weekend. I was fishing 30
miles offshore in the company of some 17' flat bottom skiffs as well
as some bay boats (with front "bass boat" style seat and trolling
motor). They looked a little funny out that far, but it was no
problem for them to get out that far. Hell, there were jon boats
leaving the inlet when I went through.
skippe...@my-deja.com
> Even in the larger cruisers, up to about 30', I'm amazed at the low
> power engines Bayliner specifies as "standard," and therefore I am not
> surprised when Bayliner owners report here that their 25 or
> 26-something cabin cruiser cannot get out of its own way.
Bayliner owners are not reporting that their boats cannot get out of
thier own way. Quite the opposite is true, Harry. Almost all reports
from Bayliner owners are of very satisfactory performance for their
intended usage. More wishful thinking, Harry?.
Most Bayliner purchasers are not as confused as you seem to be about the
verious engine options available for these boats. Most opt for upgrades
from the "basic" engine offering. The only one who seems to be confused
about Bayliners "basic" engine offering is yourself.
--
Skipper
Tim Stone
> between my 87 and my 96 and 99 boats is like night and day. They are
currently
> building a much better boat.
Since we are entering the boat purchase market for the first time, we "see
and hear" a lot.
We have found the following to be the common thread of comments from most
dealers including those who sell Bayliner:
1) Bayliner boats are much better built today than in the past
2) Performance of Bayliner boats for skiing has vastly improved in recent
years ... much faster time to get up on a plane, consequently much safer
as noted by some professional water skiiers ).
3) Perhaps the biggest difference ( other than price ) is in trim. Its
perhaps the old Chevy vs Pontiac vs Oldsmobile vs Buick routine. You see
essentially the same models and drive train in all, but with different trim,
paint, and accents.
Tim
Tim Stone
> listen to your "dealer," AKA "boat salesman." 99% of these
> guys don't know which end of a boat to point towards the
> water. Of course, there are SOME scattered here and there,
> but in general, just ignore these guys.
I just spent the weekend visiting boat dealers. Of four dealers, I only
encountered one "salesman" and she was still informative and helpful. With
many years of experience, she did know boats. In the other three cases, not
only were the dealers knowledgeable, but they were very willing to provide a
lot of good information to a "new buyer" ( which has been since validated by
my research and reading about powerboats ), and they were in no hurry to
push a sale. In fact, they were positive about a wide range of boat lines
they did not carry. It was a fun experience, so "dealers" are not always to
be avoided.
Tim
Jeremiah Weed
I am not a Bayliner Salesman nor do I have any family members who sell
boats, but I would have to agree they are building a far better boat than
they did during the 80's and very early 90's. I bought my 1999 2052 Trophy
and I have no regrets for doing such. It was between a 1999 22 Wellcraft
W/A fisherman or the 2052 that I bought. I saved $11,000 and in my opinion
bought a much better boat. For example take a look at the extruded plastic
inserts that are used for Fishing Rod/Reel holders on the Wellcraft. Take a
look at the rod holders on the bayliner? Much better. I could kick the
cheap plastic insert out and the water from the cockpit would drain right
into the bilge. Just think if you accidently hit it with a cannonball from
a downrigger or two.
Tight lines and warm barrels..
Jeremiah Weed
Tim Stone <tims...@mstrlink.com> wrote in message
news:gN4l3.12218$8W3....@news.rdc2.occa.home.com...
MuffinMan
>from Bayliner owners are of very satisfactory performance for their
>intended usage.
They sure seem to be happy and Harry is just helping them make their point more
and more. I have begun my search for another boat and will be prepared to buy
(considering I find the right one) in November. Since reading the latest series
of threads concerning Bayliners I have including them in my search. Not that I
was ever really against them in the first place. Thanks Harry.
SA
**Deck - This is what your spouse will do to you after discovering how
much money you have spent on the boat without first obtaining
permission**
Patrick Buthmann
>>There's no need to go through this again. Check the lots of any Bayliner
>>dealer. 19' center consoles with 120 hp FORCE engines, 20' bowriders >with
>3.0 liter I/O's, etc.
I'm sorry to do this, but I have to take Harry's side in this squabble
as well. I've looked at several B/L's, and they generally start one
size engine smaller than the competition. Yes, you can upgrade, but
this tends to remove SOME of the price advantage.
>Bayliner offers their boats with a large choice of power plants the choice
>is entirely up the the purchaser as is the case with every boat manufacture
>that I know of.
>
>>Bayliner is just another brand in the conglomerate's stable. It has no
>>distinct pricing advantage over any other boats in that conglomerate's
>>line.
>
>True but the fact remains that they do have an advantage over other boat
>manufacturers not owned bo brunswick.
This isn't entirely true. They may share some discounting, but not
nearly enough to justify massive discounts. Look at it realistically,
why cripple Mercury Marine's business by offering massive discounts to
internal businesses, only to have Volvo jump all over the discount
bandwagon by offering their power-plants to everybody else in the
business not a part of Brunswick?
Mercury Marine is a division of Brunswick, but remains an
independently operated business, much like the numerous divisions of
GM.
Mercury Marine would much rather (and Brunswick as well) sell mills to
every boater manufacturer on the planet, than worry about giving
Bayliner and Sea Ray a distinct price advantage on power plants.
Mercury Marine doesn't care who's boat the power is in, just that it's
Mercury on the label. If it's a Brunswick boat, the shareholder's are
just a little happier.
The residuals from selling rebuilds, parts, service, training etc mean
more to Mercury Marine in the long run anyway, so the more original
Mercury Marine engines on the market, the better for them.
Besides, I can order a Bayliner with Volvo Penta power as well. Just
because manufacturer's are part of a conglomerate, doesn't mean that
they fall under one umbrella.
Pat
Patrick Buthmann
>> power engines Bayliner specifies as "standard," and therefore I am not
>> surprised when Bayliner owners report here that their 25 or
>> 26-something cabin cruiser cannot get out of its own way.
>
>Bayliner owners are not reporting that their boats cannot get out of
>from Bayliner owners are of very satisfactory performance for their
>
>Most Bayliner purchasers are not as confused as you seem to be about the
>verious engine options available for these boats. Most opt for upgrades
>from the "basic" engine offering. The only one who seems to be confused
>about Bayliners "basic" engine offering is yourself.
The problem isn't with Bayliner owners who purchase their boat from
the factory, perhaps through a dealer. The problem is with Bayliner
owners (first run types usually) who buy a boat off the dealer's lot.
When dealer's buy boats over the winter, they generally start with a
minimum configuration, so as to keep overhead down. You can order
pretty much any Bayliner boat and equip it quite nicely, powered well
enough to perform on par with anything in it's class.
The problem is, you have to wait for it, perhaps several months, or
even a season.
So newbie owner's buy one "off the lot", which tends to be
underpowered due to Bayliner offering a class of power that is
generally under the minimum for adequate performance.
Then, when they realize what they've done, they go out, buy a new
boat, and rush to sell their old Bayliner. Unfortunately, they can't
do it without taking a huge discount due to the under-powered nature
of the boat.
Several Bayliner's were for sale at our marina last year. One of
which was a mint condition 2855 (2958??) Avanti. The problem was, it
had only the single 350 in it. A big boat, for such a small engine.
He was also asking a price that was extremely ridiculous at the time,
and over a year later, has still not sold it. He owes nearly his
asking price on it, and is unwilling to take a bath on the deal. I
suspect he'll either take the discount, or keep his boat even though
he admits it's a financial burden for him.
Pat
H Krause
>
> >Almost all reports
> >from Bayliner owners are of very satisfactory performance for their
> >intended usage.
>
> and more. I have begun my search for another boat and will be prepared to buy
> (considering I find the right one) in November. Since reading the latest series
> of threads concerning Bayliners I have including them in my search. Not that I
> was ever really against them in the first place. Thanks Harry.
>
> SA
>
Well, good. Someone has to buy them. And, despite the denial, there is about
a post a week from a Bayliner owner wondering why his boat is a slug.
Usually it is because he was sold an "attractive" package that included an
anemic engine.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
At least PeeWee wasn't TALKING during the movie!
H Krause
>
> Harry, you're wasting your time. If there wasn't a problem, I don't
> think there would be tons of messages trying to justify the purchase.
> You and I know that all you have to do is look in the paper and see
> what the prices are for used boats to know the answer. It's hard
> enough trying to sell a used boat when you want to sell it. Why would
> you make it harder on yourself by buying a make like Bayliner that
> doesn't hold it's value?
>
> Also, I like the way people are writing about what a great new product
> Bayliner is putting out now in the late 90's. It doesn't make any
> sense to me. The arguement always starts with Bayliner owners saying
> how great the boats are. Then it leads to a new story about how great
> the Bayliner boats are NOW, after decades of manufacture. Seems to me
> the owners are admiting that the Bayliner boats of mid 90's and older
> vintage are not a good quality. Could it be because anything is great
> when its new and after a few years the mark of cheaper materials
> starts to degrade the boat quicker? Seems to me that in 1985 people
> were saying "...Sure the older Bayliners of the seventies weren't that
> good, but now in the mid 80's they are much better..." Sound
> familiar?
>
> I haven't personally owned a Bayliner so I can't comment on the
> ownership factor, but I can tell you a few things that are basic
> facts, not emotion:
>
> The following are things to look for in a quality boat:
>
> Stainless steel hardware and railings - Bayliner uses Chrome plating
>
> Is the hardware bolted in or wood screwed in? - I have seen the cleats
> pulled out of a Bayliner at our marina.
>
> Walk down a line of docks in a marina and look at how Bayline "caulks"
> their windows in place with now trim.
>
> A good weight proportion for the size - I've heard comments from
> people who own Bayliners (not from computer wizards), who say that the
> Bayliners bounce on the water like a cork, thus a poor ride when
> conditions are less than perfect. Look at the weight comparisons of a
> Bayliner vs a quality built boat and you will see that the Bayliner is
> much lighter.
>
> Of course, the powerplant complaint is common due to factors that
> others have commented on already.
>
> Here's a trick that was shown to me at a boat show. Rap or pound your
> fist against the side of a Bayliner on the side hull around the
> driver's seat location. It sounds like a drum. Do the same thing to
> a quality boat and it will feel and sound like hitting cement.
>
> Bottom line, you get what you pay for. If Bayliners are significantly
> less money to purchase new, (and they are), there are logical, reasons
> why that is and it isn't simply because they make more boats. If you
> use less material (lighter boat) or inexpensive materials, the overall
> cost will be less. Plain and simple.
>
> I don't think that you can discount the huge overall opinion of the
> general public either. How in the world could one company get such a
> poor reputation if there wasn't some truth to it? It can't all be
> sour grapes.
>
> Common sense, many peopole who want to start out in a new sport will
> naturally want to get away paying as little as possible. That's where
> Bayliner gets into trouble. Perhaps if they didn't offer such small
> engine plants as options, they wouldn't be in this predicament right
> now, (although I already know that all of you who love Bayliners don't
> think there is anything wrong).
>
> Funny thing I have noticed, some people want to trash Bayliner because
> of engine or outdrive problems. Apparantly they don't understand that
> these components are standard in all boats.
>
> Bottom line, if you like them, buy them, if you don't like 'em, then
> don't. For me, the fiberglass whip antenna I have on my Sea Ray isn't
> long enough for me to use to touch a Bayliner with.
>
> Just the opinion of one man, now it's someone elses turn to take shots
> at me and my Sea Ray.
>
> What do you think Harry?
Personally, I wouldn't take one as a gift.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Friends don't let friends cross picket lines.
Bill Andersen
boat is a slug. NO, there isn't.
I'm pleased with my purchased-new 1998 Bayliner Capri 1950 CL (19'
bowrider). It has the 3.0l, 135 HP engine and carries 4 adults and 3
children while pulling a skier. I have never felt the need more power. This
year, I did add a Doel fin to get on plane faster and stay there at slower
speeds when pulling tube type water toys.
Mentioning boats of the 70s and 80s is completely irrelevant.
I shopped for months before buying. Most dealers were very helpful, few
pushed for a sale.
I made my choice based on occupant capacity, features and price. Most of the
boats I looked at had the same engine so I'd have to consider the myth of
Bayliner selling underpowered boats as another lie.
My boat is in the water (fresh or salt) almost every weekend (great to live
in San Diego!) and nothing's loose or rusted, except the trailer springs. I
hose it off and flush the engine after salt water outings.
----------
In article <379517e5...@news.buffnet.net>, kar...@buffnet.net (Karen)
wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:24:14 -0400, H Krause
> <hkr...@erols-nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>MuffinMan wrote:
>>>
>>> >Almost all reports
>>> >from Bayliner owners are of very satisfactory performance for their
>>> >intended usage.
>>>
>>> They sure seem to be happy and Harry is just helping them make their point
more
>>> and more. I have begun my search for another boat and will be prepared to
buy
>>> (considering I find the right one) in November. Since reading the latest
series
>>> of threads concerning Bayliners I have including them in my search. Not that
I
>>> was ever really against them in the first place. Thanks Harry.
>>>
>>> SA
>>>
>>
>>Well, good. Someone has to buy them. And, despite the denial, there is about
>>a post a week from a Bayliner owner wondering why his boat is a slug.
>>Usually it is because he was sold an "attractive" package that included an
>>anemic engine.
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Harry Krause
>>- - - - - - - - - - - -
Marty Gras
mite get a few call asking what it was because nobody ever heard of the
brand, however if he listed a Bayliner Trophy of the same size he would get
calls asking for directions to come see the boat.
Harry this is an arguement you will never win. The fact is Bayliner gives
you more boat for the money and has a better resale value than most.
Gary
Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
H Krause wrote in message <379495B7...@erols.com>...
>Jeremiah Weed wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I have a 99' 2052 Trophy with the 135 I/O and love it. Never mind what
>> trash Harry spews out of his sandwich clamp. After all it comes from a
guy
>> that takes a Bay Style Boat miles offshore.
>
>20 miles into the Atlantic, to be specific. Do you know what a bay style
>boat is, by the way?
>
> I too looked at the Seaswirl,
>> Sport-Craft, Pro-Line and lastly a Wellcraft. I found the 2052 Trophy a
>> much better buy for the $$$$. Besides I have never even heard or seen
the
>> Sea-Pro line here in the Great-Lakes.
>
Jeff
Buthmann) wrote:
>
>Besides, I can order a Bayliner with Volvo Penta power as well. Just
>because manufacturer's are part of a conglomerate, doesn't mean that
>they fall under one umbrella.
>
I agree. I saw several new Boston Whalers this past weekend sporting
Yamaha power on the back.
Tim Stone
We were on the Bayliner lot the other day looking at the 20' Trophy. Our
primary focus will be skiing and cruising around the bays and coast. We
know we can do that with a Trophy, but we are still looking more seriously
at a Cutty. We will take plenty of time before we decide.
The one thing that did turn me off is the opportunity, from this dealer, to
ride in one before we make a buying decision. There was a lot of double
talk ... on the one hand the sales rep seemed to say that she owned, or had
access to, a new Trophy, but then we got the pitch that putting a boat in
the water would make it "used" and no one would buy it. So we were told
that we would have to do all the purchase paperwork, and then if we didn't
like it on the shakedown trip we could cancel the order. I won't buy any
boat until I am on one in the water. I have no clue how it feels, or
handles.
Fishing is # 3 on our priority list, and the Trophy was clearly a fishing
boat layout. However, the roomy cabin was sure nice.
Tim
George Whittet
>
> Scott,
>
> I agree It would have been better to buy the 4.3. But what I use my boat
> for the 3.0 fullfills my needs. The 3.0 4 cylinder has been out for quite a
> long time and has been a very good dependable motor. I believe that it is
> based off of GM's IRON DUKE 2.5 liter which was in alot of mid 80's to early
> 90's GM autos and S-10 pickup trucks. I can cruise nicely at 25 to 28 MPH
> at 3800 RPM (Redline is around 4400 RPM if I remember correctly). I am
> happy with the purchase that I made so that is all that counts.
>
>
> Jeremiah Weed
>
An interesting sidebar to your post...I've been told the Iron Duke was
originally designed for taxicab service and was used by Checker for
years.
George
Karen
Tim Stone
> Also, I like the way people are writing about what a great new product
> Bayliner is putting out now in the late 90's
First, let me say that I don't yet own a boat, I have no forgone conclusion
for, or against, any line, and I'm not looking to buy cheap. I am in the
stage of research, and what I have heard from many OTHER manufacturers is
that Bayliner boats are much improved during the past two years ... and they
don't badmouth them. More importantly, a close couple who have been in
boats, skiing, all of their lives, and who are VERY experienced, told us
that Bayliner has been getting a significant new look from boat owners who
feel it has overcome their objections. That said, the Bayliner's I have
looked at are not at the top of my list. You recommend Sea Ray. What else
do you recommend ?
Tim
Richard Daines
is that they will not hold up to anything back casual use over the
long haul. Which means, by the time you are done paying for it the
boat is nearly worthless and you'll have to "give it away".
I've owned a Bayliner for 5 years, the carpet is thread bare in
places, the seat cushions are cracking, the diamond non side is
flaking off and the formica is showing it's age. Thankfully none of
the mechanical stuff has broken yet.
There are other boats, twice that age, which show none of the above.
Are Bayliners disposable boats? Use once and discard? Well, maybe
not that bad but they do not age well IMHO.
Richard J. Daines
Ledyard, CT
rda...@ctol.net
RDaines web page and Block Island Web Cam
http://www.ctol.net/~rdaines/
Jeff
wrote:
>Jeremiah,
>
>We were on the Bayliner lot the other day looking at the 20' Trophy. Our
>primary focus will be skiing and cruising around the bays and coast. We
>know we can do that with a Trophy, but we are still looking more seriously
>at a Cutty. We will take plenty of time before we decide.
>
>The one thing that did turn me off is the opportunity, from this dealer, to
>ride in one before we make a buying decision. There was a lot of double
>talk ... on the one hand the sales rep seemed to say that she owned, or had
>access to, a new Trophy, but then we got the pitch that putting a boat in
>the water would make it "used" and no one would buy it. So we were told
>that we would have to do all the purchase paperwork, and then if we didn't
>like it on the shakedown trip we could cancel the order. I won't buy any
>boat until I am on one in the water. I have no clue how it feels, or
>handles.
>
Good decision. You shouldn't buy a boat before trying it out in the
conditions you expect while using your boat, and loaded with a
"normal" load--if you expect to regularly carry five people, bring
along some friends instead of just riding with the salesman.
H Krause
>
> The bottom line is Harry could list his boat for sale in the paper and he
> mite get a few call asking what it was because nobody ever heard of the
> brand, however if he listed a Bayliner Trophy of the same size he would get
> calls asking for directions to come see the boat.
The bottom line is that last year, with NO ads in the paper, I sold my
previous SeaPro, a two year old model, for very little less than I paid for
it when I bought it new. And I had a couple of interested buyers from the
boats for sale newsgroup, including a fellow who took two separate test
rides but decided to buy something larger. In fact, I was actually
"visiting" a boat dealer friend when a potential customer of his asked about
my boat, which I was in the process of towing to a local ramp. Didn't have
to advertise in the paper.
The fact is that SeaPro is among the top five sales leaders in saltwater
fishing boats between 17 feet and 25 feet. Bayliner's Trophy line ranks
19th. Ergo, SeaPro sells more of its boats than Bayliner sells Trophies. You
may not have noticed many in your area, but that doesn't mean much in terms
of total national sales volume.
You certainly are entitled to your opinion of Bayliner Trophies, and I am
entitled to mine. I've looked at several Trophies closely, and I mean
closely. I've found them wanting in a number of areas of critical importance
to me. I have in the past elucidated my misgivings about the Trophies, and
there is no need to do it again.
I wouldn't own one.
>
> Harry this is an arguement you will never win. The fact is Bayliner gives
> you more boat for the money and has a better resale value than most.
>
> Gary
B.S. on both counts.
> Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>
> H Krause wrote in message <379495B7...@erols.com>...
> >Jeremiah Weed wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> I have a 99' 2052 Trophy with the 135 I/O and love it. Never mind what
> >> trash Harry spews out of his sandwich clamp. After all it comes from a
> guy
> >> that takes a Bay Style Boat miles offshore.
> >
> >20 miles into the Atlantic, to be specific. Do you know what a bay style
> >boat is, by the way?
> >
> > I too looked at the Seaswirl,
> >> Sport-Craft, Pro-Line and lastly a Wellcraft. I found the 2052 Trophy a
> >> much better buy for the $$$$. Besides I have never even heard or seen
> the
> >> Sea-Pro line here in the Great-Lakes.
> >
> >And yet you compare your boat to one? How do you do that?
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Good words cost no more than bad.
H Krause
I'd go further. Most large line dealers provide demos. This Bayliner dealer
must have something about the boat in question he wants to hide.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Ever notice that the AT&T logo looks like the Death Star?
Marty Gras
boat its age. A boat that is taken care of will last a lifetime the problem
is that most people treat their boat the same as they treat their cars and
most cars are never paid for either.
Do you cover your boat??
Gary
Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Richard Daines wrote in message <37963e44...@news.ctol.net>...
Marty Gras
Patrick Buthmann wrote in message
<3795f7f8...@news1.on.sympatico.ca>...
>>> Even in the larger cruisers, up to about 30', I'm amazed at the low
>>> power engines Bayliner specifies as "standard," and therefore I am not
>>> surprised when Bayliner owners report here that their 25 or
>>> 26-something cabin cruiser cannot get out of its own way.
>>
>>Bayliner owners are not reporting that their boats cannot get out of
>>from Bayliner owners are of very satisfactory performance for their
I contend that the problem is with the dealer.
The bayliner dealer that I do business with has their boats powered as
follows
2355 -- 5.7L
2655 -- 5.7L
2855 -- 7.4L
3055 -- twin 5.7
3255 -- twin 5.7 and twin 7.4
as you can see these boats are properly powered and are not ordered by the
dealer with the smallest power plant available.
Jeff
wrote:
>The bottom line is Harry could list his boat for sale in the paper and he
>mite get a few call asking what it was because nobody ever heard of the
>brand, however if he listed a Bayliner Trophy of the same size he would get
>calls asking for directions to come see the boat.
>
>Harry this is an arguement you will never win. The fact is Bayliner gives
>you more boat for the money and has a better resale value than most.
>
They would know what it is where I live. *Many* boats are regional.
Sea Pro is a medium size builder in SC. It follows that they are
found mainly on the east coast. There are at least three, but I think
four Sea Pro dealers within three hours of me, one is 45 minutes away.
I don't see too many walleye fishing boats here in NC. What does that
mean? Probably that there aren't too many walleye fishermen here.
Skipper probably doesn't see too many outboard saltwater fishing boats
in Kansas. He probably doesn't see too many trawlers, either. Same
reason...the boats aren't suited to his area.
What state do you live in?
Marty Gras
H Krause wrote in message <3795B87A...@erols.com>...
>I'd go further. Most large line dealers provide demos. This Bayliner dealer
>must have something about the boat in question he wants to hide.
Harry
Everything is not a conspiracy.
Boat dealers get lots of people thru their doors who would like to own a
boat some day but have no money, they cant just take people for a ride just
because they ask for one.
I suggest you give the dealer the info he requires to qualify you as being
able to afford the purchase.At that time if put down a deposit subject to a
demo within 48 hours If they are unwilling at that time to take you for a
ride then find another dealer.
H Krause
Absurd. Any intelligent dealer or boat salesperson can tell if the customer
is serious or not. There is an entire psychology of buying that anyone
successful in selling big ticket items knows. If the dealer/salesperson
deems you are serious, he can arrange a ride in a demo boat of his facility,
or a demo aboard a good customer's boat or a factory demo. I've probably
taken demo rides on 50 boats in the last few years, and only about half
because I asked. The sales manager at the dealership/marina where I store
our present boat has already asked me--twice--to take demo rides on three
boats in his showroom, a 27' Grady-White with a diesel I/O, a 28' Parker
with a diesel I/0 (hull #1, the one one in the country), and a 25' Parker
with twin 150's. The latter boat belongs to a customer. No one ever asked me
to put a deposit down for a trial ride.
Hell, I once got a demo on hull one of a brand-new Boston Whaler, a boat
that wasn't even in production. I expressed an interest and the dealer
called the factory and the factory rep towed the boat up to the dealership
for me to try.
If a dealer is unwilling to arrange a demo on a boat, there is something
wrong with the boat.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Only God knows all the jumper settings.
Jeff
<hkr...@erols-nospam.com> wrote:
>
>If a dealer is unwilling to arrange a demo on a boat, there is something
>wrong with the boat.
...or the dealer.
Marty Gras
H Krause wrote in message <3795C4B1...@erols.com>...
>Hell, I once got a demo on hull one of a brand-new Boston Whaler, a boat
>that wasn't even in production. I expressed an interest and the dealer
>called the factory and the factory rep towed the boat up to the dealership
>for me to try.
You just made my point you wasted the dealers time and never bought the
boat.
skippe...@my-deja.com
> The fact is that SeaPro is among the top five sales leaders...
> Bayliner ... ranks 19th. Ergo, SeaPro sells more of its boats than
> Bayliner ...
> You certainly are entitled to your opinion of Bayliner ..., and I
> am entitled to mine.
Harry announces that Sea Pro is a worlds sales leader and Bayliner only
ranks 19th. <sigh> Well, he certainly is entitled to his opinion ...,
and we are entitled to know the truth. Bayliner is the world's sales
leader. Sea Pro has relatively insignificant sales.
Harry will never put his Sea Pro to an on-water comparison with a
similiarly priced Bayliner...Never Ever!!! Case closed!
--
Skipper
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
H Krause
Doh! How did I waste the dealer's time? All he had to do was make a phone
call to the factory rep. And even if I did, so what? Most reputable boat
dealers are in business for the long haul, and stay in business by taking
care of the needs of their customers. If you make big ticket purchases
without a trial and without comparing and contrasting similar products, you
are a fool.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Illegal aliens are a problem. Ask any Native American.
Tim Stone
> Good decision. You shouldn't buy a boat before trying it out in the
> conditions you expect while using your boat, and loaded with a
> "normal" load--if you expect to regularly carry five people, bring
> along some friends instead of just riding with the salesman.
Jeff,
What really bothered me was not that they didn't want to show me a "new"
boat on the lot, but that they had available boats in the water that they
wouldn't even use. Also, there is a major S. Calif. show starting today,
and they are the only dealer I talked to who won't have some boats in the
water for demo.
I really don't think this is a boat issue, but rather a dealer issue. The
rep made it clear they sell so many boats they don't need to demo them !
Tim
Patrick Buthmann
>boat its age. A boat that is taken care of will last a lifetime the problem
>is that most people treat their boat the same as they treat their cars and
>most cars are never paid for either.
>
>Do you cover your boat??
Most of the Bayliner Motor Yacht series were excellent boats,
regardless of vintage. Bayliner seemed to do a good job with building
these boats, as several people I've talked to were extremely happy
with their Bayliner.
I've always liked the Bayliner yachts, it's the smaller boats that
have been a problem.
Pat
Tim Stone
My boat search is for one that will be good in Mission Bay, with some
offshore cruising and diving. I'm looking at a Cuddy about 21'. Have you
used yours offshore and what has been your experience ? I'm also looking at
runs from Long Beach to Catalina.
Tim
Patrick Buthmann
>The bayliner dealer that I do business with has their boats powered as
>follows
>
>2355 -- 5.7L
>2655 -- 5.7L
>2855 -- 7.4L
>3055 -- twin 5.7
>3255 -- twin 5.7 and twin 7.4
>as you can see these boats are properly powered and are not ordered by the
>dealer with the smallest power plant available.
You're probably right. But one exception dealer in the bunch does not
a rule make.
I've been to several Bayliner dealer's in the area (we have several
dozen), and generally they stock the entry level boats for each
series.
On the other hand, we had one dealer here shady enough that Bayliner
no longer wanted to do business with them, and took it away!
Needless to say, that's one business I'd never buy a boat from.
BTW, I do really like the 3055 Ciera (Fat bugger though, ain't it?).
I'd want to make sure I got at least twin 350's in it, the reviews
I've read say the twin 5.0's are just a little underpowered.
Being the type of guy I am, I'd probably go for twin 7.4's, since
that's the biggest they go.
For the price though, Donzi has a 30 Ft cabin cruiser with twin 502's
in it; it'll do 60 MPH+ in a full cabin cruiser!
Pat
Marty Gras
Jeff
wrote:
>
>> Good decision. You shouldn't buy a boat before trying it out in the
>> conditions you expect while using your boat, and loaded with a
>> "normal" load--if you expect to regularly carry five people, bring
>> along some friends instead of just riding with the salesman.
>
>Jeff,
>
>What really bothered me was not that they didn't want to show me a "new"
>boat on the lot, but that they had available boats in the water that they
>wouldn't even use. Also, there is a major S. Calif. show starting today,
>and they are the only dealer I talked to who won't have some boats in the
>water for demo.
>
>I really don't think this is a boat issue, but rather a dealer issue. The
>rep made it clear they sell so many boats they don't need to demo them !
>
>Tim
>
>
I would kindly express my disapproval to the MANAGEMENT, and suggest
that they are on the verge of selling either one more boat, or one
less boat, the choice is theirs.
I can't figure out why, if they already had boats in the water, they
wouldn't sea trial one for you. I took a ride in my boat, before I
put money down. In fact, I was never even asked to put money down.
It was like, "Hey, do you want to see for yourself how it rides?" and
the next thing I know, Floyd (the rigger) is waiting for me at the
dock. It's nice to buy from someone on the water!
H Krause
I'd go with the Donzi. Without question.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I'm just a bug on the windshield of life
Marty Gras
Patrick Buthmann wrote in message
on their floor and to blame the manufacturer for the dealers choice is not
fair. I contend that had everyone who had ever purchased an under powered
boat (no matter who the builder is) taken a test ride you would here no
complaints.
I like the 3055 very much our dealer cant get enough to meet demand
Marty Gras
Patrick Buthmann
>is serious or not. There is an entire psychology of buying that anyone
>successful in selling big ticket items knows. If the dealer/salesperson
>deems you are serious, he can arrange a ride in a demo boat of his facility,
>or a demo aboard a good customer's boat or a factory demo. I've probably
>taken demo rides on 50 boats in the last few years, and only about half
>because I asked. The sales manager at the dealership/marina where I store
>our present boat has already asked me--twice--to take demo rides on three
>boats in his showroom, a 27' Grady-White with a diesel I/O, a 28' Parker
>with a diesel I/0 (hull #1, the one one in the country), and a 25' Parker
>with twin 150's. The latter boat belongs to a customer. No one ever asked me
>to put a deposit down for a trial ride.
>
>that wasn't even in production. I expressed an interest and the dealer
>called the factory and the factory rep towed the boat up to the dealership
>for me to try.
>
>wrong with the boat.
Harry, don't expect that your singular experience with boat dealer's
accounts for the policies of boat dealer's across the country,
No boat dealer around here will sea-trial a boat without the paperwork
done, and a deposit down.
This doesn't matter if it's Carver, Chris Craft, Rinker, Bayliner,
Boston Whaler, Sea Ray etc.
I've been to most of the dealers in the area, nobody will discuss
putting a boat in the water until the price is set, and the deposit is
in their hands.
This, unfortunately, makes it difficult to walk away from a deal, due
to them having money in hand and having to play the extreme bad guy
should you not like the boat.
Pat
H Krause
> on their floor and to blame the manufacturer for the dealers choice is not
> fair. I contend that had everyone who had ever purchased an under powered
> boat (no matter who the builder is) taken a test ride you would here no
> complaints.
But you don't have a *clue* about the purshasing arrangements between
Bayliner and its dealers. As a former boat dealer, I know for dead certain
that when a manufacturer has certain models in great demand, it will sell
you those only if you buy a few of some others that aren't selling so well,
and are equipped the way the factory wants.
> Gary
> Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Error opening CLINTON.LIE Cannot recover COUNTRY.USA
H Krause
Then you are living in the wrong place. I've had sea trials from five
dealers in the Jax area on boats I wanted to try. Hell, one dealer took me
along to pick up a new 25' catamaran on which he was having a tee-top and
upper control station installed. I didn't ask for the demo...I was in the
store, he knew me and he asked if I wanted to tag along.
I used to be a boat dealer. I had no problems arranging demos for serious
customers.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi, I'm a tagline. When I grow up I'm gonna be a novel!
fr...@home.com
skippe...@my-deja.com wrote:
Skipperontheroad, now that's a fitting title! Would that be a Winnebago?
>
> Harry announces that Sea Pro is a worlds sales leader and Bayliner
only
> ranks 19th. <sigh> Well, he certainly is entitled to his opinion ...,
> and we are entitled to know the truth. Bayliner is the world's sales
> leader. Sea Pro has relatively insignificant sales.
Comparing apples to oranges again?? Many of the local boat dealers
here have taken on salt water fishing boats, since this seems to be a
growing market segment. The local Maxum dealer was excited to get, and
seems to be doing quite well with the SeaPro line. Their tag line is
"Buy your second boat 1st", and they stress the quality/safety features
built into the boat that are important to fishermen (not to you).
They( SeaPro) are indeed gaining market share here at least,
doubtful in Kansas where your experience is based.
So how long before you are near water Skipperontheroad? When was
the last time your boat touched salt water?
--
Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise!
www.sdboats.com
MuffinMan
>anemic engine.
>
>Harry Krause
I will make sure I don't get one that is underpowered.
SA
**Deck - This is what your spouse will do to you after discovering how
much money you have spent on the boat without first obtaining
permission**
Jeff
>H Krause wrote:
>
>> The fact is that SeaPro is among the top five sales leaders...
>> Bayliner ... ranks 19th. Ergo, SeaPro sells more of its boats than
>> Bayliner ...
>
>> You certainly are entitled to your opinion of Bayliner ..., and I
>> am entitled to mine.
>
>Harry announces that Sea Pro is a worlds sales leader and Bayliner only
>ranks 19th. <sigh> Well, he certainly is entitled to his opinion ...,
>and we are entitled to know the truth. Bayliner is the world's sales
>leader. Sea Pro has relatively insignificant sales.
>
>Harry will never put his Sea Pro to an on-water comparison with a
>similiarly priced Bayliner...Never Ever!!! Case closed!
>
>--
>Skipper
You really are a slimebag, Skipper. Here is what Harry said, and you
creatively edited out the specifications of his statement:
"The fact is that SeaPro is among the top five sales leaders in
saltwater fishing boats between 17 feet and 25 feet. Bayliner's Trophy
line ranks 19th. Ergo, SeaPro sells more of its boats than Bayliner
sells Trophies."
You tried to skipperize it into a blanket statement about total
Bayliner sales. Nice try. How's the search for monstrous motor
yachts in Kansas going?
H Krause
>
> H Krause wrote:
>
> > The fact is that SeaPro is among the top five sales leaders...
> > Bayliner ... ranks 19th. Ergo, SeaPro sells more of its boats than
> > Bayliner ...
>
> > You certainly are entitled to your opinion of Bayliner ..., and I
> > am entitled to mine.
>
> Harry announces that Sea Pro is a worlds sales leader and Bayliner only
> ranks 19th. <sigh> Well, he certainly is entitled to his opinion ...,
> and we are entitled to know the truth. Bayliner is the world's sales
> leader. Sea Pro has relatively insignificant sales.
Nice try, Skip, but, as usual, you fooled around with the words I posted.
The original statement:
"The fact is that SeaPro is among the top five sales leaders in saltwater
fishing boats between 17 feet and 25 feet. Bayliner's Trophy line ranks
19th. Ergo, SeaPro sells more of its boats than Bayliner sells Trophies. You
may not have noticed many in your area, but that doesn't mean much in terms
of total national sales volume."
Notice the phrase "saltwater fishing boats between 17 feet and 25 feet." In
that category, Bayliner's Trophy line ranks 19th, and Sea Pro is in the top
five. Your removing that phrase is a lame attempt to obfuscate.
> Harry will never put his Sea Pro to an on-water comparison with a
> similiarly priced Bayliner...Never Ever!!! Case closed!
Gee, Skip. I offered to meet you and your boat at the Cape Hatteras national
seashore and run through some inlets with you. Nothing in your local Kansas
boating area compares, and compared to the daily condition of the inlets at
Hatteras, your Gulf of California is for wussies. Further, it was a much
shorter distance for you to drive than the 4000 mile trailering trip you
wanted me to take.
You were offered the chance to put up or shut up. You did neither.
We're all waiting for your interstate highway adventures with your 56'
trawler, or whatever the hell Skippymobile you are considering.
> --
> Skipper
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I know a good tagline when I steal one.
Patrick Buthmann
>>a rule make.
>>
>>I've been to several Bayliner dealer's in the area (we have several
>>dozen), and generally they stock the entry level boats for each
>>series.
>>
>>On the other hand, we had one dealer here shady enough that Bayliner
>>no longer wanted to do business with them, and took it away!
>>
>>Needless to say, that's one business I'd never buy a boat from.
>>
>>BTW, I do really like the 3055 Ciera (Fat bugger though, ain't it?).
>>
>>I'd want to make sure I got at least twin 350's in it, the reviews
>>I've read say the twin 5.0's are just a little underpowered.
>>
>>Being the type of guy I am, I'd probably go for twin 7.4's, since
>>that's the biggest they go.
>>
>>For the price though, Donzi has a 30 Ft cabin cruiser with twin 502's
>>in it; it'll do 60 MPH+ in a full cabin cruiser!
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
>
I don't remember off-hand. It was a little more than the general
price range of 30 ft cabin cruisers. I'll look it up this afternoon,
when I'm down on the boat.
I know it was more than the 3055, but that was equipped with 5.0's.
Most of the boats they compared it two had twin 350's or 454's.
I keep all my boating mags and reviews down where I can read them in
the most peace and quiet.
Pat
Tim Stone
> that they are on the verge of selling either one more boat, or one
> less boat, the choice is theirs.
The management policy was "put down a deposit, sign ALL the paperwork, and
then when we deliver the boat, you can decline at that time if the shakedown
trip is not to your satisfaction.
Every other dealer wants "qualified" buyers before they put a boat in the
water. I have no problem with that.
>
> I can't figure out why, if they already had boats in the water, they
> wouldn't sea trial one for you.
The sales rep indicated that she owned the same boat we were looking at ...
so you would have thought that she would offer a ride. However, the lot was
not "on the water" and I'm sure she figured she would stay on the lot and
find someone who would buy without a trial. ( An appointment for a
non-working time would have been fine ).
Tim
Patrick Buthmann
>dealers in the Jax area on boats I wanted to try. Hell, one dealer took me
>along to pick up a new 25' catamaran on which he was having a tee-top and
>upper control station installed. I didn't ask for the demo...I was in the
>store, he knew me and he asked if I wanted to tag along.
Sorry about that; I didn't realize I was living in the wrong place.
Maybe you should come up here, and convince the dealer's to give you
sea-trials!
Come on Harry, it has nothing to do with the place anybody lives in.
It's the dealer's themselves that determine how it's done. I'm not
about to move to Jacksonville (sorry, but it's a dump!) just so I can
sea-trial my new boat before I have to put a deposit down on it.
I'm sure you'll find plenty of dealer's around that don't offer
sea-trials without deposits and paperwork done.
It's also a lot different if you personally know the dealer's. I
happen to know three dealer's in the area, and yes, they let me
sea-trial boats that are already in the water. Two of whom are
friends of mine, and two of whom I've bought boats from.
I just happened to know them before I moved here though, and that
helped. However, boat dealer's I don't know won't sea-trial anything
without a deposit. Even boat dealer's I know, and have dealt with in
the past, won't sea-trial without deposit because it's policy.
Next time I'm in Jacksonville, I'll come down and attempt to sea-trial
a boat from some dealer, and we'll see how far I get without putting a
deposit down.
Pat
H Krause
>
> >Then you are living in the wrong place. I've had sea trials from five
> >dealers in the Jax area on boats I wanted to try. Hell, one dealer took me
> >along to pick up a new 25' catamaran on which he was having a tee-top and
> >upper control station installed. I didn't ask for the demo...I was in the
> >store, he knew me and he asked if I wanted to tag along.
>
> Sorry about that; I didn't realize I was living in the wrong place.
> Maybe you should come up here, and convince the dealer's to give you
> sea-trials!
I've got three sea trials pending from a dealer on the Chesapeake Bay.
You're obviously living in the wrong place.
> Come on Harry, it has nothing to do with the place anybody lives in.
> It's the dealer's themselves that determine how it's done. I'm not
> about to move to Jacksonville (sorry, but it's a dump!) just so I can
> sea-trial my new boat before I have to put a deposit down on it.
NE Florida is a great place to live if you like to fish year around. Where
we live, it is quite pleasant.
>
--
Harry Krause
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It's not nice to put the moderator in your 'twit' list.
H Krause
>
> In article <7n4pvt$vjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> skippe...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Skipperontheroad, now that's a fitting title! Would that be a Winnebago?
A Winnebago would be too upscale for Skippy. He bought a Fly-By-Night
Camper, a much better value.
>
> >
> > Harry announces that Sea Pro is a worlds sales leader and Bayliner
> only
> > ranks 19th. <sigh> Well, he certainly is entitled to his opinion ...,
> > and we are entitled to know the truth. Bayliner is the world's sales
> > leader. Sea Pro has relatively insignificant sales.
>
> Comparing apples to oranges again?? Many of the local boat dealers
> here have taken on salt water fishing boats, since this seems to be a
> growing market segment. The local Maxum dealer was excited to get, and
> seems to be doing quite well with the SeaPro line. Their tag line is
> "Buy your second boat 1st", and they stress the quality/safety features
> built into the boat that are important to fishermen (not to you).
>
> They( SeaPro) are indeed gaining market share here at least,
> doubtful in Kansas where your experience is based.
>
> So how long before you are near water Skipperontheroad? When was
> the last time your boat touched salt water?
>
> --
> Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise!
> www.sdboats.com
>
> e-mail:fr...@home.com
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Bread making is finger painting for adults.
Patrick Buthmann
>> >dealers in the Jax area on boats I wanted to try. Hell, one dealer took me
>> >along to pick up a new 25' catamaran on which he was having a tee-top and
>> >upper control station installed. I didn't ask for the demo...I was in the
>> >store, he knew me and he asked if I wanted to tag along.
>>
>> Sorry about that; I didn't realize I was living in the wrong place.
>> Maybe you should come up here, and convince the dealer's to give you
>> sea-trials!
>
>I've got three sea trials pending from a dealer on the Chesapeake Bay.
>You're obviously living in the wrong place.
No, the dealer's here have their policy, and that's it. Nothing you,
I nor anyone else can do about it.
Chesapeake Bay area is quite nice though, I was offered the
opportunity to move to Annapolis earlier this year. I gave that some
serious consideration.
I spent most of May in Jacksonville and Pensacola. Pensacola wasn't
bad, but I found Jax to be a real dump. If I were to go south, it may
as well be all the way to Tampa, which I found extremely nice.
>NE Florida is a great place to live if you like to fish year around. Where
>we live, it is quite pleasant.
I don't do a lot of fishing, though I keep meaning to get started.
Hard to troll with a 27ft speed-boat....
Pat
H Krause
There are parts of Jax that are very nice and parts that are indeed a dump.
We live south of Jax.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
But soft, what bird through yonder window breaks?
Steven Shelikoff
[...]
> There are parts of Jax that are very nice and parts that are indeed a dump.
> We live south of Jax.
Anywhere near Orange Park? That's where I used to stay when I was
working out of Jax NAS and/or Cecil Field. My father's cousins live in
East Mandarin. Oh, wait, you're on A1A. Nevermind.
Steve
--
/ / /
\ \ \ mailto:shel...@averstar.com
/ / /
H Krause
I know OP pretty well, and, in fact, have a retired Navy friend who lives
there, not too far from Cecil Field. Which is being shut down, by the way.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I can be a great disturbance in the Force....
H Krause
>
> n hkr...@erols-nospam.com wrote:
>
> >NE Florida is a great place to live if you like to fish year around. Where
> >we live, it is quite pleasant.
>
>
> --
> Joe Mac
Practice makes perfect.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
A circuit protected by a fast acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing
first.
Steven Shelikoff
>
> Steven Shelikoff wrote:
> >
> > H Krause wrote:
> > [...]
> > > There are parts of Jax that are very nice and parts that are indeed a dump.
> > > We live south of Jax.
> >
> > Anywhere near Orange Park? That's where I used to stay when I was
> > working out of Jax NAS and/or Cecil Field. My father's cousins live in
> > East Mandarin. Oh, wait, you're on A1A. Nevermind.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > --
> > / / /
> > \ \ \ mailto:shel...@averstar.com
> > / / /
>
> I know OP pretty well, and, in fact, have a retired Navy friend who lives
> there, not too far from Cecil Field. Which is being shut down, by the way.
Yeah, I heard. That's ok. I only went there to work on the ASW aspects
of the S-3s that were based there. They are taking the ASW mission away
from the S-3, so I have no reason to go there anymore even if it was
staying open. The P-3s at Jax are still my concern though.
H Krause
Ah, yes, the neverending tree-top flights of the P3's....
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Books are better. No commercial interruptions.
Steven Shelikoff
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H Krause wrote:
[...]
> Ah, yes, the neverending tree-top flights of the P3's....
....sure are fun.:) But for me, it's usually wave-top flights and not
tree-top flights.
Jeff
wrote:
>> I would kindly express my disapproval to the MANAGEMENT, and suggest
>> that they are on the verge of selling either one more boat, or one
>> less boat, the choice is theirs.
>
>The management policy was "put down a deposit, sign ALL the paperwork, and
>then when we deliver the boat, you can decline at that time if the shakedown
>trip is not to your satisfaction.
>
>Every other dealer wants "qualified" buyers before they put a boat in the
>water. I have no problem with that.
>
I'd go elsewhere.
>
>The sales rep indicated that she owned the same boat we were looking at ...
>so you would have thought that she would offer a ride. However, the lot was
>not "on the water" and I'm sure she figured she would stay on the lot and
>find someone who would buy without a trial. ( An appointment for a
>non-working time would have been fine ).
>
If she has the same boat, it is suspicious that she wouldn't want to
take you for a ride. She does work on commission, doesn't she?